Psychics Astrologers Horoscopes

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

the psychics are promoted by hollywood and many celebrities. Sorcerors and the like are everywhere worldwide ,people seeking answers from the wrong source the devil spirit realm and the occult.

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

Deuteronomy 18:10-15 a person that makes or uses :
divination , observer of times ,passing thru the fire, enchanter ,witch ,charmer ,consulter with familiar spirits, wizard , necromancer.
"for all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord"

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

another warning by example: Acts 13:8-10
a Sorcerer named Elymas attempted to turn away someone from the faith with astrology .
Apostle Paul called it for what it is : subtility (deceit),mischief(fraud),child of the devil,enemy of all righteousness.

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

false prophets=psychics

[Anonymous (141.157.13.94)]

Do you know that many cults demonize everyone who disagrees with thier own religious teachings, they dehumanize them and consider them slaves to evil, enemies who must be watched carefully, in paranoia of end-times deception, etc.

It must pain you to feel this way.

This site is about harmful groups that disrespect their own members, manipulate others, pressure others to follow strict and legalistic rules, isolate people from family and friends who are not 'strait and narrow', and who venerate specific teachers excessively in sick ways, sapping lots of tithes out of people under pressure of curses from god, etc. That sort of thing. That is cultic sort of religion, it harms the members, manipulates them, gets their money, controls their lives, and preys on people outside the group, sometimes too. Especially when they demonize outsiders. Sometimes such cults try to gain secular worldly power to dominate over unbelievers, theocratically, or through front groups.

Anyhow, thought I'd share.

I do think that some sorcerors, etc., do manipulate, just as some preachers do. It's sad really. The fruit is evil fruit, wouldn't you say? Regardless of whether they say they are Christian or something else?

[mikko (mikko)]

all horoscopes psychics necromancers tarot readers palm readers wizardry sorcery withcraft wicca is NOT of God but of the demonic.
A truely Born Again follower of Lord Jesus Christ will know not to get involved in these things .

[mysteria (mysteria)]

Generally its not a great idea to judge a whole area that is fast becoming a recognised science (parapsychology)There are a few disgraceful charlatans out there who dupe gullible people for money.But so far I've not heard of any who sexually abuse children, as Christian priests and nuns do.Nor do they murder those who disagree with their beliefs.This is happening as we speak in Northern Ireland for example.So much for Christs influence!Evil,like beauty,is in the eye of the beholder.Religions are elitist and divisive. Spirituality transcends the ignorance of those who judge people as evil,just because they hold different views.How very sad for those of you who see everything they don't understand as "demonic or evil"Look into your hearts and ask yourselves why?Blessings to you all!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

[overseas (overseas)]

Quote: Look into your hearts...

Yes I did look into my heart and this is what I found: a desire to conquer the world and make slaves of other people so that I could be lifted up, praised and worshipped. And there is more there...

Then I looked at Jesus and He revealed to me he is God and Son of God, He died and was resurrected and He will judge all people in the end. I still look at Jesus and not into my heart.

[mysteria (mysteria)]

You desire to conquer the world and make slaves of other people so that you could be lifted up, praised and worshipped?you have my deepest sympathy.And I believe slavery is illegal these days.
With respect, Jesus also told his disciples "I will return within your generation".Not a great psychic then.....

[wyoming (wyoming)]

Mysteria:

What Overseas is saying is that without Jesus, man's heart is only evil continually, for which he gave you many examples for which humanity identifies with -- without Jesus Christ. Don't you know that?

[grace2u (grace2u)]

Good Morning Wyoming and Good Evening Overseas!

Just in here for a bit . . . saw Wyoming was in here so I ventured in. Do one of you guys want to address the verse in question here: Matt 24:34 Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass) - - or do you want me to do this?

I'm really trying to limit my time on Factnet and we are in the middle of vacation bible school this week so it is a little hard for me to address it. I'll come back and see if you guys have tackled it in a few days.

Mysteria,

Right back at ya! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

God Bless,

(Message edited by Grace2U on June 22, 2005)

[grace2u (grace2u)]

Overseas,

Wow . . . you are ambitious! With me it is just all about me (without Christ's influence in my life that is . . . which He is in my life). No need to conquer the world but I am ok with everyone treating me like I'm the Queen! LOL!

[wyoming (wyoming)]

I'll take a stab at Matthew 24:34 by looking at that chapter and going to the context for an explanation.

This chapter is talking about the great tribulation and the events leading up to the Second Coming of Christ. [Verse 13 talks about being saved physically; "saved and lost" proponents say it's about losing salvation in Christ. "But the one who endured to the end, it is he who shall be saved." NASV] Verse 31 is when He comes with His elect from the four winds.

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The context here is clear without having to turn to other books and chapters to rightly divide. I think the controversy for which you ask this question is with reference to who "this generation" is. Is it the Jews He is speaking to; the alternate reading in the margin of the NASV is "race", or does the desecration of the Temple, the Tribulation, and the Second coming all take place within the time span of one generation? I'll go with the context.

By the way... you're the queen out here because you have the best attitude in dealing with others.

[grace2u (grace2u)]

Why thank ya my friend! My best to you and yours!

God Bless,

[i_likemyveggies (i_likemyveggies)]

<font color="ff6000"><font face="arial,helvetica">James Kennedy published a great and factual book on this subject. At first glance you think he is advocating astrology, but he is not and he has been critisized by those who did not read the whole book. He is an expert, a leader and a great man and Christian.

Yes, Grace has been that type of poster.
She's getting a little Wingsish these days.

Astrology is a great distraction and a trap.
A clever and unfulfilling deception and dependency. It takes souls away from a person and intimate relationship with Jesus and our Father, by His Spirit.

God does speak to us in signs in the Heavens, throughout history and in current times, but Astrology is demonic and carnal and superstition and advantage taking and extrapalation and fortune telling and divination.

*Pray for those who are convinced that their astrological forecasts are true, that they may come to know Messiah and His leading and His hope for the future.

*Eye has not seen, the ear has not heard and a man cannot imagine in his heart what great things God has in store for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.
Alleluia!

* If you seek Me with all of your heart you will find Me. Seek MY face...

