The Parallel is Amazing

[heynow]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/exclusivebrethren_1.shtml

[iasmann]

Many similarities but a few differences.

The biggest difference I saw was that the "Man of God" went to bed with only one female follower.

[fullofquestions]

There is a day of reckoning coming.

[artwise_one]

fullofquestions is pushing a Christian cult on FactNet.

[anchored]

Here it is in a nut shell. Tony Alamo is a wizard at manipulating people and using them against each other to his own selfish advantage and evil agenda.

He, not uses, but MISUSES fear and wrath scriptures from the Bible and other clever psychological techniques to control his zombies.

The "Alamo" has become their god and has the final authority on every move they make, the Word of God out the window. They have totally sold out to the "Alamo." He's convinced them that his word pre-empts the Word of God.

Yup, once again, it's the "Battle of the Alamo," alright and I pray that, once again, it will be captured and the slaves set free.

REMEMBER THE ALAMO?

They had their "<font color="000000"><font size="+1">DAY OF RECKONING"</font></font>

[smitty]

I remember that at the Alamo 160-odd Texans stood up against the tyranny of Gen Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana.They were wiped out, but like the Spartans of old at Thermopylae, they bought the time necessary to defeate Santa Ana at San Jacinto and create the Republic of Texas. I object to those brave men being compared to the depraved beast known as Tony Alamo.

[anchored]

I wasn't trying to say that. They were the complete opposite of Tony Alamo. They're going to be remembered for their bravery. Alamo is going to be remembered for being a World Pervert.

I guess I should have been more clear. I didn't ever mean to compare those brave men to the coward Tony Alamo. Thanks Smitty, we want to keep it real. Didn't mean to make the comparison, that wasn't my point. My bad.

(Message edited by anchored on February 09, 2007)

[smitty]

Thanks Anchored,I understand your point. It's just that in this day when most people don't know their history,I wanted to set the record straight about the Battle of the Alamo and it's defenders.A closer analogy would be comparing Tony &amp; Co. to Hitler and the Reich leadership cadre in the final days of WWII holed up in the Furherbunker in Berlin....

[tbone_1972]

Hey smitty,

I remember the old saugus days when some of the brothers used to refer to you as poindexter,because you always seemed to shine with an intelligence that stood out from the rest.When you were drafting for century 21 or something like that. Myself, Angelo benetti, Joey Orlando, Keith Kelly were on the ridge as prayer warriors. Anyway, I'm very happy that you've gone on to be a huge success. Lord continue to Bless you more.

[tbone_1972]

Hey smitty,

I remember the old saugus days when some of the brothers used to refer to you as poindexter,because you always seemed to shine with an intelligence that stood out from the rest.When you were drafting for century 21 or something like that. Myself, Angelo benetti, Joey Orlando, Keith Kelly were on the ridge as prayer warriors. Anyway, I'm very happy that you've gone on to be a huge success. Lord continue to Bless you more.

[anchored]

Oh well, I was intelligent enough when I recognized what Tony Alamo had become after the raid to flee his folly and his perverted wickedness. To me that was a huge success.

Everyone's strong or weak in different areas of man's knowledge. I'd rather be a failure in American History than fail in common sense.

Anyway, if getting to heaven depended on how intelligent or not we are, we'd all end up losers.

[skeptik]

Thing is, I may have a good brain, and may be an intelligent guy, but I like to think that it's an innate gift from a generous God. Some are talented in the arts, some in sports, some in business. I always tend to shine in academic pursuits. But the point is, I believe that everyone has a gift of some kind. If it's discovered and applied, fantastic-and if not, well, don't let it go to waste. And one of the reasons that I limited my involvement with the Foundation and did not move in (and there are many of these reasons that I didn't move in), was that my educational ambitions and desires would not be looked upon very favorably. It was bad enough haggling with them over my attending college and i didn't even live at the Foundation!

One of the proverbial "bones of contention" with certain OC's that I knew and visited with, was when they would trot out something revisionist in terms of History, and because I spent as much time in a library as they'd spent coming up with this hooey, I was often able to refute various things (but I was at least friendly and non-threatening about it). And of course, they'd get torked about this blow to their individual and collective pride, and begin to rebuke me for being too "worldly."

Of course, there were a few OC's who were rather intelligent, and they were the ones I liked to visit with, because we could bounce our knowledge off on each other. And as long as we didn't bring up religion-and their particular interpretaions of certain scriptures and other feats of Biblical Gymnastics, we got on just great. But the OC's who more or less appointed themselves my "guardians," they were totally anti-intellectual, as well as anti-common sense.

