WHO wants to tell their REAL names now that this is ending

[barn_kid]

Just wondering if anyone had the nerve.......

[passin_thru]

Barn_kid: Here? A… NO! However, I’m willing to give an email address. I’d like staying in contact with anyone, except Michael. He’s got issues.

Hombre, sorry you were offended. Yeah, my post in the other thread was harsh. However, I’ve lost relatives to this crap. They also quoted chapter and verse. I’ve heard it all a million times. It still doesn’t make it true. If you really want answers, you don’t have to listen to my take. There’s good information out there about the fallacy of ‘word of faith’.

[mark1124]

There is also good information about the word of faith. It is called the Bible. What you see from WOF teaching is heresy and not biblical, like you see in WOF teachers like Copeland, Hinn, Price, Avazini, Crouch, etc. And I would not knock the faith message as it is the only way to receive anything from God. After all, we are saved by faith (through grace). We believe that our names are written in the Lamb's book of life. We believe that God answers prayer. That's faith...because we put our trust in a faithful God. Faith is trusting God for all things.

Passin_thru, you may have relatives that you lost through the faith message and my heart goes out to you. I am sorry that it happened to you. But there were others who received from God through the message of faith. And there were people who received from God through the message that Freeman taught, including me. Why did it work for some and not for others? I don't know. I can't answer that. I can only answer for myself. All I can do is to look in the mirror of the word of God to get my answers. Where did I miss it? What conditions did I miss? Is there sin in my life? Am I willing to wait for God to answer my prayer? And on and on.

Unfortunately, I think we are too quick to put the blame on others rather than looking at ourselves to see what we did wrong. I call it the Adam and Eve mentality. And that's what I see here with everyone blaming Freeman for the teaching and quite frankly, I don't buy it. Sorry folks. That's how I see it and I won't change that. I mean...if I sin, whose fault is it? Mine or the devil's for tempting me? I cannot blame the devil for tempting me. I have to take the blame myself for yielding to it.

I know there are people who are bitter over losing loved ones and I pray for you. I can read it in your posts. You may deny it, but I can discern it. I don't hate anyone who hates Freeman either. I may have sounded off against those of you who have and to those who have said things about me and that's fine. First off, I apologize for those things that I said and I forgive those who have offended me for what I believe. Call me a Freemanite or anything you like. It doesn't matter. They called Jesus worse.

Anyway, I plan not to write much more unless the need arises. Perhaps we can start our own forum once this Factnet stuff is over. Or maybe I should send Factnet Freeman's Faith book so they can claim the finances needed to keep this thing up and running. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

God bless.

Mark

[mark1124]

And by the way, I too would like to stay in contact with anyone here, except Michael. Passing_thru is right about Michael...he has issues...SERIOUS issues. I think those issues are demonic. Lest I get off on that tangent again, I'd better hush. Don't get me started on that maniac again.

[duncan]

Barn Kid,
I've been using my real name all along, plus I have mentioned that my father preached on a regular basis at FA, so anyone who actually went there should know me.

If this site is truly going down, I feel like we're coming to the end of a TV show. We've got a lot of characters on our "show", and now we are preparing for the series finale.

Let's just hope that it's not a series finale like "The Sopranos". I would hate to think that some of us are going to get "whacked."

Duncan

[hombre]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

PASSIN: ...Hombre, sorry you were offended. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Apology accepted. I still think that some are typecasting me, regardless of what I say though.

If you want to believe for your healing through faith in God, or whether you go to a doctor is IMO, none of my business, or anybody elses, and certainly should never be something that is legislated by a religious authority, or anyone else. That is a sacred freedom. Where I agree with the FA 'kids' is when parents hold authority over the children who have no rights. I'm not even going there, because there is an issue of inherent constitutional religious freedom that needs to be protected as much as the lives of the children. I think that each case would have to be judged on its own. Certainly, I have seen both sides, and some of he stories I have read from you and others were horrendous.

I don't hold any ill will towards you, passin, and I understand what it means to lose a loved one. I have suffered as well, yet I have also experienced some remarkable things, that are absolutely impossible for me to deny, regardless of who stands against me. My concern is for leaving the Bible untouched and examining our own hearts and lives; that is where I believe the solution lies. Whether we have the honesty to admit our own lack of commitment or sin in our lives and attempt to deal with it, or to recognize that we aren't yet at the level of faith that Jesus walked in, just because we have some knowledge. Better in my mind to visit a doctor and live another day than to die for the sake of unanswered prayer.

To me, dying in persecution is honorable, and dying of an incurable disease is tragic, but dying as the result of the dogged determination to receive healing from God, rather than medicine, is a wrong approach. I think that healing from God, is a result of ones' relationship with Him, not because of ones' rejection of something else.

That is where, IMO, so many people went down the wrong path.

....as I said before, I believe, one of the problems was that their faith was in their faith, rather than in their relationship with God.

