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roz (roz)
10-19-2005, 04:08 PM
I went to CCBTC from the late ‘70s until the split. I try to keep up with old friends, enjoy getting updates about people who used to attend there, and I visit CCG occasionally although you could qualify me as a lurker. I was going to be a lurker here until an interesting thing happened to me while visiting this board last night. I checked out some other threads and happened upon Faith Assembly and Hobart Freeman. There’s a lot of info here.

Most of you may not know about them. Located in Indiana, their church was also known as the Glory Barn. They were heavily into the WOF (word of faith) movement so much so that nearly a hundred people died including their charismatic leader, Hobart Freeman, because they did not believe in seeking medical attention. Many lawsuits were brought. I haven’t had time to read the copious amount of information available yet (there’s even more on a google search), but it sounds like the church blew apart just like we did.

This is of great interest to me for 2 reasons. First, a close friend of mine in high school (whom I’ll call Jony) attended CCBTC for one year and left to join this church. Second, the parallels to CCBTC are uncanny. When I quickly glossed over a few threads, I was absolutely amazed by the similar tone so many posters used – it would be hard to know if they were writing about FA or CCBTC if you took out names and other specific information.

Jony was a wonderful saint of God, totally desirous for the Lord and would climb mountains to be close to Jesus, if that’s what it took. I looked up to her as an older sister, a mentor, and she had a tremendous impact on my walk with Jesus during high school (she graduated a year ahead of me and headed to Seattle while I was a senior). Jony was a major influence on my decision to attend CCTBC. Even though she wasn’t returning, she advised me that Seattle would be better for me. Joni and I had a mutual friend who never came to CCBTC or went to FA, whom I’ll call Pat. Pat and I graduated together and were very close.

After we graduated, I left for Seattle and Pat went to another college for half a year, met a man, got married, and they moved back to our home town. Pat stayed in touch with me by mail and with Jony through many personal visits since they didn’t live far apart. During my early years of CCBTC, Pat was becoming more entrenched in the WOF movement because of her friendship with Jony. I didn’t particularly have a problem with this; I was pretty ignorant about WOF. Pat never used to believe in speaking in tongues, but that quickly changed as Jony got deeper into FA and their friendship grew. I thought this was a good step. But, Pat also shunned holidays and this deeply hurt her family who were all born-again Christians. I didn't agree with how she handled it. This is just the beginning. It gets more bizarre.

One time, on a visit back home, I spent a morning at Pat's house. Her 4-year old son skinned his knee while outside playing. He came running into the house screaming with tears flowing. Pat hoisted him up on a table, surmised the damage and instead of cleaning and tending the wound, she began to repeat over and over, “You’re not hurt, you’re healed in Jesus’ name….” She instructed him to repeat, "I'm not hurt." She laid hands on him and prayed for several minutes and that was that.

Pat had 4 children 4 years in a row because she didn’t believe in birth control (another FA influence?). I asked her once, what if you get pregnant every year you are fertile? She answered, “If it’s God’s will, it’s OK with me.” Pat never had a chance to experience any more years of fertility because she was killed in a car accident shortly after that conversation. Ironically, Jony was with her and both of their babies were in the back seat. Only Jony survived and she barely survived because she and her family demanded she be removed from the hospital. The story I got was that IVs were yanked out as she was carried out by her family while semi-conscious.

I saw Jony once briefly while she was visiting my home town in the early ‘90s. CCBTC was by then a distant memory and I’m guessing when I saw her FA was history, too. We only greeted each other and never talked about any details. I’ve never talked to her about those years. Sometimes I wish I could, but I don’t really feel a need to.

I’m in my 40s now and will never be able to erase all these memories. Even before all this, I remember working with a family the summer after being saved. They had a cotton candy stand and traveled all over the region to work local and state fairs. We’d be gone for 10 days at a stretch. It was typical for a religious group to come in and have a booth and hold services for the “carnies” on the weekends. I got a flyer from a place called the “Glory Barn.” I was newly saved and it was a wonderful service. I can still remember the picture of that barn on the little flyer.

Over the years, they’d pop up on my memory radar and I’d attempt to do a search on the internet but found nothing. Little did I know -- until last night -- they were part of Faith Assembly which is where Jony eventually ended up.

Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

So now, I’m going to offer up some of my time to throw myself into a history lesson on FA. I’m not sure why I want to do this. I’m curious, of course, but I’m way past needing anything to help me salve any old wounds from CCBTC. I guess it’s nice to know that we weren’t as “out there” as we thought we were.

Good day.
Roz

PS – Here’s an interesting thread that shows what I mean.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/9300.html?1125087568

movinon (movinon)
10-19-2005, 06:33 PM
Hi Roz,

Yeah, we sure weren't the only group (ccbtc) that had strange ideas and acted upon them. You sound like you're doing ok. I'm always glad to hear that from ex-ccbtc people.

mo

steve (steve)
10-20-2005, 01:47 AM
Roz,

Thanks for these interesting observations. I have heard of the Glory Barn and Hobart Freeman before - in fact I am fairly sure it was from somebody at the Chapel while I was there. It also seems like I heard that Hobart Freeman himself died because of some condition that was left untreated because of his belief in faith healing. Have you heard that, or am I getting him mixed up with somebody else?

calv (calv)
10-20-2005, 03:09 AM
Roz

The more you search the more you find! Things could be totaly differnt than chapel, but exactly the same. Its funny how it all works. Really nothing new under the sun,but the pain and damage is always the same.

Its so good to hear others stories and what they went thru.

Check out Greater Grace.... its amazing the parallels.
A little man with a speach impediment and a bad wig!
and thats just the start! Its what chapel would be today if connections hadn't stoped us!

roz (roz)
10-20-2005, 02:15 PM
Hi all,

Steve, yes Hobart Freeman died from a medical condition that was easily treatable (I think I read they guessed diabetes based on his symptoms). In fact, the horrifying stories of the children who died are even more horrific when you factor in most physical ailments were treatable. I also was struck by the fact that so many children developed something cancerous, or so it seemed to me while reading.

I'd sure be curious to know who else at the Chapel had any connections to FA. In further reading I've discovered they had satellite groups all over the US who used tape ministry to get fed.

Thanks Calv and Movinon for weighing in. I have another very sobering link for all interested to read.

http://www.tomax7.com/thoughts/feedback.htm

And, speaking of nothing new under the sun...Jan Cole's name has surfaced recently. I was stunned, saddened, and angered to hear this morning about the woman who threw her three kids, all under the age of 10, into the San Fransico Bay after stripping them of their clothes. Claims she heard voices. Lord, help us all.

calv (calv)
10-20-2005, 02:54 PM
amazing what a few tapes can do...

movinon (movinon)
10-20-2005, 09:36 PM
Hi Roz,

I remember hearing about Hobart Freeman years ago before I ever made my journey to the chapel. My pastor at the time was fairly active and involved with lots of other groups and churches, and FA was one that he, at least, was familiar with and therefore I heard about. Of course, we were exposed to the hyperfaith stuff too, but not to the degree that FA was doing.

My feelings are that adults can do what they want (within reason or not so much reason!) but when you start affecting children with aberrant practices such as those at FA and CCBTC, well, then it all becomes a completely different ball of wax. Children are innocent bystanders and consequently, become innocent victims. They cannot stand up for themselves in circumstances where those adults that are supposed to be caring for them are actually doing them harm.

While I really do believe that parents should be free to raise their children within whatever belief system they choose, there is always the danger that they will follow totally out of balance practices that could possibly endanger the child. I guess this is where I would draw line...but even then, it would have to be a situation by situation judgment, as blanket judgments could never apply justice and rightness in all circumstances. It is not a totally black and white call, if you know what I mean.

That mother that did that horrible thing today suffers from schizophrenia (according to the news reports), possibly one of the most horrendous psychological disorders since it is like watching your loved one die slowly before your eyes. From what I heard, she had quit taking her meds (which is a common occurence among those with schizophrenia). Of course, that topic could lead to a very involved discussion about our public health system and how we, as a nation, deal with the mentally ill.

By the way, where did you hear about Jan Cole recently?

mo

roz (roz)
10-21-2005, 06:36 PM
I really agree with you, movinon, that children need to be protected. I guess that's why states are jumping on this and asserting laws that protect the innocent over the so-called laws of God (laws according to man's interpretation anyway). All this reading I've done this week has really made me sick to my stomach, especially the detailed suffering of children. I also read the articles on Rick Ross' site and found out about stuff I'd never heard before out CCBTC. Again, it wasn't edifying.

