Recovery from the Alamo Foundation

[wilma (wilma)]

I thought I would start a New Thread in case anyone might want to talk about things (practical and spiritual) that helped them get on their feet when they left the Foundation. Some people just left with the clothes on their back. Some people had job skills and others had to start from scratch...that's hard to do when you get out of there and have no resume.

One of the things that helped me after leaving was reading a book by Ken Blue titled HEALING SPIRITUAL ABUSE...How To Break Free From Bad Church Experiences. That book was the BEST!! It's hard to find so you might have to order it from a Bible bookstore or Amazon.com. That book talks about scenarios exactly like the Foundation. I HIGHLY recommend it to anyone who was EVER at the Foundation. The ISBN# is 0-8308-1660-7

Another good book was The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse..Recognizing and Escaping Spiritual Manipulation and False Spiritual Authority Within the Church by David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen.
ISBN# 1-55661-160-9

When I get time maybe I'll share some excerpts.

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Wilma,

Isn't great to know there is life after the foundation? I am lucky that I left when I was 18 years old, so I was not expected to have a huge resume or anything. I was (and am a hard worker) so that got me far in the job market even without a degree. Most all of the "kids" that I talk to now are successfull and happy, leading productive lifes. Most of of us are not bitter, but are gratefull that we got out when we still had a chance to have a life of some kind.

Yes, many horrible things happened there and many still suffer terrible memories of that place. But it is not in the forefront of our minds, it is there and always will be.

This is for the "kids" who have left the foundation... Someone told me this a long time ago when I first left and I have kept it in my heart... "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE THERE, SO DO NOT EVER BLAME YOURSELF" It is so true.

Most everyone who knows me now has no idea I was raised in a cult and went through the things that I did. At first I was a little weird (as you can imagine) but in time, I adjusted to the "big bad world of sin" ha ha.

I hope that more people get on this board and expose TA for what he is. As we all know from being there, it really wont change their minds about him. We didnt listen when people "came against" us.

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

I didnt read any of those books but I did read one that was given to me. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif it showed me there were other people out there with the same things happening to them. That blew my mind cause I thought the foundation was the only place like that. So it made me feel better, that we werent the only ones. I mean there really are other Christians in the World and that is so good to know. Some have gone through the same stuff.But there really are some dedicated people who really love God in this world.

[wilma (wilma)]

Jules, it is great to hear success stories such as yourself. It's been said, "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" (or something like that). I think we are all stronger and wiser from our experiences.

Take care.

[skeptik (skeptik)]

Was anyone here at the Alma campus?

[msweezell (msweezell)]

Many years ago a very wise woman said “Tony will single handily take this church down to the ground.” And it came to pass. How distressing, so many wounded souls crying out… and all at the hand of Tony? The bottom line, a person, to whom much is given, is much required, accountability is inevitable. Most of us little people only stayed as long as we did because of our hopefulness that things would… well, get better...some were fearful of the impending doom financially and spiritually, that we were repeatedly told would certainly happen if we ever did leave.. The rationality of our purpose for being there any longer became nonexistent with every ungodly undertaking Tony imposed upon us and our children. He was our supremacy. Beating children with boards until they bleed, is by far the most atrocious act ever; the effects only induced horrible lasting negative anguish to this day for so many. Our virgin daughters were obediently turned over to Tony to keep him warm and serve his unseemly sexual desires. Not a very conducive atmosphere for sound mental or physical health wouldn’t you agree? Our time, defending and tying to finance Tony’s immoral exploits became a grievous routine. We all knew we had to go. Time to move on, get a life, protect our children and keep it real! Some decided to stay, some just had to be kicked out or they would have never have left and some even returned. The common thread, we all had an impact on each others lives in some way along the journey of life, and we just all happened to meet at the cross. I hold dear to the secret place I found while I was at the foundation; it is my only refuge in a very troubled world and at this stage in my life I find my self there quite often….
Enough said, I will gladly crawl back in my hole….Peace Out…MsWeeZell
Who am I? (first hint) “keepin’ it real in Sunny California

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

Msweezell,
not fair, im not good at puzzels or riddles.

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

OK Msweezell,
are you famillar with a song called
PRAISE THE LORD ????????????
it was one of my all time favorites besides
eternal ages..

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Skeptic,

What is the Alma campus??? I lived in Alma in the foundation. You must not know much about the foundation????

[skeptik (skeptik)]

Campus, compound, same thing. It was on the Ridge. A beautiful view. I visited there many times, but did not live there.

(Message edited by skeptik on October 19, 2005)

(Message edited by skeptik on October 19, 2005)

[helives (helives)]

what and where did you visit on the ridge? what was the purpose of your visit?

[helives (helives)]

Ok Msweezel- not fair, but I think I know who you are in sunny california. Northern or Southern? Here is a good question that will confirm if this is who I'm hoping it is. Did you see Big K several years ago at the Library in LA? You both chatted for a few moments-you were getting married. If this is you - I've wondered for years what happened to you. Glad to know you are alive and well. If this didn't happen to you then you are someone else. then I really have no clue

[skeptik (skeptik)]

I saw the mansion (I did not go inside) and this mausoleum thing. I ate in the cafeteria (the food was not too bad), and had been in this chapel. I even swam in the pool. I didn't do these without close supervision. I didn't even get to do much one-on-one with anyone unless I was accompanied by one of my "overseers." That's a shame, because I wanted to speak directly abnd candidly, get to know them better and what they thought about things.

My purpose was that I went there to go to services, and the services were some hymns, and everybody clapped along. And there were some songs done by individuals in the church. I remember the music director, a guy named Tommy (at times sincere, other times a bit of a showoff). There was also a thing where the kids of the church paraded in choir robes and walked around the church while they sang about "The KIngs Highway."

Then there'd be testimonies, and there'd be a guy who'd preach for a bit (I'd seen Alamo preach a few times, but mostly it was men of the church, and never the same one twice, at least not when I came to visit), followed by an altar call. And then it was over and we'd go up to the ridge for a little bit, and then we'd leave.

[beccasue1975 (beccasue1975)]

<font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"> Well well.... one thing we all can deduct from your post MsWeeZell, you have a great sense of humor! For all those who are slow, but still worth waiting on.... WeeZell as in weasle! You know... Tony's favorite name for anyone and everyone who wasn't a "fuma"! Glad to see so many people doing so well!</font></font>

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Hmmmm, Skeptic I wonder why you weren't allowed to do much "one on one" with anyone without an overseer??? What could they possibly be hiding?? Thats how they operate...they are secretive and keep people in fear. I grew up on the "Ridge", so if you have any questions, feel free to ask, I will set you straight on the facts.

[skeptik (skeptik)]

Well, Jules, where did they get that verse "Abide wherein ye were called" from? I have yet to find that in any version of the Bible.

And what are "God's dark sayings" ?

[skeptik (skeptik)]

And did you know any of the crew assigned to Tulsa?

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Skeptik,

I am no Theologian, so I dont know where those scriptures are. Besides, I have heard that TA changed versions of the Bible since I was there. So, no telling what scriptures they use now.

[helives (helives)]

Skeptik here is the scripture you were asking about - go and read it 1Cor 7:20-24

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

skeptic read the verse before and after: It has nothing to do with where you serve God.
1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. Andso ordain1 I in1 all churches.
1Co 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised.Is any called in1 uncircumcision?let him not be circumcised.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments1of God
1Co 7:20 Let every man, abide in1 the samecalling wherein he was called.ou are called.

[skeptik (skeptik)]

This does explain so much. I mean it. This is very illuminating. Thank you much, very much.

[helives (helives)]

what do you mean "God's dark sayings?"

never heard of anything like that

[skeptik (skeptik)]

Well, it is something that TA had said God told him. Supposedly, God had sent him to various scriptures and explained them, and these were what the Bible called "God's Dark Sayings." But I have a concordance in my Bible, and where it says Dark Sayings, it doesn't seem to apply to this context, so I'm stumped.

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Imagine that...being stumped at something TA said! Dont waste your time trying to figure out what God supposedly said to TA, its all gobbly gook!

[helives (helives)]

I never heard of Dark Sayings! I know God is a God of Light and no good thing will He withhold from those who seek Him. Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find. So Dark Sayings? doesn't ring a bell to me. The Lord is not a God that is far off - he isn't some far away thing that should be dark and hard to understand. He said to learn of Him for He is meek and lowly. It is the simplicity of the Gosple that will confound the wise. So Dark Sayings - I know not what he is talking about
Just pray and ask the Lord to show you and lead you. HE WILL

[skeptik (skeptik)]

Anyway, so yes I visited there and that's what I saw and did.

Does anyone know the Tulsa Crew?

[marty_s (marty_s)]

praise the lord everyone. i'm still alive and well serving the lord here in albany ny. the only thing i can say about the foundation is that i got saved at crescent heights, and spent twelve years there. it's been 23 years since i left there and the only years that were worse yhen the foundation were the 8 years i spent in sin. four of those i spent here in a ny prison, but irededicated to the lord in 1994 and i cherish the last 11 years. god is so good and so merciful.
i thank him for his infinite mercy continually.
and i thank him for the brothers and sisters i have from the foundation. yea tony is nuts but that's nothing new. he was crazy when i was there
that's why i left. nothing he says or does lines up with the word of god. in fact tony is the greatest example of what a pastor should not be.i hope he does read this. i don't worry about that jerk he can't do anything to me. i've got the lord on my side. he doesn't. i've got 3 words for you tony REPENT OR PERISH.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Ok, "Gods dark saying"...?
Well, that is just tony's way of saying that only he could understand them. Tony did this alot, if he could get you to doubt your own ability to hear from the Father. Then but of course, who would you turn to? Ding ding! him.
I don't know where this scripture is in the BOOK, but here it is. And I paraphrase: "Ye have no need of any man to teach you, but the Spirt shall guide you in all things". Well, um tony? Doesn't that kind of negate your authority???

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

Hi Marty
twopilgrims here..or as you say twoblockheads.lol the other pilgrim was just saying yesterday. "i have to call Marty". The other pilgrim has been pretty darn sick. Hasnt been able to work much in the past 6months . Thats from the meds, 6 months to go.
Im not ready to reveal myself, so please dont. I really dont know why. habit or fear

[helives (helives)]

Nfly why are you deleteing your posts? A post on the thread Alamo Foundation that starts with a post from Tom V Smith there is a post from Bill-l date 10/04/05 which calls you by your screen name. However on Tom Smith board as of 10/21/05 ALL the posts that you had posted before 10/04/05 are now deleted! What is going on?

[helives (helives)]

Irish_Jedi why are you removing your posts? On the Alamo Foundation thread that starts out with a post from Tom V Smith. On 10/10/05 Rattlesnake addresses you by your screen name. However all the posts from you before 10/10/05 have been deleted?

[havebrainwilltravel (havebrainwilltravel)]

Skeptic-
by the Tulsa Crew, do you mean Garay, and Parrish, and Espinosa? I don't know where any of them are, but Wilma has some great connections. If you want to get a hold of someone, Wilma's the gal!
Wilma- don't kill me okay?

[havebrainwilltravel (havebrainwilltravel)]

Skeptik-
What do you think has happened to Jedi and Fly?
Kinda freaky how they scooted out of dodge and took their posts with them. That gives me the creeps!
Reminds me of a story where Tony had my husband pretend to be him(TA)when the FEDS were after him.
Like something from a movie.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

What happened? Did people start running away when I showed up? AH man...oh well...either they will be back or they won't, right? Espinosa and his family are living and working in Fort smith, or Ed was last time I saw him. He and I worked at the same company downtown a few years ago. He looked healthy, happy, and content. Very nice man.

[skeptik (skeptik)]

havebrainwilltravel-

I knew Garay, what happened to him?

[havebrainwilltravel (havebrainwilltravel)]

I'm not sure. That's why I'm saying ask Wilma. She is a human database.
Christopher-
I have been praying for Jayden. I wrote you an email, but don't know if you ever got it. We love you guys. Steve and Mana babysitting? Good! Getting them ready for the Holidays! They're going to come and see the six pack at Christmas.
I'll email you later.
Love
Tami
PS--
next time you see your sister, kiss and hug her for me. I love, love, love that girl. She is my personal hero.
(Don't get jealous, Becca Sue. You know I love you truly, madly, deeply!)

[wilma (wilma)]

Skeptik...just to set the record straight...a lot of us posting on here haven't been at the Foundation for 8-10 glorious years so we wouldn't have heard too much about brothers who are still there working and turning in their money to TA. Last I heard Garay and Parrish were still there. Jeff Cleveland had the sense to get out years ago.

When people come out they do talk about the young girls who have DISAPPEARED into Alamo's house. News like that gets around because we are concerned for their safety.

Hope that explains things a little better.

[havebrainwilltravel (havebrainwilltravel)]

Right- Sorry Wilma. I just thought you might know. I have preggo brain, and can't remember a lot of things.

[skeptik (skeptik)]

So if there is a way to get those girls out of there, you have got to do it! Get DHS, Child Welfare, FBI, anybody, even the media. Because TA would be hard-pressed to persuade me that this is what God told him to do.

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

I said to hubby last night that i often thought of just going there and breaking down the door and getting them out. Of course i wasnt serrious as i know i couldnt get that close. but my hub said that it wouldnt do any good unless they wanted to leave on there own. You know that kind of makes sence. I just dont understand how they can stay there. If Niki did it, cant they, or dont they want to.

[smitty (smitty)]

Does anyone know whatever happened to Larry LaRoche or Jerry Achey? I guess I've been away for so long that I've pertty much lost track of the whole cast of characters. (I have been in regular contact w/ Herb Depuy and Bruce &amp; Brenda LaKoffka.

[nikkifarr (nikkifarr)]

twopilgrims, the thing is when you're born into something and then you're actually in the very house that these things go on in and you're constantly being made to believe that the only way to make it into heaven is by staying there and if Tony chooses you and you say no then you will surely go to hell. It makes it really hard to somehow in your own mind decide he's wrong and you have to leave. No matter how miserable you are or how many beatings and sexual relations you have to have. It's like being born in a jungle without any other humans around ( in this case any other normal humans), how would you know that there was a better place unless you had lived it. These little girls were born when Tony had already started to practice his more than one wife religion ... how would they know any different... I just started to nearly cry (very hard for me to cry) after reading that Jackie Garner and Rachel (I'm sure Scheff) got married. They were two of the most beautiful little girls and still are but are now scarred for life and they've gone to a place that you can never fully return from. Poor little Jackie hadn't even started her period yet OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!! This is so bad
twopilgrims, for some reason I was different, I knew I had to get out. I have an uncommonly strong mind and I intend to use to get them out

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Nikki, and everyone else. Have you ever considered talking to a lawyer? If for some reason, he can't be prosecuted criminally(which I know he can!) What about a class action suit?
all those women sued clinton....and they were consenting adults. For certain, the fact that these are young girls too young to know what is even happening, has got to grab somebody by the short and curly's and not let go? I'm tellin y'all...Oprah! She would champion this cause soo fast! So maybe we can't get the law to deal with him, so we shine a national light on this mess. Let people know what is going on and to stay away from that place, and to protect their little girls. Lets see how he abides in the place wherein he was called?....hmm...I think not. in the words of Bob, Get up, stand up!
Stand up for your rights!

