ALAMO CULT UPDATE

[horn (horn)]

Dear Ex members, friends and family,
As I promised I would update this post. Since my last post we have met with several other people who are participating in our commitment to see that justice is done. Everyone keep in mind that this degenerate low life is a convicted felon and this among other things will make it easy for the authorities to pick him up and send him back where he belongs for the rest of his sorry life. I received a number of letters of support off the board who we if not contacted, will be contacting soon. From what I understand we are over 20 strong and growing. By the end of next week our plan will be put into place and we will be moving forward. One thing I want to mention I am sure everyone understands that the only person you are speaking to from the foundation is Tony. Nobody has ever been given the opportunity to do anything to reply to anything in any way or forum. I also want to mention that I am not trying to be some mystery person behind this effort. Everyone who participates will very freely know who I am, as well as everyone else involved. OUR GOAL IS TO PUT THIS DISPICABLE EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN BEING BACK IN PRISON WHERE HE BELONGS.

[insearchoftherealtruth (insearchoftherealtruth)]

Horn, Changes in Alamo's doctrine are directly linked to the writings of George M. Lamsa, an Aramaic translator who has his own version of the KJV. He was an Episcopalian scholar, directly linked to Catholicism. Alamo has selectively chosen bits and pieces of Lamsa's writings to substantiate some of the twists and turns he has disseminated in some of his teachings recently.

[insearchoftherealtruth (insearchoftherealtruth)]

Lamsa claims to be able to translate the writings and interpretations of the King James Bible into "understandable" English transliterations of the original Aramaic tongue spoken by Jesus and his disciples. Some are quite interesting. Some are obviously Catholic in nature. Has Alamo become sympathetic with the Vatican? Strange bedfellows indeed.....!!

[alamosupporter (alamosupporter)]

tony uses two teachings of george lamsa. george lamsa does have a strange doctrine but was a master at the aramaic language which is one of the languages Jesus spoke. there were two mistakes that the people who translated the original texts to english made. one was that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven. lamsa said that was an error and that the words camel and rope are almost identical except for one extra dot and so it's really, it is easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle....

and the second error Lamsa points out is when Jesus supposedly said, "my God, my God, why hast though forsaken me" when Jesus really said, "my God, My God, for this cause came I into the world." and even in the KJV the people standing by didn't even know what the Lord said. they thought he was calling for elijah. Tony then goes on to say that God didn't forsake the Jesus especially on the cross. That's all tony uses from Lamsa.

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

king james version is all u need!

[paperclip (paperclip)]

Tony uses the writings from this person because he is seeking familiar spirits, because the Lord left him when he left the Lord and followed his own ego. He is not getting anything from God, because he is backslidden in a major, major way. He also now reads the apocrypha. There are quotes and references right on his website for all the world to see. Here's a link for anyone who's interested:
http://www.probe.org/content/view/25/77
one quote from this link:
"Written by Don Closson
The Source of the Controversy
A fundamental issue that separates Roman Catholic and Protestant traditions is the question of the Old Testament Apocrypha. Catholics argue that the Apocrypha was an integral part of the early church and should be included in the list of inspired Old Testament books. Protestants believe that the books of the Apocrypha are valuable for understanding the events and culture of the intertestamental period and for devotional reading, but are not inspired nor should they be included in the canon, the list of books included in the Bible. This disagreement about which books belong in the Bible points to other differences in Roman Catholic and Protestant beliefs about canonicity itself and the interplay between the authority of the Bible and the authority of tradition as expressed in the institutional church. Catholics contend that God established the church and that the Church, the Roman Catholic Church, both gave us the Bible and verified its authenticity. Protestants believe that the Scriptures, the writings of the prophets and apostles, are the foundation upon which the church is built and are authenticated by the Holy Spirit, who has been and is active in church congregations and councils." VERY interesting, heh?
here are a couple more links exposing george lamsa: (and tony alamo)
http://www.pfo.org/rememberalamo.htm
http://www.metamind.net/metaprolist.html
Notice on the second link that George Lamsa's books are listed on a website of SPRITUALISTS, as resources. Sounds to me that tony alamo has taken on quite a number of spirits of catholic-type doctrine, as well as other things, (with the exception of the celibacy thing). The guy's gone, wacko. Mr. alamosupporter, please check out these links. Oh, by the way, Jesus DID say "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me!!" He also said a lot of other things. The Word of God tells us that He was tempted in ALL POINTS like as we are, yet WITHOUT SIN. And you cannot tell me that you have never felt like the Lord has forsaken you. That's how Jesus FELT. Every Christian feels like that at least once in their christian walk. It's part of learning to totally trust in the Lord for EVERYTHING, NO MATTER WHAT. Of course the Lord Jesus wasn't forsaken, He just FELT like it. He TRUSTED His Father, as we all should. Use the brain God gave you.

[smitty (smitty)]

Paperclip: Here's one for you. A number of years ago when both Tony and Scientology were going after CAN there was some sort of meeting between some brothers Tony sent and a Mr. Gordon Melton who is the director of the Institute for New Religions here in S.B. After tracking down some links with then I found a site that links the Institute with Opus Dei (a semi-secret Catholic lay order with connections to right wing types in Latin America). Tonys swerving into the doctrines you write about happened after this meeting.I've not much to go on right now, but it IS interesting isn't it? Stay tuned for more.....