Shalom
(and looking beyond the stars to the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth),
Pepper</font></font>

[wyoming (wyoming)]

Pagans, in essence, worship creation rather than the Creator. This may surprise you, coming from conservative me but... I think astrology is a counterfeit of ministering gifts IF what Bill Gothard teaches regarding "spiritual gifts" is true. When I went through the advanced seminar in Weaton in 1972, the characteristics he presented for each of the spiritual gifts sounded like the same old astrology. I then shared Gothard's materials with a lot of other people. The ones who chose the same spiritual gifts happened to line up with the twelve astrological signs. The seven gifts are preaching, teaching, giving, exhortation, serving, administration, and mercy. It's been years since I've seen James Kennedy's book. Does it say that there are natural phenomenon within God's creation that we don't understand? I seem to have gotten that impression. Bill Gothard also said about the occult that it is defined as venturing outside the barriers that God has allowed us to understand. Could they be no less reality outside of God's creation? Perhaps God want us to walk by faith and not by sight?

[i_likemyveggies (i_likemyveggies)]

<font color="aa00aa"><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="-1">
Howdy Do Mr. Wyoming,
I have been to Bill Gothard seminars as well.
He has some wonderful practical teachings on various areas of the Word.

Satan has been plagerizing God for untold centuries. When he lusted for the
Throne in Heaven and God's creative Rule over the Universe and His Divine Authority, he being a counterfeit even then. He hasn't stopped but someday he will be in Hell which was created for him and his fallen angels. We who have followed, believed Messiah, will know all things as He promised once we are in Heaven with Him.

Wow that was a little spiritual. Yes, I remember him saying that there are things we don't understand and only in part. The mysteries of God and His plans through the ages.

Without faith it is impossible to please God!
Faith is the evidence of things not seen.

The Spirit will lead us into all truth and His interpretation of Scripture is the only true interpretation. If we lack wisdom, we can ask Him, Messiah and he will give it to us liberally.
James, Chapter One.

Have to go for now, but your posts are interesting and mature. If I don't come back for some time, have a wonderful Summer of 2005 as you press close to the Master and transfom into His image.

Have you gone to the Advanced Seminar, is he still doing them? The animal lessons are terrific.
I may not agree with everything he teaches in each area, but for the most part and on some things like forgivness and restoration, I have really enjoyed the ministry.
Are you a cowboy in Wyoming? I would love to visit the amazing mountain ranges there.

Shalom
Pepper</font></font></font>

[i_likemyveggies (i_likemyveggies)]

<font size="-1"><font color="aa00aa"><font face="arial,helvetica">Grace,

Thanks for referencing anything of value or truth.

I love Messiah with all my heart and I have been very effectual in ministry and in the industry for the Kingdom. Why aren't you apologizing for lying about me to Wyoming and why aren't you acknowledging the wealth of information on witchcraft?

I think that objectively speaking there are at least five things you could have had a loving and unity based response to. Suddenly, I am evil because I am speaking truths and will not acquiesce to pressure or insults that are not valid?

What happened to your balance and decorum? The Christian thing for you to do is to apply, believe and express the written word in your thoughts and lifestyle. Do you think it feels loving or edifying to me for you to reject as a tactic of control?

Who is "only preaching love". She is mostly preaching narcissim and she does have the spirit that has been discerned.



Shalom
Pepper</font></font></font>

(Message edited by I_likemyveggies on June 25, 2005)

(Message edited by I_likemyveggies on June 25, 2005)

[i_likemyveggies (i_likemyveggies)]

<font color="119911"><font face="times new roman,times,roman">During Shabbat services the Rabbi kneels and puts his forehead to the floor and says,
"Before you oh Lord, I am nothing."

The Cantor looks at him, thinks it couldn't hurt, and kneels, puts his forehead to the floor, and says,
"Before you oh Lord, I am nothing."

Ben Shapiro in the fifth row is watching this and thinking that it was a pretty good idea, so he goes in the middle of the aisle, kneels and puts his forehead to the floor and says,
"Before you oh Lord, I am nothing."

The Rabbi nudges the Cantor.
"Look who thinks he's nothing!"

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif </font></font>

[wyoming (wyoming)]

Everybody,

Once upon a time I went through a church split where the fight became obvious to me that... perhaps to no one else, that both sides were right... but wrong about each other. In other instances throughout life, I find that folks often accuse each other of what they are guilty of. It can be a way of beating up on yourself because we subconsciously want to be punished for our own guilt. In reverse of that, if you are falsely accused and you have a good conscience about it, you shouldn't allow yourself to be offended. We need to be balanced in our reactions. Are we making clarifications for a matter of record for good understanding, or are we defending our ego. If someone can provoke you to explode with emotion, they have successfully taken control of you. In Christ, we are safe and not offended. As Christians, we should all be on the same side of the battle. If we disagree, I don't have to win an argument. I'll let anyone be wrong if they want to be. It's not my authority or reputation that is at stake. The Lord will have the final judgement in all matters.

These Carmen threads are one of the last places I thought I would ever post.

[grace2u (grace2u)]

Well see Wyoming . . . that's what happens when ya call me a queen - - which I am obviously not, guess I needed humbled. You are right! I'm just so tired of this witch stuff. I'll walk away from the issue with Pepper.

God bless my brother!

[grace2u (grace2u)]

Wyoming,

Do you think a Christian can be under a spell of witchcraft?

(Message edited by Grace2u on June 27, 2005)

[tom_p (tom_p)]

Grace2u - what definition of 'witchcraft' are you folks using, or do you have an agreed-upon definition?

[grace2u (grace2u)]

Tom,

(If I am it is probably Factnet because my test run of trying to post 15 minutes only a day has gone down the tube! - - Glad this was just a test run. . . next week is the real thing!) LOL!

I would be interested in your opinion on this Tom.

God Bless,

(Message edited by grace2u on June 27, 2005)

[tom_p (tom_p)]

grace2U -

I am not clear on what definition is in use, here, and I guess I'm not able to puzzle it out from the posts - looks as if a definition of 'witchcraft' is assumed but not explicit.

Speaking as a Witch/Wiccan myself, I'm getting the impression that the definition used here is quite different from one that a Witch would use. I gather it's mostly or entirely negative, and implies some form of outside control? So presumably, if you are 'under a spell', someone other than yourself is controlling some or all of your actions. (Other than internet time, of course - I suspect that's more of an addiction...... ;o) )

Well, I think that people who are 'under a spell' would tend to be somewhat fanatical, unable to seen alternative positions, unable to consider other points of view - because they would not be allowed to do so by who or whatever controls them. Such people would have a tough time doing more than asserting a position, simply because they would be unable to question their own ideas - again, not allowed to.