(Message edited by skeptik on February 09, 2007)

[smitty]

T-Bone.. Thanks for the kind words. Skeptic, just for the record, belive me,I thank God every day for whatever talents he gave me. I don't think I ever bumped into you there since I was generaly viewed by the "Older Bros" as some kind of crank eccentric, and as such would not have been generaly allowed contact with you. As long as Bruce LaKoffka and I were working on a project for Tony, they generaly left us alone.

Anyways, like the old saying: It's not what you know (education, career ect.) it's WHO you know (the Lord)http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[redeemed_9131970]

Speaking of keeping it real.

It’s a given that within this forum’s guide lines, we are all free to post whatever and however we care to; but don’t sense and sensibility go a long, long way?

With such a myriad of posts and posters, there’s bound to be some toe-crunching – intentional and un-intentional. On occasion, some well meant posts may easily get misconstrued.



Lest we forget…

We are dealing with a perverted ego-maniac who habitually justifies whatever means used to achieve his out of control, criminal self-indulgences: rape, pedophilia, child abuse, whoremongering, lying, lascivious behavior, lewed conversation , thievery, plagiarism, stolen identity, covetousness, adultery, slander, hate (which is murder), fornication, greed, drunkenness, wastefulness, etc.

Recently there was a post (re-post) that I intentionally responded strongly to. For the sake of those who read it, and may have taken offense at it, I offer this clarification.

First of all, my intentions have never been to willingly offend genuinely concerned individuals.

Considering the future/current 'welfare' (a true oxy-moron in this case http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif ) of those ‘captives’ who, at this present time, are without power to simply leave the compound; isn’t it important (for those of us not just wanting to see a judicious end to their captor’s reign of terror, but to also see a healthy end to his captives’ captivity) to post responsibly on those sensitive issues?

Point being, if posts are made – through frustration, innocence or ignorance – that are even slightly tinged with initiating alternatives that in any way replicate previous cult demises whose very endings were tragic in nature, then I am a strong advocate of using self-restraint in airing such views as viable options. They are at the very least inhumane and at the very most un-Christian.

Most of us (ex-members that is) are all too familiar with toe knee’s non-stop conspiracy rhetoric. Is it a far stretch to conclude: with such lunacy being one of the basic trains of thought he systematically force-feeds to the young (raised there all their lives) and the feeble (lacking the wits to honestly reason any better), that <u>he will twist our posts however he can to support the absurd ‘legitimacy’ of his rants</u>?

It’s especially irritating to know he does and will continue to twist our words every time the opportunity presents itself when we unwittingly allow our posts to play into his hand. I’m for putting him on the defensive and keeping him there! Don’t we have the ability to keep him from turning the tables on us by using our own words against us? Aren’t we the ultimate victors in this fight? The Lord says we are! I say amen and amen!!! Keep that short-legged weasel on the run!!!!

In Christ – cp

[saved_21570]

Carolyn, I always love your posts. Keep it up. Tom

[raining]

same here - you didn't offend me- Tony must hate your post because he sure put a huge target sign on you. So keep up the good work, keep the weasels running.

[skeptik]

In my dealings with the OC's who would bring me to services, was that I was always asking questions, as well as correcting them when they needed correcting (and there were many situations that called for that, trust me). And this youthful audacity and a tendency on my part to adress them strictly in equal terms was something that frequently created a bone or two of contention. Not that I regret it-they knew where they stood. Rather, it would be nice if we could have disagreed without being disagreeable, but such was not my call to make. They never could accept nor tolerate the notion that I don't tend to put on chains without asking questions first.

One such memory stands out. One of the OC's would rail on me for my studying or for extracurricular club involvement and for generally trying to get something out of my whole college experience. He called it all "vanity" and "without meaning." And so he had the impression that whatever activities he deemed were important were by default meant to be just as important to me (never mind the fact that I was not a member of the Foundation). For instance, he'd want me to come over for "fellowship" with him and some of the other brothers, which was more of an order than a request by anybody's standards. And when I let it fly that I was say, studying for an exam, he'd come unglued over it.

The appearance of having no control over someone in that context must have been very frustrating and humiliating to boot, especially with someone like him. And for someone like him to take someone like me, and try to make me their "project" was even more laughable. I mean, he knew what he was getting after he met me, right? I always knew there was a difference between giving one's life to Christ, and then there was surrendering one's will to the whims and dictates of the group. Sometimes, he had to be reminded of that. Does not mean that I didn't go to services nor fellowship with them: I just didn't buy into the peer-pressure and letting someone else dominate me like that. Some people just refused to learn.

