Overcoming Hobart Freeman

[passin_thru]

Over the past several months, I’ve thought about the legacy of Hobart Freeman, his theology and the Faith Assembly membership. When all is said and done, it’s the fruits that determine the worth of a man and his teaching. More than twenty years after his death, the final outcome is clear. Even among the few remaining ardent Freeman supporters, there is some acknowledgement of the facts.

1. Hobart Freeman taught going to doctors and using medicine was of the devil and trusting in the hand of flesh. Many people died (including himself and his grandson) while practicing his faith formula and abstaining from medical care. Followers considered the deaths and suffering inconsequential, per the validity of the Freeman’s teaching. Rather, it was the unhealed and dead who were blamed as failures.

People believed those who died had insufficient faith or something hindering their prayer for healing (unrepentant sin). The exception was Hobart Freeman. His death was glorified. God simply called him home. In reality, Hobart Freeman died from an untreated foot turned gangrenous, possibly a complication of undiagnosed diabetes.

2. Hobart Freeman also taught a ‘deeper life’ that involved the term ‘overcomer’. Overcomers were said to be an elite group of Christians. This unsubstantiated teaching referenced the 144,000 of Revelations. Overcomers characteristically became acutely judgmental and condescending towards other people.

3. Faith Assembly members were in awe of Hobart Freeman. He was their revered ‘anointed prophet’. There was no check and balance. His message was the only message.

4. Shortly after Hobart Freeman’s death, Faith Assembly dissolved amidst disagreement and disarray. The original ‘Glory Barn’ burned down, possibly a result of arson. Many ex-members and their children had difficulties stemming from past Faith Assembly association. Hobart Freeman and his ill-fated teachings are now virtually forgotten.

Given the aforementioned fruits of Hobart Freeman, the following Bible passage is eerily fitting in description and warning:

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them… A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?” Then I will tell them plainly, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”

[passin_thru]

The few remaining overcomers justify their continuing admiration for Hobart Freeman by maintaining his teaching cannot be refuted, per the Bible. This is true only because they use Freeman’s theology to discern the Bible. For instance, the major biblical theme of love for God and others is relegated to minor importance. Loving others is treated with a cavalier attitude uncharacteristic among Christians. Therefore, overcomers do not realize Freeman’s flawed teaching is in opposition to biblical truth and priorities (e.g. Matthew 25:31-46).

Some speak of Freeman’s one of a kind ‘strong word’ to justify their continued loyalty. This refers to a fundamental biblical approach to walking-the-walk, rather than just talking-the-talk. However, there other churches that practice very conservative adherence to God’s commands. This was certainly not uniquely Hobart Freeman. The ‘strong word’ also sometimes refers to Freeman’s charismatic preaching prowess. This is a personal attribute. While a useful talent, it is hardly unique or praise worthy.

A few others still feel a ‘friendly’ connection to Hobart Freeman and Faith Assembly. They express themselves with phrases like, “I learned a lot. You could feel God’s presence at the meetings. It wasn’t all death and suffering. It was a happening.” Yeah well, I’m sure glad you had a nice time while birthing mothers bled to death from tearing that a few sutures could have closed, and children died from everyday infections that a single shot of penicillin could have cured.

The Lord has such a better plan for us than Hobart Freeman and an overcomer label. It’s as big a difference as day and night.

[passin_thru]

.

CORRECTION:

After rereading my first post above and checking my facts, I realized I had the Glory Barn fire out of sequence. The fire occurred 4 1/2 years prior to Hobart Freeman’s death, not after.

Dang edit 30 minute time limit.


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[mark1124]

Another intelligent bit of verbage nonsense from the high and mighty better than anyone else member of Faithless Assembly.

Thank God that the message is still alive thanks to God preserving it, whether the members of Faithless Assembly (micah, healed, passout and others) receive it, believe it, obey it, or walk in it or not. The message is still true inspite of those cult members.

