Are you angry

[open_mind]

i still feel very angry and bitter inside,at tony and,i must admit,somewhat at God.does anyone share those feelings?

[mixter1]

Had that feeling. God we unconsciously associated with Tony. I got over that. But I sure had that real bad, bitter, feeling. That's why we are
here at this forum, to get well. And have a better relationship with God. Hope that makes sense.

Mix

[smitty]

Part of my recovery was realizing that I had myself to blame, not Tony or Sue and certainly not God, for staying in that place. Yeah, I got fooled into joining, but I should not have given up my freedom so easily, Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

[heynow]

Excellent Smitty, Can't blame Tony or Sue.

[smitty]

Please don't get me wrong. I am angry at what Tony has done to those girls. I'm angry at what Tony continues to do to others. I'm angry at the aparent lack of concern on the part of our law enforcement.I just realize that Tony and Sue couldn't have had authority over me unless I gave it to them

[wilma]

Heynow, I respectfully disagree.

My opinion is that we can certainly BLAME Tony and Sue for being manipulating con-artists that took advantage of young, searching, naive teenagers. They took Full advantage of our sincerity towards the Lord. They controlled us through preaching FEAR and Hellfire and made us afraid to leave their organization. Our part of the blame, in my opinion, is that we were naive and believed their gospel rantings...but how could we have known different since they controlled everything to do with our environment...who we spoke to, what we ate, our finances, cut us off from family and friends, kept us sleep deprived etc. They controlled what we read, made sure we only heard their side of the story when truthful accusations were made...the list goes on and has been repeated here on Factnet many times. Tony and "Soo" twisted the scriptures to keep us in submission to them.

Each of us had an "ah-hah" moment when we finally knew it was time to leave...for some this came sooner than others.

And I agree with Smitty. I'm angry at what Tony continues to do to others. I'm angry at the apparent lack of concern on the part of our law enforcement to arrest and prosecute him for the brutal crimes he has committed against children.

[heynow]

Wilma, You are not disagreeing with me. The original statemant was made by Smitty. In effect you are disagreeing with the Smitty.

[jackrussell]

I really agree with Wilma, The wonderful born again experience convinced us then in our youth, that we were really on the stairway to heaven, only we fell down the steps almost immediately into the Tony And Sue cloud.

Tony and Sue knew full well what that blessing of the born again experience felt like, and they decided to use it and us to their own glory....

my 2 cents

[smitty]

Hello Heynow. Actualy I don't think any of us have disagreed on this one. I was just afraid you may have misunderstood my earlier post as absolving Tony or Sue of blame. Absolutly not!! I guess that this topic is probably better suited to a longer discussion.I don't want to let a misunderstanding get in the way of the focus of this board, namely Tony Alamo.

[floridian]

When I came to the church,many many years ago,I was fortunate enough to find out that I was on my way to hell,and that there was there Brothers and sisters who have laid there life down for the winning of souls,most of the brothers and sisters had one concern in their hearts,and that was,helping to get me into heaven,I got down on my knees right there and said My Lord and My God,I did not say my tony and my susan,I was taught the bible according to the spirit of God,in the reading groups,the services,the witnessing trips the daily chores,we would ask the Lord to come down and be with us,and it is sad that some people do not remember that the Lord did hear our cry and came down and dwelt amongest us,sure the name was tony and susan,but that did not change the reason that I stayed and that many others stayed and that was to lay down our lives for the Lord as so many others that have before me.

[open_mind]

people there lay down there lives for tony,not for the Lord,but even though they work there butts off they dont get a dime,or even a compliment.

[heynow]

Smitty, I believe the way you put it was excellent:

"Part of my recovery was realizing that I had myself to blame, not Tony or Sue and certainly not God, for staying in that place. Yeah, I got fooled into joining, but I should not have given up my freedom so easily, Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."

The emphasis is "Recovery". Everyone has a choice of recovery or anger. Obviously you have chosen recovery.

[smitty]

Thank You for the kind words,Heynow.I'm glad you see it the same way as I did.

[anchored]

I am not wanting to get into a back and forth bickering on this subject but do just want to say that I think most everyone has either stated, or it's obvious from their posts, that their anger has been toward Tony Alamo's wickedness, both past and present, which just gets progressively worse as time goes on.

I don't think it's as simple as a choice between "recovery or anger" or choosing one over the other. Letting one's anger out is all PART AND PARCEL of the recovery process. It is more healthy than repressing it and leaving the issues of the past inside to smolder. And it's getting things out in the open for discussion with others. That's also healthy. Seeing others experiencing the same frustrations and anger that they do and how they are dealing with the past spiritual and physical abuses that came from those two con-artists, that took full advantage of our sincerity toward the Lord, is part of the healing process and being able to move on.

God is angry with the wicked every day. He made us with that emotion also. Yeah, it's easy to look back now and say we were to blame and, yes, I suppose we were in our innocent youthful naive way, partly to blame. But if we are going to be completely objective about this, we have to recall what our mindset was in those days and how very determined and convinced we were that that's where God wanted us for a while. No one could tell us any different then, remember? There is something more to it than just simply saying we were to blame. There are a whole set of circumstances that made us so determined. I say live and learn from the past and take those benefits forward for an even more productive life for the Lord and life more abundantly here on this side. It made us a whole lot wiser. If letting anger out is one of the steps along the way to recovery, I think it's healthy and spiritually cleansing.