[tlthe5th (tlthe5th)]

here to break up all this horrible slander. i want to talk about some real good works that tony has done since i was in the church since around 97 to 2003. tony always said to give street people something to eat whenever they asked for it. i've seen him put out the word of God out (real powerful and the most spiritual messages that i've ever heard taught) freely and hundreds of thousands of souls have found Christ in horribly oppressed nations because of God through him. tony doesn't ask for anything in return. i had a supernatural experience for sure regarding tony one time that i know was from God. nobody brings the message from the 1st chapter of proverbs regarding God laughing at your calamity, etc (proverbs 1:22-33). which are the exact Scriptures God used to reveal Himself to me months before I ever got the literature from Tony while he was still in prison on proven to be false charges. When I think about these truths I know personally to be true it washes all of these posts completely away as misperceptions and untruths. I've seen the work of God being done through Tony and the ministry and felt powerfully the Holy Spirit many times in fellowship with the brothers there and during services hearing messages and testimonies and Tony is a humble man of God I know that for sure. I don't know what you all are. Where's your godly work? where's your ministry and websites? and audio messages bringing wonderful, poweful messages? none of you have ministered anything of any value here at all. you have fallen away and probably have blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

[rattlesnake (rattlesnake)]

Blah! Blah! Blah!
Hate to break this to you tlthe5th.. I have spent some time recently reading some of Tony's websites and listening to his tapes.. guess what... You can go and listen to any one of these so-called preachers that mail out tapes and put preachings etc. by testimonials on the web and all the other crap that Tony does.. all sounds great if you are sucked under his thumb, but guess what!!! They all basically say the same thing, only with the emphasis focused on their particular little cult. Probably a lot of it is plagerized and a few changes put in here and there to make it sound like his own crap. What Tony portrays to those outside of the foundation is also not a snapshot of life inside the foundation. If he did let on what he was really all about, no one would come with in twenty miles of him (except with a shot gun) .. he would likely be stoned to death... oh what a lovely thought!!! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif He is nothing but a wolf in sheeps clothing..
That is very typical behaviour for leaders of groups like this. There is nothing godly or spiritual about Tony.. He is just a good actor in public and he uses it as a means to get what he wants.
Read this and understand once again... Slandering Tony is not blasphemy to the Holy Spirit, it is just one more foot stepping on the head of Satan (TA). And his head will be crushed!!!!!

If Tony is so humble and such a man of God.. why does he not speak for himself? Why does he not come on this board and identify himself in such a manner that it is actually believable that it is him and why does he not stand up to these allegations against him?
You state: "tony doesn't ask for anything in return." How do you figure that? He is screwing little girls and making sure he has lots of variety at that. He is a perverted bastard and he enjoys every moment of it. He probably laughs behind all of your backs that he found a group of followers that are so stupid that they hand their little virgin children over to him on a silver platter and say."Take her Tony.. do with her as you please, rape her, beat her.. whatever it takes, Tony!!!' and he takes the little girls and does exactly that.. and after he has satisfied his perverted sexual needs at some little childs expense and horror... he laughs at all of you that allow it to happen. Do his followers walk around with these words etched on their foreheads? "naive, stupid, gullible"
Tony is a "LOSER" and guess what... he is going to get his own... here on earth... unless he dies real quick and when he goes before God to be judged.. (that will be just before he falls into the lake of fire) Oh, I can hardly wait to hear his yowl of pain as he burns for eternity.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[tlthe5th (tlthe5th)]

like i said, where's your ministry? what are you doing? answer that one. and the Lord teaches us to judge by His Word and I can see that you people are nothings. and i'm not taking sides. it's just obvious. yes, i was there when you were there and i went tracking with your husband in CA and he is a very nice man and I got along very good with him. he was very happy ministering to lost souls on the streets of hollywood blvd. and there you are thinking about yourself. poor you. too bad you didn't get saved while you were there. I was married to someone like you when I first moved into the church. she thought about herself all the time to (total oppisite of what God says to do) and the Lord gave me a real wife who loved the Lord (a Jew) and got rid of that other one. I didn't get along with everyone at the church either but thats the way it goes sometimes. that's how it is when people get to know each other. People like you are horrible and dangerous. Your posting this crap on this board like this. Would you be happy if the government went in there and killed them all along with the children like the government did at Waco. you all are very nieve and false_prophet_detecter, you should get beat with a board maybe it would knock some sense into you. Look at what the government does, they are killing people what was Tony accused of? prove it. idiots.

[smitty (smitty)]

Interesting screen namt "Take the Fifth".Whats the matter..afraid of incriminating yourself? Personaly, my ministry is speaking the truth to others .I'm active in my church and we have a lot of ministries to Mexico, Turkey and Indonesia. We send people out there, not just paper. And while I'm on the subject.... How many cars did you "wittness" to today? I remember that we used to go one-on-one with people on the "Bvld." no just secretly sneaking stuff on to someones wiperblades. Instead of wasting our time, why don't you go relive whatever poor sap that is stuck on watch.He's probably been out there WAY too longhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif. Either that go go back to the kitchen and help them clean pickups.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif. By the way, my name is Tom V. Smith and I'M NOT AFRAID OF EITHER YOU OR TONY.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/angry.gif

[helives (helives)]

We are here to reveal the inner workings of the Tony Alamo Foundation. Facts that we have seen with our own eyes!

I was working in the resturant during the time when the prayer warrior's (these were adults living in the foundation, whose parents had been seperated from their adult kids, and they wanted to see their adult kids to make sure they were ok. Some of the prayer warriors were Mark C, Joey O, Patty G).
The prayer warriors parents gathered outside the front of the resturant. They wanted to see their adult kids who were living at the foundation.
Susan Alamo came in the back door of the resturant, she layed a 6 shooter hand gun down under the front counter, next to the ketsup bottles. She said she was going to blow one of them to hell before their time if they came inside.
For some time before this incident happened Tony &amp; Sue had been denying that we had handguns on the ridge,he would state that the only guns we have are caulking guns. I knew Tony was lying, but somehow I justified Susie having a gun that day. It made me feel special that she trusted me with that information . how sad

(Message edited by HeLives on October 23, 2005)

[smitty (smitty)]

Helives: You are absolutly right on! I was dishwashing at the restaurant at the same time and remember Susan A.laying down a revolver and saying "If they try to come in here, I'g going to send them to Hell before their time!" I absolutly support your statement.

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Hey I just remembered this, thought it would be funny to post... One time, In Nashville, TA came in the Alamo and sat his fat ass down on the couch by the cash register and started chowing down on the popcorn and I think it was Hershey kisses candy. All the bros and sisters were crowded around him (as usual) and of course not were eating because it was Wednesday (the fast day). TA said "hey, why isnt anyone eating, so someone sheepishly said "uh Tony, its Wednseday" TA said (as he stuffed his face with popcorn) "oh well God just told me end the fast" WHAT A FARCE!! as I kid, I saw this with my own eyes, I thought "wow, thats weird". My stomachs been growling all day and he is in here eating! lol

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

Niki, you may be the davidess thats going to kill the goliath.. I commed you.
You know Im not a fighting person, but God help me, Ive thought about this alot, just going there and breaking down the door and getting them out. I know I would never do that, but its just sickning what is going on. And he beats them. That sick evil tomented demon. Tony Alamo made to be taken and destroyed. There is nothing anyone can do to him that can compare to whats wainting for him from God, and it will be final. Well Niki you dont need my approval, but you have it..

[havebrainwilltravel (havebrainwilltravel)]

Wow! Interesting stories, guys.
I wonder if he still puts his wives on twenty eight day fasts. When I was there, we ate less than two days out of the month sometimes. I can't believe we didn't starve to death.
For some strange reason, when we went to visit him in jail, he was as chunky in the gut as ever.
Hmm. Maybe the prisoners are malnourished and their stomachs shrink.
My metabolism was wacked out for years, because my body had gone into hibernate mode. I slept ten hours a day for a very long time... One reason was because I was just so weak I needed to rest.
I can't imagine the nightwatch thing. I know my dad, and a few other people I know are still "hypervigilant." They can't sleep longer than a couple hours at a time. The hours you all kept actually messed with your bodies.
Now that's some Freaky Science.

[beccasue1975 (beccasue1975)]

Tami and Holly and anyone else... a bunch of us are on Yahoo in a chat room... If you want to join us, Instant Message me at BeccaSue226@yahoo.com

[smitty (smitty)]

To Havebrainwilltravel: I still can't sleep over two hours at a time and I've been out for almost 20 yrs.!

[havebrainwilltravel (havebrainwilltravel)]

Well, it turns out that TA fits the phsychological profile of a manic depressive. Oh yeah, and a cult leader. (Take note TA: you are not the only cult leader out there. But then, you knew that didn't you?)
The sick thing is, there are some very good ones (I mean, slick) and he wasn't even that good. He sucks.
I lived at his house. The guy doesn't sleep. He flies into rages at the drop of the hat. Sometimes, from prison, after he did that, he would call us laughing. Just to make sure we were still on his personal mood-slinging roller coaster. Of course we had our faces to the floor repenting, crying, praying (if we didn't fall asleep first.) Personally, I was caught with drool seeping out the side of my mouth a couple times because I was so tired. That was good for a two day fast.
Wild horses, all the money in the world, all the sex, all the alchoho... NOTHING-- could drag me back there. I would never, ever, ever in a rational state of mind choose to be married to such a looser. My heart breaks knowing some of my closest friends are still there and suffering from his insanity and abuse.
btw- did anyone else know he had a taste for S&amp;M stuff?
Fly and the other two need to munch on that. I mean they get off on telling us what TA is doing for God. They left out the part about him lining all the girls up naked and having orgies and stuff. I don't know what made him think I wanted to be part of that, but just as soon as he started talking like that to me, I knew my time was up. In no way was I going to participate. I'd sooner burn in hell.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

you mean like pain and stuff?
God, what an old creep! I knew the real reason he had multiple wives was for orgies, and he used to say that by biblical law you could only ever be with one of them at a time. See, another glaring contradiction right there...

[havebrainwilltravel (havebrainwilltravel)]

Right about now, Tony is having everyone "fast and pray and get a hold of the Lord." Because his fat ass is being persecuted.
When I prayed, and "got a hold of the Lord" I was kicked out (or left, depending on the version.) I took that as a direct answer from God. That is the one thing that Tony got right.
He kept saying "if I let you stay, God will kill my son." Well, I'm gone. Perhaps Sion will grow up to hate his father. I wouldn't be surprised.
Tony bullied all those women around, but I wonder what he'll do with a mini version of himself? Let's see, Sion is thirteen now, this August. Tabor (his wife by Lydia) must be eleven and Jordy will be eleven, too. I guess they'll be eleven In December around the eighth, and Tabor will be elven in late November. All that testosterone floating around is going to come back to bite him.

[helives (helives)]

who is Jordy?

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Is Jordy, little Jordan?

[helives (helives)]

Jordon- who? who is the mom and dad?

[nikkifarr (nikkifarr)]

Jordan is Misheal's son by Kenya. This makes a very hard life for the little boy, for one he is not Tony's son and secondly because he is not fully caucasian.

[joshb (joshb)]

Nikki Farr,
This is Josh. I just found this site and was reading some of the stuff you have been writing. How do you know that my little sister Jackie was married before she was old enought to menstrate? I love my little sis and the rest of my family still there. I haven't seen them in over 12 years. Who is this sick punk <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> that married her? Let me know!!!

[joshb (joshb)]

Christophr19,
What's up bro? Why won't anyone use their real names on these threads. Tell me about my sisters wedding. Everything!!! What punk <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> is going to get <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> up for corrupting my little sis at such a young age to satisfy his phedofile <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>!

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Josh here is my Email.
christophr19@yahoo.com

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Alright, what is going on? I can't edit my own posts, but the board can censor me?

[starksk (starksk)]

Hey Nikki,
Just 'cause someone is not fully white doesn't mean they are going to have a hard life. Come on now girl. I hope I misread that. I thought we were cool. My husband is black. Hell I'm half mexican and half white. My kids are quite the mix breed. But they sure are beautiful. I sent you pics right? Ok well lets not pull the racial card.

[princess_crow (princess_crow)]

Whatever the color or race -- anyone know where Kenya is today? This is Rosie Gamez. We grew up together - okay not literally because he came in at the last, but we were really tight there for the last few years. If ANYONE knows where he is - or probably hidding out, PLEASE - PLEASE tell him Craig Brunotte and I are looking for him, and would love to talk to him. I would really appreciate it!

[wilma (wilma)]

If anyone finds Kenya they need to tell him what Tony is doing to his kid (with Mishael)...see NikkiFarr's post on the main board. Kimi, to clarify, Nikki wasn't meaning anything bad about race....she was referring to the horrible abuse he suffers at Alamo's hands. Tony beats Lydia and Jordan physically and verbally, calling them <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>. Alamo is the racist.

NikkiFarr said, "Jordan is Misheal's son by Kenya. This makes a very hard life for the little boy, for one he is not Tony's son and secondly because he is not fully caucasian.

Just wanted to clear that up for NikkiF's sake.

Kim, I bet your kids are really beautiful and I hope to see pics before too long.

Rosie, congratulations on your upcoming wedding.

Darren, Denise, welcome to the board. So good to hear from you. The world wide web is great, huh!!!!

I can't wait to see who else will stumble on to this site.
MamaCurry, am I happy to see you!!!!!

I am heading to snow country, to visit extended family, for a few days and don't know if I'll have internet access, so if not, you'll be hearing from me when I get back.
Later, Susie G

[neasie (neasie)]

Susie G

WOWWY! A blast from the past...Susie was Little but Susie Groulx(sp). That just put a smile on my face. How is your family? When I left you had had Micah and Jesse. Catch me up...