[passin_thru]

Tell me ‘overcomer’, what makes the rotten fruits outlined above worth it all? You say God preserved Freeman's message. Where, for what and who? Do you mean thirty year old antique cassette tapes and out of print moldy books? You better be able to defend following Freeman a lot better than you do here in FACTnet. Otherwise, Matthew 7:15-23 may haunt you for eternity. Hopefully, one day you’ll find the faith to stop following a dead man and start following the living Son.

The next two posts are chilling accounts of Faith Assembly inspired death. How anyone could read these and believe Hobart Freeman was some anointed prophet is beyond comprehension. Rather, it is sinful man and the devil that causes needless suffering and wanton waste of innocent life.

[passin_thru]

Excerpt taken from ‘The battle over faith healing’ by Mark Larabee (The Oregonian/11-28-98):

Most people have long forgotten the heyday of the Faith Assembly Church in nearby Wilmot, a now-defunct congregation of about 2,000. But Elizabeth Leach will never forget how her 24-year-old daughter, Alice, bled to death during childbirth on July 2, 1976.

Alice Leach wasn't the first to die for believing in the doctrines taught by the Faith Assembly. Nor the last. More than 90 deaths in eight states -- a majority of which were children or mothers in childbirth -- were blamed on the faith-healing practices in that one church, according to child advocates and news reports.

Shortly after graduating, Alice joined Faith Assembly, fell in love with another member, got married and became pregnant. She never had prenatal care and decided to have the baby at home without a doctor. During the birth Alice started hemorrhaging.

Members of Faith Assembly surrounded Alice as her life slipped away over two days. The women attending the birth prayed instead of calling for an ambulance -- even after Alice died. One, a registered nurse, later lost her state license over the incident.

"Those people thought they could pray her back to life," Leach said.

[passin_thru]

Excerpt taken from ‘The battle over faith healing’ by Mark Larabee (The Oregonian/11-28-98):

The most disturbing case to local authorities was the March 1980 death of 4-year-old Natali Joy Mudd. She died from a tumor in her eye which eventually grew to the size of her head.

Responding to a phone call from her parents, police found blood trails along the walls of the house where the girl, nearly blind from the tumor, had dragged her head as she tried to navigate from room to room.

"It's hard to comprehend a little toddler going through all that because of religion, with all the treatments available," said Sgt. Gerald D. Oswalt, one of the police officers who investigated.

[mark1124]

You know, pass_thru. Let me tell you something.
If I were to go into business for myself, who do you think I would consult to get information on how to do is? A failure? Or a success? So it is with the matter of healing. I do not read the stories of people who did not get healed to help me in my faith. I only listen and read stories and testimonies of people who believed God and received their healing. So you can post all the monkey crap you want to. It will still not change what the Bible teaches about Jesus being the Healer. And I certainly could care less what authors like Mark Larabee has to say. I only care about what the Author of the Bible has to say..."By His stripes we are healed....I am the Lord that healeth thee."

[passin_thru]

Mark, your posts are so very foolish. You say you listen only to successes, not failures. These ARE testimonies of the self-anointed prophet to whom you listen. He also died from his false teaching. He also was a failure. Why do you continue to listen to him?

By the way, the verse you quote (Isaiah 53:5) is one ‘word of faith’ advocates love to tote. However, the verse is conservatively interpreted as referring more to spiritual healing than physical healing. Every verse in the Bible shouldn’t be scrutinized per what we can get from God. Most times, it’s what He’s already done for us that matters most.

[passin_thru]

There is no biblical justification for Hobart Freeman’s rotten fruits. The Bible never says we are to slavishly follow and revere a self-anointed prophet. The Bible doesn’t warn us of suffering and death from practicing faith in the Lord. The Bible never says we are to call ourselves ‘overcomers’ and believe we’re superior.

Overcomers should realize they too were unimportant to Freeman. Had they been one of the sick; Faith Assembly would not have lifted a finger to help them. Had they died, they also would have been branded a faithless unrepentant sinner.

