First Baptist Church of Hammond Indiana Dr Jack Hyles

[John Cady (138.139.143.2)]

Many of us who were stationed in Great Lakes, Illinois have dealt with members of the First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana. The church was pastored for many years by Dr. Jack Hyles (1926-2001); the church also owns Hyles-Anderson University, a large Bible college in Hammond.

The website is http://www.baptist-city.com/first_baptist.htm

I recall having several encounters with the "Hammondites"; the men would approach us and invite us to load up on the bus to play football or basketball, which resulted in an overnight stay in Hammond. The guests who accepted the invite would be stuck in Hammond from Saturday night through Sunday afternoon, whether they really wanted to be in church or not. Fortunately, I was not inclined to travel with them.

I will have more to share about Hammond...if anyone else has experiences, please post them here.

[John Cady (138.139.143.2)]

When I was up in Great Lakes, running into the Hammondites was sometimes a source of entertainment. The young men, apparently students at Hyles-Anderson University, all seemed to speak from the same script:

"Would you like to go play some football with us?"

I politely declined the invite.

"I have a question for you. If you were to die tonight, would you go to heaven or to hell?"

I would share why I believed I was going to heaven. Sometimes the subject of baptism would come up.

"Oh, but that is not what Dr. Jack Hyles teaches...he teaches straight from the Bible!"

I would sometimes challenge them to read the scriptures and see if the Bible contradicted Dr. Hyles.

"Can I pray with you then?"

On one such encounter, I was in the barracks laundry room when one of the Hammondites approached me on this. When he asked me if he could pray with me, I looked him in the eye and shared with him that we do not perform our alms to be seen of men.

For many years, Hammond was never nice toward Christian Fellowship Church Ministries International (or probably any other oneness church) because of our stand toward Oneness and baptism in Jesus' name. L.R. Davis' dirty laundry didn't help things either.

However, in 1988, the church with "the world's largest Sunday School" asked for our help. The Navy was considering placing First Baptist Church off limits upon hearing allegations that the church had forced sailors into staying the whole weekend and pretty much "shanghaied" them. There were complaints also that Dr. Hyles was a control freak and First Baptist Church was considered a cult. CFCMI helped defend Dr. Hyles and thus protected their right to come on base and recruit sailors without too much hassle. First Baptist Church also modified their invitation to inform the sailors that the getaway was for a whole weekend, and that they needed to pack accordingly if they wished to attend. They were thankful to us at that time, but once L.R. got arrested and sent to prison, Dr. Hyles was quick to denounce him from his pulpit.

Looking back, I find it quite interesting how we (in CFCMI) would sit around in the fellowship hall and poke fun at the Hammondites for how they did business, but in reality we were almost identical to them in many ways.

At least I can say that Dr. Hyles lived a life free from scandal, and was true to his beliefs and his family. L.R. Davis and his cronies were not.

[John Cady (138.139.143.2)]

Here is a note from their college website:

MAYBE YOU WOULDN'T LIKE...

OUR DRESS CODE
Many think our dress code is too strict. Skirts above the knees are not allowed. Men must wear neckties to class and must have short haircuts. Young ladies may not wear shorts or slacks.

OUR OLD-FASHIONED DISCIPLINE
Young ladies are not allowed to go off campus unchaperoned. Young men and young ladies may not date alone in cars. Absolutely no hand holding or other intimacies are allowed between the sexes. There are date nights with bus transportation and adequate chaperones provided by the college. Student insubordination is absolutely forbidden.

OUR INTENSE EVANGELISTIC ATMOSPHERE
All faculty, staff, and students are required to go soul winning weekly. Students participate in the evangelistic ministry of the First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana, which builds its ministry around personal soul winning. An average of over 10,000 new converts were baptized each year for the past several years.

OUR FUNDAMENTALIST EMPHASIS
We are fundamentalists and use the term proudly. We believe in a literal Hell which has fire and brimstone and a literal Heaven with streets of gold. We stand for the King James Bible as the only Bible and the local New Testament church as the only true church. We believe in redemption through the blood of Christ, salvation by grace through faith alone and the premillennial second coming of Jesus Christ.

