Is it a cultic mentality to try and control people with threats

[hombre (hombre)]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif


Mark,

I could have prophesied it.....

Now you and the rest in FA are responsible for the deaths in Iraq, and are murderers.

It was just exactly like I said...throw a little bait out there,
and it rolls around for a while...and...

BINGO!!!

Fiver is accusing FAs' leaders of murder.

Hey FiveFoldDumbCrap:

Perhaps you would like to have
your head cut off by Islamic militants?

[mark1124 (mark1124)]

Hey Hombre....

The baby is crying. Give him his pacifier

[mark1124 (mark1124)]

Hey Hombre....

The baby is crying. Give him his pacifier

[hombre (hombre)]

Hey!!!!!

Mister Honorable and Charitable Most Wonderful of
Truly Inspired Prophets of Turd City

When I mentioned that you might want to inspire another topic,
that would be something that would inspire, encourage, and otherwise
BLESS people who would read it, and cause them to RISE above
this mindset of accusations that you find so entertaining.

You know...that title really isn't so bad.

He loves playing in crap.

Hey, when you're done pointing fingers from your crap crib,
and are ready to come over and listen to the adults speak,
we might just let you have some milk.

Meat is just not appropriate for babies.

[40days40years (40days40years)]

Look Saddam might have had nukes. He had scientists working on them. He sent out folks to procure yellow cake in Africa. If your gonna knock the idea of fighting Saddam than you might as well say fighting Hitler is immoral. I think this is the main valid complaint against Faith Assemblies and the Amish/Mennonites. You have a Hitler/Stalin/PolPot- -Satan worshipper with a gas chamber staring at you----- please pick up a weopon and at least try to save your family. Come on guys!! Saddam was in the same class

[40days40years (40days40years)]

You know the bible shows God directing the Israelites in war (this God is the same as today, yesterday and tommorow)And if you condemn our boys for fighting Hitler will you condem Jesus and the Angels who come ready for war on his return??????? Yes, it is good to make peace with your obnoxious neighbor but with Hitler? GET REAL!!

[mark1124 (mark1124)]

Amen 40.

[hombre (hombre)]

Perhaps Fiver could see better,
if he could get his head out of his butt.

[fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)]

May the Love of Jesus set you free Hombre!

Be Blessed!

[40days40years (40days40years)]

Hear are questions for fivefoldprophet. First before the questions you do remind me of my friendly arguments with Faith Assembly folks 20 years ago, most think like me now I am sure you will be happy to know. I use to argue with one Faith Assembly guy who believed what you do about non resistance and he worked for a large military contractor (true story) LOL.
1st question? would you ever call the police if you felt threatened by hoodlums on your property who would not leave? have you ever called the police for your own protection? Lets say you called the police and three officers showed up with weopons. In a way did you not just call the army out on those bad guys and hence are not obeying your own non resistance stance? The police are using an implicit threat of force just by having those weopons on their side and you just deployed them generalisimo fivefold.

Question 2. Did Hobart Freeman ever have any men around him in the congregation that would protect him from some crazy friends of yours?, was there church "security"? Do you see where I am going here. Do you know that Jesus near the end of his time on earth told the disciples that when you go out in the future take a sword with you. I think it was Peter that came back with a sword and Jesus said it is enough. My guess is that Jesus was kind of saying to Peter that it's o.k to protect yourself just don't over do it.

thanks a bunch, Please don't condemn the Arch Angel Michael if he owns a sword or carries a big chain to bind Satan with. Nothing wrong with praying for peace but at least acknowledge that your actions can help keep mass murderers in power and in the end is that Gods will?

