DEPOSITIONS from the ole Days

[wilma]

A friend recently shared some of their mountain of depositions with me. I thought it would be good to share some of the excerpts with everyone. It gives some perspective from people that were in the "inner circle". Here goes........

This is from a transcript dated 8/21/80
Kathy: There’s like an overseer type situation…but Susie’s dropped the word overseer. But there’s like somebody in charge. When I was there, I was in charge of the restaurant, made sure all the girls were on time, and did what they were supposed to, if they didn’t, I had it in the reports every night.

Don: She (Kathy) was third in charge. There’s really no third in charge. But, she was as high as you can get in the hierarchy.

Kathy: Probably the most hated too. Cause, I had to do all the dirty work. What Susie didn’t want to do, I had to do. Now, that I’ve left, she’s made it look like I just did it on my own rather than instructions from her. But, like California, before we left, those people hadn’t seen Tony and Sue in like 5 years. This tells you how strong the hold is on them. They hadn’t seen them in 5 years. Tony and Sue would call, they had an intercom system set up in the main sanctuary, …Tony and Sue would call maybe once every two to three weeks and maybe uplift them. Whatever Susie felt like. If maybe nothing happened, maybe rebuke them. She held those peoples minds. We used to go over there and I’m telling you it was such a depressing place. And people on the outside don’t understand...see how. But, see, you don’t go anywhere. Your day is completely scheduled. You wake up. You get on a certain vehicle, you go up to the kitchen, you peel potatoes all day long or you sort vegetables. You don’t think. There’s Bible records being played all the time or else Tony and Sue’s messages are being played. You never think. And, if anything comes in your mind contrary to what you’ve been told you’re taught to come against it. Do not receive it. It’s of the devil. It’s just like a bunch of zombies walking around. It really is.

GA (interviewer): It’s kinda like beyond my comprehension.

Kathy: We look back now and say, how could we have gotten mixed up in something like that? It’s not where like overnight they say, you’re gonna do this. It’s a process. You’re hooked on it before you know you’re hooked. (pg 34)

[wilma]

All the sisters knew that Kathy was Susie's righthand, and Kathy rode herd on all of us. It's true that after she and Don left, Susie tried to make her the scapegoat. Tried to make it out like Kathy was the oppressor, not Susie (even then I knew better, deep down).

This next excerpt is pretty telling. Kathy obviously knew what was making them tick. Unfortunately, her warning about Tony Alamo has come to pass.

Kathy: See, it’s not so much the money with them. They thrive on power. They need that as bad as they need the money. I don’t really think…in fact, they left California but they never left control of it. They still control it by phone. Susie got to the point…well, just since the lawsuits, she’s afraid of that too….but she was also tired of the kids. And she talks about them like dirt now. But, it’s the power they need…their ego. And if Susie died, Tony would hold on to that place, because Tony is an ego maniac. And that place would sour over…I mean, that is the only thing…that would turn into a Jim Jones town overnight once Susie left. Susie as far as promiscuity, holds everything in check. But Tony is a sicko anyway, but he hates women and he’s got some kinda hang-up about that from his childhood. He’d be a nut. I’ve always been afraid of him.

anyone want to hear more??

[anonymous2]

uh, yeah ;)

[cha_cha]

Yes, please! More!

[cha_cha]

Yes, please! More!

[wilma]

Here's more excerpts from 8/21/80 transcript.......
Kathy: but, you live in mortal fear. The whole family separates, you don’t see your children, your children go in a nursery school, someone else takes care of them from morning till night. If you are one of the more responsible people, you don’t have any family life. It’s discouraged. The whole thing is set up where you depend on Tony and Sue for everything, for their thinking, for your livelihood, you don’t trust your husband or wife.
Kathy: If he (Don) were to do anything, I would go report him to the pastor and the pastor would—see there’s no trust—all trust is torn down between any couples or anything there.

GA: What form of punishment did they mete out?

Don: No corporal. Just emotional.

Kathy: Like they would make you wash dishes for a couple of months. No one could talk to you. They would tell ‘em that you were a stumbling block to the gospel. Which is worse, mental.

Don: You’re the cause of Susie’s cancer. That was a standard line. I didn’t go along with a lot of it. Most of ‘em do.

GA: Are they sincere at all with any of their religious teaching?

Kathy: You mean the kids?

GA: No, Tony and Susan.

Kathy: I don’t think so. Now, that I’m out, I don’t. Then I did.

Don: Kathy had a hard time resolving that one. I, for awhile, thought that maybe there was a point in Tony’s life. I don’t know about Susie. Susie’s just plain malicious from the word go. But, I think maybe there was a point in Tony’s life.

Kathy: I think out of their ego, they might think they’re doing right, you know. But, maybe Tony. Cause, you see, Tony is a product of Susie. When he met Susie, Susie was already on her way to what she was going to do. Tony was a young Christian, just gotten saved. He didn’t know anything about the gospel. So, really, everything—the way he believes the scriptures, is what she’s taught him. So, he’s really no different than most of us. It’s just that he’s more intense, because he happens to be one of the leaders too. But, I don’t think on her---. Cause everything that she told us, now that we’ve left, we’ve found is a lie. Her whole background, she told us, you know, she was this and she was that, and now that we’ve left, we’ve found out, there’s nothing further from the truth. And see, when you’re in there and you’re told all these things. That God worked miracles through her and that she was called supernaturally, you believe it. But, since we’ve left, we’ve found it not so.

Don: And if the people in that organization could see these depositions they gave a few weeks ago, there’d be an exodus. They’d see once and for all that…

Kathy: But, see we tried to write ‘em letters. We’ve tried to communicate with them and they never get our letters. We’ve been told by the different people that have left there, that there have been house meetings, that if anybody accepts a letter from us, they get in a lot of trouble. And they’ve had prayer meetings for God to destroy us, you know. Stuff like that. (pg 4,5)

That's probably it for today. Any comments??
SG

[no_stoppin_me]

When I left the cult at the age of 18, I had been told that Kathy & Don were big "weasels". It had been seared in our brains.

Well, dont you know...the first people I see when I left was Don & Kathy. I was actually afraid of them at first. But I have to say that they were the kindest, most honest people I had ever met. All that I had been told about them were all lies.

The truth is that T & S were afraid of them. Afraid that they would tell everyone the truth. Thats why they fought so hard to keep them quiet.

[weaned_child]

Sue
How did you come by these depositions?

[no_stoppin_me]

Sue posted that "A friend recently shared some of their mountain of depositions with me."

Don't mean to answer for you, Sue! :-)

[weaned_child]

Do you have access to T&S's depositions mentioned by Don in your last post?

Don: And if the people in that organization could see these depositions they gave a few weeks ago, there’d be an exodus. They’d see once and for all that…

[rich_hydell]

sue i hope u dont mind but the depositions came from the devil himself ... their is a boat of stuff ....

[wilma]

HA HA, I don't mind at all. Just thought I'd let the devil speak for himself. ;-)

Weaned, yes, I am not exactly sure which ones Don is referring to but we have plenty with Tony and Sue, which I'll share....as will others. I'll check the dates and see if I have the ones Don mentions.

It really is time that the TRUTH was out!! Everyone that was there only had there little piece of the puzzle, but when we start putting our pieces together YOU CAN SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE CLEARLY!

Me putting these on Factnet will be a little slow cause I'm typing everything. If someone with a scanner wants to help put them on Factnet, contact me and I'll make you copies of a couple of the depositions.

no_stoppin_me, isn't that the truth!! Tony and Sue both tried to discredit everyone that knew their story. Everyone who left was a BiG WEASEL, Devil, Blasphemer, etc according to them.
SG

[cmingus]

hi wilma. Where do the depositions come from? I'd really like to read it all.

[wilma]

Cmingus,
I got these depositions from Richard (that's what he was referring to in the above post...he's referring to himself as the "devil"...how the Foundation defines him). He has lots of them and so do some other people. We'll work on making them accessible because I think it would be helpful. I don't know if you can still get them from the original sources (I suppose there is a time limit) but I do know they aren't cheap. I can't make copies for everyone....it's a mountain of paper, but we need to scan them and save them to disk. Any one want that project??????
SG

[cmingus]

...were the depositions from the Miller custody case?
....could I get your email add....some things I'd like to ask you, mine is clickbonk@gmail.com}

[christophr19]

Mrs. Groulx,
I have a scanner, and time seeing as I am home with little Jayden alot. I would love to read and scan them for the board. email me, or call.
Thanks and tell Jesse and Micah I said hello and to call me when they want.

[bill_l]

you go Chris I really don't know you well you were veru little when I left the foundation but have been reading y0ur posts and want to tell you I know all the junk the kids went through and

[bill_l]

sorry Chris just wanted to let you know I can understand you anger and rage and feeling hopeless to do anything but, what we are doing is exposing him when light comes darkness flees. and you have alot of light and truth.

[wilma]

Thanks, to those who have volunteered to help. I'll be getting in touch.

Here's more from Don and Kathy's interview with the authorities:

Kathy: They (Tony and Sue) go to Nashville a lot.

GA: How do they go? Do they fly?

Kathy: No, They are afraid that somebody will blow the plane up.

Don: They wouldn’t dare. She thinks they’re after her.

Kathy: They really do. She told him (Don) that one time. He came in and said “I don’t believe this.”

Don: That was one of the turning points in my experience. I got in the car with her and I said, “Susie, why don’t you just fly to Charlotte..she had to go to Charlotte…and she said, “ Don, I can’t get on a plane, they’d blow it up for sure.”

Kathy: And she’s serious. So they’d go in the limo, the limousine, the black limo.

GA: Did they drive it themselves?

Kathy: No, Ernie drives. They have a chauffer. He’s one of the members of the Fnd.

Don: Then they would have a car following with the “Beef” in it in case (?) came up there.

Kathy: That’s true. The paranoia picture there is so high there it’s unreal. You really believe everybody is out to get you. And, you’re just on the defensive all the time. It’s sad. It really is. (pg 13)

goodnight all,
SG

[christophr19]

Umm...(slightly a little red in the face)...thank you Mr. Levy; I appreciate that. Things really are different than what we were taught; and being so ill-prepared for "out in the world" can be quite a handicap when you are freshly out of the cult. There were many reasons to be angry, resentful, and plain pi$$ed-off; for how we were treated, all the lies we were told, the beatings(thankfully I myself never had to go to the MPB; but it was still terrifying, seeing your friends go)...you know, all that ****e.
Thankfully,I have chosen to let go of those dark emotions and soul-traps; however I still do have a voice, good vocabulary and grasp of the english language(thanks Mom!), and a willingness to speak plainly, and non-suck-up-ish-ly. Some may say I can be rude....I see it as being blunt and straightforward. Would they rather I sugarcoated it for them; Sorry, but what is the difference between that and lying?
Anyway, enough tooting my own drum. Just meant to say thank you, and look how far I chased that rabbit....huh...I really am Bill Curry's son.

[wilma]

Here's more from the transcript:

Kathy: "Susie and Tony, there toward the end were fighting a lot. Tony was getting…you know, Susie was spending money just like water…so a few years ago he’d just give her anything…but then toward the end before I left, they’d start getting in real big, knock down, drag out fights because she was spending money. Cause she’d spend $1,000 on a dress and not bat an eye. She got to where she was up tight about it and she did threaten a lot of times to get her own banking…own checking account. So, I don’t know, she might have. She used to come to Tulsa by herself with a couple of the girls.

