WARNING MIKE BICKLE AT HOUSE OF PRAYER IS A HUGE CULT LEADER

For more on Mike Bickle and IHOP (formerly called the KANSAS CITY PROPHETS/FELLOWSHIP), go to these sites:

http://www.christiandoctrine.net/doc...ophets_web.htm

http://www.tribwatch.com/toronto.htm

http://wordpress.com/tag/mike-bickle/feed/

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b56.html

etc. etc. etc.

I'm here to tell u that MIKE BICKLE is a LIAR and IHOP ACTUALLY IS A CULT. I'd been attending their school, FSM (FORERUNNER SCHOOL OF MINISTRY) for almost two years, taking everything in, journaling everything, and TESTING everything against scripture. There are so many false doctrines taught there, its not even funny. For example:
1. They uphold teachings of Mystics and false prophets.
2. They teach/practice DELIVERANCE for/on CHRISTIANS frequently.
3. I've seen "CHRISTIANS" manifest demons more times than i can count.
4. I've seen/they teach Odd, unbiblical manifestations that they claim are from the "Holy Spirit."
5. They twist scriptures and take them out of context to fit their wacked-out doctrines and have excuses for everything. The most dangerous being, "The Holy Spirit loves to offend the mind, that's how you know its from God!"
6. Generational curses being the cause of habitual sin and sickness in Born-again Christians (they blame demons for literally everything!)
7. Completely unbiblical veiw/practice of "prophesy" which works much more like spiritist, psychic, medium stuff and not actual prophesy. What's worse is Mike Bickle has been proven to fabricate numerous "prophesies" and teaches that its OKAY to falsly prophesy.
8. Etc

But this isn't even why I say it is a cult! (YEAH, IT ACTUALLY GETS WORSE!!!)
As I previously stated, I was a student at the FSM, until a series of events left me in a small office with 3 people. At this pointm I was aware of false prophesies, doctrines, and teachings. I began to warn people, adamently, to "TEST EVERYTHING! Don't believe anything unless u see it, IN CONTEXT, in the Bible. Just because something is real, doesn't mean its from God..." So, leadership obviously got word that I'd been doing this and I was brought into an office.
In this office, they gave me a laundry list of things wrong with me (mostly from my past), and said that I have a problem with authority. Then they began to use smooth words to try and twist the situation and manipulate me by saying, "It's not your fault, you just need help. But we are for you! We love you! And we are going to help you." This is when they proceeded to tell me that I needed healing and deliverance from the authority issues which stem from having a bad relationship with my dad (which isnt even true). So, in order to recieve this "healing and deliverance" they were going to give me a portion of my tuition money back (i had only been to 4 days of school) and SEND ME AWAY to Toronto, where the Toronto blessing was. They smoothly threatened me not to tell my parents (without them being there) and to recieve this news with "a humble heart" so as not to "speak evil of their authority" to anyone. If this isn't CULT action, then I sure as heck dunno what is!

Mind you, I had just bought a house that was $1100/mo in rent, so that I could help ihop people in need. I had been mentoring a few of my roomies who were brand new christians and came outta bad living situiations. So THEN, after ALL OF THAT nonsense, they call my roommates into their office, completely slander me, tell them to wait until I am gone, move out of my house, and then send me an email to let me know they've left. They commanded that their meeting be completely confidential from everyone.

Luckily for me, one of my roommates is not stupid. So she told me everything. But my other roommates wont even look at me. IHOP completely screwed me over! Sick isn't it?!?!?!

WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T GO TO IHOP!!! IT IS THE BIGGEST CULT SINCE MORMONISM AND ITS TAKING OVER!!!!!!!!!

I am glad you started this. We have been having our own discussion over on this thread. Mike Bickle and Lou Engle are joined at the hip. Engle does the events like the Call and the Cause and Bickle supplies the IHOP kids. At this section start reading about The Call on 7-7-7 and then move on to The Cause. The events revolve around the prophecies of Bob Jones.

Thanks for talking about IHOP! and creating this

Oh, believe me, I know!!!! Lou Engle and his wife just moved to kansas city (IHOP). So Mike and Lou are now literally joined. Its scary!