And Smitty, in my trips down to Arkansas to attend services, I regret not having met you. I'm sure we would have gotten on quite well. You seem to enjoy studying history, as i do. I'm currently researching certain treaties made by the Allies in both World Wars-the consequences of some of the things enacted have effects even unto today, it seems.

(Message edited by skeptik on February 10, 2007)

[no_stoppin_me]

Skeptik,

The fact that the OC's looked down on your desire to continue your education should come as no surprise. Whole chapters of our history books were literally cut out, if it were something that TA thought we should not learn about it. (Remember that CP?)

And heaven forbid we see works of art from history that portrayed the naked human body!! Oh my!!

Why should we learn things like algebra, geometry, or pretty much anything besides the "basics", I mean we were going to be raptured soon, right?

[heynow]

Sceptic, Very interesting posts. I don't know who you are but, I could bet dollars to donuts I was probably one of those OC's discouraging you from pursuing an education. Here it is years later and I have 100+ college units and now work as a professional. Ironic isn't it?

[skeptik]

See, when I'd tell them that a semester was ending, the Overseer or his immediate subordinate OC would try to talk me out of enrolling for another semester. Ya, he'd say, "it's more improtant for you to become a soldier in the Lord's Army," or "you have a good brain, but God wants you to use it to His Glory." Or, gasp, even saying, "God doesn't want you to go to school; He wants you to move into the Foundation." Quote unquote. Just a quick question: did Comrade Alamo have these guys on a quota system as to how many people they were required to get moved into the Foundation?

And of course, he'd come unglued when I'd display the unmitigated gall to second-guess him on that, by saying point-blank: "Is it that God doesn't want me to go to school, or is it YOU that doesn't want me to go to school?" Or, "Is it that God wants me to move into the Foundation, or is it just YOU?" Oh, and when he'd "instruct" me not to sign up for anymore classes without checking with them first, I'd counter by saying, "And who are YOU that I have to run this by you?" All these things, I'd put the ball in his court, put him on the spot about it, turn the proverbial tables on him. And then, confronted with an actual thinking person as I was, he'd stammer and stumble around on the subject, and then awkwardly try to throw out a seemingly irrelevant Scripture to justify his position. It was both kinda laughable, but also somewhat disturtbing too.

And the patronizing and controlling manner of this overseer (as well as that of the OC directly below him) was just unsufferable. I mean, this overweening arrogance and high-handed demeanor just irked and aggravated me to no end. It got so bad, that we had a rather heated argument one night, and we about had it out. Fortunately, there was a "brother" who stood between us before it got completely out of hand.

Well, as it turned out, I parted ways with them some time after that. I wound up graduating with no less than two degrees-and I'm currently looking to finish with two more-before seeing about trying my hand at graduate school. There are many things that I wouldn't mind doing with education-perhaps a dual graduate degree in Law and Finance? But that's later down the pike; I may find something else completely unrelated to pursue. One day at a time, as they say. I mean not to boast here-not for a moment would I want anyone to assume this. I am merely saying that I'm passionately committed to education, not just for me, but for everyone.

Oh, and Heynow? My name is Jaynes-Bill Jaynes.

wjaynes@hotmail.com

[heynow]

I can't remember making any demands on someones education persuit. I might have said something like "It is good to serve the Lord." or something like that. The other stuff is a little wierd even for the foundation. Even though I was there for quite awhile and after reading this board I realize there is so much I wasn't aware of. Knowledge is power. I will send you an email.

[heynow]

I can't remember making any demands on someones education persuit. I might have said something like "It is good to serve the Lord." or something like that. The other stuff is a little wierd even for the foundation. Even though I was there for quite awhile and after reading this board I realize there is so much I wasn't aware of. Knowledge is power. I will send you an email.

[skeptik]

I think another thing-and this was obviously something they weren't used to-was rather than ask what they thought about college, I announced my intentions, and consequently implied that I wasn't required to seek their permission. And rather than being a supplicant, I approached them exclusively on equal terms; do that, and their responce will show you just what they consider your role in your dealings with them is really all about.

So this Overseer was a complete strutting egotist-not a lick of humility or a willingness to understand anyone not of his ideological stripe. Always making disparagingly condescending remarks about everyone that wasn't a member of the Foundation who had the gall to consider themselves Christians! Always talking down to people, and never hesitated to berate the other OC's that seemed to come under his "command." Tested my patience to no end. Like I said, we about slugged it out one night.

Just before we parted ways, he'd advised me that everyone at the Foundation in Arkansas and I think also in California, that they were all praying in shifts, in the hopes that I'd be moving in there, and that God's Will would be done. He said that once I moved in, that he and I would even be roommates! To which I said-and I remember this very well-I said, "I don't believe it's in His Will that I come down there-I think it's something that YOU want for me, rather than God."