Neasie(Denise)

p0g0sgirl@yahoo.com

yahoo id p0g0sgirl

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Rosie! remember when you taught our class?
I thought you were the coolest. I was crushin' just a little.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif
Are you telling me, Craig from the ridge?
Weren't you all dating on the ridge? Or am I suffering from brain fog?
it is great to see you, and your sisters on here
I have a little boy now. iF anyone wants pics....yahoo me at christophr19

[mylilboynme4ever (mylilboynme4ever)]

Hi Everyone,
How is everyone doing?I am new on here,and I'm only on here to find out about Amy Eddy.Does anyone know her?If so could you tell me what has happened to her please.I've heard that this guy TA has abused and beatin her really bad,and that there is a chance that she might have been killed.I really need to know,it's important that I find out what I can about her.Please if anyone can help me.Thanks for listening..

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

I wonder if Diane, Kenyas mother would be interested in knowing about her grandsons abuse.
i wonder where she is ..

[mylilboynme4ever (mylilboynme4ever)]

Well i guess no one else can tell me anything about Amy Eddy...but thanks anyways

[nikkifarr (nikkifarr)]

Hey mylilboynme4ever blatantly ask user nfly on the main message thread. She or it claims to know quite a lot about Tony's innerworkings currently I dislike what this person says very much but maybe you can get some kind of a recent response from her but you need to go on the Alamo Foundation board.

[nikkifarr (nikkifarr)]

starks I just read your post and I e-mailed this to you immidiately I'm posting it just so everyone else is clear on this....No, no, no I'm so sorry that my post looked like I was saying something that I wasn't! I should have worded it better. While in Tony's house I learned that he is very racist, prejudice etc. and because of that Jordan who is beautiful and will be extremely handsome and would have no problem with oppurtunities in the real world was deeply ridiculed by Tony for a couple of awful reasons and him being like 1/4 black was one of them.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to you yet things have just been crazy lately I mean crazy I'm working ridiculous hours and trying my damnest to get these posts out so things can get started with the stopping of the monster (who happens to be very racist)
You're children are absolutely beautiful!!! I mean that with the utmost sincerety they're beautiful.
Write back if you like catch ya' later... hope I cleared things up

>

[princess_crow (princess_crow)]

Chris, you remember me teaching you guys? Those are some of my fondest memories. Probably because it made me want to become a teacher - and that is what I have been for the past 14 years. I taught in a preschool. You know, I felt so sorry for you boys. Most of the 'adults' had labeled you guys as the bad kids, and me being the new teacher on the block, well let's just say I was nominated to take you on. I really did learn so much, I hope I made some kind of positive impact on you guys. As for the crush thing - yea I know for sure about 8 of you little guys had one. I thought that was cute. But as an 'adult' I left it at that. I didn't try preaching to people about it being okay.
BUT - moving on - I am no longer in the teaching field. I was offered a different type of work - and couldn't pass up the opportunity. I now work with Financial Advisors and Brokers, in the retirement field. It is a complete change, but I enjoy it!
As for Craig Brunotte, let me clear one thing up. So many people wanted to start rumors, they didn't have soap operas to watch you know, so starting them up with me and Craig was easy to do, seeing that he was male and I was a female! However, let me just say, he has been like my older brother for almost 18 years now. He has been there for me when I thought no one else was. He has helped me in more ways than I can explain. And yes, he is happily married to a wonderful woman who I adore. They have 4 beautiful children, and they are all coming to my wedding next week. He is one of my dearest friends, but let me tell you - dating or anything of the sort, was not a factor. Hope EVERYONE got that http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
I am at work - gotta get off before I get caught - I will email those of you who sent your email addresses. THANK-YOU! Just bare with me, things are a little hectic this next week.
big D, Sue is coming in afterall http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif but please don't hold me accountable for any wrong doing - I want to say ahead of time, it was HER fault!!

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Rosie,
yeah, I understand what you mean about the rumors. I am glad to hear that you had such a good friend in craig, as I have found some of my best friends to be of the opposite sex. Always platonic... Congratulations on your upcoming marriage! That is wonderful! Well, talk to ya later Teach!

[forestbrain (forestbrain)]

Using the Word of God, in the NT:
1Ti 3:2
"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of ONE wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"
man, Tony isn't one of those. That nixes Tony's little "God said I can have more than one wife", becaue God can't contradict His Word. (this is just to those who would like to reply to the Tony defenders).

[jewels81475 (jewels81475)]

Tony and his 85 wives, what a b. I remember back when I was twelve years old, my sister Theresa lived in the compound in Nashville. She and Syl (spelling may be off, he was one of the biggest and nicest black men I have ever known in my life)were out tracking. Well he witnessed to a girl and the girl gave him a kiss on the cheek because he'd brought her to the Lord. It got back to Tony and he made Syl go on a 30 day fast. By the time he came off the fast he looked like a crackhead and couldn't eat anything but baby food for the first couple of weeks. It was sad, I can remember seeing that at twelve years old. If Tony had to go on a fast for all his sins(which syl didn't sin in any manner, his wife was there also) he would have starved to death back in the seventies as it's being revealed. He just makes me ill, my sister won't go to church now because of the scars from the foundation. I am glad i've found a good church where the people are honest and we love eachother and Heavenly Father. Just my two cents for the moment.

[neasie (neasie)]

I have often wondered if I am the only one who finds it hard/impossible to go into a church. I personally do not go to any kind of church. I don't know what my belief of God is these days. I just know if that he/she does exist, that he/she does not exist inside the walls of the Alamo Foundation.

Most Honestly

Neasie(Denise)

[princess_crow (princess_crow)]

Yea Denise, unfortunately, that is the case.
My husband-to-be has actually stated that he wants to start going somewhere, but him being an ex-Catholic and me being from the church -- well that is a very hard medium. So, we visited one, and I made him walk out in the middle with me. Forgive me Lord, but I just wasn't feel'n it! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

[summer4ever (summer4ever)]

Denise and Rosie...
I know the feeling. I feel closer to God in nature than in any church. I don't trust anyone who claims to be "of God."
Is that really such a bad thing? Think about it...

Each of us have to account for our own actions on judgement day, right? No pastor will be there on our judgement day saying, "Oh, my bad. Put that one on me God. I steered her wrong."

I know I look at things a little different than most, but at least this way, I made all my decisions (right or wrong).

I do miss the hymns though...

Jody

[forestbrain (forestbrain)]

Yer best bet is to read the Bible. Churches aren't even close to being godly.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Jody,
you too? I always wondered if I was alone on that one, I find myself quietly singing songs from the church; and I am always dissapointed when I go to a new church, and they don't know any of the songs I remember.
Mrs. Larrison, Mr. and Mrs. Hunt, Roger green, etc...I miss their singing.
BTW, if you all remember Jesse and TJ Green, They are both doing fine, and Jesse has a little girl now. He has grown up into a very tall, quiet(sometimes), extremely nice young man. I worked with him shortly before I left arkansas, was really good seeing him again.

[smitty (smitty)]

I have finaly managed to get back to attending a church on a regular basis, but I still have times where the pastor will inadvertently use some phrase or other that T.A. would use, and then it's like a fire alarm city inside my head...I.ve been able to get stuff cleared up by talking w/ him afterwards, but I still like to maintain some distance.

[iasmann (iasmann)]

I think it's hard for almost everyone to find a church. The foundation really was a move of God. But as the Bible says "...one sinner destroyeth much good."

I remember when I first left the foundation I was really grieved in my spirit. I couldn't understand how someone who at one time had been so mightily used by God could be such a weasel. I began to pray very fervently and earnestly for the answer.

About two weeks later I went to at a little church in Arlington TX and the Lord answered me. The preacher was giving a message on Judas Iscariot. The very first time that he mentioned the name of Judas the Lord spoke to me and said,

"There's your answer. Judas walked with me and talked with me. He saw far greater miracles and wonders than Tony has ever seen and he betrayed me. It's no new thing. Get over it!"

I can't tell you how wonderful it felt to get that message from the Lord. It put everything in perfect perspective and enabled me to get on with my life.

Just as God turned Judas's betrayal of Christ into the greatest victory of all time I know he can and will turn Tony's betrayal of our trust into the greatest victory of our lives if we'll just hang in there and keep the faith.

I know God called us all to the ministry and I know He'll do great things through us if we'll continue to seek his face. Of course Tony's little gremlins will get on with the "where's your ministry?" stuff. But the real question is where's his?. He doesn't have one at all. He's like Samson. The Lord has departed from him and he doesn't even know it.

All he has now is a cult. He comes down on the Pope but the Pope is a far better cult leader than Tony. The pope has got about a billion followers Tony has around 20. So even as a cult leader he's a miserable failure. In fact I would say he's the most miserable failure I've ever known. He's failed as a Christian, as a cult leader and as a human being.

He's filled with hatred for himself and everyone else. Anytime he sees any one with a little virtue he has to destroy them. Nfly and Ivy and the others that are posting for him. It won't be long before you regret these posts. Most of what you are saying is his words. But he allows you to throw in a few of your own. Right now it makes you feel good about yourself. You bask in the glow of Tony's approval to your little additions like little puppy dogs wagging their tails at the masters feet. Tony smiles and feels very benevolent about himself for granting such undeserved approval to the wretches before him. Later you will be rebuked for trying to take over or being puffed up etc. and be called all kinds of names and maybe even beaten depending on how much of a rage he's in. The Bible says "anger resteth in the bosom of fools." I've never met a man who can fly into a rage over nothing as quickly as Tony. Remember also that "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God."

"Oh, but he writes all this wonderful literature"
That's just how he kills time between orgies while he's waiting for his next dose of viagra to kick in. Everything he writes is in the letter anyway and the letter killeth.

I must admit I'm having fun with these posts. But I know they won't change Tony. After all if he won't listen to the Father, the Son or the Holy Ghost I know he won't listen to me. Still some of his followers who are reading these posts might get convicted and repent. I certainly hope so.

Ian

(Message edited by iasmann on October 29, 2005)

[iasmann (iasmann)]

By the way, I will confirm something Tony said years ago about the Vatican. I heard from a very reliable source that on his deathbed John Paul II warned the new Pope about Tony Alamo.

He said that Tony is the greatest danger to the Catholic Church and must be stopped. He told Pope Benedict that the Catholic Church had to get away from it's image of molesting little boys but that they couldn't because Tony was scooping up all the little girls!

Ian

[ivy (ivy)]

Sorry Mr Mann but Satan is not a reliable source.

[iasmann (iasmann)]

Then why do you listen to Tony?

[ivy (ivy)]

For an older man, you sure are childish. You are the one who said you had an reliable source... you know you are a liar and yet you claim to be a christian... then you blame Tony for your lust. Well, one thing is for sure. When we are all judged, we will not be able to blame anyone for anything. You can't even blame the devil. You make your own choices. That was an easy cop out. But, it doesn't work.
Furthermore, i really feel sorry for your son who is out there in this war. I hope he is safe.Why didn't you talk him out of it. He should not be there doing Bush's dirty work!!!!! May God bring him back safe and sound. He is older than myself and I was not around him but I do remember him at some birthday parties when we were small.

[iasmann (iasmann)]

Apparantly you didn't read my post or probably you feel that it is so far back now that no one will remember what I said and you can twist it like you always do.

I said, I repented which means that I acknowleged before God that I had sinned and I asked his forgiveness which I received. Is that a cop out to you.

In case you forgot that's why Jesus died on the cross.

I'm confused about the Vatican thing. Tony said that he was the greatest threat to the Vatican today and that no one had done them more damage since Martin Luther. Are you saying that is not true. Tony was my source for that The Pope was only agreeing. So if the Pope agrees with Tony and the Pope is a liar what does that make Tony?

[ridge_kid (ridge_kid)]

Hi, I am not going to identify myself because I have loved ones who are still members. I was just wondering if anyone knows what happened to Gina, Bobbie Jo, or Sean.

[ivy (ivy)]

Rattlesnake, if you really believe that stuff is happening (which it is not) then why don't you go and rescue your loved ones? WHY??? I know that if my loved ones were living a terrible life I would go and do something about it. You are hiding your identity to save your loved ones??? how does that work?

[rattlesnake (rattlesnake)]

Ivy:
I am working on it if that makes you feel better. Exposing my identity could very easily put them at greater risk of abuse. Not many on this board would know me personally anyhow so there is little point of putting loved ones at risk whle in the process of trying to help them, is there? I hope that answers your question.

[summer4ever (summer4ever)]

Chris,

I used to listen to some old tapes just for the music. I loved the songs. I loved listening to the choir sing, Hallelujah, The Old Rugged Cross, Oh Happy Day… I sooo need to add you to my IM. I think we would really enjoy talking with each other http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Ian, Please tell Ann I said, Hi. I don't know if she will remember working with me or not in the office.

Jody

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

As long as one is in the Foundation and their free will is to listen to and choose to beleive Tony is telling them the truth....there is a veil over their eyes....and no one looses that veil till they choose to be free and decide not to listen to Tony anymore...I know because its what I experienced....I feel auful for the state of deception many are still in....but theres hope and prayer still works.
God still doesnt force people ....they do what they choose and they live with the consequences or die with them. But we can also always choose to change our minds and ask Jesus help....Hes always there and still forgives .

[summer4ever (summer4ever)]

Although I truly have enjoyed catching up with most of you, I must leave this room.
I have to get back to my life.

Tony,
I ask you to stand back and look at yourself in the mirror. Look what you have become. You have become such a poor excuse for a man, much less a preacher.
You break up families, abuse women and children, and rape little girls. That is not a World Pastor of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You know what you did to me was wrong on so many levels: Biblically, morally, and legally. You hurt me and you know you did.

I have forgiven you for the pain you caused me. I hope, before it is too late, you will ask forgiveness from your Maker.

"And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." (Mark 9:32).

Please read that scripture slowly for your own good. It does apply to you, me, and everyone else.

I do stand behind everything I stated in the post about what happened to me.
I stood behind it 11 years ago, and I will stand behind it as long as I live.
Whoever asks, I will tell them. I will not lie for you or for your church. I will not lie to the devil. I will not lie to God. I will not lie to others.

There is one thing I have in my life now that didn't have when I was there. It is peace.
I want to keep it that way.

Anyone that wants to catch up with me, you have my email address...

Jody

========== The post I am referring to here =========

I know this is long, but please take the time to read this if you would like to know what happened to me.

