Let this be a lesson to you visitors

[harold_t]

deleted because it was a double post

[modesto]

This is kind of a strange twist in the posts,the post by harold-t above, which was deleted,can now be found in "Wow,let this be a lesson to you visitors".In essence, he said he's glad he accidentlly found FACTnet while web surfing in search of info on Tony Alamo and was mistreated by most of the folks who post in here,and warns others who may stumble in that they ought to watch out.(fair enough Harold-t?)

[mixter]

My Lord and my GOD have mercy on my soul a sinner, I believe that JESUS CHRIST is the son

of the living GOD, I believe that he died upon the cross and shed his innocent Blood for

the forgiveness of all my sins, I believe that you GOD raised JESUS CHRIST from the dead by

the power of the HOLY GHOST. Come into my heart Lord JESUS CHRIST wash away all my sins in

the precious Blood that you shed for me, therefore I know that you have heard me and I know

that you have answered me and I know that I am saved, and I thank you Lord JESUS CHRIST for

saving my soul, and I raise up my hands to you Lord and GOD and thank you more than I can

say, I thank you so much for saving my soul. I Thank you GOD, and I thank you JESUS CHRIST,

and I thank you HOLY GHOST.

LES

[modesto]

I'm sure all us old timers from the original Christian Foundation recognize the above prayer as the "Sinner's Prayer" we always used to pray people through with.I've always thought it was a beautiful prayer and have no quarrel at all with its' wording.Interestingly,though, I hear Tony Alamo now says it is bad to say Holy"Ghost",rather, he says one ought to say Holy "Spirit" instead.I heard Tony doesn't insist on the KJV Bible any more and from his reading of other translations has concluded that the word used in the KJV "Ghost" is very bad.

I remember how vehemently even viciously we used to attack(only verbally of course) any person who advocated the use of any version other than the KJV.This was in part because Susan use to say God himself told her it was the only acceptable version and that to use any other was a trick of the Devil to stumble souls.I also heard both Tony and Susan say that the Mormon practice of polygamy or the modern practice of it by anyone was evil.Several times yesterday, the question was asked regarding polygamy,if God changes His mind and isn't the same yesterday, today and forever.It would seem from the evidence I'm describing that Alamo Ministries doctrine is that He does and isn't always the same,either that or they must admitt a major mistake made in the past regarding doctrine and that God didn't actually tell Susan those things after all.What a can of worms that would be!

Tony often gives instructions to people to do or not do all kinds of things and often they goe horribly wrong. When that happens he usually says "I never said that",I don't think even the curent members would disagree with that.To be fair, maybe I ought to include that as a possibility to explain what I mentioned above.

[wilma]

Modesto,
I can't tell you how many times I heard Tony tell someone to do something, it even being on tape, and being transcribed and then later Tony saying "I NEVER said that!" Numerous times!!!
Since we really believed he was a chosen vessel of God we continually made excuses for Tony and justified him, convincing ourselves that he must have forgotten. I mean, we didn't believe Tony would INTENTIONALLY LIE. Sometimes the followers would look at each other and exchange knowing glances of "not again!".
susieg

[modesto]

Hi Susie G ,

Way back when I first left the Foundation I wrote T&S a letter telling them some of my reasons for leaving.One thing I specifically mentioned was the huge amount of emotional/spiritual energy I had to use up constantly fighting to excuse and justify to my own mind and other people Tony and Sue's conduct and speech.I also told them how glad I was not to have that burden any longer.

John

[jackrussell]

Johnny M,

I wonder why 'The Alamo Christian minstrels' didn't post your letter in that fine reportoire of letters from all the far reaches of the $5buckers,lol. And, by the way, yeah it was Jan and Dean, you California residents remember everything! I must be gettin' old.

