Something to think about

[cross301973 (cross301973)]

The Penny

You always hear the usual stories of pennies on the sidewalk being good luck, gifts from angels, etc. This is the first time I've ever heard this twist on the story. Gives you something to think about.
Several years ago, a friend of mine and her husband were invited to spend the weekend at the husband's employer's home. My friend, Arlene, was nervous about the weekend. The boss was very wealthy, with a fine home on the waterway, and cars costing more than her house.

The first day and evening went well, and Arlene was delighted to have this rare glimpse into how the very wealthy live. The husband's employer was quite generous as a host, and took them to the finest restaurants. Arlene knew she would never have the opportunity to indulge in this kind of extravagance again, so was enjoying herself immensely.

As the three of them were about to enter an exclusive restaurant that evening, the boss was walking slightly ahead of Arlene and her husband. He stopped suddenly, looking down on the pavement for a long, silent moment.

Arlene wondered if she was supposed to pass him There was nothing on the ground except a single darkened penny that someone had dropped, and a few cigarette butts. Still silent, the man reached down and picked up the penny.

He held it up and smiled, then put it in his pocket as if he had found a great treasure. How absurd! What need did this man have for a single penny? Why would he even take the time to stop and pick it up?

Throughout dinner, the entire scene nagged at her. Finally, she could stand it no longer. She causally mentioned that her daughter once had a coin collection, and asked if the penny he had found had been of some value.

A smile crept across the man's face as he reached into his pocket for the penny and held it out for her to see. She had seen many pennies before! What was the point of this?

"Look at it." He said. "Read what it says." She read the words "United States of America."

"No, not that; read further."

"One cent?" "No, keep reading."

"In God we Trust?" "Yes!" "And?"

"And if I trust in God, the name of God is holy, even on a coin. Whenever I find a coin I see that inscription. It is written on every single United States coin, but we never seem to notice it! God drops a message right in front of me telling me to trust Him? Who am I to pass it by? When I see a coin, I pray, I stop to see if my trust IS in God at that moment. I pick the coin up as a response to God; that I do trust in Him. For a short time, at least, I cherish it as if it were gold. I think it is God's way of starting a conversation with me. Lucky for me, God is patient and pennies are plentiful!

When I was out shopping today, I found a penny on the sidewalk. I stopped and picked it up, and realized that I had been worrying and fretting in my mind about things I cannot change. I read the words, "In God We Trust," and had to laugh. Yes, God, I get the message.

It seems that I have been finding an inordinate number of pennies in the last few months, but then, pennies are plentiful!

And, God is patient...

Have a blessed day!!

[safenowinspite (safenowinspite)]

Wonderful story...thank you. I looked up that word faith and it said TRUST, also bide which is wait. We often forget to wait on Him. Thats my favorate verse. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding. Those pennies will be one more great reminder from now on.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Carol Fryer

[jewels81475 (jewels81475)]

Thank you much for that uplifting story, I am about to start my day at school and I always check the message board of the morning. That was an inspiring story for the morning. Hope everyone has a great and plentiful day, God bless everyone.
Julie Armstrong-Nelson

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

here is a link to a commentary on the state of our country. Read it if your interested, don't if your not. However, skip the first paragraph or so, the main body of commentary startw with the words.....A while Back....
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Truthwarriors/message/1635

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

here is another.....something we always heard about growing up. Well apparently, it is here.
Once again. Only read if interested, otherwise I don't want to hear about how I should not be using this board for this. I just feel compelled to point out what I find.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Truthwarriors/message/1653

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

i see a lot of people through the course of my day. some happy some sad some expectetant some just go with the flow of life. today some one asked me if i knew where copper wire came from.
i said no. "from two jews fighting over a penny"
i laughed my butt off.
i asked some good elderly friends of mine "hey did you have a nice christmas?" they said that they had. every one was happy with their gifts. i then asked them "where did the idea of giving gifts come from?" their response was: the wise men of course when they brought gifts to jesus. "oh" i said "then where did we get the idea that we have to keep giving gifts every year?" "maybe we're not that wise" the old man said yeah they were jews thats why they stopped giving gifts. i laughed my butt off.
i have a very small butt from lauphing it off every day.

