The Renato Files

[steveb]

(I've decided to cut straight to the chase and create a thread title that will guide all of our CCG visitors directly to the topic they're most interested in nowadays, instead of putting this topic in the "CCG Watch" thread in which I would normally put it.)

Somebody calling himself "Renato" (Latin for "born again," by the way) has been posting on the CCG board recently and vexing them greatly, for he doesn't appear to be interested in discussing his person, nor that of others, but only in discussing Chapel doctrinal issues. No matter how hard the good Christian folk of the CCG board have tried to provoke him with personal attacks based on the assumption that he is just another incarnation of Satan himself (aka Steve Born), he has maintained a single-minded focus on real issues of Christian doctrine instead of on personal issues. It has driven the Chapelites up a wall, to put it mildly. They've now banned him and have begun expurgating the CCG board of the postings of his that offend them the most.

Because I don't share the aim of the moderator there in suppressing information or viewpoints that embarrass the integrity of the already failed Chapel system, I've decided to make part of the goal of this board the publicizing of things suppressed there. My sources on the Chapel board have supplied me with some of the deleted postings, which I will post below with some of my own comments.

And of course since most of the Chapelites are convinced that Renato was me anyway, many of the things they accused him of were really directed at me, so I have that interest here as well.

Finally, at least one of the threads now on the CCG board ("To Renato") won't make sense without the now deleted postings. Those who are interested in this little storm need them to understand the issues behind the CCG board.

[steveb]

The moderator of the Chapel banned Renato with this posting:<blockquote><font color="0000ff">To Renato
Posted by Dave K. on 4/13/2006, 8:50 pm
67.168.106.61

From Renato:<blockquote>I want to write about Chapel doctrinal issues that I have seen since leaving the Chapel without issues of personal identity

I am not going to make your decision for you. You are the moderator of this board. You have to do what is right in your eyes in determining the nature and direction of a public board for ex-members of Community Chapel. I am doing what is right in my eyes as an ex-Chapel member participating on that board, namely, trying to stick to Chapel doctrinal issues instead of getting sidetracked into issues of personal identity, which then slide so easily into false accusations regarding one´s motivation and character.</blockquote>Would this include personal identities like:<blockquote>Earl Thurner - Founded several churches in Hawaii; travels extensively in foreign countries speaking at Pentecostal meetings.
Gordy Haddad - Has founded Olympic Peninsula General Assembly Meetings and School of Theology of Port Angeles, Washington.
Jamie Hanson - Pastors a church named The Faith Center in Yakima, Washington.
Elvin Gladney - Pastors a church in the Central Area of Seattle.
Bob Sackett and Clint
Ed and Vicki Carroll - Are seeking to start a Bible study or church in Illinois.
New Heart Worship Center of Federal Way</blockquote>???

Steve Born was banned, NOT for ANY doctrinal reasons, but for "warn[ing] against teachers who are former members of Community Chapel". You, Renato, appear to be Steve incognito, a poster who, though being caught up in being seen as SB, has no interest in any clarification of the issue that would result in his ability to effectively communicate anything on CCG. No reasonable person would hesitate to clear this mistaken identity up. I think you are Steve. Therefore, I am extending SB's ban to "Renato".

If this decision is based on wrong information, you are free to email me and clear things up.</font></blockquote>

[steveb]

My comments on the above posting by Dave Kenady, the moderator of the CCG board:

First of all, regarding the reason for which I myself was banned, it is most odd. I wasn't banned for violating any guidelines he's ever stated for his board, nor for making accusations that he can show are false. Instead, I was banned for publicly connecting preachers with the history of the doctrine they are preaching, and for warning against it based on my conclusions about it, conclusions which in turn are based on extensive personal experience with it in the only church that taught those doctrines, a church that led me into a very real spiritual isolation from the universal church and several years of darkness and confusion.

My naming of those ex-Chapelites who are "ministering" today is based on the assumption that they are still teaching the Chapel's anti-Trinitarian theology. Is it true or not that they still teach it? I am pretty sure it is. That is the thing that I warn about.

Additionally, I included in the postings in which I originally listed those names the qualification (which was not mentioned by Dave Kenady of course) that I did not know for sure in all cases that these people were still preaching anti-Trinitarian doctrine, and that I was open to correction if I was wrong in making the assumption that they are still teaching it. I asked publicly for information to the contrary. I would have been glad to post it and publicly correct myself. To date, no one has taken me up on that offer. Not one person has offered the smallest bit of information that any of these people have come out of the anti-Trinitarianism they learned at the Chapel.

In other words, I've been banned not because anything I say is false but because I expose what these people are really teaching. Of that, I remain proud, even though I've broken the old Chapel code of silence it maintained on the outside about the way "the Godhead" should be presented. After the old Chapel fashion, these "ministers of the gospel" would like to evade the issue up front, preferring to sneak it in later after they've hooked their fish in other ways ("the presence of God" is so strong there!) and carefully prepped them with their version of church history. But I've spoken forthrightly and plainly about the issue, and that is the real reason for their anger against me (and of course, in their minds, against Renato by extension.)

[steveb]

Finally, here's one of the deleted postings of Renato that I promised above I'd include here. Renato replied to Dave Kenady's posting above with this posting of his own:<blockquote><font color="0000ff">Re: To Renato

Posted by Renato on 4/13/2006, 10:04 pm, in reply to "To Renato"
207.195.242.44

Dave,

Your decision's based upon what I know to be a biased, vindictive, and subjective judgment instead of upon a fair and objective one. Therefore my conscience isn't bound by it.

Here's something kind of weird, though: This is Thursday of Easter week. In the church's liturgical calendar, it's known as "Maundy Thursday" - the day of Christ's last supper with his disciples, and then of his betrayal by Judas, arrest on false charges by the Jews, and bogus trials before the Sanhedrin and Pilate.

I bet you didn't realize that. Not that I'm comparing myself to Christ or anything like that, but - still, really interesting timing, huh? Almost chills me to think about it.

Renato</font></blockquote>I agree with the observation that Dave Kenady's decision was biased and vindictive. In fact, already last autumn while I was taking a break from the CCG board, Dave Kenady had let his personal hatred of me get the best of him, and he descended into pure and simple name-calling. He wrote me an email in which he called me an a**hole [he did not use asterisks but spelled out the actual word - I use asterisks here because I think FACTNet has a filter] and said, "I may decide to ban you just because I think you're a jerk... So sue me."

So Dave was going to ban me before I ever publicly identified the Chapel-influenced ministries that I know about. The "list" was not the actual reason, it was just the first opportunity that happened to come along that would give him some plausible justification in the eyes of the outside world. He and I already knew the real reasons (i.e., Dave's unreasoning anger at my "anti-Chapel" viewpoint). Renato unfortunately walked innocently into the vortex of those issues.

Well, for lack of time, this is all I am going to post on this thread right now, but there's some more good stuff coming soon...

By the way, Renato's got a good Christian theology blog at http://spaces.msn.com/xtiandoctrine.

[calv]

Steve

Renato .... an interesting study!
Quite a stir was caused.... why?
Just because it was assumed that You where Renato,
therefore (they) must be eliminated!