OT savings alternate

[jackrussell]

Just a brief diversion from the Alamo justice being sought is about the upcoming surge in alternate (metal) money. To anyone interested, holding any savings in gold and silver is still legal. The bull market in metal money begun in 2001 is maturing and likely to go parabolic in the next few years as paper money/plastic money greatly loses more purchasing power, before the NWO digital/mark money becomes fully implemented.

On the link for the kitco site you can check the 10 year gold chart for the very telling surge to be continued in the precious metals upswing. So anyone interested do your own due diligence, make a study of this alternative money while there is time(not too much time though) and read some of the kitco and 321gold commentaries to make your own informed decisions. And vaya con Dios!

http://kitco.com/

[christophr19]

I have a question.

About Gold..... What makes us so sure that "they"(NWO and their ilk) aren't behind the gold market....I mean they own ALL of the money markets and money systems that are and have ever been used in the system of society.....well, besides barter.
"Gold is the money of royalty, silver of merchants, and paper is the currency of slaves."
- old saying.

[jackrussell]

Chris,

If you are alluding to that can gold/silver be manipulated, my answer would be a resounding, yes. As real estate can, and whatever.

But for the nowtime, metal money is a good savings play for awhile, based on the intrinsic value. I fancy silver, which recently finds a new use in shirts, as some threads can be put in and its function is as an antibacterial. I may get TA one for Christmas, cause boy does that ole man STANK!!

[carolfryer]

I was wondering about all those buy gold commercials. When the time comes that gold is illegal to save at all, then all the nice people who try to use what they bought will likely go to prison for even having it. I agree that it would be more valuable then paper but that time will come and it will be like TA did. You arent allowed to have anything to fall back on so you are easily controlled. The only out I see is being led by the spirit of God so He can tell you what moves to make and actually make you invisable to the enemy when the need comes. And the enemy wont be able to predict your moves either. But when its time to die, its just time to die.
I do also think its important to prepare ...but spiritual preparation is first.

[christophr19]

couldn't have ever said it better Mrs. Fryer.
thank you.

[jackrussell]

I commend anyone for that strong spirituality, however I don't consider myself above having to grasp at straws a bit and really studying to be approved, making a bunch of mistakes along the way.

The biblical arguments for gold/silver from what I have read as real money is that they are the actual lifesblood of the earth for that use, as they run in veins, allegorically as blood runs in our veins which is our life.

So rather than being an alternate form of money/currency, the precious metals were originally deemed and designed by God as money since the beginning of time. This money function has of course been greatly sidestepped in this past century. The Lord says to trust no man, and that includes altering the viability and value of precious metals which have their own value in and of themselves due to their varied and industrial uses as the essence of money in trade. I expect the Lords currency of gold/silver,etc to come back into its own (current), and that current may become rather explosive and electrical.

Won't happen overnite, but should happen as international power brokers begin to divest themselves of indebted paper/plastic/digital currency representations in favor of usuable stuff without debt attachments. Keep your eye on it, and to each, his/her own.

[christophr19]

I hear your words, and consider them.
I have to ask though....if money is of the Creator, then why did Jesus(the example) never touch, require, ask or receive money. In fact, the only reference I see him touching money is when he turned over the tables of the moneychangers and drove them out. When he was asked for coin for taxes, he flippantly sent them down to fetch it out of a fish's mouth, but he didn't touch it or have any of his own.
He taught his friends to not accept(or give) money for the kindness, love, and compassion they showed to their fellow man. It would seem to me that Jesus knew that money was the lifeblood of the system of man. In the natural world, what extreme value does gold or silver have???? not much more so than many other metals, true they have some vibrational and medicinal uses. But besides that, they have no especial and higher value. It is only in the system of man(and programmed into the mind and society) that these paticular metals have all power and authority.
Without gold or money, do you think that armies could be raised??
One would have a much harder time cheating others through the use of usury, credit, and unjust scales, in the barter system....but these are all earmarks and perks of the money system of man.
Debt would no longer have the same meaning, in fact, it would probably be wiped out; if the money system was not all there is.
"if a person is born into a world where there parents are already in debt to the system; which the children will have to pay off when they grow up, then they are essentially born into slavery."
If we are working jobs to pay our bills(another word for debt), then we are slaves....we just "lead/follow" more comfortable and overly convenient lives than slaves in the past.
if the lord says trust no man....then why should we trust the currency and value that men give to the metal they worship.
Daisies, birds, fish, trees, and all living things have no need nor desire for gold, except man.
Not the Creator....but man.

[jackrussell]

The'value' of the metals that run in veins is changeable depending on the current usuage. One can make a lot of different forms of gold/silver and where they differ say from copper, nickel, tin, oil(even oil breaks down in time), etc., is that being their non corrosive eternal properties. They do not rust, nor perish. They transfer heat in current rapidly, and as in silver, near perfect reflectivity can be obtained (mirrors, solar). The myriad list of uses is lenghty.

In this, a store of value is established as money or trade for other perishable items, food, shelter, clothing, etc. Gold/silver actual in hand is intrinsically usuable regardless of the amount of stationary time kept, unlike the verbal, plastic or paper vouchers supposed to serve as golds replacement, having no actual values in and of themselves, thereby establishing a trust factor of measured risk, at any time, to these valueless instruments convertibility to gold or to any other real item of any use or value. We live in a world of physics, so we must believe in the law of gravity.