...besides...the entire healing issue to me is not a prerequisite to ones' salvation. I see that the condition to salvation is believing, not on whether one receives a healing or not. Did not Jesus Himself say that many would come to Him in that day saying 'Lord, Lord, have we not done many wonderful works in your name?'...and yet Jesus says in return to depart from Him because He never knew them. People may have received because of their faith, but Jesus was/is not looking for people who maintain a sort of religious form. he is looking for a relationship, that is why we were created...to share in His glory in the recognition of how good He is.

That's the key, my friends...knowing God, not just knowing about Him.

(Message edited by hombre on June 15, 2007)

[micah]

i have no problem giving my name, (Micah Gibson) as I am not afraid of what any man can do to me, and I am in good standing because I am not ashamed of anything I have posted on this site either (like that matters)
I feel for those that have grown up with the same baggage that I have, I wonder how others could be so blind to what the kids of FA dealt with, but my parents had a much different experience than I did. They came to it on their own and I did not. That does not justify the situation, and there is truth in what HEF taught. Just like there is truth in what the Jehovah's witnesses teach, or the Mormons, or Catholics, all of these groups of "Christians". Jehovah's witnesses believe in the kingdom. The Mormons believe that Jesus was the Son of God. The Catholics believe that Jesus was raised from the dead, does that mean that every other aspect of their doctrine is right?
What I am saying is this. All truth is Gods truth. Any human being can find at least one point of truth in any religion they follow. But if you take a closer look at any religion you can find things that dont add up to what your understanding of God is. This is part of the beauty of God that so many people miss. This beauty is found in the Bible. If we study the bible for what it really says, not for what we want to fit into our American world view, but what the writers were saying to the audience it was written for, and the implications of what exactly that means for us, we will constantly learn and grow, we will be transformed by the renewing of our minds, in other words we will begin to think differently. Who will take me to task on that? Who would say that at some point they understand the full complexity of the bible and there is no more room to grow or learn? WHO WILL DO THAT? BUT THAT IS THE CLAIM THAT THOSE WHO WENT TO F.A. MAKE. They claim to have "all the light"

That is dangerous, and all can see where that led to. It was good for a while, but look at it now, just look, the Mormon church as a whole is in better shape than FA. Even those that still hold to the teachings of FA (so to speak) do not attend the church. Whats up with that?
I personally know ALLOT of people that came out of it. That is a statement right there. They learned from the truths that were taught there, but they left because they realized through deeper study of the bible that part of the doctrine was whacked.

That speaks volumes to me.

If I could make one plea to my generation, it would be this, lets learn to really love the body of Christ, the way that God feels about his church is this, (Amos) She is a whore, but she is my lover.

[hombre]

I don't.

I have already been physically threatened by one of you who considers himself to be a guardian of what he believes the Bible does not say.

...besides, there is this other board: http://www.overcomersonline.com where any of you, with the exception of the dual-personalitied, aforementioned nutcase are welcome to discuss religious matters, even the guy that thinks he's healed.

[hombre]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

MICAH:....They learned from the truths that were taught there, but they left because they realized through deeper study of the bible that part of the doctrine was whacked. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

I have issue with that.

First, people left because their lives did not reflect what they had been taught, and what is clearly taught in the Bible.

Secondly, you need to tell us all what 'deeper study' enabled you and the others you refer to, to be able to look at Mark 11:24 and deny what it clearly says.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

MICAH:....if I could make one plea to my generation, it would be this, lets learn to really love the body of Christ, the way that God feels about his church is this, (Amos) She is a whore, but she is my lover.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Hey, thanks for some more confusion.
So, your take on Amos is that we're supposed to hold hands and sing kumbaya, even though we're in disagreement on basic doctrinal issues? You sound like a Republican. Let's just try to get along with and placate the Dems, and then everything will be OK.

Here's the issue pard.

People out there, like yourself, are twisting the Word of God to make themselves happier about what it says, but there are these other guys who won't throw the towel in, because they don't like the idea of doing that.

I don't think they're gonna make good lovers....at all.

I hate....may I repeat this...I HATE the changing of any of the Word of God, to make someone happy, including myself.

Can I love someone who does?

That is a really good question.

Jesus called them vipers, graves full of unclean dead mens bones, among other things. he also asked this question to them:

'Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers HOW can you escape the damnation of hell?

Apparently, He didn't have any plans to save them; and if you know anything about Gods' sovereignty, predestination and election, you know then that not everyone gets saved in the end. That would presumably mean those who reject Christ, and His Word, not only in principle, but by twisting it to fit their own lives.

Here, let me give you an example.

That is not for today. That ended somewhere in the disciples era. That means then that we don't have to have that responsibility on our shoulders...to believe it, or obey it.