His response was classic. He said "I bet you don't even want to serve the Lord." I told him that I'm honored to serve God, just not to serve the Foundation. He replied, "then fine, burn in Hell." I said, "yeah, like you are gonna be the one to send me there?" He said, "the soul that sinneth shall surely die." We wished each other well, but parted on a less than good note all things considered.

In the months to come, he sent a couple of letters to chastise me about my decision to stay put, and for months to come, I even got all the new tracts and some tapes (including Comrade alamo's appearances on his brother's radio show). But I stayed put. It's a decision I've never regretted.

So anyway, was there a quota for bringing in new members or what?

[saved_21570]

Sceptic,

No, not on bringing in new souls. It's a good thing too. They would all be on a 120 day fast right now! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif ROTF LOL They have lost more members than they have gained since Tony took over.

Tony Alamo did put a quota on number of Tracts that each person passed out. The man actually thinks his literature is inspired and spellbinding!

[brother_d]

To Skeptik -

Wish I'd said that! I paid royally for being so pliant...13 years worth of my life - gone, and for what? Telling me it was really for Jesus doesn't cut it. Jesus didn't get enough of my contribution; the majority went for "administrative costs"....Tonee's ****ing boots and Suzee's nose job.

[brother_d]

Bitter?

Sometimes.

[skeptik]

Oh, I've read his tracts, trust me. I mean, from "Pope's Secrets" to "Joseph Taliaferro's Confession," to even the little tabloid-like screeds that paper many a car in many a parking lot, the man has quite an active imagination.

I remember that in my visits there, the biggest thrill was wandering away from my "handlers" while on a visit, and stumbling on to what appeared to be the Foundation's very own print shop where all the propoganda was being produced, the equivalent of Area 51; outsiders supposedly weren't allowed in there, and the location was something of a closely-guarded secret. As I recall, it was a building next to their church in town. I at first thought it was something related to the main hall next door, but no.

So I walk up to it, peer my head in for a peek, and right behingd me is one of my "handlers," who proceeds to give me a dressing-down for wandering off into areas that don't concern me. But for me, it was worth it, lol.








(Message edited by skeptik on February 11, 2007)

[wilma]

Brother D,
I understand your pain. For me, it was 25 years of my life. We lost many precious years. One of my biggest regrets is that my husband and I suffered the loss of not being able to be the parents to our children that we would have chosen to be (had we not been in the Foundation), or to provide a proper education for them. Many of us Mom's were put into jobs that consumed almost every waking hour. We have all had to grieve many things that we lost.
"Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted." I take hope in that God is a restorer.

One thing that I am extremely grateful for is that when we did leave, my whole family left together.
Susie G

[brother_d]

...and I do take comfort in that. It's nice to know that God does care, and that he's not the monster Tonee has created in his image. Thanks Susie.

[tbone_1972]

I was in Boston, in 1990 and I can tell you it was absolutely insane madness concerning passing out tracts. After a full days work with little or no food to eat on some job where brothers were dropped off at the job site with no money and no sack lunches or nonthing. At the end of the day we'd be sitting on the side of the road like hitch-hike bums waiting endlessly for the van to come and bring us food to eat. It was humiliating, because the other guys who we worked for would try and offer us food because they knew we were starving. Of course we were instructed to refuse, so that we would'nt ruin any open door to witness to their hungry souls. So a couple of the brothers who I thought were full blown BONE-HEADS to begin with. would sit there and try and witness to these guys who were well stocked to the hilt with all kinds of mouth watering foods. They thought we were some kind of nuts to come on a hard days work with no food. We were later herded into the van and given sacks to put tracts into and tie around our waist, because it was, as always, going to be a late night of passing out tracts. We stopped for a quick peanut butter sandwich and soda and off we went into the night beating the bricks until exhaustion set in. I tell you no lie before God, the soles of my tennis shoes were falling off from the walking up and down long bolivards and through dangerous neighborhoods. Don wolf quikly showed off his hand quick moves in folding the track with one hand while the other reached for the windshield wiper of the car to quickly stuff the track there and keep moving at a fast pace because we were going to set another record for passing out tracks tonight. Finally, at the end of the night everyone who passed out tracts in teams were required to give an accurate count of how many tracts were passed out.