Some of the other questions presented, I do not have response, or answer, but I will say,,,,,
'Trust in Jesus, not in silver,' Unlike Judas, who certainly failed to realize who made the silver, what for and why.

[jackrussell]

Chris,
Thought about the point you mentioned of the moneychangers in the temple, and the ire that they received, and their upturned tables of flying money,lol.

My understanding on this is limited, but several responses I read off the internet not too long ago stated that the temple business the moneychangers were engaged in was necessary for the non perishable to perishable exchange, however, but not only had they monopolized the trade, but cheated further by unjust weights and balances, sub standard product, etc, etc. 'Merchandizing' business increases its own by profits. There is even much more to the scripture than that but my memory and knowledge escapes me. Your thoughts are welcome!

[christophr19]

I think where I am heading with this: is that money and all that it entails, is the life blood of an unnatural system; if we were to reject it, the system would cease to function and eventually collapse on itself. We have to give it meaning and pre-eminence, for it to have power and influence over us. Why not make bread a currency? Or beans, grains,a myriad different things with use?
What function can money perform(outside of it's own system) that will better, or sustain our lives in anyway?
Can you eat it? No but you can buy food with it....oh wait....the vast majority of all food is now made with GEI's & GMO's. Can you plant it? No, but you can buy seed with it.....wait.....the only seeds that are available now, are terminator seeds: sterile seeds that only produce one crop; that makes you dependant on the company that owns and makes these seeds(Monsanto and all other big corporate agricultural empires). Can it keep you warm? Only if you burn it.
Well, I guess we found a use for it after all!

No the only use money has and has ever had, was to make us dependant on the small elite wealthy that has always controlled the flow, production, value, and storage of "money".

There is a quote by a famous Roth-(red)-child in the 1700's. He had just gained control of a very important banking structure, and was asked if he would now pursue a career in politics and government. He replied: "give me control of the money, and I care not who makes the rules."
He said this because money and the those who make and control it, rule the system and everything in the system......>>>

[christophr19]

>>>>>........IT can be said that since we live in a system that works on money, then what else can we do but use it. Well, what if said system and it's opportunities for wealth, was only meant to be temporary? WHy force the body to slavery, when if you get the mind first, the body comes willingly....Perhaps the goal was to lull the people into competetive societal norms and to entice the ego with gadgets, toys, naughty bits, exotic foods and entertainment; to influence(commercials selling the illusions of happiness and fantasies, and how their product can give them to you)us the little economic units(good little producer/consumer) to BEE motivated to go out and do the jobs they provide. To build them:
towers and underground shelters, where they can hideout and plan our "destiny". Awesome and terrible weapons, with which to cull the herd. Prisons to hold the restless and antisocial ones. Schools where they program the kiddies(the word kid meant: the spawn of baphomet) to BEE good litle worker Bees...ever wonder why the school BUZZes are yellow and black?? Hospitals where they sell expensive lies and slow acting and life draining poisons/"medicines". And ON and ON we go in this fashi-ON. They have us build all of these institutions of culture creation and societal prgramming; in order to slowly and surely prepare future generations for the hive mind to come. They plan centuries in advance what is to happen in society and history. Nothing happens in this system, by chance; it is and has always been managed by those at the top. Throughout all of history, the mass/common man has always been extremely poor and at the mercy of those with wealth, power and lazy-boy schemes. It is not till very recently in our history that there was created and allowed a middle(3rd)class...and who says we don't live in a caste system???.....
The wealth of the planet, and the enjoyment of it all; was never meant for us the common people. It is only a carrot on a stick to get us to do the labor to build their utopia. We are building the machines and technologies that will enslave and re-format humanity. Our little fifteen minutes of glory-daze and the spotlight will soon be over, and then where will our "virtual" wealth take us???

[christophr19]

Perhaps the most important and conclusive point I should bring up, is that the few wealthy elite who control the worlds wealth; also own the mines that produce the gold and all the companies that mint, sell, buy, loan, seize, store, etc, etc the entire gold market. They control the fluctuations in value, and make multitudes in profit to boot.
There may be many different and varied booths at the carnival, but remember.... "it's the only game in town". The price is your will, and the prize: Suckr-your-it-y. "step right up, Step right up! Who wants to play?"...........and the beat goes on.

[jackrussell]

Their game, their rules, their umpires, no question. Have to go along to get along, else get rolled over. So now and then got to figure out the squeeze play on anti-cipation and pre emptive strike. Else wise all the 200 million young chinese pea sants have their best bet in the army, if they want to eat that promise to eat. Coming to a neighborhood near you.

[christophr19]

Or....we could all just take the ball(which is our will and energy), quit playing with bullies and go.... ????.....just a thought, but if enough of us did this....then what's the worst they could do? Kill us? If they did that, at least we used the only real power the creator gave us...OUR choice. At least we would have used it for something, instead of us all giving in and giving over our free will to play their vicious and twisted games. I would rather die free than live in slavery; and I would way rather attempt to survive and provide for myself and my family than to accept their filthy lucre and pampered lifestyle that comes at the price of my soul and the future of all children to come after us.

