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Anonymous (4.10.174.70)
07-26-2004, 01:16 AM
This is long, but I wanted to post my experiences with my former church cult and how an apostle from World Breakthrough Network has stepped in and covered up and condoned many awful things that have happened.

After attending for over 12 years,I recently left in a haze of hurt and disillusionment.The pastor became increasingly power-hungry and authoritative, repeatedly demanding "covenant" loyalty and both privately and publicly rebuking anyone who had any concerns or questions about him or "his" ministry. He verbally assaulted many of us, both privately and publicly, criticizing us, belittling us, and accusing us of things repeatedly that we never did or that were only sins in his twisted perception.

In addition to the abusive authority issues, it has been concretely proven with corroborating evidence and witnesses (more than the Biblically required 2-3) that he has embezzled more than $30,000 over the last few years. He had almost exclusive use of the church checkbook, with his name as the signer. He also evaded taxes by grossly overstating his parsonage usage. Despite the fact that his embezzlement caused our little church to greatly suffer financially, he placed the blame on the congretation, saying numerous times that we were not "bearing enough responsiblity" and that our lack of giving showed the "condition of our hearts".

He also has been arrested for a DUI. He tested positive for prescription painkillers and as part of his probation was forbidden to have any narcotics. He had become addicted to Vicoden and repeatedly obtained the drugs in violation of his probation by keeping the details of his arrest secretive and lying about his addiction in order to obtain Vicoden from church members who were precribed it for legitimate medical and surgical reasons. When he could not get enough of the ddrugs that way, he got it by having a church member steal a precription pad from her doctor ex-husband, and asked her to write illegal prescriptions to obtain the painkillers, for which she was eventually arrested. (He wasn't arrested, as he left her at the scene when he saw police approaching her. Great integrity.....)

Additionally, he and this same church member were prayer partners in an intercessory ministry focused on helping pray for people to come out of satanism. It has now been proven that over a 2-3 year period, the church member fabricated over 50 different personas that she would use to contact the pastor via e-mail. These fake persons would claim to be involved deeply in high-level satanism. The pastor would correspond with each "person", leading them to witness to them and counsel them out of satanism. Of course, all the while, the many "satanists" were reality the church member with whom he was praying. The two of them - the pastor and church member - would spend many hours interceding and praying for each "satanist" until each one, via e-mail correspondence, would relate that they had seen the light and were leaving satanism. This was a horribly deceptive and evil thing this church member did, and numerous ones of us in the church repeatedly went to the pastor to tell him that we suspected that these "satanists" were not real people, but were actually the church member pretending to be the satanists. The pastor would refuse to listen. Instead, he would berate us questioning ones for daring to question his discernment and authority and for accusing the church member of something so evil. Well, in February of this year, it was technologically proven that this church member indeed had fabricated each and every one of the "satanists", creating their respective e-mail addresses and maintaining correspondence with the pastor that would create a self-confirming intercessory ministry between her and the pastor, that their many hours of prayer were effectively getting people saved and out of satanism. Myself and another person from our church proved that the IP's of every e-mail address originated from and traced back to the church member's home or work computers. Her work was alerted to her unethical and illegal usage of computers to help perpetrate the falsified e-mails. The computer tech guy at her work was able to, without her knowledge, get screens shots of her keystrokes, concretely showing her fingers typing the fake e-mails. The pastor refused to believe the evidence. Instead, he maintains that he and the church member have been "set up" to make it appear that she fabricated the e-mails. He is too prideful to admit that he was conned and in turn refused to heed others' counsel, thus making him a part of the hoax by his willful blindness.

Yet in spite of all of this - the abuse of authority, the embezzlement, the immoral relationship, the drug addiction and ensuing illegal obtainment of the drugs, and the participation in a hoaxed prayer ministry - he is still in the pulpit. He was asked to step down, which he refused to do. Some of us have left. Some are refusing to see the truth and are continuing to believe his lies.