My 2 cents

[jackrussell]

Good summary Mac. Yes, and exmembers have regained their freedom. The what ifs of resentment about the abuse and wasted years are now behind, and too much conjecture can be moot. There is a reason for everything, even the absurd and unreasonable. That which did not kill just makes stronger. So now it is imperative that the strength be used to warn those that are still afraid of Tony Alamo and his ilk. No FEAR(of man).

This forum is dedicated to demonstrate the subtilty (the serpent is more subtle than any beast in the field) and insidious means by which Tony Alamo and those of his ilk have attempted to use God for their own ulterior motives of self. A gradual and evolving process of deceit started back in the early days by the self anointed leaders, that the followers erronously, but in all good intent and purpose believed to be absolutely valid. Now it is so obvious, back in the early days, was more of a best keep secret away from most. Tony Alamo is an antichrist. Fooled the very elect, but only for awhile.


Websters unabridged; insidious- insidere, to sit in. Awaiting a chance to entrap. Ambush. Having a gradual and cumulative effect. Developing so gradually as to be well established before becoming apparent( as in cancerous disease). Subtily seductive at first.

[wilma]

It is not bickering to discuss and air different viewpoints even if we disagree with one another somewhat. It is healthy and informative as long as we do it respectfully.

Anchored, wise words spoken above! I agree that "anger" is a part of the recovery process. And often before "anger" is "denial". It seems to me that a lot of people coming out of the TSACF get stuck in denial for a long time. (that isn't surprising when you remember that we had to suppress our emotions to survive there). Once people start coming to terms with what happened to them at the TSACF a normal response is "anger" when you realize you were "had".

Grief is another emotion most of us deal with as part of the recovery process. Grief for the lost years, lost opportunities, etc. Another is "Guilt" for what we swallowed and allowed.

Once I was set free from the TSACF lies I then felt shame for having stayed there for so long.
For me, understanding how "thought reform" works and how T & S manipulated us helped me to understand how anyone, given the right set off circumstances, can become a victim of the cults. This, in turn, freed me from the shame and guilt.

One thing that I struggle with is wanting ALL former members to fully recover as quickly as possible. You can give people information but THEY have to be willing to listen (take Floridian for example) and take it to heart. People will recover at their own pace (not ours) and we have to be willing to pray for them and wait it out.
My 2 cents

[smitty]

Amen to that..

[anchored]

Wilma, You have made some very great points. Thank you.

I can say I have prayed for people every day. Yes, you are so right, along the way we do have to be patient. But I think we can, in all fairness, say we have been pretty patient with those that have come on factnet to bring their own agenda, which does not conform to the overall majority here, specifically, to expose, report and warn others of atrocities of Tony Alamo and his horrendous acts of evil.

When it becomes obvious that some (take floridian for example) who has an entirely different agenda from those posting here and who tries to dominate and control the board with distractions and accusations and confusion, in addition to judmental preaching against the posters here while remaining INCOGNITO, then I think it's time to get tough. I take it as an invasion of the enemy to keep those here who are sincerely trying to come to grips with the past and, at the same time, deal with their grief, anger and guilt and come to a point of healing and recovery. I think we persevered long and were willing to listen and still do pray for them.

I, personally, am not interested in hearing someone constantly ranting and preaching and judging and, especially, someone who is in the shadows. Personally, I'm NOT letting anyone preach to me unless I know who they are. Even then the preaching has to be with a demeanor of heartfelt caring, sharing and restoring, AND not of a CONDESCENDING and SELF-RIGHTEOUS nature.

My 2 cents.

P.S. That's all I can afford, I only make $5 a wk.-lol. Sheesh, how refreshing a little levity.

Sorry folks, but just couldn't leave that "n" out of condescending. It's just a thing with me with spelling and grammar.

(Message edited by anchored on September 04, 2007)

[wilma]

Anchored, I do agree with you. Floridian is just a bit over the top, ranting and twisting scriptures, trying to change the purpose of Factnet, which is to expose evil and destructive cults and cult leaders. He cowardly remains anonymous all the while evading honest questions.

He is a heretic that should be rejected from this forum (we can pray that someday God will be able to get through his hard head).

This forum has been a wonderful exchange of ideas, information about TA to warn others of his evils, and a place of healing for many.

God is good!
SG

[anchored]

Amen Wilma. Again, thanks, as well, for your input. It is very informative and uplifting and encouraging.

Encourage one another in the Lord. I know that is paraphrasing but there's a similar scripture to back that.

[mixter1]

Morning Mac, SG, Smitty, Russ

Just woke up. I've tried my best from another angle and approach. Now, ISP and screen-name blocks. I can'tjustify wasting our file memory on people who really don't care. They must get their mind out of the cloud and help us expose the perv. who is an Antichrist. Otherwise that's it. If people insist on ignoring the Spirit and cannot understand the importance of this site and what we do. Majority rule.
I will post the computer code if you want.
-Mix

[heynow]

Wilma and Anchored, I am not sure why you brought up floridian. He is not on this thread. However there is a thread titled FLORIDIAN and you can talk about him and to him there. Let's keep this thread "floridian free" so to speak LOL. Also, Smitty had some excellent advice on how to get past "anger mode."

