View Full Version : Cult leaders
calv (calv)
03-09-2006, 06:09 AM
worth a read?
http://www.anandainfo.com/cult_leaders.html
calv (calv)
03-09-2006, 06:13 AM
To heal from a traumatic experience of this type, it is important to understand who and what the
perpetrator is. As long as there are illusions about the leader's motivation, powers, and abilities, those who have been in his grip deprive themselves of an important opportunity for growth: the chance to empower themselves, to become free of the tyranny of dependency on others for their well-being, spiritual growth, and happiness.
steveb (steveb)
03-09-2006, 07:13 PM
That's a good article, calv. Some sentences resonate very much with memories of our former pastor.<blockquote><font color="0000ff">"...beneath the surface gloss of intelligence, charm, and professed humility seethes an inner world of rage, depression, and fear."</font></blockquote>Also, I found this observation interesting:<blockquote><font color="0000ff">"Highly suspicious, they may feel conspired against, spied upon or cheated, or maligned by a person, group, or governmental agency. Any real or suspected unfavorable reaction may be interpreted as a deliberate attack upon them or the group."</font></blockquote>Don instills that attitude very well into his followers. Or maybe he just tends to attract people who think that way to begin with. In any case, the CCG board exemplifies that outlook to this day. They regard an unfavorable reaction to their anti-Trinitarian, anti-mainstream stance as evidence that one has been deceived by an evil, persecuting majority, and has joined it against them. If you consciously and knowledgeably reject "Oneness" doctrine in favor of Trinitarian doctrine, they cannot accept mentally that you are taking a principled, Biblical stand. Instead, they are convinced you are actually motivated by a desire to persecute them - perhaps physically but certainly emotionally and verbally; they regard you as a personal enemy because they genuinely think you regard them, and every other individual "Oneness" believer, as a personal enemy that must be defeated.
calv (calv)
03-09-2006, 07:42 PM
A small band that builds a shrine to the "good"
that was built upon a faulty foundation negleting to look at the whole picture of the destruction it wrought.
Manifesting the very ignorance the held them captive from the start.
Victorious living thru denial and shaming those the point it out!
I ate that meal and it made me sick.... now they think more of the same will heal people!
calv (calv)
03-09-2006, 10:50 PM
Common Issues in Post-Cult Recovery
*
Some of the recovery issues that keep recurring in my work with ex-cult members are:
*
1.***************** Sense of purposelessness, of being disconnected.* They left a group that had a powerful purpose and intense drive; they miss the peak experiences produced from the intensity and the group dynamics.
2.***************** Depression.
3.***************** Grieving for other group members, for a sense of loss in their life.
4.***************** Guilt.* Former members will feel guilt for having gotten involved in the first place, for the people they recruited into the group, and for the things they did while in the group.
5.***************** Anger.* This will be felt toward the group and/or the leaders.* At times this anger is misdirected toward themselves.
6.***************** Alienation.* They will feel alienation from the group, often from old friends (that is, those who were friends prior to their cult involvement), and sometimes from family.
7.***************** Isolation.* To ex-cult members, no one "out there" seems to understand what they're going through, especially their families.
8.***************** Distrust.* This extends to group situations, and often to organized religion (if they were in a religious cult) or organizations in general (depending on the type of cult they were in).* There is also a general distrust of their own ability to discern when or if they are being manipulated again.* This dissipates after they learn more about mind control and begin to listen to their own inner voice again.
9.***************** Fear of going crazy.* This is especially common after "floating" experiences (see point 18 below for explanation of floating).
10.************* Fear that what the cult said would happen to them if they left actually might happen.
11.************* Tendency to think in terms of black and white, as conditioned by the cult.* They need to practice looking for the gray areas.
*
calv (calv)
03-09-2006, 10:53 PM
12.************* Spiritualizing everything.* This residual sometimes lasts for quite a while.* Former members need to be encouraged to look for logical reasons why things happen and to deal with reality, to let go of their magical thinking.
13.************* Inability to make decisions.* This characteristic reflects the dependency that was fostered by the cult.
