Hobart Quotes and Misquotes

[johiyom]

Hobart Freeman Misquotes I Thess. 5:23 in the message entitled Our One Remedy For Healing.
He leaves off a very important word in the passage that puts it into context.
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. KJV

May the God of peace make you holy through and through. May you be kept in soul and mind and body in spotless integrity until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Philips

May God Himself, who gives you peace, consecrate your whole being. May you be safely kept, spirit, soul, and body, so as to be blameless when our Lord Jesus Christ comes back. Williams

I looked up the the word blameless in Strong's Concordance. "amemptos"- faultlessly, blameless, unblamably, irreproachable.
Hobart tried to make the passage mean that God wants our bodies to be preserved whole until the coming of Jesus, in a physical, healing sense;not to be missing anything due to a surgery that has cut out or cut off some diseased part of the body. But if any Christian dies before Jesus returns his body will not be wholly preserved in a physical sense, but rot and decay, and return to the dust from whence it came. That's why the Gospel is a Gospel of the resurrection of our bodies. The context of this passage is moral, not a thing to do with physical healing or someone missing a body part for whatever reason. We are to be sanctified wholly in spirit, soul and body.
God would have us blameless of any sin of the spirit, soul or body. It goes well with Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

[johiyom]

Hobart makes a "negative confession" in his teaching Our One Remedy For Healing.
"...Oh, I know what I'm talkin' about.I don't come here and tell you about my physical trials. I'll just tell you one to make my point. I've got an ulcer right now on my ankle that's been there for two months. And it hurts. And it doesn't look a bit better. But praise God, it was healed at Calvary! And I practice what I preach. If God'll heal your ulcer, He'll heal mine. Hallelujia! And I don't go by what I see or what I feel. I practice what I preach. And there are other things we could mention that's nobody's business. You have to walk it out. So I know what it is to go through a trial. Well this is one time, remember in Florida you had an ulcer in the same place and it never did heal? Well, it finally did by certain treatment but even the doctors- nothin' they could do. They said there's nothing there. It just takes a creative miracle to put flesh back where there isn't any. You know what an ulcer is? An ulcer, it's gone, the flesh is missing. You can feel sorry for people with stomach ulcers-there's nothing there. I mean it's just eating a hole in their stomach. But praise God, if a medical treatment which finally healed it, and I treated it myself by the way, and got healed. That's many years ago before I was even saved. If medicine could do it then He Who created the ankle can do a much better job and will......"

This ulcer, which he didn't even attempt to treat himself as he once did in the past, eventually led to his death.

[duncan]

I was listening to the 5th sermon in the Romans series where HEF was going over the last several verses of Romans 1.

I know this was mentioned a couple of months ago, but I just heard it with my own ears. HEF used this section to equate oral s*x to sodomy and said that God would give married people who partake in such over to a reprobate mind.

I have read over Romans 1: 26 - 28 numerous times, and it is very clear that Paul is dealing with men on men and women on women. There is no way that HEF can reach his conclusion based upon this scripture.

Evidentally, HEF and Mrs. Freeman were part of the "missionary postition only" crowd, because he was putting his own feelings right up there with scripture.

Duncan

[odysseus]

Duncan,

What’s ‘oral sex’? Is that when you talk during the act of making love and say, “OH BABY OH BABY GIVE IT TO ME CONAN”?

Seriously though I remember those teachings as well. My recollection was that Bruce Kinsey was teaching the same things because our church started talking about it from listening to his tapes. Some couples were expecting children so the missionary position was rather uncomfortable at certain times during pregnancy. Spooning style and doggy style were ruled out as evil. ‘EVIL’ says the Church Lady! A lot of folks were getting ticked off because now FA and HEF were getting into their bedrooms. I never let them in mine, unless they wanted lessons… (no pictures please.) <Sarcasm off

There was this one guy I knew of who was really ticked off about this idiocy because it was taught to be wrong to let your Wife….we’ll how shall we say this delicately? You know to manually get you off with her hand. ( ____ Job)? I’m telling you he was livid. He left the church not too long afterward.

It all worked out. His wife divorced him due to carpal tunnel syndrome.

[duncan]

Your name is Conan?? I always wondered if that was you!

Seriously, this is a subject of which I'm sure we could fill up a message board. If we were talking about straight up sodomy (i.e. taking it up the rear), I could see the logical connection and I would tend to agree (as would definintely my wife!)

However, when you start branching out with extra-Biblical interpretations, it leads to a loss of credibility on the whole subject.

Just a few of my thoughts. I am sure I will come across many more statements as I go through the series on Romans.

Actually, I will make one more statement before I go. When I started listening to this series, I was expecting it to be a Biblical exposition of the book of Romans. However, it has taken him 5 sermons to get out of the first chapter, because he has spent most of the time "chasing rabbits". It has been difficult to follow along, because I never know which verse he is actually on. It seems to be a series of sermons with a little Romans thrown in.

Just my observations.

Have a great day!

Duncan

[duncan]

Johiyom,
I just wanted to issue a point of clarification to your second post about something HEF said. I spoke with my mother about the sermon you referenced "Our One Remedy for Healing." She went back in her notes and found that the sermon was preached on 8/31/80. HEF didn't die until the end of 1984 from a foot ulcer that came about from new shoes several months before.

As such, he did not die from the untreated ulcer mentioned in this sermon.

I just like to make sure that all the facts are correct, as much as possible.

Duncan

[healed]

Well the more I read from the lattest post from over at overcomers and the tomax site, what I suspected was always true actually was. Ministers who we had the privilage of sitting in living rooms at 10 years old for hours on end, listening to their crap were actually enjoying TV and baseball games in private. I always suspected this, after all they were just people. Why did some of us kids have to grow up like we did, such a waste, because these same die harders are out there doing as they please. I think of the Freeman experience as one big fog, like being lost in some murky hell, the very basic foundations that a soul is built upon were stripped away and was replaced by depression and misery. Its been years since all of this has past, and its taken every one of them to get right. How could anyone endorse this man?

[johiyom]

Thanks, duncan, for clarifying the facts on the foot ulcer issue. I wasn't exactly sure when he had preached the message Our One Remedy For Healing. I just have it on tape, along with boxes and boxes of other tapes. I will continue to glean "quotes and misquotes" as I have time to delve into it.

[johiyom]

healed,
That is why I continue to emphasize Pulpit Pressure as THE SOURCE for Peer Pressure and will not justify the leadership as being WITHOUT any responsibility for the actions of people which led to their deaths. And why I will continue to expose the hypocrisy, the double standards, the "do as I say, not as I do" " ENDTIME MESSAGE OF FEAR" that was ministered.
P.S. People have to stop lying to THEMSELVES and realize that it WAS NOT a "pure Word".

(Message edited by JOhiyoM on October 21, 2007)

[johiyom]

I wanted to add another comment. If they could spend so much time on, and emphasize their "no compromise" message, then certainly they could have, Hobart included, spent time on, emphasized and clarified issues so as not to lead people to the logical conclusions which led to all sorts of tragedies. It wasn't extrapolation. It was people sincerely trying to live what they obviously taught them. You have a solemn responsibility as a minister of God to carefully choose your words and to clean up the messes you cause by not balancing points you've made. If you don't want people to become legalistic about things then don't teach them legalistically and make sure they understand comments as principles and only principles-nothing more. Give them the tools to make choices for themselves in their own personal walk and relationship with the Lord without any guilt, pressure, or condemnation.
When you start judging people the same measure will be exacted right back at you.