Thanks exihoper, I have taken an interest in these weirdos over the summer, and it is nice to know that my feelings were right about these guys. I was formerly with Maranatha, a campus ministry back in the 70's and 80's. It seems like Sunday School compared to your experience.

One question...the body rocking dude...Engle? Did you see young people take on his mannerisms? I have noticed what I thought was the same body rocking among some of the young males on some of the You Tube vids.

Also, what is the demographic of the kids? Most of the Maranatha kids were from stable families, with at least enough money to send them to college. Are the kids like this? Or the other end of the spectrum, runaways? Or something in between?

Thanks and welcome to fnet.

exihoper: I have some questions, for which I hope you can give some further explanation.

#1 You said, "They uphold teachings of mystics and false prophets." Would you please share who you believe to be a false prophet(s), and please explain why you believe such prophet(s) to be false - ??? Same for someone who is a "mystic" - ???

#2 You said, "They teach and practice deliverance for and on Christians frequently." Why is this a sign that IHOP is a cult? Did you know that ALL Christians NEED deliverance???

#3 You said, "I've seen Christians manifest demons." OK, why is this a sign of a cult? Did you know that Christians CAN manifest demons, because while demons CANNOT POSSESS a Christian, demons can certainly OPPRESS a Christian, for which the Christian would need deliverance, right???

#4 You mentioned "unbiblical manifestations" that the leaders claim are from the Holy Spirit. What makes these manifestations unbiblical??? Can you share some examples please???

#5 You said, "They twist scriptures and take them out of context to fit their wacked-out doctrines and have excuses for everything. The most dangerous being, 'The Holy Spirit loves to offend the mind, that's how you know its from God!'" How do they twist Scriptures and take them out of context? What doctrines do they have that are "wacked-out" - ? What kind of excuses do they make specifically? Why is the latter statement that they made about the Holy Spirit such a "dangerous" statement? Why do you disagree with it - ???

#6 Did you know that a generational curse can exist in families and be the cause for sin??? Did you know there is Scripture support for that???

#7 You said, "Completely unbiblical veiw/practice of "prophesy" which works much more like spiritist, psychic, medium stuff and not actual prophesy. What's worse is Mike Bickle has been proven to fabricate numerous "prophesies" and teaches that its OKAY to falsly prophesy." OK, do you have any proof of this stuff - ???

#8 Why do you think your office meeting was "cult action" - ??? Do not cults actually try to keep its "members" rather than sending them away to another city, e.g. Toronto - ???

Anyways, exihop, if you could answer those questions for all of us, and provide further explanation please, then I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.

Hey, JBkrems, what is your relationship to this group?

Bluewater: What do you mean?

First to answer the questions of "matt_hatter"

Yes, the people at IHOP take on the charactaristics of Engle. When I first started going there I didn't know what was going on. Not everyone does it, but there is a joke going around... something like, "You know you're an IHOPer, if you're rocking back and forth at a resteraunt..." So, the short answer is: absolutely.

To answer your second question about the demographic. 80-90% of people here left their family in one way or another to come out here. The story usually goes, "I left my family and am living off support because my parents/church thinks this place is a cult." Then the kids eventualy get their family to come out, and the family moves to KC, or frequents IHOP, and they're one big happy family. Most people I knew were ex-addicts, abused, not very well-off, etc. There were VERY few people that weren't already "down and out" in some way, or just being rebellious. But most of those "normal" people were already part of the charismatic church, so it wasn't a huge difference for them.

I hope that answers your question. Thanks for the welcome.

JBK came from the general location of IHOP and has a close friend in IHOP and knows another guy by the last name of Nesbit who was deeply involved with the program called River Flush where people linked to Peter Wagner (the head of the New Apostolic Roundtable?) sent out folks to flush out demons from the Mississippi river system and thus break the power of principalities from the second heavens over the rivers which are a power source and communication network for the demonic. Their trying to save America. River Flush was designed to prepare the way for the Lou Engle/Bickle The Call event on 7-7-7 in Nashville fulfilling Bob Jones prophecies, this event is suppose to turn the nation back to Jesus, then after that there was The Cause an event where Engle took IHOP kids on busses called the Red Ryders out of Nashville to SF to an event called Gods Summer of Love on 8-11-07. This whole thing has Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, Cindy Jacobs, Leonard Jones involved with it.

