For those of your that are still hurting therebs hope

[timhortonsman]

I just about fell off my chair when my brother sent me this (and others) weblinks about Freeman. It has been sooo many years since I've even thought about it, and personally I'd prefer to keep it that way. You don't have to spend much time here to know that there are still alot of hurting people out there. I wanted to post and let you know that if your hurting there is help.

When Chris and I left Haysville Assembly (I don't even like thinking about it anymorehttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif) we were pretty mixed up and hurting. We were front and centre in a nasty church split over the issue of divorce and remarriage and we were about to get married shortly when our parents got kicked out forcing us to make a choice. Thankfully it was shortly before Freeman died and so the church fell apart so it didn't matter anymore. Surprisingly some people were able to make the transition from FA (Haysville assembly Jerry Eccles church) to normal church without any baggage. Not us.

After the church fell apart we drifted from Church to church for quite a few years till we got involved in Vineyard. It was here that we started to get help. People introduced us to the idea of counseling (OH MY GOD ISN'T THAT A LACK OF FAITH gag me with a pitch fork). It took us a while to find a good counselor and it wasn't easy at times but it really really helped. I can't put enough emphasis on how much getting counseling help us work everything through. While it wasn't easy at times we both got through and are much stronger for it.

Secondly I'd highly recommend Philip Yancey's books. I'd start with Soul Survivor (how my faith survived the church) While counseling helped us get over the hurt and pain of FA Philip Yancey brought us back to God. (even today I still avoid a lot the religious lingo) Today we attend a fantastic church in Madrid and have long put the bad old days of haysville and FA behind us.

If your hurting there is help out there.

I won't be spending much time here but I am on email notification so I'll check back time to time

Rob

(Message edited by timhortonsman on December 26, 2006)

[active_angel]

I like your honesty! ANd forth rightness!!!Would love to hear more!

[barn_kid]

Unlike Activeangel, I actually attended the Glory Barn and Faith Assembly. I've no recollection of anyone suggesting that counseling was a lack of faith. In fact, we all know that Dr. Freeman met with people and punted some off to the "kinder and gentler" more "pastoral" types who were associate pastors at Faith Assembly.

Honestly, I really don't understand why people say they are still hurting over the Faith Assembly experience. It happened at least 20 years ago. It isn't like we were living through concentration camps or Darfur http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/08/60minutes/main648277.shtml

We didn't get to celebrate CHRISTMAS, sat through Jerry Ervins 2 hour messages and got a little hungry, the girls had to wear dresses all the time and got alot of grief in school, we suffered some with not going to doctors and grew up differently than the kids around us, and for the most part, lived in a way that was not all that dissimilar from how people did 100 years ago. Woopdedoo. :shrug:

[barn_kid]

Unlike Activeangel, I actually attended the Glory Barn and Faith Assembly. I've no recollection of anyone suggesting that counseling was a lack of faith. In fact, we all know that Dr. Freeman met with people and punted some off to the "kinder and gentler" more "pastoral" types who were associate pastors at Faith Assembly.

But of course you know that since you were a regular at Faith Assembly, right?

Honestly, I really don't understand why people say they are still hurting over the Faith Assembly experience. It happened at least 20 years ago. It isn't like we were living through concentration camps or Darfur http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/08/60minutes/main648277.shtml

We didn't get to celebrate CHRISTMAS, sat through Jerry Ervins 2 hour messages and got a little hungry, the girls had to wear dresses all the time and got alot of grief in school, we suffered some with not going to doctors and grew up differently than the kids around us, and for the most part, lived in a way that was not all that dissimilar from how people did 100 years ago. Woopdedoo. :shrug:

[timhortonsman]

while he never said it was implied. My only reason for posting that is so many people are left hurt and damaged by the church (any church not just FA). What happens is they get angry at the church and lose faith in God. The only reason for my comment was if you feel that way you ought to take some time and read Philip Yanceys Soul Survivor book and see if you can't re find your faith. If your fine great but many people aren't.

[timhortonsman]

while he never said it was implied. Anyways that is beside the point My only reason for posting that is so many people are left hurt and damaged by the church (any church not just FA). What happens is they get angry at the church and lose faith in God. The only reason for my comment was if you feel that way you ought to take some time and read Philip Yanceys Soul Survivor book and see if you can't re find your faith. If your fine great but many people aren't.

