A question to the former members of the foundation

[fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)]

Greetings!

I have wondered the following many times, and to avoid being slandered by the mockers and scoffers of this board (you know who you are), I have avoided posting.

But, I will not let them keep me from here, so....onto my question (which might be kind of long....forgive me).

When I finally left the foundation and severed all ties, I vowed I would never again trust TA. Quite frankly among other things, I did not want to expose my newborn daughter to the viciousness that is TA.

But I have a huge trust issue now, regarding anyone who proclaims to be a messenger of God.

See...when I came to the knowledge of the foundation, I did so completely ignorant as to the Word of God, so on. I had had absolutely no teaching or exposure to Christianity in my upbringing/young adulthood. So, everything I was told, heard, etc...., I took as gospel truth, because (I am over being naive now), I thought "Hey, this is a man/woman of God. Trust them. Surely, they wouldn't claim to be something they are not."

Yea..I was trusting. Live and learn.

Then when I realized in late-2001 that I had been duped, it made me question everything. I have literally had to un-learn everything I was told all those years, and begin anew. It's an ongoing process, for which I thank God. His mercy knows no bounds!

But I find it very difficult to trust any other 'pastor' or 'messenger'. I don't want to be duped again, and certainly, do not want my child's mind, heart and soul, to be poisoned. It's enough for us adults to overcome.

So, my question is: for those of you who have gotten out and (PTL), been able to cast aside the oppressive spiritual, physical and emotional chains....how have you overcome? How have you learned to trust again? How did you, if it applies, come to trust again, to take your family to church, yield to the message, and not constantly think to yourself, "Is this on the up and up?"

I have made so many attempts (to go to church, and so on), but truthfully, this whole experience with TA, as limited as it was in comparison to the many examples here, has left me with a sour 'taste' in my mouth.

I remember all those years, how TA would proclaim his was the only 'church' preaching the truth, he being the only true messenger. That has been ingrained into my noggin. As much as I know it is not true at all, and TA is full of alot of hot air and little else....how did those of you, erase all the double-speak from your minds?

When we have ventured to church, I find myself sitting there the entire time, taking mental notes. Checking them against the Word of God, praying "Is this right, Lord?" I can't simply sit there and enjoy/trust the message/experience. For that, I have been called cynical, religious by church clergy and others. I don't just go with the flow. I question it.

How did you get past it, and learn to live (for God) again?

Thank you for your kind replies, and God bless you.

Love in Christ Jesus...
fooled_no_more/Wanda B.

[rezleok (rezleok)]

Hi Wanda and Greetings to you too!

I don't have time right now, but will come back later in more detail to share with you and everone how I, and Bro. Dave Koelzer, dealt with the past. Bro. Dave is now in paradise enjoying all the fruits of his labor. He really loved the Lord and was very devoted to HIM. We kept the Lord in our lives. We left the cult but didn't leave the Lord.

Bottom line, we realized that the Word of God is our guide and that we have no need that man should teach us anything for the "Holy Ghost" will teach us all things. He did, and still does.

We knew we were washed in the blood of the Lamb and that geography had nothing to do with whether we had our salvation or lost it.

We knew that it was a gift from God, not Tony Alamo, and we knew and were persuaded that He, not Tony Alamo, is able to keep that which we have committed unto Him against that day. We just simply believed the Word of God.

We just stood on that scripture and many more uplifting and encouraging Words from the Lord.

One that we loved to stand on was Psalm 145:17, and we loved to read Psalms and Proverbs. Books that we always got/still get much encouragment and strength and peace from.

"The Lord is nigh unto all them call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth."

Tony Alamo does not have a monoply on the Spirit of God, nor do any of his followers, contrary to what they think. If they would just really listen to the Word of God instead of just quoting it in defence of their weird doctrines. They orient the whole Word of God around their perverse beliefs, and I say "they" because they are all guilty by association. The Lord said come out from among them and be ye separate, touch not the unholy thing.

I am going to come back later with a lot more but, for right now, here is another scripture that the Lord gave us when we were trying to get past the former confusion, oppression and abuse.

"Come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke (not TA's) upon you and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart (is TA or is he haughty and arrogant?) and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

It's not a greivous thing to serve the Lord.

I have a lot more to say. And thank you for starting this thread. It was a very good idea Wanda. Many can get on here and attest to the victory they have in Jesus even though they are not at Phony Almighty's cult. Our allegiance was to the Lord Jesus Christ always and when TA failed the Lord and lost everything that we had worked for all those years, we still had our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Just because Tony changed doesn't mean the Lord changed. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Hallelujah!

As far as churches go, there are no perfect churches, including TA's cult. You have to ask the Lord to lead on that and, like you said, you have to continually line it up with the Word of God. Personally, Dave and I home churched, shared the gospel with others, read and prayed and continued to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. It all boils down to God's mercy and interaction with us on a daily basis. All I can say is that I'm sure glad our Lord is sitting on the Throne and not TA.

God Bless you too Wanda and your wonderful family.

Love, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Bro. Geo. McCluer, aka Mac

[wilma (wilma)]

Wanda,
You are asking real questions here and I think there may be as many different answers to your question as people who take the time to reply. I can only speak for myself and my own experience. My family and I left the Foundation in 1996. For a short time I still listened to Tony's message tapes. We started attending a local Ft Smith church and since this church was similar in doctrine to the Fnd, it wasn't a huge leap. I was ministered to there and was amazed at the lack of craziness (of which I was accustomed to at the Fnd). When we moved to Florida we attended other churches sporadically. I stayed in touch with ex-members and we all sorted things out together as we listened to each others stories (no wonder Tony tried to scare us from communicating with each other).

During this time 97-98 I started reading books about spiritual abuse. Wanda, PLEASE read these books. These books explained to me EXACTLY what I had experienced at the Foundation and WHY. Reading these books was the beginning of FREEDOM in Christ for me. Like you, I had to unlearn many things I had been taught at the Foundation that I thought were the gospel truth.

I didn't want to ever be involved with another church where the pastor "called the shots" and was looked up to as ABOVE the rest of the people. When you give someone this kind of power, it just goes to their head.
Instead, when we moved to Tampa in '99, we got involved with a home fellowship of people that really loved the Lord. There were about 50 of us who met in each others homes. Lots of young people. We were a vibrant expression of the Lord's church. I learned so much about God's mercy and grace and it was a time of real spiritual healing in my life. Unfortunately, a couple of years into it, this leader started to be manipulative and controling. (In 2001 I went to Wellspring Retreat.) Well, by this time, I am spiritually educated and not naive and gullible....We and many others left this group. It was a heartbreaking experience but I knew it was the right thing to do. It was a lesson to me that spiritual abuse can happen in a large OR small group.

I do not currently attend any church (that could always change). But, I have many Christian friends that I associate and fellowship with regularly.

Wanda you said, " When we have ventured to church, I find myself sitting there the entire time, taking mental notes. Checking them against the Word of God, praying "Is this right, Lord?" I can't simply sit there and enjoy/trust the message/experience. For that, I have been called cynical, religious by church clergy and others. I don't just go with the flow. I question it."