Most of this (if not all) was told to the Justice Dept back in 1994.
I was moved out to California when I was sixteen. Larry and I did not get along at all at the time (this was not uncommon), so Tony offered to have me live with a family (Rodriguez Family) out in California. Before I knew it, I was living in Canoga Park and helping Evie, Gina, Terry (Anna D's Sister) with the jackets.
Shortly thereafter, I started working as a tutor to some of the children. I worked with Anthony and Brandon, Tony B., and others. They were great kids!!! It was strange that I was tutoring them because I had not completed over 10th grade (the Georgia ridge raid).
I did love to read though, and Lord knows there was a shortage of books around the church, so I read Algebra, English, and so on. I became self-educated as did many of the children in the church.
Even on the ridge, we really didn't have a good school system in place. Remember guys, we would have school for four hours (just basic courses too -- everything else that encouraged our minds to think had been stripped from the curriculum), then we would go to work on the jackets.
As I had stated, I lived with the Rodriguez family in California. Nikki worked in Tony A?s house with Ann. As a teenage girl, I idolized Nikki R. and she worked with the pastor. She seemed to be quite a strong woman. So I wanted to do what she did. I began working in Tony's House with Nikki and Ann.
My first night working at Tony's house was hilarious!!!! I remember Tony was mad at Ann about something so silly. He worked himself into a frenzy and began calling her names, lesbian, •••••, etc.
Okay... I had always looked at Tony as "papa Tony" as the others had. But I clearly was seeing a different side. I always knew he had a disciplinary (abusive) side because of the Spec House beatings (YES -- The beatings did happen!). I was raised to believe he was the only one in the world to get messages from God. This is when I began to doubt about that. In my logical mind, I was thinking: Ann is married with a kid. God seriously cannot be calling her a lesbian or a female dog. Not that I entirely knew what a lesbian was, but I knew it was horrid behavior strictly forbidden that was between two women.
As time went on, Tony began talking about polygamy and the Old Testament quite a bit. I noticed Tony slowly introduced the topic and then began pushing it more and more. He would get some crazy idea in his head and then tell us to look for the scriptures to back it up. I used to argue scriptures with Tony quite a bit about this issue and others. I really didn't feel right about how things were going.
Shortly thereafter, he married Lydia - almost immediately putting her in ward. In case any of ya'll out there are not familiar with ward. It is when a man puts his woman away (does not have sexual relations with her). I really couldn?t tell if Lydia was upset about this or not. Then Tony began talking about the flames of hell and how someone in the room wasn't listening to God and marrying him and such. Well, the only other person in the room besides me would be him on most occasions when he would talk about these things.
After hearing him say all this stuff, how I was going to die very shortly and go to hell. I finally told him crying that I lived my life for God and I wanted to do God's will.
He then made arrangements to take me to Palm Springs to "marry" me.
I was terrified and asked to call my mom back in Arkansas. Tony told me I could not and he would make sure I never saw my family again unless I "consummated" the marriage. He even threatened to have some of the "brothers" drive me out to the desert and leave me there unless I slept with him. It was February 15th. Niki R. was there in Palm Springs. She knew how awful it was for me. I was dry heaving and couldn't sleep for days (found out lack of sleep was something I needed to become accustomed to later). The consummation didn't happen for a while, but I knew he would sooner or later force himself.
That did happen, and at first it was awful. I would cry the whole time. But in time I learned a very valuable trick on "my nights" with Tony. I learned how to separate myself from myself. I would actually allow my mind to take me elsewhere during that time. That is why he went around telling people that sleeping with me was like sleeping with a corpse and that I didn't like sex so something was wrong with me. Tony was very careful when he took me for a wife. He didn't want the church to know because the idea of polygamy wasn't accepted by his following yet. It later became pretty common knowledge around the church.
Anyway, after a few months went by, I saw Tony take, Isabel, Misheal (breaking up their marriage and taking her for himself), Tami (breaking up their marriage and taking her for himself as well), and Angel.
Things ended up happening towards the end of my time with him to show me that he wasn't a man of God at all. He wasn't even a real man. There were always things said and done that made me question his behavior, but then things started becoming so blatantly wrong, I couldn't make up any excuses in my head (or find reasoning in the scriptures) to justify his behavior.
There was an incident when I knew that I HAD done something and he was saying I hadn't. I said to him, "You say you can talk to God, Ask Him if I did?" He bowed his balding head and pretended to pray. Then looked up and said God had told him I didn't do it. I told him that he was lying. That was a loud, abusive day at the house.

Tami if you are reading this, Remember when he would have us burn receipts for different things in the little fire pit back on the house of Meadow Ln? I kept some of them and many more things to incriminate him. I put them in a box under my bed. After I left, I asked for my stuff back (my clothing and personal items).
Tony sent Evie and her boys to the restaurant where I worked and dumped the boxes at the front door during business hours. But in one of the boxes, were all the receipts for "wedding rings" and other things like the hotel receipt from Palm Springs that he signed when checking us in for our "marriage" under one name Funny, he actually gave me (after I left), some of the evidence the Justice Dept. used against him in court later. What a dumb @ss!
Also, for anyone wondering? Although I had been subpoenaed on the tax evasion trial, I did not testify because the government thought I would make a hostile witness. Although I told them the truth from start to end, I kept saying, "I know Tony did this but the scripture says this or that." The government thought this could hurt their case, so they quizzed me on things and then sent a special agent to testify as me on the stand.
I still wasn't 100% convinced this man was evil.
I even went over to the house to talk to him one day after I had left. He then told me about Lizzy and because she was so small, it took her three days for him to break her in. He also told me that if I didn't confess my sins to everyone in the room I would die within two minutes. I actually smiled and told him he would be the first to go. Well, after two minutes, I was still there and he was about to look like a fool. So he then decided it was the Lord's mercy on me that I was still sitting there, but if I didn't repent I would die within 2 years. Well that was a decade ago. I assure you this is Jody, and I am not back from the grave...
It did kind of remind me of the time he went around telling people God told him I was pregnant. Well, after he announced it to a room full of people, I called him aside and told him I definitely was NOT pregnant. He then stated God put a lying spirit in him to mess with me to show me how I mess with others.
Does anyone remember when he used to try to predict what the sex of the unborn child was when a woman was pregnant? It worked out for him a couple of times. But then the odds caught up with him and yes, he started getting them wrong.
Anyway back to the trial. It wasn't until after he wrote the tract about me calling my mom a prostitute that I dropped the "buts" and realized that he was 100% wrong and corrupt. So I did testify at the sentencing hearing.

And for anyone that wants to call me a whore, ••••, or anything else like you have Nikki F (I am sorry for your pain, Nikki). I had never kissed anyone, and I surely did not know what the act of sex entailed before that experience. We kids never had a sex ed class, nor did I think about things like that for fear God would hear my thoughts and strike me down in His fury.
Oh, the fear we lived in. I thank God I am free.

Jody

[iasmann (iasmann)]

I looked up Beccasue on e-bay. Here's what I saw. Everything she bought she paid for instantly. She didn't deliver on some stuff she sold so she refunded the money. No thievery here. Whether she lied about a death in the family or her computer being broken no one can prove. It's certainly possible that both did occur.

Let's see how Tony stands up under the same scrutiny.

Not too well! First of all he went to jail for lying on his tax return and not paying his taxes. This is a matter of public court record. He says he was railroaded by the Vatican because of his strong stand blah, blah, blah. But court evidence which is now public record shows he's lying. He declared a substantial income when applying for various loans for cars and other things. But declared no income on his tax return. (Later he stated that benefits he got from the foundation totalled 500 a month. Which wouldn't even pay the electric bill on his huge house on Georgia ridge. Around 10,000 square feet.)
So we have conclusive evidence that was presented to a jury proving that Tony is a liar. He signed both the loan apps showing substantial income and the tax return showing no income. As I said this is a matter of public record and can be verified by anyone.

Beccasue paid for everything she bought.

Not so with Tony. Remember all those cement trucks you bought Tony. Around half a dozen wasn't it. Tony wouldn't make the payments. He put Bob Streit down at the batch plant to watch for the repo man. Streit was one of the biggest bruisers in the foundation and would be more than a match for most repo men. But the Lord put a deep sleep upon Streit and the other person with him. When he awoke the trucks were gone. Repo'd because Tony wouldn't honor the contract he signed.

So now we have conclusive evidence that Tony is a thief as well.

There are hundreds of foundation creditors who will tell you the same thing. Tony never paid his bills.

Finally he got so far in debt he had to declare bankruptcy. Of course before he did it he got on the pulpit and declared he would never file for bankruptcy. The Lord would make a way but the Lord did not make a way because he had departed from Tony and Tony didn't even know it. When he did file it was done in secret. This time he stiffed everyone he owed money to.

There is much more and I could go on.

This post is not for Alamosupporter or Ivy or the others. It's for those who get on this website and see all this finger pointing and don't know who to believe. It's another case of Tony lying and stealing that can be verified from independant sources just like the "Messiah" book.

Again I know it pales in comparison to the other things he is now doing but it is another opportunity for those who care to see who is really the liar.

[iasmann (iasmann)]

alamosupporter,

Thanks for your post about the wine and marijuana.

I had completely forgotten but Tony was arrested and spent a night in the tank for being drunk and disorderly in public. Tom Barnett dropped him off at some club or something like that in Beverly Hills. Later he came home by himself acting very mysterious. The next AM Tony called from jail and had Tom come and pick him up. Again this can be easily verified as it is a matter of public record.

I enjoy your posts alamosupporter keep em coming.

[alamosupporter (alamosupporter)]

iansmann--- yeah, you know what? beccasue was paying for items with the people's money she stole. iansmann, you must have selective vision. I call bias. Anyone can and should look at beccasue's eBay site. do you want me to copy and paste every remark there left by people she ripped off? maybe a little later I will. iansmann, you are just siding with a liar as well. Maybe just putting your foot in your mouth again as beccasue stated you do alot and is your version of christianity. being unconverted as Peter was when he denied the Lord before being endued with the power from on high. You still haven't denied this all. So from a worldly perspective you are all O.K. but for someone like me who's striving for godliness you all fall horribly short. taking the side over a liar rather than the truth even in such a seemingly small issue just proves that you would do it for more serious and larger lies. iansmann, you were in that church for what, over 20 years? why don't you share some of the godly, powerful testimonies that you saw take place there for the edification of the Lord? people coming to the alter weeping from falling under conviction from the Holy Spirit through annointed preaching? you traitor. you judas iscariot antichrist devil. you are all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth that will be heard forever and ever. you are all wailing already, "but tony, but tony" you worms!!!
lol!!! God's going to laugh at your calamity and we'll be laughing right there with Him.



oh that's good iansmann, just make chris19 feel good about his weed smoking/twisting scripture. you are so far gone. i wonder if all the people out in radio land would agree with your methods. well, they probably would because that's probably the type audience you pull. unconverted, unregenerated sinners like you and the rest of you. beccasue, jody, double_j, chris19, and many others who are walking in utter darkness coming on here drunk, stoned, insane throwing all kinds of acco's they have heard or greatly exagerated stories of things that might have happened.
a guy i know at work didn't like how the company had installed cameras on the job pointing at us watching us working so he took a stick and moved the camera. well, as the story passed around when it got to me it turned into that he hit a casual with a stick. you people are idle babblers, i heard this, i heard that, blah blah blah as iansmann so eloquently puts it. you're all like a pack of dogs, licking each others wounds. too bad you don't have God for comfort. you have to come here and tell your sob story. how terrible. poor you. feel better? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif

[double_j (double_j)]

Alamo supproter wrote to me....

"why should we believe you Jared? you're probably just another liar like rebeccasue turned out to be. tony probably hurt your feelings by asking you to leave his church and now you're tramatized over it. Jared, Tony has rules there and you didn't want to keep them and he asked you and your whole family to go." that's all I've seen Tony do, put people out. so now you're disgruntled and into satanic music and
believe there are other gods and obviously have a wild immagination according to someposts I saw you leave on another Christian website saying "would it be ok to kill 300 people, would I still go to heaven?" that's just a crazy question. I wonder what the FBI would say about that. Are you considering killing 300 people Jared? why would you ask such a question? to see his question just go here. ->
http://www.christian-forum.net/lofiversion/index.php/t562.html

WELL FIRST OFF....I dont go around asking questions about god....ever think there is more than one Double J out there in this world????/ Nice try. And no I dont need to lie about it.....Cuzz I dont give a crap. It should be very apperant from all my other posts I dont ask questions about why God did this or what ever that crap is on that web site....#1 ...I never heard of that web site....# 2...not my cup of tea to go to christain web sites....Id rather watch the weather channel than debate God with you or some other moron...... most definately another Double J.....
As far as me being disgruntled....Aaaahhh Hardly...lol. No I am not. As a matter of fact, I am happy, with 4 beautiful children (that will not and dont get beaten), I have a great job and a family that loves me....I'd say thats pretty content.....Wouldnt you?????


You said "Tony had rules" and I "didn't want to keep them, so he aasked me to leave" HA ..... is thats what he told you? Well if so, then yet another lie from him. Actually, I was accused by Glen Grickson of throwing an grapefruit out of a bus window, and hitting a winshield and cracking it. I told Tony Alamo I wasn't the one who did it....Tony Alamo said..."GOD TOLD ME IT WS YOU AND YOU ARE LYING".

Problem is....I didnt do it....Even Levi Willis said I couldnt of done it, cuzz I was sitting next to him. However Tony insisted the LORD was telling him I did it....(it wasnt the Lord he was talking or hearing)....He ordered me to recieve 70 swatts. I said no...I wasn't going to get them, cuzz i didnt do it. He then told me I was getting kicked out. Put me on a plane the next day, and had me fly to LA to meet my parents...... You know, I probably would have taken those swats that day, If I had really thrown that orange/gapefruit.......But I did not do it. Tony Alamo is a liar and a fake.

As far as ME being a liar....Ummm NO... There is not much I hate....But a liar is one of them.

These things happened not only to myself, but to my friends, and my brother when we were involved with the Alamo Foundation bac in the 80's.

Now lets get back to the fact that none of these Tony Alamo supporters will address the main issues on this board. That is the CHILD ABUSE issue, and the polygamy issue.....It seems that every time an Alamo supporter or wife or someone posts, they only quote scriptures and avoid the direct issue of the beatings that took place on the Ridge in Arkansas and the multiple wives or concubines that Tony Alamo has.

That is great that people write letters to Tony Alamo and thank him for helping him...... Thats great that people survived, when they were
down and out. (I believe that would be by Gods graces though that they are still alive not a mans graces....but who am I to say) Thats great
that people in other countries have found Christ, and feel better about their lives. I wonder if they know that Tony Alamo is married to more than one woman? All these people posting on here talk about how good Tony Alamo has treated them, and we all know how good he can quote scriptures, still it does not change that fact that Tony Alamo
practices polygamy.