[tbone_1972]

In the days following, the madness got only worse. God spared me, because I had A big fat tax return that I had already filed in Boston, because like an idiot I was once again going to donate all my monies to big Tone. One day the phone rang and it was the people from the tax place in boston telling me I had to come in person to pick up my money. I hitched a ride with Bill Lavender under the guise of looking for work in the city, but I would have him take me to the office in which my big fat tax return awaited me. While Bill busied himself with shopping around in another store, I slipped into the tax office and was guided to the back room where $1700.00 was counted out to me. I put the money into an envelope and stuffed it into my pocket, while I fussed over and over in my mind, "Should I stay, or should I go,"" Should I stay or should I go..................I GO MAN, GO-O-O-O-O-O-oooooo. So, when we got back to the house that day, I went directly to the back room and started to pack my dufflebag. no-one would ever know that I had picked up my money. As I slung my duffle bag over my shoulder and headed for the door, I was cautioned by Greg Patterson, not to openly walk down the street because the neighbors woukld be suspicious about our presence there. I turned and said ," I gotta go man, It's just too crazy around here. With that He suddenly realized that I was leaving. He offered a ride,....I refused and headed out to catch a cab to the nearest bus depot. As I write this story, my eyes are almost in tears from the joy I have now of leaving that place at the time that I did. The Lord made a way for me and I took it, and I'm just sooo grateful for the mercy of the Lord because I just wanted to serve the Lord but could not because of the insane madness that was going on in that house of horror in Boston. One day I may elaborate more , but for now, man I just thank God from the bottom of my heart for His deliverance just when I needed it the most. Thank you for letting me release this true story.

[skeptik]

D, I genuinely sympathize, I truly do. Putting down roots in something like that is a hard burden to bear, long after you left. And were there a way that I could wave my hand and make it right for you, to get you some form of redress for your grievances believe me, I'd do whatever I could for you. For now, I can at least hear your story and encouragement. I also suspect that the board here can at least be that first step.

For me, it's not so much that I was audacious as a youth, or posessed of some youthful form of
rebellion or a degree of street smarts and a sense of self, that kept me from moving in (though these did play some part, I suppose). Some of it really has to do with Faith. For me-and some say that it's among my best qualities, others say it's a charcter flaw- I just call it being honest with myself and others, and call it as I see it. I have always tended to believe that if God wanted me to move into the Foundation, wouldn't it just stand to reason that He would have put that conviction into my heart, and I couldn't decline even if I wanted to? Believe me, had God put it in my heart to move in, I would know it, and I couldn't make it there fast enough.

The OC who'd claimed me as his very own "Baby Christian" was not the one who'd first led me to God all those years ago, regardless of what he may to the contrary. I was already born-again when I'd met up with him and his crew, and still trying to find my way. Sure, I'd stumble and fall here and there, but as long as I was at least trying in some way to do right, isn't that what counts in His Eyes? He obviously takes the approach that if I was not "prayed through" by a member of the Foundation, that I probably wasn't really saved at all, and it was imperative to pray me through once again. Actually, he more or less tricked me into it, and from there, the pressure to get me to move into the Foundation got even more intense.

Not only that, but he takes a more active role in making me his "pet project," and looking at the controlling manner in which he conducted himself, it kinda bugs me. There'd be the "requests" that I hand out only the Foundation's tracts and nobody else's, and to refer my friends to the phone numbers on the back of the tracts-all of which I refused. And again, every other conversation would lead to the issue of "serving the Lord in the fullness of his way," which of course translates to "when are you going to move into the Foundation?"

But it all had to do with me keeping an open heart to what God wanted me to do. And since I didn't feel the call, I didn't move in, simple, and i told him as much. Sure, he'd try to pitch me on the "possibility" that I really had been called, but I didn't realize it yet. Well, I told him that when the call from God comes, it would be loud and clear. Since I never got that call, I must assume that such was not what He had in mind.

And for those in the Foundation or about to return to the Foundation, or considering going to move into the Foundation, and you're reading this, my advice to you is this. During your prayer time-I know, "an hour's readin' and an hour's prayin, every day"-pray about where God wants you? And if He does not want you there, you'll know it in no uncertain terms. From there, negotiate your way to freedom. It'll be rough at first, I imagine, but well-worth it.

(Message edited by skeptik on February 11, 2007)

[wilma]

Brother D,
I wanted to add to my above post that part of that loss was that my children grew up without a relationship with their grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins...we never had even a vacation to go visit family. Since we always HAD to be at work and in church services (twice a day and 3 times on Sunday) there was no time to hang out with your kids. Even on holidays you had to be in services...or you were in BIG trouble. We missed all the leisure time with our kids that normal people take for granted. Even the kids that weren't physically abused suffered neglect. But there were good times too....I don't want to convey that we didn't ever have good times.

