Help FactNet categorise the EveryNation threads [Archive]

philiprosenthal

06-22-2006, 07:46 AM

While we are most appreciative to the FactNet administrators for helping to categorise the EveryNation threads to make the information easier to find, a lot of threads are still in the wrong category - and often new threads are created in the wrong place.

Please help the FactNet administrators by posting your suggestions for moving EveryNation threads into the correct categories. Try to include the link to the actual thread you suggest should be moved.

You need to log into this section with your user name before you can post.

http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi

The thread on this section to post under is 'Can users help tidy up threads'

40days40years

06-22-2006, 08:12 AM

Philip you are awesome, you are trying to administer to the fact-net Gods. Factnet administrators never mind this pup he knows not what he does. LOL- Post more Philip.

philiprosenthal

06-22-2006, 09:36 AM

40 days
I am asking others to help with the administration of the threads - not to do it all myself.
If you have concerns you want to discuss with me, or need convincing that I know what I am doing, please phone/Skype me to chat at:
Tel/fax: +27 (0)21 6854500
Mobile: +27 (0)82 6768966
Email: philip@rosenthal.net
Skype: PhilipRosenthal

God bless
Philip

jayhernandez

06-22-2006, 10:08 AM

Do it in the open my friend. Lets discuss here in the open. I'd like to know if you know what you're doing. I've heard you speak of things Spiritual but all this thread monitoring and thread starting is a bit to much.

Don't worry if you feel there are pearls you might throw to the swine because you can translate a bit to get the point across regarding any "concerns" we all have. Those you seem to continue to appear as though you so calmly set yourself aside on. Disregarding the obviouse of what you see factnet provides for other is not practical.

You know I'm a bit cautious about you. I know you've picked up on it by now. Frankly I don't like the way you operate here. One moment you sound this way and the other moment different. You seem undecided and unfounded a bit and to cap on these thread and go secret seems to play into a controlling issue.

I still consider myself very new here and maybe I haven't quite heard you out on everything but everyone else I've "heard out" has been here in public. I don't agree with everyone but on EN- we are here.

Giving emails are fine and I have in the past for various reasons but they've never been to give someone my resume. So give your testimony here again or show me where its at here on these posts. I'd love to see it. To see how God has brought someone out of egypt but how God is working in someones life is truely the testimony.

Hey bud I'm not going to bother you any more about what I think I see- and I hope I'm wrong- but to start a new thread when there are so many is not the example of the gift of administration.
Everytime you start one-in my opinion- it's like taking on EN principle and saying how can it be refined. It needs up rooted and besided some people aren't asking this refining question, Some are seeking answers to the ABUSE. ABUSE. ABUSE.

jAY THE PEACEMAKER

matt_hatter

06-22-2006, 10:32 AM

Phil, please explain to me your obsession with this thread thing. I find it very easy to navigate here, I just look for the latest posts and click! Folks in here have been controlled enough, let it be. I do agree with Jay, though, you add to the confusion by creating new threads and when someone makes a comment off topic, they get the long arm of the law and don't come back. Then we have another thread that nobody gets on. Look at the top threads. They are full of random thoughts, feelings, gripes and hurrahs, saturated with the spectrum of emotion from sadness to humor. That is what I call good organization!!! Comments please....

Matt

philiprosenthal

06-22-2006, 10:43 AM

Matt

The random subject approach is fine for a small message board. But for one that gets over 12000 posts we need structure otherwise new people who don't have hundreds of hours of free time are not going to read everything. Thus it needs to be well categorised by subject. We can still keep some general conversation threads - but now this board has outgrown the small board format. Its like when a small church grows into a mega church, they have to introduce structure else you have chaos.

Jay

I am not undecided, but at the same time I am trying to speak balanced truth - not just to slam EveryNation or defend EveryNation. I also think we must bear in mind the humanity of our opponents and treat them in a Christlike manner.

I am reluctant to post a list of leadership achievements on FactNet as I am not into boasting. For your purposes, understand I have a lot of experience in mobilising change. If you want more information about me, contact me directly.

miltietoast

06-22-2006, 10:48 AM

I agree with pacemaker keep up the pace
For me ,certified Attention Deficit Disorder and occaisionally cixelsyD, these (what was I talking about?)threads look normal to me.
Mattie- from volume II of "Milties Christian Dirty Joke Book"-- What did the dyslexic atheist say?

"There is no dog"
I wander more seriously, God is so big ,the atheist is like the flea on a dog that says,"there is no dog because I can not see a dog"

sameo

06-22-2006, 11:26 AM

LOL...you're a funny guy, Miltie!! "I agree with pacemaker."