Now lets talk about the child abuse issue for a minute...

All these letters from people who are thanking Tony Alamo for them
finding God,and bring Christ into their lives, still does not change the facts that Tony Alamo ordered many CHILDREN back in the 80's to be
beaten with a board....( I don't know if he still does this these days, for I had enough back in the 80's and said no more, and we got kicked out) Some were beaten so badly they were bleeding. (this I know because it happened to my brother) There were times I was beaten so badly It would take me a minute (literally a minute) or more to sit down, and every time I would move, the pain would course though my body. I would be black and blue on my butt for weeks at a time. I remember one time I was hit, I believe it was 40 times, it may have been 70 but think it was 40 times with a board for holding my breathe in class and I passed out in the class room. Luckily,when I fell
backwards (unconscious) my head hit a pile of books that were on the floor next to my desk, otherwise my head would have probably split
open from hitting the tile.....It was a stupid trick I know, but I had just figured out by dong this you could make yourself dizzy, and was
showing it to my classmates. I got BEATEN at Tony Alamos house for that. It may sound like a childish and foolish thing to do (holding
your breathe to get dizzy) but at the time I was only a child. I believe I was 13 years old when this happened. . Did that really deserve to beaten with a 2x4? Holding your breathe in class.... Man what a horrible sin against God.

Post all the letters (whether they are true or fake)....What does that have to do with the fact that many children were severely beaten
at the hand of Tony Alamo or beaten after given the orders from Tony Alamo back in the 80's at the Ridge, inside Tony Alamos "Spec House"?

Tony Alamo will be eventually be held accountable in a court of law. You can not beat children and then just think that you can get away with it by quoting scriptures and calling people whores, homos, imps,devils, back-sliders, punks...etc....... It does not matter if it was
15+ years ago or not. I finally have built up enough courage to tell just part of my story and tell some of the stories of others I know
who have been beaten or abused at the Alamo Foundation back in the 80's at the hands and orders of Tony Alamo. Did Tony Alamo and Susan Alamo help young and old, destitute and broke
people get on their feet and find God.... .Yes.....Did Tony Alamo
order those peoples children to be beaten back in the 80's.... Yes It doesn't matter how long ago these children were abused, and I am including myself....the fact is he still had children beaten, and some times these children were beaten to a bloody pulp. By LAW they were physically abused. Tony Alamo can still be, and probably will be charged for some of these crimes that he has committed against children. Call me all the
names you want. Yes I am a backslider, yes at times I can have a foul mouth.......That still does not change the fact that many children
were beaten at the Alamo Foundation at the orders of Tony Alamo. That is a fact. It will remain a fact.

Double J...AKA - Jared Balsley (and yes there are other double j's in the world)
Go ahead ...Im waiting for the attack on me..... Tell me how Im a Imp, big mouth, call me a liar, say Im disgruntled.....Fact is....Tony Alamo has abused far too many children, I will continue to post what happened to me, my brother and my frieds until this lunatic is stopped.

[brite (brite)]

hi everyone

[songpluger (songpluger)]

HI brite

[havebrainwilltravel (havebrainwilltravel)]

Hi Brite and Songplugger. I have to go read my kids a bed time story, but Alamo supporter is on the other boards just posting away. Anyone wanna go check out what they're saying?
I'd love to but this kitchen's a mess!

[brite (brite)]

how is everyone tonite

[brite (brite)]

H.B.W.T.god bless you i remember many services with ur mom and dad it is great to hear you and family are safe in the lord.im trying to get aholdof m borek he knows me i was his offically his last B.C.on the ridge.his mentoring helps to this day.

[songpluger (songpluger)]

I guess I better go to, I been reading some of the old posts for awile now, trying to catch up on whats going on on this site. I gota be in dallas early leavin about 4am so I'll try yall monyana.

[songpluger (songpluger)]

yea Alamo supporter looks like a cut &amp; paste same post on all threds tonight, same thing over &amp; over over &amp; over over &amp; over over &amp; over over &amp; over over &amp; over http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

[ivy (ivy)]

OH NO, YOU ARE THE CREEPS WHO HAVE BEEN REPEATING YOURSELVES SINCE THE 80'S. OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Ivy, We will continue to expose the sick perverted ways of TA, over and over again, till the end of time. Shout it from the rooftops! The truth shall set you free!

[ivy (ivy)]

You mean you are slipping in your vomit and mud right? swine.

[iasmann (iasmann)]

Tony did change his name after he was saved but not legally. He changed his name when he was in hiding to Harvey Cochran.

Harvey was a brother who got permanently disabled in a car wreck while out distributing Tony's literature. He had been at the foundation for about 20 years. After he was injured Tony didn't want to pay for his care so he dumped him in a nursing home and abandoned him. He said he was a weasel for having the accident. That's Tony's idea of Christian love.

Then Tony stole his ID when he went into hiding.

Nancy Ross says, "On July 5, 1991, Alamo was "captured" in Tampa, Florida where he and other church members openly operated a hardware store and family-style restaurant."

The coward was openly going under the name of Harvey Cochran and using Harvey's ID. Again this is indisputable fact that is backed by arrest records and court records. He was not going around under his own name like Nancy alleges.

Have you noticed the pattern yet. Everything Tony accuses everyone else off he is actually guilty of himself. The evidence he uses against them is based on hearsay and unprovable allegations. But God has arranged for the evidence against Tony to be 100% verifiable by sworn court testimony or other public records.

Of course Tony will say it's all a Vatican or Can plot blah, blah, blah. But think about this.

What are the chances that all these people from around the country are CAN members or Jesuit priests. You've got Jury members in Memphis, police officers in Tampa, a truck sales company in Arkansas, a bankruptcy court, his own website, a book written long before he got saved, a car dealer in Nashville, his own tax returns etc. The list goes on and on. They can't all be plants working for CAN or the Vatican but that's what Tony keeps saying. It's like a broken record. Just read Nancy Ross's story.

Not to mention dozens of people who have personally known him and have seen real atrocities far worse than anything mentioned here.

He wants to know why I don't talk about the altar calls full of souls with tears streaming down their faces. Because that hasn't happened over there in almost THIRTY years. That's why. All he has now is 15 year old testimonies from Chalais and Demoulin. It's pathetic. The scribes and pharisee's searched land and sea and got a proselyte. Tony's so pathetic he searches land and sea but can't come up with a new proselyte in 15 years.

Tony did destroy the foundation. It says so right in the Nancy Ross story. Tony gave up 52 million dollars worth of the Lord's property to the devil. Property that God had given to the church to use in winning souls that Christ died for. Tony gave it all away in a fit of uncontrollable rage when he had a little boy beaten 140 times with a 2 by 4. And when he lied on his tax return.

The bible says "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper:" that's why the Lord took away everything he had and threw him in jail.

We helped him to cover his sin that's why we ended up on the street as well. But we took heed to the second half of that scripture, "whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy" and Tony hardened his heart to it.

Tony is still covering up these sins decades later. I know many of the people posting for him are doing so because they are coerced. The Lord knows that and will have mercy. But some of you are grown men and women who know better and are in a position to stop what's going on just by going to the police and reporting it. There is no statute of limitations on child molestation. That's why all these catholic priests were busted 20 and 30 years after their crimes. It will never be too late to report this stuff until Tony is in the grave.

His greatest claim to fame is a bunch of letters from foreign countries from people who've never even met him. He writes tracts and preaches messages about stuff he doesn't practice anywhere but in his own mind.

Susie always used to say "if you want to know how to do something ask someone who's never done it." That about fits the bill for Tony's tracts.

[smitty (smitty)]

Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 10:19 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Being somewhat klutzy w/ the computer, I can't seem to contact the Moderators of these threads. Would someone else who can PLEASE get ahold of them and get this crap cleaned up.

[rattlesnake (rattlesnake)]

I am sure that even God is cringing at this so called Christian language and behaviour that you alamo supporters use.
Probably even Tony would be disappointed in you because for an outsider to sit and read all of this, they would definately not believe that a leader who allowed his followers to speak and behave in such an outrageous and rude manner would be a leader led by God.

All the time that you spend trying to convince outsiders how righteous and godly Tony Alamo is, is blown to bits by all your nasty posts.

Seriously think about it from a mature point of view if you will. The Alamo supporters are the ones trying to prove that Tony is led by God and that everyone else is just trying to destroy Tony, for whatever reason.

If you, alamo supporters, had never heard of Tony Alamo, and you were seriously trying to get some sort of answers about whether or not he was truly led by God, would you find what you are saying very convincing?

I know you will come back at me with something rude, at this point I expect nothing less, but I think that if you really search your heart, deep down you know this is true.

If you truly believe that Tony is who you think he is, then do you not think that he is capable of defending himself?

And if you are truly worried about someone getting turned off from following Tony because of what the non-supporters are saying, consider this: If Tony really is chosen by God and God wanted to choose someone to be a follower of Him through Tony, do you not have enough confidence in God to see his will be done regardless of what is said on here?

Why don't you let God and Tony fight this battle instead of coming on here and making Tony and his ministry look like such an unattractive ministry?

Please really give this some consideration. Right now things don't look too attractive and as a "mostly" outsider, I have to tell you ... they ain't getting any better.

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

Spacetime is a fairly primitive school. But a lot of folks stay with the belief of it even when it's boring, and they don't want the lights turned on early.

[legion (legion)]

READ THE NEW THREAD

[sjway (sjway)]

Jody- very sincere thanks for your incredibly brave homnesty-I'm ashamed I was still involved for a while after that. But I say to all the remaining bystanders that you're all guiltier by the day as long as you stay there. T.A. is just a bully that needs serious punishment.- Simon

[moonflower (moonflower)]

In light of everything that is being said on this message board, the Lord keeps bringing this scripture to my mind. (No, Tony didn’t remind me of this scripture like you are probably going to say. I talk to the Lord myself, and believe me, I’ve talked to him about you people.)

“Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in Heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you” (Matt. 5:11-12). “Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! For so did their fathers to the false prophets.”

You people will be some of the very ones that will be sending gifts to each other when the two witnesses are dead, lying in the streets for three days. You’ll be sending the gifts because they tormented you so much with the truth of the Word of God. I’m sure you would be so happy if something would happen to Pastor Alamo, but remember there’s nothing you can do until he has accomplished everything the Lord has for him to accomplish. Even then, remember, you won’t keep him down for long, just a few days. Then you know what happens next. Praise God for the victory we have in Jesus Christ! We win remember!

Misheal

[rattlesnake (rattlesnake)]

The key word here is 'falsely". It doesn't appear that whatever is being said about Tony is false, therefore it changes the whole context of that verse in relation to Tony Alamo.

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

I have to say that the person behind the name "hurt my bottom" is the worst, sorriest excuse of a FALSE christian. That person is deceived and deceiver.
Dont waste your time saying your a christian because it wouldnt be believed. im sure you cant even say those words anymore "I am a Christian" because you seem so far removed from God. The filth that comes out of your mouth and the stupidity shown forth is enough to make any true believer stand away from you for fear the earth will open up to receive you. you {hurt my bottom) are a perfect example of a destroyer of souls but thats to be expected because you are the offspring of a work that condones all kinds of sin. And for your information, the leash that was used by the mans was made for children and it has more then one purpose you idiot, but you are so far gone you cant discern right or wrong anymore so what can be expected from someone who can speak with so vile of a mouth--other then that there mind must be long gone. MOCK ON--- WOE UNTO YOU

(Message edited by twopilgrims on November 09, 2005)

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

hey hurt my bottom,
why did you call the foundation
"guarded cult compound"??? or were you just being cutsie? either way the devil knows how to his recognize own?
The Lord rebuke thee

[moonflower (moonflower)]

Susie Gruesome, it amazes me that you think that you can so boldly order me to tell you about my personal life. My life is none of your business. How or where I choose to live my life has nothing to do with you. I am commanded not to cast my pearls before swine. It is between God and me. But for the sake of innocent people that read this message board, I will say that I have not had sex with Pastor Tony Alamo, nor am I married to him. Tony doesn’t have anything to do with me, with the exception of being my pastor. There are no children being abused, molested, married off, or made concubines in this church. That is another filthy lie.

Yes, Kenya Williams was put out of the church because he was committing fornication with several different women and carrying a gun to defend himself from a jealous boyfriend. And as all of you former members in this church know very well, the Lord instructed Pastor Alamo many years ago not to have any weapons in this church. (In all my life I have never so much as seen a gun.) So any person carrying a gun or anyone that commits fornication (or any other deliberate sin unto death) after they have been saved and filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit (which gives them more than enough power to keep from sinning) is made to leave. The rules of this church are based very strictly on the Word of God. Paul instructed us in the way a church should be set up. Some of those instructions are as followes: “I write unto you not to company with fornicators” (I Cor. 5:9). “But I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator…with such an one no not to eat…Therefore put away from among yourself that wicked person” (I Cor. 5:11-13). I also am commanded “Be not unequally yoked with an unbeliever: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? (II Cor. 6:14).

My son and I are not being abused or beaten in any way (hit, clobbered, kicked, or whatever other words you choose to use) nor have we ever been. We are both very happy and want to be left alone. You say you love us, and all of you pretend you care so much, but what you are doing shows me differently. You know we are here because we want to be here. You know we could leave at any time we want. As a matter of fact, I happen to know personally that if I ever wanted to leave, Pastor Alamo would buy me a ticket to go anywhere I want in the US. He’s not begging to support us. I have seen him buy many a ticket for people who didn’t want to stay here anymore.

No one is telling you how to serve Satan so stop trying to tell us how to serve the Lord. We get our instructions from the Lord, not flesh. You are trying to get as many people riled up as you can to try and get Tony behind bars, a man who has done nothing but cared for our souls and put others first before himself, staying up hours into the night studying and writing literature, and bringing messages everyday to win souls and to have fresh manna to feed to his congregation every day. You want someone like this behind bars because you can’t stand the fact that he preaches the truth, because it makes you feel uncomfortable. The truth scares you because you know you are on your way to hell.

You all lived very happy lives in this ministry and many of you even wrote letters stating this very fact in your own words. You could have left at any time and chose not to. Most of you only left because you were made to leave because you would not live lives that lined up with the Word of God in every way. Some of you, even after you were put out still stood up for the church in court and elsewhere because you knew that Pastor Alamo was a man only interested in doing a work for the Lord and winning as many souls as he could before it is too late. But you have let Satan set himself up in the place where the Lord once lived. You now despise the things of the Lord that you once loved. Seven demons worse than your original demons have now moved in to your temple that was once the Lord’s temple, and you have become antichrist.

