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elijah (elijah)
11-07-2004, 05:21 AM
I spent over 20 years in a Reformed Baptist Church. Looking back I see a number of cultic tendencies in that church and the Reformed Baptist movement at large.

There was so much concern about appearences. There was a definite though subtle legalism and pressure to conform to that legalism.

The 1689 Baptist Confession was often used in a way that put it in on equal authority with Scripture, and that contrary to the express statements of the confession itself.

There was an authoritarian excersise of power by the elders. There was real lack of effective accountability of the elders to the congregation at large. The elders were effectivly self-sustaining with nominal on the surface input from the congregation. They also controlled the deacons.

The pulpit was often used to bully the congregation. Berating and threatening the congregation happened on a regular basis in business meetings. Elders showed and expressed resentment towards any who asked hard questions in those meetings.

So called "oversight" was mandatory. An elder would come to the home and ask personal questions regarding family life and ect... Often they would give advice that was inappropriate and which would cause un-nessecary problems between spouses and other family relationships. Their inept counseling contributed to the breakup of several families.

And the counseling was inept. They claimed they were doing "Biblical counseling". Looking back it was often far from Biblical. And some of the elders had the gall to give cousel when their own marrigaes and family life were a real mess. One elder admitted to me that he had virtually no real training in counseling, Biblical or otherwise.

The elders spurned the discipline of exegetical expository preaching. Application often went far beyond the text it was supposedly based on.

I could go on and on. Women were second classs citizens, and could not ask questions in the Sunday school class or audibly give requests in prayer meeting. Often in relation to women the elders would beat the drum of "submission". In the meantime tyranical husbands were handled with kid gloves. Why? Because the elders themselves were tyranical in their home and the church.

Children were to be seen, but not heard. Children as young as three or four were expected to sit thorough the service with their parents and listen to preaching way beyond thier comprehension. ..and in some familes, woe to the child that even thought of wiggling...

The authoritarinism in the eldership also set the example for the husband and father in the home. Men who did not rule their home with the "firmness" with which the elders ruled the church were considered weak and less then manly. In one case a good friend came to the conclusion he was not saved, and was told he was not saved becuase he would not rule his house in the "approved" manner. Since leaving the church he has again regained his assurance of salvation, and his wife's respect.

In another family where the husband and father set an example of real Biblical servant leadership, the wife felt pressure to be dis-sastisfied with her husband because he didn't "measure up". That family left too. and in a number of cases including my own, when families left that church, there was often a marked improvement in the relationship between the husband and wife.

I know there are other ex-Reformed Baptists out there somewhere. Where are you? We need to raise our voices and let it be known that these churches and the movement they are a part of is not all it seems to be on the outside. People considering going to a Reformed Baptist church need to be fully aware of what they are getting themselves into.

jdmac1971 (jdmac1971)
02-08-2005, 05:36 AM
elijah,
It sounds to me that the church you were involved with may have had some issues. But I would strongly suggest that you not judge all Reformed Baptist Churches based on your experience with this one church. What you are describing does not at all sound like any of the Reformed Baptist churches I've been involved with in my experience}

friend (friend)
02-10-2005, 06:59 PM
Elijah,

I grew up in a Presbyterian Church in America church which mirrors what you have written. Thanks for being brave and writting about your experience. No doubt you will be given much grief for coming forth with your experience. Stay strong and know that God is there for you and can heal the scars of abuse that you have suffered under this type of hyper-Calvinistic worldview.

Peace, Dear brother.