[anchored]

Sheesh heynow,
There you go again telling people where to post. What are you self-appointed thread monitor? You respond to whoever you thought made the most valid points and I will do the same. Will let Wilma speak for herself. Floridian has a post on this thread, what are you gonna do tell him to get off this thread and post on his own thread?? Go get your own forum, maybe you can be the big kahoona there.

[modesto]

OK.STOP!!!!!

I've appointed myself to stop the arguements!!!

If you don't stop you will really be in trouble!!!!!

[heynow]

Anchored, Watch out for that anger. Try to stay on topic. Floridian is a different thread.

[anchored]

Modesto, you're being facetious, right?

Heynow addressed ME. I always respond when someone asks me something. There's probably a referee job open somewhere-lol.

[anchored]

heynow, watch out for those accusations. You're the only one complaining.

[floridian]

There is times when I am angry with myself,for not being more thankful to God.

[razzor9]

Modesto...you crack me up...I can even hear the tone of your voice....luv your sense of humor

[exmember10]

Floridian,
Why are you smoke screening the purpose of this forum?

[modesto]

Flo,

Me too bro.

[razzor9]

Lane Petri, where is she ?

[heynow]

Anchored, I am not complaining just pointing you in the right direction. That's what brothers are for. Lane Petri?? I think she left the foundation to finish her degree.

[anchored]

Heynow, are you brain dead? You're trying to point me in the direction?? And, pray tell, who made you the authority? Nice try.

Give it up heynow! I'll post where ever and whenever I feel the Lord's leading.

Are you a Tony supporter? Deducing from you posts today, I'm beginning to wonder.

Anyway, don't be pointing me in any direction heynow. I post where I want. Learn to live with it!

[no_stoppin_me]

Wasn't she one of the ones who's parents came to the foundation & "kidnapped"?

More parents should have done that!

[modesto]

g,

NO, I meant it.

[razzor9]

Lane Petri was the one that was rescued on a hot Sunday afternoon at the 3pm service in Saugus, CA.

Yep no stoppin me, too bad we didnt get resuced too !

That one incident had a big impact on people in the cult. It was used by T & S greatly, they said that we were Gods Army and that Satan was mad, and we were to rejoice at that.

[anchored]

Oh ok, J. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Just for the record, I was dead serious about what I said too.

[floridian]

When I am so fortunate,sometimes I forget to say thank you for my trials,I forget that it is a gift to work paiticence,and that I am so slothful at times,forgeting some of the basic fundalmentals that older brothers taught me in the Spirit.this things anger me,sometimes my stupidity angers me.God is going to let me into His Heaven,because of the Blood of Jesus christ His Son,.

[wilma]

This is an article about ANGER I recently received from reFOCUS.
"reFocus is a network of referral and support for former members of closed, high demand groups, relationships or cults.

reFOCUS is dedicated to the recovery of former members. Please visit our web site at http://www.refocus.org
Email us at refocuscarol@.att.net

Featured Article: Coping with Anger By Janja Lalich and Madeleine Tobias

The emergence of anger is one of the first signs of recovery. Anger is a normal and healthy reaction to the hurts and assaults that you experienced. Anger is the most appropriate response to the abuse and manipulations of the cult. It is also the hardest emotion for some ex-members to get in touch with and deal with. If you feel angry, it means you are now ready to acknowledge that you were victimized, which can be incredibly painful. What was done was heinous-and you are entitled to your rage.

Just as fear is the backbone of mind control, anger is the fuel of recovery. Anger is an extremely valuable tool in healing. It fortifies your sense of what is right by condemning the wrong that was done to you. It gives you the energy and will to get through the ordeal of getting your life back together. Suppression of anger while in the cult contributed to depression and a sense of helplessness. Now the reverse is possible.

Anger can be a double-edged sword, however. It can motivate healing or be turned inward, against the self. Some people may find it easier to blame themselves than to use their anger to make necessary life changes. This can result in alcohol or drug use, physical illness, or emotional disorders including depression and suicidal thoughts and behaviors. Anger can also be directed at innocent others. If expressed inappropriately or unconsciously, anger can further a person's isolation. To be used effectively, anger must be focused on its source -- primarily the cult leader.

Remember that your anger may be hard for family, friends, and sometimes even therapists to accept. You may be urged to forgive and forget. Ex-members who have been brought up to hide or deny negative feelings may not have the tools or experience to know how to express this potentially healing emotion.

Former cult members "need to realize that what was done to them was wrong," writes Michael Langone. "[They] must be allowed -- encouraged even -- to express appropriate moral outrage. The outrage will not magically eliminate the abuse and its effects. Nor will it necessarily bring the victimizer to justice. But it will enable victims to assert their inner worth and their sense of right and wrong by condemning the evil done to them. Moral outrage fortifies good against formidable evil. Even implicitly denying victims' need to express moral outrage shifts blame from victimizers to victims. Perhaps that is why so many victims are disturbed by 'detached' therapists, or ‘objective' scientific researchers. They interpret the
detachment or ‘objectivity' as implicit blaming of themselves."