[smitty]

I guess the next question would be... What next?...at first glance it would seem the "act local" thing to do would be to set up with a group of folks away from everybody else and "the system". But there's also a problem in that too. Case in point. in the 1840's the Mormons "opted out" from what they felt was a corrupt society and moved in mass to set up out in the wilderness. In a great measure they succeded in creating their own seperate society, untill they got too big, then their own leadership became the same kind of "system" they were originaly fleeing from. I'm not necessaily disagreeing, it just seems that human nature being what it is, we are always our own worst enemy.

On another note.. Kudos for having a thread with a lots of thought and no bickering!! Nice place here, I might movehttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[christophr19]

Thank you smitty,
I really see no reason to ever fight, I mean so what! we might not always agree on things. But you know, is there any reason why we just can't share, listen and think? If we don't take what is said personally, and just listen and consider, then what can't we talk about?

the reason I think the mormon idea did not succeed, is because mormonism is, like tony and his cult, just one of the many twigs on a branch of the tree(system). You cannot flee the system and start over again successfully, while using the same ideas, practises, traditions, etc that are all part of the system we would be trying to do with out. It would end up being "a chip off the old block"(ashlar/perfect sqare-"perfected" man). We would almost have to forget all we think we know and start over again.
i think that the tribal idea of indigenous peoples(sans the religions/superstitions) seems to be the most natural and healthy way of congregating in a community. There is a book you might check out; it is a comparative study of so called "savage" and "backward" tribes and peoples, vs modern and civilized society. It is called : The Maker's Diet by Jordan S. Rubin.
And that is just the diet and health perspective.
There is no such thing as any child being left behind, because the children are raised by the tribe. So they have as many parents, relatives, friends, companions, and teachers as are available at any time in the tribe. WHen the focus is taken off the amassing of wealth and convenience, and shifted back to making and doing for yourself, your mate and children and the the good of the whole tribe; well then it seems that ego is not stroked, and self centered-ness is not encouraged.
Now I am not saying it wouldn't be hard, but if one generation could teach itself to sustain....then the next generation would learn from them, and so on.
there is a story of a man who went to amazon to observe and interact with an indigenous tribe. After being among them for some length of time, he goes back to civilization; he decides to make them a gift of a number of steel axes which were shinier and more "advanced" than their own stone and wood creations. He comes back after a year to visit, and finds the gift of axes rusting in the same pile he left a year before. He asked them why, and they told him that if they used his axes their children would get used to them and forget the art of tool making and so would no longer be independent, but instead would have to rely on the outside world for something. One thing would lead to another, and so ON.
If we need no man to teach us spiritually, then what if all we needed was provided for us in nature wherever we looked? We would just have to know where and what to look for.
An example of the simplicity of it all.
cattails....seemingly an unpromising thing, but it is called the nature's grocery store for a reason. There are i believe(don't quote me on the exact number)26 different uses for food and medicine in this plentiful "wildflower". Daisies, clover, dandelion, etc, etc. the list is very long and varied. Let's all learn and thrive, who knows....one day they may keep us alive.

[smitty]

Well.. It sounds good and all..but I belive the mortality rates for most "natural" indeginous peoples are horrendus. Secondly, most of what I have read of North Am. Native peoples leads me to think that they sepnt just as much time fighting and hating other tiibes as any "civilized" people. As an example....The people we call Apache, call themselves the "Dineh" which mean "The People" We got the name Apache from the Navaho, which translated into "The Enemy". The Sioux peoples were notorious for monoplizing trade over a vast area and always fought with the Mandans and Blackfeet. Up North you have the Inuit which means (yup) The People. They refer to the tribes south of them as "Those who have lice". The same ones in the south (who had the lice), call the Inuit, Eskimos, or "Those who eat rotton fish". It seems that no matter where you go, people are people (thus making a good case why we need a Saviour). Anyways, this is my own .02 worth.Peace

[jackrussell]

Idealistically(spiritually) twood be nice if we can give out the benefit of the doubt and all just get along but I tend to go along with Smitty and Skeptik on the premise of 'let your suretiship(sic) be sure, trust no man, and use any means of most legal opportunities for to be fruitful and multiply. Personally, I enjoy creature comforts, hockey games, the winters in florida, boat trips on the water, TV (sounds like a singles ad, lol) and don't care to readjust to something much different especially under an even crueler taskmaster. But to each his own, thats why as ex members, we can actually agree to disagree. I usually dislike even a verbal row with anyone and will likely acquiesce, or diminish the importance unless the subject at hand is of radical importance of continuing danger as the Alamo case, of which this forum is really all about, of which I will not back off.

I have had some extremely anointed heavenly experiences(many years ago), which no man can take away, but even these spiritsational incidences pale in comparison to the innocence, and Jesusness, and absolute heavenly beauty you can just see in the childs/toddlers countenance. Don't want to miss that, I believe that is what the next world is all about. You talk about real value! That is what it is. That is why anyone on this forum that has the concern about what is most valuable, children, has to take a stand against what TA is all about. We need to downplay our flaws and differences and focus on the real problem, that ole TA is still belligerent enough to keep (w)reeking havoc in Fouke and elsewhere and continually dragging down any body that he has snatched and invaded.