(Message edited by 40days40years on November 07, 2005)

[healed (healed)]

Regardless of any right that FAs pastorship might of preached, FA was an extremist group, just like the islamic radicals, the kamikaze in WW2, the David Koreshes, etc. Its the extremist part of the matter that is not being discussed and avoided. Id say it is quite extreme to preach to your membership that seeking in the arm of the flesh is against Gods word, and instilling fear into members that if they even as take one asprin, they have doubted Gods word and cannot enter heaven. Dont even try and spin it either fools hombre and cougar. I have a family member in it to this day, and they waste away their life, only to belive they will join the other "saints" someday if they follow the "Word". Why even be put on this earth if it is to be one of suffering and misery?

[40days40years (40days40years)]

fivefold, those are lots of good scriptures (thanks) I will get back to you on some of them but it will take a little time and I agree with having faith but I also have been helped by doctors helping hands just like your car may have been helped by the helping hands of a mechanic. One point about your amish/anabaptist non resistance debating friends, they came here looking for religous freedom but they also chose to immigrate to a country they knew liked to rely on the sword and modern technology. They are living in a land protected by the sword and they benefit by the "english" wielding that sword and technology (if their anti technology than why move to a technology capital?)

I would like to say that during the great tribulation it does sound like Jesus is warning your debating friends who would take up arms.

Rev. 13:10 (KJV) He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity:
he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

It sounds like resistance to the Antichrist with the arm of the flesh during that time is futile and pretty much guarantees your own death.

As far as your other debating friends believing that literal demons would kill folks during the tribulation. I don't know it depends on what those locust thingies with the long women like hair are? Are those things demons or actual flesh creatures possibly created by man playing God and messing around with genetic engineering? I have know idea. During the great tribulation Satan would not need to kill people with a demonic being in the flesh realm when he would have more than enough evil men willing to do that job for him and believe they are doing good or even serving God when they do their evil deeds. --- As far as the Nephilim are concerned in the old testament, they just could not be allowed to inbreed with Abrahams descendents but I don't think their destruction was permitted as a one time exception to a non war rule.


(Message edited by 40days40years on November 08, 2005)

(Message edited by 40days40years on November 08, 2005)

[40days40years (40days40years)]

healed

My encounters with F/A types twenty years a go was that they put people in a box where they can't get help from a doctor or an aspirin..etc. without thinking that they are not serving God. Faith Assembly folks would say if you don't think you have enough faith for a healing go to a doctor. The problem is that not having that faith is an admission that your a failed substandard F/A Christian. Plus doctors and the medical institutions are viewed as devlish institutions. A good christian does not go to the devil for help--- that is the catch 22 and people end up dying. Faith Assembly would bash hospitals and doctors by pointing out all the folks who died going to hospitals, that was kind of a cheap shot I thought because you don't go to a hospital unless your in bad shape anyway, it is kind of like saying if you take a bath you will get wet.

[cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)]

Now people that attended FA are Nazis, Terrorists and Kamikazes as well as being fools, clowns, animals, idiots, morons, etc, etc. Very convincing arguement Healed, what you said had nothing to do what was even being discussed. Pull your head out of your butt, Healed I don't even care if you have to see a doctor or goto the hospital to get your head pulled out of your butt.LOL The extreme side is being discussed, the problem is you can't argue Christianity because you don't know anything about Christianity, because number 1 you're not saved, 2 you've probably never read the Bible. The last posts between 40d40y and fivefold have been discussing the extremism regarding self defense, military, and medical authorities. Your idea of a discussion is everyone agreeing with you. It is hard to have an actual discussion when there are posters like you that can't make an argument. All you can do is call other posters names who don't agree with you. You have to be the least educated poster on the board on the subject which you seem to think you know so much about. How's that for a spin. FA was an extreme church, so are the Amish, Pentecostals, Muslims, Buddhists, Christian Science among many other religions. Faith Assembly has/had it's share of problems and caused even more problems by its teachings and practices. With any religion there are those within each religion that are very zealous in their faith regardless of what it is. This is America and we have the freedom to choose whatever religion we want. Even though there was much pain and suffering caused to my family as well as many others, I don't want the government telling me what I should believe or not believe. If my beliefs cause me to break the law, then I deserve the punishment required by law. (ie John the Baptist, The 3 Amigos in the Fire, Daniel, FA Parents that were charged, many other examples) Currently I choose not to attend any church or prescribe to any religion. Your relative also has the right in this country to believe and live however they choose. It's not YOUR CHOICE, if that's what they want to believe then it's THEIR CHOICE. You don't want them telling YOU how to believe but you think it's ok for YOU to tell them and others how to believe. If you don't like the way America treats citizen's religious freedom, THEN MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE. My argument with you has always been, if you want to pick and choose which portions of the Bible you want to believe/practice why believe/practice any of it. If parts of it aren't true or don't apply today or ever, what's to say that none of it is true and none of it applies? You still haven't answered that one. It's not a spin, I agree with you FA was an extreme church and I believe most that attended there and even Dr. Freeman would agree with you, but I don't necessarily think that makes everything that was taught there invalid. People used to think the world was flat and it was extreme to believe that the world was round, history has proved otherwise!