[wilma]

(more from the article listed above)

"People who have experienced a particularly traumatic cult involvement or childhood physical and sexual abuse share certain experiences. Both have been victimized by those they depended on and trusted. Many cult members have also been sexually and/or physically abused. All have been emotionally and spiritually victimized. Anger at such abuse can be expressed and transformed through the use of the techniques given below. Initially, it is important not to do these exercises alone. When repressed anger is first released, the intensity can be overwhelming, even frightening. Therefore, some of the activities listed here are best done with a trusted and stable friend or therapist.

1. Keep a diary and write about your anger and other strong feelings. Former cult members have consistently said that writing about their experience has been one of the most helpful vehicles for working through their feelings of betrayal and abuse.

2. Write a letter to your cult leader. Tell him or her off. It is not necessary to send it, especially if doing so would put you in danger. You don't have to mail the letter to feel the positive effects of having written it.

3. Talk to someone about your feelings. Make sure it is someone who can understand and empathize.

4. Turn on the shower, get in, and scream.

5. Get in your car, turn the radio on loud and scream -- but not while driving.

6. Do something physically expressive: pound pillows with a whiffle bat or tennis racket. Go into the woods and pound boulders with a sledgehammer (wear protective goggles). Direct your anger into the activity.

7. Fantasize taking revenge; imagine it. People spontaneously imagine scenarios in which their injured pride is restored. Don't, however, act out by doing something illegal or dangerous to another.

8. Speak out publicly about your cult experience. Get involved in an anti-cult group. This has been therapeutic for many ex-members.

9. Get the law on your side. If your group has been involved in criminal activity, consult a lawyer for your own protection before going to the police.

10. Consider a civil suit for damages against the cult. Again, seek legal advice about this first.

11. Take an assertiveness training course.

In the cult or with your abusive partner, it may have been dangerous or forbidden to express anger or rage. You learned to turn your anger inward, or to deny and suppress it. Now, give yourself permission to feel this emotion! There is a big difference between thinking, feeling, and acting out. Some former cult members are afraid that their rage is so powerful it will overwhelm them, which is why it is important to channel it constructively. When you do, you will start to feel relief and reinforce your freedom from domination."

In my opinion, if you have not experienced feelings of anger and moral outrage at how people were and are currently being treated at the alamo cult, then you are still in denial and suppressing your true feelings.

Glad to see Factnet is back up and running again!
SusieG

[anchored]

Wilma,
I understand they were installing new software for hacker prevention and other improvements. Great to see Factnet back in full swing again.

[floridian]

It is amazing that so many people,from the church,wether in or out,are so caught up in thier own thoughts and vengance,folks in the church do not remember how to speak in the spirit,and folks out of the church and blame the church,yet their mouth is even more hateful.

[wilma]

Is it hateful to speak the TRUTH?

SusieG

[wilma]

open_mind,
would you contact me?
SusieG

[floridian]

Wilma,The sword has two sides,

[floridian]

The church ,Psalm 133:1,Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! That is what it is all about,at least it is suppose to be.

[bintheredunthat]

It's all about the cross. The unity is unity with God in righteousness. It is not unity with reprobates who justify rape, child abuse, child molestation, adultery, theft and lying as motes in the eye or flies in the ointment.

[heynow]

Bin, I agree it is all about the cross and bringing people to it. I am sure you would agree God is pleased with churches that focus on soul winning, not polygamy and other such things. "He that winneth souls is wise."

[open_mind]

wilma how will i contact you?

[floridian]

binthere,it is possible to win souls without being a continual dropping,The oniment is the Spirit of God,and it is God that will exicute the vengance and if you do contrary,then you become the fly.Would you binthere like to see souls come to this board and dedicate there life to the Lord?

[wilma]

Open_mind,
you can contact me at wilma200@gmail.com

I look forward to hearing from you.

also, if anyone else would like to drop me a line and say hello that would be nice.

[floridian]

I think that binthere,wilma,and quite a few others are angry about still having to have to carry the cross, angry about the accountibility that they are in,I say to you very much in honesty and sincerity,It is a wonderful life not having to carry bitterness around all the time,and,not having,my life so caught up in just attacking other people,.. If you do well you will be accepted. ,

[anchored]

Floridian,
I had pretty much made up my mind not to reply to any more of your nonsense but you are so far out of touch with reality, it's pathetic.

Who said anyone is angry about "carrying the cross?" or "accountability"? You are so presumptuous about the people posting here and yet you know zip about them. You are the classic case of a hypocrite and false accuser. You remind me so much of Job's comforters, I'm convinced the same spirit that possessed them is in you.

If anyone is caught up in attacking people, it's you. You spend your entire life attacking the good people here who are exposing the truth about Tony Alamo. How could you have any time to do all this "witnessing" you claim to do if you're constantly waiting in the wings to jump on facnet and attack the people here???

There's a big difference between attacking people and simply exposing the truth and reporting the WICKED CHILD MOLESTING PEDOPHILE TONY ALAMO. The bible is full of reporting evil. Reporting evil is not being bitter. You are the accuser of the saints.

This opportunity to expose and report someone like the WICKED TONY ALAMO should be your agenda also but instead you direct people to that horrific hell hole, telling them when the SERVICE TIME ARE and recommending that LYING, THIEVING, CHILD ABUSING, RAPIST, ADULTERER, FORNICATOR, SCAMMER, EXPLOITER AND DESTROYER OF SOULS to be their pastor.