An "apostle" from was with whom my pastor and church have had a relationship, has stepped in at the request of the pastor and a few people in the church. This man is a member of both World Breakthrough Network and his own apostolic network, which is called Global Transformation Institute. Several of us from the church sat down with him and went through the awful things that had happened. He greatly minimized the sins that my pastor committed. He had little patience with those of us who have been hurt. He even said that the pastor didn't need to go to former members and that if anyone was hurt, it is their fault, not the pastor's fault. He said that we should just forgive and move on and keep this an in-church matter, without contacting the legal authorities. He has now deemed the situation "taken care of", as the pastor gave a generic statement of apology from the pulpit, apologizing for "those he has hurt". He never specifically publicly addressed any of his sins, and has privately either denied or greatly minimized each of his sins. This statement was made 3 months after those of us who left had already left. We have yet to hear an apology from him. I doubt we ever will. The pastor and apostle are together now heading up what is left of this church. The apostle has assured the church that with his covering and network leadership over the pastor, that no more bad stuff will occur. I guess it doesn't matter that alot already has occurred. I guess it doesn't seem odd that anyone would want a pastor who can only behave himself when he has someone watching over him. I guess adding the church into the network and was more important to this aposle than standing for truth and righteousness. He seems to operate in the mentality that a church leader should retain his leadership role regardless of what is done. Where in the Bible does it say that a pastor or other church leader is exempt from the same laws that non-church leaders are subject to? And even if no law is broken, where in the Bible does it say that a leader can say and do unethical, unGodly, unloving, abusive things and still stay in his leadership role? Leadership is not permanent. The "anointed ones" do not permanently retain that anointing and calling regardless of their actions. Where is responsibility? Where is humility and obedience to the Word? If anything, isn't the Church called to set an example in walking in Godly behavior and in taking responsibility and disciplining or removing its leaders when they fail to do that?

I have also heard this "apostle" preach at my ex-church several times before I left and was very uncomfortable with much of his teaching, which centers over and over on "kingdom" theology and "new truths" being imparted that do away with the old truths. Also, the leadership structure of World Breakthrough Network is disturbing. It is hierarchical, with the Founding Apostle at the top and different levels of apostles underneath him. They are required to demonstrate "unbreachable loyalty" to the organization among other things. They also have a large section of their website devoted to their corporate side, which has the goal to build a common supply of "kingdom finances". Kinda scary of that falls into unGodly hands...

Given my experiences with this apostle from World Breakthrough Network and having heard his teachings numerous times and having read the networks' websites, I sincerely believe there are many red flags to be concerned about with this organization. Anyone whose church is considering joining it should run, not walk away.

http://wbnetwork.org

http://globaltranformation.org

Anonymous (4.10.174.70)
07-26-2004, 01:17 AM
Well, I keep making typos tonight. The link to world breakthrough network was typed correctly, but the second one should read:

http://globaltransformation.org

Anonymous (172.161.255.249)
07-26-2004, 03:11 AM
What is this word "apostle". No modern man can be trusted to be called an "apostle". Who gave this man this title? God or man? Only apostles I know of are the apostles the Bible speaks of. Only the Bible is the infallible word of God. Do you expect me to believe that someone you know is an Apostle? There is something terribly wrong in calling a man or woman an apostle. Only God knows our hearts. Jesus is our Lord, we are all his servants, nothing more. We are each to go to the nations and speak His words. Any church that believes in modern day "apostles" is a cult as far as I am concerned. That is a manisfestation of man worshipping, not of God worshipping.

Anonymous (4.10.174.70)
07-26-2004, 03:28 AM
That was part of my whole point: that he believes God gave him the title of Apostle. The whole World Breakthrough Network is built on a hierarchy of people who believe they are apostles appointed by God to change the global church through new teachings. I believe that God can truly appoint people as apostles during any time frame, but this Network smacks of self-appointment. It is a cult and a very dangerous one at that.

Their page that describes their leadership hierarchy shows this "man-worshipping" you described:
http://wbnetwork.org/about/leadership/default.asp

Anonymous (172.161.255.249)
07-26-2004, 04:47 AM
Self appointed apostles are blasphemers.

Anonymous (4.10.174.70)
07-26-2004, 05:12 AM
Agreed.