Look this will take all day bluewater2 but lets just say about JBK, he knows people.

At the summer of love event in SF on 8-11-07, there was a kid standing in the middle of a round paint splattered peace symbol (about 9 feet across) bobbing like Lou Engle.

How HUGE is this guy Mike Bickle? What does he weigh? How tall is he? Does he take steroids? Is he a roid head? Former pro wrestler or football player? I'll bet he gained his hugeness from continual eating at one of them International House Of Pancakes. That'll do it every time!

Now to answer "JBKrems"

First, I want to apologize for not initially giving much more detail in my first post. I didn't have too much time, and was only allowed a certain amount of words. That being said, I'm going to have to answer your questions using multiple posts, so please be patient with me.

To answer your first question, the part about the mystics:

#1 "Would you please share who you believe to be a false prophet(s), and please explain why you believe such prophet(s) to be false - ??? Same for someone who is a "mystic" - ???"

Okay, first off, NOT ALL MYSTICS are terrible. I want to make that clear because there are, in fact, many good things to learn from their lifestyles. However, much of what some mystics would practice were not very good. As far as my understanding goes, they upheld all of it, not just the good stuff.

.......

Now to answer "JBKrems"

First, I want to apologize for not initially giving much more detail in my first post. I didn't have too much time, and was only allowed a certain amount of words. That being said, I'm going to have to answer your questions using multiple posts, so please be patient with me.

To answer your first question, the part about the mystics:

#1 "Would you please share who you believe to be a false prophet(s), and please explain why you believe such prophet(s) to be false - ??? Same for someone who is a "mystic" - ???"

Okay, first off, NOT ALL MYSTICS are terrible. I want to make that clear because there are, in fact, many good things to learn from their lifestyles. However, much of what some mystics would practice were not very good. As far as my understanding goes, they upheld all of it, not just the good stuff.

we had an entire class devoted to it, called "mystical life of communion"

.......

Exihoper: Yes, I'll be patient with you. Could you in a future post define what you mean by "mystic" and what you mean by "false prophet." Examples or illustration would be nice to support your definition, please. Thanks.

#1 False prophets:
a) William Branham: on top of false prophet, does NOT believe in the trinity & even says its from satan; Said that HE IS Elijah the prophet; had an "angel" for a guide; said Jesus was a created being who, on the day of pentecost changed Himself from 'son of man' to 'son of God'; does NOT believe in hell; says the Word of God was given in 3 forms: the zodiac, the Egyptian pyramids, & the written scripture; etc. The guy was flat-out demonic.
b) Paul Cain: besides false prophet, he followed Branham, even saying hes 'the greatest prophet ever to live'; mediumistic; uses occultic/spiritist signs/practices; upholds/teaches "new breed, new seed", "manifest sons of God", & "Latter rain"; had an "angel" for a guide; disembodied/spiritistic visitations; followed Asceticism; said "Jesus" forbid him to marry/be celebate, also says 'Jesus' laid hands on him, 'perminantly removing all sexual desire' & later became a homosexual and drunkard; a plethora of lies involving signs and wonders; etc
c) Bob Jones: besides false prophet & liar; follows/upholds Branham; many spiritist/witchcraft/omens etc; occult dreams/visions; was in a mental institution where he was 'visited by demons' regularly; upheld/taught "manifest sons of God", "Latter Rains", & "new breed, new seed"; claims, while in mental institution, 'Jesus' came & told him to get his mind back he must either kill OR forgive 12 people; Was removed from Vineyard because he told women to undress in his office to stand "naked before the Lord" in order to receive a word; etc
d) Rick Joyner: false prophet; teaches MSG & LT; works with Jones; books full of false doctrine; etc

the list goes on. Bickle believes Branham and Cain were the greatest prophets ever. Mike still teaches that theyre 99% acurate and essential to the existance of Ihop. In fact, every student is required to listen to the "prophetic history" tapes, proving his support for it. click on the urls in my 1st post, youll find a plethora of false prophecy, false fulfillments, & flat-out lies going on between Mike & the others. For example, Mike STILL teaches (even last week) this:

In 1983 Bob Jones 'prophesied' that there'd be 3 months of drought. Mike Bickle said:
"Kansas City was known as the bread-basket of the world; it was the centre of grain farming, fanning out to a radius of five hundred miles. For the whole of June there was no rain! IT was terrible! For the whole of July there was no rain! It was terrible! No rain during the first week of August or the second or the third. It was terrible! Bob Jones said that the Lord had told him it would come on 23rd August. We had all been poised since early dawn that day, but by 1pm there was still no rain. By 6 o'clock we were just resigned to wait another day when suddenly it began. And did it rain? It poured! No man could have manipulated that. It just had to be God!"

However, Pastor Ernest Gruen said there was no drought! Even more importantly, The U.S. National Weather Bureau confirms that 7 inches of rain fell on Kansas City in June 1983. It rained on 12 out of thirty days - almost 1/2 the month! On just one of those days, the rainfall was 7x the rainfall on 23rd August! So, the prophecy was a lie and a fake. What is far worse, is that Bickle afterward (that is, after knowing what really happened, & after knowing the prophecy to be false) claimed it to be true

I hope my answer was thorough enuf 4u! I can go on and on....

JBK: on to Q #2#2 You said, "They teach and practice deliverance for and on Christians frequently." Why is this a sign that IHOP is a cult? Did you know that ALL Christians NEED deliverance???

A: When I say “Deliverance” I mean the casting out of demons. This is a completely unbiblical practice and unnecessary. For further, clear explanation strait out of the Word, PLEASE read here: http://www.naminggrace.org/id62.htm

#3 #3 You said, "I've seen Christians manifest demons." OK, why is this a sign of a cult? Did you know that Christians CAN manifest demons, because while demons CANNOT POSSESS a Christian, demons can certainly OPPRESS a Christian, for which the Christian would need deliverance, right???


A: Wrong, actually. By the charasmatic (and unbiblical, mind you) veiw of "oppression" this means that demonic can NOT possess a christian's spirit. Some say, they CAN possess your soul/body, others say they just influence and afflict you.

The former is rediculous. Its like saying that Satan can posses Jesus and Holy Spirit, but not the Father. God is one. Our body, soul, spirit is US, which is God's if you are a real christian. "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" right?! Otherwise, what the heck did Jesus even die for?

Furthermore, Christians should be able to have full control of their body and functions. If they are manifesting demons, then they are possessed. There is NO other way to look at it.

In fact, lets play dictionary:
Oppression: the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, anxiety, etc.
Possession: To gain or exert influence or control over; dominate; To control or maintain (one's nature) in a particular condition; the act of having and controlling property; the trait of resolutely controlling your own behavior; control over oneself, one's mind, etc

I think that in itself is very clear. Futhermore, there are ZERO biblical teachings and/or accounts of Born-again Christians being possessed. And "Oppression" is neither a word in scripture or an idea taught. EVER.

Even if deliverance was real, I would argue that either they aren't really a christian, or they are involved in witchcraft, because it simply isnt biblical. Just because something is real, doesnt mean its from God. we must test ALL things by the WORD OF GOD.

this test fails miserably

Q #4 You mentioned "unbiblical manifestations" that the leaders claim are from the Holy Spirit. What makes these manifestations unbiblical??? Can you share some examples please???

A: If you are going to argue that these manifestations are from Holy Spirit, I REQUIRE you give me scripture references for EACH one.

The manifestations are as follows:
1) "holy laughter" (began in toronto in 1970's)
2) "Slain in the spirit" (widely twisted and taken out of context from scipture)
3) Animal sounds. (this is just rediculous)
4) Burning sensation (again not in bible)
5) Compulsory movements
6) Seizuring on floor (demonic)
7) Trembling and shaking
8) Extra-biblical revelation
9) People acting like giving birth
10) Loud Moaning/screaming (sounds painful)
11) Orgasms (Not frequent, but has been reported)
12) etc etc etc

First of all, if its from God it would be in the Bible and it would bring you closer to Jesus in love for God and your neighbor. These freaked me out and made me feel "less than" or like God didn't love me as much. But its not from God because its neither Biblical, nor does God operate like this.