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

i think we should get rid of the phrase "In GoD We Trust" and replace it with "In Money We Trust"
or even better "In Love We Trust" maybe we'd start believing it

ALL THIS FIGHTING TO DEFEND FREEDOM IS A LIE
IT'S NOTHING MORE THAN POSESSION FOR WHICH
WE SO WILLINGLY DIE
<font color="ff0000">AMERICA</font><font color="000000">THE BULLY
BIT OFF MORE THAN WE CAN CHEW
IF YOU STAND IN HER WAY
SHE'LL ELIMINATE YOU
SO GET IN YOUR TANK
AND PICK UP YOUR GUN
BATHING IN YOUR BROTHERS BLOOD
HAS NEVER BEEN SO MUCH FUN
LOOK AT HOW </font><font color="119911">WEALTHY</font><font color="000000">AND FAT WE ARE
DEFEND OUR CONSUMERISM
NOTHING MORE
WE HAVE THE NEED TO CRUSH
EVERYTHING UNLIKE US
OUR FRIENDS ARE </font><font color="119911">GREED</font><font color="000000">AND LUST
NOTHING WILL SATISFY


after you have cut down every tree
and poisoned every water hole
you will come to realize that
YOU CAN 'T EAT MONEY
</font>

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

hey chris the only way to fight the new world order is love. unconditionally loving every one on this planet earth, no matter their belief system. whether it is limiting, or whether they believe goofy, mickey, and donald are the holy trinity. the point is everyone is a part of the whole and their is no true reason for hatred. thank goodness people are waking up by the millions. perhaps we wont make that wacky ending in revelations a reality with our ignorance of how to abide in unconditional love. phew what a mouthful. to say. try to say it ten times fast. my favorite is still "toy boat"

[false_prophet_detecter (false_prophet_detecter)]

remember if you must judge. JUDGE BY ACTIONS NOT WORDS. yeah thats right you people dont even know that you voted in the anti-christ. thanks alot. its ok though we can still stop him by exposing him through love. its time to abide in true love like christ talked about.
when the enemy came to take jesus away peter jumped up to save him and drawing a sword did smite the enemy and cut off his ear. and what did jesus say "he that lives by the sword will die by the sword" "for whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap" and jesus did reach down on the ground and picked up the wounded digit and place it back on the enemy and did heal the enemy when they came to destroy him.
mr. president talks a whole lot about defending posessions and family values, and liberty. but you never here him talk about love because he doesnt know what it is. stop lying to yourself and start being brutally honest about what jesus would do in any of our situations.

BIG SURPRISE i have a suggestion
and i know you cant wait to hear it so here

look at bush whenever he is speaking about terrorists or any other evil in the world and ask yourself "is he talking about himself?"
you just might see a different side of the coin
goodnight fellow human beings i love all of you
even the ones who believe their own lie like tony alamo
no one is special we are all brothers and sisters
we were all meant to transcend

[skeptik (skeptik)]

Slap me if I ever vote Republican again....

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

here's an idea, what about not voting?
before anyone says how stupid an idea that is, and how that is just compounding the problem; hear me out.........Who here really believes that the amerikan voting system works? Do we really think that whoever is really in power behind the great big curtain, would let someone that is not a puppet be put in power of a country that has the ability to destroy the world???.......SO, if this is the case.....humor me.....then if enough of us stopped participating in the mockery we call voting; well, then would that not be akin to pulling back the curtain, and seeing what is really happening? If enough people did not participate, it would become glaringly obvious (even to the most obtuse) that our "vote" is really just a way for those in power to make the average person think that they have a choice in who rules over them.
Actors and celebrities wear t-shirts and buttons that say "Vote or Die", and "Rock the Vote"
it is rubbish! Freedom is an illusion; inside phony a-lame-o's cult, and in the "real world".
The difference is, one is religious, and the other is secular.

[raining (raining)]

we live in this world and are governed by whoever is in control. If it is Stalin, then we suffer whatever ideas he has, etc. We vote to have the lesser of 2 evils in office, someone is going to rule. Stalin or Bush i choose Bush, Hitler or Clinton I choose Clinton. Vote for the lesser of 2 evils, your vote is important! Our forefathers fought and gave their lives to give us the freedoms we so richly enjoy. Go live in a 3rd world country and find out how quickly you would run back to the USA!

In some 3rd world countries this board would be against the law and we would be in jeopardy for speaking out against Tony and his perversions.