Instead of coming on here and gloating with your lofty-minded quoting of scriptures, you should be ashamed of yourself.

You need to repent and get right with God. No one is going to listen to someone like you. All they have to do is go back and skim over a few of your posts to know all the aforementioned. You need to get a life because, just like Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite all you are SO FULL OF HOT AIR quoting scriptures which have no true application.

[brother_d]

thank you anchored....couldn't have said it better myself.

[floridian]

Say what you want anchored,is there any words of comfort that may come forth of your mouth say on,and if not you should hold your peaceTthe scriptures are full of life,they are to be applied to ourselves everyday,who is doing the misreable comforting? let us look at your words(No one is going to listen to someone like you.)(Instead of coming on here and gloating with your lofty-minded quoting of scriptures, you should be ashamed of yourself.)( You are the accuser of the saints.)I am not accuseing look at you words,look at wilmas words,look at bintheres words.(I had pretty much made up my mind not to reply to any more of your nonsense but you are so far out of touch with reality, it's pathetic.)yes your name calling is pretty rough,What are you doing for the Lord,anchored ?you have alot of hatetred coming out of you, Jesus christ came not to send peace, Matthew 10:34, Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
You and myself and all others who have heard the truth preached the truth,and live for the truth can decide which side of the sword we are cut with,and faithful are the wounds of a friend,Friend.,2 Chronicles 30:9,For if ye turn again unto the LORD, your brethren and your children shall find compassion before them that lead them captive, so that they shall come again into this land: for the LORD your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.return to your first Love.I qoute the scriptures that I fully beleive that God wants me to qoute with all my heart to the hope that some will listen,and you and I both know,anchored,that the word of God will not return void, yet you say(quoting scriptures which have no true application.)why do not you try to saved that which is lost?,why not you,try and be a peace maker?,why not you?
It truely shows here in wilmas post(Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 3:00 pm: (more from the article listed above)
that her comforting comes from some mental health clinic,or a miserable comforting book,other than God.God is a very jealous God and God does not take to kindly to point out some other Comforter,than the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ the Son of God,died so that he could also send this comforter unto us,John 14:26,But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
All that means,all that means not to be shared with any of mans thoughts, John 16:7, Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
When you do not let God be true in all things,than for sure,all men are liars,and that includes anyone not wanting to let The Comforter do the Comforting.

[anchored]

What are you doing for the Lord,anchored ?


See there, I was right. You admit it. You know zip. The rest of your words are just HOT AIR!

What a maroon!

[anchored]

Oh by the way, it's obvious from your posts what you're doing, and it sure isn't for the Lord.

Directing people to that soul-destoying Tony Alamo so he can get more little underage virgins to be his sex slaves. You even tell them when the service times are so they won't be late. You serpent!

[jackrussell]

Floridian,
Sorry you been busted big time. Your comforter issue is all so out of whack, and context. It is all about counsel. Wilma, has relayed the facts about some wise counsel. Alamo christian ministries and Tomy Alamo is about as comforting and wise a counsel as Yassar Arrafat in a den of vipers. The 'old days' and old garments are far past. Floridian, you are talking the way you do, due to the fact that you have held onto some really bad counsel, it is called TONYSPEAK, we all been there done that, but now it is time 'to change what you can, not change what you can't, and the wisdom to know the difference.' Quit firing on all cylinders with 'bible words' designed to denigrate, belittle and pigeonhole other posters in finding some kind of fault (real or imagined) with their words or lifestyle. It is not your place, and if you give it place, who do you think you are giving place to?

Floridian, get off the defensive, a sincere apology to those you have offended would be a great start!

[jackrussell]

'Tomy Alamo!' a misspelling or freudian slip? Scarcello, hope you are listening, the pod is well on its way to being formed and the body snatch is almost complete!!

[brother_d]

Floridiot cheapens the name of God and the scriptures he espouses. I'm sure God is not pleased. Even tonee doesn't want anything to do with you, as much as you kiss his elevator shoes. Maybe you should take the advice of the posters who have responded to you Flor. It's real, unlike the trash that tonee has been feeding you.

[heynow]

That's interesting. Now most posts are floridian based.

[brother_d]

That's what he's here for...a plant to distract us from revealing the horrors of the Tony and Susan Alamo Christian Foundation.

[floridian]

It is o.k. to call me names,and make fun of me,I thought a couple of your responces where humorous also,let us get serious for a moment,Jesus Christ is the Son of God,and Jesus christ is Lord.I have not misqouted the word about the Comforter,if I have please show me cause I do not want Him angry at me,show me and all My misqoute of the Holy Comforter of God.Remember Jack if you think that some rehab center will do better for a human,you are in a dangerous area,so please show me my wrong,if you care for my soul.

[brother_d]

Proverbs 26:4

[floridian]

Big amen Proverbs 26:4,Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Proverbs 26:5,Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
Jesus Christ is Lord. It is nothing But the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ that is againest satan,and the Power that is in the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ,has me Whole.JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD,say it again,JESUS CHRIST,Nothing but the Blood of Jesus Christ.Please share him with someone today.