abbie519 (abbie519)
02-18-2005, 06:09 PM
Elijah,

Concerning the Reformed Baptist sect I have had family members involved with this group and I truly believe it is very cult-like. My sister's family was involved in the first place with a SBC which was a church plant. This pastor at one point decided to change his church into a Reformed Baptist church. It was full of very strange things which were alluded to by my sister who ended up having many questions and because she did was told she was not a submissive wife. She ended up in an extreme depression and was unable to care for her own children. We all had many questions regarding this group as we knew there were not enough members to support the lifestyle to which we saw the pastor and his family enjoying. There were constant home visits and checks on the members and my sister lived in a terrible living circumstance with 3 children, no money and no heat during the bitter cold winters of our area. Her husband makes excellent money and yet there was no food in the house and little of anything. Meanwhile the pastor's family continued on in their lavish and happy lifestyle. There was extreme pressure to homeschool the children, the church expected all children including babies to be in the long service and if any of them moved made sounds or cried they were taken to the spanking room in the basement. This fact was reported to proper authorities and soon after the church closed and the pastor directed the flock to attend another similar church about 40 miles away. He left the area and started several other small versions of his church - one in a neighboring state and then eventually back in another area of our state. He was eventually investigated and found to be stealing the money from the collections - was prosecuted and sent to jail. Meanwhile the brainwashing continues in the other church - there are the familiar family check-up visits and the abusive control from the pulpit. People are ratted out and it is announced from the pulpit in front of the entire church as the so-called offender is unexpectedly called forward during the service to be publicly tongue-lashed by the pastor and then banished from the group. This is very traumatizing to the children there. It is a flagrant form of spiritual abuse in my opinion and I do not believe God ever intended that to be the way a church was ever to behave and interact. It is almost Puritanical in its rules. Women are not allowed to speak in the church - not to even pray - not even with other women. They are all in submission to the men and the elders and pastor. I have attended 2 of their services and must tell you that as an adult I was more than shaken. Before the 2nd attendance I took a tranquilizer and it helped a lot to get me through it. I will hopefully never be put in the position of having to attend there ever again.
This is not a loving or healthy group of people as I see it. The system is fear - based and there is no emphasis of the great love God has for His people nor of the Gospel of Jesus Christ being for all people. It is calvinistic in belief and all singing is from hymns sung back in the 1700's. Just a very strange group is all I can say. Surely there are better choices.

alphaomega (alphaomega)
05-25-2005, 08:20 PM
Just goes to show you abbie... what happens when there is no grace experienced and NO "gospel of grace" taught in a church. Cultic activity develops.

The sad part of this particular development of legalism is that.. centuries ago..
"reformed baptist" did teach the "doctrines of grace". If you do not believe me, spend some time in the teachings and lexicons of John Gill, the first really well known "reformed baptist" in church history. Of course we cannot leave out Charles Spurgeon as well who preached in england at the latter half of the 18th century. But even spurgeon at the end of his life did battle with the "fundamentalist-modernist" controversy. Pretty well his entire flock abandoned him on this issue. At stake in the controversy was the very "inspiration of the bible", which was at the heart of the debate. Since that time at the turning of the century beginnning of 1900s, it never has been the same for baptists. So you can see that the decline in respect for the authority in the inspiration of the bible, has resulted in such cultic behavior, it is no surprise.

You ask any baptist today if they believe in election and reprobation, and they hang their head as if you landed from mars and wonder what are you talking about. Most reformed baptists held to the teachings of election and predestination and reprobation, what baptists teach it now??? Reformed baptists I imagine still mouth and do lip service to these doctrines in their baptistic confessions, but how sad when the members cannot even expound what the bible teaches on the subject, further prove of the lack of grace in reformed baptist churches today.

sad, sad, sad.

curious1 (curious1)
05-26-2005, 04:55 PM
quote: "Reformed baptists I imagine still mouth and do lip service to these doctrines in their baptistic confessions, but how sad when the members cannot even expound what the bible teaches on the subject, further prove of the lack of grace in reformed baptist churches today."

well, from the various churches I've attended the above quote cuts across denominational lines as most people don't know how and don't care to study instead desiring only proof-texting that bolsters their own preconceived notions much like the pre-digested fast food joints they desire a pre-digested fast gospel.

friend (friend)
05-26-2005, 05:51 PM
curious wrote: "well, from the various churches I've attended the above quote cuts across denominational lines as most people don't know how and don't care to study instead desiring only proof-texting that bolsters their own preconceived notions much like the pre-digested fast food joints they desire a pre-digested fast gospel."

Goodness, you have a way with words. I couldn't agree more with what you have written.

It reminds me of a friend of mine who went to Bible College and learned how better to proof text. All head, no heart.

Bright Blessings,
Friend

elijah (elijah)
08-18-2005, 09:58 PM
jdmac1971 said What you are describing does not at all sound like any of the Reformed Baptist churches I've been involved with in my experience...

JD,

Then your experiance is pretty limited. I "strongly suggest" you read the thread at:

http://exchristian.net/letters/2003/05/ex-reformed-baptist.php?show_id=200322047

Regards, Elijah