Anybody ever see the scifi movie 'Invasion of the body snatchers?' Great movie, first debeued in the 1950's then the remake well done in 1978, starring Donald Sutherland. Eventually the invaded became exactly as their invaders, like the members of Alamo ministries have become or are becoming. Shame on all of them for the utter devaluation of children.

And back to gold, it is a thing of beauty, but don't trust in it, just use it if you can, in the same way you need to eat, cook the food if you can, or if you prefer it cooked.

[smitty]

Actualy, I liked the idea of a thread to kick around philosophical stuff. All the other ones seem to dissolve into bickering lately.

[christophr19]

RE: mortality rate of indeginous peoples....Much of those statistics have been skewed and taken out of context. Indeed there were many things that posed danger to native tribes, and the chance of death was a likely scenario. This constant threat meant that one had to be ever watchful and vigilant and this fostered an almost uncanny extra "instinct" of sixth sense, which is common in the natural world and animal kingdom.

While there were many threats in the natural and wild that are not found in society, those in the tribal way of thinking that survived, most often grew to be very old and without dis-ease and frailty. What one of our society can boast of strength and virility at 85--100yrs??? At least in their way of life, the dangers and threats were obvious and most often avoidable with caution and alertness. Their are so many multitude of things that can harm and kill us in this, our "modern" and "civilized" culture, and most of them we are not even aware of. That is not even counting the myriad things around us in our daily lives that are slow acting poisons and dangers to us(For instance...you know that plastic cup you are drinking out of, do you want to know what it is doing to your body??). I could spend much words and time listing them all, but I do not wish to burden us all with that.


The part about the ruthlessness of some of the native american tribes: While some of the tribes were very warlike and "savage", this was not the norm. And who is to say that those tribes were not influenced by outside interference?? We know that columbus was most definitely not the "discoverer" of america, in fact this continent was well known and travelled by the peoples of ancient times(even so far back, as before our fist recorded history(UR and such).

if history doesn't change....and those in power today often stir up small nations and opposing groups to war and fight each other....than who's to say this same practise of divisive, self-conquering, manipulation was not acted out on the native tribes of old?? I am not saying that is the answer......I'm just saying that you can't rule it out; unless you were there, or had the records of what happened. And the only few that have that information available, are definitely not going to let us know.

However, I do agree that we need a way out(your word being saviour), and the Creator gave us each that way. Ancient words sum up the whole of the spiritual union between the individual and their Creator,
they are: KA (+) BA.
The KA was soul of a person, and the BA was the person's spirit. Now spirit and soul were different parts and did not dwell in the same shell, at first.... The BA was the personal and direct link to the Creator that was tailor made for each individual. It was said that when the soul(KA)was ready and willing(through searching and truly knowing one's own heart and soul), then the Spirit(BA)would approach; thus creating a perfect union and match. This was called seeking one's better half, or looking for your soul('s)-mate.

[christophr19]

RE: the creature comforts.
That has always been the way the sly conquerers have taken over a people. Get them used to and hooked on, all the niceties of technology and convenience so that they lose the knowledge and abilities to provide for themselves outside of the "system" that is supplied for them, by the sly conquerers behind the curtain......and soon enough they can't live without it, and will eventually do what they have to do to hold onto the only way of existing they know. They can then be led around whichever way the person pulling the TV cable so chooses.

So I leave the gold to whomever wants to grab the strings, and play the game. I would rather choose to be poor and rejected of men, then to be rich and led like a hen.

[smitty]

I would rather be free to create and invent and be paid a fair price for my efforts. If that is what creates the "niceities of technology" and "creature comforts, then so be it. Once upon a time my ancestors were nomadic hunter-gatherers and wore rough animal skins too. They also usualy died by age 40 as well.
In any culture, sooner or later one of the members will learn to make something better, or do a task more effciently. That's why Summerians went from flint tools to copper and then the Greeks went to bronze.That's why Romans went to iron. It's called progress.

[christophr19]

Ok.

[smitty]

Ok.
Chris: On another note, I recently read a book you might enjoy. It's titles "The Case for Goliath", it talks about how the U.S. functions as the World Government. The author is in favor of it, although I'm sure you and I would disagree with him. It does have a good deal of information though that you might be able to use...

[jackrussell]

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/russell/russell112306.html

[jackrussell]

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff112406.html

[jackrussell]

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/maund/maund112706.html

[jackrussell]

The way a currency is cankered is by the four letter word DEBT. Since our single most largest emerging creditor of the USdollar are the Chinese, time is on our side only as long as until the markers are called in. As USA approaches the $9 trillion debt mark going into 2007, those dollars outstanding continue being cheapened until those creditors realize that their 'full faith and credit' may soon be a rather empty promise. This link presenting the tick tock of the clock characterizes more spinorama than the best wide receivers in the NFL!!

http://toptips.com/debtclock.html

[jackrussell]

Chris especially, this buds for you. Hope you like sum of it.

