Satan in disguise

[thekingsent1 (thekingsent1)]

Listen...The Pope is the man of lawlessness, the roman Catholic church is a synagog of Satan, and MOTHER MARY IS SATAN in DISGUISE. The image of the beast,'Mother Mary,' will come to life. If you refuse to worship her they will kill you just like they killed the heretics before you. The Roman Catholic church is THE HARLOT of REVELATIONS. Furthermore...She is the MOTHER of Harlots...If she is a mother; who is her children?????? Well, her children do like their parent, which is to teach totally false worship of God, which is not included in that book called the word of God....Jesus makes it clear that the proper way to come to God is by FAITH in him alone, along with a true repentance....What do our supposed churches of God teach???? Go to mass, eat a stupid wafer, do good works so that you can get into heaven, bow to a cross, say repetitive prayers, get water baptized( by the way...if water baptism actually gave one the Holy Spirit...then that means that Hitler had Gods Holy Spirit, as he was baptized into the Roman Catholic Church....guess what...John baptized with water...God baptizes with the HOLY SPIRIT....Hello!!!!),obey nonsensical sacraments wich only takes away from the glory of God, obey false holidays( Listen up PLEASE! The name Easter is from a PAGAN SEX GOD called Eostre..GET IT NOW...sex like a rabbit? Now if you think that God thinks that it is okay to celebrate his Son's terribly painful sacrifice on a day named after a pagan sex god with rabbits...You really had better think again.), and on and on our churches teach us...LISTEN Satan is not a nitwit...He does not set up traps so that you know they are there. He covers his trap with a tarp so that you will walk right into the hidden pit. The churches look holy, they even look like they are put in place by God...but this is not the case as all of their teachings takes away from a finished work that God has already completed. The synagog of Satan is the roman catolic church and her children....Mother Mary is only Satan in disguise....She will come to life people, as this is the last great trick sent to those who REFUSED to believe the simple gospel truth. AGAIN...Satan is Mother Mary in disguise....The pope is the man of lawlessness...AGAIN...look at Daniel 7 and from out of the Roman Empire a horn pops out which changes Gods laws, times, and kills the TRUE people of God....Hello people....That is exactly what the pope and his church did for 1260 years.....and thay will do it again...for one last hurrah....Satan IS mother mary in disguise..... here is a site that holds Good factual historic information,,,that I pray can open your spiritual eyes so that you can see...biblicalhistorytimeline.com....find the truth for yourselves.....

[sue (sue)]

So tell me, how do you <u>really</u> feel about the Catholic church?

[pro610 (pro610)]

thekingsent1,
You are possessed by demons.
Seek help quickly.
Pray to Jesus for help!

I,ll Pray for you.

Submit yourself to Jesus

Submission to God includes:

a. Confession of all known sin.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9).

God knows all the nasty details of what we have thought, said and done. He can't be shocked by our confession of what it was. But he requires us to open up our hearts and share with Him our shame, so He can take it away. We get close to God when we confess the things in our hearts and wait before Him.

Until confession of sin occurs, demons have a legal right to remain. One of our biggest mistakes though is to take our eyes off Jesus. Let Him empower you to confess your sins.

b. Repentance from all known sin. (Luke 13:3)

God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). Jesus said to the church at Laodecia, "Be zealous and repent" (Revelation 3:19). A half-hearted turning to God won't cut it.

Repentance is for Christians. If we still want to open the door for the devil through sin, what is the point of trying to cast the devil out? We will reap what we sow. Its wise to turn from sin.

c. Renunciation of Satan, occultism, idolatry back even to the 4th generation

Vitally important here is the renouncing all contact with Satan. You must totally repudiate the occult in all its forms if you hope that the devil will leave you. Even a visit to a fortune teller, a psychic or a witch counts as occult involvement, and will get demons into you for sure. They won't leave easily either, unless you take a firm attitude. Destroy any idol, fetish, unclean or occultic book or magazine in your home (see Acts 19:19).

Your prayer to God should also include a renunciation of all generational curses and occultic activity or idolatrous worship of your parents, grandparents, great grandparents and even great great grandparents. You must renounce the sins of your forefathers, because these open the door to oppression in your life and you need to cut it from you by a verbal renunication.


c. Forgiving all those who have hurt us or we feel inclined to complain against. (Read Colossians 3:13; Matthew 18:35; Mark 11:25).

If you find yourself complaining about someone, don't be deceived, you need to forgive that person from the heart.

Forgiving others is absolutely foundational to getting free from curses and demons. At some point we have to forgive and break the vicious circle of wrongs, offenses, and bitterness leading to further bondage and unhappiness.

True emotional healing is strongly tied with the grace to forgive others for the injustices - real or imagined - which they have committed against us.

Jesus said in Matthew 18:35 that if we do not forgive our brother from our heart, God will hand us over to the tormentors. The demons are the tormentors. You cannot even be permanently forgiven by God if you will not forgive others, and your prayers won't work either. This one sin of unforgiveness explains about 50% of the problems in the church today, and one of the major reasons for our powerlessness and frustration.

d. Making restitution or confession to others for past wrongs.

For example: if you stole a stereo from someone God expects you to give it back. If you have spoken malicious gossip against a brother God expects you to make it right to the best of your ability by a public confession if necessary. All this is not easy but it opens the door for God to move.

e. Trusting God completely for salvation and deliverance through the blood of Jesus alone.

Don't get caught into the trap of trying to establish your own system of attaining righteousness based on a system of ritual, fasting, penance or whatever. Get back to the simple good news of Jesus' sacrifice in your place and thank God for His gift of righteousness.

f. Calling on the name of the Lord.
“Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be delivered.” (Romans 10:13).

To be delivered you must be desparate. Calling upon Jesus verbally, crying out to Him has power. Once God has led you through the above steps, call upon Jesus to set you free. He will do it.

7. Resist the devil and he will flee from you (James 4:7). Having fulfilled all the previous steps it is necessary to resist the devil. This word “resist” used here is not a passive resistance, but an active resistance. You have to command the demons to go. You must throw them out violently. Jesus said that those who believe in Him would CAST OUT demons in His name (Mark 16:18). Use the principle of Mark 11:23 - do not doubt that what you say will come to pass! It takes an attitude of spiritual violence, of aggressive faith but God has given that faith to you!

You can call them by what they produce e.g. "Spirits of fear, get out of my life in the name of Jesus!" No longer do you listen to the voice of spirits, and their arguments designed to discourage and undermine your faith. Now, in the name of Jesus, knowing that God is with you on this, you tell them to get out. Expect they will leave and act on your faith, expelling them physically by breathing out.

When demons no longer have a legal right to remain, they have to go. They may resist, but your faith and God's anointing will make them want to leave! They find God's presence and power tormenting (which is why they do all to stop a Christian tapping into the power of these things!). Know that “greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.” (1 John 4:4).

You must expel the demons (Mark 16:18). Jesus said those who believe would expel demons. Expelling involves an act of the will and a breathing out. The word for spirit is the same as the word for breath in both Hebrew and Greek. Often you will feel the spirits coming up as you breath out. Different manifestations such as coughing or vomiting are possible at this point - but are not essential to deliverance. Let them happen if they start, but don't let the demons talk through you, if possible. What is important is to be sure you get them out and that you keep them out.

8. Maintain your Deliverance by Drawing Near to God at all times.

“Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.” (James 4:8). In practical terms this means:

a. Develop a lifestyle of praise and worship, for God dwells in the praises of His people (Psalm 22:3). Rejoice always. (1 Thessalonians 5:16)

b. Pray always (1 Thessalonians 5:17). Keep seeking God through prayer. Develop communion with the Holy Spirit more and more. Through a life of prayer you can be full of the Holy Spirit as God requires - and then you will not be empty so as to leave openings in your life for evil spirits. Ephesians 5:18 says, "Be filled with the Holy Spirit."

c. Give thanks to God always (1 Thessalonians 5:18). Thank God for your deliverance. Thanksgiving puts us on an upward path, strengthens our faith and solidifies our healing (Luke 17:14-19).

d. Hear the word of God and do it (Luke 11:28). It is significant that this instruction follows directly after Jesus’ teaching on the way evil spirits seek to return after they are cast out. Matthew 12:43- 45 reveals that the man’s problem here was that he was empty. That is why we must get filled with the Word and the Spirit to maintain total deliverance. This is what God wants for our lives.

9. Let love be your goal and motivation in all things.

(1 Corinthians 16:14; 1 Corinthians 13; 1 Corinthians 14:1)

The purpose of God is that we walk in love. We must keep our minds on God’s love and how we can love others, and not get on an endless hunt for demons. God’s main purpose is to build us up in love. This is something positive for us to do and seek. Doing the positive will of God will enable us to avoid the negative traps of Satan. We must always keep Jesus in mind and seek to use our knowledge of deliverance to serve others and as a tool to help them both enjoy God more fully and also to fulfil God’s destiny for their lives.

May God bless you as you put these principles into practise in your own life and in the lives of those to whom God leads you to minister deliverance in the mighty name of Jesus Christ!

[thekingsent1 (thekingsent1)]

To Mr Pro 610:

Unfourtunatly, your spiritual discernement is quite lacking. For some reason you have not understood that the R.C.C. is the synagog of Satan.
Furthermore...you have not discerned that the pope and his title is a BLASPHEMY!
No man has the right to say that he is taking the seat of Jesus. A man...claiming to warm Gods seat while is is gone...Hello! God is still here!
You have lacked complete discernment in understanding that Gods true people...and his true church(which is his people, not a building) could not rape, pillage, rip breasts off, rip vaginas out, boil people, hang people, steal, maim, rip tongues and ears off, abuse kids and women, drink from gold cups, hide the bible from people, teach false doctrine, teach false holidays, teach lies, and on and on.
Gods true church could not have thrown the whole world into the dark ages...if it was from the God of light.
Gods true people would not teach that we are supposed to celebrate his Sons resurection on a day named after a spring sex goddess with flickin rabbits.
Gods true people would not teach that it is okay to celebrate his Sons earthly date of birth on a known pagan gods birthday.
Unfourtunatly...you have not discerned where the demons are living.
Furthermore...You have not discerned the Bible, as you cannot understand that the Harlot of revelations is sitting on the city of 7 hills.......Rome IS the city of 7 hills....
Before you go on and explain to me about things wich you do not understand...You first should study and know what you are talking about.
I do not want to sound mean but you are still blinded by the god of this world....as I once was....
I went to catholic grammer scool from 1st to 8th grade. I went to a catholic high school for 4 years. I was water baptized catholic, as I went through all of their nonsensical sacraments.
I rebuke and recant anything ever recieved from this work of satan.
They take away from the FINISHED work of God!
They try to teach an endless amount of heresy, lies, and false doctrine....And none of what they teach lines up with the book of God...
God, HIMSELF, has sent me....And all the powers of Satan cannot stop me from doing my ordained job......which is simply...TO TELL THE TRUTH SO THAT SOME WILL BE SET FREE AND APART.
If you cannot understand nor distinguish that the Holy Roman Empire was the sea beast in revelations...That the earth beast will be a reborn Holy Roman Empire...and that the Harlot, which is the Roman Catholic Church...RIDES ON TOP OF THEM....then I pray that you turn to god and not man so that he will allow you to see what you have not been able to see....

[pro610 (pro610)]

thekingsent1
Satan has his grip on you.

I pray the Lord Jesus Christ helps you.

[atagirl (atagirl)]

pro610

I know thekingsent1 post sounds crazy to you. As a former practicing Catholic, it did to me also when I first heard about this theory, however when I started to research it, I found that most Christians outside the Catholic church believe this to be true.

The more I studied and learned the scripture, and knowing my catholic facts from upbrining, I could see why it makes sense.

I urge you to search out for yourself what "thekingsent1" is trying to teach you.

atagirl

[pro610 (pro610)]

Atagirl,
I have searched and I found it to be quite opposite of what you think.

Has the Catholic Church made mistakes?
Yes ,so has the Protestant Churches along with many non denominational Churches.
One can easily look at Martin Luther,s life and clearly see many problems with reformation.
The problem is that "Man" tries to interfere with God,s plan.
God sometimes lets this happen but he will use it for His plan .
The fact is that the Catholic Church faces persecution based on much heresy.
The protestant reformation has contributed to some of this by the twisting of their interpretation of Scripture.

I doubt anyone on these threads will deny the worldly excesses of the Latin Church in the period beginning before the Great Schism and extending up to the Latin Council of Trent. The world got into the Roman Church, just as it had in earlier times in the Eastern Church. But the fact is that the Reformers had a known alternative in Orthodoxy which they chose not to accept. They chose not to accept it not because Orthodoxy, to their mind, shared the "oppressive" practices they attributed to Rome, but rather because they chose to reject basic elements of The Church's theology which the entire Church had believed and preached for 1500 years.


Peace in Christ

[pro610 (pro610)]

Atagirl,
I have searched and I found it to be quite opposite of what you think.
Has the Catholic Church made mistakes?

Yes ,so has the Protestant Churches along with many non denominational Churches.
One can easily look at Martin Luther,s life and clearly see many problems with reformation.
The problem is that "Man" tries to interfere with God,s plan.
God sometimes lets this happen but he will use it for His plan .
The fact is that the Catholic Church faces persecution based on much heresy.
The protestant reformation has contributed to some of this by the twisting of their interpretation of Scripture.

I doubt anyone on these threads will deny the worldly excesses of the Latin Church in the period beginning before the Great Schism and extending up to the Latin Council of Trent. The world got into the Roman Church, just as it had in earlier times in the Eastern Church. But the fact is that the Reformers had a known alternative in Orthodoxy which they chose not to accept. They chose not to accept it not because Orthodoxy, to their mind, shared the "oppressive" practices they attributed to Rome, but rather because they chose to reject basic elements of The Church's theology which the entire Church had believed and preached for 1500 years.


Peace in Christ

[thekingsent1 (thekingsent1)]

Pro...
Mr matin luther WAS NO MAN of GOD EITHER....
Type this in on the net...The Jews and thier lies...
What martin luther wrote makes it BEYOND obvious that he was no man of God either.
Furthermore..their is a passage in matthew(maybe Matthew 22 or so, sorry, no Bible on hand) where Jesus explains that those who treat these brothers of mine well...will be on the sheep side, as those who do not will be on the goat side.
These brothers of mine are the physical people of the physical Jewish bloodline. He knew that he was going to scatter the bloodline Jews for rejecting him, as Satans church went after them.
Same thing that martin luther was preaching, as this proves he was a goat too!

[ezekiel_37 (ezekiel_37)]

The man of lawlessness is the man of perdition, is the serpent, is Satan, is Lucifer, is the king of tyre, is the king of babylon, is the snake, .......

The false prophet, the anti-christ, the devil are all the same entities no matter what title is given.

not a man, but a fallen angel with supernatural powers.

peace
c

[arron (arron)]

i do not know if the pope is the antichrist or not. i will not be here when he is revealed i will be with the other saints in heaven for JESUS is coming to geet us before the tribulation. but i fell that the antichrist will come from the catholic church. he will have to be someone who can claim kin to the jews, since they would have no non jew over them . the antichrist will be a deceiver of the world.

[infoman (infoman)]

No the pope is not the anti-Christ. That is not scripture just speculation.
We’ve heard all of our lives, “The Pope one day would become the Antichrist.” I see that as no possibility from the scriptures when I examine the Antichrist from the scripture as a major diplomat, with tremendous military savvy and very capable in all of the fields of leadership. And of course, he is homosexual. The False Prophet in the book of Revelation beginning in Chapter 13 is a renowned religious leader. False religion but becuase the mainline church will no go along with heresy, this seems to be a joining together of another segment of people setting up their own religious break off from mainstream Christianity.

[thekingsent1_again (thekingsent1_again)]

The Pope is the man of lawlessness..all popes=men of lawlessness.
These Mother Mary apperitions are not the true Mary that birthed Jesus.
There is one thing that I must correct....
I cannot say for certain that the image of the Earth Beast will be Mother Mary...
This is my guess, as it is not a proven fact.
Since I know that Satan wishes to be worshipped, and that the apperances as Mother Mary is him...it makes sense that he would appear as her to be worshipped.
I just cannot say for CERTAIN that what is spoken of as the Earth beast (image) will pan out to being her in disguise.
If it occurs...then i will know.

[ezekiel_37 (ezekiel_37)]

It is not the Anti-Christ AND the man of Lawlessness, they are the same entity

king....

the image is given a deadly wound and then survives to take over the world (until the true Messiah returns).

IMO, the earth beast is the New (soon to be complete)1 world political system, and it is defeated (almost) by the current system (USA and other markets). At the 1/2 way point of the trib. and rise of this NWO, the devil(Satan, anti-christ) will arrive, claiming to be Christ and save the 1 world system. This system will then gain immidiate strength as the world falls into place under the control of the anti-christ, who arrives under the veil of peace and prosperity.

[ezekiel_37]

King.......

Who would people worship more

Mary or Jesus?

The man of Lawlessness claims to be God in Jerusalem on God's Holy Mountain. It's gotta be Jesus.....

[ezekiel_37]

the Jews accept him as Messiah....can't be Mary

[yaakov2]

We only worship G-d.

You can keep your god-on-a-stick.

[spiritoftruth]

I don't understand why we all profess we are better than each other and we slander each other, when Jesus said "love one another as I have loved you" Where is love in all these slanderings? Even we should not worship Mary, before saying that she is a harlot, all christians has to remember that she has done God's will and has helped greatly in our salvation. It easy to sit here today and slander her, why none of you would have accepted that calling (risking her life because no would have believed that she conceived of the Holy Spirit in those times where Jews has strict laws)! Any christian that blaspheme the one who carried our savior is not worthy of being called christian. When you attack the womb that carried our savior, you are attacking the savior too. So all those who slander Mary's name, has to remember that their hatred towards her is displeasing to God, for God himself chose only her and found her to be worthy for this calling. Or do you think that she was just an object that has just been use and forgotten by God and that now she should be forgotten? And that now you can taint her and God will be pleased with you??? Open your bibles and read those lines which says "Hail Mary full of grace..." and remember the saluation of the Archangel Gabriel towards Mary before you slander and talk out of hatred. The Lord when he was dying, told Saint John : "son this is your mother and mother this is your son" Has anyone of you ever thought that Jesus was giving a "Blessed Mother " to take care of her spiritual children and pray for them? May be it is just easy spewk hatred twoards Mary because you are against the catholic church.

[ezekiel_37]

prophecy Yaakov,
whether you believe it or not does state that when the Messiah arrives the Jews will take Him as theirs.

Christianity believes in two arrivals one past and one to come.

The one to come - mary cannot be the image of God to be worshipped because of this fact....

The Jews will not follow Mary!

Yaakov....this thread is entitled Satan in disguise....

We only worship God too!

Some have a distorted conception of God, thinking He can be three and not One but even those who believe this still worship God.

The man on a stick....comment is uncalled for and just mean.

me thinks that you will mourn one day for Him.

God manifest as man.


Satan in disguise as the Messiah......

and the prophecy's state that the Jews will be fooled by the false Messiah.

[arron]

yes for the jews will see and know that THE MESSIAH has come..the man on a stick is not JESUS that i am serving JESUS was hung on a cross, nailed there for me and for any one else who will receive HIM, in fact HE died for the whole world.

[yaakov2]

ezekiel_37

Yes, my comment was rude. I meant it to match to your rudeness. You know perfectly well that according to Judaism the messiah hasn’t arrived. Yet, you used present tense in your post as if we accept your god as legitimate.

I know that once the Messiah arrives, you will abandon your idol worship and recognize the one true G-d. That is the meaning of the prophecy, “All shall come to know G-d”.

[arron]

you will come to KNOW HIM TOO YAAKOV. i pray it wont be too late

[ezekiel_37]

Yaakov....

My statemant was not meant to offend you.

I know you do not believe in the Christian account of the end times.

The prophecy I was refering to is found in both the old and new testiments.

The false Messiah, the one who comes instead of Christ, will fool the entire world, including Jews.

I did not mean it to sound like I was refering to the present!

Since you do not believe in these prophecy's anyway, why does it offend you so.

I have tried to be courtious with you and have asked a few questions of you to gain a Jewish prospective.

I was not attempting to be rude...I guess that is the difference.

[yaakov2]

ezekiel_37

Oh, I get it.

You were giving a short answer regarding a prophecy in the Christian bible. And I thought you were making a statement about Judaism. So many Christians post “The Jews believe this…” and the “Jews believe that..” without having a clue of what they are talking about. I just assumed you were doing that, too. Sorry.

<font color="0000ff">The prophecy I was refering to is found in both the old and new testiments. The false Messiah, the one who comes instead of Christ, will fool the entire world, including Jews.</font>

I don’t really read the Christian bible. However, a prophecy about a false messiah doesn’t exist in the Jewish bible. This is a section in Deuteronomy that tells us how to recognize a false prophet. But, it is a test, not a prophecy.

[apilgrims]

Dear Spiritoftruth-
It's okay, my dear, they know not what they do. Pray hard for them and for all of us, that we remember to speak the truth in love. It's so hard sometimes!
God bless your dear love for Jesus and the Mother He loved and honored so well.
Good night.

[thekingsent1_again]

Please.....

Just think on this for a while....
Now why would God send Mary to be worshipped?
What made the Lord extremly ticked off, above all other sins commited by man?
Worshipping something other than him!
The bible explains this fact to us over and over again.
So then why would he send a human female to earth to recieve worship to herself?
I have heard over and over and over again, by Catholics, that they do not worship her, yet only exahult her, which is a complete lie!
Then if this apperition is not mother Mary, then who?
Then if it is Satan, why would he be doing this if it did not have a goal?
What I mean is.....This trickery work of Satan must be for a reason. This work of him must have a payoff somewhere in time. It would make no sense to parading around as Mary, and then never recieve a benefit from it.
This is why I am saying that she is the image of the Earth beast that comes to life.
Just think about how many millions would obey her if she appeared?
Think about it!

[ezekiel_37]

The Muslims nor the Jews would ever follow her so it won't be her

they will however follow the one who they think is their Messiah or Redeemer as the False Jesus line of thought seems to be able to fit the prophecy concerning the whole world being deceived and following the one world religion...including Muslims and Jews!

[apilgrims]

Dear kingsent1_again,

What is the point in any Catholic trying to tell you we don't worship Mary, if you simply will not believe us when we say it?

Think carefully before you depart from Christ's own footsteps, wherein He fulfilled the Law perfectly, including honoring (not worshipping) His mother.

God bless and keep you-
Nancy

[ezekiel_37]

I have said many Hail Mary's in my life and
if that was wrong then I did so in ignorance and
have since asaked for forgiveness from ALL my sins including that one.

Now, upon reflection, when I would say a Hail Mary, I was actually praying to Mary, for her to interseed on my behalf to the Father...

Now that I have studied outside the RCC I have come to the understanding that what I did was indeed wrong.

We receive all things through Christ
We need not go through any Saint or Mary to 'get' to God

Now, Catholics do not see this as Worship, but now, as an outsider looking in, I do see this practice of saying the Hail Mary's sinful, mostly done in ignorance but taught so by the traditions of man and not the Word!

for in the Word Jesus stated that we are to pray to the Father in His (Christ's) name, not Mary's or any other's.....

and besides that...saying that prayer over and over again is chanting....repetitious prayer is not from the heart and is not productive....

Peace
c

[apilgrims]

Ezekiel-
I surely do appreciate the kind spirit in which you write. Can I make one point? The Bible cautions us against "vain" repetitions, not merely repetitions. I have heard many dear Protestant brothers and sisters pray and they repeat many phrases again and again- and there is nothing wrong with it because it comes from a faithful and loving heart- nothing vain about that.

I just wish we Catholics could be given the same benefit of the doubt when we say we are praying the rosary out of a full heart and we say we are not worshipping Mary, but asking her help as I ask you for help; I wish we could be believed (we are having the discussion about saints' intercession on another board...).

I know there are Catholics and other Christians who are mistaken in their prayers, and mistakenly or carelessly ask saints to "do" this and that for them besides intercede- and that is wrong. I know there are Catholics and other Christians who pray in vain, either repetitiously or not, without even thinking about God, or substituting their own idea of God for Him who Is.

But can't we recognize that this is a snare for all Christians, not just Catholics?

God bless and keep you.
Nancy

[ezekiel_37]

Saying the rosary is praying is it not!

You are saying.....in a way......"my prayer is not good enough Lord! I can't reach you Lord!, but Mary, she's good enough (which she was) she can INTERSEED for us and 'get' God's ear!

We have an interscessor already in the Holy Spirit and We pray to NO ONE ELSE but the Father, not to any angel nor messenger, nor spirit (for there are evil familiar spirits out there),

but only to the Father, who is God!

Don't pray to grandma, uncle Tom, Elvis, St. Peter, Mary or Satan......

only to the Father.
That should be pretty easy to understand.

I don't say this to hurt anyone but to shed light on a subjest that seems to have been allowed to grow into this abomination prayer.

Does any practising Catholic believe that saying a rosary is NOT praying?

'cause in my opinion it most definately is, even if you say, pray for us sinners....you are still praying to her, to pray for you.

No other is neccessary to have a personal relationship with God. Ask and ye shall receive in His name, not her name.

Peace be to Mary and I know she was a wpnderful woman but jsut a woman non the less....and not God.

[apilgrims]

But Ezekiel-
that's NOT what we're saying when we say the rosary- we're simply asking Our Lady's prayers for us- just as you would ask your grandma, or uncle Tom (possibly not Elvis) to pray for you!

(The word "pray" comes from the Latin "precari" which means simply "to ask")

You are not saying, "Grandma, I can't pray directly to God, my prayer isn't good enough, would you be so kind as to pray for me instead?"

You would be saying what every Christian means when he/she asks another to pray for them: "I'm praying for myself; I pray you, pray for me, too?" You're obviously not worshipping Grandma! You're praying (asking) for her prayers!
And no matter how befuddled some Catholics may be about this teaching (because they have been taught badly), that is all the teaching of the Church has ever been about Mary. As the Mother of God, we should all love and respect her, and be grateful that she said "Yes!" to God; and as our sister, it is as appropriate to ask for her prayers as it is to ask for yours or mine.

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the charity of the Holy Ghost, that you help me in your prayers for me to God." Romans 15:30

"Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much."
James 5:16

God insists that we have personal relationships with our brothers and sisters in Christ. All worship is reserved to Him alone; but we may, in fact, we must pray without ceasing for one another. It's my second favorite part of being a CChristian... http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

That said, I think you have been just delightful to talk to about this! I thank you dearly, and ask your prayers for me as I surely will pray for both (all!) of us.

Have a blessed Holy Week-
Love, Nancy

[ezekiel_37]

You are a kind hearted person Nancy, by your words,

I have formed an opinion about this as you have.
I think it is a sin but I am just giving my opinion and I don't know everything obviously....lol

My mom is Catholic...grandma etc....
I am no longer practising with the RCC but by no means am I a warrior against them.....just wanted to give my opinion...

As for intercessory prayer...Yes it is effective and allowed......

but these are all from people who are living.
I know of no example biblically (positive and ok with God)where the people prayed to anyone else but God....I cannot find an intecession with the dead....for the dead are not to be communicated with.

I really do find a flaw in the Hail Mary's.
If one interprates the bible without example from the same bible then that's is in my view inaccurate!

Peace
c

[thekingsent1_again]

Pilgrim....

I am warning you for your sake that those who are in the R.C.C. are absoulutly tripped up by Satan. Not only the R.C.C. but also her children that sprung forth after her.
You can tell me what you want about rosarys, Mary, the pope, and the like: and I will still tell the truth, as this is my commission.
I know how I know who is who, what is what, and why is why.
And if you disagree with me, you are not disagreeing with me but God himself.
For reasons beyond my full comprehension, there are too many who have read the Bible and cannot discern what is what and who is who.
How can someone read the Bible and not conclude that the Mother of Harlots is the Catholic Church?
How can someone read the Bible and not conclude that the pope is the man of lawlessness?
How can someone who knows God celebrate his saving some from the lake of fire by celebrating with eggs and rabbits?
Are you all so dull?
How is it that one cannot understand that God's church could never have murdered millions by the most torcherous ways ever created?
And who has dulled your mind to such an extent that you cannot comprehend that such works are not from God at all?
Again, I am warning you to shake out those cobwebs and come to an understanding about the truth so you can be saved.
It does not matter to me if you are thrown into the lake of fire. Yet, I am commishened to try and pull some of you out.
I am telling the truth; and if you cannot understand this, there can only be a few reasons why.
1) You were created not to understand this.
2) You are not understanding because God has yet to call you from death.
3) You have refused the truth and accepted lies instead.
Which out of the 3; only you know.
And if you refuse the truth I have told told you; I am sorry, for I have tried.

[apilgrims]

Dear Ezekiel-
what a nice post. I thank you! And we are in the same boat- I learn more and more every year how much I don't know! We just have to trust that God has made a way for us to learn these things. Some times trust can be hard! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Quick question: do you think it's acceptable to ask angels for their intercessory prayer for us?
Blessings on you and all men of good will-
Nancy

[thekingsent1_again]

P.S. I do not want to sound mean, nor rude but if I sound all nice and kind, I will not wake some up. This is not a joke and I cannot emplore one enough their need to wake up.
People are not understanding why it is that they are breathing and what it is that they should be doing. They are not understanding that they are the dead walking and that Satan has this place in full control.
Again.....at least ponder on what I am saying.....this is all that I ask of you.

[ezekiel_37]

Hello Nancy

I, again, do not have a biblical reference for such an event....

I know that prophets spoke to angels and even tried to give them thanks and they were chastised for it!

As I stated, there must be a biblical example for us to follow.

I just don't find one with the dead.

I know that God teaches not to worry about the dead because they are with him. We are taught that the dead do not intermingle with us.

I know that God says do not pray to ANYONE else but Him, and Mary or other Saints would qualify.

We are not even to pray to Jesus but to God in Christ's name (giving us credentials)

Example....

I think that it is fine to speak to the dead through your prayers to God, in heaven...(say hi to dad for me....)

But I do not think we are given the example for us to pray to anyone of the dead to intercede.

I think the prayers are for God alone.

We are not to communicate with the dead.
We are warned against 'spriitism' which is praying to spirits to get then to help us....magic and others.

Familiar spirits exist according to the Word and they can be very tricky...

But they are not the dead.

I feel strong for this ideal but won't judge anyone because these are my perceptions and again I do not know all things or even most.


This one seems pretty easy to me though.

Peace in Jesus' Name
c

[ezekiel_37]

king....

we know some things for sure about the end times...

without adding our own supposition, let's explore all the similarities in the different prophetic accounts of what you are talking about and then see if you can convince me or I convince you of each others point.

I mean I don't wanna be deceived as I'm sure you do not wanna be aswell so....

The man of Lawlessness.....

let's start with him......

which books are he listed in.....

Peace
c

[jason12712]

peace be to you through Christ Jesus,
to my understanding, the NIV lists the man of lawlessness only in 2 Thessolonians 2:1. The KJV names him the man of sin.
God bless you

[thekingsent1_again]

Jason


a man of lawlessness is what= an individual that is against a set of laws and may promote them wholeheartedly.
It is of my regard that this man is all the seats of men called popes.
These lawless men promote and spew out laws anti- to God's laws, which were his 10 commandments.
end of the man of lawlessness!

[the_fbi]

good post 'thekingsent1_again' it's true. the catholic 'church' is the one spoken of in the book of revelation. The Lord says to 'come out of her' lest you receive of the plagues of God. The guy saying you're possessed by demons could have very well blasphemed the Holy Spirit. The Lord warned that that is the unforgivable sin. That was after those Pharisees said that what the Holy Spirit was doing in Jesus was the works of satan.

[pro610]

the_fbi
Actually it is thekingsent who is attributing the works of God(The Catholic Church that Christ gave us) to satan.But I think God can forgive thekingsent because he does not comprehend what he is doing,as for you,I think you need to explore your Christian history before you make claims that could end up in YOU sinning against the Holy Spirit!

Peace in Christ

[catholic_man]

thekingsent1 writings look like a panic attack.

As for ezekiel and apilgrim posts in this website. It is refreshing to see sisters in Christ getting along instead of all of the 'fear' babel that is going on.

I am sad that ezekiel no longer acknowledges her Catholic faith, but that is her choice. I spent years being a hard nosed Protestant until I started studying the early church including the early church fathers. After alot of prayer and research then I realized how wrong I was. Believe me, the last thing I wanted to do was become a Catholic.

A female coworker and friend of mine knew that I had been researching for a long time. Occasionally she would engage me in conversation. I always did and still do respect her as a Christian. We attended the same church for a while. Finally, I broke the news to her of what I found. When I mentioned the Catholic Church to her, she literally broke in tears and said "I thought you were going to tell me you were going to be a Baptist!"

Later on, she found her adoptive parents. She found out that her real dad was a Catholic. It brought up some interesting conversations. She is a very good woman and in the next couple of years her son should have succeeded through college at becoming a lawyer.

Well...you very fine ladies mentioned about praying to Mary and the saints. Of course, as apilgrim said it is simply asking them to pray for us while they're up there...no different than asking a friend. We have established that in apilgrims' post.

However, keep in mind that Revelation talks about the incense representing the prayer of the saints. Hmmmm! Just a thought. I would invite ezekiel to pray to God and ask him what he thinks about the rosary in sincerity. I know how it feels as a former Protestant. I had a hard time really understanding it. However the Hail Mary is in the bible in the 1st Chapter of St. Luke. Please reference the 12th Chapter of Revelation that is dedicated to Mary. "The earth opened its mouth and helped the woman." It talks about us being her children.

I will pray for ezekiel. I encourage you to keep on praying. I will ask that you do something special...enter a Catholic Church and spend time alone with the Lord. Look up at him on the cross and imagine that he did that for you. He loves you very much!

[glorycloud2006]

Catholic_Man

Now what is wrong with being a Baptist????

[catholic_man]

Hey Glorycloud,

What up?

I have no personal problem with a person being a Baptist as many good friends either are or have been Baptist.

As I have stated in other forums, the church denomination a person attends isn't going to have the power to include or exclude a person to heaven or hell. This is reserved to God's judgment alone. However, the tearing apart of Christianity is not God's will. Jesus prayed that all may be one! It is sad that people want to keep creating their own denominations. I believe it is because of a refusal to acknowledge authority.

Here's the deal: God said to love him in SOUL, HEART, MIND, and STRENGTH. Let's break it down.

1. SOUL- our souls should long to be with God.
2. HEART- we should watch what we allow in our hearts and put God's heart into ours. When we love others, then we promote God's love.
3. MIND- we use our intellect to reason about God and use it to further our fellow man
4. STRENGTH- this is where we put our mind to work by actually doing something for God, particularly by doing something for neighbor.

So to answer your question. There is nothing wrong with it from a salvific standpoint.

However, for me it is about asking, seeking and knocking ALWAYS to find truth. My search over the past several years finally lead me to the Catholic Church, the 'universal' church and the 'historical' church.

Not everyone will have the desire to keep seeking. These people feel satsified with what they have. God only judges according to the light a person is given.

I propose that people keep seeking the light, but that is up to them and not me. I cannot FORCE someone to see things the way I do or to find the same facts that I did. I admit that I do not know it all; that is for sure.

We are all united in our humanity, and for some of us in our Christianity. We should always attempt to unite, but that doesn't mean that we compromise our morals.

[catholic_man]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

Glorycloud,

Please join us over in the Doctrine / Belief / Proof / Religious Practices. I spend alot more time over there in that forum than here.

Your input will be gladly welcomed.

[glorycloud2006]

Catholic_Man

I was making lite of the comment to you by your friend in the previous thread.

Lighten up, I know where I am in the Lord. The holy spirit is my quide. The bible is my roadmap.

You happy? I'm happy.

I may wonder over and observe other discussions, however, I really don't have the time to contriubte much right now.

Glorycloud

[catholic_man]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Glorycloud,

No problem by me. Just so you know that on the GA&amp;COFB post, I keep trying to mellow out on the Catholic doctrine postings, but people keep throwing it up to me. Sorry about that.

Have a blessed day! I mean that sincerely.

[jeepman]

Kingsgent,

"the Jews and their lies"??? You are a nasty anti-semite. Nothing you will ever say again will have any meaning. You just destroyed any semblance of a christian witness. Baruch HaShem Adonai.

Sha-alu Shalom Yerushalayim,

Jeepman

[ezekiel_37]

Catholic_man, I realize that this is an old thread.

I haven't been on the boards much as of the last 1/2 year. But today I saw the Catholic thread and decided to visit. I had forgotten about this thread to be honest.

Thank-you for your opinion in your above post.
Please note, I am not a female. But that's ok.

I would like to address a few points.

You wrote...

<font color="ff0000">Well...you very fine ladies mentioned about praying to Mary and the saints. Of course, as apilgrim said it is simply asking them to pray for us while they're up there...no different than asking a friend. We have established that in apilgrims' post. </font>

Your opinion is that it is ok to pray to the dead. I wonder if you could find me a biblical reference for that understanding. Having a friend pray for you is fine and dandy, but it is not the same thing as trying to communicate with the dead.

<font color="ff0000">However, keep in mind that Revelation talks about the incense representing the prayer of the saints. Hmmmm! Just a thought. </font>

Yes, I know the dead can pray. But are we to ask them? Or are we to ask God? Are we to thank the dead? Or are we to thank God. I guess I prefer to skip the middle man.

<font color="ff0000">I would invite ezekiel to pray to God and ask him what he thinks about the rosary in sincerity. </font>

Thank-you. I already have, friend. That is how I received my current theological understanding. Lots of prayer and lots of study...and lots of guidance!!!cause I can't do anything without Him.
I can not agree with you about praying to someone that is dead. Not Moses, Not Abraham, Not David, Not John the Baptist...who was called by Christ....the greatest man that ever lived. And not to Mary. I will however call her Blessed.

cont.

[ezekiel_37]

<font color="ff0000">I know how it feels as a former Protestant. I had a hard time really understanding it. However the Hail Mary is in the bible in the 1st Chapter of St. Luke. </font>

I understand what you mean I think, but the Hail Mary as it is repeated in Catholic Church, is not told to us the same way as in Luke 1.

Let's review. Luke 1

<font color="0000ff">26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.


28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. </font>

The angel is telling Mary that God chose her to be Christ's earthly mother.....



<font color="0000ff">42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. </font>

One living person speaking to another, not asking for blessing, but telling Mary that she is blessed, and because she is carrying the Messiah, she is blessed above all other women. The fruit of the womb is Christ as you know and He is blessed. She did not ask for Mary's Blessing.

<font color="0000ff">43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

</font>Elisabeth and Mary were Relatives....

<font color="0000ff">44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

</font>John the Baptist being 6 months in the womb, lept at Mary's Babe Christ who was only 1 day in the womb. Life starts at Conception.

<font color="0000ff">45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord. </font>

Mary believed and thus, the Promises of God concerning her and the Child would come to pass.

<font color="0000ff">46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. </font>

She was happy and proud.

<font color="0000ff">48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. </font>

God chose her, a lowly human, to carry His Seed, and because God chose her, everyone would know 'eventually' that she was Blessed. She was indeed blessed by God.

My friend, I have not been able to find the Hail Mary here. I see the basis for the prayer, but not the thought, nor the application of example.
The basis was taken and morphed into the current prayer.

<font color="aa00aa">"Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death AMEN."</font>

I just can't find this part. It seems to me to be tradition and not biblical advice. I think that the disciples would have spoken of it, would they not?

<font color="ff0000">Please reference the 12th Chapter of Revelation that is dedicated to Mary. "The earth opened its mouth and helped the woman." It talks about us being her children. </font>

Rev12, is a parenthetical chapter and details a vast amount of time. A time before the flesh, a time during the flesh and the time of the end of the flesh.

The women in Travail represents the Saints of Christ during the Tribulation...the elect, chosen, the soon to be Bride of Christ.


<font color="ff0000">I will pray for ezekiel. I encourage you to keep on praying. </font>

Thank-you and I will. I will also pray for you.

cont.

[ezekiel_37]

<font color="ff0000">I will ask that you do something special...enter a Catholic Church and spend time alone with the Lord. </font>

Unfortunately I will not be doing that. Outside of family special events, I really have absolutely no desire to enter a Catholic Church. I have been there and done that. Too much tradition. Not enough substance. I believe that any of us can be alone with God right in our home, or in the park.

<font color="ff0000">Look up at him on the cross and imagine that he did that for you. He loves you very much!</font>

I do that each and every day. We should all do that every day. He loves you too...

...Even if we can't see eye to eye on every matter....we can still see eye to eye on the Matter that Matters.

Peace in Christ
c