And as an aside, provability is always subjective. Concerning the insurmountable testimony of the Tony atrocities 'documented' in the courts and by so so so so so sooooo many on this forum and in the bosom of the Lord Jesus Christ, you got to be brain dead, blind, deaf, dense, dunce and academy nominees for the 'Most Deceived' to think Tony Alamo sincerely gives a rats' <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> about the salvation of souls. But then again,come to think of it, maybe that is what he would give for it, a rats',that is.

Who here has met people that can look you straight in the eye and tell you the holocaust never happened, or that Rodney King was not beat so bad in those video tapes as they must have been spliced and diced. I guess we shall suppose all those unfortunates in the death camps, I mean concentration camps, or rather work camps, what I meant to say is 'dormitories' were just skulking about trying to lose pounds for Jenny Craig. Or maybe all it was, was a motion picture never to be released starring Boris Karloff.

Believe what you will, but remember this is not Ripleys' it is the 'real deal' and innocent lives are at stake, and if anyone supports or enables such atrocity, he/she too, are holding the smoking gun, to become legally complicit just like the getaway driver. To a certain extent, we all been there done that, that is, all the pleading the blood against the devil, when all along the devil was Tony.

So are not so many ex members enlightened, now that they no longer are in that intensely deep bondage of justyfying and denying so many of the Tony sins, lies and debauchery?

And all these character attacks against people honestly trying to fend off more unwitting victims falling into the snare of that fowler Tony, knowing not that it is for their life, as it so aptly says in Proverbs.

So what if some here have backslid, there can still be redemption, it is between they and God. But no one here any where is making such claim to 'World Pastor' or the 'two anointed hot waxes' or any other great and pompous self agrandizations to acquire lots of other peoples blood. Maybe Tony just misunderstood, 'Bringing in the sheaves, not sheets!'

[modesto]

As always,great to hear from you Jack,I'm glad you aren't mad at me about the Jan and Dean wisecrack, I just couldn't help myself then worried after I'd already posted it.

Take Care,

John

[hbannana]

good point jackrussel!

We are all backslidden here. But I guess it's no longer just between us and God since you posted it in a public forum. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif

[jackrussell]

Johnny M,

No need to get overly apologetic, but I do understand though that there are some here that seem more sensitive to being offended, I not being one of them, unless something is said about my mother, you know what I mean.

And personally I find humor cathartic, which usually had to be kept out of sight, out of mind whilst on tour at the foundation, like in the outback or at Saugus 19, so as not to catch a grip on that 'silly spirit.' Which was not too hard to do as most everyone was way too tired to laugh all that much.

[wilma]

okay, Harold_t / tommy richards, is posing as Hannah.

Everyone notices the difference between hbannana and hbananna.

Jack wasn't saying everyone here is backslidden. But if someone posting here were backslidden what might that be attributed to, pray tell??? maybe years of spiritual abuse, witnessing lies and hypocrisy from someone like Tony and sue who tricked and conned and took advantage of their sincerity in serving the Lord. Someone like tony who became so perverted in his lusts that he took their young 8,9,10,11, 12 and up year old daughters and raped them. Yes, I can see why someone would stray from even the hint of Christianity because of that. Thankfully, most people are strong in their faith is spite of all the insanity they experienced in the Alamo group.

tommy, one question, maybe you can answer. Why would these girls Tami, Cindi Jo, Katrina, Nikki, Jody (who have all documented their own personal experience of sexual and emotional abuse from tony alamo) open themselves up on a public forum with such embarrassing and shameful details. Why? Why? Why? Why would they open themselves up for such ridicule by people like yourself? Being called liars, false accusers,etc. Please consider this.

The answer is that they are concerned for the victims that tony continues to perpetrate these crimes against.

[jackrussell]

Hannah,

I think its ok. Tired of coverups. And I am speaking for yours truly and anyone else, not all, and albeit that in the past tense about the 'B' word. Is that off base? If so, forgive me please, I can lay off of that.