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/mathid/mathid122706.html

[jackrussell]

Dec. 29 excerpt from the 'Hat trick letter.'

MIDEAST POWER PLAY LEVERAGE
The collective group of European nations wants access to the vast gas fields in Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, and the Caspian region. Eurasia is embroiled in a war over energy pipelines, a main subplot in the Global Energy War. The inauguration of the BTC oil pipeline in July marked a significant new event in the global energy chessboard, as it connects the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean Sea via Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Turkey, all firm US allies.

It is my contention that most of all conflict between the United States and Iran involves Russia far more than the public is told, far more than the US press & media reveal in controlled fashion. Russia aids Iran in every controversial aspect which the US finds objectionable. The leaders through their mouthpieces do not wish to incite Cold War emotions and attitudes, although that is precisely what the battle for energy supply and supremacy has engendered. Expect Cold War rhetoric to return in due time.

It is also my contention that in the private conversations between heads of state, Russia is using Europe in blackmail maneuvers. Any military initiative waged against Iran by US Forces will be met with a reaction by Moscow on the energy front, namely natural gas supply to Eastern Europe and Western Europe. Iran has itself threatened on numerous occasions to halt oil shipments if under attack. Russia will surely follow suit. This is a stalemate, made gripped in locked state by the presence of Russia. Its alliance with Iran and its vast formidable strength as an energy powerhouse enable it to stymie US intentions in the Mideast region, whether of an aggressive or constructive nature. My steady view has been tilted toward the former, not the latter.

Notice that the name China has not been mentioned above, by intention. In recent days, the US Embassy has delivered warnings to Beijing on progress toward Iranian energy deals. The $16 billion deal has triggered a USGovt response, according to a standing law against nations engaged in overt terrorism and moving on a path toward nuclear conflagration. One must wonder if their energy projects with Tehran will interfere with sizeable Wall Street stock fees from initial public offerings. This can only get worse!

The United States finds itself in a very weak position relative to OPEC, to Russia, to much of Central Asia, to Iran, and to China, even to the northern rim of South America. The "full spectrum dominance" strategy has worked very badly to enhance US national interests. Nowhere is vulnerability more acute than in the energy world. The threat to the USDollar is multi-faceted. Three important sides are the trade and credit imbalances, along with energy dependence, followed by central bank diversification. The energy submissiveness by the United States, vis a vis Russia, is not sufficiently covered in the mainstream or even in major website journals. The associated weakness raises the stakes geopolitically, raises the risks of military aggression, and raises the risks of Russian retaliation, all of which work to damage the USDollar, and to lift gold.

end

[fullofquestions]

like a terror

[jackrussell]

When I started this thread, wanted to just show the trend, the matter of fact that the 'West' is waning as an empire and its coin of the realm, the US dollar currency is toast and that a good idea is to salt some savings away out of it, gold and silver being a couple strong highlights in this regards.

Not that there won't be a few bumps in the road along the way, as international financiers and fedspeak still hold certain powers of persuasion and manipulation. And knowing that the dollar is in almost $9 trillion worth of trouble, they work to put off the inevitable to later, rather than sooner. Why do today, what you can put off until tomorrow, they do say.

Understanding this, know that Rome did not fall in a day, and neither will the US of A, but falling it is.

Can commodities(things; gold silver, oil, real estate, bread, sugar, coffee, etc) have a bad year pricewise in '07? They should not, but they could have that bump in the road. Starting this century prices of most things have gone up quite a lot in a steady rise, meaning that the purchasing power of the dollar has declined a lot accordingly. This past December, the USD broke a secondary support level against foreign currencies when it sliced under 85 on the index(see kitco.com) falling quickly to 82. Its final lows of historical exchange valuation rests at just about 80 on the index.

An emergency meeting was then called with China (the Asians are among the largest bond holders of our US debt in the world) headed by Paulson(a fedhead, and former goldman sachs top dog for years) and his cronies, suggesting to our Asian friends that we need to ramp up the valuation of the dollar, among other things. No sooner had they boarded the plane, than a dollar ralley began, lifting it back to the current, near 85 level.

So, in answer to the question of whether the natural trend of the demise of the US currency can be interrupted temporarily, that answer is yes.

However, in spite of what any temporary setback can afford, buy real things for your savings on any healthy dips, because be assured that when our foreign creditors discover they don't need us and our US dollar anymore, they will jump out of the bed. You want to be ahead of them when they decide to do this.

[heynow]

Jack, It really is anybodys guess on the gold and silver. Over the years I have bought some (gold and silver have I some).
Let's go back in history. Back in the late seventies and into the early 80's gold prices were very high. Gold was over 800 dollars an ounce. During this time when Susie was still alive she said, "Gold will go to 1000 dollars an ounce and silver won't be too far behind." Yes, I was there and heard her say this with my own ears.
Well, what happened? Gold fell and to give you an idea in 2001 it was 250 dollars an ounce but, it has been rising since then. Sometime last summer it was about 750 dollars an ounce and folks were predicting 1000 dollars an ounce by the end of 2006. Hmmm is Susie's prophesy going to come to pass? With the gold predictions and Susies prophesy I bought a few more ounces. Now, it has fallen to about 650 dollars an ounce. I still think it will eventually hit 1000. Who knows? I did well by buying what I did a few years ago but, 20/20 hindsite I realize now I should have bought more.
Nonetheless, I agree it seems like a solid investment now.