Don: Well she got that $50,000 check from Jeanne and kept that herself.

Kathy: Yeah. Jeanne gave her $50,000 just before I left. Told her it was to buy furniture for her house. Plus, Jeanne had given her—there had been this diamond ring in their family for years—and that was one thing that Jeanne’s mother did give her when she died. And so Jeanne gave it to Susan. And, Susie had it appraised and she sent me down to pick up the appraisal and I’ve never looked at any of their personal stuff—for some reason –this was about 3 weeks before we left—and for some reason I looked at it and it was appraised at $11,000. But the funny thing was—I didn’t think anything about it and then 3 days later, Susie and Jeanne and I were in a car and Susie had the ring back on and Susie didn’t know that I had looked at the appraisal and she said to Jeanne, “I had this ring appraised and it isn’t worth the setting it’s on.” She said, “there’s a flaw in the middle and it’s absolutely worthless” and my mouth just dropped open. I thought, now look that is just an out and out lie. And, that’s when I started realizing, hey, this woman is not what she’s (______?). (pg18)

[rich_hydell]

hoe the heck and their be no responces to this did any one get it ....these words of truth will set anyone free with a open mind ....ah ..the holy one ..my friend tony turned the way he did after she died ...tony is and always be the same and thats the way it is ..is he right ..is he wrong ....i dont expect any one to judje me and i would never judge tony ...did kathy lie ...well is she lying about the ring ..sue used to say look go make up ur own religen if u dont like gods ..be origanl ....some people who left are just like dogs still lapping at the table of sue ...either believe it all or get off the pot ...

[until_the_redemption]

hydell - Susie Grew can't tell the truth she's been to the mind altering center trying to forget God and Kathy Wiley was splattered all over the ground when her balloon colapsed. a greusom end.

when your not drinking read the following:

Respected brother in Christ Jesus, I hold in my hands one of your pieces of literature entitled, The Pope's Secrets."
I would like to be sent some of your literature in Spanish and some in English, to give out to the prisoners to whom I write in different prisons, as well as to some brothers and friends. This literature, "The Pope's Secrets" is very important, but I would like variation as far as the literature goes, to help me evangelize. I await your reply,
Your brother in Christ, Pedro, Midland, Texas
3-2-2006

[no_stoppin_me]

bla bla bla!

Until, can't you get a little more original??? Those stupid fake letters are soooo boring, just like they were 20 years ago.

Come on, tell TA that you need something better to post, cuz no one cares about those letters. Oh and I see you stopped posting the ones from Nigeria and Ojthehath and made up a couple from the USA...good one!

[phahrrrt_detector]

Argh!
>>choke<<
>>choke<<

until_the_ademption

der u go agin
lettin dem gawd awful RGBs
>>choke<<
>>choke<<

u needz to quit!
Cuz u iz da BOMB! fer reel!
>>choke<<
>>choke<<

til ur nxt hosin
Phahrrrt_Detecter

[rich_hydell]

pedro...u make a good point ..drinking and typing can be fun ...just like sex and candy ...u seem like someone i could have a good laugh with ....does any one remember laughter (robert plant live version of stairway)...r

[rich_hydell]

pedro,first i spoke with kathya few months and she seemed very alive ...second ...this is the first time someone from what i now understand is a person who agrees with tony .. and that is fine with me your doing what u want to do so thats just fine with me ...have u ever been saved ,, well i havent and thats something thats always on my mind ...i need to run dinner is on the table ...pray for me ....r

[cha_cha]

Did Kathy Wiley get killed in a balooning accident? What are you saying in your post, Until?

[raining]

until the redemption-

In the above post you said, "Susie Grew can't tell the truth she's been to the mind altering center."

You are referring to tony alamo's foundation aren't you?

At the Toni Alamo Foundation a follower's mind would have to be altered to allow or endure all the things listed below:

1. followers to allow their under-age daughters to be raped by "world pastor" toni alamo (teeny-tiny). Oh wait he refers to this act of rape as "the under-age girl being his sexartary- oops- his wife!"
2. followers to allow their young &amp; teen-age children to be suspended spread eagle and beaten with a board by non family members at toni alamo's command. Some beaten bloody - over 100 times with a board.
3. adult followers allowing themselves to be beaten with a belt or board - once again commanded by "world pastor" toni alamo
4. followers to be put on long fasts, some up to 40 days - that also commanded by tooooni alamo! (of course he would eat during congo fasts!)
5. working 7 days a week -from sun up into the early morning hours, and then endure scorching rebukes from toni a-lame-o for being lazy! (all the while toni,teeny tiny alamo was in his a/c dwelling, resting on his bed!) it made him tired screaming at all the brothers and sisters for being lazy!

6. followers working and turning in all their hard earned paychecks so toni could buy his elevator boots and hair dye - meanwhile their toilet paper and personal needs were denied when put on the "finance list" - denied by toni himself

want to hear more!!!!!

oh- did you know about toni's cruise on the QEII! ask Bob Streit about the cruise- oh wait he was ordered to his cabin- toni didn't want any of the hard working brothers to see him drunk or picking up hookers! Ask about Toni's bar tab? What about when barney had to go pick toni up from jail- Sorry -his jail time was not for the Gospel! he was drunk!

until the redemption - wake up! stop letting your mind be altered by toni alamo- you know what is being posted is the truth. STOP lying and defending teeny tiny toni alamo- self annointed ,self appointed world pervert- oops world pastor!

[rich_hydell]

what im saying is .....kathy fell down and broke he crown ...and don came tumbling after ...on no thats not what happened ...let me think cha cha ..by the way i love your last name cha .. are you from spain .. i would love to meet you and we can cha cha ,,,with with kathy ..see from what i heard ... now dont tell any one cha ... but i heard kathy fell out of a hot air baloon .. but it was still on the ground and she hurt her knee ..its funny one day me smitty ,ian,rob sweet, holly,sue.and little bill levy well we all fell out off a hot air balloon ...it was nuts cha ...but do me a favor dont tell billys mommy ...because she will get really really mad ...ok cha ...oh by the way ..are you f.**ken nuts .......holy crap...

[rich_hydell]

wait a second .. stop the presses ....hydell thought cha cha was being a smart alek ...man its hard keeping track ...so cha cha ...hydell hydell says says sorry sorry ...ok ok .. really really...well well ..bu bu bu bu bu bye...

[cha_cha]

From my head to your mind, thanks Rich, Johnny Walker.

[until_the_redemption]

raining in Fresno
Susie Grew checked Herself into Wellsprings.
Wellspring offers services for mental cases, Like Susie Grew, with her illegitimacy that has plagued her into obesity.

Susie Grew was pompous at the Alamo Church.

you have been listening to the Devil and the people he's been using. telling you someone was beaten 100 times, that's nuts!

and if you were in your right mind you'd know it.

I am awake and I am not lying, YOUR the flake and if you don't get right You'll be standing with your knees shaking at the Great White Throne!

Dear Brother Alamo

I pray the Lord is blessing you and continues to prosper your ministries. I am writing because I need a bible please and more newsletters to use as tools to witness and start 2006 out on the right foot because you tell it like it is without sugar coating the truth and

I know it because ever since I started sharing your newsletters and the Word with people the devil has really been trying to get me.

I used to be a Muslim and in a gang but I gave it up for Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. Bro. Tony ever since I accepted Christ and chased the evil spirit out he has tried to come back with friends just like Jesus said the evil spirits would but you have encouraged me to stand fast in my faith and live righteously for God so I really thank you. God bless you brother. Yours in Christ,
Noel
Corcoran, Calif.
1/4/06

[until_the_redemption]

raining in Fresno
Susie Grew checked Herself into Wellsprings.
Wellspring offers services for mental cases, Like Susie Grew, with her illegitimacy that has plagued her into obesity.

Susie Grew was pompous at the Alamo Church.

you have been listening to the Devil and the people he's been using. telling you someone was beaten 100 times, that's nuts!

and if you were in your right mind you'd know it.

I am awake and I am not lying, YOUR the flake and if you don't get right You'll be standing with your knees shaking at the Great White Throne!

Dear Brother Alamo

I pray the Lord is blessing you and continues to prosper your ministries. I am writing because I need a bible please and more newsletters to use as tools to witness and start 2006 out on the right foot because you tell it like it is without sugar coating the truth and

I know it because ever since I started sharing your newsletters and the Word with people the devil has really been trying to get me.

I used to be a Muslim and in a gang but I gave it up for Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. Bro. Tony ever since I accepted Christ and chased the evil spirit out he has tried to come back with friends just like Jesus said the evil spirits would but you have encouraged me to stand fast in my faith and live righteously for God so I really thank you. God bless you brother. Yours in Christ,
Noel
Corcoran, Calif.
1/4/06

[raining]

until -
justin miller was beaten with a board over 100 times- that beating was commanded by toni alamo!. The beating Justin Miller endure was made public when the LA County Sheriff's raided saugus and retrieved the Miller boys - justin, cody and Bobby. The incident was published in major newspapers!. There are lots of other children who were beaten just as bad, however those were the foundation's dirty secrets- until NOW! Here are a few of the names of some of the children who also received beatings with a board, these beatings were commanded by toni alamo! - Lots of the kids were beaten with the board of education - read and weep for the injustice that was inflicted upon the children - all in the name of Jesus- commanded by toni alamo, the world pervert, oops self appointed world pastor.
April,Chuck,Tylon,Aaron,Tyron D,Jason, Justin, Paula, Darren,Eric,Jared,Carlos,Miguel,Tony, Johnny,Carrissa, just to name a few!

I am grieved to say that I know for a fact that the above children were beaten by the command of Toni alamo!

Go tell your lies somewhere else!

[wilma]

until the redemption (idiot),
Instead of believing the lies tony alamo has told you about Wellspring Retreat, you ought to go check it out yourself. www.wellspringretreat.org (http://www.wellspringretreat.org) I went to Wellspring for two weeks after being out of the Alamo cult for 5 years. The people who run Wellspring are fabulous! Going there was the best gift God ever gave me.

To my friends, I've been real busy lately and haven't had time to post more depositions. Here's one with my morning coffee ;-)

*******************************************
Interview with Don and Kathy 8/21/80
Kathy: We never dated, held hands, or anything before we got married. You don’t even know them and all of a sudden you’re married. If you want to talk after church services, you’re allowed to go sit down and talk but you have to have a third party, a chaperon. That’s why most of the marriages in there are so unhappy. Because, Susie has a real hatred for women and so does Tony. Tony hates ‘em.

Don: They’re all house pigs (to Tony).

Kathy: And within a month, most of the marriages are completely destroyed. Susie goes after one of the two. Whoever is the strongest of the two, she goes after to mentally destroy them in front of their partner.

GA: Now is this more for dominance or what?

Don: Yeah, to keep them in control. The way they keep their ranks tight, is first of all break down any kind of allegiance to anything but themselves, family unit or any other unit.

Kathy: They bait the married couples to where they don’t trust each other. They’re always fighting each other. See, there’s no strength there.

GA: But they do encourage the marriages?

Don: They didn’t at first but they did towards the end cause all the guys started leaving. They’d meet girls on the outside and they’d take off with them. Susie started talking about how we were getting to marrying age and we should raise…for awhile that scripture that Paul said it is better to marry than to burn….before that the favorite scripture was that everybody should abstain. It was considered a weakness to marry.