(Message edited by cougarxr72 on November 08, 2005)

[cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)]

40,

I agree with your points regarding the Medical Profession. I grew up in FA and was afraid of Doctors and Hospitals. I think some at FA even used to call hospitals the Devil's Palace. My sister has JD and when she got really sick my parents prayed for her healing and she didn't get any better. I had a conversation with my father when she had gotten really sick and suggested to him to take her to the ER, which he did. I even called a doctor friend of mine to talk to him about seeing her. Even though the medical practice has made great strides, they can't cure every ill and solve every problem. I can't explain why God doesn't always heal or answer prayers no more than can I answer why a medication works on some people and not on others. I don't believe that it is appropriate to preach to the congregation that Doctors and Hospitals are demon possessed. But that's just my opinion.

[duncan (duncan)]

Journal of American Medicine - August 2005

New York, NY - Recent research has concluded that people who did not utilize the services of medical science reduced their chances of being killed by a doctor by a stunning 98.8%. The other 1.2% were killed when a doctor accidentally ran over them with his Mercedes.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/articles/5940-1.asp

[40days40years (40days40years)]

O.K fivefold and Cougar. Cougar was afraid of doctors at one time, Why? he might as well have been afraid of calling the plumber. If you break your arm and it is disjointed what is devlishly occultic about pulling on that arm and putting it back in its socket or realigning broken bones? I mean honestly, I would'nt want my brother or you pulling on my arm if you were not trained to do that. Suppose I was unconcious with broken bones, what is occultic about cutting into flesh, rearranging bones to line up like they should or removing a ruptured spleen (it is just good engineering like your working on the side of your dented car) also how can I operate in faith if in a coma? To me it sounds like a mechanic working on a car or a plumber working on a sink, not occultism going on. Now if you take me to a witch doctor that is another story. And yes I do believe in healing by faith also.

Now five I'm not slamming you here but Jesus referred to folks taking the log out of their own eye before taking the splinter out of their brothers eye, I am just using this scripture as an analogy not a slam on you, bear with me here, Jesus used a medical analogy here. If you had a large splinter in your hand would you not physically remove it with tweezers?, if so you just became a doctor my friend on a small scale, or would you let it fester and rely on your faith to remove that poisoned splinter. As a kid I grabbed a fishing lure, it buried deep into my finger now I did go to a doctor which might have been a sin in the eyes of some folks at Faith Assembly. If I had pulled that lure out by my self would that have been a sin?. O.K lets replace that lure with a 3 foot length of rebar through my gut. I see no differance with the situation really.