OUR SEPARATIST POSITION
Absolutely no drinking, smoking, or dancing is allowed. No student is allowed to attend Hollywood movies, play cards, or participate in other questionable amusements. We do not fellowship with liberals, but instead take a strict separatist stand from the world and apostasy.

OUR EMPHASIS ON CULTURE
We believe in students' learning and practicing propriety. We oppose the paganistic, barbaric humanism that prevails on many campuses. We believe in refinement, dignity, courtesy, proper manners, and Christian grace.

OUR EMPHASIS ON THE PRACTICAL
We blend the finest of scholarship with the best practical teaching possible. We teach not only what to do but how to do it. Preacher boys are taught how to start churches; how to build buildings; how to borrow money from lending institutions; how to raise money and adopt a budget; and how to organize, operate, and perpetuate a New Testament church.

The complete story of Hyles-Anderson College cannot be told in a catalog, nor even in four years of study. Only eternity will reveal the countless souls that will be won to Jesus Christ and the many lives that will be helped as you put to use all you learn here.

(This particular brand of Baptist college was undoubtedly the vision of Dr. Hyles. Proof that they have a zeal for God, and a desire to live holy, but the emphais appears to be more legalistic than on a relationship with God.)

[Anonymous (65.230.198.40)]

Sounds like a weekend with the Hitler Youth !

[Anonymous (199.141.125.33)]

Organized religion tries to run things mechanically like a corporation rather than be led by the Holy Spirit. I call it trying to program the Holy Spirit; or man-made religion.

[Anonymous (198.81.26.106)]

Wow. I've never heard of this church, but would like to know what Scriptures they use to support their doctrines of no short skirts, shorts, or slacks for women, no "student insubordination" (I would guess this translates to no disagreement of any kind), no drinking, smoking, dancing or movies (did they permit "The Passion of the Christ"?), and my favorite of the whole bunch, NO HAND HOLDING.

I understand the danger of temptation, and I believe in old-fashioned values, but this seems way beyond the pale. "We do not fellowship with liberals"? Jesus would probably be called one if He appeared on earth today.

[Tink (205.188.117.20)]

To say the King James Bible is the only bible is absolutely ridiculous, especially in light of all the important scholarship and discoveries since that bible was printed (not to mention its archaic language that keeps many from really knowing what the bible is saying

[Anonymous (198.81.26.106)]

I personally love the KJV, but I agree that other translations have merit. And, there are a number of known translation errors in the KJV itself.

However, I would beware of translations that are "paraphrases" by someone of what they "think" the Bible was "trying" to say. Some of the more recent translations might as well be ad-libs.

[Christain on a Mission (66.202.112.197)]

I would definately love to go to this college I believe that this college is the type of college that everyone should want to go to. Ilove the fact that they believe in no hand holding and that girls shouldn't have to dress in a manner that shames them. The King James bible is the best bible to read from and only people who want to live for themselves and not for God would disagree with that. A true christian on a mission for God would not mind going to this college or church and living right and as close to the King James Bible as possible. The Bible was written as a road map for actual christians so people who want to do what they want to do and not do what God would like them to do would not understand the King James Bible, and it is not because of the way it is written it is because many people are too busy living a life of sin and are too busy to pick up the Bible and ask God to open their minds and hearts to the gospel of God so that they may understand what the Bible is saying.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

I agree, the KJV is the best Bible to read from as far as I'm concerned. But where does the KJV (or any other Bible, for that matter) prohibit dancing or hand-holding? We must dispense with man-made legalistic traditions and stick to the Word of God.

[Anonymous (199.239.212.160)]

I know about this Church and college , it IS a cult. Stay away !!!