GA: but they were losing them?

Kathy: Yeah, they were loosing them. My gosh, I think everybody in the foundation got married within 3 years time. One time there were 11 weddings in a month. And a lot of the kids when they got married, they send the husband to Bakersfield and they hustle them around on their honeymoon night. They don’t have honeymoons. We got married, got home at three o’clock and had to be back at six. It was weird. And, immediately she’ll start prying into your personal life and she’ll start telling the girl the faults of the boy. And there’s several brothers there that just knock the tar out of their wives, just beat them to a pulp. And she encourages it, she tell them…I don’t blame you, I know what you’re going through, but whatever you do just don’t let the other kids know about it. She’s got a real sick thing. She would do anything. As a matter of fact, I was the only female on the whole place that she trusted, and probably only because I was the only one there from the beginning. It shocked her to the core that we left.

Kathy: Tony used to take pills. And, they know I know all that stuff. They know I know everything. I think, it really, really freaked them. (p 37, 38)

[wilma]

It would be good if anyone wants to add some comments of things from these depositions that you knew about. I'll start:

I know for a fact that the above statement is true. I spent my honeymoon working night shift at the restaurant. My husband and I had no sooner gotten married than we were threatened to be sent back to California (over a false report that we still don't know what was said). And then a few weeks later Susan Alamo rebuked me for not putting another couple on report. Her punishment was to put my husband on a 12 hour day crew at one of the gas stations, knowing that I worked the 12 hour night shift at the restaurant. That lasted for six months. Remember, we worked 7 days a week so we rarely ever saw each other during that whole time. We would pass each other in our little home at the "courts" for a few minutes or see each other at the prayer meeting in Dyer and that was it. Great way to start a marriage.

It was just a known thing that as soon as you got married you would be getting into trouble. How about the people who got married at the 3pm sunday service and than got "reamed" for having the nerve to miss the 8pm service? We all witnessed that happening.

I know it's true about guys being sent to Bakersfield to work the fields right after getting married.

It just blows me away that we put up with such insanity. But, obviously our minds were altered by the coercion, fear, manipulation, sleep deprivation, peer pressure, and isolation we experienced at the Tony and Susan Alamo cult (supposed Christian Foundation).

Piper told me awhile back that Tommy used to beat her (with Susan Alamo's permission) and Kathy is confirming that that sort of thing was going on.
SG

[raining]

Toni &amp; Sue knew they could control everyone by things they did to people. It was a weird mind set we all had. If Toni &amp; Sue were angry with you that meant the Lord was angry with you. I remember when Mark &amp; Claudia got married on Sunday afternoon, just a couple hours later Mark got the messaage to pack his stuff he was being sent to bakersfield to work! The vehicle picked mark up at #5 and headed to Saugus 1 (about 5 miles up the road). The vehicle broke down at Saugus 1- Mark spent his wedding night 5 miles away from his new bride. By T &amp; S shipping mark out on his wedding night it sent a message to all that mark &amp; claudia's marriage was not of the Lord, there was something really wrong with them. WHAT A PACK OF LIES!
My husband was gone on tree crew for 9 months in 1 year. He did come home one time for 2 days - i was scheduled to work at the raunt for 12 hr shifts, also we did't dare miss the prayer meetings to spend time together. We had no phone - so there was no way we got to talk to each other either.

[iasmann]

Until,

Justin Miller was beat over 100 times. 140 to be exact. There were plenty of eyewitnesses. Four men were arrested and jumped bail rather than face charges.

I see you posted another letter from another person who has never met Tony and has only read his literature (much of which is stolen like the "Messiah" book. It still amazes me that so few people respond to the hundreds of thousands of tracts Tony has distributed. It's August now and I think we've seen 4 letters from people written this year.

As Abe Lincoln said, "You can fool some of the people all of the time." Which for Tony is not many. He's got to be one of the worst cult leaders in the world. How many followers does he actually have now? Slowly but surely they keep abandoning him. How many are left 30? Probably not many more than that. How totally lame. Even that morman guy has about 10,000 followers.

Tony is the biggest failure I've ever met. He totally failed in business having to steal his material for his top twenty hits. He failed as a Christian and now he is failing as a cult leader. What a loser. His cult followers like yourself don't even have enough faith in him to reveal who they are on this website. How cowardly and pathetic.

You'll beat his drum and proclaim his greatness but only anonymously. What's the matter are you like the unjust steward. Are you worried that Tony might kick you out? You don't want us to know who you are in case you ever have to call on us for help. Is that it?

Noel hit the nail on the head though when he said the Devil would come back and bring his friends. Tony is far worse now than he ever was before he professed to be a Christian. Clearly the devil came back with a lot of friends and Tony welcomed them all back in. As I've said before the only sin we can say for sure that Tony hasn't committed is the sin of Lesbianism.

[until_the_redemption]

Ian in Pensecola, Florida the scorchig sun has gotten to you.

Justin was not beaten 140 times, you like to up, and up, and up the number cause you think nobody will take notice unless you make it so unreal.
Justin Miller was fornicating on the ridge with the girls and you know it!

You were one of the fuma's, the untouchables.

You typeset the tracts and now you made up your own tract using the same format. Trying to tear down God's anointed,
But YOU have already failed.

You turned from God. You even lied to people in the Church... You told them Tony was jetting you out somewhere and YOU had the people at the apartments packing your truck for you, then you left the House of God.

Dear Pastor Alamo
You sent me a package before of the first books of Genesis and they helped so much with my understanding of the bible. I was wondering if you had more tapes, perhaps you don't know... how much your church has helped me grow closer to Christ.
Thank you so much... I hope to hear from you soon. Thank you again.

Roanoke,VA
January 26, 2006

[iasmann]

Let's see who's lieing. The figure 140 has been quoted from the 1980's. That's almost 20 years. A simple review of numerous newspaper articles will confirm this. So to say I've upped the number is a lie. That makes you the liar.

Tony is the one upping things. Now he's adding that Justin was a fornicator and that I knew it which is two more lies.

To say I told anyone at the church anything is a lie because Tony doesn't run a church. He runs a cult. So that makes you a liar again.

Why would I tell people at the cult that I was jetting somewhere if I was packing a truck. No one but Tony would think anyone was stupid enough to believe I was going to take a truckload of furniture and banana boxes on a plane. So again you are lying. And obviously getting your info from Tony.

I simply told them that we had to leave immediately and that we couldn't tell them where we were going. Tony is so secretive about everything they assumed we were going off to some secret location on some special mission for Tony. They even helped us load the truck. I never mentioned Tony's name or said I had gotten any instructions from Tony.

The only person posting on this website that I know for sure is a liar is Tony. I know, Tony's not telling you what to say blah blah blah. We all know that's a lie to. But of every person from the foundation who is posting on this site. Susie G., Bill L., Rich H., and all the others none of them has ever lied to me or about me that I know of. But Tony lied to me many times and lied about me many times when I was at the foundation. I always excused it because I didn't want to believe that he was the weasel he is. But the fact is Tony Alamo aka Bernie Hoffman aka Johnny Dark aka Marcus Abad aka Harvey Cochran aka ad nauseum is a known and proven liar.

Believing him will surely take your soul to Hell.

[smitty]

Untill.... Ditto on what Ian said! I remember when Carlos and Miguel were beaten. Altho' I was at the office Isaw all the hush hush stuff as they were called for and then brought to Tony's House. Afterwards the brothers who administered the beating were over where I was and I heard them talking about the beatings they gave to those two little boys! I was shocked at the time but justified it in my own mind since "Tony CAN'T be wrong because he's annointed".I accepted it because I was mentaly in his grip as a CULT member like you are now.Don't be so stupid and ignorant as to insult our intelligence by telling us what we did or didn't see and hear!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/angry.gif

[bill_l]

I have been thinking of all the things that we went through back in the foundation. The thing that God has shown me was the doctrine (false!). You know that susie was christ like and she was suffering for our sins , and God was not healing her because she was the spiritual thermometer for the sins of the church..lol..What a bunch of baloney. Now here's the truth... I am going to take you back to Sodom and Gomorah. Now the people of Sodom and gomorah were guilty of attempting to rape angels and would have if they where not striken with blindness. Now most of us knowing better, still grade sin. Well Lot made intercession for these sinners , and God relented saying if you find righteous man I will
I will spare everyone. Well if God was willing to forgive Sodom and Gomorah for trying to rape GODS HOLY ANGELS. Now here is this little punk and I do mean very little who has to wear elevated shoes to compensate for his Napolean complex being a little jew boy who got raped and beaten in his home at bois town cause his mother couldn't stand the little <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>. now my question is if holy alamo is so righteous surely God for sure would heal susan if toni the p_ss drinker was righteous. But we all know his mind was in the gutter. hey phoney did the boys hurt you as much as youhurt Liz G. ?}}

[raining]

until - you are a liar - just like your leader, world perv toni alamo!

In the above post you said, "Justin Miller was fornicating on the ridge with the girls and you know it!" That is a lie

Justin Miller was 11 yrs old on the ridge and he was a good kid! Anyone who babysat him or taught him school will tell you so.

The school kids didn't know about sex until papa perv started teaching sex education to them. Well he only taught sex ed to the little girls!

In public school around the 5-6th grade they show a video explaining sex ed to the kids.

Papa perv has a more "hands on" version!

His sex ed class is "tell &amp; demonstrate, even if it is forciable rape!" (Lizzy G)

[no_stoppin_me]

Ok, let me get this straight, Until...You say "Justin Miller was fornicating with the girls on the Ridge" Is that why he got beat 140 times??? What do you call what Tony, your "world pastor" is doing by sleeping with and having children with several women &amp; young girls??? What does Tony call that these days??? Oh wait, its ok cuz they are his "wives", right??

It is a complete insult and a disgust for you to get on this message board and say that kids did not get beat on the Ridge. I was a kid there and I saw it with my own damn eyes. Many of my friends were beaten until they were so bloody that their clothes stuck to their skin afterwards. That is the damn truth!!!

You think because you post some stupid 6-month old letter from someone who has never met Tony or ever heard the real truth about him, that you will earn some brownie points with old Papa Perv??? Don't be fooled, he will kick you out so fast it will make your silly little head spin. He will use you as long as he has some use for you and then spew you out.

[until_the_redemption]

Ian in Pensecola, I never said you were flying. You did pack your truck, so the sofa didn't fit on the ladder rack. You admit to deceiving your brethren.

Justin Miller was a little conniving weasel, like so many of you. Look at you now, so full of yourself.

raining in Fresno, In the carnal realm spanking is done to stop a rotten child from being themselves. most likely as a child you never got spanked and your as rotten as they come.

what is Lizzy to you and what do you care

January 22, 2006

Dear Pastor Alamo,
My name is Gayle, I ordered some literature and have been reading it through. I want to order several boxes of each newsletter 1000 of 10 different newsletters.I own an Ice Cream truck and attend many festivals throughout the summer months and I need lots of literature to pass out. The name of my company is Sweetest Blessings. I thank you in advance for sending me material to pass out, so that I may truly bring Sweetest Blessings to the lost.