I believe that all of you people are being paid by the Vatican controlled government to do what you are doing so that if the government comes in and kills Pastor Alamo they can say it was you so that they won’t be blamed for it. FBI Agent John Gary Peeler stated that the government was trying to get him to assassinate Pastor Alamo, and you’re trying to give the Vatican controlled government the justification to do it. You know that they have murdered millions of people before and that’s why you are doing this. You are nothing but ponds for Satan and his Vatican.

Pastor Alamo’s messages are all over the world. The message is out and this is what makes you ungodly people so irate. The more God’s message gets out, the more infuriated Satan and his followers become. He knows that his time is short. If Pastor Alamo’s message was leading people to hell like the Catholic cult has been doing for centuries, you people wouldn’t have any problem because he’d be just like you. But it’s not until the Lord starts opening more doors to get the true, undiluted, uncompromising message out to more and more people right here at the end of time that Satan fights Pastor Alamo the hardest. You need to follow Gamaliel’s advice: “Take heed to yourselves what you intend to do [concerning this man]…Refrain from [him], and let [him] alone; for if [his] counsel or [his] work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God” (Acts 5:34-39).
Misheal

[moonflower (moonflower)]

Rebecca Levy says that I’m so weak that I couldn’t make it out there. I work in the office and I know how to type and take dictation and I could get a job almost anywhere. I am very capable. I’m not here because I think I can’t make it out there. I’m here because the Lord has shown me by many infallible proofs that this is where He wants me. If I were to listen to you and ignore God I would be cursed. As for your rambling Rebecca Levy, I never said I got into sin nor was I tempted to get into sin when I lived away from the church. I have too much fear of God to do that.

Leave it to you, Becca, to think that one of the things of the world that would be considered enjoyable would be going to the grocery store. If I wanted to I could go to the grocery store, and I do sometimes. Ask my sister, that was never something I enjoyed doing. It was always her and my mom that liked to shop. I thank God that I don’t have to go to grocery stores for my food. We have purchasing agents that do that for us and we get whatever we want. I don’t have to cook or wash dishes either because I work in the office. I count it a blessing.

As for the lie from Ian Mann that altar calls full of souls with tears streaming down there faces are a thing of the past for this church, that is hasn’t happened for 30 years. This is yet another easily proven lie. It’s been many years since Ian Mann has been in one of our services. Anyone coming to the services can see that he is a liar. There are van loads of guests coming to services every night at our different outposts, because our witnessers are out on the streets every day distributing the gospel literature, doing the same thing Tony and Sue started over forty years ago when the church first started. If you would read the web site you would see hundreds of thousands of letters from people that are giving their lives to Christ not only in the US but throughout the world. And still today, the front aisle of the churches are packed out with people who come forward to give their lives to the Lord. This ministry hasn’t dwindled down in the least bit. As a matter of fact, we are exploding all over the world. I read the letters that come in every day by the hundreds from people getting saved through the literature that the Lord has given Pastor Alamo and the daily messages they are hearing on the radio. I hear testimonies over the platform from people who given their lives to the Lord very recently after reading Pastor Alamo’s literature, testifying of how they were delivered from years of alcohol and drug abuse instantly after they came down to the altar after services and gave their lives to the Lord. They wouldn’t have repented and given their lives to the Lord if Pastor Alamo had preached the watered down, compromising messages you hear from most preachers today. They repented and gave their lives to God because they received the fear a person receives when they hear the true personality of the Lord, the fear that makes a man depart from evil. He’s not a pastor that just tells people sweet things to try to keep his congregation. As you know, Pastor Alamo has never done that. He doesn’t want anyone in his church that despises and rejects even one point in the Word of God. He’s preaches the truth of the Word of God in its entirety, and everything he preaches, he backs up with the Word of God. I don’t just listen to him and believe him. I search the scriptures as he has always instructed us to do, and I find him to be 100% right on. He never deviates from the Word of God.

Rebecca Levy, you are trying to portray me to be a liar in the incident with your dad. I don’t have a filthy brain to make something like that up. If I’m lying, may God curse me till the day I die, then when I die send my soul to the lowest and hottest part of the lake of fire. I’m not afraid to say this, because I’m not lying nor would I ever make something up, especially something of this caliber, about anyone. It happened. You asked why I never said anything to anyone. I wish I had. I lived with guilt for a long time but I was too ashamed to tell anyone. I still don’t like talking about it. During the time your dad was put out (which you stated in an earlier posting that he wasn’t put out, at least you admit that much), that was when I was very close to telling my mom, but I just couldn’t bring myself to do it, but I remember very distinctly sitting at the kitchen table with my mom, and I had been thinking about how bad it would be for you to have to go live with him (if you remember all of us children were praying very hard for you and I prayed probably more earnestly than them all because of what had happened). I wanted so badly to tell her, but I couldn’t bring myself to do it because I was too ashamed, so all I told her was that he would tickle me when I went to his house and it made me feel weird. I hadn’t really said enough, but I couldn’t bring myself to say anymore. I had so much guilt every time I thought about it, but was too ashamed to say anything, so I would just push it out of my brain and tried to forget it ever happened. You say your dad loved me as a daughter. Yes, he made me feel that he loved me as his daughter, that is how I ended up trusting him, but he betrayed my trust. I never went to your house again after that, even though he, many times, would ask me in front of you and other children why I wasn’t coming over anymore. Don’t you remember him asking me that? As for your demented accusations against Tony that I made it up because Tony wanted to hear some demented tale, may God curse you till the day you die and when you die, send your soul to the lowest and hottest part of hell then the lake of fire for an eternity for the false accusations you are bringing against a prophet of God. You had better be very careful the accusations you bring because you will be paying for them for an eternity.

As for your dad, anyone can see by reading his posts on this message board that his mind is infested with every kind of sinful, lustful, filthy thought. Nobody could speak the way he does and be decent. Any one reading this message board can see what kind of a person he is and what goes on in his brain. I’m sure he had done so much worse since he’s been away from this church. God has given him over to uncleanness through the sinful lusts of his own heart. Because he has changed the truth of God into a lie God has given him up unto vile affections and has given him over to a reprobate mind… (Rom. 1:24-28).

You say people were report crazy in the church. If you are honest you will admit that I wasn’t the kind of person who reported things, much to my shame. There were many things that went on that I should have reported and didn’t. And I never heard anyone reported for having bad breath. Who reported that? You? I’m sure it didn’t get very far. As far as throwing grapefruits, the only time that I ever heard of someone being reported for throwing a grapefruit was when someone threw a grapefruit out of the bus window and it hit a car behind the bus and cracked their windshield. (Jared took the blame for it but word was among the kids afterwards that he was just covering for Tommy Shoemaker.) You say shame was never a factor. Maybe it wasn’t for you. You did always seem like the kind of person who enjoyed seeing people getting in trouble, but I was never that type of person, which prevented me from reporting things I should have. You state that we were raised to stand up and speak the truth no matter what. Yes, this is absolutely right. Are you trying to infer that there is something wrong with that? Then out of the other side of your mouth you say Tony is teaching us to lie. Your speech betrays you. Your mind is obviously not stable. You quote scriptures and say that these were the things that were taught in the church. Yes, Tony teaches the entire Word of God. Are you saying that is evil? Is the Word of God evil to you? That is why people like you don’t belong here and will always be thrown out, is because you despise the Word of God. It’s not Tony you despise, it’s the Word of God that he preaches.
Misheal

[redeemed_9131970 (redeemed_9131970)]

Out of the mouth of two or more let the truth be established.

The story of so many of us, alas far too many of us…

As the years unfolded, many of us Brothers and Sisters saved by the Blood of the Lamb at the Tony and Susan Alamo Christian Foundation (who had so zealously from the very beginning of our salvation committed ourselves to the complete and uncompromised service of the Lord) began to take so much of the “tightening of the harness and reins” on the portion of the Body of Christ that came to exist at the Foundation, as the Lord’s way of shaking the vine – weeding out the ‘Aikens’ – was the term we used.

We honestly believed it was a necessary price to be paid for the sincere ones of us who without “murmuring or complaining” would gladly pay whatever price the Lord asked of us to accomplish what He, in His infinite mercy and grace, had called and chosen us to do: carry the good news of the Gospel far and wide to the lost and dying, and in so doing win multitudes of precious souls to the Kingdom of Heaven which our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, ultimately died for. That, truly, being our foremost, God-given commission on this side of eternity, with broken spirits and contrite hearts, our intentions were to ‘continue on’ until His return or until He called us home, whichever came first.

Like it or not, when a few of the “tares” would “blow-it,” all of us suffered the consequences –more rules, regulations, and restrictions, i.e. less personal freedoms. To most of us these were small prices to pay; we willingly accepted these changes believing it was God’s way of tightening the ranks because who would continue to stay under such conditions except those of us who were truly sold out to God?…

In time, the focus many of us (admittedly, I cannot and will not say all of us) had towards the Lord, satan slowly and subtly steered toward our pastors. Just as one doesn’t backslide overnight, this shift did not happen overnight either. It was gradual, but nevertheless, it did occur. After the death of Susie, the spiritual things dear to our hearts, attending Spirit-filled services, reading Bible, taking Spirit-filled prayer hours, partaking in all night prayer meetings for souls, and joyously street witnessing, in time got pushed further and further to a back burner. As a matter of fact for the most part those things were eventually pushed right off the stove to make room for the Foundation’s money making endeavors!

The horse leach hath two daughters crying ‘give, give.’

No matter how much we gave day after day, it was never enough. The palmer worm, caterpillar, locust and canker worm all were and still are having a field day. Woe unto you, hireling, God is not mocked.

With the passing of time, it became more and more oppressive. Well duh?! wouldn’t it seem that the more people grew in God and truly learned to walk in His Spirit, the less restrictions would be required?? Not so for us. We all know that as time went on the strangulation hold became tighter and tighter. But by that time, too many of us were like the frog in the boiling pot of water. When that frog started out in that pot of water, the water was barely luke warm. It warmed up so gradually the poor frog was lulled to the point of no return and never even knew it! In our willingness to believe we all had the same agenda – keeping the first commandment: to love and serve the Lord with all our heart, body, mind and soul and to do it with all our strength – we wound up in a place where we refused to take a real look at what was actually happening there as it measured up in the scriptures. How many of us would actually plead the Blood against a ‘mental tug’ (being checked in the Spirit) to do so?? Lots of us! God forbid we should receive ‘accos.’ Ask yourself, how does anyone really grow in God when they are training themselves to resist the leading of the Holy Spirit and are justifying doing so as not ‘listening to the devil.’ No wonder we were being treated like ‘ja-blonks.’ We unwittingly gave up our God-given authority to line things up with the scriptures when we surrendered using it to do so by allowing one individual to heavy handedly call all the shots. The result was the creation of what exists there today – the camp of satan. Those of you who have refused to pull your head out of the sand, its time to wake up and smell the coffee before it’s eternally too late…

But in truth the mighty God we all gave allegiance to at the altar is a jealous God, and like it or not, He shares His glory with no one. Being the consuming fire that He is, He is greatly to be praised and feared – His Holy Word says so, take it or leave it. That’s good enough for me, cause guess what, at the end of the day He wins! Why else would that organization be in the deplorable, ungodly state it is in today and has been for a long, long time. It is as far removed from the living God and His precepts as the east is from the west. Furthermore, it is a personal affront to everything it and we originally stood for and is a head-jarring slap in the face to every one of us who gave so willingly and freely of ourselves albeit for the sake of the Gospel of Christ Jesus – can any of the glory of those years truly be taken away from us? Only if our deeds were done as unto man aka TA and not as unto the Lord, and only if we allow ourselves to be robbed of all those true glory times by satan (God forbid we should ever forget that satan is our ultimate enemy) – we all must needs examine ourselves in that light before our heavenly Father, for we truly serve a jealous God! The Lord knows now and knew then our hearts through all of this.

Scripture says ‘He is angry with the wicked every day’…I praise and thank Him that His mercies are renewed every morning for those of us who will and/or have repented and do believe the Gospel of His precious Son – our soon coming King, Jesus Christ, the Righteous. Yes, I am truly persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day – my immortal soul.

In Jesus there is Victory but only in Him is that Victory! He’s the Winner, He’s the Victor!

cp – Redeemed: 9/13/1970

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

Oh so true cp one thing you said and one thing sueb said have met together. the deplorable condition of the property is the reflection of the deplorable condition of the souls who live there.
connie - Redeemed: 10-9-72
HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON
GLORY GLORY HALLELUJAH

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

Wonderful word Carolyn....Praise God and ditto.

Carol Fryer

[summer4ever (summer4ever)]

Simon,

Thanks for your kind words http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

If I truly was brave, I would have ran to the authorities in California and had Tony arrested first time it happened when I was a teenager.

Instead, I waited over a year and for a subpoena to tell the government what was happening.

Hindsight -- always 20/20, eh?

Thanks again for your words http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif It does feel good to read them.

Jody

[summer4ever (summer4ever)]

Misheal,

Reading your post reminds me of President Bill Clinton when he stated that he did not have sexual relations with that woman [Monica Lewinski]. And all of us know the outcome on that one!

Yes, I know being pregnant with another man's [Kenya's] baby wasn't the biggest turn on for Tony (I remember our conversations). But, Yes, you had your night in Tony's bedroom like all of Tony's wives did. Maybe you have repressed the memories. If so, Good for you!

In the real world, knowing typing and dictation does not get you very far. In fact, it would be hard to find a good paying job with just those qualities. Even elementary school kids are taught typing, but more importantly, they are taught the ins and outs of the computer. And as far as knowing dictation, computer software does that as well http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif.

All most all jobs also want a High School Diploma... Something most of us don't have. I do have a piece of paper signed by Tony Alamo and Bernie Lazar Hoffman that has "High School Diploma" across the top, but guess what? It is not state accredited. Amounts to NOTHING in the real world. You wouldn't be able to pass a simple background check.

The proofreading skills I learned there did come in handy later, but even then, I had learn the "official" proofreading marks for the layout and design team to understand.

Grant it, all these problems can be fixed with a G.E.D. and a little education. One thing a little college education will teach you is to think outside the box. Don't just take the writer's word for things. Do research on your own and come up with your OWN analysis/conclusion of the situation or idea.

What happened? Has Tony now replaced you with younger wives? Has he convinced you that you have done something wrong and placed you in ward?
Are you now trying to make up for whatever supposed wrong you did to get back into Tony's favor?

I know I was never as close with you as I was with your sister. But I love you just the same. I'm just trying to give you a wakeup call.