Wanda, I think that you are wise to be on your guard when attending any church. And if anyone gives you a hard time about it, I would leave. We should be able to question anything we feel like. We aren't supposed to leave our critical thinking skills at the door, like what was encouraged at the Alamo Foundation.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying.....I do think there are many wonderful Christian people and some good churches and pastors. Unfortunately, there are a lot of spiritual abusers too. That's why it says in the Bible to be on guard.

You asked about learning to trust again. People have to EARN my trust....and that is a process and takes time.

I hope by my sharing you will see that you are not alone. I am secure in my salvation and in my walk with the Lord. I know God loves me. And I love Him and His people. I love those that are in the Foundation that are in bondage to the lies and deception of Tony Alamo. Jesue came to set the captives FREE, to give sight to the blind.......and we know that the men and women in the Fnd are blinded by false teachings.

Wanda, I wish you peace in your journey. Say Hi to Richard.
Susie Groulx

[rezleok (rezleok)]

Wanda

Another thing I wanted to mention. Why do we always remember things after we post? lol

Dave and I acknowledged the Lord in all things, because we stood on that scripture too. He promised if we would do that He would direct all of our paths.

So many, many times we felt such a great outpouring of His Spirit when we would sing, pray, listen to gospel music, give each other our testimonies.

He gave us a great job, and a great boss who loved Dave and me. Dave generated $3 million dollars for the company over the 9 years he worked there. Also, our boss benefited from our testimony in front of her, whose daughter I am also currently teaching flute.

He gave us our house through much prayer (that was a miracle I will have to share sometime). He healed us many, many times when we prayed over each other.

They are always referring to us as "disgruntled backsliders." I don't think God would pour out His Spirit on backsliders except to deal with them to come back to HIM.

The point: I have felt the Spirit and the Comforter so many times during my 14 years with Brother Dave Koelzer and have so much since he went to be with the Lord. God doesn't share that kind of outpouring with disgruntled backsliders.

Again, God Bless and keep you!

George/Mac

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

So many of us have done different things to get past the cruelty of TA but the answer is still always the same ...simply Jesus. Dig in and soak up. Sometimes learning to not trust man so much is a good thing, but not when it gets you to a critical viewpoint that you cant forgive others faults and mistakes, and anything people do seems to be wrong. Then you are simply not trusting Jesus. He was that simple answer for me, just moving closer, praying more. I found a prayer group that met early in the morning everyday and we all sought God together. He has done some wonderful healing in me. I still make mistakes but Ive learned that He will straighten it out in me and i can trust Him to. The word faith in the concordance means TRUST. It also has another very important word. WAIT. This is the hard part I think most would agree. It is a major part of trusting Him to wait on Him and His answers for us. But thats another thing that praying more does , soaks you in that love and it becomes easier and easier to wait. The fear of failing fades away. You depend more on Him for your nature and less on you. It will come natural in the Spirit.When Larry left most know I was pregnant with my last child at the time. We had no income and TA wanted to make sure we squirmed. Larry was still part of the foundation , so he stole Jodys high school diploma so she would have a hard time working to help. God led her to the right person though, and they hired her imediately and took her under their wings. When the baby was old enough I went back to Hill company and got a job. He was 6 weeks old. Its been a rough road but God has let me know Hes been there all the way and will never leave.
I think I need to pull back a little...starting to get a little lengthy with my posts...lol
Carol Fryer

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

George, when my youngest was about 5, I decided to go take a break. So I called a babysitter to stay with the kids and went with a group of women up to Prayer Mountain to seek God. I was desperate to hear from Him.
Well, while I was there I got a call , there was a fire and the house was destroyed. I began weeping and crying. The woman who owned Prayer Mountain was there. God gave her the blueprint to build that place. She said God was telling her to tell me not to be afraid. He was going to meet all my needs through the fire. This was but only a blessing in disguise.
We ended up living with my son in a one room apartment for 6 months. The contractor let us rent one of his apartments when johns landlord didnt want us there anymore....lol....john , me , and 3 kids.
Someone had called human services to get involved. Im not sure why. But the lady that came was amazing. She got Josiah into Bost in one day when I had been trying for a whole year. I also ended up with central heat and air in the house and carpeting through the whole house and they tore out my walls and insulated them. There wasnt any insulation in the walls before. So many wonderful things came out of that fire. God is amazing and really does turn all things around for our good. Praise God.And yes, God doesnt do that for backsliders.
Carol Fryer

[wilma (wilma)]

Here are some great books that were instumental in me understanding the TRUTH about the Alamo Foundation and my experience there:

Healing Spiritual Abuse...How to break free from Bad Church Experiences by Ken Blue

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse...Recognizing and escaping spiritual Manipulation and False Spiritual Authoriy Within the Church by David Johnson & Jeff VanVonderen

Captive Hearts, Captive Minds...Freedom and Recovery from cults and Abusive Relationships
by MadeleineTobias and Janja Lalich

Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan

If you can't find these books in a local book store, most stores will order them for you. Also, you can find them online at half.com at a discounted price.

Susie G

[wilma (wilma)]

Here are a few more titles that have good information in them:
Recovery From Cults...Help for Victims of Psychological and Spiritual Abuse (many authors/contributors) Edited by Michael Langone

Churches That Abuse by Ronald Enroth

Recovering From Churches That Abuse by Ronald Enroth

Damaged Disciples by Ron Burks

God's Brothel by Andrea Moore-Emmett
(The extortion of sex for salvation in contemporary Mormon and Christian fundamentalist polygamy, and the stories of 18 women who escaped)

The book, God's Brothel, will give you an in-depth look at the realities of polygamy. TommyRichards aka "alamo supporter" stated, "as far as 12 year olds getting married, they go out and commit fornication and have begun to be women at that age. I would think it would be a torment to not let them marry and bring sin upon them. "
and
"poligamy is oppressive to women? how do you know that? if a woman doesn't like it she doesn't have to do that. "
Tommy R, that is not true and you know it. Tony Alamo threatens these girls with eternal damnation if they do not obey him and become his sex partners. Jody and Tami have both given first-hand testimony of that on this message board. I have heard Tony state this with my own ears. Why don't you admit you are just as deranged as Tony Alamo? There is hope for you, however. Why don't you ask God to open your heart? To show you if what we are saying is indeed true? You might be surprised by what God shows you.
Susie G

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

hell was made for tony alamo and his dumbass followers like alamosupporter!i understand the people who followed that man back in the day but at this point there is no excusing these grown men and woman standing around watching tony perv out! the young woman who are the victims here even though they can <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> me off as well they are not accountable at this point but the rest of u alamo supporters-------there is only eternal damnation

[smitty (smitty)]

Hi Wanda! I guess that having trust issues is pretty much common to all of us. I'm a little bit unusual in that I was saved before I found out about the foundation so living as a christian "outside" was easier for me to imagine. I was able to have a "soft" landing in that I was back with my parents and the church I grew up in. For the longest time however, I went to church rarely. Almost every time I went, someone would use a phrase or word that would just set off alarm bells in my head, and I would just have to get out and stay away. I was able to spent a lot of time with Dr. Ron Enroth who attends our church and is a family friend. Meeting with him and my minister really helped my get past my fears.I am very thankful to God for the help He gave me. The important thing I think was to still keep the critical thinking going in conjunction with my own personal walk with the Lord. It sounds like your doing good even with all the hurdles. Praying for you and all the rest of us......Tom Smith

[saved_21570 (saved_21570)]

Simply Jesus, dig in and soak it up. WOW ! What a perfect answer.