Anonymous (142.177.10.1)
07-29-2004, 11:40 AM
Well I have a thought .What if the new thing was that all Gods Apostles were going to be women this time, would that not light the world on fire. really I mean it, the relegious leaders who are not of the Lord would burn the world down before they would hand the teaching over to women. Look in your churchs, women and children. Remember how the others acted when Mary sat by Christ. Not very pretty was it, imagine the middle east, all those old men giving up power to a woman. Well God promises a new thing and women in power is and it would certainly add to the fire. God is only sending 12 again to bring down the new city , they will not ask for money, nor build networks to fleece the flock. They will be powerful and humble as they are the Lords and not to be used as a weapon against man. Watch for it.

Anonymous (142.177.10.1)
07-29-2004, 11:44 AM
I know that it is you Sharon , I read you on other sites . Who are you?

Sharon (142.177.10.1)
07-29-2004, 12:02 PM
you my friend are fast, left the board up did I not. I came back and found your message. I* guess that I shall have to log off when I leave the room. Check the time , thats how I know. cute. love Sharon

Anonymous (172.208.18.147)
08-01-2004, 04:17 AM
Man, woman, makes no difference who spreads the gospel. As to modern apostles being sent by God, who shall we trust to verify that these are the true apostles and not false teachers? You? All this "apostle", "prophet", "godly", or "annointed" word usage is dangerous and cult creating. Apostle is a trigger word to help someone control you and live off of your labors.

Anonymous (142.177.81.132)
08-01-2004, 04:49 PM
Really, because I never knew of a prophet that lived or controlled others but then I did not belong to any of the above chruchs, maybe if I had I would feel differently.
By the time all the liars,and decievers and done there will be not one left to believe the real prophets. I did not see this before, it is so evil. But YOU will know them in your heart, trust in the Lord for this. Do they live like Jesus? Do they love like him, speak his word? No!run then for you are in the presence of evil.

Anonymous (172.167.184.232)
08-01-2004, 09:28 PM
We don't need prophets! We just need Jesus and the Holy Spirit. They are the only connections we need to God. We don't need a man or woman with feet of clay to hoodwink us with slick p.r. This is the age of mass media and slick electronic propaganda. Anyone can be decieved. Get your eyes on God, not man. All humans fall short of the glory of God. I can hear any man or woman speak the word of God and then see them turn around and do evil. We go to church for fellowship and to profess our faith to others, not to put some man on a pedestal. I avoid man worshipping at all costs. Why would I need a self proclaimed prophet or apostle when the Holy Spirit speaks directly to me?
Leave this fruitless prophet seeking alone. It is dangerous and leads only cults, heartbreak and seperation from God. Just work on your own walk with God.

Sharon (142.177.92.156)
08-04-2004, 12:59 PM
Well maybe you don't care for the word of God from the mouths of his prophets, and he does say there will be many false prophets,but he leaves it to us to know his word when we hear it. You may know Jesus and the holy spirit but not all do. You say the holy spirit speaks to you then you are one of his prophets, speak his word, that is what a prophet does. Do it fast for time is short.
Not to worry no one will put you on a pedestal, prophets of God are rarely worshipped. They have to fight to be heard over all the false prophets,. Of course men and women speak the word of God and then do evil, since when has that been different? These are your sheep.
You are not here to raise you own glory with God, you do that by saving even one of his lost sheep. You do not have to go about saying I am a prophet of God, just do his work.
You obviously have the gift of words, use them, that to is a gift.
May God Be With You

Anonymous (172.140.183.90)
08-05-2004, 05:32 AM
Read this site as well as the other cult sites. These are full blown dangerous cults that have all gathered around one charlatan and claimed he or she was a prophet, apostle or annointed and put on a pedestal, acting as an oracle, an intermediary to God, and worshipped as such. In these times those words are dangerous. Can't we all be satisfied by being humble and allowing ourselves no greater appelation than "follower of Christ"?

STEVE WESLEY (68.119.202.252)
08-17-2004, 12:24 PM
BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM... SEE THE FRUITS AND FOIND OUT IF THEY ARE APOSTLES OR NOT

Anonymous (172.208.208.124)
08-18-2004, 04:38 AM
I ain't got time to live 24/7 with every hillbilly who pokes his head above a rock and proclaims "I am a man of God. I am an Apostle."
Until I see someone sitting side by side with me in heaven, I don't know who's what or what is whom. Let God sort us all out on Judgement Day. Man hasn't got a flea's intelligence when it comes to who is speaking God's word and who is perverting it.
Humanity is like a teenage girl when it comes to preachers. Nice hairdo and a flashy smile and we throw logic and discernment away for a romp in the hay. Then on the morning after what do we feel? Guilt, for having been used. Then humanity figures "well, it wasn't me that was bad, it was him. He was bad." So the search begins again for another nice haido and flashy smile and the self abusing process starts all over again.
Stop trying to figure out who is a man of God and who is not. Just try to figure out what your relationship with God is. And improve upon that.

