Dr Freeman%92s accusations of Copeland%92s ministries

[cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)]

Frankly Fivefold I don't give a damn. I would rather spend my days working with people who aren't religious or saved because at least you can reason with them and they'll at least listen to what you have to say. You have pushed another individual further away from church. You are doing the same thing that you are accusing FA of doing and yet you don't see it. If Mark believes that Copeland's message is false and Copeland is a heretic, that's his opinion and he is entitled to it that's not hate speech, in reading prior posts he has provided what he believes to be proof of what Copeland has said and where he has contradicted himself. You have yet to provide any proof of this in writing or a tape on which it occurred in regards to Dr. Freeman or FA. It's not a matter of taking sides, Mark has provided evidence to support his viewpoint on Copeland. You haven't provided any evidence of your viewpoint of FA. Just the same you're entitled to your own opinion about FA which I'm not sure what it is. I will leave with a quote from a posting you made on June 27, 2004. A different viewpoint than now. So which is it?
"Dr Freeman had the gift of strength and faith to stand up against the Gainsayers, they kicked at him and spoke evil of the truth revealed in the scripture .The critics of Christ are alive and well and they will be Judged by the words they speak. “There is a small remnant of faithful “soon the world will be Judged and the remnant will overcome by the power of the blood of the Lamb and the testimony of their words not loving their lives even unto death and just as the days of Noah they will be taken away. June 27, 2004" Looks like just 1 year ago you were supporting Dr. Freeman's "gift to stand up against the gainsayers." Now what he said is hateful and bashing other preachers and you expect me and other posters to believe what you say when you can't provide any proof to support your claims. You've been on both sides of the fence. Most logical people would want some sort of evidence to support your claims since you have done a 180 since your initial posts.

(Message edited by cougarxr72 on June 16, 2005)

(Message edited by cougarxr72 on June 16, 2005)

[micah (micah)]

is it hate speech to say that someone is wrong? watch out mr fiveyearoldprosthetic, dont defend copeland as some have and do defend hobart. Then you are simply following a man, and not God. be carefull lest you become the idiot you despise.

[cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)]

I have never claimed to be of the fruits of the spirit. I'm not the one claiming to be a prophet or a religious individual. I have repeatedly said that the namecalling is wrong you're the one who needs to wake up. I have said it's wrong what else do you want me to do? Give Mark a verbal spanking because he hurt your feelings? I don't have a problem with people pointing out what they believe are errors in another minister's teachings, if they can back up what they say with scripture or proof of where they were wrong. That's not hate speech that's a discussion on theological beliefs. If a minister says something that is heretical then he is a heretic. That's not namecalling, it's just calling it what it is. If a prophet prophesizes something and it doesn't come true then at least at that point in time he is/was a false prophet. That's not hateful it's just the truth because his prophesy was false if it didn't come true. I can think of a lot more "bad and evil names" than heretic. If Mark had called Copeland or these other ministers that you refer to a pig or a lying SOB that is namecalling. I just believe that Mark is entitled to his opinion and you are entitled to yours end of story. We know what yours is and we know what Mark's is. Fine move on. Time will tell and in the end we will find out if Dr. Freeman was on target or if Kenneth Copeland was. You also didn't answer my question, about your quote. A year ago you said Dr. Freeman had a gift of strength to stand up to his critics, and now you say that the standing up to his critics was bashing and hateful. You also haven't provided me a tape number in which this occurred. Why the change in tune? You refer to the "real Jesus", there is only one Jesus, there aren't multiple sons of God. Is this the message of love that Jesus would have you spread? It is discussions like these with individuals like yourself that have given me no desire to go back to church or get involved in religion.

(Message edited by cougarxr72 on June 17, 2005)

[fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)]

Jesus would not approve of this way Faith Assembly
leadership, or room leaders are acting,
a leader should be a good example of Love ,kindness, and morality
Jesus is Love and kindness not mean and bad name calling,,

[cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)]

You sure like to stretch things. I have never claimed not to be saved, you are so full of yourself it is sickening. I was saved 27 years ago when I was at FA, but according to most of you that salvation is invalid because Dr. Freeman was wrong on some issues. My comment was that I would rather deal with unsaved people because they are not so full of themselves that they won't at least listen to you and they aren't hoilier than thou. Your excuse for not wanting to provide proof of your claim about Dr. Freeman is pretty lame as well. What I find acceptable is supporting someone(Mark) who has presented an arguement, provided information to back up his viewpoint and maintained the same opinion throughout his arguement. He has not changed positions countless times. You won't even answer the questions asked of you. I asked why you were supporting Dr. Freeman, just one year ago but now you have nothing good to say about him, which is it? We don't have a problem with a theological discussion, so why don't you get over it.

(Message edited by cougarxr72 on June 19, 2005)

[cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)]

I guess I'd better go to FF's church so I can find the "real Jesus" since the one I grew up believing is not real according to FF. Sounds a little elitist to me

[fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)]

1 Cor. 14:32 (KJV) And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

[micah (micah)]

who gives a flying turd?

[healed (healed)]

Actually I think I seen brother Copeland flying on a turd once.

[healed (healed)]

well 5fold did do a good job of showing us what mark was doin....least thats what he got posted here. anyways, who cares? I thought it was kind of funny. Who tawkin? Im tawkin! Brother freeman used to play with his ham radio alot, Im sure he did some exploring himself.

[hombre (hombre)]

Cougar:

Frankly Fivefold I don't give a damn.
I would rather spend my days working with people who aren't religious or saved
because at least you can reason with them and they'll at least listen to what you have to say.
You have pushed another individual further away from church.