Hobart Freeman’s death may have been the only thing that prevented Faith Assembly from becoming much worse. While others can see a cult’s harm and abuse, cult members are blind to it. I know a lady who had plane ticket in hand to join father Jim Jones when news hit of the suicides. To this day, she doesn’t speak ill of Jones. The most she will say is he was a good man pushed by others to do a bad thing. Then there was David Koresh. Parents provided their 12 and 13 year old daughters to him. Some survivors still maintain the prophet simply had need of the girls. Recently, Warren Jeffs was arrested for marrying underage girls to adult men. Cult members are still loyal to him. They want the evil government to release their prophet.

In one regards, Hobart Freeman was unique among false prophets. He’s the only one I know of who properly taught the doctrine of Christ and salvation. However, even that seemed to wane as people gave themselves to him. My overcomer relatives have said things like, “It’s not all about Jesus.” Those words are so foreign for Christians to utter. It makes me shudder and wonder who they ultimately trust for their salvation.

[mark1124]

Well now...Hobart Freeman is a false prophet. Please tell me what prophecies did he utter that did not come to pass which made him a false prophet.

You and the rest of the members of the Faithless Assembly Cult would not give me scriptures where Freeman was wrong. So let's try it again. I'll give you a second chance to prove yourself right.
Give me examples where his prophecies failed.
And BTW...just because something didn't happen that Freeman prophesied doesn't mean that they won't. After all, we've been waiting for the Lord for 2000 years now, haven't we? Since it hasn't happened yet, does that mean that the writers of the Bible were false prophets too?

OK...ball is in your court.

[passin_thru]

Mark, I can’t help but be concerned about the small caliber of your firepower. Then again, maybe I haven’t been clear. From my first post in this thread, I have built the case why Hobart Freeman was a false prophet. Perhaps you should reread the whole thread from the top down.

I’m not concerned with the inaccuracy of whatever prophecies Freeman made. That’s an Old Testament definition of a false prophet. Rather, my concern is with the words of Jesus found in Matthew 7:15-23. I outlined and documented the major rotten fruits of Hobart Freeman’s false teaching. Therefore, the man was nothing more than another false prophet.

[passin_thru]

The only thing Hobart Freeman cultists have left is their precious ‘overcomer’ label. After three decades, overcomer lives are no more holy. Their prayers are not answered any better than those of Christians. Most overcomers are now hypocrites. They no longer adhere to Freeman’s legalistic edicts. They also go to doctors and dentists. However, they don’t tell about it. They still maintain it’s trusting in the hand of flesh.

Personally, I view going to a doctor similar to taking my car to a mechanic. Both have expertise and equipment I do not possess. It is still God I trust and pray to for healing, as well as everything else. The truth is, it is overcomers who have put their trust in the hand of flesh. They put trust in the cult teachings of one man.

My overcomer relatives haven’t been to a church worship service in decades. No one is good enough for their fellowship. They listen to tapes and wait for God to mobilize them as part of His 144,000 end-time army. In the last quarter century, they have done absolutely nothing for God. I much prefer being out there making mistakes for God.

They have so much Bible knowledge. They could be such a spiritual resource and comfort to people. However, a dead man has them tied in knots. They've played into Satan’s hands. If he can’t stop us from believing in Jesus, his next ploy is to render us useless. What better way for the devil to deceive than with superiority, contempt for others and power. After all, it was his first sin (pride).

[barn_kid]

Passing thru, I find it an irony that you seem to pretty much embody the attributes of the Freemanites I can't stand. Obnoxious, bitter, know it alls.........

[passin_thru]

I’m sorry you take me that way, but so be it. From your other posts, I see you too are obnoxious, bitter and bit of a know-it-all:

“Grow up already. For the most part, it was grown adults who went there and if you think it was wrong now, then GET OVER IT. Nobody held a gun to your head and made you go sit and listen. Dr. Freeman never came to anyone's house and checked in to see whether you took Tylenol.”

You’ll have to forgive me (or not). I have more sympathy and pity for those like Natali (documented above) in this world, than people who tell others to ‘get over it’ or overcomers who spew how great Hobart Freeman was.