[micah]

I agree with barn kid, it was no concentration camp, (insert fancy B>S>linkhere) but the part that makes me fume is how badly Jesus was misrepresented and all we get is a "it could be worse" attitude and a shoulder shrug? Wow. But he is absolutely right in how its not much different than 100 years ago, but let me ask this- is it wise to live like it was 100 years ago? No. It can land you in jail (and rightly so I will add) if you neglect to get proper treatment for your child and it dies from something as common and curable as pnemonia. Not only is there a total lack of wisdom there but we add the God thing to it and tell our neighbors (by our actions) that this is what God wants and who he is. The gross negligence in being salt and light and truth and bringing the kingdom to earth as it is in heaven is (and was in FA) completely lost. How is that only worth a shrug of the shoulder? I understand that there is evil in the world, I would say Hobart and Hitler are polar opposites, but I wont look a girl thats just been raped in the eyes and tell her it could be worse.

[hombre]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

We didn't get to celebrate CHRISTMAS, sat through Jerry Ervins 2 hour messages and got a little hungry, the girls had to wear dresses all the time and got alot of grief in school, we suffered some with not going to doctors and grew up differently than the kids around us, and for the most part, lived in a way that was not all that dissimilar from how people did 100 years ago. Woopdedoo. :shrug:<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Congratulations, you made it to adulthood. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

I agree with barn kid, it was no concentration camp, (insert fancy B>S>linkhere) but the part that makes me fume is how badly Jesus was misrepresented and all we get is a "it could be worse" attitude and a shoulder shrug?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

1. That was no 'B.S.' Link. That, my friend is a reality that - is/has been/will be - lived every day around the world by countless thousands. We as Americans have been insulated by our culture by much of what goes on in this world. The comparison is a reality check, demonstrating very clearly, that what anyone experienced at FA, pales in comparison with what much of the rest of the world experiences. 2. FA and HEF are not responsible for what is contained within the Bible. HEF merely taught what is in it. How people individually chose to implement it in their lives, was their choice. No one was shackled or imprisoned, forced or coerced to do anything. People believed what they read, and followed it. What their personal circumstances were is anyones guess ( i.e. whether they were following the Word of God and had a personal relationship with Jesus the Christ or were simply overly religious without a foundation ). 3. Lots of women have been raped, and so have lots of men. It's a terrible thing, regardless of the circumstances. What we disagree with, it appears, is that this particular account is/was being used and twisted into just another way to slam FA and HEF, who had absolutely nothing to do with it.

[micah]

I dont see how you can say that HEF and FA had nothing to do with what went on in FA. It is akin to saying that Hitler was not responsible for what the Germans did in WW2.

Are you that blind?
Or ignorant?

Let me ask you this, and answer honestly as a Christian should. (i am simply chiding you at this point)

Think of a church that is preaching a "watered down" version of "the word".
Think.
Close your eyes if you must.

Now open them and tell me that you do not in any way shape or form think that the pastor of that church is responsible for the lack of growth and maturity in the lives of those that attend that church.

[hombre]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Posted by odysseus on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 7:07 pm:

Hombre,

You?re a cold hearted man. You show no compassion for the oppressed at
all. You?re a fraud and as I said previously, a ?poltroon?. I would
like to meet you in person.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

....although I don't understand why a person would post something, and then delete it, I do see somewhat of a ambiguity of purpose within the statements. First this fellow derides me, then he wants to meet me. Perhaps I am reading this wrong. Perhaps he wants to meet me, so that he can demonstrate his Christianity to me through a slugfest. That would make sense. Allright, Mr. Odysseus, I'll come to see you. Just give me the name of the asylum that you are currently institutionalized within, and I'll be happy to come by and pray for you with your chaplain. BTW: Do you need me to bring anything from the outside that you miss? ....perhaps a newspaper, or a teddy bear?

[hombre]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

I dont see how you can say that HEF and FA had nothing to do with what went on in FA. It is akin to saying that Hitler was not responsible for what the Germans did in WW2. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

No, it is not akin. You are drawing ridiculous parallels.

Hitler actively participated in, and gave orders to exterminate people through force.

Hobart proclaimed the Word of God, and people did whatever they did with it, though the exercize of their own free wills.

That is a black and white difference.

You might also want to read the first amendment to the Constitution of the US.

It goes like this: 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.'

People here in the US have a inalienable human right to practice their religion, whatever that may be, which is what we did and continue to do.

You also have the right to criticize anyone you want, through free speech in the same amendment.

I frankly don't care what you, or Unhealed, or the explorer of insanity, Odyseuss, have to say about what the Word of God says, and that is really the issue here, not HEF.

...neither do you give heed to what I have to say.

We do not agree on the topic, and more than likely never will, as long as you continue to blame others and live in the past, without ever really bothering to read the Word of God with an open and inquiring heart.

[odysseus]

If you would like to meet me GREAT! I can assure you I don’t want a slugfest, you just intrigue me.

On the other hand if you insult me like you did on your past post I can tell you I won’t tolerate it. So if you like to meet me you can meet me at the AMVETS post in Anderson, Monday around 4PM.

If you behave yourself I’ll buy you a beer. If you don’t then well…..