Hombre:

Well said, Cougar.
I embraced that philosophy for quite a while myself,
and there seems to be ample justification for it.
I seem to remember Jesus hanging out with 'the sinners'
of His day...prostitutes, tax collectors and the common man,
and eschewing the Pharisees.
It is far easier, IMO, to deal with blatant fleshy sins, than religious ones.
Problem is, we need fellowship with like-minded believers.
Hanging out with the unsaved, will generally only serve
to bring you down to their level.
We know that there are tares among the wheat,
it is unfortunate, but that is the way it is.
We definitely have a problem, and we have a need to come together again
as believers without all the crap from false teachers, denominational
marshmallows, and extreme legalists.
We can at least work toward that goal here, by exposing those who we recognize
as such, ignoring them, and moving on together on issues of substance.
That being said, there is always a silver lining somewhere, and in this case,
people like you are referring to here, serve us, in causing us to examine
our own positions on various subjects, and clarify them within our own minds.
If we allow this process to make us stronger, we achieve victory.
If we let people like this turn us back, the devil wins.

[fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)]

Did Dr Freeman personally attack people! (show me the tape)

I don’t believe Dr Freeman called word of faith teachers� bad names ,
but rather left their names out and spoke about doctrine without bashing people!

Did DR Freeman attacked Copeland by name on tape or in printed text! (show me)

He did disagree with the 'word of faith" doctrine of the atonement!
and called the doctrine heresy .


I totally disagree with certain aspects or the "word of faith" teaching
In regards to the atonement but refrain from name calling!
such as saying someone’s a “idiot or moron, stupid, ect”
Its not Love!

Sure there are heretics and false workers , but name calling that is harsh

its the current radio talk show host mentality that I see manifesting




..

(Message edited by fivefoldprophet on November 12, 2005)

[40days40years (40days40years)]

It has been a long time but my "guess" is he bashed Copeland. I ran into Hobart Freeman guys who definatly were upset about the Jesus died spiritualy heresy. I mean if your preaching against false doctrine you are eventually going to start naming names, how can you avoid that. Even if he did not name names everyone knew who he was talking about. Everybody was talking about Copeland and Hagin.... It is the same thing he bashed them.

[mark1124 (mark1124)]

I don't really think that it is all that wrong to name names when there was heresy being preached. For instance: 1 Timothy 1:18 Â*¶This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

There may be others that I am not currently aware of...but sometimes it is appropriate to name names just to warn others of who is teaching the error.

You're right 40, everyone knew it was Hagin and Copeland that Bro. Freeman was referring to when the JDS heresy was being exposed. I also wonder if everyone knew who were the "Florida Four" when Bro. Freeman refuted the Neo-Discipleship, Shepherdship, Covering teaching.

God bless.

Mark

[40days40years (40days40years)]

Yep, Amen, I agree

The florida 4? Mumford is all I remember I stumble across other names but forget them very quickly. Hmmmmmmmm!

(Message edited by 40days40years on November 06, 2005)

[mark1124 (mark1124)]

Derek Prince and Erv(???) Baxter was two of the others. I don't know who the other one was.

[hombre (hombre)]

Quote from Healed:
Actually I think I seen brother Copeland flying on a turd once.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

One question:

Was Fiver his co-pilot?

[duncan (duncan)]

Hombre,

Thanks for bringing that post back up, I had forgotten about it. That has to be one of the all-time classics. That Healed sure knows how to turn a colorful phrase!

Duncan

[hombre (hombre)]

BAD SPELLING, GRAMMAR & PUNCTUATION!!!!

fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
your the real Church that everyone just cant wait to follow
end quote.



fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
this is the most evil and vial language!
end quote.



fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
your wicked and should repent!
end quote.


fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
cougar ,your just as bad for going along with this evil!
end quote.



fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
your "full of the devil!" just like the rest of those "socalled current FA leaders"
end quote.

______________________________________________

NAME CALLING!!!!!!

fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
your a liar and your words here prove it!
end quote.



fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
your "full of the devil!" just like the rest of those "socalled current FA leaders"
end quote.




fivefoldprophet (fivefoldprophet)
Intermediate Member
Username: fivefoldprophet

Post Number: 331

quote:
I believe it Hombre the way you embrace these evil sick men'
who talk satanic and make demonic statements
your right at home with your evil friends
these people have no relationship with the teaching of Dr Hobart Freeman and are deceivers!
You current Faith Assembly socalled Leadership may have hyjacked Freemans tapes
and are selling them,, but your deceivers and full of the devil!
end quote.


__________________________________________________ _____________

You had better repent!
.....show me one Dr Freeman tape that teaches this kind of behavior!
DR Freeman would be ashamed!
and I know Jesus is!


Hey.

How do you like me now?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

You know, you haven't listened to a word I've said to you,
or learned a single thing about anyone here.
You continue to play your stupid little power game,
and spit back all your referenced out of context crapola
that no one is interested in hearing.

So you get what you asked for.

You want to play Gods' little prophet?

Here's a nice prophecy for you to think about,
it is found in the 'book of Revelation'

ALL DECEIVERS ( etc.) SHALL FIND THEIR PART
IN THE LAKE THAT BURNS WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE.
THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.

THAT WOULD INCLUDE BELIEF IN,
AND TEACHING HERESY/FALSE DOCTRINE
ABOUT JESUS DYING SPIRITUALLY.

__________________________________________________ ___

BTW: I sense a note of condescension, anger and
hope for impending judgment in your phony desire
for us all to 'be blessed'.

Anyway,.....: 'Be blessed young man,
and may all your dreams be of things sweet and nice'.

__________________________________________________ ____

Did you learn that last lesson I just gave you,
or do I need to spell it out for you again?