14.************* Low self-esteem.* This generally comes from those experiences common to most cults, where time and again members are told that they are worthless.
15.************* Embarrassment.* This is an expression of the inability to talk about their experience, to explain how or why they got involved or what they had done during that time.* It is often manifested by an intense feeling of being ill at ease in both social and work situations.* Also, often there is a feeling of being out of sync with everyone else, of going through culture shock, from having lived in a closed environment and having been deprived of participating in everyday culture.
16.************* Employment and/or career problems.* Former members face the dilemma of what to put on a resume to cover the blank years of cult membership.
17.************* Dissociation.* This also has been fostered by the cult.* Either active or passive, it is a period of not being in touch with reality or those around them, an inability to communicate.
18.************* Floating.* These are flashbacks into the cult mindset.* It can also take on the effect of an intense emotional reaction that is inappropriate to the particular stimuli.
calv (calv)
03-09-2006, 10:55 PM
19.************* Nightmares.* Some people also experience hallucinations or hearing voices.* A small percentage of former members need hospitalization due to this type of residual.
20.************* Family issues.
21.************* Dependency issues.
22.************* Sexuality issues.
23.************* Spiritual (or philosophical) issues.* Former members often face difficult questions:* Where can I go to have my spiritual (or belief) needs met?* What do I believe in now?* What is there to believe in, trust in?
24.************* Inability to concentrate, short-term memory loss.
25.************* Re-emergence of pre-cult emotional or psychological issues.
26.************* Impatience with the recovery process.
*
In my experience, there is no difference in the aftereffects experienced by those people who had family interventions or those who walked away or were expelled from a cult.* Most ex-cult members — no matter the method of leaving the cult — had some or all of these residuals.* The difference is that the individuals who had interventions are more prepared to deal with them, and especially those who went to a rehab facility.*
*
It is important to note and to bring to the attention of the ex-cult member that each individual's recovery process is different and there is no "How To Recover from a Cultic Experience."* In fact, the desire for a quick and easy recovery may be in itself a residual effect of the cult.
*
Excerpted from "Post-cult Problems: An Exit Counselor's Perspective" by Carol Giambalvo, in Recovery from Cults: Help for Victims of Psychological and Spiritual Abuse, edited by Michael D. Langone (1993. W.W. Norton & Company.)* Reprinted with permission. Also available from AFF.
calv (calv)
03-09-2006, 11:03 PM
of course this come out of the "domestic violence industry"....which is a lot like the whole medical industry! really no need for it?
calv (calv)
03-10-2006, 12:07 AM
solated from everyone but those within the group, recruits become dependent upon group members and leaders and find it difficult if not impossible to offer resistance to group teachings. They become self-interested and hyper-vigilant, very fearful should they incur the disapproval of the group, which now offers the only support available to them which has group approval.
Warning signs
The seed of extremism exists wherever a group demands all the free time of a member, insisting he be in church every time the doors are open and calling him to account if he isn't, is critical or disapproving of involvements with friends and family outside the group, encourages secrecy by asking that members not share what they have seen or heard in meetings or about church affairs with outsiders, is openly, publicly, and repeatedly critical of other churches or groups (especially if the group claims to be the only one which speaks for God), is critical when members attend conferences, workshops or services at other churches, checks up on members in any way, i.e., to determine that the reason they gave for missing a meeting was valid, or makes attendance at all church functions mandatory for participating in church ministry or enjoying other benefits of church fellowship.
Once a member stops interacting openly with others, the group's influence is all that matters. He is bombarded with group values and information and there is no one outside the group with whom to share thoughts or who will offer reinforcement or affirmation if the member disagrees with or doubts the values of the group. The process of isolation and the self-doubt it creates allow the group and its leaders to gain power over the members. Leaders may criticize major and minor flaws of members, sometimes publicly, or remind them of present or past sins. They may call members names, insult them or ignore them, or practice a combination of ignoring members at some times and receiving them warmly at others, thus maintaining a position of power (i.e., the leaders call the shots.)