[jackrussell]

Hey, I hear ya. I was in the business of the product back then with Dave Kroopf. I was aware of Sue saying like scenario, and also said if the international financiers could quash the metals run it would be all over and we would fall into a one world money, then mark of the beast. Well, we have not altogether, not quite yet, even 27 years later. But its coming.

With all due respect, I don't consider that to be her prophesy, as she had read it from somewhere else,(Tony and Sue were world reknown plagarizers) the same as you or I or anyone else could have, if we had the freedom to explore outside the cloister of the foundation. But, as Tony and Sue had alleged that God had personally conveyed to them about so many matters, we all blindly accepted that as gospel, and thought it heresy to think or do anything else. I could predict we will have a hurricane here in Florida in the next so many years, and I bet I would be right, does not make me a prophet in this. No, only a basic understanding of the topography, 56 years of life experience, quarter century of residency here, and a lot of reading of what others' much smarter than I have to say to postulate a well educated guess.

But really Hey, ultimately, who knows how worthless our currency will became before it is morphed into the one world money as planned. Stay tuned, stay safe. Regards

[redeemed_9131970]

Something to take a look at for whomsoever is inclined:
www.publicgold.com/pryor (http://www.publicgold.com\pryor)

cp

[tbone_1972]

Thank you CP for the info. It is very interesting. I'm looking into it now.

[brother_d]

...and do you really think hoarding gold and silver will protect you if there is a collapse of the economy as we know it? Should we be collecting canned goods in a bunker too? Maybe short term you'll get relief, but in the long term, your faith will be tested the same as everyone else. We've proven that we're survivors. We'll find a way.

[anchored]

Absolutely, right on brother_d.

There's coming a time when we will neither be able to buy nor sell because of the mark.

The scripture that comes to mind is in Ezekiel 7th chapter.

"They (meaning the nations) shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD:"

I've heard some say bartering will come into play. We can be assured the Lord will provide a way for those who are faithful. And, as you said, our faith will be tested.

Here's an encouraging scripture and is where the faith you spoke of comes in.

"for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." II Timothy.

"Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" Luke

[jackrussell]

Whoa dude,

"...and do you really think hoarding gold and silver will protect you if there is a collapse of the economy as we know it? Should we be collecting canned goods in a bunker too? Maybe short term you'll get relief, but in the long term, your faith will be tested the same as everyone else. We've proven that we're survivors. We'll find a way..."

Do you have any savings, or should I say hoardings? Or do you spend everything every day, with nothing left over for the next?

With hurricanes that have hit Florida recently have seen firsthand many folks that had no preparedness, and those that did. Some short term relief, you bet, I owe that to my family and any others that will listen. And as far as our long term faith to be tested,(of course it will be), does not mean that we should be conducting the test, and what does that have to do with a little streetsmarts? Can you imagine taking a check from Tony Alamo. Not worth the paper it be printed on perhaps. He has left so many hospitals, businesses, etc., holding the bag for unpaid work. Even an entire nation, an evil empire, can leave the good citizens holding the bag.

As we speak, the housing foreclosure rate is escalating because of bad loans. Saving(quality monies) for a rainy day is not unscriptural, and timing is everything. Consider Joseph and the 7 years of plenty and 7 years of famine in Egypt. Yes there will be a way, but taking heed to the aggravating economic factors swirling on the horizon will spare suffering for those who will act early. Just ask Joseph. And there is a time for every season,....

And bro D, and to all whom it may concern,
I wish not to be critical, but only genuinely helpful. I ask that anyone concerned, or not, just to do your homework, I did mine. There is scads of pertinent material available for research and comparative analyses. You will always be glad you did. Studying to be approved, we are all lifetime students, something lost many eons ago on the unvenerable TA who thought himself to be so wise, he became a fool, a fulltime teacher, who had no further need of learning or reproof. Alas, what a pity. TA, with pride like a leviathan, has caused a path of human wreckage not unlike an F5 tornado. TA gathered nuts just for himself, but sincerity and integrity gathers nuts for others. Give a man a fish, and he can eat that day, teach him how to fish and he can eat for a lifetime.

[brother_d]

I wasn't trying to be critical, just prudent. Of course we should look to the future and prepare in any way we can. I just think that everyone should realize that none of these efforts will be totally effective in the event that the current economy collapses. In that event we truly will be forced into an alternative lifestyle if we refuse to conform to the beast. Que sera.

[redeemed_9131970]

Ahem…simply putting forth a business opportunity on this like-minded thread, which given its nature seemed to be an opportune place to share. My intention is not one of persuasion but rather exposure to a venture I’ve personally found of interest, all in the spirit of continuing on.