You don't sound 'spell-bound' to me. Who would have put a spell on you, anyway?

[grace2u (grace2u)]

Well Tom_P,

I'm not used to talking to a wiccan but the situation consists of Christians calling other people who profess to be a Christian either: 1) a witch (an imposter who professes to be a Christian but is really a wolf in sheep's clothing [saying they are something that they are not]) or 2) having a form of witchcraft as defined by the bible:

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

2Ch 33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Act 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

Act 8:11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

(Message edited by Grace2u on June 27, 2005)

[tom_p (tom_p)]

I thought Christians believed that 'sorcery' and so forth was either 'vain observance' or action of your Devil? I didn't think that sort of thing could have an effect on a Christian, according to dogma. Presumably, you can't be laid under a 'spell' of any sort unless you choose to be, and you must be aware of the 'spell' in order to choose to allow it to take action. Seems pretty slippery, to me - how can someone who has never met you know something about you that you don't, especially when that something is a process you must have voluntarily and knowingly participated in in the first place?

BTW, are your quotes from King James version? Lovely language, but James had a real thing for what he believed was witchcraft - had a lot of stuff about it put in the translation that wasn't in the original, as I recall.

[grace2u (grace2u)]

Tom,

Yes, it was the King James Version.

Please understand that Christianity is not about hate. It is about the greatest love there ever was.

(Message edited by Grace2u on June 27, 2005)

[wyoming (wyoming)]

I wouldn't want to get involved in the kind of dialog that has occured above. I got curious and went over to look at the Carman threads. This is the worst thing I have seen on FactNet and it should never have happened among Christians. You should all be ashambed for being sucked into it. The display has been a stumbling block for any non-Christians to see folks mis-representing Christianity.

That's as far as I'll go with this.

[yaakov (yaakov)]

IMO, the worst stuff on Factnet were Trent's posts.

The Carmen threads seem tame and actually, fairly normal to me.

[tom_p (tom_p)]

Grace2u -

No problems. I stumbled into this thread because I noticed the word 'witchcraft' being casually bandied about. You might do the same if you saw 'christian ritual' bandied about in a thread, maybe. I didn't mean to stir anything up, just wanted to know what was going on.

"But please, understand, that Christianity is not about hate. It is about the greatest love there ever was."

Grace, people who called themselves Christians have shot at me, stabbed me, beat me up, fired me from jobs because of my faith, driven me from homes because of my faith, called anonymous death threats in, killed my pets and even (once) burned a cross into my lawn with gasoline. (I thought that was pretty original, actually, but darned dangerous.) All because I was different from them and they didn't want to understand that difference, just snuff it out. I'd call that a pretty limited understanding of the love of their god. Some Christians are about hate, or anger. I think those Christians are mostly about fear.

I've known some Christians who were, in my opinion, entitled to the name. I've known a good many who value an open heart and honest love of their fellows over dogma or burning issues of "who's right". Those are the Christians I can appreciate, in part because they leave judging to Deity and just accept people for what they are. The Christians I love aren't afraid to love me. To me, that's what Christianity is about. Or Islam, or Judaism, or Buddhism, or Hinduism, or Wicca. Not to judge, just to do the best we can with what we've been given in the time we have, and honor Deity which gives us such bounty.

Still and all, if you're going to talk about witchcraft, seems to me the best thing to do is ... ask a Witch.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

Blessed Be

[tom_p (tom_p)]

i_likemyveggies -

I'm not sure Grace2u was accusing you of anything, or expressing concern. You'd know that better than I, maybe. I just wanted to be clear about this 'witchcraft' term I saw being tossed around.

Too often I see people talking about 'witchcraft' who don't know anything about Wicca or any other Pagan spirituality except such popular propaganda as they were taught. I sometimes inquire about it, and, if they are open to understanding, offer discussion. If not, then I leave them alone. I reckon you'd prefer that, so no problem.

I'm glad you like your veggies, even the ones you haven't tried. Hope you are open to learning about other things besides veggies. In any case,
Blessed Be

[i_likemyveggies (i_likemyveggies)]

<font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">Tom,

I am sorry you were so hurt. Wow, oi, what a legacy of chaos.
If all of that is true, you have suffered and I wish you healing and love for your wounds.

I do know some information and have read a number of books specifically on Wicca. My younger sister was involved for several years. She cursed her brother, (different mothers/different marriage etc) to a violent death, using pentagrams and ritual and so on. She was very bitter and basically homicidal and used witchcraft to express her hatred and violence. We did not grow up together, but we became close when she gave her life to Christ and came to live with me for a few years. I know of other witches who have been murderous and spiritually and societally violent towards Christians and others that they feel have "crossed" them. It is hard to believe that you had death threats from Christians that is completely wrong!

Badness is in many people and has many forms.
Jesus said, "murder, theft and adultery is in the heart of every man".
We need Him and His transforming power and grace knowing that.

I do believe that Jesus, Messiah is the only true God and that all religions or practices don't lead to Him. I base this on His Words and the Old and New Testaments. History and archeology and His miracles past and present. I had a large tumor supernaturally disappear, it was the size of a grapefruit. Amazing!!!


I so sincerely wish those things did not happen to you. There are things in my past where I have suffered. I was kindnapped and raped by a close friend's brother who was giving me a ride home and I had met him only that night briefly, and I was molested by a cousin in some of my early years. Jews of course have suffered horrendous things and still struggle with Anti-Semitism.

It can seem preachy, even to me when others say it to me, "you have to forgive those who have hurt you and trust God to deal with them now or at the end of time". It hurts us biochemically and spiritually not to forgive, but it is very very hard in some cases.

I hope for you a new relationship with Christianity and most of all with the Christ who loves you and me so profoundly.

Shalom
Pepper</font></font></font>

<font color="aa00aa"><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="-1">If you respond I won't be around this website or any of the threads after today,
I am doing something new and want to be free of all the malice and embattlement.
That looks nicer!
Purple and blue, instead of carrot orange...</font></font></font>

(Message edited by I_likemyveggies on June 25, 2005)

[grace2u (grace2u)]

Wyoming,

Thank you for your wisdom! You don't know how much I appreciate you!

Tom,

I too am sorry for what has happened to you. Just know that what has happened to you is not "true" Christianity.