That is it in a nutshell.

George, you have had some great posts. Been a long time. " God will not pour out his Spirit on a vessal that does not belong to him."

Love in Christ, Tom

[double_j (double_j)]

The Chinese, though most are small, they are very wise. Below are a few of my favorite Chinese proverbs. I think they fit perfectly with your question.


1. Deep doubts, deep wisdom; small doubts, little wisdom.

2. He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever.

3.Examine what is said, not him who speaks.

and FINALLY

4. Keep five yards from a carriage, ten yards from a horse, and a hundred yards from an elephant; but the distance one should keep from a wicked man cannot be measured.

[summer4ever (summer4ever)]

double_j,

I love those http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Oh, so true, and so simply stated...

Jody

[fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)]

Thank you everyone, for your wisdom! It has certainly helped me to remember, the reason I am a Christian, is to serve God, not man.

I need to remember Psalm 118:8! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

I love those double_j!

Always, God bless you and keep you, everyone.


P.S. Richard says hello. (He doesn't think anyone will remember him. haha)

[fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)]

I just wanted to add that I will be getting Richard and I those books you mention, Susie G.

Simply Jesus....Dig in and soak it up! (I love that!) http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

God bless each of you, abundantly!

[rezleok (rezleok)]

Hi Carol

Great to see you here! I have enjoyed reading all your posts. I love your walk with God. Simply Jesus...Dig in and soak it up! What a wonderful way to put it. And boy, our Jesus is an inexhausible source, isn't HE? I love Him more and more every day. I wouldn't last a second without Him, nor would I want to.

He's the source of our joy, peace, comfort, strength, healing, power, wisdom, He's our Redeemer, Friend, Counsellor, our Prince of Peace, our Everlasting Father, our Mighty God, our King of kings and Lord of lords. He's our Bright and Morning Star, our High Priest, our Good Shepherd, our Cornerstone, our DELIVERER, our Bread of Life, our HOLY GHOST, our Holy Spirit, our Emmanuel, our Living Waters, our Rose of Sharon and, most of all our Messiah and Savior of our souls. I'm sure I left some things out.

I love to lift up His Name for He only is worthy.

Thanks for sharing that about the fire in your house and how the Lord turned it all around and all those blessings that came because of it. Isn't that just like our wonderful God, to not only restore our every need, but, to give us even more than we had before. That was kind of like a Job experience for you, wasnt it? It rejoiced my heart to read that post.

I'm glad you're aboard Carol. Your contributions here are very encouraging, uplifting and compassionate. We're all striving to be just like our Lord Jesus. I believe it won't be long before we will all be saying these things to Him in person. Even so come quickly, Lord Jesus.

Love in Christ,

Geo/Mac

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

hello all,

--When we have ventured to church, I find myself sitting there the entire time, taking mental notes. Checking them against the Word of God, praying "Is this right, Lord?" I can't simply sit there and enjoy/trust the message/experience. For that, I have been called cynical, religious by church clergy and others. I don't just go with the flow. I question it.--

Mrs. B. I do the same thing. I used to feel bad about it, and wonder if I was missing out on wonderful messages. Then I saw in the word, that Jesus tells us to try the spirits, and to line up what we are told with the word. I beleive that is what keeps us from being duped.
I guess I see it as being vigilant and trusting in God instead of trusting in a person who claims to be "gods messenger" I have found that the more I compare them to God's word, it strengthens my personal relationship with Jesus, and keeps me from falling for tony alamos in training.


--Bottom line, we realized that the Word of God is our guide and that we have no need that man should teach us anything for the "Holy Ghost" will teach us all things. He did, and still does.

Amen Mr. Mac!

[summer4ever (summer4ever)]

Christophr19, Good to have you back http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

i don't go to church...........church is scary going to church is a man-made cultlike behavior that has allowed people like tony alamo to become so controlling in the first place.

[neasie (neasie)]

Hiya

I personally do not go to church. I believe in God, but I do not believe that God is confined to 4 walls of a building. Think of me what you will...I really don't care anymore. I am not here to please anyone...I am here to reconnect with the "kids" that I am bonded with forever. I know for sure that Tony Alamo is NOT a man of God. I didn't learn that in church or from a book. I learned it from lots of therapy, and support. I wish you all well...

Neasie(Denise)

[rezleok (rezleok)]

Agreed. Jesus said, Where two or more are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst. That can be in a living room, in a corn field or on a street corner.

Geo/Mac

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

God never set up church in a building.
God never set up one person to rule another.
Man always sets up churches, kingdoms, boundaries. God's house is limitless. The universe can not hold him, yet he chooses to live in our hearts. I will sing of God's wonder and love, with all of the creations of heaven!
Every living thing in creation gives praise to God's glory. Why would I ever confine myself to a pew, in a windowless building, made of stone and dead wood; when all around me the earth sings the praises of God? God created the trees, and man tore them down to make pews and buildings in "His" name. God created Man and asked that we be His vessels, for His Spirit; man kills, maims, rapes, and plunders those temples in the name of god.
You tell me, why is it so important to sit in a church and listen to a man drone on for hours (or in tonys case years) when the Spirit of God can reach in and in a heartbeat, witness to my soul? My church service started the moment I took breath, and will never end; Because when I die I will be in heaven giving glory to God for eternity.
I say let them have their buildings of man, I will worship in the universe that God has put me in.

[fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)]

A great big thank you to every one of you who replied.

God bless you and keep you.

From our home to yours,
Wanda B./fooled_no_more

[rezleok (rezleok)]

Amen Chris! Welcome back friend. Good talking with you on the phone. Hope you are getting settled in your new home and that you will be happy. From the sound of your very uplifting post, it's sounds like you are. You sound full of victory.

I loved your post. There's victory in Jesus, and in Him only, not in some bleak, cold architectural structure sitting on a corner. The Lord calls them whited sepulchres full of dead men's bones.

Not that you can't worship in a building, we're not saying that here. You know that where ever two of God's sincere people, who really love Him in truth and in Spirit get together, well there's a church right there.

Brother Dave Koelzer and I used to go out into our beautiful back yard and "sing of God's wonder and love, with all the creations of heaven" as you said. He said "Let everything that hath breath, Praise ye the Lord." Even the trees and mountains praise him, the Word says. What a wonderful and awesome God we have.

I am so glad that I am not so involved with this life that I can't look up and behold the beauty and glory of the Lord and his beautiful creation, the earth, the stars and the whole universe. They truly do declare His glory and majesty.

We get fed every time we read His Word. The HOLY GHOST is a much better teacher than any man.
The Bible clearly says we don't need them to teach us.