I really do wish the best for you and Jordan. He was a beautiful little boy, and I'm sure he will turn into a fine young man.

Jody

[saved_21570 (saved_21570)]

Carolyn,

Your post really sums it up. I can feel that precious kindred Spirit of our Savior, The Lord Jesus Christ.

It is sad that some have gotten bitter and harbor deep anger. It can be argued that they have a right, but, it is much more important to keep your right to the Tree of Life. Forgive, not for Tony's sake but for your own souls sake. Find a place of peace with God first, then do what you must do.

Remember, we have a tree that makes even bitter waters sweet.


I have been moved by the grace that God has given so many that have suffersd the worst at this mans hand. He is such a wonerful Savior!

For those of you who do not know me. I was saved febuary 15, 1970. We slept on floors, did prayer chains, night watches, tree crews, pick ups, reading groups, field work. Our labor was fervent as were our prayers. We grew in Grace and the gifts of God, and we learned how to seek God and to get an answer. What an honor. I have never looked at those years with regret. I would not trade it for anything.

From very early days of our church, a cancer began in the church. It is an amazing thing when you begin to study cancer. It parrallels so perfctly what happens to a church as it falls from grace. ALL CANCER BEGINS WITH <u>ONE </u>CELL. That cell first has to trick the cells close to it that it is normal. It does this by sending out chemical messages that stop the surrounding cells from reproving it (with chemicals and emzymes) This gives it the opportunity to begin to steal nutrients meant for the body and to grow and divide unnaturally. All the while the body can function in most ways in a healthy manner. The body does not recognize the cancer as anything but normal, therefore it's normal immune system does not attack it as it would any other aborant cell. It gets much more intricate and profound, but in synopsis; one cell usurps its position, steals nutrients from the rest of the body until the body is emaciated, all the while making itself bigger and fatter. Then the body dies. That is what happened to The Tony and Susan Alamo Christian Foundation. The cancer was never the congregation, it was Tony all along.


Love always in our precious Savior and Lord Jesus Christ, Tom Alford

[redeemed_9131970 (redeemed_9131970)]

Praise the Lord, Tom!
Powerful analogy...
Give my best to Abby and the boys

cp - Redeemed: 9131970

[iasmann (iasmann)]

Praise the Lord Tom- that is absolutely the truth! Thanks for the post. Lord bless you and your family. Ann

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Tom, this is Julie (Ina's daughter)I have seen you around at different places, but have been to shy to say hello (perhaps, thinking that you may not know who I am) I live in Tamarac, do you live near?

[saved_21570 (saved_21570)]

Hi guys! It is so great to hear from you.

When I first came to this site it was like opening a sewer cap, but some things just have to be testified to.After I left (after getting the left foot of fellowship) I wept my share of tears for what could have been, but I'm not weeping any more. Ronnie and you have been a great blessing and encouragement to the Body. Thank You, for keeping us in your ministry. We sometimes pass your tapes along to others who are close to us and want to listen to the Word. Abby wanted you to know that she was moved by your posts.

Ann, I want you to know that Scotty is in our prayers since the day he left. Say HI! to Ian for us.

I am an extremely slow typist so don't expect long replies, but it is great to hear from oldtimers who love the Lord, and from these kids too. Some of them, like Becca Sue, you can tell really know the Lord.

By the way, boys are fine getting big.

Love in God our Father and Jesus our Lord. Tom

[saved_21570 (saved_21570)]

Hi, Julie! I guess everyone is on. Next time you see me Please say hello. Of course I remember you, but I bet you are alot different now. You were just a young girl then. lol Tom

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Yes, I was young then, but I do not forget a face. I have a wonderful life now. My son just turned 8 and he is the light of my life. He keeps me very busy with sports and of course school. I live in Plum Bay (do you know where that is?)

[saved_21570 (saved_21570)]

Julie

Yes I live nearby. Just behind the Midway plaza.(Publix) Where are you in Tamarac?

Tom

[jules11468 (jules11468)]

Plum Bay (corner of Commercial and Nob Hill) Uh oh , now I know my neighborhood will be "wallpapered".

[iasmann (iasmann)]

Hey Tom,

We may be down that way around Christmas. Ann's aunt and uncle live in the keys and we're planning on driving down. We'll let you know when so we can get together for a while. Last time I saw you you had just got your first boy
How old is he now? around 10. We never even met your youngest one.

Have you bought any 2X4's yet to discipline them. I bet Tony has never beat his own kid with a 2X4. I hear that Zion is a real brat too. That's a kid that needs prayer. If anyone ever had the deck stacked against them at birth it's him.

It's like you said. Take the good and run with it and leave the bad behind. Judas did a work for the Lord too before he betrayed him like Tony. I'm sure that many of those souls also went on for the Lord and made it to heaven even though their spiritual father chose a different path.

I'll call you in a while as soon as we have firm plans. As it stands now we will go down between Christmas and New Years.

By the way I hear that they are changing "Christmas" to "Tonymas" at the foundation. Have you read their posts. Tony is healing and saving and doing all these mighty works. No glory to God. All glory to Tony.

Ian

[neasie (neasie)]

OK

Who is Tom aka saved_21570 ?

Neasie(Denise)

[smitty (smitty)]

Tom.. This is Tom Smith. Good to hear from you man!

[fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)]

Ann Mann....

I know you don't remember me. We only spoke once, many years ago (winter 1992), by phone, when I was a baby Christian; my husband and I were living with the Vincent's in Arlington, Texas, and having problems with them.

I'd called to 'report' the problems. You were the voice at the other end of the phone.

I just wanted to say 'thank you'. All these years later, I still remember how kind you were to me.

Your kindness was not forgotten. It was a true testimony to me.

God bless you and yours.
fooled_no_more (Wanda Brasington)

[twopilgrims (twopilgrims)]

HI Tom
Good to hear from you along with the rest of the brethren..
I like how you describe the way cancer attacks.. that sure if a visual..

connie

[saved_21570 (saved_21570)]

Ian &amp; Ann,

Hi, It's Abby. Tom wanted me to write you back. How wonderful that you may be passing our way. We would love to see you again. It's been a long time. The last time , Ann came with scott.I made them potato latkes ! Does she remember?

Good memory Ian, Our son Makhail is 9, and our little one Grayson is 6. Both are really good boys We haven't had to purchase any 2x4's
and they love the Lord and going to church.Tom is teaching childrens church where we are worshiping. Tom and I just celebrated our 14th wedding anniversary
It seems his "outing" had been my blessing.

As an outsider this all seems too bizarre. I read the blog from another post, about tony seeing himself in Heaven. How perfect he sees himself. So tonymas is of no surpise to us.

Anyway take care! please call when you are in our neck of the woods.
Lord Bless
Abby &amp; Tom Alford

(Message edited by saved_21570 on November 20, 2005)

[saved_21570 (saved_21570)]

Tom Smith , Connie , and all others

Tom says HI GUYS !! . He will reply some time later.

abby

[helives (helives)]

Hi Tom &amp; Abby

Sue B here- just got back in town. Hi to eveyone.

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

To all those I dont know yet who were at the foundation before i was hello and greatings from Arkansas.
Carol Fryer

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

What is Wellspring Susie? Interesting article...Thanks.
Carol

[wilma (wilma)]

Carol,
To answer your question, below is a statement from Wellspring's own website. Tami and I went to Wellspring together in 2001. Obviously, being ripped from the husband she loved and being forced to become one of Alamo's many "wives" had caused a lot of trauma in her life. Going to Wellspring was the best thing I ever did in my life. I know Tami would say the same.

WELLSPRING RETREAT AND RESOURCE CENTER: o u r *m i s s i o n

Why do we do what we do?
Wellspring is a nonprofit corporation whose purpose is to provide a program of counseling and instruction to individuals who have suffered psychological and spiritual distress resulting from trauma due to destructive cults or cult-like organizations or relationships.


The Wellspring Staff

Founded informally in 1986 with part-time staff and incorporated in 1988, Wellspring offers residential and outpatient counseling with both professionally trained mental health and religious instructors. The program of counseling is geared toward the restoration of clients to emotional and social wholeness. Although we accept clients from a wide variety of religious cults, Wellspring is, to our knowledge, the only center where a program is specifically offered upon request to those who have been damaged psychologically and spiritually by Bible-based cultic organizations.

What need are we meeting?
Religious and mental health professionals estimate that there are 2,500 to 3,000 destructive cults in the U.S. alone (The Florida Catholic, Oct., 1988 and The Psychiatric Times, April, 1989) with an estimated membership of 10+ million Americans. According to the late founder and director of the Christian Research Institute and author of numerous books on cults, Dr. Walter Martin... some 35 to 50 million people are involved in some form of cultic organization throughout America and on foreign mission fields (The New Age Cult, p.7). Of the millions who have left their cults, about 1/3 to 1/2 have been detrimentally affected by their experience. Few know where to go for help; even worse, many do not realize what is wrong with them. Some are afraid for their lives. The following quotes from cult victims demonstrate the problems former members can face even after leaving their group:

"Leaving the cult was a shattering experience ... I had nothing -- no faith, no money, no job... I had to rebuild my life from scratch."

"I felt I could never get excited about living again. I feel apathetic, drained of enthusiasm."

"I know they are out to get me; after all, I know too much about the culs affairs."

I've been out of the cult for six months and I still haven't found a job. The interviewers just look at me like I'm some freak."


What do we hope to accomplish?
The goal of Wellsprings program is, very simply, to assist these former victims in returning to normal life again, free of the deleterious effects of their abusive experience. These effects include false guilt, depression, anxiety, fear, confusion, and anger; thus we help our clients return to emotional stability. We also assist them in returning to social stability by helping them reintegrate themselves with family, friends, career and life-goals which are often interrupted by the abusive experience, and for those who desire, tools are available for returning to spiritual stability.

[wilma (wilma)]

Carol,
This is my last post for now about Wellspring. There is lots of info on their website at http://wellspringretreat.org/ for anyone who has more interest.
Below is an email from Liz Shaw, their survivor advocate. She was the first person I spoke to there and has become a dear friend.
********************************************
Greetings to you from Wellspring Retreat &amp; Resource Center, the nation's only accredited residential treatment center for survivors of cults and cultic abuse. I'm Liz Shaw.

What's your situation?
Perhaps you are visiting this web site because you have exited a high-demand group that has left you feeling confused, weary, depressed, angry, and with a host of other roller coaster emotions. This departure could have taken place this morning or 20 years ago; it makes no difference, as the injuries inflicted by cults often leave their victims wandering around hopeless for some time. You may be feeling that you are all alone and that no one, maybe not even the professionals you have turned to, can understand how your cultic involvement impacted your life in such a detrimental way.

Maybe you are the parent, sibling, spouse, or friend of a cult member and you are desperate for accurate information about their situation. This could be the first time you ever researched this problem and you feel at a total loss as to where to begin. You are starting to run across a new vocabulary -- exit counselor, walk-away, thought reform, floating, intervention -- and can hardly believe that you are even needing this information to help you reach your loved-one. Your life may be consumed by this pursuit as you struggle to understand how this person you once knew became a stranger, perchance even overnight.

Possibly you are on the Internet and feeling a little (or a lot) guilty about even doing a search on the word "cult." Surely your organization, church, or relationship couldn't be cultic! But just the same you are starting to question some inconsistencies, contradictions, and downright lies that you have discovered. Maybe someone has planted a seed of doubt and you are hoping to prove them wrong by finding out information about what a cult is and is not. You might be feeling very scared as the pieces start to fit together and you realize that you have been trapped, deceived, manipulated, and unduly influenced by the group or relationship in question.

We understand the problem
As the Cult Survivor Advocate for Wellspring, I take calls from people in all three scenarios above. I have spoken with hundreds of people who have left cults, are wanting to get a loved one out of a cult, or are just discovering that they are themselves in a cult. Sometimes those who call me are suicidal, believing there is no hope for them ever being able to get over the trauma of cultic abuse. Other times I listen to very angry people who are ready to take matters into their own hands and exact retribution on the cult leader. Some of my more challenging calls are from those who are still in the cult and are fearful of severe punishment for making contact with the "outside" world and asking for information and help.

Because I speak with cult survivors, the loved ones of cult members, and even the cult members themselves on a daily basis I have very little patience for those who would deem victims of cults as crazy, whacko, products of poor parenting, weak-minded, damaged goods, or some other similar label. I speak with brilliant individuals, some having several advanced degrees, who have had their minds raped by their intellectual inferiors using highly sophisticated mind control techniques. I talk with people who have been model parents only to lose their child to a destructive cult. I get to know talented writers, artists, and musicians who are enslaved to their cult providing menial labor while their creativity withers and dies. I speak with highly skilled professionals who gave up satisfying careers in medicine, law, education, and science to follow the ideals and passions of a group they initially believed in, but eventually discovered to be a parasite and sham. As tempting as it is to blame the cult victim for being stupid, ignorant, lacking in moral character, and therefore inherently responsible for getting themselves in this mess, it just doesn't logically pan out when you consider who joins a cult. After hundreds of calls all I can say is that cults don't play fairly, they play to win, and the stakes are very high...intelligent, creative, productive members of society. Was that you? Could that be someone you know and love?

We've been there
My own story of cultic involvement is proof enough to me that cults don't go after the lame. I was an honor student, gifted musician, product of a very good home, and a happily married wife and mother when I was recruited into the twisted world of a New Age cult. A stubborn and painful medical condition that did not respond to treatment led me to investigate the world of alternative healing gimmicks and before long I was chanting, wearing crystals, cleansing my aura, and raising my kundalini with the best of them. Behaviors and beliefs that would have seemed very strange to me before eventually became comfortable and routine. Little by little my critical thinking became more and more eroded and I would have burned peacock feathers on the rooftop by the light of the moon if I thought it would work...come to think of it, maybe I even did that? As my medical condition worsened, my pursuit of overcoming it through these bizarre methods only intensified as I strove to measure up to the ideals of the cult. My failures at healing were explained away as my not being pure enough, diligent enough, or spiritual enough. Sometimes my adverse physical reactions to strange diets, rigorous fasting, and noxious potions was attributed to a "healing crisis" and I was encouraged to keep up the good work!

I share this to make the point that anyone can become vulnerable at some point in their lives, whether it be from a medical problem as in my situation, or from divorce, death, moving, employment changes, etc. We want answers during those difficult times and cults are more than happy to provide them for us in deceptive and exploitative ways.

Let us help
Do you need to call Wellspring? Do you need hope about recovering from your cultic experiences? Do you want information about how to help your loved one through the maze of mind control? Are you wanting to break through a group's control of information to ask some hard questions...questions that might change the course of your life? Pick up the phone and call now. I can assure you, at Wellspring we understand, we care, and we can help.