(Message edited by Grace2u on June 27, 2005)

[i_likemyveggies (i_likemyveggies)]

<font face="arial,helvetica"><font color="ff6000"><font size="-1">You are a jerk, GraceCincoTruthBeautyHillbilly.
My intention was not to make you look bad whatsoever. Do you follow the Holy Spirit, ever?

You are really accusing and judging me.
You are self righteous and dishonest and again a jerk.
You throw the satan thing around like a scapegoat to get you off the hook.

You weren't "sucked into" anything, you kept showing up and presenting you questions and your opinions. When did you become the FactNet victim?
Are you taking on a mantle?

Thank you for apologies, humility and the love and righteous that you preach extended to me ethically. What happened to you in the past two weeks? Don't try to blame me.
Oi!

<u>Your attitude</u> is not true Christianity.
You are disrespecting ethics and morals and the leading of the Spirit. Garner some attention and pity from that.

I am not devoted to Messiah because I am blunt? There is a book titled, <u>Don't Let the Jerks Get the Best of You</u>, by Dr. Paul Meier read it someday and you will learn something you obviously need to know.
Do Calvinists believe in Christian psychotherapy?

Thank you for demonstrating mature love.
I hope people don't get sucked into your controls and outbursts. Isn't it a sin to lie? You <u>had to</u> go through this? Had to? Did you get a doctrate in Pity Phd? Oi Vey!
Your welcome for the warmth and humor and ministry that were extened to you.
Where your malice is coming from, only Messiah knows.

I am glad, that my last post is honest enough to call you a jerk.

Shalom
Pepper</font></font></font>

[i_likemyveggies (i_likemyveggies)]

<font color="0000ff"><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="-1">Wyoming,

I wish that Grace would not have attacked me to you. I do not know where she is coming from and I will just not care. I was thinking of what Bill Gothard teaches on "taking up or picking up of offenses against another person". She is obviously trying to suck you into something, and I can't determine why. I am not a guy, I am not chasing anyone and I stand on my convictions and my relationship with Messiah and His Spirit

You are a blessing. I enjoyed speaking with you and engaging in productive fellowship just for a moment. I have decided I would rather have my last post be to a normal Christian, who has pertinent and thoughtful things to say.
Mazl Tov!

Shalom
Pepper</font></font></font>

(Message edited by I_likemyveggies on June 25, 2005)

[wyoming (wyoming)]

Pepper:

Any junior high school kid who reads the last posts between you and Grace, will see that she is expressing humility and that your post if full of name-calling insults that are not socially acceptable among any class of peoples. Jesus and the apostles didn't talk that way.

On FactNet many of the folks are emboldened through the printed word because they do not meet face to face. If you are inclined to call somebody a jerk, you might have second thoughts in considering the unpleasantness of getting a punch in the nose. Pepper, the characterizations you use in this brief encounter with someone you really don't know have very little liklihood of being a valid judgement upon the person.

Bill Gothard has a new seminar on anger resolution; not anger management, because you want to resolve it. The capstone of the seminar is devoted to Blessings and Cursings and has to do with the power of the words we use when addressing one another. If you raise your kids or your wife calling them stupid or jerk, they will be stupid or a jerk because, by your judgement they are supposed to be stupid. Words can destroy the other person -- like murder. If you want others to be successful, you should offer them words of blessing. Blessings are powerful and it really works. To conceptualize, for starters, consider the wording of what is commonly known as the benediction, "The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face to shine upon you. The Lord lift up his countenance and be gracious unto you and give you peace, etc." Do you get the idea?

A blessing in praise of you: You are very knowledgable and you have the capacity to be helpful to others. I'd like to see you channel the gifts God has given you to build people up. You might try to search yourself, as Grace has, in examining your role in what has happened here in the past couple of days.

The volumn (not just volume) of writing must have consumed your lives. (There's a life, outside of FActNet.) The few compliments you gave Grace in your last post, you immediately negated. Though the words are important, more important is what motivated you to use those words. The most prominent thing I see [thank you, Bill Gothard] is anger and defensiveness which could have a root cause of a lack of self esteem. Your offense could be a protective defense for a lack of self esteem from others beating you down in you past, or a lack of resolution of guilt. You know these things and I don't know any more about you than what we've been exposed to for the past two days. You'll have to be your own doctor as you pray for answers. I have no commandments for you or anyone else, as I would not want you to command others but to lead them to the truth that they can see for themselves. Let me know of your successes throughout your future. Remember my post about not having to win an argument.

It appears that this conflict has come to a resolution for which I am thankful, and which really makes my day on this my 62nd birthday.

May the Lord bless you and keep you,

Mazl Tov! &amp; Shalom

Alan

(Message edited by Wyoming on June 25, 2005)

[godchild (godchild)]

"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Me, you, everyone. "May the Lord watch between me and thee as we are absent one from the other."

I agree with much but not all of what Wyoming has stated. Yes, Factnet can become an addiction of sorts, but some are blessed by God to have this place to share and witness for Christ.

i_likemyveggies, can I ask a personal question? Are you a Seventh Day Adventist or a Jehovah Witness? Just curious about your use of certain terms in your posts.

[godchild (godchild)]

Please don't misunderstand my posting on this thread. I wanted to share some good news. I am visiting my daughter far away from my own home. We were having a discussion about our walk with God and His constant expressions of love for us which we are amazed by. I noticed upon coming to her home there are no longer any items which she used before her baptism into the body of Christ. Please bear with me:
For many years my daughter dabbled in such things as oiuga boards, those little rocks that are thrown, horoscopes, numerology, crystals, and a looking glass. After her baptism she told me she was having nightmares. I told her to remove all those things immediately from her home even if she considered them a harmless pasttime. She removed them. Last night when I mentioned it she said to me with a startled expression on her face, "I haven't had nightmares since then." The story doesn't end there. My granddaughter's cat disappeared one week ago. Last night we were telling my grandson, 6 years old, to come in as it was 10 p.m.. Suddenly he hollered excitedly, "Mom, it's miracle." She ran out to see what the fuss was about and they shortly came in with him carrying the lost cat. It was truly a Miracle for this little family. I thank God and praise Him for His continued watching over them all. My granddaughter's cat is named Miracle. God is faithful!

[wyoming (wyoming)]

godchild:

Veggie, or Pepper, is a convert from Judaism. In her last posts, she was packing for a trip to the mainland to be involved in a church planting.