[BASSENCO (207.69.1.54)]

>>At least I can say that Dr. Hyles lived a life free from scandal, and was true to his beliefs and his family. L.R. Davis and his cronies were not. <<<


You are not up to date on the rampant scandal and accounts of abuse at FBCH and HAC. Hyles himself has been the subject of a book, WIZARD OF GOD: MY LIFE WITH JACK HYLES, in which author Vic Nischik details the lies and manipulation used by Hyles to steal the affections of Nischik's wife and break up their marriage.

Additionally, stories of sodomizing of children by HAC grads and a case of child molestation right at the church were all attempted to be hushed up by the Hyles machine. A Detroit news station did a documentary called PREYING FROM THE PULPIT on the excesses and scandals of Jack Hyles.

Check my blog for more details:

http://www.pipeline.com/~jeriwho1/blogger.htm

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

One question. why are there no blacks at Hyles Andersons bible school?

[John Cady (68.111.102.17)]

Good question. I looked at their website, and it looked like there were only white students in attendance.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.12)]

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[Anonymous (152.163.101.12)]

I was surprised to find that some doctrines of Hyles are also taught at another cult, Greater Grace World Outreach, situated in Baltimore, Maryland. The founder Carl Stevens apparently had some connections to Hyles (unverified) and he teaches the same kind of mind manipulative stuff, that I've also found when reading about this ministry, making people worship him instead of Jesus.
No holding hands, KJV as the only Bible etc. has also been taught at GGWO and the same kind of scandals involving adultery can be found there.
If you do still have doubts of this ministry being a cult, go and check what people say about GGWO at this discussion board. You may be in for a surprise.

Susanna

[BASSENCO (207.69.3.67)]

I checked the Greater Grace World Outreach board. A couple people noted that Carl Stevens listened to Hyles tapes pretty avidly.

As I said earlier, I document abuses in the IFBx movement (of which Hyles played a huge role), at my blog:

http://www.pipeline.com/~jeriwho1/blogger.htm

I've also written a story called SECRET RADIO, which is the journal of a woman's senior year at an IFBx schoolm complete with legalism, scandals, and corruption. If any of you want a trip down memory lane, feel free to drop by.

http://home.earthlink.net/~graceblog/blogger.htm

[jsc1215 (jsc1215)]

Well, I see there is more to the FBC Hammond story than what I knew during my Navy tour at Great Lakes. The college students were just the tip of the iceberg; the mess behind the scenes was too much like CFCMI.

Yuck.

John Cady

[emm (emm)]

I found this website while searching for more information from people who had already gone to Hyles Anderson College, which I'm enrolled to start next year. I've always had doubts about the ways my mom raised me and the fanatical control her church seemed to support. I don't agree with many things they do, but I have to say when I visited I was greeted with a kindness I've never seen before.
One thing is they never give the rulebook out except to the student when they arrive at the campus. I managed to convince a friend to give me hers, and it is strict. Strict but not impossible, because I grew up on similar rules.
-M.Y.

[bassenco (bassenco)]

emm, you're going to find a fanatical place of incredible ignorance when you get there. Yes, they have polished up their act since criticism of them became public. But the leadership has never repented or even acknowledged the gross sins that have occurred there, which were sheltered and protected. Jack Hyles made a child molester a hero and unleashed his adulterous son on an unsuspecting church. Worst of all, you will hear all kinds of looney ideas attributed to Scripture, when the Scripture does not support them at all.

It's a drastic and terrible danger to place yourself under the rule of such people. You'd do a lot better to go someplace else. Just about anyplace else, in fact.

[emm (emm)]

I agree with you, but it's really not much choice of mine if I want any peace from my mom. I figure I can tolerate it for a year, then move far enough away that I won't be judged for every thing I do.
What I think is that many of the people who go there (and some of the teachers) are sincere people, but that there is corruption when people get too much power.