[insearchoftherealtruth (insearchoftherealtruth)]

alamosupporter: you need to get your facts straight....Eli, Eli Lama Sabachthani...is in fact transliterated in Aramaic to..."My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me."

The phrase... Eli, Eli, Lamana Sabakthani is transliterated in the Aramaic as..."My God, My God, For this I was spared" not as you say, "for this came I into the world". Know your facts before you make yourself sound like someone trying to sound intelligent.

For years Alamo started his services with the introduction that he adhered to the King James Version of the Bible, which he stated, was a direct translation from the original Hebrew and Aramaic Scriptures of the Old Testament and the Hellenic Greek which was the Greek written and spoken by the Jews who also wrote the New Testament. Now he wants to change the wording of something in the New Testament by taking an Aramaic translation when he adamantly preached for years that the New Testament was written in Hellenic Greek, not Aramaic.

Sounds like a convenient way to change any doctrine he pleases just by producing a "NEW" long-lost translation. God's word does not change, but the doctrine of the 7,000 world's religions changes with every whim of their leaders.

[forestbrain (forestbrain)]

oops

(Message edited by forestbrain on November 14, 2005)

[alamosupporter (alamosupporter)]

According to Expert Aramaic Translators,

Jesus Never Said, "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?" 1

The four first Gospels were written in Aramaic, not Greek. Jesus and His disciples spoke Aramaic and Hebrew, not Greek. Here are the true Words Christ spoke on the cross: Jesus really cried out, "My God, My God for this I was kept" (Matt. 27:46, Orig. Text).

"Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried [out] with a loud voice, [and said], Eli, Eli, Lemana Shabakthani! Some of the men who were standing by when they heard it, said, this man calleth for Elias" (Matt. 27:45-47, Orig. Text).

All versions of the Gospels have retained these words in the original tongue. They have, however, given them a different meaning. Matthew, according to the Eastern version, does not translate them. This is because he wrote to the people who had seen Jesus and had heard Him preaching. It also seems probable that the later writers did not agree on the exact meaning of these words when they translated them into Greek. Aramaic is a very obscure language, and they didn't know it as well as they should have before they laid their translation into the scriptures. This term, even at present, is only used by the Aramaic-speaking people in Assyria, who speak the same language the Galileans spoke at the time of our Lord. This phrase in Aramaic means, "My God, My God, for this I was kept [this was My destiny-I was born for this]."

David did not quote Psalm 22:1 as a prophecy of the Lord. He spoke those words for himself (because he had many enemies). David was foolishly saying that God had forsaken him. This part of Psalm 22 was not a prophecy of Christ's death. Jesus did not quote this Psalm. If He had, He would have used Hebrew instead of Aramaic, and if He had translated it from Hebrew He would have used the Aramaic word "nashatani," which means "forsaken me," instead of the word "Shabakthani," which in this case means, "kept me." Even the soldiers who stood by the cross did not understand what Jesus said in that hour of agony and suffering. They thought that He was calling on Elijah because the word "Elijah" in Aramaic is "Elia," which is similar to the Word for God, "Eli." 2

In His last minutes of suffering, Jesus watched the crowd of Roman soldiers, Pharisees, Jewish priests, and the men and women of Jerusalem, who had come to watch Him suffer and die. 3 Some insulted Him. Others spat in His face. 4 Some called Him a sinner, a cult leader, or an evildoer 5 when in reality He was Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, God Almighty Himself, 6 our Lord and our Savior, the first of an entire new creation of God-men who would carry God's unchanging message of eternal life through salvation in Christ in every age. 7

The statement, "My God, My God, for this I was kept" was plainly spoken in Aramaic by Christ to His Father. He spoke loudly enough that His disciples, who understood Aramaic could hear His words, which confirmed the reason for His crucifixion. 8 They would pass the message on to the entire world. 9

The book of Joel states that the Word of God would be restored to its original meaning in these last days by the true messengers of God. 10 The King James Version of the Bible is the Bible I use most of the time, but this statement, taken from the original Aramaic text, of Christ dying on the cross, is incorrect in the KJV, probably because of the Greek translators.

Many scriptures plainly show that Christ was born for that hour so that He might save the souls of those who believe the Gospel and so that they, following in His steps, could continue bearing witness to the truth of His living in them. In this way they continue His incarnation, ministering His life into others through them by the power of His life-giving Spirit living in them by the power of His resurrection Spirit living in them, and by the power of His Spirit of ascension living in them, which is evidenced by spiritual gifts given unto them. Christ's mannerisms, His life and power is alive in them, giving His life to their spirits, giving His life to their minds, and giving His life to their mortal bodies, transforming or transfiguring their tri-part human selves day by day unto the life of God until they are totally transfigured into Christ Himself. 11

The scriptures show that His destiny was to become the King of kings and Lord of lords, the most highly exalted and glorious name forever. 12 The Bible states that God has "given Him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in Heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Phlp. 2:9-11). Jesus said, "All power is given unto Me in Heaven and in earth" (Matt. 28:18). There was nothing else that could have given such a glorious victory as the cross for us and in us.