Your Friend... Gayle, MI
thanks

[phahrrrt_detector]

until_the_ademption in da strongholds o hell

u\'r stuff iz so rank
its bin reekin o da brimbstone
fer a long time now

evr time u gits on here wid u\'r nonsense
its lak da pits o hell don belcht up
a hole gut full o da RGBs
(an u knos dats jes down rite stanky!)

u jes keeps on a postin Toni/Shmoni/Lahmo\\'s trash
wid tireless misguided zeel until_the_ademption
jes lak u didnt kno no bettah

but u aint foolin nybody wid dem repeeted lies
cuz witness after witness
jes keeps shootin u an yo trash-postins
full o holes

we knos u gonna jes keep on a scamperin back
to dat sef-anointed weezle o yorn
fer mo garbage to sling on dis bord
an we knos y 2

CUZ STUPID IZ AZ STUPID DUZ!!!!!

<tsk-tsk>
dont u kno u caint run dat game on folks dat knos bettah
namely all da witnessez dat down thru da yerz
dun seen an herd Toni’s sinful goins on
cuz until_the_ademption
dat dawg dont / caint an wont hunt round here


Ah wuld pity da po dummy wut haz to keep
Shmoni up on wutz gettin posted on dis bord
(cuz Lord knos hes 2 blind to reed it his sef)
but ah dont pity dat dimwitted moron at all
cuz da Lord sez
dat whoevr dat dummy iz
dey iz a free moral agent
(heres a clu - it means dat nitwit shuld kno mo bettah
who evr dey iz!!)

evrbody postin on dis bord knos
Shmoni aint hardly nevr ben plesant to deel wif
speshally ifn hes da bu++ o da joke
so its gotta REELY be da pits
fer who evr haz to keep a tellin him
OVR an OVR agin
how all o hiz yerz o willful sinnin
dat hes ben a tryin to play off az godlyness
jes keeps gettin shouted frum da rooftops
draggin him an hiz demonic actions into accountability
fer da whole world to reed about mo an mo
ny time dey happens on dis bord
xposin him fer da unholy sinner he reely iz
nailin dat ol rascal Toni/Shmoni/Lahmo agin an agin

an until_the_ademption
u caint stop it nether
no mattah wut bogus posts u brings to dis bord


til ur nxt hosin
Phahrrrt_Detecter

[iasmann]

We never attempted to take the sofa. The truck did not have a ladder rack. Two more lies. I told the false brethren no lies. They believed what they wanted to believe. Now if I'd said I was operating in the open when I was really hiding out under a false name like when Tony stole Harvey Cochran's ID and used it, then that would be deceptive.

Justin Miller was a young boy who needed correction like all young boys do. Not a severe abusive beating 140 times with a 2X4. Yes 140, 140, 140 times. It was a severely abusive criminal beating ordered by Tony. It was 140 times with a 2X4. Eyewitness accounts have said it was 140 times for almost 20 years now. It's hard to believe anyone could be that cruel but Tony is. Tony is the one who upped the amount. He started out with ten but when Justin wouldn't confess to the false accusation he kept upping it ten and twenty at a time. Until it reached 140.

Being opposed to criminal child abuse is not the same as being opposed to spanking. This is a standard Tony tactic. To try to equate his criminal activities with legitimate ones. Justin miller did not get spanked. He was severely criminally beaten and it is a miracle that he was not maimed for life. Old Testament Bible standards for beating grown men convicted of certain crimes (not 8 year old boys) is not to exceed forty lashes. Tony went to 140. So even his claims of Biblical discipline are lies.

Tony uses these same garbage equations to justify his other sins like raping young girls. He calls it marriage. He brings up Islamic customs of marrying girls at young ages and treating them like dogs as his justification. That's why he is so supportive of Muslim and Islamic terrorists.

Lizzy is a human being who was raped by Tony when she was 15. We care about her because we have not lost our natural affection for others as you have.

The Bible describes Tony and his followers well.

"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not (they don't understand compassion for a rape victim); and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, (Tony's eyes) and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

I'd say that is an excellent description of Tony and many others through the years who have given themselves over to Satan. Tony is really nothing more than just another Judas. Like many others who have used the Gospel for their own profit, gain and lusts. So really he's not that original. Just another Judas. Just another perv.

[raining]

until

Does it make a difference what Lizzy is to me?

Lizzy was under age when toni (Tony Alamo) forced her to be his wife= (rape &amp; sex slave)! Same with Jeannie and the rest of the little girls who live at toni’s house down there in Fouke,AR

I loved Lizzy and her family! Her mom and dad are my beloved friends. And as Ian posted - because we have not lost our natural affection for others as you have.

You're an idiot! There is a huge difference between giving a spanking and child abuse!


What happened to Justin Miller and the other children who were BEATEN BLOODY with a board at toni (Tony Alamo's ) command was called “CHILD ABUSE”.

The children were suspended in mid-air, spread eagle with 1 person holding each limb. Then B.Streit would begin administering the punishment with the wooden paddle, the board of education – is what Toni (Tony Alamo) called that board. Streit said he would swing the “Board of Education” as hard as he could - he said it was like chopping wood.

The children were beaten bloody at the command of Toni (Tony Alamo)

No one in their right mind would defend those vicious acts of child abuse !

I'm re-posting a statement that “no stoppin me” posted, "It is a complete insult and a disgust for you to get on this message board and say that kids did not get beat on the Ridge. I was a kid there and I saw it with my own damn eyes. Many of my friends were beaten until they were so bloody that their clothes stuck to their skin afterwards. That is the damn truth!!!"

You are an idoit and a liar just like your leader - papa perv. Did he promise you one of the little girls when she turns 12?

You are pervert just like the self proclaimed world pervert, -oops world pastor Tony Alamo!

[cha_cha]

How is it T.A. can say he is the author of the Messiah book and that he wrote the book? Could you answer that question for me in all honesty? And WHY he claims he wrote that book? The Messiah book was around long before its authorship was changed to T.A. was'nt it? It seems he justifies sole authorship because he added to it? Why is the original author not included, at least? Could you give me a satisfactory answer to this question Untill?

[no_stoppin_me]

Come on Cha Cha, you can't possibly think you will get an honest answer from Until, do you?

What you will get though is some old, out-dated boring a$$ letter from someone who has never met TA and doesnt know what a perv he is.

Or he/she will call you fat, a liar, bla bla, you know typical TA style.

[weaned_child]

yeah 'until'
What gives with such blatant out and out thievery anyways???

[raining]

yeah "Until"
what gives with you defending Tony Alamo, a known child abuser,polygamy practicing pedophile pervert?

Birds of a feather - they flock together! By your posts I understand that you agree with Tony Alamo, the world pervert! You admire and look up to that ol pervert Tony Alamo! You want to be just like him don't ya! You're Guilty by Association!

(Message edited by Raining on August 02, 2006)

[razzor9]

What I dont understand is why Toni even cares what is said on factnet or anywhere else. He has what he wants for now, all his sex slaves and followers. Like Ian said he has what a total of 30 or so still there, and not even the homeless are stupid enough to go there where ever that is. There whole mission is to keep Lamo happy and fat.

Ian stated it well, toni failed at everything he has ever done, he cant even be a cult leader.

As far as the beatings how dumb to state something didnt happen when it is a matter of public record? Do they think they can tell a lie enough times and some one will believe it?


All toni has left to do is DIE now and live out his days in the den of sin that he has created. AND THAT DAY WONT COME SOON ENOUGH.

WHAT A LOOSER AND ALL OF THE STUPID IDIOTS WHO DO HIS BIDDING.

bill_l great posts as always, keep them coming

susie more depos please,did you find help with scanning?

[until_the_redemption]

<center><font size="+1">listen to all of you rant and rave!</font></center>

amazing what happens to your mind when you turn from God.

you turned away from God and your blaming The Pastors.

Just like the devil when he turned away from God.

same old, same old boy.


December 02, 2005

Dear Pastor Alamo, may Almighty God bless for you for your literature you have been sending to us.
Please I have received my requests. And I have shared it to the entire church, in markets, hospitals, &amp; workplaces.

But Pastor so many people are asking for literature entitled Earthquake.
So I will be very grateful if you send us some. Others are asking for Bible, THE MESSIAH.
So PASTOR kindly help, please.
So many people are giving their life to Jesus through your literature.
THANK YOU
GOSPEL CENTRE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD CHURCH
GHANA

[until_the_redemption]

<center><font size="+1">listen to all of you rant and rave!</font></center>

amazing what happens to your mind when you turn from God.

you turned away from God and your blaming The Pastors.

Just like the devil when he turned away from God.

same old, same old boy.


December 02, 2005

Dear Pastor Alamo, may Almighty God bless for you for your literature you have been sending to us.
Please I have received my requests. And I have shared it to the entire church, in markets, hospitals, &amp; workplaces.

But Pastor so many people are asking for literature entitled Earthquake.
So I will be very grateful if you send us some. Others are asking for Bible, THE MESSIAH.
So PASTOR kindly help, please.
So many people are giving their life to Jesus through your literature.
THANK YOU
GOSPEL CENTRE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD CHURCH
GHANA

[no_stoppin_me]

See??? What did I tell you Cha Cha?? Another letter from some third-world country who doesnt know the truth about Papa Perv. Alamo followers dont know how to tell the truth or answer simple questions.

First of all, they would have to get permission from the Grand Poopah on what to post, and that could take some time if Tony is busy performing his "husbandly" duties with his many sexataries,,oops, I mean "wives".

Second of all, they believe that as long as you are lying in the name of God, then thats ok.

So, I wouldnt waste your time asking "Until" any reasonable straight-forward questions.

We know the truth! And the truth has truly set me free!!!!

[cha_cha]

I just ask a question. I am not and did not rant and rave. But you are right "No Stoppen Me" my question did not get answered. Oh, what will I do? How could it be answered honestly?

[cha_cha]

The Messiah book is an excellant book. It seems one would want the originator and author to be credited as in (giving credit in that which is due) in all the work he did to make it. Thats all I am saying. The Lord knows who wrote that book and the original author, and He knows who added to it. So whats the big deal with answering a simple Question?

[bill_l]

Hey phoney!! Do you remember after you had April beat, latter you turned to me "and said to me I had her beaten so bad that when ahe gets married she will be so scared of having sex she will put it on the ask tony list if she could have some sex and then gave one of the most Demonic laughs I have ever heard. oh by the way bernie do you remember calling black people little black sambo? or do you remember showing me a picture of an old black woman who died on a toilet bowl and how funny you thought it was. you are nothing but a liar. oh and now I know why your mother put you in boys town really hurt didn't it tony and that is why women are described by you as housse pigs remember saying that in church. how selective our memories get as we gain in years and our days become fewer. Your day will come oh and remember what susie told you in the hospital right before you called up the church and told us the lord said he was going to heal susie.....Not...just proved that you lied in the name of the Lord. your good buddy Bill Levy.

[cha_cha]

So "untill" your saying pastor T.A. had nothing to do with alot of souls being stumbled? Everyone that left, just left because they decided they wanted to NOT serve God anymore? Could you explain your statement. Are you saying the pastors testimony has always been that of the Lord himself and thats why people left? Are you saying there is absolutly no connection with T.A. himself with all these people that left, they just turned from God? It had nothing to do with pastor T.A.?