[floridian]

Deuteronomy 17:17,Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

[heynow]

Floridian, That sounds like a polygamy scripture. Does anyone else agree with floridian?

[jackrussell]

Floridian, you are going to help us keep this forum focused,

"Remember Jack if you think that some rehab center will do better for a human,you are in a dangerous area,so please show me my wrong,if you care for my soul."

Even a desert island would do better for anyone rather than another day at that cult, Alamo christian ministries. That is the dangerous place, Tony Alamo is the dangerous pastor, along with followers who are a danger to themselves and others and all the children are in danger.

[floridian]

You need to be focused on God first,Jack Russell Matthew 6:33, But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

[anchored]

Jack appears to be very focused to me. God wants us to report evil when we see it. Jack has stayed mainly focused on doing just that, which is more than I can say for anyone who would be directing souls toward their destruction by sending them to the Tony Alamo cult.

"Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we are escaped. Our help is in the name of the Lord, who made heaven and earth."

What kind of serpent would even think of sending someone headlong into that evil snare God delivered us from?

(Message edited by anchored on September 24, 2007)

[floridian]

A wise serpent,Matthew 10:16,Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

[anchored]

The key words would be wise "as" serpents, not to become the serpent.

So you think it is wise sending souls to the Alamo joint?

[floridian]

I beleive 100% that I handel that one and only time you keep bringing up over and over and ,well you know,The exact way that God wanted me to,it is my fruit,and I know what I was doing,yet because ya'll did not know what I was doing ya'll really made me look bad in front of my fruit,I am not going to let my right hand see my left hand's hand...I beleive so much in the brotherhood,that once was,and could be again.

[brother_d]

The Tony Alamo cult is just that. It has no basis in true Christian teachings, but is just a vehicle for tonee to live his decadent lifestyle.

[bintheredunthat]

There is absolutely no way that God would lead anyone to send someone to the Alamo cult. No possible way.
From your post it's obvious that you care more about how you look in front of others than you do in the real welfare of their souls.
We knew what you were doing. You were feeding a young lamb to the wolves. It's not like you don't know what Alamo is up to. It appears that you are instead "willingly ignorant."

[floridian]

That is just a thought you and maybe some others have, God knows what He is doing,Do you binthere know what God is Doing,Isaiah 55:8,For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. Isaiah 55:7,For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

[brother_d]

binthere...forget ol' Wormtongue. He serves his master.

Tony Alamo, aka Bernie Hoffman, is a thief, liar, hater of mankind, abuser, and child molester. Does heretic fall into any part of that description?

[floridian]

Hebrews 12:15,Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

[brother_d]

If you're happy to be free of the Alamo cult, post your testimony here. No need to be angry, you're free now.

[heynow]

Floridian posted that quote:
Deuteronomy 17:17,Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

Like I mentioned before, it really sounds like a polygamy scripture. Are there any Bible scholars out there that can expound on this scripture? Well..expound on the scripture NOT the person of Floridian.

Okay now, another prophecy. No Bible scholars on this board will be able to expound on the scripture mentioned by floridian. The scripture again: Deuteronomy 17:17,Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

[anchored]

That's easy. That doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out. That describes Tony Alamo to a tee.

Although, I'm sure his heart was already turned away before he started his perverted multiple "wife" journey. And we all know that he has always multiplied to himself riches which he has directly stolen from his hard-working duped slave laborers.

[bintheredunthat]

Alamo believes that his wives were given to him by God. Therefore he did not multiply them God multiplied them.

Besisdes that Alamo is not a king therefore that scripture doesn't apply to him. Just like the scripture about a bishop having one wife. Alamos answer to that is "I'm not a bishop."

If the scripture said a world pastor was to be the husband of one wife he would simply change his title and say I'm the world teacher or I'm the world prophet or whatever.

Alamo applies the word very literally when it suits him and very generally when he needs it that way. He's very flexible when it comes to the word of god. That's just how he thinks. He always finds a way to do what he wants regardless of what the Bible says. He will lie, steal from the homeless (his interpretation of remember the poor), commit adultery, rape children, beat children, molest children, beat adults and anything in between without compunction. He is truly a consciece seared reprobate concerning the faith.


Luckily for you hey now that I'm not a Bible scholar otherwise you would be a false prophet.

[dyann]

It's just a guess, but I'm pretty sure Deuteronomy is one of the "Law" books given to the early jews to keep them legal. The practice of polygamy was around long before God's covenant with Abraham.

[dyann]

SusieG, Thank you for that link and the information.
I was in secular "Therapy" for years and to no avail.
Not until God healed me with his Holy Spirit was I able to come to terms with my involvment with this cult.
The understanding that I was led to Salvation by the Holy Spirit, not the leaders. That He used the prayer chains and grounding in the Word all those years and NOT the lies from the pulpit, allowed me to justify God's righteousness in all the craziness then. I am thankful for that time and thankful that GOD led me out of that mire of deceit.
And very thankful that he saved my sanity in all of it.

[dyann]

Floridian~~
Do NOT use the Word of God as a sword against your brother, neither use it as a weapon against the righteous... Follow your own advice.

"You need to be focused on God first, Jack Russell Matthew 6:33, But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

I am praying for you to stay focused on your Saviour and his Word. The Holy Spirit will show you the error of man, and the Truth of our Lord.