(Message edited by 40days40years on November 08, 2005)

[40days40years (40days40years)]

One more thing fivefold I bet that there are a lot of christian doctors out there that did not swear that oath to a bunch of dead greek gods. Do you really think that most doctors care about 2 dorky looking snakes on a pole? They just view that stuff as historical mumbo jumbo. I put that stuff in the same category as you referring to the days in the week which were named after false gods or you referring to the planet jupiter or mars (I know you may use the names of false gods to describe those planets but you don't worship them). I could see you being concerned about some witchdoctor using a psychotropic herb for a vision quest but what about some salve from a plant that draws out the liquid from a boil administered by a christian doctor? That poison oak creme falls into the category of putting sugar on my cereal. Hey the sugar cane is a plant and that aloe vera stuff is a plant to, both came from God for us to use.-Now if a little old Amish lady starts burning junk and chanting incantations over my poison oak I agree that would be witchcraft.

thanks for putting up with me, blessing in Christ

(Message edited by 40days40years on November 08, 2005)

[40days40years (40days40years)]

Cougar:

I agree with your objections to putting the medical establishment into Satans camp, in the end it seems that some of the most Godly people get put into situations far above their heads with such preaching. Coming from your background what you did was brave and very commendable, too bad others in Faith Assembly did not have loved ones with your common sense wathching over them, many would be still be alive today.

[healed (healed)]

Your relative also has the right in this country to believe and live however they choose. It's not YOUR CHOICE, if that's what they want to believe then it's THEIR CHOICE. You don't want them telling YOU how to believe but you <font color="0000ff">

NICE! how freaking hypocritical of ya there Cougar! Geez I can seem to remeber being told growing up that if I didnt go along with FAs teaching, that the rod be not spared upon my flesh..meaning when getting caught listening to an AM radio out in the barn I was stripped down and the living hell beat out of me, when somebody finally got around to taking me to the Dr for strep throat that life threatening and upon returning home, being called a drug addict and having the living hell beat out of me! What a moron! Dude your weak, so you still follow this cult mess thats why you defend it. Its taken years for people like me to deal with the turmoil we had to deal with in that mess. Now you freaks are discussing the merits of going to the doctor. WTF is wrong with you? What there aint a Freeman around to follow so you dont know what to do? Its always the same ole same ole, doctors are of cult origin or some other nonsense. You have to consult amoung yourselves, "well bro Cougar said its ok...so maybe Ill slip over the the doctor" I dont need any of you to tell me what to do, its like the blind leading the blind. Oh, and now you tell me I have the right to belive what I want? Oh thanks dude! Thanks now that my whole childhood was wasted in some fu*ked up cult! I guess now I have the right, as long as I stay mute around your kind, when I express my right to freedom of speech and tell people like you how I feel in a direct way, I get the sheriff called on me. You damn right I have the right to say what I want. I served my country and I know what my rights are. I joined on my 18th birthday to get the <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> out of that mess and I aint never looked back. Its funny how an idiot like you talks about rights and freedoms, but you follow freaks like Freeman who twisted all that and took away alot of freedoms from us growing up and served us instead with hangups, abusing our US Constitution. all in the name of relegious freedom. You people aint no different than any other extremist group, just another flavor. </font>

(Message edited by healed on November 09, 2005)

[cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)]

The problem with you is that you don't read a thing that anyone writes. As a child regardless of what religion your parents belong to your parents are responsible for you, no parents are perfect and parents make mistakes. It amazes me that you never hold your parents responsible for your upbringing. They chose to attend FA, I don't ever recall the FA Gustopo going out and kidnapping people and locking them in the Glory Barn until they agreed to attend. They CHOSE to attend! Maybe they were abusive regardless of whether or not they attended FA. I got my butt whooped numerous times as a child as well, before, during and after attendance at FA. If more parents disciplined their kids, kids might be better behaved today. Parents are legally, financially and whatever other responsibility that you want to list for their kids until they are 18 AS A MINOR CHILD YOU DON'T HAVE A SAY. As I said in my prior post, if these parents participate in a religion in which they break the law, they should suffer the consequences of breaking the law. Anyway I was not referring to your childhood, regardless of what religion your parents practiced you wouldn't have followed it anyway. I was referring to your relative you moron. I assume that they are an adult so they have a right to believe what they want. Just like you did when you became an adult as well as I did and everyone else here. I have never said that I don't know what to do, I have visited the doctor as needed my children were born in the hospital and when they are sick they are taken to the doctor. You act like anyone who doesn't share your viewpoint entirely is wondering around lost without Dr. Freeman and still following everything that he taught. It is a**holes like you why I don't go to church anymore or have any desire to. Good Day to all, I though maybe things would have changed on this board over the last month but obviously not, I am sick and tired of this MORON healed.