The Lord teaches us from His Word, through our interaction with other people, through nature, through His wonderful Spirit that he speaks to our hearts with, through our trials, through our vision.

The Lord is ALWAYS uplifting and encouraging. He doesn't flip flop and change His rules. When we make a mistake He doesn't call us devils and weasels and other name calling we see on this board from Phony and his worshippers. That's all Phony ever did and still does, I'm sure. So we know that's not the Lord.

Lastly, but not least, as you said God doesn't rape, molest, physically abuse, mentally abuse, spiritually abuse and plunder his children and then cast them aside like some dirty rag. He promises to never forsake or leave us, and, as Brother Tom Alford said, "He never fails us."

I don't see the alamo worshippers coming on here and posting anything uplifting. The only thing they uplift is Phony Alamo. They talk more highly of him than they do of Almighty God. It shows where their allegiance is.

Again, good to have you back again Chris.

Mr. Mac

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

THANK YOU Mr. Mac!
I can't think of anything to add, that would make what you said better. I guess you could say that I am almost speechless (no small feat)
Good to be back, you all can't know how much I have missed being on here and talking to you all.
Tophr

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

why u crazed speechless fool! lololol

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

who you callin crazy? Batch!

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

yo mama lol

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Hey Cuz!
guess what I am doin'
Wish you were here, so we could hang out.
Tina, Jayden and I all miss you.

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

HEY TOPHR I LOVE YOU MAN
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU AND YOURS
MEMBER WHEN YOU TRIDE TO SHOW ME YOUR TAE KWON DO
AND I KICKED YOU IN THE NUTS LOLOLOLOLOL
I GUESS YOU OWE ME ONE
WHAT HAPPENED TO HOLLYWOOD I THOUGHT YOUD BE A STAR
IM SURE YOU HAVE SOME STORIES pray tell
eo

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

OH ****e! I totally forgot! That was funny, I remember at the time I was all <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>, cuz my lame-azz taekwondo didn't work. I didn't realize till later, it was only because I was a bit of a pacifist and could never really put my heart into the fighting part. Haha, oh well, live and learn.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif
about Hollywierd....yeah, I gots stories alright.
I did go, and I even started acting. I was an extra in quite a few movies y'all probably saw. You just gotta look real hard to see me. But I realized that I didn't want to be an actor, they all seemed miserable! And why would I want that? I had a great time in LA, time I will never forget.

[electricguy (electricguy)]

Well as much as I enjoy reading (most) of your posts I must reply to Holdol 27. Church was never intended to be a building or to be limited to the concept of a building. The church the Bible is talking about is us. The born again believers who have accepted Jesus as our Lord, (not a man or woman). We as the body of Christ in this earth are to pray for one another, edify one another and help one another to seek Him and follow his ways according to the BIBLE and not a man's teaching. But I believe the Lord instituted the concept of assemblying together so we could find help and support among other members and one very important reason, the Lord said if you can't love your brother who you can see then how can you love God who you cannot see? Church is where we learn to put into practice what the Bible is teaching us. Iron sharpen Iron. We actually need each other for growth and protection.
Keep up the good posts.
Many of you may not remember me but I can't forget all of you.
God bless you all
John Whitman

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

all i'm saying is the "kids" perception of going to church is propbably pretty warped considering our upbringing...........i'm sure there are people that benefit from attending church and gathering with other christians but it certainly doesn't mean that those of us that don't attend a church service are condemned to hell.i'm not here to argue this point because you just can't understand until you were a kid raised from birth in the alamo foundation. plain and simple

[saved_21570 (saved_21570)]

John,

It's great to hear from you! I got you your book, and have wanted to thank you for it. The chapter on grace was particularly edifying. Transposition. That is the first definition I have ever heard that bore witness as being complete. I have passed that along to a lot of other bro/sis.

God bless, In Christ Jesus our Lord, Tom Alford

[electricguy (electricguy)]

Holly;
I did not want you to think that I was coming against you for what you said. You're right I can't know what you kids went through or feel the pain you feel or be able to understand what you think about church as an organized religion. I only wanted you to hear what the idea of church was instituted for and to consider that a church is supposed to be a place where you can get love and support no matter what you are going through because the people there are supposed to give themselves to helping others. That is what the BIBLE teaches. Church is not a place where people are to judge others or look down upon others but to esteem others as better than themselves. You kids have my compassion and prayers because you have suffered much at the hands of a very evil person.
Keep going and God bless you

[electricguy (electricguy)]

Holly;
I did not want you to think that I was coming against you for what you said. You're right I can't know what you kids went through or feel the pain you feel or be able to understand what you think about church as an organized religion. I only wanted you to hear what the idea of church was instituted for and to consider that a church is supposed to be a place where you can get love and support no matter what you are going through because the people there are supposed to give themselves to helping others. That is what the BIBLE teaches. Church is not a place where people are to judge others or look down upon others but to esteem others as better than themselves. You kids have my compassion and prayers because you have suffered much at the hands of a very evil person.
Keep going and God bless you

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Like Holly said, it is hard to understand what being a kid raised in the foundation really means. As I have said on this board before, the adults who were there, chose to go there. They chose to give up their lives and follow something that they thought was right.

Most of the kids (I dont speak for all) did not have "supernatural" experiences with God. We just lived our lives the only way we knew how. It was all we knew.

So, as far as going to church, alot of the "kids" have a "been there, done that" attitude. We have seen what "church" is all about and to that we say "no, thanks"

When I first left the church, I went to a Catholic Church mostly just to see what all the hoopla was, that I had learned all my life. I was expecting some sort of voodoo and foreign languages, etc. To my surprise it was quite nice. Yes, alot of rituals, etc., but hey at least you didnt have to sit there for 3 hours listening to some boring tape and watch people all over "nodding out".

"Church" is in your heart, not in a building!

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

yes church is "suppose" to be a place where people can gather together and support one another in God.........but the facts are that alot of churches are very cult-like......i've been to plenty here in the "bible belt" in fact the most profitable businesses around here are banks,churches,walmart and restaraunts.

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

yes church is "suppose" to be a place where people can gather together and support one another in God.........but the facts are that alot of churches are very cult-like......i've been to plenty here in the "bible belt" in fact the most profitable businesses around here are banks,churches,walmart and restaraunts.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Amen to what you said Cuz!
Bars and liquor stores on one side, and churches on the other. When they get out of church, they can roll their oversized butts into their fancy cars (that god "blessed" them with, because they prayed the prayer of jabez) and race on down to their favourite restaurant, where all of the servers dread their coming (because most church people, as a group, are the rudest patrons, and the worst tippers) and after they stuff themselves and display the worst testimony of christianity; they then roll on over to Walmart. Where they buy everything they don't need, but their overindulged flesh has an urging for.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Amen to what you said Cuz!
Bars and liquor stores on one side, and churches on the other. When they get out of church, they can roll their oversized butts into their fancy cars (that god "blessed" them with, because they prayed the prayer of jabez) and race on down to their favourite restaurant, where all of the servers dread their coming (because most church people, as a group, are the rudest patrons, and the worst tippers) and after they stuff themselves and display the worst testimony of christianity; they then roll on over to Walmart. Where they buy everything they don't need, but their overindulged flesh has an urging for.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

I am speaking as as Server, having been in the restaurant business for about ten years. Sunday mornings were the least deisrable shifts to pick up. Because when the church crowd showed up, it got really crazy busy and patrons got really impatient, griping and complaining about everything, and especially about how come someone got served before them. And after that whole fiasco of a meal, they would leave little or sometimes nothing as a tip. Its amazing to me to see how people treat those that serve them....imagine if it was Jesus serving them in disguise?