[bassenco (bassenco)]

While serving as the pastor at Miller Road Baptist Church in Garland Texas, (one
of the most conservative, Fundamentalist churches in Texas) Dave Hyles advertised
for group sex in porn magazines. When he was brought before the church for his
misconduct, over a dozen women came forward to testify that he had seduced them.
And he's the prime suspect in the death of Brent Stevens, a child who was removed
from his custody because Brent suffered from 8 broken bones, all of which had been
left untreated (at the age of 15 months). Dave also put a gun to the head of his
first wife. A Detroit news station did a documentary that incldued reports on Dave
Hyles and his gross sexual misconduct, yet Fundamental Baptist Pastors (who claim
to believe and obey the Bible) have continued to have him speak in their pulpits.

Dave Hyles has been moved from one church and thrown out of three baptist fundamentalist
churches so far for gross sexual misconduct (in each one). His former church secretary
has been busted for prostitution and has the words "Dave's girl" tattooed into her thigh.

Now, once again, Dave is in a local church, his fifth. The church this time is First
Baptist of Jacksonville. I have alerted the pastor, Jerry Vines, to no avail.
I have been assured the situation is under control. This, in spite of the fact that
the congregation knows nothing of this person being in their midst.

In spite of the fact that Dave has left a pile of ruined lives behind him in any
church where he has stayed, especially the lives of the children of the women who
he seduced and then abandoned (and yes, each woman thought she was his "one
and only"), Dave has been sent on to other churches without the congregations
being warned. When he was thrown out of his last church, Berean Baptist, in Orange
Park Florida, Pastor Tom Neal did not send Dave on. But now that Dave is in First
Baptist of Jacksonville, nobody has warned the congregation of this man's history.
And yes, Pastor Jerry Vines knows about this. I sent e-mails and made phone calls
to his personal assistant to warn him. Evangelist Tim Lee has let me know that
Jerry Vines knows about Dave and has rebuked me for being a "busybody". But most members of the congregation don't know about Dave.

For more detailed information on Dave Hyles, check these links:

http://www.pipeline.com/~jeriwho2/2005/01/brent-stevens-dave-hyles-everett.htm

http://www.pipeline.com/~jeriwho1/2003_10_19_archive.html#106709935067117942

[standing (standing)]

To: Anonymous (64.12.117.20)
Posted Sunday, 10/10/2004 - 1:03am:

"One question. why are there no blacks at Hyles Andersons bible school?"

I am a former (1999-2002) Hyles-Anderson College student. I can tell you there ARE blacks at HAC.

One black couple I knew are now missionaries to Haiti.

I was recruited to the bus route I worked on all 3 years by a black student.

My ex-girlfriend roomed with his now wife (also black)

Many of my friends were black, including a man who is now the principal of FBC Hammond's new Christian school for inner-city youth (not to be confused with the 27y/o City Baptist Schools).

In fact, My friends at HAC were (how much time do you have??): Mexican, Haitian, Puerto Rican, Honduran, Cuban, Polish, British, Canadian, Cambodian, Russian, Australian, New Zealander, etc. In other words, very diversified!!

In fact, just the other night at my church's mid-week service, I met a young man from Tanzania (yes, he's black), who is going to enroll in HAC this September.

------------------------------

Now, to: Anonymous (65.230.198.40)
Posted Tuesday, 09/28/2004 - 5:19pm:

"Sounds like a weekend with the Hitler Youth!"

Again, I am an ex HAC student. However, I am fairly new to Fundamentalism.

From the age of 5, I attended a Bible church, where the pastor told my father that he only preached from the KJB because the old people in church prefer it, and that he believes all versions have errors. I spent 3 summers involved with a para-church evangelism organization. I regularly attended a para-church youth group that used the NIV.

As a teen, I had a couple of KJBs, as well as an NIV, NASB, and a Living Bible. My music collection from age 14-21 included dcTalk, World Wide Message Tribe, Third Day, MxPx, Larry Norman, Gospel Gangstas, Newsboys, Audio Adrenaline, Reality Check, et al.

I graduated from a GARBC Christan high school (the same one that one of the former members of Reality Check graduated from), and later studied at a well-known Southern Baptist university, where I was a friend of many on the women's basketball team and I was a dee-jay at the on-campus CCM station.