(Message edited by cougarxr72 on November 09, 2005)

[hombre (hombre)]

You know Fiver,

What you are failing to realize is this:

1. You don't recognize FA anyway,
this is a spiritual matter, as described by yourself,
so anything FA would say to you regarding this is moot.
So what if they did say this?

2. This board is run by people who have decided
to allow freedom of speech, and who allow it's use by people
who it deems to be needy of help and encouragement,
for the purpose of shedding entrapment by cults.
FA is included on this board as a cult, right or wrong.
I seriously doubt that the owners of this board take
the devil seriously, especially with regards to one member
'turning another member over to Satan'.

You might as well be a dog howling at the moon.

This obsession of yours to be recognized first as a prophet,
and secondly as a leader and teacher by FA leadership, which is
so obviously manifested in your unending stream of demands,
accusations, and boring reference collection, tells me that
you are hurting inside, and are in desperate need of
inner healing.

Somehow, someway, back there somewhere, you got rejected,
and it has served to be your life long Achilles heel, that motivates
your entire thought life and behavior.

First I would recommend, a hearty dose of humility, and forgiveness,
toward everyone you think has done you wrong.

Secondly, I would apologize, publicly to everyone you have
maligned and misrepresented here.

You will then be in a position to petition Christ for forgiveness.

After this, if you would humble yourself to listen, and ask
the Lord to give you hearing ears and seeing eyes,
perhaps the Lord would allow you to understand why
Kenneth Copeland is a heretic, and why the church cannot allow
that sort of teaching in it's midst.

When you have listened, and realized the fool you have made of yourself here,
as well as elsewhere, I presume, perhaps FA will allow you to come back.

However, until you are grounded in a more stable fashion in the Word of God,
I would refrain from doing any more 'prophesying'.

May the Lord look with kindness upon your efforts to return unto HIm,
and heal your troubled mind.

Sincerely,

Hombre.

[mark1124 (mark1124)]

Hombre...

There is one thing you forgot to mention that Fivefoldprophet should do. He should take himself through the steps of deliverance from the spirits that are driving him to act towards everyone the way he does.

Too bad he does not understand that to give someone over to the devil is a disciplinary action, and not a death threat. But we know he likes to read into everything we say anyway. He's done it against you too.

Mark

And by the way...he is no leader at Faith Assembly. And neither am I.

[healed (healed)]

Oh Im sure you are sick of me. But see thats a good thing because one thing Ive learned throughout this whole ordeal with FA, the only thing that gets their attention is when you are direct. Otherwise they disqualify everything you say or slip off into some fairy tale land and shut you out. Im not going to hold it all inside and get feel like sh*t because the other side wont listen or doesnt care because of their superiority and beliefs. Its the most selfish bunch of BS that I have yet to encounter. There has to be a comprimise, otherwise a complete breakdown occurs. What Freeman did was no different than what the Muslim radicals are doing. Its mind control, complete and total dedication to a cause. A cause can be anything. Freemans cause wasnt as radical as a Islamic terrorist, but he was a dictator.

[duncan (duncan)]

Healed,

I'm sorry for all the crap that you had to put up with as a child. Many of us had similar experiences as kids, and many of us have lost loved ones. The only difference is how we have reacted to these experiences as adults.

I do not believe everything that Dr. Freeman preached was totally from God. I know that he preached his opinion on many things, and then people took that as gospel.

However, I have not given up my faith in Christ because of bad experiences at FA. Earlier, you compared Dr. Freeman to Hitler, so let me give you an example. Hitler was one of the worst humans (if not the worst) that has ever lived. But did you know that Hitler invented the interstate system as we know it? He came up with the idea of on-ramps and exits and high speed. Dwight Eisenhower saw all these highways while in Germany and then began our own interstate system in the United States.