[phahrrrt_detector]

Whoa ‘cha cha’
r u evr leavin yer sef open fer a boat load o u kno wut wif dat one

dancing wif da devil will fer shur git u trampled undr his cloven hufs
an jes mashed rite down nto all o dat skwaller n filth Shmoni peddles

dese puppets o his
lak until_the_ademption
Toni/Shmoni/Lahmo makes post on dis bord
caint evr tell da truth
no not nevr

dey iz 2 bit clonz o der master Shmoni
who iz plum full o cons n diseat
so ah axt u ‘cha cha’
wutz left fer dem to ‘share’?
jes meaninless dead letters
dat evn dem ying/yangs still n ol Shmoni’s cult
dont evn want to hav to lissen to
n ‘cha cha’ beleve it
cuz dats da Honest/To/God truth

but wut choice dey got
elsen dey git good n fed up
n jes walks rite outta dat god forsaken place
lak de rest o us dun
onst we finaly waked up
n got a good noze full o dat stuff Shmoni’s ben dishin out
lak it wuz da gospel
only it aint
it aint!!!
it aint!!!


jes here to keep da record strate
Phahrrrt_detector

[wilma]

This one starts out with Tony Alamo (Bernie Lazar Hoffman) sounding a bit like Bill Clinton when he was caught with his pants down.

This interrogatory over child support was filed Sept 2, 1969, Superior Court of the state of California, for the county of Los Angeles

Judy Lee Stearns, Plantiff vs.
Bernie Lazar Hoffman, Defendant

Q. Have you ever had sexual relations with the plantiff?

A. I have never had normal sexual relations with the plantiff.

Q. Give your exact address for each place you resided......(due to typing I'm going to skip some where they ask Tony (Bernie) where he has lived, etc. and other non-essential information.)

Q. Do you now claim that you are disabled and unable to work?
A. Yes

Q. If so, what is the nature of your disabilities?
A. Blindness

Q. Prior to January 1, 1965 had you ever been married?
A. Yes

Q. If so, what was the maiden name of each wife, the date of each marriage, and the place of each marriage.
A. I am unable at this time to locate all of my records regarding this interrogatory. However, I am able at this time to provide the following information:
1. Joann Dill, married to her from 1952 to 1955, divorced in Cleveland, Ohio. other information unverified at this time.
2. Helen Hagen, married to her from 1961 to 1965, married and divorced her in Las Vegas, Nevada; other information unverified at this time.

Q. For each divorce or annulment proceeding to which you have been a party, please specify the following:
A. At this time I am unable to provide more specific information than I have previously provided above and the fact that I married Susan Lipowitz on August 19, 1965.

Q. Have you ever been the father of a child?
A. Not to my knowledge.

[wilma]

Now let’s skip forward to a deposition on April 22, 1981 of Tony Alamo aka Bernie Lazar Hoffman
In this deposition Tony claims he has two sons by a former wife. Just shows that Tony Alamo had no problem lying under oath in his 1969 interrogatory. Tony was a liar even then, when he was claiming to be a zealous young Christian.

Mr Garner: Mr Alamo, were you ever a defendant in a paternity suit?
Tony answers: Yes.
Q. When?
A. Oh, about seventeen years ago.
Q. Where?
A. Los Angeles
Q. Were you directed……..
Then Roy Gean steps in and trys to stop the questioning about Tony’s personal life.
Mr Garner continues…..
Q. Were you ordered and directed to make monthly support payments, Mr Alamo?
Mr Gean: That’s more than ten years ago and we’re not going to answer that.
Garner continues:
Q. Are you making monthly support payments now?
A. Yes
Q. And have you been making them continuously for the last ten years?
A. Yes
Q. Are they made by check out of the Foundation funds?
A. Yes
Q. The Foundation pays them, in other words?
A. The Foundation pays several paternity suits for any—on cases.
Mr Gean: You’re talking about divorce and so on?
A. Yeah
Mr Garner: But I’m talking about—
Mr Gean: You’re just talking about him, and he answered that, yes.
A.Mine too, that’s right.
Mr Garner: It pays—has been paying $50 a month?
A.$50.50.
Q. Ever since the Foundation’s been formed.
A. Before the Foundation—
Q. Yes, but since the Foundation—when the Foundation came into being, it took up the payments and started paying it?
A. That’s right.
Q. All right, sir. And where was that sent?
(skipping down to more information)
Garner continues:
Q. When will your child, putative child, reach majority?
A. It’s not my child, but I’m paying the payments on it.
Q. I’m saying putative child, that’s the reason I said that.
A..When will—what?
Q.. Reach majority?
A.. I believe within a half a year to a year.
Q. In other words, you anticipate the payments will stop within a year?
A. Yes
Q. All right.
A. It might have already stopped.
Q. Do you have any children by any other wife or lady?
A. Well, I’ve been accused, but I have two children and I don’t know where their whereabouts are.
(skipping down)
Q. The $50.50 you’re paying is for a son?
A. It’s for a—
Q. A boy?
A. A boy.
Q. All right, sir. Do you have a child, a putative child, other than that boy?
Mr Gean: Explain to him what you mean by putative.
Mr Garner continues: That means it’s alleged, somebody accused you of being the father.
Mr Gean: Now, Charlie, you know we’re objecting to this, as far as the admissibility at the trial—
Mr Garner: I understand.
Tony Alamo answers: Well, I had two children by a former wife, but I don’t know where the two boys are. They are my boys.
Q. But you’re not in contact with them or the wife?
A. No, don’t know where they are.
Q. When was the last contact you had with them?
A. I would say around thirty years ago.

[iasmann]

I'd say it's about time for a bunch of one world Vatican stuff right now. Anything to smokescreen this. He just got through condemning me as a lying deceiver because a couple of guys thought that Tony was jetting me somewhere and here he is lying under oath. That's both a sin and a criminal act.

Of course he's such a pathalogical liar that he won't hesitate to deny ever saying this stuff.

He'll probably say he was busy writing the Messiah book when all this went down. Or maybe it was a Jesuit agentur that impersonated him. Or it could be that all of this is just fabricated and planted in various courthouses around the country. The Vatican knew about his 2 kids so they made up the first interview 20 or 30 years before.

Anyway the possibilities are endless what with all the various conspiracies. Skull and Bones might have done it. Or the Bilderbergers or the CFR or the Tri-lateral commission. Who knows it might even have been done by Ronald Reagan. But we do know (because Tony said so) that he has been called the "greatest idea man in the world" or "in history' or "ever" or something like that, as many times as Tony said it you'd think I would remember. It will be interesting to see what kind of a response we get from Tony's current mouthpiece. I'm sure we're all in for a real treat. LOL

[hollydolly]

wilma--thankyou so much for the picture of me,lizzy and jeannette.....wow we were like 14 i think! lol my hair just says it all! it really made me understand better what mindset i left them in and they never got out of.......i would rather shave my head now then to have that hairstyle!lololol

[rich_hydell]

is that picture on marcells page ...i would like to show it to jeanettes cousin...

[until_the_redemption]

Cha Cha

many people left because of the treatment some of you gave them.
the Pharisee treatment.

Ezekiel 7
3 Now is the end come upon thee, and I will send Mine anger upon thee,
and will judge thee according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee
all thine abominations.

4 And Mine eye shall not spare thee, neither will I have pity: but I will recompense thy ways upon thee, and thine abominations shall be in the midst of thee: and ye shall know that I
am the LORD.

and for the record: Tony doesn't even read or post on this site

[no_stoppin_me]

Well we know he doesn't read it himself because he can't see, Remember he was on disability because he is legally blind.

And we know he can't type.

But you can be sure that some poor soul has to sit and monitor this site and report back to him what is being said about him on Factnet. They probably have shifts 24 hours a day. That has replaced the 24 hour prayer "chain". LOL

[no_stoppin_me]

Until, Can you please have TA read that scripture that you posted because I think it is so appropriate for him:

4 And Mine eye shall not spare thee, neither will I have pity: but I will recompense thy ways upon thee, and thine abominations shall be in the midst of thee: and ye shall know that I
am the LORD.

[hollydolly]

rich--no that pic is not on marcels page and hopefully wilma will not have it posted..........its embarrassing to say the least what dorks we were back then........well jeannette and lizzy probably still are but anyways

[bill_l]

Well I guess that settles it..until for someone that cloaks his identity is now speaking directly for toni. So Toni has never been to factnet. And why should anyone believe what you say. Tell me did Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, preach to Gods people under assumed names. I have never seen where God told his prophets Go you and fool the people until the redemption lol , if God be for you who could be against them....only the fearful and unbelieving run when no man pursues. whatever yu do don't put your name to a text your ashamed of. Now lets talk about your savior bernie turdy... This guy was so unrighteous that he couldn't even petition his God for a miracle so God would save that ugly B_tch. Now that would be a simple task for an almighty God to save lol (The disgusting wife of Gods world pastor . Now the bible says the harvest is ripe but the laborers are few. why when bernie turdy needed his God to heal, God destroyed her. and then put it in his heart to do something so barbaric like keeping a human cadaiver in his home with the casket open for many weeks until she was rotting under his eyes lol....right in the dinning room what an odd ball. look up Toni your judgement draws nigh...as always till the day we meet again. Bill Levy

[cha_cha]

So untill is saying it was the pharisee treatment of the brothers and sisters that made everyone leave. It had nothing to do with the Pastor. Untill talks of the pharisee treatment and then proceeds to qoute scripture. I have not read a post yet that backs up your statement that people left because they felt they were mistreated by bros. and sisters. Most of the better memories, it sounds to me, are of the bros. and sisters. So your saying it was all their fault and had nothing to do with the way T.A. was to them?

[rich_hydell]

holly dolly im cool with that ......goodbye...

[cha_cha]

If you read (verse two) of Chapter 7 EZEKIEL, it says, Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God unto the land of Israel;An end,is come upon the four corners of the land.
And then it goes into your quoting of scripture.

[cha_cha]

untill, Can't you answer a question without quoting scripture, that is very pharisee to me.
The scriptures you quote apply to ya all too don't ya think?! You still did not answer my question on the authorship of the Messiah book??

[bill_l]

cha cha I can tell you of a certainty Toni did steal that book I read it in 1970 ....thats my story and I'm sticking to it. Bill L

[bill_l]

I just want to say Hey to Ian. keep the messages comming Ian and nice talking to you again . Bill

[until_the_redemption]

bill levy that scooped up a bunch of money. 10,000 dollars was a lot back then, stole it from the brothers and was going to leave the church with it and possibly start his own pig farm?

after all that Sue did for you and you call her names like that.

you have no shame, no conscience. and no sleep ever wondering and worrying if you went too far.

hey Ian when is your next tract coming out?