I'm not surprised you knew about FA before CCBTC because they had satellite groups all over. I'm still surprised that my friend, Jony, advised me to go to CCBTC after she herself was leaving the place. I think it had to do with Bible college not being at FA. Anyway, it's all so weird to me now.

Things are coming back to my mind this week. For instance, Jony and Pat tried to get a local group going close to our home town. I remember one summer visiting from Bible college and attending a service. The worship was very similar to ours, but the women had to wear a piece of cloth over their heads in church.

I only referred to Jan Cole because I'd found this board recently and there had been some postings about her. That's why it came back to my mind. Ironically, the news of this mentally disturbed mother dropping her children into the bay, plus all the reading I've been doing on FA, happens during a time I'm reminded of all the junk going on in our church and elsewhere in the church world.

I think I need a break!

Anyway, thanks for your input. I enjoy your posts.

Roz}

calv (calv)
10-23-2005, 05:23 AM
Hmmm...Glory Barn......sounds like they had a lot of poop to deal with too! It can sure pile up......pretty soon you get use to livin in it and you think its normal. How dare anyone from the outside say your livin in crap!
How would they know? They have no Idea how wonderful it is, how much better it is, compared to what we use to live in!

fallingup (fallingup)
10-24-2005, 01:00 AM
Wouldn't you all like to know what the kids thaught about it? Well, I was one of those kids. Some people might think, "you were too young and you probably don't remember anything," or "because you were young, you should be more resilient then the rest of us." I despirately wich that this was true, but IT ISN'T TRUE.
Even though we had grown up in it, we knew there was something wrong. Children know a lot more than we give them credit for.
I'm not going to get into the entire long drawn out story right now, but point being your earlier statements are correct kids suffer too and it can last for a long time.
It's extremely painful to watch your own parents "plot thier own (and rest of the families) demise." Then if that isn't enough you have to live with them (until CPS takes you away that is), respect them as your parents, obey them, and love them, even when you feel like part of your living hell is there fault (and it seriously can't just be attributed to a teenager thing).

fallingup (fallingup)
10-24-2005, 01:01 AM
Sorry about that, just had to vent.

movinon (movinon)
10-24-2005, 01:35 AM
Fallingup,

What place are you talking about being a part of as a kid...the Glory Barn thing or CCBTC?

Either way, I'm sorry for all that you have suffered, and I certainly don't think that kids are more resilient so they shouldn't be affected by stuff. Our child, who is now an adult, was one of our main reasons for leaving ccbtc(she was only an infant then). But, I have to say, that even though she wasn't there to experience the crap first hand, she suffered because we were trudging our way through to some semblence of mental health and sanity.

Some people say they have no regrets...well, I do. I regret that I wasn't always as patient with my child as I should have been as I was suffering through the after effects of religious mind control and deception. If I could change one thing...it would be that; but then, whose to say that if I did, things would have been different? It will take someone with more wisdom and foresight than myself to give a definitive answer to that one. Actually, I only think the LORD can answer that question fully.

We, too, watched parents and family members participate in things that we knew were going to destroy them,and it was painful to try and warn them only to be ignored and treated like we were complete unbelievers...and...we were adults when this happened.

No,I don't think all that we saw the kids of CCBTC go through was just a teenage thing...they were the only ones reacting normally, in my estimation by hindsight...they were reacting to the insanity of all the destruction that was going on...I only wish I would have had more power to change things...as it was, all we could do was get the hell out of there and try to recover our own lives.

Don't be sorry for venting, that is what places like this are all about.

Take care,

mo

calv (calv)
10-24-2005, 01:46 AM
I would love to hear what the kids think! Where are they now? How did it affect them? The few that I know today.... are struggling... at best. It sounds like your pretty together, Falling up. Where you removed by CPS?
I think every story is important. Especially the kids, they have been the most overlooked in all of this. Lost in the parents issues.How could CC become more important than the kids? why???
Its always easier to blame the kids behaviour on something other than ones own behaviour! Live up to this false standard. If you fail to do this for me ... you are a failure.... I sure hope none of my children ever dishonure me like so and so's kid....

calv (calv)
10-24-2005, 01:49 AM
BTW WELCOME.... ROZ and FALLINGUP

Its great to hear new voices!

calv (calv)
10-24-2005, 01:54 AM
MO

I agree....they were the ones acting normal! Considering also what they were traped in the middle of. For them to look back they have a right to be angry.
How frustrating it must have been!?!?