[prayerful_times]

wilma, I thought you said the_truth was tommy richards. this seems to be a false claim you are making. any way you can verify it? or is this just a guess you are making. answer the question please. otherwise I'm going to think you just guess and present your guess as if it's a fact which can greatly damage your credibility.

[jackrussell]

Pt, it does not matter what name you are, we can tell by your speech where you are coming from, so enough of the musical chairs already. Besides, your leader bernie lazar hoffman alamo cochran, etc, etc., changes names and women like socks. Did I leave anything out? 'Cept maybe the sheets.

[hbannana]

jackrussel,

be careful. making claims like that can bring a credibility problem on those here trying to prove false allegations with more lies.

[wilma]

aaahhhhhh, tommmy, how come you took down the pictures of you and your wife on all your myspace pages that I posted earlier today? Everyone wants to see a pic of the man who is defending the rapist, pedohphile, polygamist, thief, con-artist tony alamo. oh well, i'm sure lots of people have already seen them.

I hope i didn't hurt your feelings by sharing your pages.
wilma

[hbannana]

wilma, but I noticed your pics are still up. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif

[jackrussell]

The far reaching effects of Tony Alamo and his damnable heresy.

Some who left the foundation in the early days wanted very much to still remain in Tonys' good graces so that their soul could be saved. So they became visitors, and/or gave some financial and dogmatic support until the time that they could find their way back.

There were great examples given of the intense fear that was leveled at all for falling off the wagon. As eveyone believed that out of Tonys' mouth was the gospel truth in those early days, such condemnation did galvanize. A particlar incident to note that I witnessed was that of John Hartshorn. John was one of the main pickup drivers. After less than a year inside the foundation John decided one day to pull a Forest Gump and just keep on driving, and when he got to the county line just kept on going. Don't know about the particulars of about what happened to the truck, but John disappeared and Tony said he stole the truck. Bad idea, maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but sometime later John called to talk to Tony, to ask his forgiveness and could he come back. I was there! Tony said no, that there is no repentance for the devil seeing that John took the truck. And that was that. I gotta tell ya it sure put a shiver thru me and anyone else that heard the conversation as we all put a tremendous amount of weight on everything Tony said, until we found out differently, of course in Tonys' actions, that speak so much louder than words. But for some, it still took years even after leaving for the reverberations of the finality of that kind of fear to be replaced with rational thought.

Tony used to condemn the catholic priests and the confessionals stating that no one can forgive sins but God, true. But Tony put a strange twist wherein he sat in the place of God to 'unforgive' sin. And this type of venue became more comonplace as time rolled on. If that isn't antichrist throne replacement than I don't know what is.

Everyone will have their day in court, and hope is not to be weighed in the balance and found wanting, Tony was only too ready and willing to call it a day for anyone with a big thumbs down. Tony, the song is 'Onward Christian soldiers,' not, downward Christian soldiers.

[heynow]

Here is my take on John Hartshorn. Yes, he just took off with the truck and went to San Francisco. Later he decided he better head back to LA. This what I heard.
This part I saw. Days later John H. shows up at 13136 with a really wild look. A brother (can't remember who might have been medic) talked to him and they walked over to the pulpit area knelt and prayed together. From what I remember John H. stood up and seemed relieved. John H. leaves.
Back to what I heard. Tony was asked if John H. can move back in. Tony's response, "Can the devil repent?"
Back to what I saw. John H. seemed to be barred from the church but, not long after that he got married and his wife showed up at 13136. Her name was Julie Hartshorn. Julie seemed to like the foundation and came to services often (without John of course). I remember a brother telling me that when Julie would get home John would read Bible with her and exort her. Dosen't really sound like the devil to me.

[heynow]

Wilma, You gotta be kidding me! A man posing as a woman?

[prayerful_times]

heynow, come on! you don't know who's doing what. As a man or woman of God that you supposedly are you should stay far away from siding in with people who have no proof whatsoever of their allegations.