[electricguy (electricguy)]

That's funny Christopher, because I know you just gave a pretty good description of a lot of church people. It seems the non-denominational ones are the worst too. My daughter also worked for years in a restaurant and tells the same story. Too bad they don't realize what they are doing to the purpose of the Gospel. Like I said people are SUPPOSED to act like Jesus taught but most people these days are too into themselves to really know or care how to treat others. But all that doesn't change the Word of God or what he expects from those who really believe in him.
John

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

John,
Denominations start out as an apposing of something in the stream line church as wrong. They start out ok then slowly the embers die out and they become luke warm and turn into the same thing they apposed. It has happened with most of the denominations and nondenominations. God put it as forgetting Him. Many Organizations built on 2 or 3 verses in the bible and the rest pushed to the rear. We have some who focus just on baptising. We have some who focus on dancing. We have some who focus on Jesus mother. We have some who focus on the words of another proclaimed prophet to change the words of the Savior. We have most turning from Spirit to man. Loosing focus on the One , the only One who can change and save them inside out. Merry Christmas and may God give us all grace to chase the Pearl of Great Price.
Carol Fryer

[smitty (smitty)]

Dear Carol: What you are saying is a great oversimplification of other denominations. Yes a lot of churches at the national leadership level have let leftist politics replace the Word of God. but that doesn't mean that every congregation in that denominaton is lost. Let's take the Presbyterianism for example. If you are looking at the Presbyterian Church of the U.S.A. (P.C.U.S.A.) there are a host of things that need to be thrown out and corrected. be assured, there are a lot of God-fearing in that church fighting to do just that. In addition there are a number of other Presbyterian churches that do not affiliate themselves with the P.C.U.S.A. and do stick to God's Word and the infallability of scripture. My own church home here in Santa Barbara does a lot of evangilization both here, in Mexico and in Turkey.

I think the main fallacy here is that in order for some new group to gain legitimacy, it has to denounce all others as "backslidden" The Foundation does it, Joseph Smith did it, Sun Moon does it, Jim Jones did it, ect. ect. Rather than just denounce them all as bad, maybe you should look a little deeper into their history. John Knox, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Huss,John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards and Cotton Mather weren't lukewarm, they were men of God.

Sorry if I rattled on to much here, but after some of the previous posts I feel the need to stand up for some of the old standard Protestant denominations

[electricguy (electricguy)]

Tom;
Good observation, there is truth that at the local level you will find many churches that truly care about people and following the Word of God. And if you are going to list great Christians from the past have a look at the writings of E W Kenyon, John G Lake, Smith Wigglesworth and others who not only lived what they preached and taught but had mighty healing ministries. The truth is there are many real Christian ministers who hold to the Word of God and live it. Unfortunately there also are so many who use the name of Christianity and yet their lives are a turn off to those who see it. I know what Christopher has seen and would venture to say most of us have seen the same thing, but what we have seen is the failure of man not the character of God. The Bible has not changed and God has not changed, people just have a hard time learning to follow it. Shame isn't it. Then there are those like TA who are immoral, perverted, and criminal. Quite a variety of people who call themselves Christian isn't it. They can sit in a garage and call themselves a Cadilac but that won't make them one.
I give my love and encouragement to those of you who recognized the difference between what the Bible said and what you saw at the foundation. Keep going with what you know and always hold to the truth of the Bible, it really works.
John

[electricguy (electricguy)]

Carol;
Don't judge all Christian ministries and denominations by the obvious errors you have seen. If you keep looking you will find those who hold dear the truths of the Bible, teach it and live it. Yes the denominational churches have a long and varied history, much of it not good, but in those large organizations are individuals who truly are sincere in their efforts to follow His ways.
Again I want to ask you great young adults, who were formerly the foundation kids, if you can trust one of the older members who left long before most of you grew up to help you. I would like to write your stories and get them published to force the authorities into action. I believe if we show that they had enough to take action and didn't that they wouldn't like the public attention and reaction. Let's let the world know what is going on and shame them into action. I believe I have the talent in writing to be of assistance to you guys, how about it.
Bless you guys
John
e-mail me at: john_whitman@msn.com

[sjway (sjway)]

Hey John -good to see you here too (of course I'm only 2 hours or so from you)-but really I would like to make a recommendation to Wanda and anyone else looking for a church- I have never been threatened or intimidated in any way by doctrinal questioning of pastors and elders at either Christian Missinary Alliance Churches or Free Methodist Churches. And both have lots of fruit on the tree all around the world. Perhaps we are not called to judge but we can be " fruit inspectors."
Also Chris , Neasie and others you need connection with a body of believers and they won't be perfect- but no one is. The problem with T.A. is he's not connected to any accountability.
Merry Christmas to all my old friends- if you'd like to see a Brit classic rocker( It alked to him in Oregon recently) who's a Christian singing carols with his family go to www.stevewinwood.com (http://www.stevewinwood.com)
Love to all of you-
Simon and Janet and family

[electricguy (electricguy)]

Hello all and Merry Christmas;
I have been getting some e-mails and also from reading the posts one thing is apparant. Many of you still have family in the foundation and don't want to say who you are to protect them from reprisals. My wife and I have discussed this and I have nothing to fear and no one still there to protect so if it becomes possible to go through a public forum to expose TA we are willing to be the ones out in front of the public and keep private any source of information that feels they need to keep unknown. This is not a light decision as I know the power of the intimidation there at the foundation. But as I said, I have nothing to fear and we are ready to do what we can to help. Let me know if you would like my help and give me ammunition to take before the public if there are those of you willing to take action now to put an end to the damage TA is doing to young lives and the Gospel.
Merry Christmas and Lord Bless you.
John

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

testing

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

you guys really should broaden your horizons.
take a look around you everyone dies. you only
have one life to live. are you truly doing what you want? or what you've been taught your whole life. every church ive been to (plenty) is regurgitating the same messages over and over.
do you know what hell really is? its repetition.
do you really know what heaven is. its not a place its a state of being. you bring it with you where ever you go. why do you think jc said to enter into heaven you have to become like a child. its because children are perfect, and are in heaven. we through our sucking of habitual misinformation have cast ourselves from the garden of eden. and we pull our children out of there to join us in our wandering in the desert. but u know what? the kingdom of heaven is within u and me and each of us but weve forgotten that and only see the negative. the kingdom of heaven is at hand !!!! this means its in the eternal present, right now, right now, right here. and its inside you. so the kingdom of heaven is now and inside of you so its not in the sky. try practicing a true present if you want to really embodie this knowledge. all the knowledge in the world doesnt do a thing if you dont act on it.