Earlier today I posted on the Once Saved, Always Save thread, <font color="0000ff">To some it can be a ministry to be in here. It's like doing battle [among Christians!]. Those who truly minister need our prayers.</font>

(Message edited by wyoming on July 02, 2005)

[devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666)]

I'm curious as to how many posters here have actually had any experience with magick, psychic power, (yes, they are different forces), etc? I see a lot of Bible passages, but all pretty much condemn any sort of power, be it magick, psychic ability, using foci, necromancy, etc, unless its from the Christian/Jewish god. Also, many posters here mention the usage of rituals and pentagrams, and "Wicca". I'd like to dispel this, as not all who have access to magick or psychic abilities use rituals, (I particularly despise rituals), nor symbols or the like. For those like I, its more of an act of will.

I don't mean my post as an attack, I'm just curious as to the experience with "the occult" of the posters here. Most seem to be Christians condmenming such practices, not that I have anything against Christians, I just noticed this trend.

As for myself, I do have experience with magick, channeling chi, and psychic power. I do not use foci such as oija boards, crystals, etc. I don't bother with tarrot cards, nor do I consult the dead for possible information of the future. Any vision of the possible future I have comes in a split second, usually a dream.

[wyoming (wyoming)]

Deuteronomy 18:9-12

"When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee."

[devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666)]

My question is asking for personal experiences, not Bible quotes. I'm asking if anyone here, other than me, has ACTUALLY had PERSONAL experience with the occult, magick, psychic power, etc.

[zionwarrior (zionwarrior)]

I don't play with that mess.

[godchild (godchild)]

devilsad, my daughter was having problems with nightmares. I told her to get all of the junk linked to what she considered a hobby; tarot cards, one of those big glass balls, crystals, throwing rocks(don't know what they call them), etc., out of her house. The nightmares stopped. Was it coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not! Was it worth it. I would say so.

I heard a preview for Sylvia Brown's weekly visit to the Montel Williams show. I like Montel but his interest in what she does is disturbing, to say the least. This woman has written several books about talking to the dead, angels, etc.. So now she is rich. Getting rich is not the problem. Getting rich from the pain of others is.
Anyway, her comment on the preview shows how distant this woman is from God and His teachings. She said, "People don't know what power evil has in their passing." She should pick up a Bible some time, instead of trusting in her own abilities. Yes, some people can see things others don't. But if they use them for anything other than glorifying God, no good can come of it. That is the power of Satan. That is why the Bible warns us to avoid such things.

[devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666)]

Zion Warrior,

If you have no experience with such matters, then at least don't knock it until you try it. If you don't wish to, then don't bother others for doing so.

God's Child,

Not all who dabble or use such powers need foci like crytstal balls, tarot cards, etc. I personally use emotion, concentration, and chi.

As for the nightmares, it might be linked to the foci, it might not be. But if getting rid of them helped them stop for your daughter, then all the better.

Talking to the dead, angels, etc...how old. Talking to the dead is something my family has done, inadverdantly, for at least a few generations now. Not always through oija boards either. Sometimes the desceased in question was a family memeber who had recently died.

Talking to "angels"...funny, the usual depiction of an angel is the spitting image of a genasi, a Sumerian demon. But never mind that...

Actually, on the subject of holy texts and their views of magick and the occult, the Buddha had actually warned his followers not to focus to much on any psychic abilities they might develope on the road to enlightenment. Such would create an attachment and farther delay them from achieving release from suffering. But he did recognize that such powers exists, and, rather than demonizing them out right, just warned his followers not to obsess over them.

Oh, and what's wrong with using latent abilities for my own gain? Doesn't mean I use them to wreak havoc in the world, just make my life more interesting and enjoyable. Why would this "god" be so intent on recieving glory? That make it look rather human with a need to be praised.

[wyoming (wyoming)]

I approached Bill Gothard at the Institute in Basic Life Principals seminar in Long Beach about 25 years ago and told him that when I learned his material on Spiritual Gifts at the advanced Seminar, it sounded to me like the old astrology and that either astrology is a counterfeit of spiritual gifts - leaving God out, or that he is teaching us neo-astrology. I told him how I used his material with Christians and non-Christians and when they guessed their gift, there was usually a coincidence of the gifts being alligned with the astrological signs. If I knew one about them I could predict the other and it was almost always correct. [The seminar also had some discussion on difficulty in discovering your gift.] Gothard listened but had no response. Elsewhere, in the basic seminar, Gothard describes the occult as phenomonon within God's creation, that God does not want us to delve into. He used the analogy of God putting us into a play pen and telling us that this is the realm we are restricted to and to not venture outside.

Prophesy - Gemini
Giving - Leo
Teaching - Aquarius, Virgo
Serving - Taurus, Sagitarius
Exhortation - Aries, Scorpio
Administration - Libra, Capricorn
Mercy/Empathy - Cancer, Pisces

It is best that I not get into this any further. It is best that we walk by faith and not by sight. I have shared this information with an author of a book that does a takeoff on Bill Gothards material but they don't like hearing it because it pops their balloon.

[tesslynn (tesslynn)]