My point is this: Just because Hitler came up with the interstate system doesn't mean that I quit driving on them. (In fact, I drove on one to work this morning.) The same holds true with Dr. Freeman. Just because he had an extreme view of Christianity doesn't mean that I have given up on Christianity all together.

I'm not trying to shut you up, because I know you had to deal with a lot of hurt. I'm only asking you not to give up on God just because FA gave up on you. I can promise you that Christ hasn't given up on you.

Duncan

[cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)]

My sentiments exactly Duncan.

[cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)]

If Dr. Freeman was Hitler, does that make Steve Hill Mussoulini?

[hombre (hombre)]

> DUNCAN SAID DWIGHT EISENHOWER IS A NAZI!!!!!!! <

duncan (duncan)
Intermediate Member
Username: duncan

Post Number: 123

Hitler invented the interstate system ....
Dwight Eisenhower ... then began our own interstate system in the United States.


REPENT DUNCAN!!!!

The Bible clearly tells us to honor our leaders!!!!

Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. fear God .
Honour the king. 1 Ptr.2:17

Calling Eisenhower a Nazi is not honoring our leaders!!!

Dr Freeman never said this!!!

Show me the tape!!!!

You are in sin and need Jesus!!!

Repent!!!!

...... then we can be friends.



http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

he-he-he....

.sorry.....just couldn't resist that one...too easy...

[mark1124 (mark1124)]

Hey Hombre...I just have one thing to say to you about the above post.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

High five for Hombre!!!! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

But you forgot something, brother...

You forgot to prophesy...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

(Message edited by mark1124 on November 10, 2005)

[hombre (hombre)]

BAD SPELLING, GRAMMAR &amp; PUNCTUATION!!!!

fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
your the real Church that everyone just cant wait to follow
end quote.



fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
this is the most evil and vial language!
end quote.



fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
your wicked and should repent!
end quote.


fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
cougar ,your just as bad for going along with this evil!
end quote.



fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
your "full of the devil!" just like the rest of those "socalled current FA leaders"
end quote.

______________________________________________

NAME CALLING!!!!!!

fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
your a liar and your words here prove it!
end quote.



fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
your "full of the devil!" just like the rest of those "socalled current FA leaders"
end quote.




fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
I believe it Hombre the way you embrace these evil sick men'
who talk satanic and make demonic statements
your right at home with your evil friends
these people have no relationship with the teaching of Dr Hobart Freeman and are deceivers!
You current Faith Assembly socalled Leadership may have hyjacked Freemans tapes
and are selling them,, but your deceivers and full of the devil!
end quote.


__________________________________________________ _____________

You had better repent!
.....show me one Dr Freeman tape that teaches this kind of behavior!
DR Freeman would be ashamed!
and I know Jesus is!


Hey.

How do you like me now?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

You know, you haven't listened to a word I've said to you,
or learned a single thing about anyone here.
You continue to play your stupid little power game,
and spit back all your referenced out of context crapola
that no one is interested in hearing.

So you get what you asked for.

You want to play Gods' little prophet?

Here's a nice prophecy for you to think about,
it is found in the 'book of Revelation'

ALL DECEIVERS ( etc.) SHALL FIND THEIR PART
IN THE LAKE THAT BURNS WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE.
THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.

THAT WOULD INCLUDE BELIEF IN,
AND TEACHING HERESY/FALSE DOCTRINE
ABOUT JESUS DYING SPIRITUALLY.

__________________________________________________ ___

BTW: I sense a note of condescension, anger and
hope for impending judgment in your phony desire
for us all to 'be blessed'.

Anyway,.....: 'Be blessed young man,
and may all your dreams be of things sweet and nice'.

__________________________________________________ ____

Did you learn that last lesson I just gave you,
or do I need to spell it out for you again?