Say, y'know, I really don't like the one about not drinking heavily, or fornicating. We could do the same thing to those scriptures too. Why are those any different than the ones about faith?...and while we're at it, I need a little vengeance, and I don't feel particularly like loving a bunch of insulting brats, one of whom has recently compared me and others from the 'old FA' to gutter bums. I think it might be time to play Clint Eastwood for awhile.

...so tell me, brats, why I should honor any of it?

...and who the hell made you brats God, that you think that you can pick and choose between what is and what isn't Gods' Word?

The question, once again for the umpteenth time is this:

What does Mark 11:24 mean, if it doesn't mean what it says it means?

(Message edited by hombre on June 18, 2007)

[passin_thru]

The few remaining ‘overcomers’ endlessly continue to make Mark 11:24 a shrine. To them, as it was with my relatives, it’s where God begins and ends.

As I’ve often said before, it’s useless to discuss scripture with anyone who holds Hobart Freeman close to their heart. However, I will say Mark 11:24 is for the glory of God, not the glory of man. It’s not there to serve us or make us greater than the mere mortals we are while on this planet. It does not remove us from living in the physical world and suffering all things common to man.

This was one of Freeman’s crucial errors. He emphasized relatively minor verses like Mark 11:24 and the 144,000 of Revelations. At the same time, he de-emphasized the major tenets of love, humility and Christian service. The results were deadly.

Mark 11:24 is not the only verse in the Bible that bears prudent scrutiny and shouldn’t be used to as a doctrinal foundation. As an example, Mark 16:17-19 is another passage that some misguided people feel compelled to worship. Every so often, one of them dies from the practice.

I do not spend undue time on Bible passages that experts have pondered and debated for millenniums. I figure if no one else understands it all, I probably won’t be the first. Besides, the Bible makes abundantly clear the important things Christians are to be most concerned with.

So many times, it seems false prophets come toting a handful of obscure Bible verses to seduce and deceive. They preach God has revealed to them the true meaning of these things. People follow them who want to be special and don’t want the everyday ‘often-mundane’ life of an ordinary Christian.

The end result of such sects is usually ruination.

[micah]

You (hombre) can play Clint Eastwood or whoever else you want to, but I will remind you that you are just playing.

If you would like to make Mark 11:24 the basis and the end all to your walk with God you can. But I cannot, it goes so much deeper than just praying and believing that what you prayed will come true. Please dont forget Mark 11:25 when you are so quick to quote verse 24. What would you say to me if I said that I Corinthians 13 is the basis for my walk with God, what would you tell me? Would you say that I was missing the most important verse in the bible?

My point is this, you seem to base your walk with God on Mark 11;24, thats fine, if that is your understanding of God, but can you take it if someone else says that their understanding of who God is can better be described in I Corinthians 13?
There is allot to be said about love, and yes I think we should love the body of Christ, not placate them, as I am so obviously not doing to you, but speak the truth.

I dont care if you think I am a brat, Your opinion of me is only important to you. And as I have said a million times, look at the fruit. How many people attend FA? how many people are waiting at 5 in the morning just to get a seat? I agree with you 100% when you say "people left because their lives did not reflect what they had been taught"
no one can truly live the message that was taught, not even the person who taught that message. Hello? He died from a treatable disease. So what do you do with that?

I would like to know, quote Mark 11:24 as much as Hobart did until YOU die. That will heal you just like it healed him. Do I need to point out the obvious flaw here? Let me do it by asking a question that you may not have the testes to answer. Did Hobart believe that God would heal him? Did he ask? I can understand if he never prayed and asked God to heal him, after all Mark 11:24 says that anything that you pray for will be granted, so he must have never asked. What is your answer for that one?

Whatever your answer is I dont care because I have him ON TAPE saying that he has been healed and even jumping on his infested foot to prove it (at which point the crowd went wild)

What do you do with that? what is your opinion of why he died?

You (hombre) said this: "Hey, thanks for some more confusion.
So, your take on Amos is that we're supposed to hold hands and sing kumbaya, even though we're in disagreement on basic doctrinal issues?"
My answer is this. Jesus said that you must confess with your mouth and believe in you heart that he is the Son of God and you will be saved. (so at that point I can say with assurance that saying the sinners prayer does not make you saved, but that is besides the point) I know that the truth did not skip 2000 years and resurface in the 70's with the beginning of FA. So to that extent I must say yes, we must hold hands around the campfire and sing a stupid song with those we dont agree with on every "jot and tiddle" (as Steve Hill loved to say) We MUST love the body of Christ.

Do you (hombre) believe that you are saved by faith alone?

As for your last post (which I saw was edited,...why not just write and pay enough attention to let your words stand?)
The den of vipers that Jesus talked about were the people that held the law in such high esteem that they went to the umpteenth degree to uphold that law, he was not addressing the ones that really wanted to know God and had a heart to follow after him, so be careful, because I could make the same case against you. }