Don’t askclaudia.com psychic/spiritualist. Here’s a word of advice. 3
If you are thinking of ever having a reading done by Claudia, po box 1257 Gilmer, TX 75644, I’d think twice about it. I think she is a fraud too. My best friend Christy had a reading done by her about love and health. All she did in the reading for my friend was put her down. She didn’t help her at all. Never once did she apologize to my friend for the things she said. She told my friend she was nothing men wanted to love and be with. Claudia said she learned a long time ago that when a guy looks at you they are only being friendly or nice, so it was all in my friend's head that a guy liked her, and implied they never did. (Claudia doesn’t understand that looking at my friend is all those guys are capable of doing). She said my friend had to work on herself to become what men want to love and be with, was needy and intense and scaring men away. She said my friend wasn’t willing to be friends, when it was the guys who never were. She said my friend had to be honest with herself about being nothing men wanted to be with or love, and said she expected too much from guys. She told my friend it was her fault when she got hurt for having it in her head they liked her just cuz they looked at her, when they didn’t like her in the first place, but if they did she scared them away with her intensity. She said my friend was needy and didn’t want to be around her because of that. She didn’t know my friend’s situations to be saying that stuff. (She also told my friend she should try the personal ads because she had fun with them. Well, my friend did try them, and those guys wanted nothing to do with my friend when they saw her picture, because she wasn't what they expected in looks. If she didn't look right, they wanted nothing to do with her. Yes they are the ones who expect too much. They wanted nothing to do with my friend even as friends. First of all that stuff about my friend isn’t true at all. She just gets treated badly by guys all the time, no matter how nice she is to them. They are just cowards and too immature to have a relationship with a girl. My friend just never had any luck finding a decent guy, never dated or had a boyfriend. Claudia is 51 and was married 25 years and then was with someone else. After she told my friend rejection isn’t easy to take but is apart of life she told her how this new person came along. (Fist she said my friend shouldn’t take rejection personally, then she said it was her fault when she was because she was the things I mentioned.) That was really mean, when Claudia has no idea what it’s like to be alone, rejected by guys, or hurt, everyday of your life and never have a romantic experience, still at 35, and how that hurts. She had no business saying that stuff to my friend when my friend just wanted some of what Claudia had for her whole life, which was nothing but love and being with someone. My friend knows nothing about that, and that’s all Claudia knows. Love is a part of life too, and Claudia knows that better than rejection, loneliness, or anything else like my friend did. We made comments to let Claudia know how much the stuff she told my friend bothered and affected her everyday of her life, and how she got that in her head and really made her feel bad about herself. But Claudia didn’t care. All she did was accuse my friend of harassing her and didn’t believe I, Tessie, didn’t exist. My friend went to her with the hopes she could help her and all she got was this, and nonsense reasons about her health problems and why she never found anybody, and put down. I don’t know how these psychics can get away with saying that stuff. She just went on her merry way, not caring how the stuff she said constantly and continuously bothered my friend, and never once apologized to her. I don’t know why it’s OK for these psychics to say things like that to people and not OK to say anything to them about it. Then she said my friend had breathing problems because she didn’t enjoy her life and it would go away if she did something fun. If that were true, everyone who had breathing conditions could just do that and heal and never take medicine. Then she talks about emotions, but she doesn’t think, care, or understand how the stuff she told my friend affected her emotionally in certain situations, or how bad it made her feel. Then she has this thing how to get the most from your reading, like my friend had said, ‘too bad I didn’t get the most from it.’ She didn’t help my friend or say one positive/helpful thing at all. She just cut her down. So, if anyone is thinking about having a reading done by her, I’d think twice about it. She just causes people emotional distress.
Tessie

[sharon (sharon)]

tesslynn... It is sad that some people take advantage of those they go to them for help. There are many people like that in the world. But this one sounds stupid as usually they tell people things they want to hear to keep them coming back. She may have done your friend a service as God showed her the real person and now she knows never to spend another penny on that woman. Not many people get to see into someones real soul and your friend did get to see what this woman was. I have a friend who spent a fortune before she found out the truth. Tell your friend she did not have to spend thousands of dollars to discover that this woman is a fraud. God was watching out for her, and showed her the truth.

[time4time (time4time)]

I wonder if our modern interpretation of what the Biblical perspective on this type of thing is slightly misguided. From my understanding, it was astrology that first brought the wise men to Jesus. Casting lots, a practice that is now commonly associated with either gambling or sections of the occult (both considered 'evil' by most Christians) was a common practice used to make a number of important decisions in the Bible. I am not looking for an argument, just a discussion. Any thoughts?

[julia (julia)]

I agree we are all aware of the moon and it's influence on the tide,as humans we are composed of a large amount of water,I know as a woman the moon influences me on a monthly basis,if the moon influences this much what's to say the sun and planets don't have influence,I have had experience with tarot, astrology and many visions as a non Christian and also as a Christian I love The Lord Jesus Christ and I am bought by His love saved by His Grace,but I'm not so narrowminded to believe the stars don't influence us,I agree there is something in the wise men following the stars to Jesus and I wouldn't start to look to the stars for my future or set up an astrologer as an absolute truth because God being the Creator is able to easily change the course of any star at His Will,these are my thoughts on the subject. Also I am curious to find out about the quaballah because it is a Jewish concept and I am interested to see if there is any truth in it,as I currently understand it it is a picture of the tree of life from which the tarot was created which way back when was in turn created by a Christian monk in order to teach the gospel as many couldn't read,now it is being used for divination and superstitious practices ,I am interested if anyone else knows any more about this whole subject and wants to discuss it inteligently without freaking out about superstitious heee haaa that people just belive without questioning

[sharon (sharon)]

time4time..casting lots sounds like gambling. I have just recently discovered the evils of gambling. I do not have a thing with gambling myself but I have a friend who has lost everything including her home and self respect. I also get that since they were gambling for someones stuff who was nailed to a cross that gambling may not have been their biggest problem.
Before I was saved I went to a fortune teller and was shown that she had a gift, a real honest to goodness gift. Now I see that folks never would return if they did not see a reason to have faith in their fortune tellers and such. But all I can say now is I did not hear of Jesus gambling and going to fortune tellers, I do not think he had his chart done nor cards read. Satan did not need a weegee board to talk to him and I do not think he chanted RaRa to meditate. That said I have been wrong many times in the past but I think for now I will just follow his example. That these things work is something I believe, that they are good for us I do not believe.

[arron (arron)]

horascopea and astrology is of the devil as are physics.

[julia (julia)]

I hear you Sharon I lost a lot of money gambling but as far as astrology and tarot I said before what I thought and I think a lot of what we understand about it is suprstitious grounded on suspicion and ignorance I would like to be enlightened enough so perhaps I will get the opportunity to witness brightly about what I understand not just say it's of the devil arron but be able to explain with inteligence,many will astrologers will be outside the gates of heaven who's gonna save them??? Anyway I heard medicine actually means witchcraft??? Blessings in Christ Julia

[devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666)]

Aaron,

You probably haven't a bit of psychic talent availible to you, nor have you actually used such abilities before I take it. If you had, then you might not be so willing to demonize it. Psychic ability is simply put: the ability to influence the surrounding enviornment via will alone. Magick is much the same way. The Miss Cleo kind of "psychic" is nothing more than a person putting on a show, possibly with some talent, as I've met tarot card readers with some actual skill.

Julia,

Divination, which is the kind of field of magick and occult studies that astrology and tarot would fall under, is a common field of study in all cultures. Some people try to divine the future through formal rituals invoking God, such as Nostrodumas, some invoke spirits of the dead-Necromancy, others simply "see" future events-clairvoyance. Clairvoyance, in this sense, is erratic, and unpredictable, and almost never under the full control of the person with that gift. They just have that "feeling" or a dream that comes to pass later.