The Aramaic speaking disciples and women who were from Galilee never for a moment thought that Jesus had said God had forsaken Him. How could He say that? He had told His disciples that the world would reject Him, and that they, His disciples, would lose faith for a short time, for three days. 13 Our Savior let His disciples and the rest of us know that the Father would be with Him always, because He and God were one and the same. 14 The Triune God was living and working in His soon to be crucified body. 15

Jesus told Peter, "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He shall presently give Me more than twelve legions of angels?" (Matt. 26:53). This statement tells me that Christ had full confidence in the Father's fidelity to Him. 16 He also said, "O My Father, if this cup may not pass away from Me, except I drink it, Thy will be done" (Matt. 26:42). Obviously the Father let Him know that They would be together throughout the entire ordeal. 17

These words, "Eli, Eli, Lemana Shabakthani," are even today used by Assyrians when they suffer and die unjustly. Instead of complaining, they leave everything up to God. They believe it is God's desire that they should pass through such experiences. This is the reason people do not often commit suicide in the Middle East.

True born-again Christians will never commit suicide. 18 They know their bodies are the temple of the living God, the Holy Dove's resting place, the place where the Triune God will rest, live and work. 19 We are never to kill God's temple. 20 "Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" (I Cor. 6:19).

If we kill God's temple by suicide, we will immediately go to an eternal Hell. 21 We have a living God who never leaves or forsakes us. 22 How much less would He have forsaken His only begotten Son when He with the Father by the Spirit, the Triune God, was dying on the cross at Calvary for the sins of the world? If we allow Him to live and work in us, He will heal us if we are sick. 23 If we have pain, He will take the pain away. Cast all your cares upon Him, "for He careth for you" (I Pet. 5:7). Let the Lord be your shepherd. 24 If you will, you shall not want for any good thing. 25 In this wicked world, where there is not much peace or joy, He will give you "the peace of God, which passeth all understanding" (Phlp. 4:7), as well as "joy unspeakable and full of glory" (I Pet. 1:8). 26 Begin letting God live and work in His temple, your body, now by saying this prayer:


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Prayer

My Lord and my God, have mercy upon my soul, a sinner. 1 I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God. 2 I believe that He died on the cross and shed His precious blood for the forgiveness of all my sins. 3 I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead by the power of the Holy Spirit 4 and that He sits on the right hand of God at this moment, hearing my confession of sin and this prayer. 5 I open up the door of my heart and I invite You into my heart, Lord Jesus. 6 Wash all of my filthy sins away in the precious blood that You shed in my place on the cross at Calvary. 7 You will not turn me away, Lord Jesus, You will forgive my sins and save my soul. I know because Your Word, the Bible says so. 8 Your Word says that You will turn no one away, and that includes me. 9 Therefore, I know that You have heard me, and I know that You have answered me, and I know that I am saved. 10 And I thank You, Lord Jesus, for saving my soul, and I will show my thankfulness by doing as You command and sin no more. 11

You've just completed the first step in a series of five steps which are necessary to receive salvation. Your second step is to deny yourself and take up the cross daily for the purpose of mortifying yourself, that is, for putting to death your own will, your soulful self, and the world with all of its lusts. All these must be baptized into the death of Christ.

Step three is your resurrection from the satanic life of Adam unto the sinless life of Christ. Step four is your ascension into a position of authority to reign for God on earth, and the fifth step is to reign for God on earth to the end for the purpose of bringing about the kingdom of Heaven on earth. You must learn the Word of God, then submit yourself and do what the Word says, so that the Church and the world may see evidence of your submission to God's Word, His order, and His authority in and by you.

Praise the Lord. May God reward you abundantly.

World Pastor Tony Alamo


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Our church receives much mail with thousands of requests for Bibles and literature. Much of our literature is printed in Hebrew, Spanish, French, Italian, German, Romanian, Polish, Czech, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Albanian, Serbian, Telugu, Hindi, Marathi, Bengali, and Arabic. Pastor Alamo’s ninety-one page book, The Messiah, is currently available in Hebrew, English, Spanish, Chinese, Russian, Portuguese, German, French, Italian, Korean, Greek, Arabic, Japanese, and Telugu. Distributors for Alamo literature are on the increase every day throughout the world.



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Pastor Tony Alamo’s Radio broadcasts can be heard everywhere in the United States, Canada, and throughout the world.

To receive information of the Radio Station in your area where Pastor Alamo can be heard, e-mail us at info@alamoministries.com or fax 479-782-7406. Explore Pastor Tony Alamo’s website, www.alamoministries.com (http://www.alamoministries.com) or listen to his messages at wmqm1600.com.


Win souls. Become a distributor of Pastor Tony Alamo’s gospel literature and tapes. For information e-mail: info@alamoministries.com or fax 479-782-7406 your requests.



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Tony Alamo, World Pastor

Tony Alamo Christian Ministries Worldwide
P. O. Box 6467
Texarkana, Texas 75505


Twenty-four hour prayer and information line: (479) 782-7370 / FAX (479) 782-7406

www.alamoministries.com (http://www.alamoministries.com)


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Tony Alamo Christian Ministries provides a place to live with all the things necessary for life to all those who truly want serve the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength.


Services held every evening at 8 P.M. and Sunday at 3 P.M. and 8 P.M. at the following locations:


13136 Sierra Hwy., Canyon Country, California 91390, 4401 Windsor Dr., Fort Smith, Arkansas 72904


Services are also held in Elizabeth, New Jersey, and fifteen minutes south of Texarkana, Arkansas. Call for locations.

