Knowledgism

[Enslaved Teammate]

Alan C. Walter's knowledgism.

[Fluffygirl]

I've read a little about it. It's an offshoot of Scn. He used to be, I believe, a very "upstat" missionholder in CofS.

I know people who are into it.

I checked it out just a bit- didn't try it but read about it.

I know it's pricey, for one thing, and I think I had enough of that when I was in CofS.

[Intellectual Giant]

KONCHALK PENDAY UCP

[Fluffygirl]

Another offshoot of Scn except in Konchok's case, he won't admit it and professes hatred for Hubbard.

[Anna Cleves]

Yea, Knowledgism does seem interesting, but they have some massive justifications for extremely exhorbitant pricing.

Just a bit less than the Mother Church.

[Sylvies Other Friend]

RE: UCP & the Super Squirrel

Fluff, it looks to me as if Konchok Penday took what was best about scientology auditing and made it better - just as LRH suggested that people should do, a long, long time ago (back in the fifties), before the whole trip went fascist.

..."he won't admit it and professes hatred for Hubbard."

- Is he guilty of anything, that he needs to "admit it"? As for hating Hubbard, I think it's not so much hatred as it is contempt, borne out of a profound disappointment in both LRH and the mess he left behind on Teegeeack, and especially for the clownish crooks who stole his "church".

[Pit Bull]

Ahaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Sylvio is starting to wake up to the joys of Scientology.

Admitting the possiblity that there might be some good lurking, under the surface.

[Fluffygirl]

Hi, SOF--

Oh, I know. Konchie doesn't have to do anything.But I find it amusing that he uses stuff that's right out of Dianetics but doesn't really give any credit to it or Hubbard.

[Brill]

Doesn't Knowledgists and alan condemn UCP.
Why is that. do they have good arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anyone ever been to the Institute of Applied Knowledge.

[Intellectual Giant]

Well if you're going to "understand" that Hubbard culled stuff from so many other places, then you should understand that Konchok could legitimately do the same.

[Fluffygirl]

Of course Konchie can do the same. And I've NO problem with that.

I just think it's funny that he does so then bitches and bitches about Hubbard.

I'm on forums where he posts. I've talked to the guy. He's extremely vehement, occasionally vitriolic, and always posts in capital letters. Very interesting fella.

[Fluffygirl]

CofS - and Hubbard when he was around- comes down really hard on heretics (which they call squirrels) just like the medieval Catholic Church did.

Prolly for same reasons- more a no compete thing than actual concern...

[Intellectual Giant]

I haven't read all of Konchie's stuff (funny your nickname for him, I like it) but he is just so damn bright it makes my head spin. I'm not so interested in his UCP/anti Hubbard stuff as I am in watching his mind at work. Read an interesting debate he had with Alan Walters awhile back.

But I think his attitude/ego is pretty inflated! You can see his head at work, and it's stunning, but one wonders about his heart, and that's always a worry I think, if one is left wondering about that most important of human aspects.

My 'nick' is a spoof, BTW.

[HELGHA]

Where Is That Debate Please

[Fluffygirl]

Feel free to start one.

[HELGHA]

No The Konchik Walter Debate I Mean Thakns

[Sylvie]

HELGHA,

In hopes that you will find what you're looking for, here's a starting point link below. The debate I read may not be the same one "Intellectual Giant" read, I don't know.

If it is, it was a brilliant one, Konchok particularly (in my view).

I don't share the conclusions of either of these serious thinkers. In light of the scientology debate, to me they are very interesting indeed. They have taken the guts of the scientology discussion - in "scientological" terms) beyond most internet pro-sci sites. From what I can gather Konchok Penday (in caps no less!) slams scientology, calling it Spyontology. LOL.

Alan Walters, on the other hand does not eschew his original relationship to Hubbard. Perhaps Penday doesn't either, I don't know. See what you think.

Looking For Mr.s Penday and Walters (http://www.google.com/search?q=penday%2Bwalters%2Balt%2Bclearing%2Btechn ology&hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1)

Good luck in your search for that debate. It was played out on alt.clearing.technology about, I think, 6 months ago, or about 6 months or so ago it was reposted to ACT. So I'd suggest going to the ACT website and doing a search for it.

[Phlegm]

konchok might be brilliant, but he's also nuts and is unable to see past his own nose.

So how brilliant could he be?

[Fluffygirl]

Well, I'm not exactly a fan of his. I see the way he acts and that doesn't sit well with me.

Anyway, alt.clearing.technology, as Sylvie points out is a good place to look.He posts there a great deal.

[Sylvie]

He's aggressive. But I've also seen him concede good points where most other scientologists on ACT do not, where they either skirt the issue entirely or give some lame response/diversion from the topic.