i have a question for any of you
if you are a son or daughter of god
and your supposed to be godly
then why deny that you are god of your reality?
realizing this forces one to take responsibility for oneself and cancels out the need to judge others because you realize that you are going to die and this right now is your chance to go as far as you can.
so play nice and stop living a contradiction
goat bless you
lmao

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

you guys really should broaden your horizons.
take a look around you everyone dies. you only
have one life to live. are you truly doing what you want? or what you've been taught your whole life. every church ive been to (plenty) is regurgitating the same messages over and over.
do you know what hell really is? its repetition.
do you really know what heaven is. its not a place its a state of being. you bring it with you where ever you go. why do you think jc said to enter into heaven you have to become like a child. its because children are perfect, and are in heaven. we through our sucking of habitual misinformation have cast ourselves from the garden of eden. and we pull our children out of there to join us in our wandering in the desert. but u know what? the kingdom of heaven is within u and me and each of us but weve forgotten that and only see the negative. the kingdom of heaven is at hand !!!! this means its in the eternal present, right now, right now, right here. and its inside you. so the kingdom of heaven is now and inside of you so its not in the sky. try practicing a true present if you want to really embodie this knowledge. all the knowledge in the world doesnt do a thing if you dont act on it.

i have a question for any of you
if you are a son or daughter of god
and your supposed to be godly
then why deny that you are god of your reality?
realizing this forces one to take responsibility for oneself and cancels out the need to judge others because you realize that you are going to die and this right now is your chance to go as far as you can.
so play nice and stop living a contradiction

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

false prophet------------so where do we go when we die? if heaven is now, how we live our lives........do we just rot in the ground? what then would be the purpose of being here and striving to be Godly and pure? Are you really trying to tell all of us that all we have is here and now? if so lets just put a bullet in our heads now!!!!!!

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

BECAUSE GUESS WHAT PEOPLE CAN FLY. YOUR BIBLE TELLS YOU SO. JESUS ASCENDED TO ANOTHER PLANE.
AND YOUR STUCK HERE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ENERGY.
SO SAVE YOUR ENERGY BY DESTROYING YOUR HABITS AND NEGATIVE THOUGHT PATTERNS WHICH ARNT REALLY YOURS ANYWAY. AND GUESS WHAT YOU BECOME AS LIGHT AS AIR.
I GUESS YOU WONT BE DOING GREATER THINGS THAN WAS RECORDED ABOUT JESUS IN THE LAST DAYS. BUT I SURE AS HELL WILL.
CUZ THIS IS MY ONLY CHANCE

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

Remember the story about the guy who was storing up for tomorrow and forgot to live for today.
he died in the middle somewhere. i think jc calls it lukewarm. when your lukewarm your not spontaneous and creative. you dont have any fun.
but you do have a lot of stuff. but it keeps you chained down. IM TIRED OF CHRISTIANS SAYING THEY WANT TO BE LIKE CHRIST. STOP WANTING AND JUST FREAKIN DO IT. GO LIVE IN THE DESERT AWAY FROM YOUR COMFORTS. GO WITHOUT EXTERNAL STIMULATION FOR AWHILE AND MAYBE YOULL UNDERSTAND WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. Jesus hung out with the publicans and sinners of his day because they were open to his ideas for change in their lives. He would march right into your glorious churches today with a whip and overturn your bakesales. you know down inside that your preachers are just as snakelike and viperous as in olden day. gimme sum of that old time poison gimme some of that old time poison gimme somma that old time poison its good enough for me.

no ill tell you what would heal all your gawdam churches. tell that pastor of yours to let his
children go up their and lead the way..
because how else will you become like a little child unless you have an example.
remember become like a child or you will remain in hell

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

Remember the story about the guy who was storing up for tomorrow and forgot to live for today.
he died in the middle somewhere. i think jc calls it lukewarm. when your lukewarm your not spontaneous and creative. you dont have any fun.
but you do have a lot of stuff. but it keeps you chained down. IM TIRED OF CHRISTIANS SAYING THEY WANT TO BE LIKE CHRIST. STOP WANTING AND JUST FREAKIN DO IT. GO LIVE IN THE DESERT AWAY FROM YOUR COMFORTS. GO WITHOUT EXTERNAL STIMULATION FOR AWHILE AND MAYBE YOULL UNDERSTAND WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. Jesus hung out with the publicans and sinners of his day because they were open to his ideas for change in their lives. He would march right into your glorious churches today with a whip and overturn your bakesales. you know down inside that your preachers are just as snakelike and viperous as in olden day. gimme sum of that old time poison gimme some of that old time poison gimme somma that old time poison its good enough for me.

no ill tell you what would heal all your gawdam churches. tell that pastor of yours to let his
children go up their and lead the way..
because how else will you become like a little child unless you have an example.
remember become like a child or you will remain in hell

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

HAPPY NEW YEARhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lame.gif

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

false prophet------who are u talking to? i'm not beccasue. lol-------by the way i don't attend church. so save the speach.

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Holly, what does that mean? "I'm not beccasue"

[smitty (smitty)]

Eric, Dude, chill a little will ya? I belive what I belive because it's MY OWN choice, not yours. While I don't agree w/you on any of your last posts, at least I'm glad it's YOUR OWN choice, not Tonys or some "older christian's".So give me the space to belive what I want O.K.? Otherwise, you come off sounding just like Windycity.

Af far as being lijke "a little child" by your definition, no way. Most of the time as a kid, I found other children to be downright mean and cruel to each other.How do you figure that?

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

it means simply that false prophet was addressing my post as if i was becca.........maybe he got the screennames confused

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

I think he said "because", not "beccasue" LOL

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

lololol

[fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)]

false_prophet_detector,

What you are proselytizing here, is a 'new age' teaching, and NOT the Gospel.

New Age is a recent and developing belief system in North America encompassing thousands of autonomous (and sometime contradictory) beliefs, organizations, and events. Generally the New Age borrows its theology from pantheistic Eastern religions and its practices from 19th century Western occultism. The term “New Age” is used herein as an umbrella term to describe organizations which seem to exhibit one or more of the following beliefs: (1) All is one, all reality is part of the whole; (2) Everything is God and God is everything; (3) Man is God or a part of God; (4) Man never dies, but continues to live through reincarnation; (5) Man can create his own reality and/or values through transformed consciousness or altered states of consciousness.

I don't know why you would come onto an anti-cult message board, to essentially promote another cultic belief system, but that is another topic for another place and time.

But no matter how much time you spend, lighting candles or whatever it is you do to make yourself feel all warm and snuggly inside, it will not change the only TRUTH there is.

You and any other 'new age' believer, can choose to follow whatever or whomever you want. It's your choice. As it is mine, to serve God.

Take your mumbo-jumbo elsewhere, if that is all you have to bring to the table.