MEALS SERVED AFTER EACH SERVICE

Free transportation to and from services provided at the following locations:

5th and Broadway, Los Angeles, California daily at 5:30 P.M. Sundays at 12:30 P.M. and 5:30 P.M. Hollywood Blvd. & Highland Ave., Hollywood, California, daily at 6:30 P.M., Sundays at 1:30 P.M. and 6:30 P.M.

Ask for Pastor Alamo’s book, The Messiah, showing Christ from the Old Testament revealed in over three hundred thirty-three prophecies.

Taped messages are available as well.

CHRIST, THE WORD OF GOD, IS THE ONLY WAY, TRUTH, AND ETERNAL LIFE. 12 PASTOR ALAMO IS INTERNATIONALLY RENOWNED FOR USING THE WORD OF GOD ONLY TO PRESENT IT. THIS LITERATURE CARRIES THAT TRUE PLAN OF SALVATION. 13 DO NOT THROW IT AWAY, PASS IT ON TO ANOTHER.


Those of you who are in other countries, we encourage you to translate this literature into your native language.

If you do reprint, please include this copyright and registration:

The Tony Alamo Christian Ministries is a division of Music Square Church, Inc.

© Copyright July, 2000 All rights reserved

World Pastor Tony Alamo ® Registered July, 2000


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"Jesus Never Said, "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?" by Tony Alamo" Footnotes:

1. Holy Bible from the Ancient Eastern Text, George M. Lamsa's translation, Harper Collins Publishers; The Messiah, by Tony Alamo return

2. Matt. 27:46-49 return

3. Matt. 27:27, 35-36, 39-43, 54-56, Luke 23:27, 35-36 return

4. Matt. 26:67, 27:27-31, 34-44, 48-49 Mark 14:65, 15:19 return

5. Matt. 27:20-44, 26:59-68, Mark 15:16-20, 29-32, Luke 23:1-5, 35-39, John 5:16-18, 7:1, 7, 20, 9:24 return

6. Deut. 4:35, 39, Isa. 9:6, 44:6, 45:22, Neh. 9:6, Matt. 1:23, John 1:1-3, 10-14, 10:30, 12:44-45, 14:6-11, 13, 20, 23, 17:21, II Cor. 4:4, Eph. 3:9, Col. 1:12-17, I Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:2-3, 8-10, Rev. 4:11 return

7. Isa. 9:6, 43:3, 11, 49:26, Joel. 2:1-11, Matt. 27:50-54, Mark 15:39, John 1:12-13, 17-18, 3:16-17, Acts 1:8, 2:1-4, 16-18, 38-39, Rom. 8:1-4, 16-23, 29-30, I Cor. 15:20-23, II Cor. 5:14-21, Heb. 1:1-6, 2:9-11, 14-17, 7:19, 24-28, 8:6-13, 9:13-15, 10:10-23, I John 4:9-10, 15, Rev. 1:5-6, 11:17 return

8. Matt. 20:28, 26:53-56, Mark 15:27-28, Luke 24:7, 26, 44-48, John 3:13-17, 4:34, 12:23, Acts 3:18, 13:28-39, I John 3:5, 4:10 return

9. Matt. 22:9-10, 28:19-20, Mark 16:14-15, 20, Luke 14:23, 24:46-47, John 21:14-17, Acts 1:8, 5:29-32, 10:36-43 return

10. Joel chs. 1 & 2 return

11. Rom. 8:6-11, I John 3:2 return

12. Isa. 9:6-7, Matt. 1:23, I Cor. 15:24-25, Eph. 1:17-23 return

13. Matt. 26:31-34, Mark 10:32-34, John 7:7 return

14. John 1:1-3, 14, 8:16, 29, 14:6-11, 16:32, 17:18-23, I John 5:7 return

15. John 8:16, 14:23, 16:32 return

16. John 8:29,11:41-42 , 14:8-9, 17:1-5 return

17. Matt. 11:27, John 5:19-29, 8:29, 12:23-32, 13:31-32, 14:9-11, 23-26, 16:14-16, 26-28, ch. 17, Eph. 2:13-18, I John 2:23 return

18. Gen. 9:5, Ex. 20:13, Deut. 5:17, Prov. 28:17, Rom. 13:9, Gal. 5:19-21, I Pet. 4:15, Rev. 21:8 return

19. John 6:56, 14:16-20, Rom. 8:11, I Cor. 3:16-17, 6:19-20, II Cor. 6:16, 4:6-7, Col. 1:27, I John 3:24, 4:12-13, 15-16, II John 2 return

20. II Cor. 5:6-11, Phlp. 1:21-25 return

21. Gen. 9:6, Ex. 20:13, Deut. 5:17, I Cor. 3:16-17, Rev. 21:8 return

22. Deut. 4:30-31, Psa. 94:14, Jer. 10:10, John 14:18, Heb. 13:5 return

23. Ex. 15:26, 23:25, Psa. 103:2-3, Isa. 53:5, I Pet. 2:24 return

24. Psa. ch. 23, 95:7, John 10:2-16, 27-28, Heb. 13:20-21, I Pet. 2:21-25 return

25. Lev. 26:3-12, Deut. 5:29, 28:1-14, Psa. 23, John 4:14, 6:35, Eph. 1:22-23 return

26. Deut. 29:9, Job 36:11, Isa. 1:19, 12:2-6, Hab. 3:18, II Tim. 1:7 return


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"Prayer" Footnotes: return to top