[bill_l]

If you want to talk to me punk you need to have a name you know like <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> head.You wouldn't know the truth if it were to stare you in the face. Hey wait don't forget the tract wow now that one was real trouble cause the whole law enforcement was waiting with baited breath for bernie turdy and his ugly platnum blonde wigs lol. now when all the law enforcement heard the news and dropped everything because they new the stature of baloney and promptly came running from every state to hook the death of some sort of hooker on me ..roflmao Not.... not even one police man cause they really new bernie the liar. and you ...you idiot how many decades have you sold yourself into bondage what is it up to now $7.00 a week yup you are really kind of stupid I'll bet you could get more money if you would let people spit in your face for a dime a louey... Get a life you think your going to march into glory . But when your idiot savior gets stopped at the pearly gates your head is going to imbeed in his rectum you brown noser . come out come out whoever you are..little fa_ry
have a real good day and as far as me stealing from the church well its like tonis tract full of cr_p}}}

[bill_l]

If you want to talk to me punk you need to have a name you know like <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> head.You wouldn't know the truth if it were to stare you in the face. Hey wait don't forget the tract wow now that one was real trouble cause the whole law enforcement was waiting with baited breath for bernie turdy and his ugly platnum blonde wigs lol. now when all the law enforcement heard the news and dropped everything because they new the stature of baloney and promptly came running from every state to hook the death of some sort of hooker on me ..roflmao Not.... not even one police man cause they really new bernie the liar. and you ...you idiot how many decades have you sold yourself into bondage what is it up to now $7.00 a week yup you are really kind of stupid I'll bet you could get more money if you would let people spit in your face for a dime a louey... Get a life you think your going to march into glory . But when your idiot savior gets stopped at the pearly gates your head is going to imbeed in his rectum you brown noser . come out come out whoever you are..little fa_ry
have a real good day and as far as me stealing from the church well its like tonis tract full of cr_p}}}}}}}}}

[hollydolly]

ya just like the millers were weasles right? lololol guess what it took me 10 years to realize who really was the bad guy and it wasn't any of the people tony made us believe it was.........until you rot---<font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> off

[cha_cha]

Hey untill, why don't you tell Bill and Ian who you are? I mean are not you suppose to be as bold as a LION? Whats up with that?

[hollydolly]

lolololol

[no_stoppin_me]

Do any of the "old-timers" know if the Foundation ever paid that judgement?? And if no, how did they get away with not paying?

I recall something like they wrote the checks and then people signed them back over to the foundation, is that true?

I remember one of my jobs (when I was a kid) was working in the office and making up fake "time sheets" for all the businesses to show only 40 hours a week. I must have been like 14 doing that job, lol. You know, teach em young to "lie for Jesus"

[wilma]

NSM,
When we were IN the Foundation, you never really knew what was going on with the different court cases. (other than having to pray for hours for God to bind the devil and to destroy the enemies). If we lost any court cases, Tony always blamed it on the Fnd members with the SPIN that is unique to Tony Alamo. None of us knew what was going on at the IRS trial except for the handful of people that were there to testify. We never knew Tony pleaded the 5th when asked about all his multiple wives or about his son, Tabor (with #2 wife, Lydia Willis).

I do remember that Tony bragged that he (and the Fnd) would never pay the government on the Labor Dept judgment. I don't know for sure but I don't think he ever did. It was still dragging out in 1991 after he got out of jail for threatening Fed Judge Arnold...I remember going to court in Fayetteville. Razzor, do you know?? Great info, thanks.

Another thing I wanted to mention from Tony's deposition. He states (infers) that in addition to the Fnd paying his child support, the Fnd paid child support for other members. Well, we all remember that Tony moved Daryl Minnaberriet and Marvin Payne to other Fnd locations (hiding them) so that they would not be reachable to pay child support...probably others too, but I can't think of them right now.
I am referring to statements he made in the deposition:
Q. Are you making monthly support payments now?
Tony Answers: Yes
Q. And have you been making them continuously for the last ten years?
A. Yes
Q. Are they made by check out of the Foundation funds?
A. Yes
Q. The Foundation pays them, in other words?
Tony A. The Foundation pays several paternity suits for any—on cases.
Mr Gean: You’re talking about divorce and so on?
A. Yeah
Mr Garner: But I’m talking about—
Mr Gean: You’re just talking about him, and he answered that, yes.
A. Mine too, that’s right.
Mr Garner: It pays—has been paying $50 a month?
A. $50.50.

Tony has been a diabolical liar from the beginning and continues to be one. (he is also a rapist, polygamist, child abuser, pedophile, thief, plagarist, deceiver, false prophet, railer, etc etc)

Until The Redemption (idiot), you have turned away from the living God to serve Tony Alamo, a con-artist, with all your heart and soul. You serve and fear Tony Alamo, not God. Wake up, before it's too late for you!!
SG

[no_stoppin_me]

Wilma, I do remember that TA used to brag and say "Yeah, we didnt pay the IRS $18 mil, $18 dollars or 18 cents.

Oh and how bout the time, he brought Channel 5 News up there to do a story about all the nice houseing, etc. "Yeah, we have "wall to wall carpet", like that was some great concept that he came up with. Oh yeah, and "custom drapes" LOL

[cha_cha]

Matt 18 v.15 More over if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
v.16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
v.17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church; but if he neglect to hear the church,let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a PUBLICAN. Thats Matthew chapter 18 v. 15-17

[cha_cha]

Matthew 18 v.19 and 20 Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
v. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Since were quoting scripture (untill) here are some great ones don't ya think!!??

[raining]

No stoppin me-
Tony also had us adjust the time sheets for all those who worked at the candy building or TCB. However tony had us change the hours that everyone worked to 4 hrs a day. (really we worked 6 days a week from 830 am -630 pm &amp; some got to leave for the evening prayer meeting and then after the prayer meeting ended back to TCB again from 930 pm - 1 am - which equals 13 hrs a day) We had people print their name and then sign their name on a sign-in sheet, however they left the slots blank where they were suppose to enter their starting and edning time. At the end of the week a couple of people would fill in a bogus amt of hours everyone worked, which equaled about 20 hrs a week! We were taught to lie for Jesus! Tony instructed people to do that, so it must be right! after all he is the anointed and chosen of the Lord! better obey your parents in the Lord!

How many prunes were blow dried!!!! I'm amazed no one got electrocuted by using those blow dryers over those big bins filled with water &amp; soaking wet prunes, laying them on those big screens and then dried the prunes with the blow dryer! What were were thinkin????

Or how many tons of okra got jack hammered! How many rolls of duct tape were used to tape plastic wrap to the brothers who stood inside the bins of frozen okra - jack hammering it apart so that we could bag it back up!

How much steel wool do we have in our lungs from taking the rust of cans by hand using steel wool pads!

What about all the boxes of orange slices we had to sit and pick out tissue,straw and other stuff in order to get those slices ready for bagging candy !! yum yum lol


Now these are some memories!

Did anyone get the pleasure of popping bloated cans??

T. Scarcello king of junk and garbage!

[raining]

ya our wall to wall carpet w/custom made drapes - too bad there was no heat or a/c in those houses.

Oh wait - did i forget to mention that most of the windows didn't open either!

[no_stoppin_me]

Raining, I remember pulling our mattresses out into the living room in front of the fire in the winter so that we could be warm. Then you would wake up all swollen from the heat of the fireplace. Ohhhh the memories, lol

[wilma]

NSM,
I still have it on video tape, the raw footage, when Tony Alamo was doing the Chan 5 interview with Charlie Tygart on the Ridge in 1982. He is showing her in your house at the 10-plex how NORMAL we all are, and he opens the frig and there is NO FOOD...just some ice cubes. What a dumb a$s Tony is!!! What was he expecting? A frig full of food? When we only got $10 bux a week, if we were lucky? Plus, we were not home long enough to cook meals, either, even if we got some food from the cafeteria. Well, you can bet that was edited out of the 5 part series, for sure. LOL

[smitty]

To this day I still feel sick over the shortcuts in the housing we built.Between substituting plate glass for openable windows, no vapor barriers in the walls, and no heating or forced air system it's a wonder they were even marginaly liveable.At one time Tony had an appraiser come up to value the homes on the ridge. He told me that because of the way the homes were built, they were ageing 10 times faster that any normaly constructed home. It was all in the details on weatherstripping, insulation,waterproofing and ventilation.
Sorry to get all technical, but that was my little part of the world at that time.

[rich_hydell]

as far ast the labor payout no it was never paid ...i was to get about 40 k .. more then anyone ..i have all thr paperwork ...another thing that few know that when i left and desided to make a way for my friends and others ...with their kids to leave spearheaded ....so much to know about me and so little time .....lets start a rumer i have aids ...never mind ,,done already ...love is all u need ...peace richard hydell and wrecked ps i tell u what i really have to give tony propper ..never paying that stuff ,,,,

[rich_hydell]

as far ast the labor payout no it was never paid ...i was to get about 40 k .. more then anyone ..i have all thr paperwork ...another thing that few know that when i left and desided to make a way for my friends and others ...with their kids to leave spearheaded ....so much to know about me and so little time .....lets start a rumer i have aids ...never mind ,,done already ...love is all u need ...peace richard hydell and wrecked ps i tell u what i really have to give tony propper ..never paying that stuff ,,,,

[wilma]

It's true what Rich says....I heard when I was still in the Foundation that Rich had AIDS. Well, it's not true...go figure. Same as Until the Redemption saying that Kathy Wylie died in a hot air balloon accident. Give me a break.....Tony just says all this goofy stuff to his followers to scare people from leaving. Hey, if everyone left then maybe Tony would actually have to get a JOB. Oh yeah, he's tooo old for that. and it's not likely he could support his harem on social security benefits.

For years Tony had me convinced that people like Rich, Griffins, Wylie's, Lou Claude, Millers etc were evil beings. But that is not the case. These people were trying to wake up the people still in the Foundation to the reality that we had been HOOD-WINKED.

It's great to have a forum like FACTNET to get the truth out. We know that people INSIDE the Fnd aren't allowed to read it (except maybe a couple of trusted people who scan it and post for Tony). But, at least when people get out and get curious, they can see for themselves that they have been lied to by Tony for years. When you know the truth, the truth will set you FREE!!!! YEAH!!!!!
SG

[until_the_redemption]

well, miss know it all, (aka Susie Grew) where is Kathy Wiley now. Huh!
you have the mountain of her papers,
cause she can't post them from the burning pit of hell.

[no_stoppin_me]

And why exactly is Kathy Wiley going to hell???

Lest we forget...

Tony Alamo is a liar
Tony Alamo is a child molestor
Tony Alamo is a pedophile
Tony Alamo is a rapist
Tony Alamo is thief
Tony Alamo is a polygamist

Hmmm, so who is going to hell???

I'm sure I left out some deviant thing that Tony is or has done, but thats a good start anyway.

[rich_hydell]

kathy is not ...not dead or in hell at this moment so how does the song go ..walk on by .. , im looking to do a gospel cd next ...any sugestions on the songs ..i would like to do a couple gary paxton tunes ...

[raining]

Until the redemption-
Looks like you just posted another lie that tony alamo told you

Kathy Willie is not dead nor burning in hell!

I recently saw a picture of her &amp; Don. I must say they looked great,slim with nice tans, eating lunch with their daughter.

to tell a lie is of the devil, and to tell the truth is of the Lord.

Are you angry with us because we tell you the truth.

It is not ok to lie, even if it is to the devil.

Tony Alamo started that false doctrine, that it was okay to lie to the devil. He uses that doctrine to cover up all his deviant and pervert acts of lusts !


So "Until the Redemption" - I have to ask you why do you keep defending Tony Alamo, the world pervert????

Did he promise you one of the little girls to be your wife when they turn 12?

[until_the_redemption]

typical tactics from the former get-out-of-it experts

call the other person a liar and you’ll get out of whatever your guilty of...

Pictures can be altered, any up-to-date person knows that.