Also, during college, I was involved in the choir of a well-know evangelical church, which televises their morning worship services.

Hardly sounds like your typical Fundie, huh?

What made the change?

For starters, while at the Southern Baptist college, I had questions about Bible versions. One of my Bible teachers made a point to tell his students how much better the NASV is over other versions. A few of the professors in the Bible department were on the committee that translated the NLT. My Homiletics teacher put the "New" Schofield on the sylibus as a required text (never mind that in the 1960s when the "New" Schofield was first printed, Rev. C.I. Schofield had been DEAD for decades!)

The more I read about the KJB on my own, and the more I compared it to my other versions, the more I trusted the KJB over all the others.

Then, I met KJB-only preachers, and even attended a Fundamental Baptist church. I saw a huge difference between that and what I was used to.

Instead of sitting on our Blessed Assurance and never telling a soul about the Saviour, I got involved with the bus ministry and went soul-winning weekly.

Instead of having a pastor who preached what he thought his people wanted him to say (and NEVER being excited about what he shared with us from the pulpit), I now have a pastor who preaches what the Bible says, regardless of who it offends. (Galatians 4:16 says, "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")

Instead of youth pastors who NEVER teach modesty to the teens in the church, I now go to a church where the teen girls learn to cover themselves, as to cause their brethren in Christ to fall, and the young men not to be confromed to the image of this world.

Yes, there are a few women and girls in my church who still prefer to wear pants, men and boys who come in to church dressed in baggy jeans and earrings, members who choose not to go soulwining. However, we don't shun them, but love them as Jesus does. The pastor doesn't put a gun to our heads and make us live this was. He just preaches the Word, lives what he preaches, and lets the Holy Spirit do the rest.

Nobody forced me to transfer to HAC. I wanted to do it. I knew (from "Maybe You Wouldn't Like," also in their course catalog), where they stand and what is expected of their students. Since I chose to attend there, I chose to live by their rules.

------------------------------

Emm, since your standards are different from HAC's ("...I figure I can tolerate it for a year, then move far enough away that I won't be judged for every thing I do."), I'll be praying for you. I've been on the less-strict side and trust me, there's nothing for you.

I like the fact that HAC doesn't allow "...hand holding or other intimacies are allowed between the sexes." When I went to the evangelical college, they permitted hand holding, and the founder told us in chapel (regarding kissing on campus), "Do it and don't get caught." At the less-strict school, rapes occurred, and I knew girls that got pregnant by their boyfriends while students at this college. One of those girls was on the womens basketball team. The university's answer? She was a "medical red shirt," and allowed to sit 1 season out due to her pregnancy.

Also, while at this less-strict university, I didn't know what I belived. Each teacher taught a doctrine contrary to the other. While one Bible teacher was an active soulwinner, others taught "lifestyle evangelism." Of course, different professors preferred different Bible versions. I had to find out on my own what I believed in order to survive the confusion of the many contradicting doctrines taught.

Hyles-Anderson isn't perfect. No school ever is. After all, God uses imperfect human beings like us!

However, Emm, get on a bus route (I'm partial to Division 5, personally), win souls to Christ, read your Bible, and ask God to use this year in Northwest Indiana to help yo be more like Him. Be like the Bereans, who in Acts 17:10-11, "...searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

There are some great people there. I'm thankfull for getting to know Dr. Sam Sprunger, Bro. Rodney Jordan, Bro. Pollard Mercer, Dr. Darrell Moore, Dr. John Francis, Bro. Paul Fielder, Mrs. Jackie Fielder (she's a great lady for you to get to know), Dr. Laurent, Dr. Pete Cowling, Mrs. Cowling (another great lady), et al. Yes, there are a few people there who aren't so great, but ask God to lead you to the good ones, and for you to learn fom them.

God bless you.