1. Psa. 51:5, Rom. 3:10-12, 23 return

2. Matt. 26:63-64, 27:54, Luke 1:30-33, John 9:35-37, Rom. 1:3-4 return

3. Acts 4:12, 20:28, Rom. 3:25, I John 1:7, Rev. 5:9 return

4. Psa. 16:9-10, Matt. 28:5-7, Mark 16:9, 12, 14, John 2:19, 21, 10:17-18, 11:25, Acts 2:24, 3:15, Rom. 8:11, I Cor. 15:3-7 return

5. Luke 22:69, Acts 2:25-36, Heb. 10:12-13 return

6. I Cor. 3:16, Rev. 3:20 return

7. Eph. 2:13-22, Heb. 9:22, 13:12, 20-21, I John 1:7, Rev. 1:5, 7:14 return

8. Matt. 26:28, Acts 2:21, 4:12, Eph. 1:7, Col. 1:14 return

9. Matt. 21:22, John 6:35, 37-40, Rom. 10:13 return

10. Heb. 11:6 return

11. John 5:14, 8:11, Rom. 6:4, I Cor. 15:10, Rev. 7:14, 22:14 return

12. John 14:6 return

13. Acts 4:12 return

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Who cares??? bla bla bla

[i_remember_you (i_remember_you)]

I'm with you Jules..We get enough of their litter on our cars when we go out in public, were not trying to hear that crap here!

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Actually, I have been lucky, there has been only one time since I left that I received anything from them on my car. But I am sure that will soon change now that I have posted on here, ha ha.

As a matter of fact, I have not met one person who has ever even heard of TA. Great job he is doing "ministring" to the "world", huh???

[insearchoftherealtruth (insearchoftherealtruth)]

alamosupporter....in the first footnote of your literature, you site ....

[[["1. Holy Bible from the Ancient Eastern Text, George M. Lamsa's translation, Harper Collins Publishers; The Messiah, by Tony Alamo return ]]].

In your own post you have given Mr. Alamo the authorship of "The Messiah"...what gives here???...in one post you say Mr. Alamo doesn't take credit for it...but in your own literature, you you give Mr. Alamo complete authorship credit with no reference to the real author. Kinda' double-minded there aren't you?

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Hey, where the hell is my Vatican check??? Did anyone else get theres? Mine must have gotten lost again, that damn Vatican-run post office.

[skeptik (skeptik)]

Okay, I'll admit it: I'm actually a Jesuit plant set out to undermine the Alamo church. Thought I could keep it hidden, no such luck.

Just kidding....

[havebrainwilltravel (havebrainwilltravel)]

Gosh darn, Skeptik! Just when I waz gonna ask you to lead our new cult!

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

does anyone have a foundation book or know where to get one????????????????????????????????????????????

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

FPD....my MoMs has got one, I think...
anyway, call her up and talk to her, she would love to hear from you.

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

hi Christopher. Welcome back. Hope you enjoy your new home.
Carol Fryer

[i_remember_you (i_remember_you)]

I think tony is the AntiChrist.

[smitty (smitty)]

I notice there's not a lot of folks here trying to contradict you......http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[helives (helives)]

i have one, call me fpd and chris

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

I don't get it.
you have one, what?

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

a foundation book silly read back a couple posts.
who r u again helives. is that queen b

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

oh yeah, duh...I fordet tings sometines!

[helives (helives)]

yes it's me sue b - chris call me - i don't have you number or your email address , take care and i love ya and fpd
queen b

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

i love u 2
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

according to the experts your so boring i fell asleep reading your expert opinion
alamo supporter

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

gosh and all that work looking up your scriptures to support your lame interpretation
i suppose when i go to hell ill have all the time in the world to try to figure out what in the sam hill you were trying to tell me in your gospel trash

hey alamo supporter have you ever been arrested for passing out gospel trash
cause i never got caught. i was way to slick
and i passe out over a million of those boring pieces of paper in memphis alone in three years

[willie (willie)]

It appears that Tony Alamo, at one time, was of the opinion that the New Testament was written in Greek. Also it appears that the KJV Bible was followed.


This is from the literature, The Queen of Whores were it is stated, "Greek (the original written language of the Bible)"

"The fact is that she had other children because the word, "firstborn" in Greek (the original written language of the Bible), as it appears in the two Scriptures above, is prototokos. Literally translated, prototokos means, "The first of many others."

The following comes from the same piece,

"All fallacy is proved false only by the Bible (KJV)."




Later on it appears that the opinion was changed. Now the Gospels were written in Aramaic.


This if a quote from the Alamo website literature, Jesus Never Said, "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"


The four first Gospels were written in Aramaic, not Greek. Jesus and His disciples spoke Aramaic and Hebrew, not Greek.


Something to think about. Maybe pray about. I wonder if one of the articles will be removed from the site? I wonder which one? Or maybe one will be edited.

I think Jesus could speak Greek, as well as the disciples and most others that lived in Gallilee of the Gentiles. It is not unusuaal for a person to be bilingual, have the ability to speak in more than one language.

Mar 7:25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:
Mar 7:26 The woman was A GREEK a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
Mar 7:27 BUT JESUS SAID UNTO HER, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
Mar 7:28 AND SHE ANSWERED AND SAID UNTO HIM, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.
Mar 7:29 AND HE SAID UNTO HER, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.
Mar 7:30 And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.