Most "magick" medicines are simply herbal remedies, akin to natural healing supplements that most people get in the local supermarket like green tea. It's just of the old European folk traditions.

[arron (arron)]

i know that physic is of the devil and the bible teaches me i am not to mess with those who do such

[julia (julia)]

Yes arron U stick to your guns buddy blessings in Christ Julia

Devils advocate any rebellion is classed as witchcraft I don't think it was only herbal medicine but also the kind we have in hospitals. That all came about when we began not 2 have faith 2 b able 2 b healed by God= rebellion? (to be extreme)U know some people actually do have dreams that tell em stuff that will happen in da future I had dreams b4 I was saved that came true but yeah I agree many do the show thing and are just really stabbing in the dark and even if they do have clues if they're not comming from the right place they could be speaking doom into your life. Much clairvoyance I've seen is erratic and based on superstition. Do U know the origin of tarot? Bcause i have heard and it sits right that a Christian monk made them up 2 teach those that couldn't read the bible? and they were derived from the quaballah(a Jewish tool of learningof the tree of life)all I see when I try to look it up myself is the golden dawn shady stuff that really makes no sense,golden dawn as far as I'm concerned belongs to Jesus Christ and our Kingdom in Him Blessings Julia

[julia (julia)]

Also people can only have the power U give them in your life i.e. if they tell you so and so is gonna happen and U feed into it it may just well b the case that event actually does happen but only because U have alligned your will to the cause that you've been programmed to believe. This is why we pray your Will be done because we don't understand of ourselves which way to go because we're all self centred and delusional(to some extent) as soon as we have a bit of stability we feel it's solid ground until something else happens and we're on our butt again. Example is also advertising how we r indoctrinated by it and we start to believe it,so Christianity 4 me is to be reconditioned into Him into the only reality that will last 4 ever Blessings in Christ Julia

[devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666)]

Aaron,

Your post assumes that you "choose" to have an inborn psychic ability. It's not a choice. You are either born with some latent talent already active, that happens without you even being aware of it, or you don't. I speak from experience. Having such doesn't make me evil, it simply means I've been able to do withing with an act of will that normally wouldn't have happened otherwise, and that's when I was aware such things were happening. Most of the time, is was subconscious, a reflex really, much like how you might yawn when first waking up or search new surroundings with your eyes for something you recognize.

Julia,

any rebellion is classed as witchcraft I don't think it was only herbal medicine but also the kind we have in hospitals.

Herbal remedies are not evil. They are simply using plants for the chemical properties they have within them to help promote the body's natural ability to heal itself. The European folk traditions centered around using herbs basically gave a mystic to this process. As for all forms of rebellion being "witch craft", could you please define what you mean when you say "witch craft"? I know of differing definitions of the term, but in the context of how you used it, I'm honestly confused as to what you mean by it.

As for clarvioyence, all experiences I've personally had with such a power never used tarots or any foci. They simply were images that appeared in my head, usually in the form of a dream or a flash. I don't have any control over them, they just come and go.

As for tarots, I haven't really studied up on the origins of that particular foci. But that's the purpose they serve, they serve as a focus for divination, but are not necessary for it.

As for following a person's prophecy, that's what generally happens a lot. It's why I'm skeptical of so many "psychics". Most people limit the scope of psychic ability to reading tarot cards, (which isn't really psychic as it is more of a magick based practice).

Psychic abilities tend to fall into the following general fields:

Psychokinesis:-basically, moving or manipulating matter with will alone. Another commonly associated term, telekinesis.

Psychometabolism-the ability to influence the physical being, i.e., the body, through will alnoe, usually speeding up healing processes, ignoring pain, etc. This is mostly a form of trances a person can train themselves into, but some of it is genuinely psychic ability. Also, the ability to channel "chi" could be considered a psychic ability under this category as well, but it can also be considered psychokinesis as well.

Clairvoyance-the ability to learn information that is normally not at your dispossal, this can be anything from being able to detect "ghosts" and the psychic scars left upon a place that has a horrible history to being able to find information about someone by handling a personal effect of theirs to actually seeing possible future events or even events happening in real time somewhere else, i.e., remote viewing.

Telepathy-the ability to send and recieve information through will alone. This can take the form of reading surface emotions, hearing what a person is saying in your own language, even if they are not speaking that language, (for example, my brother heard two men speaking in Korean, but he heard the conversation in English, and when he commented on what the two gentlemen were saying, they asked him where he learned Korean), to even inducing a false sensory imput or a hallucination in another person.

Magick, on the other hand, is more general than that, but tends to call upon energy latent within the area surrounding the practicioner for the desired effect, or from a higher power, in the case of a Wiccan.

[zara_z (zara_z)]

Hello http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif, well, I must say, with the exception of people like devilsad, I am quite disappointed with the lack of understanding that I see here.
I do not come here to argue or make trouble, but I speak as a pagan priestess, and I say that just because people like myself do not follow the teachings of christianity does not make us evil. The idea of 'the devil' is purely a christian one, and did you know that the names christianity has chosen for its 'devil' are actually borrowed from paganism etc?
Paganism and witchcraft have also been around much much longer than christianity has. Out of the belief systems, christianity is one of the youngest.
People in this day in age should be growing together, not apart, and a lack of understanding is what keeps us apart.
I hope that anyone reading this takes the time to get to know a pagan/psychic/witch and/or their beliefs and they'll soon see that we are not evil nor do we worship evil or 'the devil in disguise'.
Thank you for taking the time to read my post.
Blessed be,
Zara

[julia (julia)]

I thought I made quite a lot of sense in fact I know I did so I won't get my back up there. As far as you saying Christianity is the youngest religion,in actual fact it's not,The Lord was around before the beginning of time and I don't even need scripture to back that up I just know.through Him all things were made and there's nothing that wasn't made through Him I was a witch for a time and I muct admit you r very shallow people who live their lives around a set of rituals that just come down to hocus pocus superstition. You not following Christianity doesn't make you evil but it does make you unenlightened and unsaved so when the resurection happens you won't be ther and that's a shame. I hope you will come across a Christian that will impact you so you will change your mind and heart most importantly because unless you establish avery real foundation with Him when the floods and famine come you will be lost on your deathbed you will be lost. I'm not talking about a head knowledge of Him but an experience of the heart an experience of transformation by experiencing His death and resurection after you have such an experience no amount of arguing can dissuade you from the fact He is real the ressurection is real and you do need him to stand before The father in your stead Blessings in Christ Julia