Peace and righteousness to you always Floridian.

[floridian]

Yes I do follow the scriptures,Dyann,and that sword is what you have to use,and can give life,Proverbs 6:23,For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life: Proverbs 10:17,He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth. Hebrews 4:12,For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I could kill with the word of God or I can give life with the word of God,and I choose to give life,Proverbs 27:6,Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
I thank you very much,Dyann,for your word that you have spoken,I know that it is truely from your Heart,Thank you Dyann.

[brother_d]

Proverbs 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Dyann, be careful of those who come to you on this board espousing friendship.

[dyann]

If I learned anything at all, brother_d, it's discernment. ;-)
A little covertness is more effective than overtness at times.
thanks for watching my back brother d.
And I remember Dave with love and affection. What a sweet spirit.

[floridian]

Do not forget Dyann,that if I am to have friends than, Proverbs 18:24,A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

[no_stoppin_me]

Hey Floridian, don't forget this one "He who go to bed with cookies, hath crummy sleep"

[floridian]

No stoppin,So then are you saying,I should stop eating cookies in bed or stop sleeping?

[heynow]

Anchored, So you agree with floridian.

[brother_d]

floridian doesn't even agree with himself from one post to another.

[open_mind]

this is about someone totally different,but look.i found this article in my aol news.

While polygamy itself was not on trial - the couple were monogamous - the case focused attention on the practice of polygamy in Utah, where it has generally been tolerated in the half-century since a government raid in 1953 proved a public relations disaster, with children photographed being torn from their mothers' arms.

The mainstream Mormon Church, or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, renounced polygamy more than a century ago, excommunicates members who engage in the practice, and disavows any connection to Jeffs' church.

Jeffs succeeded his father in 2002 as president of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Since at least the 1920s, members of the FLDS have lived in the twin towns of Colorado City, Arizona, and Hildale, Utah, where the women wear long prairie dresses and have long braided hair, and the men dress modestly too, often in buttoned-up shirts.

Former members say Jeffs rules with an iron fist, demanding perfect obedience from followers and exercising the right to arrange marriages as well as break them up and assign new spouses.

''This trial has not been about religion or vendetta. It was simply about child abuse and preventing abuse,'' the victim, now 21, said in prepared remarks after the verdict.

''The easy thing would have been to do nothing, but I have followed my heart and spoken the truth,'' she said, declining to take questions from reporters.

The Associated Press generally does not name those who allege sexual abuse.

At the trial, widely different versions of the relationship - and Jeffs' influence - were presented by the woman and her former husband, Allen Steed, 26.

At their wedding in 2001 at a Nevada motel, the woman said, she cried in despair when pressed by Jeffs to say ''I do'' and had to be coaxed to kiss her new husband. The woman testified that FLDS girls receive no information about their bodies or reproduction. She said she did not even know sex was the means by which women had babies.

The woman said the couple were married for at least a month before they had intercourse, her husband telling her it was ''time for you to be a wife and do your duty.''

''My entire body was shaking. I was so scared,'' she testified. ''He just laid me on the bed and had sex.''

Afterward, she slipped into the bathroom, where she downed two bottles of over-the-counter pain reliever and curled up on the floor, she said. ''The only thing I wanted to do was die,'' she said.

But Steed testified that his teenage bride initiated their first sexual encounter, approaching him after he fell asleep in his clothes after a 12-hour day at work.

Under Utah law, a 14-year-old can consent to sex in some circumstances. But sex is not considered consensual if a person under 18 is enticed by someone at least three years older.

For reasons prosecutors have never explained, Steed has not been charged with a crime.

Jeffs is also charged in Arizona with being an accomplice to both incest and sexual misconduct with a minor for arranging marriages between two underage girls and relatives of theirs. In addition, Jeffs is under federal indictment in Utah on charges of fleeing to avoid prosecution.

The charismatic Jeffs was captured in a traffic stop last year just outside Las Vegas after about 18 months on the run. At the time, he was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list,

[anchored]

Warren Jeffs and Tony Alamo are cut out of the same mold, only Jeffs pales in comparison to A-lame-o.

[wilma]

open_mind,
can you tell us how you feel about warren jeff being convicted and how that relates to what you saw at tony's house in fouke?
I also would like to connect with you at wilma200@gmail.com

I'm so glad you made it out of the alamo group. Wishing you all life's best,
SusieG

[anchored]

Hey Tone,

You better put some jets on them elevator boots because they're coming after your sorry butt next.

Better stock up on some extra adult diapers too. You're gonna be needin em.

Get your famous tie-dyed shirt out of storage, you'll be needing that again too.

[anchored]

Hey Tony,

You better start thinking about whose ID your going to steal next. You can't use Harvey Cochrane's any more.

[anchored]

And for goodness sake, before you're arrested this time, put some make-up on. And be sure and smile for the cameras this time instead of that sulky pout.

[dyann]

Open Mind

Kudos to you and your bravery.
It wasn't easy for any of us.
I can remember the day I escaped vivedly.
I knew for sure when I left that property that God was going to allow the vehicle to crash and I was going directly to Hell.
Each day that went by without that lie happening, allowed my eyes to open just a little bit more.
A loving, understanding, gentle God became more and more real to me than all the threats and lies from the Alamos ever were.
Keep reading your bible, praying and asking God to reveal His compassion to you and you'll be stronger every day.
Truth overcomes every darkness

[anchored]

Dyann,
I love that statement
"A loving, understanding, gentle God became more and more real to me than all the threats and lies from the Alamos ever were."