Since two is better than one, and always remembering that a three-fold cord is not quickly broken, we (Ronnie and I) have become prone to looking at what some might consider to be unconventional opportunities, primarily because we were literally closed-mined for soooo, soooo long during our time at the foundation. Not just closed-mined but completely shut up and away from the growth process of maturing into business savvy adults. Granted, there were a ‘few’ noted exceptions, but we weren’t part of that echelon. So, like it or not, we came out of the foundation (in our forties) severely stunted as to the most elementary of mundane functions, i.e. having a bank account – filling out a deposit slip – budgeting household expenses, etc. Having to maneuver ‘out here’ with two teen aged kids; we were suffering from full-blown culture shock every bit as much as they were, trying valiantly to play it off, as we attempted to shield them from all the evils out here. We discovered the adversary had more tricks up his sleeve than we were initially prepared for, but, thank God, Jesus never fails!

Talk about getting broken in to the real world. I’ll never forget the first time I went to deposit money in the bank, since I just stood there not getting it done, the teller looked at me like I was a forty-something year old oddity (which apparently I was http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif). Mortified, I asked her how it was done, then her expression melted into one of compassion as she showed me how to do it. Boy! Was I ever glad that unschooled embarrassment was forever behind me!

Since then, we‘ve come to realize (for us at least) the importance of checking into whatever options present themselves (within reason) so as not to overlook a potentially God-sent vehicle, as long as we do it prayerfully and tempered by scripture. Thus, we’ve been beneficially broadened in countless ways on our journey through this winsome land.

No arm twisting here, just exposure. Some may see an opportunity, others may see nothing at all; either way, nothing ventured, nothing gained, it’s just a post, not an ultimatum.

cp

[tbone_1972]

<font size="+1">A BIG AMEN TO THAT! PEOPLE HAVE A BETTER CHANCE AT SURVIVAL WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEPEND ON SOMEBODY ELSE TO GIVE YOU A MEASLEY PAYCHECK.

I"D RATHER GO FOR THE GUSTO AND TAKE MY CHANCES, SINK OR SWIM. THAN JUST SIT AROUND WAITING FOR THE NEXT EVENT TO HAPPEN.

THANKS AGAIN CP FOR THE INFORMATION!
GREAT TESTIMONY TOO! tbone</font>

[jackrussell]

http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au3650nyb.html

the link is for the 10 year gold chart. It is at an important juncture here. It appears soon to be heading to plow thru resistance on to higher prices. Another pullback is possible, but not so likely.

Deje Vue, back to the future! Over a quarter century ago inflation and extreme higher gold prices looked set to go out of control coupled to the cold war and the heated mideast scenario back then.

Have we come full circle? Back then perhaps the evil of mankind was not so much that the Lord would allow us to enter a world war and annihilate ourselves. But now we are back. I think it is fair to say that many analysts use gold as a barometer, and things are heating up.

Jim Willey, editor of the 'hat trick newsletter' reiterated back in December (posted that here at the time) that Putins' Russia would take issue with us concerning Iran. Well, just recently Putin voiced Russias' unanimous support of Iran. Cold war revisited, 21st century style??


This thread was set forth mostly to encourage a focus on events as they are unfolding and the corresponding actions and reactions that may be taken to provide some kind of economic safeguard, especially in the event that a weimar(see google searches for history) type condition takes root. Keep your eyes on the Lord, and ears to the g-round.

[jackrussell]

Coming to an end of an age? Paper currency as we know it, will be toast in the not too distant future, vis a ve specially the US buck. The $5 Tony is handing out will be like pennies. Whatta guy!

$700 gold

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au3650nyb.html

[heynow]

732 right now. 750 just around the corner.

[jackrussell]

http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au3650nyb.html

As can be implied by this classic chart set up, gold has finished the consolidation and price absorption of the last spiking leg up, and has begun launch mode for the next leg up. Conservative guesstimates place the gold price at or near $1000 oz upon completion of the next wave and spike.

This next gold rally is only the second in what elliot wave theory stipulates out of three. The third and final surge should take place at a later date, after a steep correction after the approximate $1000 area. The final spike high of the gold price is called the 'manic phase.' It is unclear at this point to what heights that price will ascend to, especially with an intense devaluation of most paper currencies(especially the US dollar) and bond issues ongoing. This final chapter may not culminate until into the next decade(2010). Understand this is just one theory, 'Elliot wave', among many 'theories', but has been tried and tested with much accuracy over the past so many decades. However, it does not take a rocket scientist, to already figure that somebody is doing something funny with the money.

[heynow]

Summer of 2005 it was up to 750 and a lot of folks predicted 1000 by the end of the year (2005). Looking for your opinion on when the magic 1000 is coming.

[jackrussell]

From launch to spike in this, already begun second wave, generally has a shelf life of 6-9 months, so by May '08, however mitigating factors can lengthen the wave to double the time frame(1 1/2 years) to completion until march '09, but the longer the wave generally the higher the altitude. I would opt for the more common shorter timeframe, but who knows, its all guess work based on todays variables, of which, some can change, more or less, with time. Much can be expected, but expect also the unexpected!

[floridian]

Jack how do you really feel about gold?,and the chances of it keeping a high troy ounce price?

[jackrussell]

How go you feel about the prices of the cost of living in the near future? And the purchasing power of the almighty dollar. Strenghtening, or waning?