Other losses...My Grandma and hubby's Mom died while we were away those many years. You can't come back home and still have those relationships...it's gone forever.

Many single brothers that were there for 10, 15, 20+ years lost their opportunity to be married at a young age and raise a family. You can't get that back. It must be grieved.

God definitely is a restorer. These past 10+ years OUT of the Alamo group have been wonderful above all that I could imagine. We are surrounded by loving family. We savor and appreciate our FREEDOM! I think we (former members) appreciate life more than most people!! It's nice being appreciated at your job, getting a paycheck, and being able to spend it! (Hubby loves not having to pull nightwatch!!) We spend as much time as we can with our (now adult) children...boating, holidays with relatives, etc. Life is good!!

So much more I could say, but I've gotta get my zzzz's.
Susie G

[skeptik]

TBone, it's true: God does provide a way for us if we sinerely want it. we just have to keep our eyes open for the opportunities He places in our paths.

[tbone_1972]

<font size="+1">TO SUSIE G.

THANK YOU,......THANK YOU, SOOOOOO MUCH FOR THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF THE SINGLE BROTHERS BEING THEIR ALL THOSE YEARS AND SACRIFICING THEIR CHANCES TO MARRY YOUNG. ALL I CAN SAY IS THANK YOU FOR TOUCHING ON SOMETHING THAT USED TO BE SO VERY GREIVOUS TO ME, BUT THE LORD GAVE ME THE VICTORY OVER IT.

UNTIL I READ YOUR POST, I DID NOT THINK ANYBODY EVER EVEN CONSIDERED THAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, THAT MEANS A LOT TO ME. GOD CONTINUE TO BLESS YOU AND YOUR WONDERFUL FAMILY ALWAYS.
TBONE</font>

[tbone_1972]

<font size="+1">TO SUSIE G.

THANK YOU,......THANK YOU, SOOOOOO MUCH FOR THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF THE SINGLE BROTHERS BEING THEIR ALL THOSE YEARS AND SACRIFICING THEIR CHANCES TO MARRY YOUNG. ALL I CAN SAY IS THANK YOU FOR TOUCHING ON SOMETHING THAT USED TO BE SO VERY GREIVOUS TO ME, BUT THE LORD GAVE ME THE VICTORY OVER IT.

UNTIL I READ YOUR POST, I DID NOT THINK ANYBODY EVER EVEN CONSIDERED THAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, THAT MEANS A LOT TO ME. GOD CONTINUE TO BLESS YOU AND YOUR WONDERFUL FAMILY ALWAYS.
TBONE</font>

[wilma]

Tbone,
I have discussed that with other people too. I think it is something that a lot of people have taken into consideration. Hundreds of young men joined the Alamo group in their late teens and early and mid twenties. They spent the prime of their lives there. They worked extremely physically hard jobs in the fields in Bakersfield, CA and then later, on tree crews around the country. They turned all their hard earned money in to Tony &amp; Sue and got sub-standard room and board in return. No acknowledgement of their sacrifice. Very little chance of getting married since the brothers outnumbered the sisters at least 5 to 1 most of the time. (Sisters spent plenty of time in those fields too.)
Even if you did get married you spent a good deal of time away (many months at a time) on tree crews away from your wife and children. You made it in for major holidays and then spent hours of your few nights home on night watch. How many people got married at Sunday service and then got loaded up for Bakersfield the same night they got married? I know I worked night crew at the restaurant in Alma, AR the same day I got married...so much for a honeymoon LOL! Reminds me..a couple weeks after I got married, Susan Alamo put my husband on day crew at the Kerr McGee gas station (I worked night crew at the Alamo Restaurant), so that for the next six months my husband and I rarely even saw each other...even though we shared the same little bungalow. She could be outright cruel. She did this to other people too. What about taking people's kids away from them? Susie took Carlos and Miguel away from Maurillia and put them with other families. She put Darren with the Garris'. She took Erik away from Debbie for months when he was a baby and gave him to Merryanne to take care of. She gave Benji to Elaine &amp; John (who loved him dearly) and then took him away and gave him to Orlando's. NO ONE had any say in the matter. Tony and Sue did whatever they wanted to do..To have said anything would have been looked upon as like unto questioning God Almighty. It just wasn't done.

They told you where to live, where to work, in many cases who to marry, how many children to have. In the early 80's before Susie died if you got pregnant with more than one child she made sure you knew what scum you were. Funny, that now Tony doesn't permit the followers to use birth control...gotta keep having those baby girls so he'll have more to fondle.
more later,
SG

[wilma]

We all have our own personal and unique experiences of living our lives at the Alamo Foundation. The single brothers had their unique experiences. The married people had theirs. The single mothers had theirs...I can still hear Susan Alamo's "YOU Mother's" rebukes back in the Saugus days, and I was so glad I wasn't a mother then. The people who had trust funds or some kind of steady income have their own unique experiences too. They were the "favored ones" for sure.

From my perspective, looking back, it was ALWAYS a CULT. That doesn't mean that God's word wasn't preached or that we didn't get saved or that God didn't honor our sincerity and dedication. It's just that the CONTROL AND MANIPULATION and Tony and Sue having an AGENDA and USING us was going on from the git. When I moved in in early 1971 it was a rule that you couldn't talk to other baby Christians (as we were called) for 3 months...that's cultish. We weren't allowed to have conversations with the opposite sex...that's cultish. We were encouraged to turn in all our money and/or possesions. If people had a car they signed it over to the Foundation usually. You were assigned an older Christian, where to live,an basically told what to do 24/7. For minor offenses like talking outside the church or leaving one of your possessions out "slothful" you were put in "the group" (a punishment, where you were assigned to extra chores, peeling, etc and had a group leader breathing down your neck every waking hour). Do I smell a cult????

You were pumped with the FEAR OF THE LORD and told if you left that you could never make it as a Christian on the outside..you would end up on drugs, dead, in prison, and inevitably Hell.

If you were married before you came and your spouse didn't want to "get saved" and move in to the Foundation, than you were told you must leave them. (Totally unscriptual) Examples...Merryanne, Dee Saniger, Bobbi Caverrelli-Pini and more....

I know others will differ with me...and we are all entitled to our own opinion. From my perspective it didn't become a cult after Susie died....it already was one.
Susie G

[anchored]

It amazes me now in retrospect how that we didn't recognize the insanity of so many of the things that happened back then when there were so many, many red flags. Talk about all zeal and not much wisdom, that was us. We loved the Lord Jesus Christ so much (and still do), but we fell prey to charlatans who, when they saw the opportunity, went out to fleece the flock for their own gain and take the place of God in every aspect of our lives. They got so manipulative over the years, and as time went on, it got worse and worse. Then the Lord took Susie out, soon after the Lord shut the place down and then all that was left was Tony Alamo unleashed.

Taking the gospel to the world is one thing (and, as Christians, that is our commission on this earth to do) but God made us all free moral agents and not meant to be controlled by anyone other than HIM. But the way Tony and Susan Alamo called all the shots and no one else had any say in the matter and it was as though they were God Almighty handing out the judgements, making all the decisions in our lives and, as you SG said, many times it was outright cruel. So many, many times they were actually cruel to the Body of Christ.

When I attend church now, I see such a difference in the pastoral duties. The pastor encourages everyone to be dedicated and gives plenty of opportunities for reaching the lost with the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, but they do not control, they serve. And they are examples to the flock, not Lords over them. Everyone is encouraged and wants to win souls and help all they can because they not only see the example but also they know the pastor really loves them and cares about them (the Body of Christ) and show it in their actions not just words, so the congregation is motivated, not through fear tactics and condemnation, but through love and encouragement. That is scriptural too, i.e., God's goodness and forbearance and longsuffering is what leads people to repentance, in or out of the Body of Christ.

[brother_d]

Susie G ---

A mighty AMEN!!!! to all that you've said. You might want to go on about the "confessions" as well as an example of extreme cruelty. Coaxing people's darkest fears and secrets out of them in confidence and then flinging them back in their faces in front of the entire congregation. It doesn't get any crueler than that.

[tbone_1972]

AMEN SUE,

I totally agree with you. We were so young and unsuspecting, we did'nt want to believe that we too were in a cultish style compound. We always looked at other cults like The Children of God, or the Moonies, or the Hare-Chistners and so on.

The main thing was that I knew many of us were really saved and just wanted to serve the Lord, and that Christian zeal was heavily exploited by Tony and Sue early on.They made everybody a spy forthem so that any infraction whatsoever was blown up as a major offense that was to be punishable by separation from everybody, doing extra kitchen duties, and crying out for God to save your poor soul again.

I remember Tony sending a message through some of the older brothers that some brothers were never meant to be married, but were set aside to be eunuchs. That made a lot of brothers leave the foundation. Myself and other brothers used to discuss these things all the time.

[tbone_1972]

AMEN SUE,

I totally agree with you. We were so young and unsuspecting, we did'nt want to believe that we too were in a cultish style compound. We always looked at other cults like The Children of God, or the Moonies, or the Hare-Chistners and so on.

The main thing was that I knew many of us were really saved and just wanted to serve the Lord, and that Christian zeal was heavily exploited by Tony and Sue early on.They made everybody a spy forthem so that any infraction whatsoever was blown up as a major offense that was to be punishable by separation from everybody, doing extra kitchen duties, and crying out for God to save your poor soul again.

I remember Tony sending a message through some of the older brothers that some brothers were never meant to be married, but were set aside to be eunuchs. That made a lot of brothers leave the foundation. Myself and other brothers used to discuss these things all the time.

[anchored]

Hey, ya know, I've said this before but will say it again.

I'd do it all over again because I did it unto the Lord and those rewards and mercy are stored up as long as I stay with HIM. I learned a lot and met some precious eternal friends. I inherited eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven to spend it in. Plus life more abundantly on this side and any tribulation I have to go through on this side is not to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed. Glory to God!!!

What more could one ask for? Not a bad deal, eh?

[heynow]

T-Bone, When was that eunuch Tony quote? I don't remember hearing it. Maybe it was after Tony and I had our "disagreement" LOL. What brothers left?

[heynow]

T-Bone, When was that eunuch Tony quote? I don't remember hearing it. Maybe it was after Tony and I had our "disagreement" LOL. What brothers left?

[tbone_1972]

Danny Shapiro was one of the brothers that i heard first mention of it from and that was in the mid 70's still. Chas williams, John Hart,Art Monroe, and a few of the other brothers i know used to discuss it amongst ourselves.I also heard it from at least two or three other older brothers who I wont mention. That was some of the talk that went on at the big house in saugus.Also, it was the same time that tony mentioned that black brothers would have all kinds of problems in the world if they married outside of their race. He was reported to have said that people would not recieve them in a ministry. Now that was a known quote from big tone, I never forgot that. I stand by it with my life. Black sisters were a rarity at that time and continued to be so it came up in discussion because some of the black brothers were asking about the white sisters, to be able to marry them. And of course, needless to say when I found out that Tony had taken Lydia to wife, I said oh well,......that's why the comment about some brothers called to be eunuchs. I have a very good memory and would not make these things up for a joke. I fear God.

[tbone_1972]

Danny Shapiro was one of the brothers that i heard first mention of it from and that was in the mid 70's still. Chas williams, John Hart,Art Monroe, and a few of the other brothers i know used to discuss it amongst ourselves.I also heard it from at least two or three other older brothers who I wont mention. That was some of the talk that went on at the big house in saugus.Also, it was the same time that tony mentioned that black brothers would have all kinds of problems in the world if they married outside of their race. He was reported to have said that people would not recieve them in a ministry. Now that was a known quote from big tone, I never forgot that. I stand by it with my life. Black sisters were a rarity at that time and continued to be so it came up in discussion because some of the black brothers were asking about the white sisters, to be able to marry them. And of course, needless to say when I found out that Tony had taken Lydia to wife, I said oh well,......that's why the comment about some brothers called to be eunuchs. I have a very good memory and would not make these things up for a joke. I fear God.

[heynow]

Thanks for the info. Do you remember Henry Moses? He was the only black brother (that I remember) at the foundation with a white wife.
The eunuch deal must have been said to keep the brothers in the place. Looks like it backfired. This type of stuff is always preached by married folks. Any church anywhere you can hear married preachers talking about the wonderful spiritual benefits of being single. I always marvel at these hypocritical speakers. The obvious question "If it is so good why are you married?" LOL. Never hear a single pastor (is there such a thing?) talk about the spiritual benefits of being single now do you? Gotta love it.

[jackrussell]

Good point, heynow. Putting ordinances out there that are not called for, they do. Course a scripture will be twisted or taken out of context for justification. How Tony ranted so against the catholics and their 'forbidding to marry' for the priests, and that was right but he was forbidding the same thing about the time the world didn't come to an end after about 5 years(mid 70's). What a pompous <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>!

[modesto]

Bit of a blast from the past I guess but do you all remember what great fans of George Wallace Tony and Sue were(especially Sue)?They used to say "the dirty rotten pinko commies, the Illuminati,the Tri Lateral Commission,Rockefellars,Richard Nixon" to name a few,were smearing his good name in order to bring fourth their diabolical one world government which he(Wallace) was, according to them,trying to stop.

I remember Syl and some of the other brothers and sisters wincing when they heard them say that and doing their best not to show it(I was too).Meanwhile, I think I recall we were supposed to regard Dr. King,Ralph Abernathy and others as weasels.Yet another of their commandments I couldn't keep.