In Christ,
Standing

*********************************************** ***
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

-- II Corinthians 6:14-18 (KJB)

[bassenco (bassenco)]

STANDING wrote: "Yes, there are a few people there who aren't so great, but ask God to lead you to the good ones, and for you to learn fom them."

The Bible is clear that "those who aren't so great," (as in the fornicators, adulterers, child molesters, sodomizers, violent, and railers) are to be confronted and expelled. The Body of Christ should not be a pool of deep and dark water that must be navigated with care. It is to be kept pure. By your own allowance, that place tolerates corruption.

And "soul winning," which is one of the worst abuses of the Gospel and has been used by Hyles Anderson to give false assurance to hundreds of people, does not excuse disobedience to God's Word. We do not weigh alternatives with our obedience and choose what we decide is the least offensive path. We are to obey God in all things. You cannot justify Hyles-Anderson's corruption by pointing out what you perceive as laziness or confusion in others. That doesn;t diminish the grossness of the sin and scandal covered up at HAC and FBC.

As you noted, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" that place is disobedient to the clear commands of Scripture.

Plus, it's education stinks. Plain and simple, students don't get a real education at Hyles-Anderson. It's clear from your own post that you don't know Scripture and have no idea how to apply it to your life. The only thing you really know and believe is that you must "get busy for God" and make a claim to reading Scripture (common from IFB-KJB people). But your works of self righteousness and your ignorance are stark and appalling in a public place.

[redpurusha (redpurusha)]

hey, I just heard about this bible college for the first time, and read the list here about "no hand holding' and other sins not allowed. I couldn't believe it, so I went to their website and... there it was, in the college pamphlet. Seriously, no hand holding, dancing, among worse indecencies. The belief in a literal eternal hell with brimestone, etc?

Now I am getting a better picture why someone like George W. Bush could have possibly been voted by a majority of people in the US, (mainly due to over-fundamentalist bible belt citizens).

I do believe that there are people that would fit in this place, but not me and most others. What's scary is apprantly the founder -Jack Hyde- is a Jackel and Hyde, literally taking the teaching of the bible "the head of the woman is the man," (admitingly it's there, in the KJV). However, allegedly he seduces womeing into being his sex slaves to a great degree; yet tells his students not to hold hands!? Are you kidding?

I'll admit it, I like the King James Version, but I like the deeper meaning and substance behind it much more.

[mdaye (mdaye)]

Can anyone tell me if other IFB churches embrace or reject the teachings of Jack Hyle? Do they realize that it's a cult? Do they acknowledge the wrongdoings of the leaders of this church? My MIL and FIL attend an IFB church, that I think is very strange in it's tactics for salvation, soul winning, etc.

[mdaye (mdaye)]

Well I posted a few days ago on this topic and have had no response. I'll try again. Can anyone tell me if other IFB churches embrace or reject the teachings of Jack Hyle? Do they realize that it's a cult? Do they acknowledge the wrongdoings of the leaders of this church? My MIL and FIL attend an IFB church, that I think is very strange in it's tactics for salvation, soul winning, etc.

[mdaye (mdaye)]

Once more, anybody have any personal experiences with this church or any other IFB church that affiliates with them?

[gospel_driven]

I attend a Church pastored by a graduate of Hyles-Anderson and have met with many people, both Pastors and lay people who graduated from there and not a one of them think that any of their college leaders are nor were perfect. What I have found is that those who oppose obedience will find whatever fault they can with those who do teach obedience. Most of what I have seen in this thread is sin according to the Bible, but then I guess I should expect slander from those who obviously have a hatred for those who believe their Bible and who obey Jesus because they love Him.


Jim

[bassenco]

It's not slander to say that somebody who has committed fornication has committed fornication. In fact, we are commanded to confront such sins in the church, expose them, and require open repentance or else expulsion of the offender. None of that happens at Hyles Anderson.

Bob Gray of Jacksonville Florida was a Jack Hyles "pal" for several years. He has been arrested for sexual battery against little girls. Seventeen women brought charges forward, but owing to the stautre of limitations, only four have stuck. The church leadership, according to several members and former members, (and alleged victims) knew what was going on for decades and urged silence for "the sake of the ministry."