Now a person may say that the woman could speak Aramaic, but I think it is just as likely that the Jesus could speak Greek. Any thoughts on this?

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

the jesus could speak anything he wanted silly

[the_fbi (the_fbi)]

what's interesting as well is that the apostle Paul and Peter really made some serious mistakes. For one Paul had Timotheus in chapter 16 of acts circumcised after it was decreed in chapter 15 that they didn't have to be circumcised. Paul went on to recieve many deep revelations from the Lord regarding circumcision and is shared with us through his later epistles. And Peter seperated himself from the gentiles and wouldn't eat with them after he is the one that had that powerful vision of the sheet coming down from heaven with all manner of beasts and it was shown him that what God has cleansed call that not unclean. Also having the vision of the gentile asking for help going there and watched the Holy Spirit fall down upon them after the Jesus was preached to them. Yet Paul had to withstand Peter to his face regarding this issue in Gal 2:11.
I receive the message of growth through these things. Surely there is power in the blood to forgive such sins being that they are done in ignorence and in sincerity of heart and then going on to teach the correct way.

he who is spiritual explain these things.

[helives (helives)]

are you trying to compare tony's child abuse, pedophile rapings, polygamy practicing, lying ways to Paul or Peter?

There is a big difference in learning the true personality of God and being a flat out defier of God's word.

What are you asking here?

You are really vague and your question is not clear. he who is spiritual explain these things? what things????

[the_fbi (the_fbi)]

i was speaking to willie regarding what he was saying. you seem a little wacky. has alamo been convicted in court regarding your allegations? if not you can definately be sued for slander.
regardless I was'nt talking to you and you're wrong of my intentions which show me you're quick to false accuse.

[helives (helives)]

I was asking you what you meant. I didn't understand your post. I didn't realize that you were responding to Willie. No false accusing from me, I don't even know who you are.

Tony isn't going to sue for slander, because he knows everything that has been posted about him is true. There are lots of ex-foundation members who witnessed tony's abuse and polygamy. They are waiting and coming to grips with what they witnessed at Tony Alamo's hand.

The authorities are very aware of Tony and his abusive ways!

sue b

[the_fbi (the_fbi)]

here's an interesting study by a muslim who studies the New Testament and Old Testament regarding poligamy. He raises some very interesting points that I can not answer.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ntpoly.htm

see if you can answer him on every point.

[helives (helives)]

Jodi maybe you can post your testimony on how Tony gave you wine and forced you to be 1 of his many under age wives, against your will! Telling you if you didn't marry him and partake in polygamy with him you would die and burn in hell.
Tammi could tell how Tony kicked her beloved husband out of the foundation and forced himself on her.
Nikki can testify how Tony tried to force himself on her, and how he beat her nigh unto death for trying to leave his house. She finally escaped by running for her life!
That doesn't sound like Jesus to me!!!

So what is your point about the muslim and the same scripture tony alamo uses to defend his polygamy ways? Are you trying to condone polygamy or saying what Tony does is ok? I really still don't understand the purpose of your post?

[the_fbi (the_fbi)]

you mentioned poligamy in one of your posts. this is something I came across as a study regarding it. take it for what you want. because christians live by the Word of God - the Bible and at the end of revelation it says that if anyone adds to the Word of God to him will be added the plagues described therein so I am careful as to what I say is godly or ungodly.

[willie (willie)]

So, the_fbi, what is right, do you think? What would be correct, Greek or Aramaic? Did Jesus really say, "My God My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
Thanks for answering my post. I think the New Testament was originally written in Greek.

(Message edited by willie on January 07, 2006)

[helives (helives)]

That website is from a muslim's point of view. As a christian we understand that Jesus is the bridgroom and His bride is the body of Christ. Those scriptures are not referring to earthly brides. Oil in our lamps, being ready when Christ comes to takes us home, the other virgins were found wanton, they had sin in their lives.

did you ever live at the Alamo foundation?

You can do a search on Tony Alamo and find newspaper articles and court records where it has been documented regarding Tony's child abuse and polygamy. He went to jail for years for lying on his tax returns.

I agree with you , I try to be careful what I say because I want to walk the streets of gold with my Savior! However Jesus said the truth shall set you free. Speaking the truth about what Tony alamo has done to God's flock has really set me free from Tony alamo's control and has allowed me to worship my Lord and Savior.

[the_fbi (the_fbi)]

just out of curiosity, what would make you think the N.T. was written in Greek? I am finding a lot of sources saying Aramaic.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=aramaic+bible&btnG=Google+Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=aramaic+bible&btnG=Google+Search)

[willie (willie)]

I am finding a lot of sources saying Greek.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-49,GGLG:en&q=greek+New+Testament (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG:2005-49%2CGGLG:en&q=greek+New+Testament)

Also some people that have given very powerful Spirit filled messages, after which many souls were saved, believed in a Greek N.T. Here is a link to one of those sermons.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/sinners.htm

So, I ask again, do you think the N.T. was originally written in Greek or Aramaic? Or are you not completely, 100% sure.

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

Jesus still forgives.

[the_fbi (the_fbi)]

http://www.aramaicpe****ta.com/

look at this one.

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

Jesus changes people to His reflection.

[wilma (wilma)]

Willie and the_fbi,

Just a suggestion.......It would bring forth clearer communication if you would state your opinions and tell us who you are. Otherwise, it's hard to tell where you are coming from and what you are asking.