He does come off as a totally egotistical bastard at times, almost, strangely, sending himself up in the process. I would have thought CoS would have hated to lose him. He must have learned some of that attack attack behavior from his original mentor(s)...

So he squirreled some of Hubbard's tech apparently. Clue me in. I really don't have time to read a lot of ACT, so if anyone has an informed opinion on his UCP business I'd be interested. Not because I want to sign up, God forbid, but because of his Source, of course.

[Fluffygirl]

I really don't know much about it. I've been told he used a lot of Dianetic theory but only up to a point.

on ACT he mainly says "DO UCP AND SEE".

Well, I wasn't going to try it. I do, however, have curiousity as to what it is and where it differs from Scn.

[olska]

Sylvie,

Here's the UCP site.

http://www.net-prophet.net/

One of his headliner categories on the home page of the site is "Scientology sucks."

I read some of his "Tech Talk" bulletins. You may have to be a former scio to appreciate or understand them as he does a lot of comparing to scio tech.

I found it fascinating and some of it very very funny. Plan to read more. Will report back when I have more to say about it.

olska

[olska]

By the way, from what I've read so far, apparently his Universal Clearing Process (UCP) is absolutely FREE. You download it and do it. Need a partner though.

[Anonymous]

Why do people seem to think this guy is both crazy and a genius? Is it just something that is said or do people mean it?

What does he say that is crazy?

What does he say that is genius?

[Anonymous]

Well well, whether he has some creative ideas is irrelvent.

He seems to think that only his point of view is valid.

He's relly just full of ****e regardless.

[Anonymous]

There havent been many crazy geniuses in history. The mad scientist is an invention of the storyteller.

Autism explains one type, he is not autistic I don't think. Schizophrenia explains the other, but the craziness there does not manifest based on the genius, the genius would exist if the schizophrenia were banished. Can his genius be proven independently.

Sometimes people with disassociative disorders are considered creative, but it's really just the disorder. Is this his genius, a scattered broken mind?

[Sylvie]

I don't think he's any of those things you anonymii are attributing to him. So far as I can tell he can argue most people out of a paper bag, with logic.

I think the word you're looking for is 'ascerbic'. He doesn't suffer fools. What's wrong with that? It's a hard-edged approach but not less valid or interesting or intelligent for all of that.

He also happens to have a wry and cutting sense of humor, very sardonic; sends himself up in the process. If you can't see that, not his fault.

I don't buy his UCP, but I do like to watch his intellect at work. Anything wrong with that?

Christ, after reading and listening to Hubbard books and tapes, he's a breath of clean fresh air. And I'd wager he could argue well in most forums if he chose to.

If you're going to talk about dissociative disorders and Konchalk Penday, why don't you give examples of his dissociative patterns? That would be worth investigating and discussing. All you've done is thrown in one-liner attacks. Not interesting at all.

Unless you are prepared to analyze and discuss what you consider symptoms of a disorder you imagine him to have, your remarks are pretty irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

man o man, it figures you would like his bull****.

both you and he work hard to keep people from gaining the positive benefits of auditing.

you are both peas in a pod. both really very suppressive.

[Sylvie]

I've found a few examples of his debate with Alan Walters. I'm sure there's much more to it but a google with keywords "alan walters" brings up several "discussions" with Penday.

"Tech Talk" (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=alan%2Bwalters%2Bgroup:alt.clearing.techn ology&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.clearing.technology&selm=v4dfmu05gsq5t i8hjebuj98j8nj6j1fkds%404ax.com&rnum=10)

Now all this stuff isn't my cup of tea, but given it's in the area of my nemesis, scientology, I find it interesting. Not much time to go there, but when I do, well, as I said, it's interesting to compare Penday with Hubbard scientologists.

[Sylvie]

Here's an interesting thread I've just seen on ACT while researching the Walters/Penday debate -

Discussion of a "Win" (http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=bico9n.3vvk64r.1%40whyaretheydead.net&sc oring=d&prev=/groups%3Fgroup%3Dalt.clearing.technology)

[New Change]

Did UCP change what the acronym stood for.
I heard of a Universal Clearing Process a while ago, I thought that's what this was.

But reading through some A.C.T. threads it stands for Universal Conscious Practice?

What happened. Are these two different UCPs or did the name change. If the name changed, why did it change? Lawsuit or what. Since the acronym was kept it seems to indicate a forced change, otherwise why not pick new words.

[Anonymous]

Best to ask that question on ACT where they all hang out. http://groups.google.com/groups?group=alt.clearing.technology

[fullofquestions]

I'm not real sure on ACT