*
calv (calv)
03-10-2006, 12:13 AM
Abusive groups insist on compliance with trival demands related to all facets of life: food, clothing, money, household arrangements, children, conversation. They monitor members' appearances, criticize language and childcare practices. They insist on precise schedules and routines, which may change and be contradictory from day to day or moment to moment, depending on the whims of group leaders.
At first, new members may think these expectations are unreasonable and may dispute them, but later, either because they want to be at peace or because they are afraid, or because everyone else is complying, they attempt to comply. After all, what real difference does it make if a member is not allowed to wear a certain color, or to wear his hair in a certain way, to eat certain foods, or say certain words, to go certain places, watch certain things, or associate with certain individuals. In the overall scheme of things, does it really matter? In fact, in the long run, the member begins to reason, it is probably good to learn these disciplines, and after all, as they have frequently been reminded, they are to submit to spiritual authority as unto the Lord.. Soon it becomes apparent that the demands will be unending, and increasing time and energy are focused on avoiding group disapproval by doing something "wrong." There is a feeling of walking on eggs. Everything becomes important in terms of how the group or its leaders will respond, and members' desires, feelings and ideas become insignificant. Eventually, members may no longer even know what they want, feel or think. The group has so monopolized all of the members' perceptions with trivial demands that members lose their perspective as to the enormity of the situation they are in.
calv (calv)
03-10-2006, 12:15 AM
Abusive groups insist on compliance with trival demands related to all facets of life: food, clothing, money, household arrangements, children, conversation. They monitor members' appearances, criticize language and childcare practices. They insist on precise schedules and routines, which may change and be contradictory from day to day or moment to moment, depending on the whims of group leaders.
At first, new members may think these expectations are unreasonable and may dispute them, but later, either because they want to be at peace or because they are afraid, or because everyone else is complying, they attempt to comply. After all, what real difference does it make if a member is not allowed to wear a certain color, or to wear his hair in a certain way, to eat certain foods, or say certain words, to go certain places, watch certain things, or associate with certain individuals. In the overall scheme of things, does it really matter? In fact, in the long run, the member begins to reason, it is probably good to learn these disciplines, and after all, as they have frequently been reminded, they are to submit to spiritual authority as unto the Lord.. Soon it becomes apparent that the demands will be unending, and increasing time and energy are focused on avoiding group disapproval by doing something "wrong." There is a feeling of walking on eggs. Everything becomes important in terms of how the group or its leaders will respond, and members' desires, feelings and ideas become insignificant. Eventually, members may no longer even know what they want, feel or think. The group has so monopolized all of the members' perceptions with trivial demands that members lose their perspective as to the enormity of the situation they are in.
calv (calv)
03-10-2006, 12:23 AM
The leaders may also persuade the members that they have the inside track with God and therefore know how everything should be done. When their behavior results in disastrous consequences, as it often does, the members are blamed. Sometimes the leaders may have moments, especially after abusive episodes, when they appear to humble themselves and confess their faults, and the contrast of these moments of vulnerability with their usual pose of being all-powerful endears them to members and gives hope for some open communication.
calv (calv)
03-10-2006, 12:26 AM
Threats sometimes accompany all of these methods. Members are told they will be under God's judgment, under a curse, punished, chastised, chastened if they leave the group or disobey group leaders. Sometimes the leaders, themselves, punish the members, and so members can never be sure when leaders will make good on the threats which they say are God's idea. The members begin to focus on what they can do to meet any and all group demands and how to preserve peace in the short run. Abusive groups may remove children from their parents, control all the money in the group, arrange marriages, destroy personal items of members or hide personal items.
Warning signs:
Preoccupation with trivial demands of daily life, demanding strict compliance with standards of appearance, dress codes, what foods are or are not to be eaten and when, schedules, threats of God's wrath if group rules are not obeyed, a feeling of being monitored, watched constantly by those in the group or by leaders. In other words, what the church wants, believes and thinks its members should do becomes everything, and you feel preoccupied with making sure you are meeting the standards. It no longer matters whether you agree that the standards are correct, only that you follow them and thus keep the peace and in the good graces of leaders.