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/talker.gif

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

Perhaps your right i seem to just see a whole lot of repetition in society. and it all seems to be centered around keeping up with the joneses.
how can you deny that we are all in this together.
no one is lost unless they truly believe that for themself. i heard that ray giroulx died from stomach cancer. the doctors said it was a completely treatable form of cancer but they couldnt help him because he gave up the will to live. all im saying is i think that there are pearls to find for the seeker and death
for the QUITTER. and i have always been able to take the good out of any situation that life has put me in front of. and by the way we are all followers and leaders all the time. i just dont believe in worshipping someone it seems alot like begging to me.
think about it for a second. a true warrior like
JC would never allow anyone to worship him. he would simply say you can do it too

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

you know what im really sick to my stomach of people
like tony alamo aka (berney bizarre hoffman) getting
away with the crap they do because they can make people that are open to doing good believe in their
insane ideas. its definitely a conditioning. you should see me in my daily life. im one of the happiest people to be around or hang out with. ive simply let out another side on the internet because its so easy to hide behind words on a keyboard. but what i do is true.

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

he has created a shell around himself but there is a way to break through. and we will find it
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[electricguy (electricguy)]

false_prophet;
what you are spouting is definetly "new age" and for your information there really is a God. When you realize you are not god then try the Bible and prayer.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

FPD....I am hereby putting you on report!
For spreading information that has not been approved by tony or the "commitee". How do you plead?
You know what is funny? JC the peaceful warrior was accused of bringing "new age" and heretical ideas to a people that were stuck in a rut. The same sacrifices, offerings, prayers, and behaviours over and over again. Jesus came and said that all of it was no longer necessary.
That instead of trying to get to Heaven, that God would bring Heaven to us. If heaven is where God is, and that is where we want to be? What then, when God comes into our hearts? Does that not mean that the Kingdom of Heaven is now within us? This idea is all over the new testament, and all through out Jesus' teachings.
Which one of you, having felt the touch of God's spirit in your hearts can deny that it felt like you were in Heaven? Think how it would be if you felt that way all the time, would you not think you were in Heaven?
Children do not spend their energy searching for meaning; they use their energy for more important pursuits of sheer joy.
Some commented about how children could be so cruel and mean.....actually children learn that behaviour from adults. When you find a mean spirited and cruel child, it is one that has typically been mistreated and hurt by the adults in his/her life. Childhood is all about experiencing life around you for exactly what it is. The wind in your hair amazes you, the sun on your face comforts you, the color and beauty of God's handiwork all around you provides you with endless amounts of joy.
Adulthood is all about subjecting yourself to schedules, rules, and ideals that you convince yourself (daily) are important. We get up to go to work, to pay the rent; we pay the rent for the house we have to put all the stuff we collect in; we collect all of the "stuff" because....well, why do we collect all of this "stuff"??? Why is it so important to have that really good job, nice car, nice house, and beautiful wife? How will that make us happy? Is it really God blessing us with material goods? If we are not supposed to seek for our treasures here on earth, but lay up store for them in Heaven. Then why do so many churches preach that God wants us to be materially "blessed" here on earth? If we are supposed to follow Jesus, and to emulate his behaviour and works....wasn't he devoid of material goods? How come the very large majority of churches today, and Jesus differ so much in their teachings? We all say that we follow Jesus....but do we?
It is easy to say the FPD is preaching new age drivel, but have you really compared what he says to what Jesus says? Really closely compared, with much prayer and fasting? Do not be so quick to call him a heretic, many called Jesus and all of the prophets heretics; and some of the prophets were pretty nutty. Some were murderers, some married prostitutes, some walked naked in the desert and used only their own excrement to fuel their fires, some ate locust and appeared insane, the list goes on.
Eric, I love your hope and lack of fear.

[fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)]

christophr19,

Actually, I have compared what FPD has put on not just this thread, (which I started for other reasons; SEE ABOVE), but the others as well, to what the BIBLE says.

First of all, I have seen nowhere in the Bible, the words 'new age', when compared very closely, as you suggest, to what Jesus Christ or His diciples did, to get the Word out. Chapter and verse, please if you can show me otherwise.

All this talk of we are gods, so on....is nonsense. Do not be fooled by strange doctrines, that might make you feel good about yourself and tickle your ears, but have nothing to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and what His sacrifice for us means.

What FPD and others (not necessarily on the Alamo Foundation thread, but throughout FACTnet and the 'www' in its entirety), are proselytizing, is heresy, and I will continue to call it such, until the day comes (a big IF) that God Himself, tells me otherwise.

Discernment and the courage to call wrong, wrong ...I thank God for those gifts. It saved me from alot of heartache in my 38 years.

But you might like some of these televangelists, if new age is your 'bag'; like Rod Parsley for instance. What he preaches, is much like what FPD has to say. He tosses in alittle Scripture, to confuse, but it is generally the same double-speak.

As for the churches that are out there, who preach a sugar-coated message, and appear to be in it for nothing more than the multi-million dollar homes and fancy cars...yes, that does indeed happen. It seems like it is more of a cancer in the Church today, than anything else. Widespread....and hogwash, as well.

But that is where our discernment comes in. We must have our house built on a solid foundation, not look to Mr. So-and-So, to lead us. God has for us, everything we need. Why look to man, when they are just as messed up as the rest of us? You can put a Brooks Brothers suit on a jackass, place them in a fancy car and give them a fancy house, BUT it doesn't change the fact, that he is STILL a jackass.

Psalm 118:8
"It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."

Simple enough.

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

i agree that these new age doctrines are alittle out there and frankly ridiclous but...........atleast chris is out comparing and searching and looking for God, being born and raised in a cult whether or not the gospel was correct that tony taught, we as the "kids" have had a very hard time trusting anything. As you stated in the above post "Why look to man, when they are just as messed up as the rest of us"?God has for us everything we need.This is true for all man including you. You may believe deeply what you believe but chris and everyone else has to be shown by God for themselves.What i'm trying to say is atleast he and eric are out searching and haven't just turned their backs completely on God.......remember we were in the "church" but not by choice.

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

i agree that these new age doctrines are alittle out there and frankly ridiclous but...........atleast chris is out comparing and searching and looking for God, being born and raised in a cult whether or not the gospel was correct that tony taught, we as the "kids" have had a very hard time trusting anything. As you stated in the above post "Why look to man, when they are just as messed up as the rest of us"?God has for us everything we need.This is true for all man including you. You may believe deeply what you believe but chris and everyone else has to be shown by God for themselves.What i'm trying to say is atleast he and eric are out searching and haven't just turned their backs completely on God.......remember we were in the "church" but not by choice.

[fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)]

holdol27,

Quite right. Yes, you and others here were in a cult, not by choice, but by birth. Noone is denying that.

But noone, including myself (for those of us who went by 'choice'), believed we were getting into a cult...it wasn't exactly used as an advertising technique.

But we are out now, yes? So, are we (or any of us who are out, whether we made the choice to be involved in the first place or not), still Victims, or Victorious?

"But I was in a cult..." It is a victim mentality, and serves nothing or noone.

I didn't leave TA's web of deceit and rebuild my life, or try to help those who have asked for my help, only to buy into another cult belief.

Proselytizing ones belief, as FPD has done, is by the way to mean: to convert one to their belief.