[passin_thru]

Thus, Hobart Freeman was a false prophet, per his rotten fruits described above and defined by:

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. (Matthew 7:15-20)

Furthermore, Freeman’s perspective for discerning the Bible was corrupt and led to belief in superiority, contempt for others and preoccupation with supernatural power. Obviously, this perspective is very wrong:

Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?” Then I will tell them plainly, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” (Matthew 7:21-23)

Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.” They also will answer, “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?” He will reply, “I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.” (Matthew 25:41-45)

Rather, the proper perspective by which we can correctly discern the Word of God and do the will of God is:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

The commandments, do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (Romans 13:9-10)

Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence (1 John 3:18-19)

Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.” Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?” The King will reply, “I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.” (Matthew 25:34-40)




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[mark1124]

Much irrelevant scripture regarding the subject of false prophecies. It's nice to see that pass out has left and gone back to his pernicious and immoral ways.

[mark1124]

Much irrelevant scripture regarding the subject of false prophecies. It's nice to see that pass out has left and gone back to his pernicious and immoral ways.

[micah]

much relief to know that you the pharisee are still here to obloviate and judge anyone you can point at that you assume to be less of a christian than you.

it warms my soul like the pee in my pants.

i love you mark.

[mark1124]

You pee in your pants? I thought you were potty trained years ago.

I guess I was wrong about you Micah.

[odysseus]

Mark,

I was just wondering about your insults to Micah and others. Is this the hallmark of an ‘Overcomer’ or an Over-Can’t? You know something, I think Hobart Freeman, (if he was alive today) would be very disappointed in your behavior and your insulting behavior toward others.

Maybe ‘Five Fold’ was correct when he prophesied against you to ‘dry up’. Cause your intellect seems to have dried up and gone away. Faaaaaaaaaar awaaaaaaaay….

Maybe you need an “I Corinthians 5:5” treatment. (5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.) I recall you seem to have shown great joy in calling that chapter and verse down against someone else who disagreed with you. Hey, maybe it’s your turn now.

Now you stay away from those three Stooges web sites, ok?

Your and ‘Over-Comer’? Nah, I don’t think so…..

(Message edited by odysseus on April 07, 2007)

[mark1124]

Um...Michael's prophecy of me drying up is a false prophecy. I am more on fire for the word than I ever have and I am getting hotter. I am far from being dried up.

So I guess you were fooled by Fiver's false prophecy. Next question please.

I notice that you stuck up for Micah. What's the saying...birds of a feather....

That's OK. You guys can be against me. God is for me so who can be against me? Nobody.

[hombre]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

PASSIN-THRU: I much prefer being out there making mistakes for God. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

HA-HA!...NO FURTHER COMMENT.

[duncan]

What's going on with Factnet's emailing of posts? I just got a HUGE block of posts and about halfway through them, I noticed that they were from February? Have the rest of you had similar experiences? Also, when I post a message, I am no longer getting a confirmation. My computer just churns along for a while and the site times out. However, when I go look, my posts made it through. This has caused me to post multiple times (sorry.)

Anyway,I am going to start checking on the actual board before I get too engrossed in the posts.

Duncan

[hombre]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

What's going on with Factnet's emailing of posts? I just got a HUGE block of posts and about halfway through them, I noticed that they were from February? Have the rest of you had similar experiences?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Yeah, I just got 98 today from February....and about as many friday, saturday and sunday...it's a little irritating.

[duncan]

Thanks, Hombre!

I think there is probably a demonic spirit that prevented these posts from coming through at the appropriate time. It needs to be bound and cast out! (Just thought I would throw in a little "old-school" FA for old-times sake.)

Duncan

[johiyom]

In the book by Hobart Freeman, An Introduction To Old Testament Prophets, he says that a prophet is primarily a preacher and teacher of righteousness. In saying this and in examining Hobart's extreme and misguided teachings, yes, he qualifies as a false prophet. Not because of "predicting" anything. The gift of prophecy in the New Testament is for edification, exhortation and comfort, not so much for predicting the future as most people think.
Freda Lindsay once wrote to me that some men go too far in areas of teaching. I agreed with her.