That's my experience too. I gradually came out from under that umbrella of always feeling the condemnation that the Alamos so carefully put us under. We began to realize that God really did love us and wants us to be with him in his kingdom forever so much more than we can imagine.

And discovering that it's not a grievous, exhausting, oppressive life after all to serve God.

Thanks for sharing that.

[dyann]

I have questions for you Anchored.
But I don't want the answers posted here.
If you don't want your email address posted in here for me, would you please email me? Dyann@att.net}

[anchored]

Sure thing. Will e-mail you sometime today.

[dyann]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

And just a little warning for you folks who feel "Lead" to spam me or send me stupid stuff, I am a govt employee and have access to some great trace mechanisms, and means to have you banned from not only your service provider but the entire world-wide-net.

[floridian]

Do you have any info on the govs ability to trace us Christian,You know Dyann it will not be long when they will be searching for some of us wrongfuly.Some of us have to be around for that folks and it is gonna be rough,and you know folks,being in the church has helped me to be pepared for it.

(Message edited by floridian on September 26, 2007)

[d_eddy]

Tony Alamo as we all know has Children and adults beaten.
There are many eyewittnesses that have seen T.A. drunken.
And on one or more of the polygamy tapes he stated : The Lord must be delaying his comming because he is having me do this. (he was talking about if 10 brothers had 10 wifes and each had a child every year he would have an army. Matt
24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.


Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


Mat 24:45 ¶ Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?


Mat 24:46 Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.


Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.


Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;


Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;


Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of,


Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[dyann]

EXCELLENT Scripture D-Eddy!
(thunderous applause!)

[d_eddy]

Thankyou dyann
I don't think we have ever had a chance to meet but I have seen you know alot of the people who were at the foundation before me.
I arrived in 1979 and left in 1988

[dyann]

Welcome home then d_eddy. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
You belong here now.

[floridian]

Thank you for the scriptures deddy.

[anchored]

Floridian said:

"Church services starts in Arkansas at 7 PM,In saugus at 8 pm,you should get there about 5 minutes till,and please have it set in your heart to hear and then leave after services,say hello,you confessed that you said the sinners prayer,so now just a little fellowship then you are off back to your home,then lets talk about it,REMEMBER JOE,we all wait to hear back from you,I will speak with you later,and thank you for becomeing a Brother in the Lord as you have confessed here on this board."

[floridian]

I have never denied saying that yet there is more to that post that anchored is leaving out.read it yet anchored insists that I have done it many times,and yes it is my fruit and Yes I did exactly what God wanted me to do and he found his sister and she was not there and he thanked me for being used by God to lead him to rededicate.I know that I handeled him the way God wanted me to do,hey read the whole post.I beleive very much that anchored is very bitter that I was used,if you read his post be fore you will see how the bitterness in most of the folks on this board drove the man away they attacked this poor man that was trying to find the light,and after anchored and quite a few others seen God used me they began to attack me.It is not funny,it is your soul that you are playing with George

[d_eddy]

IGNORE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^

[floridian]

last tuesday I beleive it was,I had telemarketer called my house,and started to go on,and I was going to say the wrong thing first,and tell him to take my name off of their calling list and that I was not intrested,but I was told in my head to shut up and listen first,so my inner me did shut up,and listen,then,I was able to be used by God to pray him through,right then.. I can get in the way of God,I can interject my own stupidity,or I can shut up and be used by God,I choose the third,I am a unprofitable servant,I do what is my reasonable service is,I am saved by grace,not of works alone,I am wanting to make God happy and to be used by God,I am a sinner saved by the mercies of God,I am wanting to be stronger for God,I am wanting to make it through the great tribulation that is coming so quickly,and the more that I can be used by God the stronger I will become to help,not myslf so much,but others,my family,people from the church,in the church,the more I die daily,the more I can be used by God.

[modesto]

21"I" s 7 "me"s and 1 "myself".I see what you mean Dyann.

I remember some ex- angel talking in the Bible like that somewhere.

[modesto]

Got to admit to two "I"s myself but what can you do?It was for a good cause.Unlike others' use of it.

[floridian]

How about paul a servant,I feel it needful to write unto you,for I long to see you,first I thank God,now I would not have you ignorant,I maybe comforted,I proposed to come unto you,I might have some fruit among you,I am debtor,I am ready to preach,I am not ashamed,That is just chapter 1 of Romans,Then chapter 2 starts off, Romans 2:1,Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2,But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3,And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Well I think that Chapter 2 of Romans should be read,don't you Modesto ?

[anchored]

Ignore

[dyann]

Wow John, I thought I had "un-sent" that post!
*LOL*
You get the aol smooch for payin' attention http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

[dyann]

*... leanin' on Mac's shoulder, above...ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz*

[floridian]

some people might want a copy,you do not have to have it,so why would you denie others,why do you mock,why to you make fun of,why do you seek to offend and not save,why would anyone not have the sinners prayer,because they really don't care.

[dyann]

Prov. 24: