New Life Church Colorado

[julieanne]

I've just been watching some press clips about the shooting that has occured at this church. The female security officer who shot the shooter dead said that they always have armed guards at the church. These are not professional security guards but church members who carry guns and take turns to patrol the church.

Does anyone else find this rather alarming? I may not be a christian any more but I'm outraged that so called godly people are carrying weapons in what they claim to be their church.

You can see the videos at http://www.wtov9.com/news/14820026/detail.html

[ultimate1]

julieanne,
You must be living in a cave.
Since Ted Haggard was the President of the National Association of Evangelicals and put this 10,000 member church in the front page news and every broadcast nationwide they needed protection for the innocent attenders from all the threats.

The security guard who stopped the killer who was carrying an assault rifle with hundreds of rounds of ammunition. She savied hundreds of lives and is a retired police officer.
She is a hero and well qualified to carry a weapon.

Large churches like these receive threats all the time from crazy people even homosexual activists. There are armed guards at concerts, basketball games, hotels and conventions. What is wrong with large churches. The world is getting crazier and more violent every day.

Pray for the people who lost their loved ones in this senseless crime. Thank God for a fast acting guard who was there to stop this disturbed crazy.

[bluewater2]

It seem to me that these aspects of the "mega churches" is just one more indication of how far they have strayed from their mission. They are reaping what they have sown.

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

M(r)(s). julieanne:

To begin with I saw the security guard who did the shooting, that would have been enough to get me to leave that church! I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but . . .. Anyway, guns? Why guns?

The reason many churches today have or allow licensed owners to carry a weapon on campus is simple. In Texas a few years ago a gunman entered a church uncontested and killed several people. Here in the United States, we have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness just like the atheist does. You will also find guns at all sporting events, political gatherings and yes even yultetide parades. We also must protect ourselves from the federal government. I presume you remember Clinton's premptive assault and mass murder at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

It is not like we were not warned. "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36 (KJV).

[julieanne]

I don't live in a cave, I live in England.

From the reports I've read the gunman was raised in an extremely religious household and had attended a training course at YWAM which is linked to this church. It sounds to me like he was damaged in some way by his experience.

When I heard the security guards interview and the way she talked about god it made me wonder what this man had been exposed to to make him flip like he did.

[bachman]

Hi Julieann--

I was a little creeped too when the female police officer "thanked God" for giving her strength. It's like when rap artists "thank God" for their songs winning Grammies, etc. Sometimes,people--Christian or otherwise--should just shut up and say, "I was doing my job" and leave God out of it.

According to news reports, Matthew Murray, the gunman worked with YWAM a few years ago but had a falling out. He had reportedly sent them several threatening letters prior to the assault.

The woman who shot the gunman with a handgun, Jeanne Assam, served as a volunteer, armed security guard at New Life Christian Church. According the pastor, "she is a volunteer--this is a person that comes to our church and is a worshiper here. We have two services--so she sits in one service and worships, and then serves in the second service as security many times."

Following the Arvada shooting earlier that day, the church beefed up its security. The pastor credited the security plan and the extra security for preventing further bloodshed.

Pastor Boyd said there are 15 to 20 security people at the church. All are volunteers but the only ones armed are those who are licensed to carry weapons.

The security guards are members of the church who are screened and not "mercenaries that we hire to walk around our campus to provide security," Boyd said.

By killing the gunman, she DID save many lives and agrees that she is NOT a hero--she was "doing her job" and everyone is grateful to her.

Like the_apostolic_truth_ministries posted, there are ALWAYS cops/security at concerts, sporting events, etc. At at this church of about 7000, there is security too. But not because of Ultimeate1's biased and incorrect posting that it was based on a threat-- "receive threats all the time from crazy people even homosexual activists."--this gunman was acting on his own and his rant was against ALL Christians.

[saygoodnightgracie]

In this day and age of disgruntled Christians attacking other Christians... security is required. 94% of Americans said last night that they felt people should have the right to defend themselves and protect their families by any means necessary...

[saygoodnightgracie]

They said this in a CNN poll...

[bachman]

(A LITTLE OFF TOPIC)
Did anyone hear about the fellow in Texas with a shotgun who saw his neighbor's being robbed? He called 911, the operator kept saying, "Stay inside. DO NOT interfere, the police are on the way."

The guy kept watching the robbers out his window--he was next door--and told the 911 operator, "I've got to do something, I'm going to go out there..."

Well, he did, and he shot and killed the two thieves! At the same moment, the police arrived.

The man said he "felt threatened" and in Texas, I guess you can use your gun in that case.

HOWEVER...the report came back that the two men had been shot IN THE BACK.
---
The Pasadena man who killed two suspected burglars as they left his next-door neighbor's home did not intend to kill them when he stepped outside with his 12-gauge shotgun, his lawyer said Friday.

In portraying Joe Horn as a victim of circumstances, lawyer and longtime friend Tom Lambright called the 61-year-old computer consultant "a good family man" who has been devastated by the Wednesday afternoon burglary and shooting.

Killed in the incident in the 7400 block of Timberline were Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston.

Each had a minor previous brush with the law. Records show DeJesus was charged with failure to identify himself to a police officer in July 2004. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 20 days in jail. Ortiz was charged with possession of marijuana in July 2005, but it was later dismissed.

"He (Horn) was just doing what everyone is supposed to do," Lambright said at a news conference in front of the Houston police memorial near downtown. "He called the police. He was cooperating with them as best he could, trying to give the police the direction of the burglars. He knew there was danger going outside."

[llm]

She should have reloaded and emptied it into him again. BANG! BANG! BANG! It's a good thing to put the fear of God into these vile criminals. Maybe it will act as a deterent in the future. Let's bring law and order back. I can't wait for Christ to return and rule the world with his iron and burn the evil people right off the planet. Amen, sister!

[pilgrim]

You can find more information by reading the messages posted from 9 December 07 in the following link.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/33305.html?1197458954.

I felt saddened and sorry for the families of all the people affected. I am praying for all the families and I'm also praying the family of the gunman. It would brake my heart if my child was responsible for causing so much pain.

It looks like the gunman was raised in a Christian family. I read that his family does not know why he did it. It must also be very painful for that Christian mother to see that her son is responsible for the death of so many people.

Family of gunman 'cannot understand why'

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3855

Quoted in the above link, "Our family cannot express the magnitude of our grief for the victims and families of this tragedy. On behalf of our family and our son, we ask for forgiveness," said Pastor Phil Abeyta, 24-year-old Matthew Murray's uncle. "We cannot understand why this has happened. We ask for prayer for the victims and their families during this time of grief. We are cooperating fully with the police agencies involved in the investigation of the events that led to this tragedy. Respectfully, the Murray family.

9NEWS has learned Murray's family attends His Love Fellowship at 8th and Kalamath in Denver. That is where Abeyta, Murray's uncle, is the pastor. However, several church members say Matthew Murray had not attended that church in several years.

His Love Fellowship elder Jim Wurst says Murray's mother is an active member in the church community."

I also wonder why he did it? I wish this tragedy had been avoided.

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

Mr. bachman:

I would watch my news sources carefully. Secondly, the information appears to contradict several reports. For example, the two robbers were within arm's length of the shooter. For your claim of in the back to be true, the shooter must have been chasing them down the street. In which case, he might have tripped and fired accidentally. That would be a wery different scenario from the one you paint.

[bachman]

Mr. ATM:

My news source is the AP:

A Houston-area man who killed two suspected burglars last month shot the men in the back, police said Friday.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5361920.html


The Houston Chronicle reported:

"The men were shot once at a range of less than 15 feet with blasts from a 12-guage shotgun."

15 feet is hardly "arm's length." The story is always updated so maybe you have more current information but "shot in the back" means they were LEAVING or fleeing, not "threatening" the man.

I don't think he or they were running--I think he just appeared outside, in his own yard according to the papers. I think the two guys were turning away, perhaps running, when he shot them.
--------
On the tape of the 911 call, the shotgun can be heard being cocked and Horn can be heard going outside and confronting someone.

"Boom! You're dead!" he shouts. A loud bang is heard, then a shotgun being cocked and fired again, and then again.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/17/national/main3517564.shtml?source=mostpop_story

[discerner]

The shooter, Matthew Murray was raised up in a very religious setting and there are ties to the scenes. But the YWAM and New Life Church has some dark history...remember Ted Haggard's homosexualtiy being exposed....judgement has come to the house of God friends.

I'm afraid there is going to be worse things yet to come. God is exposing alot of false prophets of late...many this year alone...we are in the end times BIG TIME.

Just before the revealing of the man of sin there is going to be a falling away from the faith....I'm believing we are at this point.

Matthew left a blog that people have found and it is quite disturbing....I wonder how many more are out there like him....God help this nation ...it is in trouble....the people need to repent, and so do our leaders...it is not our duty to try to take back this country...that is God's duty to deal with it....the battle is the Lord's...our warfare is spiritual, not carnal...we don't need to arm ourselves like the security guard in these "churches"...that is what happens when the Holy Spirit is grieved....that is their only protection...

I have never noticed anywhere in the scriptures where the apostles had security gaurds. Look at all the times Paul the apostle was beaten, whipped, stoned, shipwrecked, falsely accussed, and he counted all these as joy in the Lord and partaking of His sufferings. 2Ti 4:17 "Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion." Today's church does not understand the pattern ot the early church because it is apostate and relies on the arm of flesh.

Yes I am deeply saddened as of late due to the current events but in the mean time I can see through the word of God what is going on therefore the pain of this all is alleviated due to His grace. 1Jn 4:4 "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world."

http://www.thoughttheater.com/2007/12/matthew_j_murray_nghtmrchld26in_his_own_words.php




(Message edited by discerner on December 12, 2007)

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

M(r)(s). discerner:

Any chance you may have read the Bible during your course of study? Peter carried a sword throughout the ministry of Jesus Christ. Even the big man himself had a security guard!! Personally, I try to stay away from sensationalizing the news for that very reason.

[saygoodnightgracie]

"wonder how many more are out there like him"
Just look around factnet, there are many more just like him. Disgruntled, angry Christians attacking other Christians. Those who blame Christianity and organized religions for the woes of the world. Self-righteous, bitter, desperate, lonely and filled with rage... just looking for a nice Christian to lash out at.
I agree, today's church is most definitely apostate... you can thank the seeker sensitive movement for that. Have a GREAT day!

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

M(r)(s). saygoodnightgracie:

I would disagree with the statement that the church is apostate today. The church (the body of Christ) is not apostate. The secular gathering wallows bannering about the name 'church' have always been apostate. Nor am I as liberal with the word 'Christian' as yourself.

[bachman]

Actually, I agree with ATM (Surprised, Sandy?!)

I think the church is alive and well on plant earth. But I think -- like the news -- all we really hear is the "bad news".

But there are millions of Christians quietly going about the work of the Lord...and many of them are here on Factnet!

[saygoodnightgracie]

I meant to say, TATM needs to definitely take care of his PROSTRATE, not apostate.

[discerner]

The church, the body of christ is definately not apostate. Either you are in the body or out. But these 501c3 "churches" do not resemble the body of christ. These are the apostate churches who have the IRS as their head and not Christ.

TATM I guess you are the Bible Whiz and maybe I missed it in the scriptures but I cannot see anywhere were Paul swung a/his physical sword at anyone (unless one has seen Catholic art portraying him with one).Scripture tells us that Peter had one and used it in garden and our Lord was not too happy about it.
The only sword Paul used effectively was the word of the Lord, not Lord Winchester...
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:


As for the bad news, that is enough news to show us where the apostate church is going and what she looks like.

Isn't it amazing how the news can find/reveal things that the "christian" cannot?....
Luk 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

Churchianity is failing to see that there is a grave situation in church world and they are not willing to deal with it. Where is the cry for repentance as prophets of old warned the people?

How can a christian quietly do the work of the Lord?
Was Stephen stoned because he was quiet?
Was John(who was beheaded for rebuking Herod)quiet?
Was Peter quiet on the day of pentecost?

What are we to do? Sit quiet (inside the 4 walls of a building)and hope that rapture comes soon?(the rapture is another subject that has invaded churchianiaty)
What has happened to America? ......She has become quiet with THE GOSPEL.

Too many now have their own little ministries calling themselves reverands and fathers(there is only one mention of reverend in scripture....Psa 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant forever: holy and reverend is his name.) Building their own kingdoms on earth.
Who is willing to love not their own lives unto the death?

As for "sensationalizing" the news....Mat 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather today: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Paying attention, not to the weather...I'm awake...not a child of the night...Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

It's time for church world to wake up and stop being quiet.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.

[inkorrekt]

We live in times when right is wrong and wrong is right.Specially the young people are struggling with moral confusion.This young man had severe mental illness. He belonged to a wealthy family. He released his anger towards the ministry because, his health issues became aproblem for him to continue. No matter how he was raised, he released his anger in the wrong way.Homosexual activists send constant death threats to the ministers. What are they supposed to do? Die in the hnds of lunatics~~~~~!!!!! This security opfficer was there for a purpose. She saved thousands of lives. Churches used to be revered. Not anymore. This is the reason why churches have to protect innocent attendees.In view of these situations, every church must hire security guards before something becomes major headline news. Prevention is better than cure.

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

M(r)(s). saygoodnightgracie:

Prostate . . . never thought about that. I will go today and get a digital exam. Hopefully, the doctor will find that remote control I have been looking for!


M(r)(s). inkorrekt:

The security guard did not save anyone's life. The boy committed suicide. According to press releases, the security guard could not hit the broad side of a barn, which brings up another problem.

[discerner]

INKORREKT:
Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! .....This is the correct scripture for the time we live in.

We are living in times of moral confusion and sever mental illness? This is exactly what the mainstream media want the sheeple to believe! When are christians going to come out and say that all this mess is because of SIN!!!!

Released his anger in the wrong way? That is the result of SIN!!

Homosexuals make threats and we need to carry guns? I'd rather carry a bible than a gun...be armed with the word of God. What does it profit if a man if he should gain the whole world but lose his own soul?
Guess what ...many a christians are dying at the hands of lunatics in Asian and Middle Eastern countries! Guess what else, it's happening here too....might it be that persecution is at the doors?
The only cure to this mess is repentance.

And if I were to have a security gaurd, it sure would not have been her!

TATM: Hope you found your remote....hehehe

Want to know Matthew Murray's thoughts?...i suggest you read it in his OWN words.

http://www.thoughttheater.com/2007/12/matthew_j_murray_nghtmrchld26in_his_own_words.php

http://allspinzone.com/wp/2007/12/12/matthew-murray-had-confrontation-at-new-life-church-in-2004/

In closing ...is it possible that the sin of one man, Ted Haggard, had serious repercussions?
Jos 22:20 Did not Achan the son of Zerah commit a trespass in the accursed thing, and wrath fell on all the congregation of Israel? and that man perished not alone in his iniquity. ...Something to really think about.

[pilgrim]

Discerner,

Thank you for posting the above links I have noticed from the above links that the gunman was taking psychotropic drugs Anne Tracy has done an interesting research on the connection to psychotropic drugs to violence and suicide.

Please do a google search on ( Ann Blake Tracy, Ph.D., author of Prozac: Panacea or Pandora? and on Anne Tracy research on psychotropic drugs) .

Anne Tracy has been studying the violent, dark side of SSRI drugs for ten years.

The following links show a connection of psychotropic drugs to school violence, murders and suicide.

http://www.drugawareness.org/home.html

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php

http://www.drugawareness.org/Ribbon/SSRIMeds.html

Experts say psychiatric drugs linked to long list of school shooting sprees

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55310

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2004/08/26/paxil_zoloft_xantax_drug_induced_violence.htm

[formermaranathapastor]

Excuse me....I am a "homosexual activist", and I know 100s of us, and only people with severe personality disorders would send hate mail to anyone. We are just like you, we love you, but consider that you have made some wrong decisions in life, and we pray that you will change, so as to have respect for all, and to accept all as they are.

[discerner]

Pilgrim:
Those links provided by you are very good and informative.

I had to do some research on Prozac in the past because a nephew of mine was prescribed this devilish drug by his doctor.
The school he attended could not handle his hypererness and his parents who are not saved did not know better and took the advice of the doctor.
In no time he was a calmer and different person but he was having emotions never before experienced.
Why would a 10 year old child feel like he was dying? He was always telling his parent's that he was dying. He wound up in the sanitorium in a few weeks later.
Was his "dying" a one of spiritual? Were there demom's ravaging his mind? When this became news to me all I could do was fall on my face and cry out to God and pray for intervention. God did not dissapoint, my nephew was released from the san in a matter of days and removed from the drug and his parents noticed what a wonderful child they had almost lost.

Today's teachers and parents no longer have patience for children.
I remember when I was a child I used to burn off my energy playing sports, running around, etc.,and my mother used to have to holler out to me to come in for meals and curfew, instead of being parked in front of video games and computers. Indeed these drugs are starting to come to fruition.

I would not disagree with you for one second that this is a problem in today's society. Many would like to call it an "epidemic".

I feel terrible for those involved in Matthew's situation but why did his parent's who are supposed to be christians allow this boy to be fed drugs that alter the mind and soul?

We have not allowed the living God to help us with our problems and instead we turn to doctors and psychiatrists.

We are truly reaping what we have sown. There is a cry coming out from our children and we hand them over to "the experts". God's warning comes forth through his word if we meddle with the powers of darkness.

Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
That word "soceries" in the Greek is, pharmakeia. Which is defined as: medication (“pharmacy”), that is, (by extension) magic (literal or figurative): - sorcery, witchcraft.

Once again this could be catergorized under SIN.

Must any more be said and the direction this world is headed?

[cybermom]

I repeat, very creepy.

Wouldn't we all deserve God's wrath and judgment because He doesn't categorize sin? We'd all have HIV/AIDS, or some other current plague, or all be shot down in the street. We all sin, every day; thank God for the Blood of Jesus and His mercy.

Your rhetoric sounds very much like that of the cult I was involved in; very little mercy, and all judgment. One of the many reasons why we left.

[pilgrim]

Discerner,

You wrote," God did not dissapoint, my nephew was released from the san in a matter of days and removed from the drug and his parents noticed what a wonderful child they had almost lost."

discerner I am glad that your nephew can now enjoy a drug free childhood. The prescription on psychotropic drugs to millions of children is a recent phenomenon. Parents had brought up children for thousands of years without these drugs.

Have a look at the following links.

http://www.wildestcolts.com/mentalhealth/consent2.html

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/qa/22507.html

http://www.ablechild.org/newsarchive/a%20catalogue%20of%20recent%20psych%20dope%20terro r%206-30-01.htm

www.cchr.org (http://www.cchr.org)

You also wrote,"Today's teachers and parents no longer have patience for children.
I remember when I was a child I used to burn off my energy playing sports, running around, etc.,and my mother used to have to holler out to me to come in for meals and curfew, instead of being parked in front of video games and computers. Indeed these drugs are starting to come to fruition"

I agree children need to be allowed to play, to run around, play sports, etc. I think that lively children need to be brought up with a lot of love and patience and keep then physically active with any exports that they like. When I was a child I have seen children who could easily today be label as hyperactive. They were brought up without psychotropic drugs and they allowed to play and run around and today are very intelligent and balance adults/prophesionals.

[pilgrim]

discerner,

You might also look at the following link,

http://lindval.tripod.com/neurolepticsdamagehumanbrains/

[discerner]

Cybermom:

If you sin everyday, that would catergorize you as a sinner, that is even creepier.

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Sound like a cult? If you think so then I am guilty.

I didn't write the scriptures.

[discerner]

Pilgrim:

What eye popping and heart wrenching info in these links. I would suggest others on this forum read for themselves instead of shooting the messengers.
example:
An estimated 8,000,000 school-age children in this country on psychiatric drugs (Breeding, 2000).

There was a report in the archives of General Psychiatry that came out in '95 and it said, "Cocaine is one of the most reinforcing and addicting of the abused drugs. It has pharmacologic actions that are very similar to Ritalin."

CYBERMOM:
The Bible predicts that in the last days people will fall away into "fables" (i.e. psychological theories of man, etc.) and murders will increase (Rev.9:21, 2 Tim.3:13). They will be without natural affection (2 Tim.3:3). Man is now committing these horrible acts of murder because he is sinful and Satanically inspired. The Devil is using man's sinful love of money and power (1 Tim.6:10, Ec.7:12, 10:19) to dope up the nation and continue the "revolution" (i.e. destruction of America) that began in the 1960's. Sovereign nations like America must fall in line so Satan can experience his dream of ruling the whole world through the Antichrist (Rev.13). When chaos or murder is rampant, people panic and throw away their liberties. Christians everywhere need to stand strong against this lie! Christians are intimidated to embrace the new religion of psychiatry with its new "biological, medical model", just like many embraced psychology decades ago. Psychiatry, with its drugs, pills, diseases, and brain chemistry terminology, is too much for many to contend against. Why not simply embrace it, give in to the monster, and let it share a place beside our Christianity? It is a trick! Even many secular leaders can see through the scam. Replacing God's truth (as revealed in the inspired Scriptures) with psychiatric brain dope is to embrace a broken cistern:

Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water..... This is from a link from PILGRIM. http://www.ablechild.org/newsarchive/a%20catalogue%20of%20recent%20psych%20dope%20terro r%206-30-01.htm

2Co 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Cybermom, do you own a bible? If you do, and I believe you do, I would suggest you pray to God and ask Him for discernment because these are the last days and deception is rampant. 2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

God's forewarning of judgement is mercy indeed. Could you imagine a God that would not give warning before He judged a nation? I believe that would be unfair, but who am I to say what God can and will not do? Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

CYBERMOM, I also suggest you read the book of Amos and see what God does to an apostate and idolatrous nation. Are we any better?

Thank you Pilgrim for those links, they are very wise studies, you understand what is going on, if we want to "endure till the end", we have to stay sober and vigilant.

Pro 17:24 Wisdom is before him that hath understanding; but the eyes of a fool are in the ends of the earth.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

[inkorrekt]

TATM: Which world are you living in? This lunatic Murray carried a AK47 with thousands of ammunition. Can you imagine what would have happened if the sucurity guard was not in the church in his vicinity?

DISCERNER: What did I write that you did not agree with? You may check yourself if you have the gift of DISCERNMENT

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

Mr. Inkorrekt:

From what did happen, we know he would have committed suicide. That is pretty simple deduction often referred to as cause & effect.

[discerner]

INKORRECT:

I will let you thik on this and then you can go back and from post to post and try to figure it out.

Lunatic;
-as defined by a dictionary-a person whose actions and manner are marked by extreme eccentricity or recklessness.
-Greek-Middle or passive voice from a presumed derivative ; to be moon struck, that is, crazy: - be lunatic.

Mat 4:24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatic, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

POST FOM INKORRECT: "What are they supposed to do? Die in the hnds of lunatics~~~~~!!!!! This security opfficer was there for a purpose. She saved thousands of lives."

ANOTHER POST FROM INKORRECT: "This lunatic Murray carried a AK47 with thousands of ammunition. Can you imagine what would have happened if the sucurity guard was not in the church in his vicinity?"

I thought Jesus saved lives, not security gaurds. Oh, and Jesus healed lunatics.....choose your words more carefully, Jesus loves lunatics enough to heal them, but the church would rather shoot them.