JESUS was more filled with the Spirit than any human being ever has been or will be. He never did any of these things. Not even close. Same with the Apostles of that day. Not even on the day of Pentecost (where Holy Spirit was poured out completely) did any of these happen. ONLY the gift of tongues manifested. No rolling around, no extra-biblical visions, no barking, no seizures, nothing.

Also, there have been many people in both the OT and NT who have encountered God. NONE of them experienced any of these crazy wacked-out things. Even ISAIAH who experienced the RAW PRESANCE of GOD, did nothing but get on His face and declare his impurity. He was anything but prideful in the presance of God. Isaiah and every other Biblical character must not of had a great enough "annointing" eh? Whatever....

once again, please read HERE: http://www.inplainsite.org/html/kundalini.html

oh PS. none of these "manifestations" even began until the 1970's. I think that says something about them...


PLEASE read this: http://www.inplainsite.org/html/kundalini.html

PPS: SCRIPTURE MUST INTERPRET EXPERIENCE; EXPERIENCE CANNOT INTERPRET SCRIPTURE.

Q #5 You said, "They twist scriptures and take them out of context to fit their wacked-out doctrines and have excuses for everything. The most dangerous being, 'The Holy Spirit loves to offend the mind, that's how you know its from God!'" How do they twist Scriptures and take them out of context? What doctrines do they have that are "wacked-out" - ? What kind of excuses do they make specifically? Why is the latter statement that they made about the Holy Spirit such a "dangerous" statement? Why do you disagree with it - ???

A. This will literally take me all day long. Let me see if I can find just one example to prove the hundreds more.... Ok, This example is far less severe than others I've seen, but for sake of time I'm taking this example off of one of his recent sermons (picked at random).

Example: Positive Trends, People and Events in the End Times - Bickle’s teaching notes from February 17, 2007.

I will only address (I.) of Bickle’s outline. He quotes Joel 2:11 and Malachi 4:5, both of which refer to the “great” and “terrible” (or “dreadful”, or “awesome” - depending on the translation) Day of the Lord.

The LORD thunders
at the head of his army;
his forces are beyond number,
and mighty are those who obey his command.
The day of the LORD is great;
it is dreadful.
Who can endure it?

Joel 2:11 (NIV)

See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes. He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse.

Malachi 4:5-6 (NIV)


Now, it seems to me that your average fifth-grader would be able to deduce from these kinds of passages that the words “great” and “dreadful” are used in conjunction to emphasize the terrible gravity of the Day of the Lord. That they are expressing the same thing (even check out the Hebrew on this one if you like); namely, that the Day of the Lord will be an awesome (not synonymous with “cool”, but that which inspires admiration and wonder and fear) and dreadful display of God’s power and wrath against His enemies.

But, no. Bickle teaches that these two words signify a dichotomous blessing/curse for those living at the end of this age - believers will be blessed, while sinners will be cursed.

<!--[if>The 2-fold nature of the day of the Lord is seen in the great blessing it releases for those who call on Jesus and it is terrible in judgment for those who refuse Him.

Mike Bickle (I., C.)

As for why "Holy spirit loves to offend the mind, this is how you know it's God" is dangerous... ever hear of "passive mind"?? They are saying this because (EXCUSE) they cant support their manifestations (etc) with scripture, so they tell you to check your mind out at the door and use your heart (ie: emotions, feelings, etc). This is VERY DANGEROUS because its not only unbiblical, but it creates "passive mind." which completely explains their demonic manifestations and need for deliverance (because passive mind is grounds for possession. Read about it), which is a whole other issue in it of itself. Its very scary even. On top of that, this means you can no longer test scripture, but have to go off of emotion, feeling, and experience. This is actually WARNED about in the Bible. In other words, the bible teaches against it, not for it.