All of this is sin, and crying against it is no more sinful than the rebukes of John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus Himself against the covered-up scandals of the Pharisees.

[kregerm]

Mdaye,

I grew up in two churches that were affiliated with Jack Hyles. He stayed in my home and ate with my family. My mom worked very closely with Marlene Evans on several occasions. We loved that ministry. We had never been to Hammond; they always came to us. Our high school graduates sometimes went to Hyles Anderson College, and I had two youth pastors (one good and one bad) who went there. So when I went to the youth conference in 1985 for my 15th birthday, it was an exciting time. I was a bit astonished by the worship that he received from the other teens, since it reminded me of the way crowds would react when some all-star wrestler would enter the arena, but I figured maybe that's just the way they did things in Hammond. I was always a bit uneasy with all the shouting in the preaching, but just attributed it to his style and didn't let it bother me too much. I remember that there didn't seem to be too much depth or biblical explanation in the preaching, but I knew that some men were more expository while others were more topical, and figured Jack Hyles fit in the Topical camp. Above all, we believed the best about a Christian brother, because we loved him.

So, when the news broke that there were problems with Jack Hyles, it hit us pretty hard as a family and as a fellowship of churches. It hit even harder that there was no honest attempt to defend him or his son, and that the evidence of guilt was pretty overpowering. Because all the evidence pointed toward guilt, and nothing pointed toward innocence, we were forced to disassociate from Hyles Anderson. It has only been in the years since that time that we have seen the other problems with that ministry. My first church still has a vibrant bus ministry, but there is also an honest attempt to disciple those who come--not to simply put a notch on the belt and move on. Visitation is no longer the "cold turkey" method that it used to be, because that has become so strongly associated with the cults, but we still witness for Christ at every opportunity. We emphasize personal relationships in witnessing more than we did.

So, I know that a great many independent, fundamental Baptists have disassociated with Hyles, even while I have heard of many who still are in fellowship with that ministry. I hesitate to be harsh with either group, because I lack the deep personal knowledge necessary to render such judgments. We are commanded to judge with a righteous judgement, and that is a very hard thing to do from long distance.

I no longer attend an independent fundamental Baptist church, because both of those in my area have problems that I cannot overlook. One is KJV-only and practices Shepherding and Geographic Will of God, while the other is KJV-mostly (nothing wrong with that, but they lean toward KJV-only) and mangles basic Bible passages (the mercies of God in Romans 12:1 include the senses of sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch, according to the pastor there). But there are many good, solid, balanced churches that are also independent, fundamental, and Baptist.

As with anything else, it is up to us to search the Scriptures diligently to see if these things are so.

If you have specific questions, fire away.

cheers--

kreger

[bassenco]

I have founded a Conference for victims of church abuse as is found in these Hyles-ite churches. The web page for it is here:

http://www.jeriwho.net/lambs/lambs.htm

and my blog page URL has changed from what I posted two and a half years ago. Here is the latest blog URL:

http://www.jeriwho.net/lillypad2/blogger.htm

[dthatcher7]

Please allow me to put in my experience into this discussion.
I have followed the path of appeasement with my parents and now, at 29, I am just now beginning to break free. A little bit.
You have to understand, your parents see it is their duty and pride to raise you as one of the group. If you "go liberal" they have "failed God."
Now is the time to break free. I am convinced that any person in the situation emm is in, or I was in at that age, needs to MOVE OUT on their own IMMEDIATELY to ANOTHER city. Take out a student loan and go to a university and live in the dorm or find a roomate. Or go in the military.
Your parents consider it their mission to mold you into what they think God wants you to be, and they are convinced that God has granted near-absolute authority in your life as your parents even though you are now 18 or older.
This is NOT something to play around with. GET OUT!
If you need inspiration then watch one or all of the following movies:
The Village
Population 436
Carrie (the 1976 original)