And yes....researching the Scriptures is a very good thing.

No argument there.

But, I will continue to say that coming onto an anti-cult message board, promoting another cultic belief system, as FPD has done from nearly the onset, is questionable at best. I shouldn't have to say that, as it seems pretty obvious, but what the heck...it's a slow morning.

And I'm not coming on here to get others to believe me, or follow me. Read my post again. Read all of them, in fact. I have referred over and over, to Scripture.

Argue or debate with me, all you like. I will point you every time to Scripture, to make my point. And yes, I do believe very strongly in what I do; that being the simplicity and beauty of the Word of God. I don't need to look to other belief systems or twisted ideologies, to find a 'home'.

I've found it. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

God bless.

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

i agree that these new age doctrines are alittle out there and frankly ridiclous but...........atleast chris is out comparing and searching and looking for God, being born and raised in a cult whether or not the gospel was correct that tony taught, we as the "kids" have had a very hard time trusting anything. As you stated in the above post "Why look to man, when they are just as messed up as the rest of us"?God has for us everything we need.This is true for all man including you. You may believe deeply what you believe but chris and everyone else has to be shown by God for themselves.What i'm trying to say is atleast he and eric are out searching and haven't just turned their backs completely on God.......remember we were in the "church" but not by choice.

[wilma (wilma)]

Hello everyone,
I have a suggestion and it is just that, a suggestion. Take it or leave it...as we all have that freedom now...something we didn't have in the Alamo Foundation.

This message board is primarily about discussing the Alamo Foundation. Hopefully, it will successfully expose Tony Alamo and his atrocities. If we bog it down discussing, debating, and arguing our spiritual beliefs (important as they are) it will defeat that purpose, in my opinion. (There are numerous other message boards throughout the internet for that purpose.)

Some people have been very damaged, hurt, and confused by their experinces with the Foundation. Their faith has been shattered. Let's trust God that He will show us each the way, in His own timing.

A dear friend sent me this saying and I think it's worth reflecting on here, "Resolve to be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and wrong. Sometime in life you will have been all of these."

Best wishes for a Happy and Healthy New Year to you ALL.
Susie G

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

all i'm saying is........its not solving anything going back and forth about your beliefs in comparison to others........it could be worse eric and chris could be out killing and raping people as apposed to searching out the truth. whether they are right or wrong they are searching.just as all of you were back in the 60's when you came across the alamos.......maybe eric shouldn't get on here and try to sell his "cultish" beliefs.......then again all of the "adults" from the alamo foundation have been doing it as well with their long posts about what God has done for them. whats the difference? you believe your faith to be the right one.

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

actually i agree with all of you. and i was really shouting at myself not at any of you.
the only person ive ever been able to truly help
or teach was myself. and hell no i dont want any converts. and believe me jc didnt want any converts either his message was just so dam good
that he couldnt help it.
when i was in L.A. recently i did some picketing
for fun and i painted these posters and got some friends to picket with me on the corner of soledad
and sierra hwy. man was the response great. my
posters said "hang tony alamo cult leader"
and had a picture of him on the poster as well.
another said " put tony in jail where he belongs
cult leader, child rapist, women beater, convicted felon" the response was awesome i was honked at and given the thumbs up sign about 1000 times. i also got to converse with a crapload of people and inform them at stoplights of the monster in there community. talk about a rush i was elated. all i know is that if we want him to go down its in the doing. faith without works is dead. so lets get to work. if there are any in the ft. smith area start to picket its alot of fun and you can help make people more aware.
God Bless

[wilma (wilma)]

Kudos to you Eric aka FPD,

I hope you called the media or got some pics of those posters yourself. If not, there's always NEXT weekend, right?!!!! You ought to call the local paper and tell them next time you get the urge to do that.

Hey, if there's anyway you can forward pics of doing that to Marcel, maybe he can put them up on the picture website.

Oh, if I was in Ft Smith or Fouke, wouldn't I love to do that!!

Happy New Year to you all.
Susie G

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

you should have seen the look on dave scheffs face.
actually a whole lot of foundation robots showed up,
i saw billy parish, he was pealing off the gospel tracts i made and was posting everywhere, i taped about 300 pieces of paper in bus stops bank drive thrus and wherever i fancied. dave mc adams was very perturbed. they called the cops on me. and when they showed up i told them the truth. well the cops knew all about tony and told me i was well within my rights to be speaking out against it. it was very encouraging. next time its the corner of the local newsgroup. who knows what will happen. happy Happy New Year, HAPPY NEW YEAR, IM DRUNK. LOL AND ITS FUN SOMETIMES. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[electricguy (electricguy)]

FPD my apologies for being so hard. That was a good quote Susie, one we all could take to heart. And fooled no more, kudo's to your strength and determination to seek the truth in scripture. Right on to all the ideas and efforts to expose TA for what he is. I will keep trying to take it to the media and the rest of you do what you can. If there are any of you who still have family or friends in the foundation and don't want to let it be known who you are publicily, then let the others of us who have nothing to lose be the ones in the public eye. Give us your stories to tell and we will keep the names out for protection. WE just need the details of what TA has done and will protect the sources names.
My wife Rosetta is the one who said we should step out in the front and protect the ones who don't want to tell publicily who they are. But we want to tell the world your stories so they can see what TA is really like.
GBU to all of you, I am really impressed with you guys, after all you have been through you show amazing strength and wisdom.
e-mail me your stories if you will and I will try to get them published and aired.
Lord Bless John
john_whitman@msn.com

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

yes Wilma, I dont know how much help I could be but I am certainly willing to try to help. I may have witnessed something jointly with another to make it a more solid testimony. People together have a much louder voice , just as the body is many members and can do awesome things. Its harder to discount the experience of many.

Carol Fryer

[smitty (smitty)]

Hey FPD .. HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Hey, next time you do a poster, why not title it "Tony Alamo's Secrets" w/ a suitable lame photo of T.A.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif

[helives (helives)]

Hey FPD
Your poster plastering seemed to get a reaction from foundation people. I wish I could have seen it. I sure hope you have pictures of the posters. I'll bet Tony was ticked off, he had to be in order for him to send the Big, older brothers down to the corner. Big brothers??? Dave Scheff, Bill Parrish, Dave McAdams lol.

years ago it would have been Bill Levy, Bob Streit, Mike Borek, Dave Coats, Gary Waller, Tony Wood- now the big bros are scheff, parrish and mcadams --- Tony better get looking for some heavies to protect him.

Maybe that is why Tony ran back to Fouke Arkansas, things got too hot for him in Saugas. When did you do this poster gig?

[smitty (smitty)]

Dave Scheff as an Older Bro.........They have definetly fallen on hard timeshttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[wilma (wilma)]

Hey Eric,

I have messages from a couple of your childhood friends after I told them about your poster antics:

from Tami, "Well, I've never been drunk, but I could still have fun picketing. What a great idea, Eric. Thanks."

and from Eliza V who was excited to hear what you are doing, and said " I think that is awesome that you are picketing, Eric" She said she'd like to talk to you.

just passing on the message....
Susie G