Anonymous (128.194.115.135)
08-31-2004, 05:03 PM
Just bumping up this thread....particularly for the section about World Breakthrough Network, as it has new posts that I don't want to see get lost...

Anonymous (128.194.115.135)
09-02-2004, 10:23 PM
bumping this up again, since spam got us yesterday...

Kimberly (4.10.174.70)
09-11-2004, 03:37 PM
bumping this up

Anonymous (64.12.117.20)
09-18-2004, 11:27 AM
just bumping this up

Anonymous (128.194.115.135)
09-20-2004, 03:42 PM
bumping this up again

Dick (207.69.92.19)
09-20-2004, 09:36 PM
"(He wasn't arrested, as he left her at the scene when he saw police approaching her. Great integrity.....)"


Doesn't sound like much of a Shepherd to me.

ohwretchedmanthatiam (ohwretchedmanthatiam)
01-09-2005, 12:05 PM
I'm always praying for the minister since I found out he fell and had a head injury and it is obvious some of his memory and in late 60's is impaired. I asked Jesus/GOD what I was to do since he was a fire and brimstone minister. The Angel loyal to Jesus/GOD said "Be kind to him!" and later I found out why. Jesus/GOD wanted me to be merciful, pray for and help him with some of my technical computer skills.

Jesus also wanted me to listen to, consider and study some of his writings. I tried to help and repeatedly went to Jesus/GOD in prayer. Jesus uses me to keep him in the testimonial of leading people to Jesus/GOD and praying for him and his family. I am thankful Jesus/GOD have helped me. I rented some space from him for over a year for housing to help him out. I didn't want to but after praying about it, meeting with the people Jesus put in my path, etc. the Angel loyal to Jesus said so you see he is responsible and it's ok to rent from him. It was a blessing to his situation and it taught me to do what Jesus/GOD had asked me to do. Humbling to say the least.

GOD/Jesus help these poor people.

mikko (mikko)
04-26-2005, 07:22 PM
many of these self proclaimed apostles are not apostles at all but like to give themself a title to look important ..some will call themself an evangelist and dont even know the meaning ,.they just think cause they preach behind a pulpit they are one ...but are far from it ..an evangelist goes into all the world and preaches the cross preaches salvation thru Jesus bring people to the Lord ..as an apostle goes also and plants churches ..not extentions of their denomination

godchild (godchild)
05-14-2005, 03:15 AM
I think we should all do a more biblical study of prophets and the gift of prophesy. I have been told I have the 'gift of prophesy' by a minister but am not a prophet. Personally, I don't want to be a prophet. It is enough to have the spirit in me to guide me. I wouldn't even attempt to consider such a thing on my own. I do not think we need prophets. Enough is enough, and more than enough!

kpbruinfan (kpbruinfan)
05-23-2005, 07:55 PM
Friends, we are living in perilous times. Based on Biblical instruction in 1 John 4 we need to pray and test the spirits. If it's not of Christ it is antichrist. Black and white with no gray. That's how God is throughout Scripture. These modern day apostles and prophets are out for their own glory. Simply put it's about man's quest for power and authority over God. In fact, some of these folks actually believe and teach that we are all Christ. Not that THE Christ will return but that those who follow them ARE Christ incarnate. That, my friends, is blasphemy. I am no expert on prophecy - not at all. Is this the advent of the Apostate Church predicted in the New Testament? Don't know. Jesus taught us to always be ready with oil in our lamps. Keep in prayer, read your Bible and use God's blessing of discernment to solve your problems with this stuff.

God bless!

ontheroad (ontheroad)
05-24-2005, 08:56 PM
bumping this thread up

seamaiden
06-24-2006, 07:40 PM
http://www.eagles-landing.org/weekly.htm

some New Apostolic Reformation teachings to listen to.