Have you ever been in the Alamo group? Are you currently in the Alamo group? Do you agree with Tony Alamo?

Thanks,
Susie G

[willie (willie)]

To the_fbi,

I ran across that site you mentioned, aramaicpe****ta.com.a while ago. I didn't find it convincing. Maybe we will talk about this again. Thanks for speaking with me.

[willie (willie)]

The part about Matthew 25: 1-12 justifying polygamy is, I think, reaching too far. When did anyone ever see someone marry ten people at once, or for that matter even be involved in a Jewish marriage ceremony where one man married five women at the same time? What kind of marriage night would that be?

[willie (willie)]

Well, I have to go. It's been interesting.

[electricguy (electricguy)]

The Old Testament was written mainly in Hebrew and some Aramaic, the New Testament was written originally in Greek and Aramaic. The Aramaic was the common spoken tongue of that day and some of it was written in that tongue but most of the text and most all of the copied texts were put in the Greek language.
John

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

yeah, ok. The point was, it WAS written.
When Jesus died on the cross for us, he fulfilled all of the old testament prophesies.
The old law was fulfilled when Jesus gave himself as the blood sacrifice, so that we would no longer be in bondage to the old "physical" law, but instead would have a personal, spiritual relationship with the Father through His Son. SO....really, does it really matter what language anything was written in?
The only thing we have to be concerned with, is if the Word of God is written in our hearts.
Which is: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, body, spirit, and strenghth; and to love your neighbor as yourself.
So, who here does that apply to??????
All of us!
Love one another.

[summer4ever (summer4ever)]

I figure we need to show people reading what type of person Tony is...

-------------------------------------------

Article: Stepdaughter Testifies About Rape by Alamo
Newspaper: Los Angeles Times
Date: 1993, April 28

"Evangelist Tony Alamo's stepdaughter testified Tuesday that he raped her, and a former wife said he beat and sexually assaulted her, but a federal magistrate said that was not enough to keep Alamo behind bars pending trial on tax evasion charges and set bail at $50,000.

In an extraordinary hearing that lasted well into the night in U. S. District Court in Los Angeles, Alamo's stepdaughter made public for the first time her claim that he raped her in 1966, when she was a teen-ager.

The former wife testified that Alamo broke her nose in a fit of rage and routinely beat her and forced her into sex in 1986, when they were married.

Both women also testified that they feared Alamo still.

U. S. Magistrate Kirtland L. Mahlum ruled, however, that there was no evidence linking their unproven allegations to the prospect Alamo might do the women harm if he is released on bail while he awaits trial in Tennessee on the tax charges. Without that evidence, Mahlum said, he had to set bail-although he added that he had serious reservations about doing so.

Alamo's lawyer, Jeffrey A. Dickstein, said he expects to post the $50,000 bail in a few days, adding, "We're going to win this tax case."

Alamo, 58, breathed a sigh of relief at Mahlum's ruling. Dressed in jail-issue blues, he rarely looked at either woman during their testimony.

Alamo, who for years has had a running battle with the Internal Revenue Service, was indicted April 19 in federal court in Memphis, Tenn., on one felony count of filing a false income tax return for 1985 and on three misdemeanor counts, alleging that he failed to file returns for 1986, 1987 and 1988.

If convicted, Alamo, a former country singer whose real name is Bernie LaZar Hoffman, could draw up to eight years behind bars.

Alamo and one of his wives, Susan Alamo, built a large religious following during the 1970s and 1980s. Church-owned businesses, relying on the labor of their followers, produced expensive, rhinestone-studded denim jackets and other clothing.

The IRS stripped the Tony and Susan Alamo Foundation of its tax-exempt status in 1985 and has been trying to collect back taxes ever since.

Alamo was arrested Friday while appearing in San Fernando Superior Court in an unrelated felony child-abuse case in which he had earlier been released on bail. He has been in jail since, and federal prosecutors sought at the hearing Tuesday to keep him behind bars pending the federal trial later this year in Memphis.

Susan Alamo's daughter, Christhiaon Coie, 42, testified that her stepfather raped her in 1966, when she was 16. She had not seen him since leaving his house in 1971, she said.

In recent years, Coie said, she had been helping the IRS to investigate him and suspected he knew of her help."

----------------------------------

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

its funny when you hear tony alamos testimony
he speaks about how he hated women before he got saved. doesnt sound like a whole lot has changed now does it. maybe he believes his own lie. maybe he is a repro
yeah if your suppose to line things up with the word of god, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze show me in the bible that jesus was married.
just once pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze. and how is he like jesus again?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

from what i remember about jc he was humble, he didnt defend himself when accused, he healed people,
ok quick comparison

Jesus Christ
Humble
didnt defend himself
healed people that truly wanted it
cast the mud shadows off people
could levitate, dematerialize, and transfigure
did lots of magic tricks like multiplying fish,
water into wine,
wasnt married (what a waste of time)
didnt have kids (too many people already how will they all be saved if you keep creating them)
walked on water
paid his taxes out of a fishes mouth
man the list goes on and on jc was a cool muthatrucka