My personal opinion is that gold, once the mania really catches on, coupled to the fact that it is not encumbered by all the debt attachments and mortgage fiascos yet, that presently strangle the dollars' value has the propensity to reach stratospheric heights in the next few years.

The scripture, "and they shall throw their silver and and gold in the streets" needs to be looked at closely. As typified, early old testament mans' money was elected to be the most useful and precious(of high price) metals (gold/silver) that ran in the veins of the earth. This money accomplished work due to its portability and progressive varied uses,and is eternal since it is the only earthly substance known to be intrinsically eternal (cannot rust or deteriorate), thus so provided the best medium of exchange value (trust no man. let your suretiship be sure).

Through the ages mankind has deviated away from this money to other false mediums of exchange to the chagrin of many civilizations, and their rise and fall. Simply put, when the things of God, and their proper use, are diluted or substituted, the piper shall get paid.

It is this monetary substitution then, as a matter of fact, that will get thrown into the street, as it becomes worthless (see google- weimar inflation), and any essence of a counterfeit money, other than silver and gold, those being without election will get thrown into the street. The 'silver and gold' or 'money' of today has morphed into paper and plastic promises, and signatures of those in ill repute, rabidly facilitated covertly, via digital cyperspace express, and by now is no less than a walking stick of dynamite. And, imho, this whole ungodly, counterfeit system will get thrown in the street, swept under the carpet to make way for the final chapter.

Can even gold and silver come crashing down and be thrown in the streets also. It is conceivable with 21st century technology, and margins trading, and a future type of 'gold' mortgage/insurance like that of the encumbrances that have recently debacled real estate can have the nefarious effects on the value of all precious things and cause them to be thrown in the streets at the time when 'right becomes wrong.'

Remember, God gave sex, and the feel good to make sure we procreate, and that blessing has its place, but the rapist also uses sex, in the most illicit manner. If you can understand this, is why the mark of the beast system can cause even the real gold and silver to eventually be quashed and thrown into the streets by the setting of devaluation thru encumbrances. So why now, own silver and gold? Because, for a time, their value will come back into vogue and should be worth a lot, until that time is over. But trust in Jesus, not in silver or gold.

[dyann]

scrolling up, not too far, I gotta say "Duh"
I think the half hour I spent reading top to bottom gave me a pretty good "feel" on how jack "feels" about gold.

[wilma]

Dyann,
When you get a chance and some time go to the OLD POSTS. It's the thread on the VERY bottom. There are lots of posts there from 2005 and 2006. Tony even allowed a few people from within the group to post on FACTNET....of course, we have now heard from very reliable sources that he was monitoring their EVERY word.
Just wanted to let ya know about those hidden threads.
SG

[jackrussell]

http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au3650nyb.html

Chart has been true to form, gold price now nearing $800!

[heynow]

Gold is screaming again. When it cracks 800 it will probably be on the news. Any stock folks out there? Always curious what Berkshire-Hathaway goes for now.

[jackrussell]

http://www.kitco.com/ind/Lee/oct252007.html

[heynow]

Jack, It reached 800 and I thought it bounce back and forth between 780 and 800 for awhile. It is now 835. Is this the highest price for gold in recorded history? Another question; Is it time to sell?

[jackrussell]

Nothing wrong with trimming the sails from time to time, but this boat is headed out to sea.

[heynow]

Jack, Gold has dipped just below 800 so, didn't sell anything. However, I am not sure if you read this:


The Yellow Streak – Is $1,500 an ounce gold possible? With today’s reckless U.S. fiscal polices and global unrest it seems possible. Now is a great time to grab some $20 St. Gaudens as many believe, and experts have predicted, that gold bullion will reach $1,000 to 1,200 an ounce over the next year.

Plus, as the U.S. dollar continues weaken, I believe gold is the best store of value to protect your assets - your savings - and numismatic gold is even better. Here’s why:

First, the premium $20 St Gaudens are trading over spot metal prices is historically low. In the late 1990’s MS63 $20 St. Gaudens were trading for a 107% premium over spot gold. If that were the case today, MS63 Saints would be selling for $1,610 each! MS64’s, which had a 205% premium, would be $2,370 and MS65’s at 285% premium over spot gold would be trading for $2,995 each! If there is a shortage of $20 St. Gaudens on the market - with demand getting stronger it is likely - today’s historically low premiums will not last.

Also, $20 St. Gaudens move with gold bullion prices. Should gold bullion reach $1,200 an ounce an MS63 certified St. Gaudens, based on today’s numismatic premium, will be selling for $1,595; MS64’s at $1,835 and MS65’s at $2,350. With the continued devaluation of the U.S. dollar, $20 St. Gaudens are a great way to protect your savings.

Limited quantities are available so take advantage of your internet only offering and call 800-359-4255 for Gene Nesheim ext. 219, James Rottman ext. 221, Ron Remmer ext. 220 or myself ext. 274, or e-mail us at info@NACTcoin.com and we will be glad to assist you.

[jackrussell]

This train is right on schedule at the 900 stop,

http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au3650nyb.html

[heynow]

Jack, I think this is it for me. Time for me to get off the train. I will be selling a "little" today and see if they are interested in the rest. A lot of my stuff is PCGS graded. Do you think this will give me a better price?