calv (calv)
03-10-2006, 12:32 AM
Warning Signs:
Unwillingness to allow members to use their gifts. Establishing rigid boot camp-like requirements for the sake of proving commitment to the group before gifts may be exercised. Repeatedly criticizing natural giftedness by reminding members they must die to their natural gifts, that Paul, after all, said, "When I'm weak, I'm strong," and that they should expect God to use them in areas other than their areas of giftedness. Emphasizing helps or service to the group as a prerequisite to church ministry. This might take the form of requiring that anyone wanting to serve in any way first have the responsibility of cleaning toilets or cleaning the church for a specified time, that anyone wanting to sing in the worship band must first sing to the children in Sunday School, or that before exercising any gifts at all, members must demonstrate loyalty to the group by faithful attendance at all functions and such things as tithing. No consideration is given to the length of time a new member has been a Christian or to his age or station in life or his unique talents or abilities. The rules apply to everyone alike. This has the effect of reducing everyone to some kind of lowest common denominator where no one's gifts or natural abilities are valued or appreciated, where the individual is not cherished for the unique blessing he or she is to the body of Christ, where what is most highly valued is service, obedience, submission to authority, and performance without regard to gifts or abilities or, for that matter, individual limitations.
calv (calv)
03-10-2006, 01:39 AM
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/18860.html?1141942781
calv (calv)
03-10-2006, 02:42 AM
http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/cultdyn.htm
davidmarkbecker
03-24-2006, 09:42 AM
Calv, of the things that you regret doing while at CCBTC, what, if any, of them do you take personal responsibility for? In other words, if you made bad personal choices while at CCBTC, or committed "sins," if you will, to what extent was it because you were influenced/brainwashed by a "cult," and to what extent was it your own sinful flesh and your own willful decisions of the heart that were at the root of the situation?
(Don't feel that you have to answer if you don't want to.)
David
I take personal responsibility all my choices.
I made my own decisions....
That is painful stuff to look at and admit!
Ive have had to ask myself why and look at all the factors in my life that made me who I am today.
Why did I make the choices that I made?
I did what ever it took to survive. Finding ways to kill the pain... I did more harm to myself than anyone!
Pointing at the enviorment in which I was formed is reflected in choices I have made. The enviroment I provide for my children today will be reflected in thier lives as well.
Looking at history helps us understand the present.
When I found cc it was a very tramatic point in my life.
I was a perfect candidate for a cult.
I can be bitter about the past, or angry, or blame other people, places, and things... but that dosn't do me any good! I choose who I am and who I will be.
What influance did ccbtc have on me?
what influance did I have on ccbtc?
Is it worth looking into?
Are there others who feel like I do?
Does anyone really care?
Where are we today....
Taking responsibility does'nt rule out what others did to us, but it take away the power they have/had over us.
I have allowed what other though of me control how I felt about myself. I was looking for approval and did what ever it took to get it... but it was never enough!
I hated myself for who I was/am....
God if you are real and your word is real why are we such a mess?
I looked to others and they let me down.
How many people have I let down?
I can choose to hide. Religion is a good hiding place!
I became everything I despized...
A self-rightous liar worse than those I swore I would never be like! and that was my bottom....
Climbing out of the pit...
it is hard to do alone.
Thats what I thought I was doing at cc....
but really we were just digging a deeper hole.
Who is still digging the hole and who is climbing out?
Im not standing on the top looking down
Im on the bottom looking up!
Has anyone seen a ladder?
What does Jesus see when He looks at me?
That is really the heart of the matter!
I know He understands!
So if we are His people why do we rip each other to shreads? Elbows and buttholes to get to the front....
me first!
Our testomony is who we really are!
Is it how others see us or how we see ourselfs?
Do we see ourselfs for who we really are or just who we wish we could be?
Disillusioned by all the bs do we go out and create our own?
ALL of us went off the deep end...
ALL of us will have to give an account!
Its easey to look across the way and see the speck in others eyes and wack em w the beam pokin out of my own!
So how about you Dave?
What's your story?
davidmarkbecker
03-28-2006, 09:42 AM
What specifically would you like to know?
For starters, I never heard of CCBTC until 1998.