<font color="ff0000">WORLD PASTOR ALAMO</font><font color="000000">
PROUD, ARROGANT, DEFENSIVE.
SPLIT HUNDREDS OF FAMILIES UP
COVETED OTHER PEOPLES WIVES (CANT GET ENOUGH)
FAT, LAZY, BLIND, LOUD, TOTALLY SELFABSORBED,
RAPIST, TAX EVADER, CANNOT WALK ON WATER
PROBABLY CANT EVEN SWIM, HATES AND ABUSES WOMEN,
EVERYBODYS ALWAYS WRONG BUT HIM, RAN THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF PHONE BILLS UP WHILE IN PRISON STUMBLING OVER SCRIPTURES (AND CALLING IT THE LASTEST FROM GOD HA) BORING, COMPLACENT, EGOSTISTICAL, HAS SO MUCH SICKNESS IN HIS BODY
EVERYONE AROUND HIM IS DYING. WAY TO MANY KIDS BY KIDS

YEP I KNOW WHO IM FOLLOWING TONY ALAMO IS THE NEXT MESSIAH HEY PAPA TONY CAN I MOVE INTO YOUR HOUSE I AM SO IN NEED OF DIRECTION IN MY OWN LIFE </font>

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

most abusers were at one time in their lives abused........tony has low self esteem thats why he feeds of the power of controlling and abusing woman. its funny though how the roles were reversed with susan alamo! lol she bossed him around.......doesn't that say something here people? a very scarred individual we are dealing with.

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

I would whole heartedly agree Holly. People who are the bullies have the greatest need.Fear runs hate.

[kpep (kpep)]

Wow. I found this site by accident-- some crazy stuff here-- I've been hanging around reading for hours. It grieves me that people like Tommy Scarcello are still there -- must be that seared-conscience thing the Bible talks about.

Some of you people who left after I did have some amazing stories to tell.

One of the things I have done over the years is help individuals publish books. And several times I have started books about the foundation. But I was gone before the really gross insanity was in full bloom, so at best I know part of the story, some Crescent Heights stories (cops in the prayer room)Bakersfield stories and a few tree crew tales, along with a few Nashville, Alma, Alamo Christian schools stories ( I lost that job for refusing to discipline a child) --- lots of what I know would be hilarious--- but after about 1 year of seeing the dark-side from the inside of the Spec house, it became clear I could not call myself a
Christian and stay.

Self-publishing is not really expensive. Selling self-published books is difficult, but the kind of a tale that could be built from these posts could very likely get some publicity.

Any non-crazy folks who want to pursue this contact me. The project would require an editing team who could then review one another's work. That team could review submissions for content and interview individuals. I would suggest the book be built on a flash back basis focusing on a handful of individuals-- maybe composite characters to get the flow over 27 years to move more easily, who- together-- saw everything, . Including the never-spoken of witnessing excursions to the whores in France and the cash smuggled out to foreign banks. What a movie this would make! Start with the totally insane here and now, and jump back to Carlos Avenue and head forward.

Any body who wants to pursue this can reach me at http://finishedbook.com/contact.html. It's a temporary page I used for a seminar in December, but it still gets mail to me without subjecting me to an onslaught of spam. We can discuss off the board and designate someone to post messages in a separate thread.

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

wow, wouldnt that be awesome . with the people who were close to him down through the years, call it desciples of deciet or something.
Carol Fryer

[kpep (kpep)]

Survivors of the Alamo-- was my first idea. It would make an awesome movie. But it must carry an unmasked message of hope and faith. The walking wounded need to know that faith in Jesus and His Anointing heals hearts and minds... and that "opposition to tyranny is obedience to God" (good ol' Tom Jefferson said that)

[electricguy (electricguy)]

Chris;
Good response, the point is accept and trust the LORD and love your neighbor as yourself. It is not about the language the Bible was written in but the fact that the Lord gave us the word to believe and follow.
John

[electricguy (electricguy)]

Kpep;
Thanks for the call, I'm on board with Survivors of the Alamo. Let's get the ball rolling.
John

[fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)]

Wow, alot of exchange has gone on since I was last here. Reading over all the posts, particularly those by alamo supporters, the one question that comes to my mind, over and over is this:

Alamo supporters, are the words you have typed here, your testimony before the Lord? Is this the abundance of your heart and soul?

You claim to believe in one thing, the truth of the Gospel, yet, the manner of your speech betrays you; you speak poison. You have forked tongues, and (seem to be) double-minded.

What do you think of the things you are saying? Is your speech becoming, as men and women who proclaim to follow God, who would like others to believe you are somehow superior to us, simply because you are in a ministry (never mind for a moment, the testimonies of dozens of people, who have been hurt in one shape or other, in that so-called ministry).

We've come on here, each one of us former-members, to speak of the experiences we had. Those experiences are as unique to each one of us, as is our hair/eye color, nationality. Yet, because you do not believe in those things which have been shared here, you accuse, slander, demean, antagonize.

They weren't your experiences, and for that, perhaps you should thank God. But don't be so sure that you are somehow better.

Your speech betrays you.

Let's see, shall we, what the Word of God says regarding double-minded people, who as well, like to judge others.

James 1:8
"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

James 4:8-12
"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners:and purify your hearts, ye double minded.(8)
Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep; let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. (9)
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. (10)
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.(11)
There is one lawgiver (NOT TA, btw!!!!!!!), who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?" (12)

James 4:17
"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Maybe you should spend more time talking to God, and less time, thinking up railing accusations and antagonistic insults.

Just a suggestion.