[zara_z (zara_z)]

Julia,
I respect your right to have an opinion, but in all seriousness do you still believe the earth is flat?
Or that the earth is in fact only 6000 years old?
what proof do you have that the God you believe in does indeed exist?
And how do you know indeed that the God you worship is in fact what you believe him to be? Do you have any real proof, any proof other than what is written in a book by MAN?
Again, I do not intend to argue or offend but I'm curious.
As to converting myself, rest assured that will never happen. I had a taste of christianity earlier in my life and to be perfectly honest it was the worst time of my life, I was never more depressed or unhappy.
My life improved again after I returned to the pagan way and I couldn't be happier.
You refer to witches living with hocus pocus and superstition. Well, I don't know what kind of witch you were but the kind of witch I am is not like that.
Nor can you describe us as unenlightened or shallow. Why? Because by doing so is acting this exact way!
I and people like myself accept all beliefs and people's right to believe as they choose, and we do not try to force our beliefs on people. Nor do we believe that people who believe different to us are going to 'hell', as christians tend to believe.
Now having been involved in christianity once I know why you feel the need to convert people as you believe that all people who are not christians are on the side of 'the devil' and are going to hell whether they know it or not.

This is not true, there is no hell, the hell of fire and brimstone does not exist. If you ask, how can I say this, how am I confident enough to say this?
Through time and learning. No further explanations needed.
I find it odd that you can seemingly epitomize narrowmindedness whilst accusing others of it.
Thankyou for your timehttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Zara

[julia (julia)]

Zara I was into tarot reading astrology numerology reading peoples auras ouigy boards and all that, I say it is shallow because I have found a stronger power in Christ.I know without a shadow of a doubt he is real because i have met Him and I have caught a few glimpses of heaven and know that is real too. I have been in hell spiritually and that was bad enough for me I don't need proof hell is an actual place with fire and brimstone I just believe it. To have an experience of the Christ is a powerful thing not many have true and lasting experiences but when you do you cannot help but be changed. His presence then becomes real it is beyond any argument or any flighty experience one may have whilst meditating for example and His is a powerful presence in which noone can can stand unless you are washed by His blood. If I sound in any way to be echoing the words in the bible it is because they are true,through my own experience I have found them to be so. I only started to believe the bible once I had my experience of Jesus Christ myself before that it didn't make sense. I am curious to hear what noble truths you have found in your time and learning if you are willing to share i am all ears In Christ Julia

[zara_z (zara_z)]

Like you, I have had experiences, spiritual experiences, which have strengthened my own beliefs.
One experience which might surprise you was a near death experience. I actually left my body and started on my way out and onwards. Cliched and stupid as this may sound there was the whole 'light at the end of the tunnel' experience, and I remember walking towards this area of beautiful, peaceful, wonderful light and I longed with all my heart and soul to be there. Then someone came and picked me up, didn't say anything but I knew that what they wanted to communicate was 'it isn't time yet' and then carried me back away from there to my sore and aching body.
Now this happened recently, and I was, as I am now, pagan. Now if as a pagan I am destined to go to hell, then why did I find myself headed towards a place that seemed to look and feel more like you would describe heaven?

Curious to hear your thoughts as to to this,
Zara

[julia (julia)]

Dear Zara
It's obvious to me you are still searching otherwise you wouldn't still be asking questions. To answer you I will lean on my forefathers and echo some of their wisdom lined up with my own experiences. The devil disguises himself as an angel of light he will show you a heap of really beautiful experiences and make you believe you will be a part of them that is his job to deceive to lie and to copy God's work,however he only offers duplicstes of the resl thing and he can only offer repeats too because he is dead he is not alive as The Spirit of God is and truly i am not here to argue I can only relate my own experiences and echoes of my forefathers and it is through faith and faith is beyond argument as it is already established I have evidence of a spiritual nature i am following truth, my whole life revolves around the presence of Christ and my belief in Him, he has given me strong foundation on which to stand and it is grounded in faith. Visions and dreams will cease however faith hope and love live on and on and on , Love in Him Julia

[zara_z (zara_z)]

Hmm.
Actually, I'm not still searching as I have found my niche, but rather I am interested in hearing all points of view, and learning about the beliefs and experiences of others.
Knowledge is a wonderful thing both to have and to pursue.
I'm happy for you in that you seem to have found happiness in your beliefs and in whom you worship, and in the end, I guess that's what is most important http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Blessed be,
Zara

[wyoming (wyoming)]

When I was in Bible college in the 70s, I knew of some other fellas in Bible college who were having fun with an Ouigi board. They were getting phenominal answers. [Somebody was praying for them to stop fooling with the occult.] Then the Ouigiboard stopped responding. Someone had the bright idea to ask the Ouigiboard why it was silent. The board responded by saying, "Because of the blood on you."

[devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666)]

An Ouija board is not, in of itself, a magick item. It works for some, and fails to have an effect with others. It is a focus, something to help you sharpen your will to achieve a desired out come. But it is not necessary to contact the dead, spirits, demons, etc.

And the occult doesn't necessarily mean "magick" either. It simply means "hidden". And, if a person cannot take responsibility for their uses of magick, then they have no business messing with it in the first place, it is not a play toy. It's not meant to be a joke. Those who treat it as such are begging for a bad experience.

[gatsis (gatsis)]

I have a hard time believing this post is about wicca given the Christian tone of the whole thread. I am not a witch or a born again Christian, however, I don't understand why many of you are even here.
I am here because I was curious about wicca and the spiritual views of cult members or X-cultists on the occult. I was astonished at how little discussion there is in this long outpouring of Christian fervor, about the subject of the thread. Perhaps it is not a generalization that Christians lack education and the ability to think for themselves. Maybe christians really do rely heavily on pre-written, pre-sourced ideas "pre-fab" thinking if you will, because they can't think of anything on their own two feet! Where is the discussion , why are you wasting your time blogging if you don't have a genuine interest in wicca or learning and are only here to pat each other on the back for your mutually espoused and self-congratulatory beliefs. If fraternity is picking something to have in common and then fraternizing ad infinitum, then you certainly have achieved that in this thread. I'm bored. I'm leaving.

[redpurusha (redpurusha)]

I predict the psychics will go out of business when people discover their own innate psychic abilities. If my prediction doesn't come true, then well.. I'm no psychic.