Ps: the bible tells us to pray for those in power - they make big decisions that impact our lives here on earth.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

how nice for those in power that you have taken so well to all of the teachings and indoctrinations that have been given to you since childhood. You keep believing, like the good average amerikan, that you should accept the system you cannot change. Hah! Paul Revere, John Hancock, Martin Luther, Jesus himself, and all of the people who feared God more than man; did exactly the opposite of what you say.....Congratulations on being one of the Moral Majorityhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Whether I were to live in a third world country or not was not up to me, but to the Father in Heaven who had me be born in amerika. Just because we still have some shadow and facade of freedom, does not mean that we should just go along to get along. Jesus came to stir things up; to challenge the system, and started the biggest spiritual rebellion ever! God teaches us that His laws are paramount to man's laws. If the choice I have to make is the law of the Land or the Law of Heaven....well then throw my <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> in Jail! About praying for those in power....well, Jesus told us to pray for our enemies too, in fact He told us to pray for everyone. He did not give us guidelines saying "pray in support of those who have the rule over you, even though they be corrupt". So here is my prayer for those in "power"::Father, your will be done; I will not bow my knee to any earthly "leader". I ask that you remove these antichrists from positions of "power" where they are able to do the things that phony a-lame-O would do if he had unlimited amounts of money at his disposal. And Father wake your children to see how evil and corrupt there "leaders" are; so that they will follow you only, and not support some puppet who claims (haahaaha) to be a "christian". Thank you in Jesus name, Your will be done.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

On the matter of choosing Stalin or Bush......you really think that people chose Stalin, or bush!?! Do you not yet understand that you only think you have a choice? The entire voting system is set up to make you think that your voice counts; when in fact it never has (except to God the Father). Look throughout all of history and show me an example where serfs and peasents had a choice in who there king was (besides hebrew old testament history).
As for going to a third world country.....there is no need for me to do that. amerika is going there all on its own, thanks to faithful citizens like yourself who keep believing and doing what they are told....we live in this world and are governed by whoever is in control... this opening comment of yours says it all. You sure do! I however, while being in this world bodily, am working my hardest to not be of it. Your "leaders" are not mine; your "idols" and "rules" are not mine to follow. I bow my knees and take my orders from one and ONE only....My Heavenly Father.

[anchored (anchored)]

Wow, hey Christopher19, you need to go live in a third world banana republic for a while or go live in China and work in one of their slave factories where you live right in the factories and they tell you every move to make. They work 12 hour days and if you don't get your quota out they make you work until it's done, even if it takes 24 hours and then you start the next 24 hours and sometimes you are beaten for failing to meet the required regimen. You eat, work and sleep right in the factories, that is where you live (if you want to call it that). You have no freedom, no choice of food, no comfortable accomodations, no entertainment and their pay is pittance. Wow, notice some striking similarites here to life at the alamo foundation.

Yes, there are a lot of imperfections in the world, including America, but I would still rather live here than anywhere else. I am thankful to God for the USA and the freedoms we still have. We are supposed to live one day at a time and be thankful for the things God has blessed us with instead of being so critical of the (still) most blessed nation on the planet.

Believe it, you wouldn't have all the freedoms you are now enjoying, and obviously taking for granted, to include posting on this board, if you lived in most of the other countries of the world. Read the Bible, the whole world lieth in wickedness. I would still rather live in America. Thank you dear Lord for that!

[carolfryer (carolfryer)]

Great story cross. I often am reminded of that myself. When a tap then a slap then a kick doesnt work He may have to use a sledge hammer. Dont ever want to go there.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

If we are going to compare ourselves (as a country) to the rest of the world, well then yes, amerika is still the nation with seemingly the most amount of freedoms, and apparant moralities left. However, Jesus taught that we are not to compare ourselves to the world around us; but to hold ourselves to a Heavenly standard.
So now, when looked at in this light....how does amerika measure up? Do we enjoy the same freedoms here in amerika that our Heavenly Father affords us? Judged by your standard, ancient Israel was far more in the right, and had many more freedoms and liberties to be thankful for than any other nation; but did that stop God from sending EVIL countries to enslave His chosen nation???
Those of you who tell me how wonderful I have things, are being a little redundant. I am fully aware and eternally thankful that my Heavenly Father saw fit to place me in amerika. My heart breaks everyday when I think of how awful it is in other countries for the innocent children who grow up living under tyrants and harsh regimes, where there are absolutely no freedoms. I sometimes wonder why I was not born in their place, and they in mine. What is so special about me, that I don't have to suffer as they do. It breaks my heart! But then it makes me thankfull and reminds me to pray for them...all of them.....more to follow.....

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

It is funny to me that the same freedoms you say that I take for granted (namely the freedom of speech) is the one that I exercize the most!
So, who appreciate a thing more....the one who uses it most, or the one who talks about how wonderful it is, but then tell those who use it that they don't appreciate it?
Yes amerika has been the country of hope for millions~ the nation of dreams for countless, and the fresh start for those seeking a new way of life. I know this and love this about what our country was meant to stand for. However, I am crying out to all who will listen : that if we do not wake up (as a nation) and take the reins of a very powerful and reckless "horse"; that is running loose and trampling those who stand in its way. that we will lose all that has been given us.
Like the servant that hid his talent, and the Master took it away. If amerika does not exercize its "freedoms" we WILL lose them!
Just like we stood up, took responsibility for our own lives, and left phony a-lame-O's cult; it is time for us to open our eyes and see that we live in and even larger and more decietvully destructive cult. The cult of amerikan consumerism. Long live freedom, down with greed.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

one final thought before I head off to work; where I will play servant to southeners who eat, drink, and spend their worries away, all the while never wondering when the ride will be over and they will have to account for all they have done or not done........anyway, on to the thought.... All of the people who have died under harsh regimes and tyrants, many for their belief in God.... who told us how wonderful our country was, because we were still free to worship how we wanted. What did they all warn us of?? They all told us to watch and be vigilant, lest what happened to them, happen to us.

[false_prophet_detector (false_prophet_detector)]

KID PRAYERS
Dear God: Did you mean for the giraffe to look like that or was it an accident? Norma

Dear God: Instead of letting people die and having to make new ones, why don't you just keep the ones you have now? Jane

Dear God: Who draws the lines around the countries? Nan

Dear God: I went to this wedding and they kissed right in church. Is that okay? Neil

Dear God: Thank you for my baby brother, but what I prayed for was a puppy. Joyce

Dear God: It rained for our whole vacation and is my father mad! He said some things about you that people are not supposed to say, but I hope you will not hurt him anyway. Your friend (but I am not going to tell you who I am.)

Dear God: Please send me a pony. I never asked for anything before. You can look it up. Bruce

Dear God: If we come back as something, please don't let me be Jennifer Horton, because I hate her. Denise

Dear God: I want to be just like my daddy when I get big, but not with so much hair all over. Sam

[false_prophet_detector (false_prophet_detector)]

Dear God: Maybe Cain and Abel would not kill each other so much if they had their own rooms. It works with my brother. Larry

Dear God: I do not think anybody could be a better God. Well I just want you to know that I am not just saying this because you are God already. Charles

Dear God: We read Thomas Edison made light. But in Sunday School, we learned that you did it. So I bet he stole your idea. Sincerely, Donna

Dear God: If you watch me in church on Sunday, I'll show you my new shoes. Mickey

Dear God: My brother told me about being born, but it doesn't sound right. They are just kidding, aren't they? Marsha

Dear God: Of all the people who worked for you, I like Noah and David the best. Rob

Dear God: I bet it is very hard for you to love all the people in the world. There are only four people in our family and I can never do it. Nan

Dear God: I think about you sometimes, even when I'm not praying. Elliot

Dear God: I think the stapler is one of your greatest inventions. Ruth

[false_prophet_detector (false_prophet_detector)]

Dear God: Please dont forget to bless Iraq and the rest of the world like you bless us. Sincerely eo

[hollydolly (hollydolly)]

whats wrong with owning a gun? i bet if some huge riot broke out or this country was being attacked you'd wish to God u had a gun instead of all the other people including the criminals who attain them illegaly!lol comeon! its always been our right and should stay the same! even if the law does change i will still be a gun owner and i'm sure alot of others too so those of you that get rid of yours or agree with not having them u will be looking over your shoulder the rest of your lives! lol

[pobox398 (pobox398)]

Thanks, eo, for your "KID PRAYERS" posts.
Kids have such a way of seeing things - always a fresh perspective that tends to melt the heart of saved and unsaved alike. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

[daddys_gurl (daddys_gurl)]

Ya I agree w/u Holly. Although I currently don't own one I do want one eventually (well my husband does). And - anchored - I agree w/you also.
Chris I have to say that when it comes to politics you and I don't see eye to eye at all. I just can't see throwing my hands in the air and leaving things to God. No your vote doesn't actually count "per say", 'cause it goes by a majority of votes by each state. I think they come from designated people designated to represent each state. But my point is that like anchor said.....its our "right" to vote. I sure hope my grandfather didn't fight for no reason at all. No you dont' HAVE to vote, but if you don't like the way things r run then do something about it. Maybe try running for office and try changing the world.
Ok I'm done...........Politics and religion are 2 things people could argue about for hrs. This is just my opinion. Just like u had yours.

Isn't this board about a rapist and poligamist anyway??

[hollydolly (hollydolly)]

i voted for bush and i own a large gun.........somebody stop me!

[false_prophet_detector (false_prophet_detector)]

there is nothing wrong with owning anything
i was simply pointing out another contradiction.
that alot of christians preach jesus out of one side of their mouth and war out of the other.
jc said the only war worth fighting is the war against the self
Hidden Book
I Erik chapter 3:29
you can look it up
lol


i enjoy shooting bums once in awhile myself.
i usually use an elephant gun.
but like the bow and arrow as well.

if your going to profess a belief just go all the way.

i dont defend any belief so i can do what i want.
yay

[false_prophet_detector (false_prophet_detector)]

cross your brick story was way cooler than your penny story

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

"Isn't this board about a rapist and poligamist anyway??"..........Sure is, and that is why I mention the things I do. Rape is still rape, even when it is spiritual, mental, emotional, and cultural; instead of just physical. And as for the poligamy, well....that can be spiritual as well, we just tend to call it worshiping other gods. You know, like the Amerikan Idol....money....for instance.
"I just can't see throwing my hands in the air and leaving things to God."......this is funny, because isn't that exactly what Jesus told us to do? Namely, he said: "Vengeance is mine, I will repay." He fulfilled the old laws of an eye for an eye, etc... when he died on the cross. And if we are to do as Jesus, well.....did he not heal those who came to put him to death? When he reattached the soliers ear, and stopped peter from coming to His defence.
And your ideas about the vote, that is just my point. No one really knows how it works. If it really worked on a voting system, it would be very simple....ie.... you have several choices, and you make one "vote" and that "vote" is counted. Simple enough, but amerika's voting system is made extremely complicated so that no one really understands it; and that way no one knows just who to blame for fixing the "votes".

[false_prophet_detector (false_prophet_detector)]

yeah i like the one about how they asked him to pay taxes. and he kinda sighed like he was bored and said go take the first fish you catch and open his mouth. take that and pay your taxes.
ding...ding...ding...
maybe thats why christians put the fish on the back of their cars to atract prosperity.. hmmmm
i never thought of that
any way if tony was so powerful. when they were mad at him for not paying taxes he shoulda went fishin haha

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

So in essence, Jesus didn't pay taxes. The fish did. I like the one where he was asked if they should pay taxes; and instead of answering them, he asked whose inscription was on the gold piece. When they replied Caesar's, he said : "render unto caesar, that which is caesar's"....but wait, Did God not say that he owned all the cattle upon a thousand hills, yea even the hills? If He created the universe, well then what belonged to an earthly, temporary, false human ruler? NOTHING.

[daddys_gurl (daddys_gurl)]

Well I never proclaimed to be a Christian so I guess that why I still have a problem w/leaving EVERYTHING to God. I just think he has other things to worry about than worrying who is going to be president and how or if people are voting.
Thats just me..........

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

I don't claim to be a christian, nor do I believe Jesus would make that claim either.
"Christians", for the most part, are the biggest reason why people who don't believe in God want to stay that way.
have you ever seen the bumper sticker that says: Dear God, save me from your followers...nuff said.
A large portion of the things done in the name of christianity, go against the basic message that Jesus taught us. Pick any topic, and we could point out the glaring differences in Jesus' teachings and the modern church's interpretations. Any topic.

[daddys_gurl (daddys_gurl)]

No thank you, I have other things to do than argue about religion. Its just not my cup of tea. We can talk about our kids, sports, the beach.....but I don't do religion.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

You say argue...I say discuss....Whateverhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif No big deal, was just making a point.
It is not something we have to discuss.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

for anyone interested.....here is a link about what may happen in 2006
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=9995
and this is what is happening to our soldiers as of now.
http://www.rense.com/general69/du.htm

(Message edited by christophr19 on January 21, 2006)

[hollydolly (hollydolly)]

chris...............come back to the singley side man! don't let your other genes take over! lololololol

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

hah! Ju soo funny!
Why, whats wrong with the pair I'm wearing?

[arron (arron)]

JESUS CHRIST IS THE GOD OF THE BIBLE. HE IS THE ONE AND THE ONLY ONE TO BE WORSHIPED AND ADORED. there is no other GOD besides JESUS. the trinity IS COMPOSED OF THE FATHER... AND THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST... JESUS IS THE ONE WHO CAME TO DIE FOR MANS SIN AND HE WILL COME AGAIN.. HE IS STILL GOD.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

BTW cuz, did you read the links I posted?
or do you, like some people, just think I am crazy?

[hollydolly (hollydolly)]

both.........chris lolol

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Hah! who you callin' crazy?!
thanx for reading them instead of just assuming they were bull$h!t. You know what they say: "when you assume, you make an A$$ out of you and me".
Lots of love from my little family to yours.
Hey, give me your email, and I will send you lots of pix of Jayden Phoenix.

[hollydolly (hollydolly)]

holly_elmore@hotmail.com

[hollydolly (hollydolly)]

its an underscore between name k?

[false_prophet_detector (false_prophet_detector)]

NO BUSH KNOW PEACE
KNOW BUSH NO PEACE!!!...

[smitty (smitty)]

Eric:I'm sure you don't want to hear this, but you are still enslaved to Tony A. I mean, your ranting hat of anything christian only makes sence if you deep down BELIVE that Tony repersents true christian behaviour. If I thought that the Foundation realy DID repersent Christianity, I'd probably think like you. By going along in this vein you're just a self-fullfilling example of of what Tony said happens to backsliders...think about it... I don't know what your beef with the Gospel is, but it bears absolutly no relation to what I see in the Bible, nor does it describe the people in my church who have been praying for me and supporting my parents, even when I was still a member of the foundation. Please stop, you are only doing what Tony wants you to do...

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

The BEEF is not with the gospel according to Jesus, but the gospel according to: selfish, self-serving, self-righteous, spiritually lazy, afraid of their own shadow, willing to follow whoever tells them they don't have to do the work themselves, willing to follow a man rather than the spirit, etc...ad naseum...."christians"
You know, the gospel that says: pay your taxes, follow all the rules (even the ones that go against God), follow your leaders..pastors..teachers..earthly authorities without question or the least resistance. And then just sit back, pray the prayer of Jabez, and wait for the "blessings"....money really, to pour in. If the teachings of Jesus are to be believed, well...he had the same beef!
Do all of you think that everything you learned in the commune was wrong? Do you thing that there really is no small group of ungodly and deviant people who are seeking to control all of the wealth and the world? Why? Because phony told it to you, then it can't be true? That fool just happened to find some info (from many other people who had been doing their own research for years) that he claimed for his own.
Do you all really agree with the modern church world? Are today's "christians" really like Christ??? Some of you might have thought that phony represented Christ....but I, a little child who was born into that system of beliefs....I saw that phony was evil by the age of 7-8 yrs old.
As for the people who aren't following that "gospel" of corruption, well are they doing things in ignorance that are hurting them?
Do they support this corrupt government? Do they follow the american guidelines for educating their children? Do they put into their body(temple)food, drink, and medicine that are causing them death and destruction? Do they follow the religion of america....namely consumerism? Do they allow their children to learn the accepted history of america, without giving them the real truth?

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

FPD is not speaking harshly out of anger, it is more in line with how you would wake someone who is deeply asleep and doesn't realize the danger they are in. Sometimes you have to shake and startle them awake.
Amerika's sin is mostly one of ignorance.....willful ignorance. We as a country choose to be good little consumers, and consume without thought as to how we acquire our "things".
We cry our support for american made, by waving flags made in china!
our daily lives...the "real world"...is really just an illusion, that we swallow and accept willingly, so we don't have to think about what it is going to cost us when the bill comes.
we as a society live in a credit card mentality.
Buy now...pay later...and later...
No more for me, I will pay now. I will take the heat for being someone who will stand against the sea of conformist, and say that I am not afraid of what this big bad society will say about, or do to me. The truth is all around us, if you choose to see it.

[smitty (smitty)]

Sorry Chris.. That's not what I understand when I read his posts.And I totaly disagree with you about this supposed link between Christian and Consumerism. It just doesn't lineup with what I know to be christian principles. All I'm getting from FPD is a lot of rage and hate at God and Christ.Sorry, but that's the way his posts read..

[carolfryer (carolfryer)]

So are we up and running again ?

[the_truth (the_truth)]

article about how a girl accusing bush of assault and rape turned up dead.

http://blatanttruth.org/bushcrimefamily.php#margie

[smitty (smitty)]

Pleeeze! Let's try to keep this discussion back where it was.... on Tony Alamo and re-connecting with ex-members.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Sorry Chris.. That's not what I understand when I read his posts.And I totaly disagree with you about this supposed link between Christian and Consumerism. It just doesn't lineup with what I know to be christian principles. All I'm getting from FPD is a lot of rage and hate at God and Christ.Sorry, but that's the way his posts read.......
Well, that is your truth.
Does not mean that this is true for others. Some have found very many similarities between the modern church world, and the pharisees; and very few similarities between the average amerikan pew warmer and Jesus. It is wonderful that you have a personal relationship with God through Jesus; however, is your testimony typical of the average "christian"?
If the shoe fits...wear it...if not, pass it along, right? FPD is not making personal judgement calls; how you live your testimony is no concern of his.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

About the link between "christians" and consumerism.....well, take a look at the average american church (any denomination) after service is over. Lots of people come out of a fancy building, dressed in trendy yet modest finery, make comfortable small talk with others of same caste, go out to their new and shiny vehicles, proceed out to the roads where they will clog traffic; while trying to politely race each other to the newest and best or personal favourite public eating trough...I mean fancy restaraunt....where they will proceed to bring down holy terror on the kitchen and waitstaff; and after treating "hired servants" like dirt, they leave next to or sometimes nothing in gratuity. Trust me....I have worked in restarants for over ten years; Sundays are hell!
Ask any person in the service industry about the sunday church crowd, careful though, you might hear a few cuss words thrown in.
Now I ask you, does any of that sound like Jesus?
And yes, I know. That is not everybody that goes to church; but we are talking majorities here. About Eric's..hate and rage... well, that is between Jesus and he. Jesus called the pharisees and sadducees of His day: snakes, pigs, whited sepulchures, etc... These names are extremely insulting and vile in the hebrew culture. And He went in to an ongoing "church" service in the temple, and drove out (with a whip) the people who were making a mockery of God's temporary home (you know, temporary cuz he left it to come into our hearts).
Hey Eric, go make a whip. Let's drive phony's enflamed ego and testes out of town!

[smitty (smitty)]

Why is it you only target "Christians" for consuming? What, don't Agnostics, Atheists, Humanists, Muslims, Budhists, etc. etc. etc. also drive, eat and wear clothes? Do the floks at my (mainstream) church engage in small talk, sure, that congregation is as big a part of the neighborhood as any other institution, and I would rather have friends and heighbors meet at church instead of a bar oh by the way, a lot of that "small talk" relates to church matters such as: which Deacon goes to visit which people. Do we have enough drivers to take our work detail to Mexico to help build the school that their church needs. Other pepple are talking to visitors and lining up people for Bible study. Ect, Ect.Wes, Jesus called the Pharasees snakes, that doesn't give FPD the rationale to curse God and Christ here. Oh B.T.W. it was the opression of the common people thru religious laws of the Pharasees that Jesus hated, not their clothes.

It sounds like your beef is more with western civilization in general rather than Christianity in particular.

[anchored (anchored)]

A Big AMEN Smitty!

Most of the time FPD is ignored along with chris19 by most people on this board because they know how off-track they are. They don't want to waste their time responding to their repetitious ramblings and blashpemous remarks toward the Lord. "Their" because they seem to be in complete agreement and support of each other.

For sure they target Christians. Yes, Christians have faults and are on different spiritual levels and sometimes aren't discreet. God will deal with them if they are sincere Christians. I'd like to say that I've seen many Christians who are good testimonies in restaurants, also. How does chris19 know the "average Christian" so well? What generalization!!! Has he done a nationwide study? Sounds very judgmental and bitter. Tony Alamo is getting away with despicable atrocities in the name of Christianity and chris19 wants to focus on the bad habits of restaurant Christians?

What's wrong with "small talk?" What some people consider "small talk" is very interesting sometimes. It helps you to get to know the other individual better. The Lord wants us to be human beings too and be down to earth and not be TOO HEAVENLY MINDED TO BE ANY EARTHLY GOOD. I'm sure Paul "small talked" many times as he was getting to know people he was preaching to, striving to be all things to all men.

For sure, I have gotten the same impression as you Smitty, that it appears chris19's beef is with the whole of western civilization. As for FPD, he is downright blasphemous. He's on dangerous ground. Best to ignore his posts.

[smitty (smitty)]

Thanks Anchored! Normally I try to ignore the stuff myself, but it was just getting too "thick" for me to stand it, so I had to post.
On to better things....(P.S. do I know you? I was in from '71 to '86 and worked the office on the Ridge as well as Tree Crew.)

[fooled_no_more (fooled_no_more)]

^^Amen!!!!!!!!!

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

I know this might get ignored, but oh well. Let's see if anyone reads it.

...It sounds like your beef is more with western civilization in general rather than Christianity in particular.......well, you got closer than ever with this statement. Except it isn't western civilization that bothers me, but Modern Man's idea of Civilaztion. Do you agree with how Man, as a civilization, has treated his temporary home that the Creator gave to him? Do you like all of the numerous "inventions" that man has created with the talents and abilities God has given him? Yes some wonderful things have been made and done by our ingenuities; but some times it seems that we have done much more harm than good.

Why is it you only target "Christians" for consuming?......Actually, I don't "target" anyone. I believe that all of the groups you mentioned, are misled. I happen to be talking to you about "Christians" because I thought all here were of that faith. If I was talking to any of other groups, I would substitute the word christian with their idea, creed, or group.

Most of the time FPD is ignored along with chris19 by most people on this board because they know how off-track they are.....ha ha! Thank you.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Okay, lets continue
....How does chris19 know the "average Christian" so well? What generalization!!! Has he done a nationwide study? Sounds very judgmental and bitter.....

Actually, when I left the commune, I went to many different churches. I was no respector of faith or denomination. Everything from Christian (all denominations), Catholic (yes, even the evil enemy church), Buhdist, even churches in different languages. I would go to church with anyone who asked me. In fact, I still lik going to church today! I was a youth leader, and singer at one church, part of several churches drama deparments, part of choirs, travel on mission trips with various churches; and almost joined YWAM to be a missionary. You know what I found in all of those places? Many kind and wonderful friends who put their heart and soul into what they believed was right. But more so I found a group of comfortable, mediocre, people who thought they were right and all else were wrong. Even met a few tony alamos in training. cont......

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

I knew that God was not with phony, so I looked in every church I came across; and you know what, I met God. He brought me to know that He is the Creator; He created all of the universe as His. Why would he choose to reside in a drab and dull stone building? To follow His spirit and look all around me to see His handiwork. That everything around me, could teach me. That He would reveal Himself to me in whatever fashion He chose, and to really look and listen for Him. That being a believer and follower of Jesus' example, was more than saying I was. That church was everyday, all the time; church is now.

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Tony Alamo is getting away with despicable atrocities in the name of Christianity and chris19 wants to focus on the bad habits of restaurant Christians.......

Yes I agree that phony alamo is getting away with horrible things. But does God consider one sin above another? If they all send you to hell, then why do you concentrate on one and leave all the rest? Yes phony is Evil! But there are countless others who are Evil as well. Should we not tell about what they are doing to us?

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

IF I was going to be bitter...I might be bitter about being a six year old, and getting whacked with a three edged ruler for minor infractions by a religions zealot who thought she was doing God's will. Or being held down by "angelic" alamoite children, with my eyes forced open, while having salt poured in my eyes. Or many other things we lived through in the commune...BUT no, I choose to forgive these things in the name of ignorance (willing though it may be) and let those who did these things work out their own salvation.

Well, that should do it for now. Gotta to run and explore the universe that God put me in.
have a good night fellow humans. Lots of Love, Tophr

[smitty (smitty)]

Chris..Thanks for taking the time to lay out your thoughts so throughly.It's going to take me some time to chew on them and digest, but I think I see your point.Have fun with your exploring...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

Thank you. It sometimes take me many words to explain in a way that makes sense, the angle I am seeing from. I appreciate you taking the time to really read my post.
"There are many wrongs, and not as many rights; but be careful, what maybe one for you, maybe the opposite for another".


(Message edited by christophr19 on February 10, 2006)

[christophr19 (christophr19)]

If Jesus gets mad at these words....well then why did he not punish those (the church people, in His time) who really talked evil to him? He not only didn't get mad at the them, He died on the cross to show how much He loved them!
He did not call them reprobates, weasels, blasphemors, etc... He did not even respond to their taunts.
Hey EO, question for you. What would you do, if you met some man who claimed to be a messiah, and taught what JC taught? Would you be like the "church world" of Jesus' time, or would listen and befriend.
To everyone else, let's see what EO's answer is; I think some of you would be suprised at how the person you think Eric is, would treat a man like this. The Eric I know....well, I already know the answer to my question to him.