If you haven't already, and if you are interested, you may want to check the archives on Dave Kenady's message board. I posted messages there under my own name from August 2004-December 2004.
davidmarkbecker
03-28-2006, 09:44 AM
What specifically would you like to know?
For starters, I never heard of CCBTC until 1998.
If you haven't already, and if you are interested, you may want to check the archives on Dave Kenady's message board. I posted messages there under my own name from August 2004-December 2004.
David
Oh!!! I see..... So since 1998 you have gotten a good taste of ccbtc toxic waste residue!!!!!
I took a brief peek in the archives....!
I found ccg less than a year ago... haven't looked in the archive much. Amazing what gets buried there. Seems to be a rerun going around in the same circle.!?!?
Cults are toxic and the effects are far reaching, we have only scratched the surface of the pain and damage caused by a small gathering led by bd.
How it all still contiues today is really quite amazing!
The same arrogant spirits manifest thier hatred towards anything that opposes them... in the same slimey cc faucade of christianity they hide behind! Many survivors
want nothing to do with the past.... its STILL too much to face! BUT then there are those who have differnt levels of justification.... for lying in the denial that keeps them numbed out to reality.
It can be said the cc was a complex church.... but the truth is quite simple.... the leadership was fqued up from the start and has ran from facing the issues and there are those who have this need to enable them still!????
GOD is GOD.... NOT the church!!!!
Who are we to try and define that which can not be defined in this fallen world.... and then to use our definition of God.... for our own selfish gain and to cause the damage to so many!????
I question so much everyday.... GOD how can these things happen? It says more about Us than it does about HIM!
Any way Its nice to get to know you Dave!
You never know who your talking to... and these boards have a life of thier own!!!! It can be good and it can be bad!
FN is moderated by a neutral party so it does not reflect
any one person or group of persons opinions ....
makes a BIG differance in the direction a board takes!
ct
At c we treated GOD like a vending machine. Here is what I want God, how much does it cost?
Pull the lever and presto chango he delivers what ever you want..... or so we belived.
Everything was in the spirit realm or the flesh, the two had to be seperated! That will never happen in this life!
WE were lead to belive, that if we belived correctly, God would reward us and use us......
Outside Help? out of the question! How can any one outside of the group understand?
The dynamics of manipulation and control are well understood today in the mental health and recovery feild and also by many christians!
cc is not the only example of this kind of unhealthy community! Its quite common.
Yet to belive that outsiders have nothing to offer or that they have not been affected by the behaviours of our past is wrong!
ccg is a very distorted veiw controled by a few who need to justify there own behaviours today!
The good news is that it now allows us to look back and have a very clear picture of the kinds of things that went on at cc ... and it had nothing to do with connections.
ie.... group think.
davidmarkbecker
03-29-2006, 09:43 AM
Hi "Calv," probably just as well you didn't go back into the archives. Since Dave K. is moving away from Boardhost as host for his message board, I'm not sure how much longer the archives will exist. If they are lost, that would mean that a lot of real fiascos (including one circus involving me a little over two years ago) will no longer be recorded for posterity. Although I have never been banned from posting there, as far as I know, I don't post there any more because (1) I didn't attend CCBTC and it's probably against the spirit of the thing that non-CCBTC members post there, (2) although the thing is not a church, nevertheless certain teachings are pushed there and they have a right to believe those in their own forum, as wrong-headed as they may be (you never know what absurdities are going to pop up there, in at least some of the postings--like, not recognizing the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as the "us" in Genesis 1:26, promoting the liberal book, When Jesus Became God, and musing that the second edition of Rich Kelsey's book, with the right literary agent now, just might possibly rival the sales of "The Late Great Planet Earth"), and (3) I probably said just about everything I felt warranted to say when I did post there.
As I read general thrust of the Factnet board, though, I do have some concerns. I believe in lighting a candle and not just cursing the darkness. I did not walk in your shoes, but I fail to see the point of more or less just repeating the same complaints over and over. A certain amount of "venting" may possibly be okay--but where do we go from here in correcting any problems that currently exist?
David
Fact net is like a potluck. Bring what you want... then at least youll have what you like! Its where it leads not where its been. We can all light candels .... its just some have an adversion to the sent they put out, some kind of senitivity issue....
The main thing here is cc.... what was it about? what was it like? what happend and what its like now.
Not exactly a pretty picture!
Its easy to avoid the facts by covering it up with "fluff"...
fn is not the sum total of my life... its just a fourm to talk w others about" this" particular topic... I move to other places to get something differnt.
Getting feelings and opinions out is just the begining to
correcting the problems that currently exist,,,, its a long process... were it all begins and ends, only GOD knows,
meanwhile we get what we give and then live in the end result....
steveb
03-29-2006, 06:21 PM
David,
You write<blockquote><font color="0000ff">As I read general thrust of the Factnet board, though, I do have some concerns. I believe in lighting a candle and not just cursing the darkness. I did not walk in your shoes, but I fail to see the point of more or less just repeating the same complaints over and over. A certain amount of "venting" may possibly be okay--but where do we go from here in correcting any problems that currently exist?</font></blockquote>Those are good observations, as well as a good question. I agree with your observations in general, but the fact is we are not just cursing the darkness here, nor are we repeating the same complaints over and over just for the sake of venting. That is, of course, the Chapelite view of what we are doing here, but that is not an accurate view.
The reason we are on FACTNet is not merely because it happens to offer a convenient forum where we can set up an alternative to the CCG board for people that are put off for one reason or another by the nature of the CCG board, but it is rather because we explicitly agree with the purposes FACTNet sets down as its reasons for existence. I recommend any reader of this Chapel topic area on FACTNet to also spend time on the homepage of FACTNet, browsing the documents and resources linked to there. My next two postings will have excerpts from those FACTNet documents that provide for me the reasons to participate here...
steveb
03-29-2006, 06:22 PM
From the section "WHAT IS F.A.C.T.'S PURPOSE AND PROJECT PLAN?" from the "FACTNet Constitution" (http://www.factnet.org/factpack.htm) where seven purposes are listed for FACTNet's existence - <blockquote><font color="0000ff">1) to collect, index and computerize important legal, medical, media, and research information on coercive psychological systems and to make this information instantly, easily, and globally available.
2) to monitor and expose use of coercive psychological system wherever we find it and to expose the true scope and growing use of these dangerous systems.
3) to develop and provide educational materials to help prevent personal, economic, social, religious or political abuse by users of coercive psychological systems.
4) to empower individuals and organizations, through education, to use existing social, legal, and legislative systems to exercise their legal rights to fight, stop, and/or punish the growing use of coercive psychological systems and the serious harm that results from such use to individual lives and to society.
5) to promote open dialog about and awareness of the facts concerning the growing dangers of these rapidly evolving systems.
6) to assist in the networking of individuals and organizations for whom having, sharing, and using information on coercive psychological systems is critical to preventing, stopping, or recovering from abuse in these areas.
7) to provide additional assistance for victim and anti-abuse advocates.</font></blockquote>
steveb
03-29-2006, 06:28 PM
Here is another good excerpt from the materials that illustrate FACTNet's purpose. It is a list of steps of how to recover psychologically from involvement in an abusive organization, from the founders article How I healed the psychological injuries from my abuse in a cult (http://www.factnet.org/How_I_healed_the_psychological_injuries_from_my_ab use_in_a_cult.htm). I've condensed them considerably to fit in one posting, so I recommend reading the entire article also.<blockquote><font color="0000ff">Step 1: Learn what happened to you by reading the accounts of other similar victims.
Step 1a: If you are a victim of cult abuse, thoroughly learn about the psychological dynamics of how mind control works.
Step 2: Get therapy from a specialist in the area of abuse that you have suffered. Keep getting enough therapy until you are far more functional and the cult created irrational thought loops and induced phobias are no longer controlling the way you think about or see the world. (Therapy will go far faster and easier if you really don’t skimp on step 1 above.)
Step 3: Get real angry and sue your abuser. Anger over injustice is appropriate and useful if used as a temporary motivational scaffolding.
Step 4: If you were in a religious cult and the religious abuse and spiritual betrayal has taken you away form your spiritual journey and spiritual quest it is absolutely critical to re-begin your spiritual journey and your inner more meaningful life again. Deep spiritual betrayal is among the hardest of the betrayals to overcome, but when you do you will heal faster and deeper than on any other step of the process.
Step 5: Educate others on the cult and their abuses.</font></blockquote>So, with this said, and to sum it up simply, we are here as a place to talk about the Chapel experience and to share information about it as a means to recover from it, as well as to educate others about the dangers of getting involved in either the offshoots of the Chapel that still exist or other groups that are similar to it even though they may not be directly connected to the Chapel.
movinon
03-30-2006, 02:05 PM
Good points. I completely agree, which is why I'm doing what I'm doing (for those of you that know what I'm doing). :-)
mo
davidmarkbecker
04-12-2006, 07:46 AM
Factnet's philosophical basis leaves something to be desired. A good foundation should emphasize good theology, not psychology. "O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge-- by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen." (1 Timothy 6:20-21). Of course as a message board Factnet is not that much unlike others. Basically anybody can post (is Factnet moderated at all?) and the posts will be of varying quality. Factnet posters are free to make theological or biblical arguments if they wish.
For what it's worth I asked the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod's question and answer service for an opinion on Factnet. Their response follows.
Q: What is your opinion of FACTNET, http://www.factnet.org?
My answer is based on a relatively brief visit to the web site and a relatively hasty examination of the group's self-proclaimed charter and targets. The group seeks to defend and preserve "freedom of mind" or "freedom of thought" by fighting against any and all forms of what they perceive to be mind control or unethical influence exerted by religious groups as well as "governments, corporations, social organizations, advertising/marketing, political organizations, the military and family groups." The autonomy of personal thought and freedom in forming one's own opinions and convictions seems to be the cherished goal.
To manage my own use of time I limited my examination to posted comments and a couple of recommended essays in the category of "religious fundamentalism" since I thought that would be of greatest interest to us. As expected, I found plenty of statements that I can appreciate and agree with -- and plenty of statements that I find irresponsible and unacceptable. At the heart of the matter is the premise that authoritative religious pronouncements (which would include doctrine faithfully expressing revealed Bible truth) are categorically subjected to human, personal appraisal and the individual is enthroned as judge of Scripture as well as of all other alleged sources of truth. And the criteria for individual judging of doctrine invariably reflects democratic and egalitarian ideals -- which Scripture simply does not endorse as the ideal or as universal truth.
I was reminded of charter statements of the Enlightenment and their exaltation or enthronement of human reason as the judge and arbiter of good and bad, right and wrong, truth and error, etc. Divine, authoritative revelation is viewed with great suspicion if not outright disdain. In the (useful and often appreciated) effort to abolish harmful and unethical ideology, revealed truth is also discarded or subjected to arbitrarily chosen social or political mores that are at least currently popular in the marketplace of ideas.
http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1518&cuItem_itemID=11773
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
David
Im sure there is a huge range of opinions re fact net.
Each poster has his or her own opinion(s)... and we all gleen what we want from it. Everyone is welcome.
However the focus is exposing abusive behaviours and the effects . Of course theology plays into it (esp cc)
but thats not the soul source of cultic groups.
cc decived us using theology.... our recovery uses many sources including psycology. Its much like seeing a MD to treat a disease .... sure prayer helps but God uses medicine and doctors in the healing process.
For me its a journy of discovery.... looking at the past to ensure a healthier future. It is what we can learn from each other respecting each persons boundries,
cc hurt a lot of people, as you know, and the after effects remain long after.... thier are still people waking up after two decades and begining to relize and deal w the past. There are others who have learned to deall other ways... like addictions or through denial , ignorance or minimizing it all away... it wasn't so bad just get over it and get on w your life!
For some of us this is a time to reflect on where we have been, what we did and what we will do in the future. It does not happen overnite it may take us many years. Some of us have found solutions but discover they were only temporay. Its good to hear and see where other are at who have been affected by the same thing.
ct
movinon
04-13-2006, 06:45 PM
Amen, Calv!
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