Sincerely,
Liz Shaw
Wellspring Cult Survivor Advocate

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

Thanks Wilma, great article, and very good info. Sounds like a great place. I know by experience that cults come in all shapes and flavors and also in all degrees. God has given me wonderful revelation of human nature and also God nature and satisfaction comes from Him alone.Even the very essence of our obedience and love all comes from Him. This lady sounds like a wonderful person and understand the basic drive of people seeking into this.
To all the brothers and sisters on the board, I want to wish you all a wonderful and warm thanksgiving. Above all give thanks for this is the will of God concerning you....Praise God.
love and hugs
Carol Fryer

[windycity (windycity)]

carol,
don't take this as mean remark. but remember back on the ridge? well, these people who you think are your friends, ARE NOT. I know that a few of these women loved to say mean things about you. This is what my wife tells me. They are and have always been backbiters and mavericks. why do you think these people are your friends? they weren't on the ridge so what makes you think they are now?

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

Are you supposed to be telling me something I dont know? And even if they are the same and dont accept me, I dont get my self image from them. My Saviour died to show me how much He loved me and He has plans for me. My hope is and always will be in Him. I dont care what others do. But I do care when innocent children are being hurt and their childhood is taken away. And yes I was not accepted. Big deal.. Im accepted in the Beloved. Hes jumped in where my family and all aquaintances failed. So Hes put mercy and forgiveness and love in my heart. I havent always done things perfectly either but Ive learned to stop when I know when Im wrong and hurting people....Many dont stop. And I know Tony didnt. Dont even try to feed on division between people here because it wont work.

Carol Fryer

[havebrainwilltravel (havebrainwilltravel)]

Carol-

I love your response to windycity. Just to-the- point-truth. I particularly loved this: "I don't get my self image from them." It's a great return to cultists and liberal college professors alike, who want to paint us into their own image (homosexual, anti-god pessimists) just as Tony does. The fact is that there are many people who act just as perverted as Tony, just with a slightly altered message. Wellspring helped me put my own experience into perspective. Now I want to do something to help people from other cults.

Next week, I will be giving an in class talk about cults, and Liz from Wellspring helped me to gather data and let me bounce ideas off of her. She really wants to help people. This person who is trying to cause division doesn't realize, I guess, that Liz has never met you, therefore, there is no way she can have anything in for you.

I admit there was quite a bit of division in the foundation- further proof that we were not in "the flock of God's annointed." Because we know from the book of Mark that Jesus said the people of the world would know Christians by their love one for another.

from another sinner saved by grace,
Have Brain Will Travel

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

Power rests on the kind of knowledge that one holds. What is the sense of knowing things that are useless? They will not prepare us for our unavoidable encounter with the unknown.

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

Nothing is this world is a gift. Whatever has to be learned must be learned the hard way.

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

To be angry at people means that one considers their acts to be important. It is imperative to cease to feel that way. The acts of men cannot be important enough to offset our only viable alternative: our unchangeable encounter with infinity.

[saved_21570 (saved_21570)]

Carol,
"when my father and my mother forsake, then the Lord, will take me up." Stay in the Lord. Good response. Hopefully your light will shine even into Windy's soul. LOL Tom

Havebrain,
There is one thing I always notced and never understood. The people closest to the top in the church always had the least amount of joy. Souldn't it be just the opposite?

"Happy are thy men, and happy are these thy servants, which stand continually before thee, and hear thy wisdom."
Queen Sheba 2Cron 9:8

Without name calling or contention would anyone inside the church care to venture an opinion?

Without malice: In Christ Jesus the Lord, Tom Alford

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

Yes, accepted in the Beloved doesnt always mean accepted by people...lol. But it is much nicer. I would love to meat liz some day. I have a freind I talk to often that helps my little boy since his dad died. She sees other people and actually ministers to some in cults. She is so easy to talk to and really cares about others. She does know alot about the foundation too. I can honestly say digging into God with all my heart and might has been my greatest therapy because He did give me that sense that He loved me deeply and He is my satisfaction. And perfect love really does cast out fear.
People dont realize how much their relationship with Jesus and spiritual conditions are so appearant. What comes out of their mouths shows whats in their hearts, but Jesus can fix anything.
Its been so good to hear from so many of you again .I really thought I would never hear from most of you again. We really need to pray for one another here because we are the ones who are so close to the experiences of the others. Weve been there.
Windy please dont leave the board. We pretty much know what youre feeling and really do care about you. God sees the heart thankfully.
Carol Fryer

[helives (helives)]

Carol, you must have touched on a nerve to get a response that people didn't like you. I really never had the opportunity to know you. Seeing as Tony kept us all so busy. Most of us got maybe 3-4 hours sleep every night, we worked from sun up into the middle of the night.
I wished I would have had a chance to get to know you, but you had girls and I had boys, so our children weren't babysat together either.
Take care and I already know that you don't take to heart what windy said about people not liking you. Besides the main thing is that Jesus' loves you and has made us sisters in Christ.

Windy - are you really married to her now? wow

[holdol27 (holdol27)]

i think windy over ate again and fell into a coma! fatass!

[wilma (wilma)]

Here is some other info to look at and compare life at the Alamo Foundation to:

The following questions come from the book: Recovering from Churches That Abuse, by Ronald Enroth, 1994.

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1. Does a member’s personality generally become stronger, happier, more confident as a result of contact with the group?

In an abusive church, the use of guilt, fear, and intimidation to control members is likely to produce members who have a low self-image, who feel beaten down by legalism, who have been taught that asserting oneself is not spiritual.

One of the first disturbing characteristics to be reported by relatives and friends of members of these churches is a noticeable change in personality, usually in a negative direction.
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2. Do members of the group seek to strengthen their family commitments?

Nearly all unhealthy churches attempt to minimize the commitments of their members to their family, especially parents.

Young people may be told that they now have a new “spiritual” family, complete with leaders who will “re-parent” them.

Church loyalty is seen as paramount, and family commitments are discouraged or viewed as impediments to spiritual advancement.
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3. Does the group encourage independent thinking and the development of discernment skills?

Control-oriented leaders attempt to dictate what members think, although the process is so spiritualized that members usually do not realize what is going on.

A pastor or leader is viewed as God’s mouth piece, and in varying degrees a member’s decision making and ability to think for oneself are swallowed up by the group.

Pressure to conform and low tolerence for questioning make it difficult to be truly discerning.
---------------------------------------------------
4. Does the group allow for individual differences of belief and behaviour, particularly on issues of secondary importance?

A legalistic emphasis on keeping rules and a focus on the need to stay within prescribed boundaries is always present in unhealthy spiritual envionments.

Lifestyle rigidity in such groups increase a member’s guilt feelings and contributes to spiritual bondage. This rigidity is often coupled with an emphasis on beliefs that would not receive great attention in mainstream evangelicalism.
---------------------------------------------------
5. Does the group encourage high moral standards both among members and between members and non members?

In intense, legalistic churches and religious organizations, the official, public proclamations usually place special value on high moral standards.

In some instances, there is a double standard between those in leadershp and those in the rank and file membership.

Abusive churches tend to have incidents of sexual misconduct more often than most conventonal churches; leaders sometimes exhibit an obsessive interest in matters relating to sex.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Does the group’s leadership invite dialogue, advice and evaluation from outside its immediate circle?

Authoritarian pastors are usually threatened by any outside expression of diverse opinions, whether from inside or outside the group. When outside speakers are given access to the pulpit, they are carefully selected to minimize any threat to the leadership’s agenda.

Coercive pastors are fiercely independent and do not function well in a structure of accountability.

For the sake of public relations, they may boast that they are accountable to a board of some sort, when in actuality the board is composed of “yes-men” who do not question the leader’s authority.
------------------------------------------------------
7. Does the group allow for development in theological beliefs?

Another hallmark of an authoritarian church is its intolerance of any belief system different from its own.

They tend to measure and evaluate all forms of Christian spirituality according to their own carefully prescribed system, adopting an “us-versus-them” mentality.
--------------------------------------------------------
8. Are group members encouraged to ask hard questions of any kind?

A cardinal rule of abusive systems is “Don’t ask questions, don’t make waves.”

A healthy pastor welcomes even tough questions. In an unhealthy church disagreement with the pastor is considered to be disloyalty and is tantamount to disobeying God.

People who repeatedly question the system are labelled “rebellious”, “unteachable”, or “disharmonious to the body of Christ”.

Persistent questioners may face sanctions of some kind such as being publicly ridiculed, shunned, shamed, humiliated, or disfellowshiped.
----------------------------------------------------
9. Do members appreciate truth wherever it is found even if it is outside their group?

Whether they admit it or not, abusive churches tend to view themselves as spiritually superior to other Christian groups.

This religious elitism allows little room for outside influences. There can be no compromise with external sources, who, the leadership will say, really don’t understand what is going on in the ministry anyway.
----------------------------------------------------
10. Is the group honest in dealing with nonmembers, especially as it tries to win them to the group?

Sometimes abusive groups illustrate a “split-level religion”. There is one level for public presentation and another for the inner circle of membership.

The former is a carefully crafted public relations effort, the latter a reality level experienced only by the “true believers”.

Recruitment tactics are usually intense, even if they are not actually deceptive or fraudulent, they can be manipulative or exploitive.

Sometimes high pressure religious groups are evasive about there ture identity: “We really don’t have a name, we’re just Christians.”

A healthy Christian group should have no qualms about revealing who it is and what its intentions are.
-------------------------------------------------------
11. Does the group foster relationships and connections with the larger society that are more than self-serving?

First impressions are not always correct. Sustained contact with an unhealthy church, however, will usually reveal a pattern that is consistent with the characteristics we have identified.

Members will be requested to serve, to become involved, to sign up for a variety of activities that, upon closer inspection, appear to maintain the system and serve the needs of the leadership.

Abusive churches thrive on tactics that promote dependency.

Emphasizing obedience and submission to leaders, these churches often require a level of service that is overwhelming to members, resulting in emotional turmoil and spiritual breakdowns.

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

yep yep yep......right on Wilma

[saved_21570 (saved_21570)]

DG

This line is where I first posted. Check out Carolyns post 11/17/05. Mine was on the 11/19.

Tom

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

And that post was worth reading again Carolyn...GBU

[wilma (wilma)]

A friend who has been reading factnet but hasn't registered asked me to post the following:

The following steps are recommended by experts at New York University for people who just don't feel right about a group they've met on campus:

Ask yourself:
*What commitment of time, money and other resources are expected from you?
*Would I be assigned recruiting or financial quotas?
*Is associating with family and friends discouraged?
*What benefits will I gain from being a member of this group? How do these benefits fit with my own goals and ideas?

Does the group:
*Encourage you to continue your studies, to succeed academically, and to graduate, or does the group say that its activities are more important than school?
*Answer the questions that you ask, or are you told repeatedly that the answers will come later?
*Discourage discussion of its beliefs, either with other members or with your family or friends?
*Want its members to give up traditions and beliefs?
*Require absolute obedience and devotion to its leaders?
*Allow members to have quiet times alone, or time with other friends outside the group?
*Predict tragedy will befall anyone who leaves the group?

For more information on how to identify a cult and getting help, contact the USD Counseling Center at (619) 260-4655; UCSD Psychological and Counseling Services at (858) 534-3755; or SDSU Counseling and Psychological Services at (619) 594-5220.

[skeptik (skeptik)]

That is so true, Wilma.

They did expect me to tithe and got torked when I declined. At best, it was a scam, promising God's Blessings to all who contribute to the Foundation. At worst, a shakedown, an ecclesiastical protection racket. I wasn't robbing God, I merely refused to give them my tithe.

They'd pressure me to spend my extra time with them to the exclusion of family, friends, even my then-girlfriend, and they had a need to screen them. I never went for that.

I run into my peeps, and I've never told them about my dealings with the TA Krew. I can't tell them our dealings were in jeopardy because of them. Only my parents and the people on this board know, and maybe that's good enough.

There was the pitch about a big swimming pool and country living, food prepared by their own chef. After all, when you're part of Joel's Army, they said, the benefits are great.I get a different meaning when I read Joel. Am I reading it wrong?

There was their desire for me to drop out of college, as if they considered their work more crucial than anything else I may have had going, as if furthering the agenda of one apparently demented little man (not God's: there is a difference) was more important.

I'd ask questions, and I'd have this one OC stumble over the questions,throwing out scriptures out of context, fusing together pieces of various verses, being flustered. So I'd be told to "pray about it." Seems some people did not have all the answers, though they couldn't admit it.

And of course, some put TA on a pedestal akin to some mythological figure, told tales about his majestic deeds; it was even more entertaining to hear TA talk about it ( although he did not seem right in the head to me).

I was told by OC's that by not moving in, I was disobeying God, that if I broke this one Commandment, I broke them all. And did they delight in drumming the Alamo urban legend about Frenchie, who'd left the Foundation one day and got shot to death that very night.

My heart really does go out to those who still reside there. Because they aren't so much serving God than someone who's only a man. And if there was something I could do to help, I would do just that.

William "Bill" Jaynes
"Skeptik"

wjaynes@hotmail.com

[skeptik (skeptik)]

I actually met TA, hear his messages, even heard him sing. I was not impressed. His messages came off as some improvisational hodgepodge of talking trash and flights of fantasy and conspiracy theory, with some scripture thrown in to make it conform to the possible technical definition of sermon. And as a singer, he was no Sinatra.

As for meeting him, he came off as some swaggering little punk with an attitude, and probaly wasn't anything unless he had a "brother" or two to stand near him. No humility, just arrogance, conceit, and an attitude of dominion over everything and everyone.

Not my kind of guy.

[89to95 (89to95)]

I would like to get in contact with Randy or Jim if that is at all possible.
I was either blind or I was duped by Alamo. Notice Tony's word. (LOL)
I did not see any of the things that Tami} expressed when I was in the church from '89 to '95. Yet, I did read the polygamy tract.
But when I was in the church Randy, Tami, Jim, Nikki &amp; many others said that what Tony said was true. I did not know Jared, but you were all in agreement with Tony at that time.
I really liked Jim, and Randy was always straight up with me. I was there when Randy was put out of the church. I didn’t understand why he was put out.
I would like to get some sort of closure.
Please respond and tell me what all of this is about.
Thank you very much.

[hollydolly (hollydolly)]

thats how tony alamo hides his own pain, his deep rooted secrets of his past has made him the arrogant son of a <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> that he is!...........