Pastor Alamo, I’m sure you’ll remember in the early 1980’s, the so-called “Jesus Seminar,” when a group of cynical, heretical philosophers, historians, and teachers tried to question the authority and deny the deity and majesty of Sovereign Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The claims of Christ are undeniable, unmistakable, and irrefutable!!

I know that is why God inspired you to write “The Messiah.” I’m convinced every Christian should read this book, It is the finest exposition of Christ in prophecy I have ever read!! For His glory alone,
Martin
Omaha, NE

[raining]

: The Commercial Appeal
Article: Alamo Found Guilty of Tax Evasion, Jailed
Date: 06/09/1994

"...U.S. Dist. Judge Jon McCalla ordered Alamo held without bond after a government witness testified that Alamo may have committed bigamy and statutory rape in the past 18 months."

"The Witness, IRS special agent David Kimbrough, quoting one of Alamo's ex-wives, said Alamo took as many as nine wives, mostly teen and some as young as 15 years old. Kimbrough said some of the teenage wives were forced into the church marriages by threats of being thrown out of the church. At least one woman told agents she was forced to have sex with Alamo."

"McCalla said anyone hearing Wednesday's testimony would be concerned due to "the very great control Mr. Alamo has over a great number of people."

"Justice Department attorney Christopher Belcher also pointed out that Alamo was a fugitive between mid-1989 and mid-1991, when he was wanted on several criminal charges. He still faces felony child abuse charges in California, where he is accused of ordering the beating of the child of a follower..."

"Kimbrough said members of Alamo's church told IRS agents that they feared for their own daughters because Alamo recently had begun marrying girls as young as 12, and even suggested that he would marry his own stepdaughter, who is 11..."

"For the jurors, Alamo's testimony worked against him, she said: “He said we were sitting in the building of the church of Satan," in reference to his theory of a one-world church..."

"Among the 40 witnesses called by the government were former followers and three of Alamo's ex-wives who detailed his extravagant spending for himself and his wives."

"An Arkansas banker testified that Alamo alone controlled more than 20 bank accounts in the name of various businesses under the Music Square Church."

"Alamo took the witness stand himself to deny that he had any income in the years in question. He said that as the pastor, he was supported by the church, and that everything he did was to further his ministry."

"He expounded on his theory of a conspiracy by the "Lucifer-worshipping" forces of the Vatican, IRS, FBI, Mafia and the new media, which he said was trying to create a "one-world" church/government to rule the world."

"He invoked the Fifth Amendment 10 times when Belcher asked him whether he had multiple wives, and he denied allegations that he beat children within the group..."

[wilma]

Former members of the Alamo cult that I talk to feel pity towards the people that are still gullible enough to still be at the Foundation under Tony Alamo's diabolical control. But people like Until the Redemption are obviously CHOOSING to be deceived. Even after hearing the truth multiple times:

Raining says "Kathy Willie is not dead nor burning in hell!
I recently saw a picture of her &amp; Don. I must say they looked great,slim with nice tans, eating lunch with their daughter."

Until the redemption responds with "Pictures can be altered, any up-to-date person knows that. "

UTR, you gotta be kidding.
You CHOOSE to be deceived even when the truth is starting you in the face.

Tony Alamo, you are deceiving and being deceived!

by the way, raining, I recently spent some time with Don and Kathy's daughter and she said her MOM and Dad are doing just fine.
SG

[bill_l]

I also was with Don and Kathy's daughter with you wilma and I can attest to the fact and while she was with us she spoke to Kathy from the house. And said they where both doing fine. bill levy

[iasmann]

Hey Bill,

It's good to talk to you too.

Sorry I havn't posted in a while. I was out committing blasphemous acts in the eyes of Tony. Yeah, I went and visited unsaved relatives. My wifes aunt and uncle in the keys. Not only that I was nice to them.

[bill_l]

lol..Good to see the picks on marcels web. Ann looked the same maybe a little thinner and you look the same I would have recognised you on the street Now you are bigger than me oh well God must be prospering you, your son looked good in the pic from iraq. it is a good thing what the survivors of the cult need people to get a glimpse of what the real Toni is like, and some of us got a real look at him go for years and are privy to alot of his stuff. Bill

[no_stoppin_me]

I find it humorous that TA is still feeling threatened by Kathy and Don Wylie. I mean didn't they leave like 30 years ago????

Here is Until's phone call to TA.....

Until..."Tony, What should I post now, those weasels are saying that Don and Kathy are alive"

TA..."Those backsliders"

Until..."O Holy one, what should I post? You know my brain has been sucked out by you. Please tell me, what can I post?

TA..."There, there, my child. Just keep posting those fake letters from the third world countries that don't know of my wicked ways" I am so slick, man!

Until..."Yes, sir Tony, Praise you Tony, Thank you Tony!

[cha_cha]

(Untill) Why do you keep leading people to believe that God inspired T.A. to write the "MESSIAH" book as stated in your last post? So many people know that he is not the author of that book? How do you justify that to all the people that know T.A. did not write it? It seems the more it comes out that T.A. did not write that book, the more you keep posting letters from people thinking T.A. wrote that book. I really don't get why Mr.T.A. does not just confess to people that he really was not the one who wrote that book. Or does he believe he really did write it? That is real sad he can't not just come out with the truth about it. Is'nt he alittle concerned some one might be stumbled from their walk with the LORD if and when they find out that he really did not write that book? Or is it just no big deal to you as long as T.A. gets credit for a book he really did not author. What if that might offend the least of God's chidren? I just do not get it!?

[no_stoppin_me]

Cha Cha, Come now... Why would lying about authoring a book bother him, when all the other perverse things that TA does, does not bother him???

You dont think that TA really cares if he "stumbles" a few souls, now do you???

Lest we forget...

Tony Alamo is a liar
Tony Alamo is a child molestor
Tony Alamo is a pedophile
Tony Alamo is a rapist
Tony Alamo is thief
Tony Alamo is a polygamist

[cha_cha]

I mean that would really bother me to take credit for a book I did not write. I believe it would not be acceptable to alot of peoples conscience. I guess T.A. calls what I am saying straining at a knat, cause look at all the good it is doing for people to read MY MESSIAH book that I T.A. wrote. I always read in my Bible that God hated liers and that He was no respector of persons!??

[cha_cha]

Yea, I suppose you pinned the tail on the <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>, N.S.M. It is pretty sad and sick though.

[hbananna]

I heard from people that left and got in touch with me that I was a prostitute--at the age of 14. I hate to disappoint anyone in the cult but that rumor is not true. At 14 I didn't even know what sex was yet. I think Tony said i was a drug addict to. Why would you say such horrible things about a kid? Clearly Bernie is a bully with a very ugly soul to make up such a hurtful story and tell it to my friends who were the same age.

BTW - anyone know TA's REAL height?

[saved_21570]

4' 10"? (Just a guess.)

[rich_hydell]

i dont like when someone made fun of susie groulx ...and making fun of tony is really the same ..i know how tall he is ..so what ...also i cant stand when people dont face up to their past and do what they can to make people think they were never who they were , i know a lot of pasts ...mine included ...duh ..we should never be ashamed of who we were .. because it made us who we are ....get right with your self before u worrie about anyone else ...including tony ...and sue ...

[rich_hydell]

and im not talking about you hannah bannah ....lolol but the others know who they are ....hanna i hope u and ur family are doing well ....peace rich

[no_stoppin_me]

Yeah, but making fun of TA is so much fun!

[saved_21570]

Well, let's see, I know that Tony's lifters added about 6" to his height. With his lifters I was still taller than him.

I'm only 5' 11 1/2". So maybe 5' 1" or 5' 2" is a better quess. Please, don't tell me you think he was taller than 5' 3 or 4".

I wouldn't want to offend him. He is only a child molesting, raping, sexual deviant. I know perverts have feelings too.

Yours truly, Tom

[iasmann]

Rich,

I agree about making fun of others like Susie Groulx. But Tony is different.

As far as I can recall I'm the first one who mocked him on this website for being short. I don't care about people being short. But he cares about being short. That's why I mock him because he's the one who buys the thousand dollar elevator boots. Being short bugs him.

I admit that I hate and despise him. The Bible commands us to hate evil and Tony is evil. He lied to me bigtime. I spent a lot of years at that cult because I believed him over you and Levy and a lot of others. I believed he was really sincere about serving God and getting the Gospel out. You gave up 8 years. I gave up 25. Years that could have been spent doing something a lot more productive.

My opinion of Tony is that he is absolute scum. He used me and a lot of others just to set up his little empire where he can rape little girls at will and indulge his evil urges whenever he feels like it.

Tony is not just some heretic preacher who's fleecing his flock. It goes far beyond that.
He is a rapist, a child molester, a child abuser, an adulterer, a fornicator, a homo, a liar and a thief. And that's just the short list. He actually plotted to blow up Bennetti's store in Nashville because he was so jealous that Bennetti was in the old Alamo and that he had a successful business.

When someone mocks Susie Groulx they are mocking a fellow human being. Tony resigned from the human race long ago. Mocking Tony is like mocking a cockroach except that cockroaches as vile as they are actually have a place in the balance of nature. They are a creation of God. - Tony is a creation of the Devil. As far as I'm concerned the death of a cockroach is an event to be mourned far more than the death of Tony which I must confess I hope comes soon.

I'm not bitter. I've moved on with my life. But I helped the creep get to where he is today. I actually defended him many times and stuck up for him. I worked day and night to print tracts to defend him and slander others. So I feel obligated now that I have an opportunity through this website to set the record straight. Hopefully the information I post will help to prevent people from joining his cult and being exploited by him like I was. Especially if they have young daughters.

And it is fun mocking Tony. Kind of like singing the wicked witch is dead.

[no_stoppin_me]

As usual, Ian...Well Said!!!!

[rich_hydell]

well now if i knew their was a child molesting,raping,sexual deviant,pervert holding some one i know then i would get theat person away from that sick man or woman ...and their is no way they would live on my street ...believe me ..i only know about what people have told me .. and none of those people were ever touched by him .. at least not their person .the mind is another thing ...so instead of thinking about someones pants size ..i would rather stick to the facts ..just the facts ..i have my feelings u have yours ...but i have never gotten a call from a family member that needed help .other then the orlandos the cannens,ida kitchner, and the bennenitis.now ..if u ask them sweethearts ,well they can tell u about how i act not sit and type,, i can be a real son of a bi**h ...a real loose cannon ..some may say crazy ...but if i got a call from a neighbor or joey ...im their ....thats it .....if ur tom alfred ..remember the powder blue cordaroy suit u traded me .....lolo ..hope all is well with u and family

[bill_l]

Tony as well as all false teachers are about the buisness of their father. They have no compassion , faith, maybe if tony thanked God for healing he wouldn't have had to deal the destruction of his wife. but there job is to lead people away from the love,faith,patience, human kindness but worst of all he did'nt ever treat his brothers and sisters with the respect he would have himself being treated. the bible said to love the Lord your God with all your heart , mind , body and stregneth. And to love your neighbor as you would have people treat and love you. Now our boy berine from jump start acted like the king . When we came to the foundation we asked God for a pastor to teach us Gods word but instead like the children of Israel God gave us a king ie: Saul...we were told lies through out the years each of us where there}}

[saved_21570]

Well said Bill.

[saved_21570]

Rich,

I very vaugely remember that blue suit.

All is well with me and mine. Thanks for asking. Hope you and yours are doing well, also.

Tom Alford

[saved_21570]

Just a few more words about the diminutive "world pastor".

First, like Ian, some of my best friend are short. I did not make Tony the petite, piddling man that he is. God did.

Don't blame me for what God did to him.

He is a teeny, stunted, undersized man, and honestly I would never even have brought it up, but, when Hanana asked, I thought it would be only right to venture a quess. He did lie about her after her family left. I know, because I heard him say she was a drug addict and prostitute myself.

This picayune little shrimp is not afaid to slander a little teenage girl, I think it only right that she should mock his meager stature. His stature in Gods eyes is even less than his pint-sized height with man.

One of the girls that he coerced and intimidated into having sex with him said that he has another microscopic (more private) member of his body. I can't be a wittness to that, but I can wittness that he has limited aerial dimensions that accompany an extremely grandeous delusional ego.

As Ian, I also helped to defend him. I was on countless call in radio programs, and did many newspaper interviews. I said that no children had ever been abused. (At the time I thought that was the truth.) At least making a quess as to Tonys bitty, little, miniature, size isn't sin.

He is a pocket-sized, wee, little bantam.

He is also a brutal oppessor of women. Someone who takes delight in manipulating and destroying the lives of the most innocent and decent people he can take advantage of.

Besides being a cage for vile, unclean spirits, he is also of inconsequential altitude.

I could go on, but for now, I'll bid farewell.

Yours Truly, Tom

[hollydolly]

rich-- whats the deal man? why should you be bothered by what we say about alamo and his ugly short <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>? chill..........if people want to vent, want an outlet this is defiantly the place! lol

[rich_hydell]

ha ha ha ha ha ...ok ..i give up we live in a free world and anyone can say whatever they want ...i was wondering when some one was going to say that ...lolol....just remember im like superman ,truth, justis and the american way ...dont forget my past and then u will know my future ,,,,

[habadasher]

Great post Bill!! Tony was always rude, crude, and tatooed! He never kept what the Word said about the way your suppose to treat your bro. and sisters. I always felt he was OUT OF TOUCH and really did not want to be around him. I was forced to be around him for some time and hated it. He offended me very deeply and ALOT of others. Thanks to everyone for their insight and posts. Fred Schafer

[raining]

Toni was a rude,mocking,name calling, short, insecure lying wanna be leader.

Rich-
I agree with Ian, your stay was around 8 years and during that time toni (Tony Alamo) was kept under Susie's thumb. After Susie was gone Toni was free to do whatever thought came into his ol peverted mind.

Beat chidren bloody with a board

Beat the adults with a belt or board

Take under age virgins and raped them (he called this being his wife)

Changed his doctrine so many times! Have children, don't have children,saturday is the sabbath, ok now it is not!. Don't work on Sunday, Ok you lazy people, get the ox out of the ditch even if it is sunday. Don't cook food on saturdays, now it is okay to cook again on saturdays .. It is ok to drink booze! It's ok to swear - even use the "F" word!

Toni Alamo is a Racist &amp; name caller- here is quote from Toni that I heard

Toni wanted one of the hispanic brothers up to the house, this is how he asked for us to get him up there "Get that fat lazy mexican up here"

By the way he also refers to our African American brethren as "Nig**rs.


You said you left because of things you saw Tony &amp; Sue do. Maybe you could give some details since you were around them so much.

Most of the people inside the foundation really are not around Tony to see him in actiom. They believe all the lies that tony has preached about himself over the pulpit. They really do believe a lie!
Sue B

[bill_l]

Hey Fred you still running the 1/2 mile lol. Toni never applied the word to his life. The bible says it would be better that a millstone be hung around your neck and to be cast into the sea , if you offend one of the least of mine. and for those of us who got saved we were the least of his..tony had never applied the fruits of the spirit to his life or anything from the running of Gods children and church. the bible says in your patience posses your souls. Tony never had compassion or he wouldn't have sent couples that were just married and send them seperate to Bakersfield. Bernie also lacked in Godliness, faith cause if he believed his own lies he fled into hiding and new his word was not Gods word and he was going to pay for some of his sin on this side of eternity. And Rich he is worse then a shrimp but now listen to my reasoning you would be <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> if you were crotch high to everybody you came in touch with. It must have been a vile smell in those elevators know what I mean ...Toni is a pig and one day he will be judged like us all. he has a napoleon complex, you can't talk to him he totally believes a lie . He feels inadeguate as a man so he decides force little girls to have sex with him. he beats them cause he knows most guys could beat that punk into oblivion. them having to face that bald headed with little tufts of a hard platinum over bleached hair. he has lived with all his hundreds of Zombies and they have supported that piece of sh_t. Giving him all their pay checks ,( the funny thing is he has blown millions of his followers on Jokes like does anybody remember Toni having the brothers at the gas station try to sell his susy chocolates what a total joke we lost our shirts then there was the Dallas catoluge which cost the brother millions of dollars. That never really got off the ground now remember we rented out south forke ranch hired the movie stars and photographers them we needed a size runs in the catoluge then pay for the samples to be knocked off, and on and on. even your testimony was a lie . are we not saved by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. Baloney if the word of our testimony also saves us what does that mean for someone who has lied about his...lol...I did the record oldies you can only get through this offer. well Buddy you didn't tell anybody you never paid royalties. and there are legal groups are out there trying to prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law now don't anybody get confused I didn't say persecute. BL

[habadasher]

I was one of the brothers at the gas station working the islands during the candy deal. We also had to try and sell the album he made of love songs. Man, I hated doing that! After pumping their gas, washing the windows (all of them), checking the oil,transmission,water,battery,windshield washing fluid, and checking all the tires air level to proper lbs. in horribly hot weather or sometimes really cold, lastly we had to try and sell an album of Tony's love songs to the customer. It was a big deal to Tony that we sell sell sell them. I did it, but felt like, man, this is too much! We sold that candy too, but I do not remember it real well. I think it started melting, and it would get all mushy.
Bill, no I don't run the half mile no more!! Ha I am going back to Iowa this Sept. (I was asked) for a ceremony at the old track. I still hold the track record there and am at the top of the list. They converted it over to 800 meters and I still have the top regional time in that event. I graduated high school 1970. Remember when Boreck set that race up between me and Al Reid?? He and everybody was shocked cause I smoked him so bad!! I run to the fridge for a cold one every once an awhile! FS

[no_stoppin_me]

Just my opinion.....

I don't think you had to be around Tony to see that he was a liar and a fake. So, just because you weren't a "FUMA" or you didnt work in the "talking" Spec House doesnt mean that you couldnt see the truth.

I was a kid when I realized that Tony had lied. That's really all it took for me. One lie...I didnt have to stay any longer to be convinced.

Doesn't it say somewhere that "The truth will set you free"? I guess it just took longer for some people to see or accept the truth about the lie they were living.

[bill_l]

hey Tom A good to hear from you it has been a while and you actually came to the foundation a couple of months before i did I do remember that Fred I don't believe anyone in the foundation knew how fast you where but seeing we were neighbors I got to know you real good lol. oh and NSM your speach has showm me who you are and I know you very well hehehehe Bill}

[no_stoppin_me]

My speech??? I never hid who I was. No one ever came out and asked. I am not ashamed of who I am nor of my opinions.

And I think you had some help in figuring out my identity, am I right?

[bill_l]

I never thought you hid who you were it is just the fact that I had been reading on line for months and couldn't figure out who you were for a while. if I were you I would never be ashamed of who you are or you opinions.So with that I will leave you with this.
I believe -
..that just because two people argue, it doesn't mean they don't love each other. And just because they don't argue, it doesn't mean they do.

I believe -
..that we don't have to change friends if we understand that friends change.

I believe -
..that no matter how good a friend is, they're going to hurt you every once in a while and you must forgive them for that.

I believe -
...that true friendship continues to grow, even over the longest distance. Same goes for true love.

I believe -
...that you can do something in an instant that will give you heartache for life.

I believe -
..that it's taking me a long time to become the person I want to be.

I believe -
...that you should always leave loved ones with loving words. It may be the last time you see them.

I believe -
...that you can keep going long after you think you can't.

I believe -
...that we are responsible for what we do, no matter how we feel.

I believe -
...that either you control your attitude or it controls you.

I believe -
.That heroes are the people who do what has to be done when it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences.

I believe -
..that money is a lousy way of keeping score.

I believe -
...that my best friend and I can do anything or nothing and have the best time.

I believe -
...that sometimes the people you expect to kick you when you're down, will be the ones to help you get back up.

I believe -
...that sometimes when I'm angry I have the right to be angry, but that doesn't give me the right to be cruel.

I believe -
...that maturity has more to do with what types of experiences you've had and what you've learned from them and less to do with how many birthdays you've celebrated.

I believe -
...that it isn't always enough to be forgiven by others. Sometimes you have to learn to forgive yourself.

I believe -
...that no matter how bad your heart is broken the world doesn't stop for your grief.

I believe -
..that our background and circumstances may have influenced who we are, but we are responsible for who we become.

I believe -
...that you shouldn't be so eager to find out a secret. It could change your life forever.

I believe -
...two people can look at the exact same thing and see something totally different.

I believe -
.that your life can be changed in a matter of hours by people who don't even know you.

I believe -
...that even when you think you have no more to give, when a friend cries out to you - you will find the strength to help.

I believe -
.that credentials on the wall do not make you a decent human being.

I believe -
... that the people you care about most in life are taken from you too soon.

Your truly
bill

[no_stoppin_me]

Very well said!!!

[rich_hydell]

oh holly ..i forgot to respond to u ....whats the deal ? ..wait a secound dont u live in tonys neck of the woods .when im doing my cd we should have coffie ....huh ...well some people dont get it and if ur one of them well}.. kay sa ra sa ra what ever will be will be the futures not ours u see k sa ra sa ra

[hollydolly]

what do some people not get rich?

[rich_hydell]

some people dont get a lot of things and some people get everything...im sure u get most of what u want ,,as does most fabulesly beautfull woman....hay i sent chris my cd would love o send u one to ...peace

[rich_hydell]

wait a second i cant keep giving them away ...so www.cdbaby.com (http://www.cdbaby.com) www.bandspace.com (http://www.bandspace.com) www.wreckedband.com (http://www.wreckedband.com) or my my space page ....like the rest of my fans ...bye bye holly dolly

[hollydolly]

oh i'm sorry did i say i wanted a cd? aren't we here to talk about alamo?

[rich_hydell]

go to hell ...

[hollydolly]

see ya there!

[rich_hydell]

look dont f with me holly dolly ...ok ...leave it a lone ...or

[hollydolly]

lolololol............yes sir!

[rich_hydell]

ok...my next post will make u hate me ..leave it ..im not in a good mood

[hollydolly]

news flash for the day...........NEITHER AM I!!!!!!!!!!!!! IS YES SIR NOT ENOUGH YOUR MAJESTY?

[christophr19]

Hey Rich,
Listening to your CD right now, thank you, and I owe you one. Really liking it; so far, Heroin is my favourite, but that might change, gotta hear all the rest.
I believe that we are neighbors...how close are we? I live in Wilmington. Are you up for visitors? Don't want to intrude.

[rich_hydell]

chrs ..would love to have u over ...ur about an hour and a half ...glad u like the tunes ...any weekend just give me a call and of course the fanily are welcome.....