Have wilma prove her case. let's see the evidence. but she wont have any. because just like every single other accusation she makes on this board has no evidence. thats why this forum is such a joke and no-one takes it seriously.

except for people with your mentality. Tony would be locked up if he were doing all these things. But he's not on the lam. he's on the radio nearly every day.

Anyway, don't you realize that you are team mates with homosexuals, weirdos, judas iscariots, war mongers, heretics and the list keeps going on and on.

[heynow]

Prayful_times, I think you made a good point when you said, "Tony would be locked up if he were doing all these things" Well, he has been locked up before. I agree with you; Tony should be locked up.

[prayerful_times]

oh? What was he locked up for? for the things that he is accused of on this message board? Well, why did it take you so long to say so?

Actually he was put in a federal penitentary for tax evasion. Nothing to do with any of these accusations.

You must be one of those wolves in sheeps clothing.

[heynow]

Hey There Prayful_Times, You seem to know a lot about Tony Alamo. Have you met Tony Alamo?

[modesto]

Al Capone went to the federal prison system for income tax evasion.His tricky crooked lawyers and powerful criminal organization kept him from being convicted for his many other crimes for years till the feds got him for taxes.Tony's the same way.

[jackrussell]

So true Johnny M. There is plenty of court testimony were Tony took the 5th about the child abuse, the lawmen knew he was playing around with little girls, but since they didn't catch him in the act....They slammed him with the max on the tax deal just like they did Al Capone. Tax law was almost invented for people just like Al and Tony. If taxes was all it was about Tony could have walked with restitution/probation, many people do. But ole Ton did have a little bit of a prior rapsheet, and law enforcement had his number as a lawbreaker/troublemaker from way back.

I marvel at the audacity Of Tony courting the foundation members' children in 1992-1994 just prior to his sentencing. Its seems like his timing was like out of spite. Then he continued the perverseness during his incarceration. Again, most certainly spite for his being locked up. Does he ever show remorse? Or is he above that, or should I say below that.

[raining]

Actually the polygamy, Tony having sex with under-age girls, and the child abuse was brought up at tony's tax evasion case! The federal prosector mentioned he might even ask for DNA from Lydia and her son, Tabor ( Tabor was fathered by Tony Alamo)

Since this was an IRS case tony was convicted of Tax evasion. The feds went for the sure thing, just like they did with Al Capone!

Read the court transcripts - it's all there.

Oh by the way when Tony Alamo was asked if he had multiple wives he did not answer "NO" -

Tony Alamo's answer was - "he pled the 5th admendment!"

Whatever your name is - you are a child abusing,polygamy practicing, pedophile, false profit defender!

How dare you come on here and attack people who have suffered at the hands of Tony Alamo!

Go back to the foundation where you belong! What's the matter big tony almighty won't let you live in the foundation, so you are trying to get brownie points by defending Tony Alamo.

Let Tony Alamo come on here and defend himself! He is very aware of this message board. So if he is so big and brave - let him come on here and sign his name.

I can tell you Tony Alamo, that big mouth coward, high heel wearing midget doesn't have the courage to face his accusers.

[raining]

Hey Tony
All the years I lived inside the Alamo foundation I can't count how many times you acted like a big brave man by saying "X marks the spot". We were fooled by your flapping lips- bragging about how brave you were.

However your true colors came out, and we found you were nothing more than a frightened little cowardly girl! Your actions prove you are a yellow belly coward because you, Tony Alamo, didn't ever face the felony child abuse charges. You hid out in Florida using Harvey Crochran's name, that is until the day the FBI captured you! Hauling you back in chains and shackles to face a jury of your peers.

[wild_dream]

prayerful times, the fact is that most of the people on this board have more rightousness than you do. In Mathew 5;20 Jesus said, "For I say unto you, That except your rightousness shall exceed the rightousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Repent or perish.

[heynow]

What happened to prayful-times and Harold? What have you guys been up to? Let us know what has happened. Especially that notice on alamoministrieswatch. Did you guys have anything to do with it?