Post Chapel GroupsMinistries

[movinon (movinon)]

I've been wondering lately about post chapel groups and ministries, since we have had the misfortune of running into and hearing about a group here in our town that is being led by an ex-chapel connection couple. These people are very dangerous and quite simply use others to build their own kingdom, not to mention that their doctrine is way off in some very fundamental areas. What's it like for you all out there in your respective towns and cities? Do you hear much about this kind of thing? Do you run into these sorts of people on any regular basis? What is your opinion on these sorts of things when you encounter them and even when you don't encounter them?

mo

[steve (steve)]

mo,

Thanks for bringing this up. This has been in the back of my mind for some time - the way that Chapel doctrine is still spreading and what, if anything, my responsibility is as a former Chapel member to expose or publicize those who are still promulgating this doctrine - doctrine that we know from personal experience led to so much grief at the Chapel.

I know that one thing such people dislike is public identification of their doctrine - that is, of what it is they are really teaching (anti-Trinitarianism) and who it comes from (Don Barnett). They prefer to cloak themselves in the guise of just another Pentecostal church that is "really moving with God." Therefore I think it would be good if at the very least we could use this site as a source of information regarding those churches, groups, and would-be ministers that are promulgating Chapel doctrine today so people could be warned away from them if they encounter them.

Here are the people I know of that are still teaching some of Chapel doctrine:

1) Don Barnett and COA (the Church of Agape) is not only promulgating his updated version of UROG doctrine that now claims Jesus is not himself God in any way (JING - "<u>J</u>esus <u>i</u>s <u>n</u>ot <u>G</u>od" - theology), but also still teaches and practices connections. They meet in a rented musicians hall in Renton.

2) Bob Sackett and Cliff somebody (I don't know his last name) are leading "Bible studies" in the south Seattle area that promote JING doctrine. At one time they were using a book published by a splinter group of The Way International titled One God and One Lord: Reconsidering the Cornerstone of the Christian Faith by Mark H. Graeser, John A. Lynn and John W. Schoenheit to teach out of. (The Way International was a cult that was somewhat similar to the Chapel in that it had a controlling leader who taught anti-Trinitarianism and which fell apart in a sexual scandal, leaving many smaller groups that are still teaching some form of its doctrine. I don't think any of them, or The Way itself, are Pentecostal, however.)

3) Earl Thurner is still preaching in various areas - I don't know where all, but for a long time he focused on Hawaii.

4) Elvin Gladney leads a church in the central area of Seattle. I don't know its name.

5) Jamie and Nancy Hansen are leading a church in Yakima. It is named The Faith Center and is located at 903 Lindy Lane in Yakima.

6) New Heart Worship Center in Auburn is not an offshoot of the Chapel, nor is the pastor, Joe Parker, connected to the Chapel in any way (he's UPC), but a number of Chapelites attend there or are on staff there, including ex-Chapel elder and Bible college teacher Lanny Peterson. As is well-known from the Chapel board, today Lanny fully believes and promotes JING doctrine, saying he thinks any differences between it and the UROG theology formerly taught by the Chapel are merely semantic clarifications. Jack Hicks is also the business administrator there, by the way.

If you would like, you can add the name of the couple you know about and their church (if any) to this list. I also invite anyone to submit more names they know about to this thread, or to post corrections or details about the people and groups above.

[calv (calv)]

MO

Community Chapel is a cult!
People were programed. The Brainwash still manifests itself. The seeds have been spread by the wind and take root wherever they land. Its important to identify what the programing was and how it was disguised as well. The theologey can be adjusted,but the behaviour
is still the same. All that matters is "the ministery", but I ask is that what its really all about? Or is it something to hide behind? Important little men with important positions to maintain! As a matter of fact its a very common behaviour, always has been.
DB taught them by his model. Just looking around how many others are out there that have prostituded the word?

[movinon (movinon)]

Calv and Steve,

Yes, DB did teach according to his model, and specifically, in regard to the couple here in our town, they and their "ministry" couldn't be any more like cc if DB had started it himself! My spouse and I refer to them as the "body snatchers",and truly use the word "ministry" very loosely when referring to them, because they have no qualms about infiltrating other churches to go in and "call out the bride" as they refer to it. What this really entails is going in, creating discontent among those with inclinations like their own, and then pulling them out to be a part of their group (you know...more bodies = more money = a more lavish lifestyle for them). If that isn't what works, they schmooze and love bomb the pastor/leader and eventually, just take over,or get in so tight with the existing pastor that they are a very strong influence on the church and its leadership without taking over. We have actually received calls from people even just recently who were concerned about these people and what they are doing.

There are people who basically mean well but have no other point of reference for what they consider ministry, and then there are people who are so obviously building their own kingdom for their own glory and power that this makes them quite spiritually dangerous, because they use others to accomplish this very selfish goal. The group we are concerned with has twisted salvation to be a total work of legalistic self-righteousness, and we have personally seen the damage it has done to their followers!

I hesitate to use their names at this point in time, but that doesn't mean I will not at some future time. I have had personal experience with the majority of those you mentioned in your post (although a few I have not) and overall, I can't judge their motives for doing what they do or believing what they believe. What I do judge is when I see others using other people to the detriment of those people they are supposed to be leading,shepherding, and laying down their lives for as a leader. This incenses me because it is a blatant violation of the Biblical command to all true pastors and shepherds. It deeply concerns me to see people walking after those that appear to be sheep but who are really wolves in sheep's clothing! Yet, until they reach their personal point of offense, no words will be able to penetrate their delusion and deception.

This is one of the greatest frustrations of being an ex-cult member....watching others suffering needlessly. Now I can relate to those who watched me suffer so needlessly...faithful friends who tried to warn me about cc and other groups like them. When I finally did come to my senses (which was a gradual process) their words of truth to me were like sentinal witnesses, helping me to see that what I was realizing and understanding was indeed true. Sometimes, truth is a hard pill to swallow, but swallow it we must if we want to get better.

mo

[calv (calv)]

By thier fruit you will know them.
There are enough needy people in this world
are they prey?
or do they pray?
Offer to empower them
thell eat it up
follow you beyond the end
turn around
do it all over again
history repeats itself
an endless cycle
after your gone
the legacey remaines
its not what they said
its what they did
all the great works
they do for themself
lift themselfs up
put others down
they know the truth
more then the rest
lost in the game
life is a test
win at all cost
use who they must
nothing at all
like the one who was slain
are they the ones
who put him to death
just couldnt stand
the truth that he was
nothing else matters
their always right
if you dont agree
you must be wrong
its all about them
thier ministery
do they love others
or only themselfs
when you see the fruit
it will be too late
thats how it spreads
decived over time
hiding behind self-rightesness
look at the damage they do
swept under the rug
hidden from veiw
does anyone see?
What does it matter
who really cares
what is the meaning
behind what they do?

[calv (calv)]

little tiny group
all by itself
tiny little man
something to prove
mind full of knowlage
is it all true
who can correct him
what would it do
take away power
control his life
what is the problem
who does he love
connecting with others
unhealthy too
toxic and lethal
a magic brew
drink it in
what you belive
slowly it kills you
and those that you love
look at the damage
does it compare
all the good works
they claim to have done
what does it matter
if you destored even one
Lord Lord
look what WE did
in your name

[calv (calv)]

the competion
for attention
be a leader
get ahead
get approved
all that mattered
nothing else
elbows and <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>
to the front of the line
get some power
build a group
they gather round
lift you up
be a part of the vision
find your place
don't think for yourself
follow your leader
stay in the boat
or you'll be lost
little sheepies
your so stupid
tiny houlves
trample each other
the voice of a shepherd
heart of a wolf
what does it matter
they really don't care
what they do now
its what they did then
they haven't changed
still do the same thing

who have they healed
where are they now
show me the money
where did it go
what did it buy
an empty building
tapes of the words
the ones that were taught us
that got us here now
What is the value
play them again
remember the good
don't face the bad
under the blood
just forgive
sin washed away
forgiven and clean?
but did you repent
go to those that you hurt
make amends
where you were wrong
or turn back to your vomit
lap it all up
It makes me sick
to think what it did
was anything learned?
nothing is wrong
in your little world
your in contol
no one can touch you
what does that say?

[calv (calv)]

Where are you now
your awfully quiet
nothing to say
didn't do any time
was it a crime
talk to us now
what do you think
did you do wrong
why do you hide
behind a faucad
nothing to say
what did you do
not even sorry
so smug and so smart
scared of the light
a cowerd
can't face the truth
here we are now
just for the record
what will you say

just hide
in your little shelter
the one that you built
with people you've used
just cause they follow
doesn't mean your right
what they belive
are the lies that you tell

are you a lie
is it for real
who do you ask
hear what you want
its easy to choose
ones that agree
the ones that you use

[calv (calv)]

Just worship Jesus
get in the trance
praise him with singing
and in the dance
study your bible
stay in the move
don't listen to outsiders
they are decived
used bt the devil
to bring me down
Satan is angery
thats why they attack
can't you see
Im leading the way
how dare you question
if you can't see
you need deliverance
don't give the devil a hold
he'll take you down
like so many others
stay in the boat
don't jump in the fire
your sure to get burned
I AM YOUR PASTOR

he uses the word
twisted and true
what ever he wants
thats what he'll do
how many others
learned from the best
follow his footsteps
learnd how to dance
play the same game
using the word
for thier own gain

Oh thank you Jesus
your so good to me
see how I use you
what they belive
its really quite simple
get them to feel
lots of emotions
ones they dont like
some that they do
so easily hooked
on ones that are good
soon the are trained
see how they follow
keep feeding the lies
dont let them feel
give them emotions
ones that seem real
sure they are empty
thats why they come back for more
addicted to lies
what they belive
is a prison of lies

how to escape
what if your caught
what will it cost
the shame that is used
things that are done
marks that are left
branded and marked
left so confused
is it me that is wrong
full of self-doubt
could they all be wrong
or is it just me
thats what they say
maybe thier right
maybe Im wrong
what should I do
noone understands
the way that it is
something is wrong
what could it be

[calv (calv)]

To the Demonic Intellectual
only a weasle with sidekicks
a stratigic plan
to get kicked off MY board

Is chapel the benchmark to measure a mans heart?
How many shades of grey come from groung zero?
Is it so wrong to question? santimonious agendas of the most devout disiples.
Whats wrong with a little leven? After all the motives are good....according to whom?

[steve (steve)]

Calv,

I just caught this - somehow I skimmed over it the first time and it didn't sink in:<blockquote><font color="0000ff">Is chapel the benchmark to measure a mans heart?</font></blockquote>That is a very insightful observation about the way those who still hold to the Chapel standards today (i.e., nearly everybody who is participating on the CCG board). That is the way they indeed do treat the situation: If you think the Chapel was good, you're good; if you think the Chapel was bad, you're bad. I've found it remarkable that I am demonized there solely because I've concluded that the Chapel was off in its basic teachings and was cult-like as a result. All they can see in our postings is the word "cult" in proximity to the name "Community Chapel," so they go ballistic over it without considering anything else that we say. A good way to convince the world that they aren't cultish! NOT.

[calv (calv)]

CULT


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[steve (steve)]

Hey sidekick,

Was that a strategic plan to get kicked off the CCG board? Or only a tirade?

[calv (calv)]

strategic plan

self-appointed cc slayer

[calv (calv)]

A little tiny group
nothing much to say
tempest in a teapot
wish they'd go away

what is the agenda
its really hard to say
depends on the players
and the court you play

choosing sides
why is it an issue
if its not the side your on
is everything else wrong

more than it is
less than it was
the futher away you get
the better it was

a couple of voices
is that all you hear
what about the quiet
it makes me deaf

what does it matter
how do you know
isHe just one
or all three

strong opinions
on things we know very little about
like thats all that matters
somethings not right

biblical scholars
utter ignorance
who is unclean
what is the sin

keep every law
make it up as you go
just a deep pit
how deep will it go