Well, Phil I'm with Jay here...I tried to have an open mind towards your point up until you said "I'm trying to speak balanced truth-not just to slam Every nation or defend EN." And "Bear in mind the humanity of our opponents?" Hmm....

As for the members still there who are caught in the deception of the leaders, I might feel some compassion....but for the cold hearted leaders who have caused nothing but pain, and destruction of lives I do not feel the need to speak "balanced!" This is a destructive cult in my opinion....lives, marriages, college hopes, family relationships, friendships, lives ending in suicide...lives turned away from following Christ.... talk about humanity....and souls...there are posts here every day from the damage done by these EN leaders. THEY ARE NOT "balanced!!" There is nothing "balanced" about this group.(We should be warning people, not speaking "balance!") That's the problem. I'm not here to speak balanced about them. I'm hear to hopefully encourage those hurt by this group, to reacquaint w/ old friends who were hurt by them, and to continue my own healing process from having been hurt by them.

I do have compassion....I do love these people. They were MY friends. I do pray for my enemies...but I am with Jay in that --it's someone hard to trust what you mean.

OK--I think this is off topic. This may have to be re-threaded to the "Bunny trail..."

Phil...I don't mean to add to the problem, but that "speak balanced thing" got me all riled up.

"Pacemaker...?" I may need one here...SameO

speakword2004

06-22-2006, 12:40 PM

I for one do care about those people who are still in EN as well. Many of the general people in EN are looking for answers and specific ones at that. Let's help them find it.

For many people jumping into a conversation is difficult. Just as some of you question the motives of people like Philip, and jump to conclusions about him, other people who visit here may do the same about you. This may cloud their judgement in the same immediate way and then instead of being a tool towards freedom Factnet then becomes what?

I for one would like to make it easier for my brothers and sisters in EN to access information. Many, many of them do not have an inkling about Factnet or what goes on here. Some of us stumbled on this place by the Grace of God and others were invited here. I want to invite more people and include more people. Don't underestimate the fact that Factnet has had an incredible impact. I read daily testimonies here of that and also the waves it makes continue to rock the institutional boat of EN.

As someone who has been around here for more than two years, I struggle to find references within the many many wonderful posts made here. Some people have made excellent points here before and sometimes I wish I could find them as they say better what I am able to express.

People have also made specific references about things as well, which has been very helpful in my research and healing. Don't think that one or two people know everything and can explain everything either.

I think, in fairness, Philip is not asking for balance towards the cult leadership of EN, which many of us are too obsessed about anyway, but balance in our receptiveness and caring for average Joes in EN who are seeking the Truth and wanting answers that they can not find elsewhere. We need to make it easier for them to access this place and be inclusive. As people share their stories we learn more and relate more. Just my opinion. Don't think I am telling you what to do or being patronising. The leaders of EN are banned from reading here anyway so they don't care.

I for one, have never just come here just to chat or to share old war stories, even though I have done that ad infinitum and enjoyed it thoroughly. I have stuck around to make friends, learn from some very wise people and help others. I want the same for others.

I am sure Philip can best explain himself here in the open, but I would not forsake the oppurtunity to dialogue with and learn from anyone of you on a one-to-one basis. Who cares? I care.

philiprosenthal

06-22-2006, 01:06 PM

I think 'balance' includes what Speakword says above. It also includes focusing on seeking truth, rather than just throwing dirt at EN leaders to see what sticks.

Also bear in mind the psychology of the type of person who makes up an abusive leader. Usually abusive leaders are also being abused by the one above them so they form part of an abusive system in which everyone manipulates and hurts everyone else in a crazy quest for human glory. They may look like heartless big men, but they are hurting too. At the end of the day, when the whole system caves in on itself, what we are left with is just deeply hurting people. I don't condone what they do, but I do remember they are people too.

sameo

06-22-2006, 01:47 PM

When I said "leaders" I meant only the founders of these groups EN and Maranatha. NOT those "under" them.(including leaders under them). I too was in leadership in maranatha--so I hear what you're saying and I agree with you they are hurting too. I didn't make myself clear when I said I DO have compassion for the members. That includes those hurting leaders under the main guys.

My apologies to Phil if I'm being unfair. We are all at different places...we have all had the same experiences yet to differing degrees. I am still working on being able to passively talk about MAr/En without feeling the righteous anger at the abuse of these so called "men of God." So, I can't apologize for that yet. BUt I Am in agreement about those leaders who are just "obeying" the top honchos! My heart and prayers go out to them.

gotta run-SameO

dust

06-22-2006, 03:06 PM

My basic personality is one of organized, determined, entrepreneur, who likes STRUCTURE, and I like to direct, control, pursuade and convince. Was I perfect for EN or what?

HOWEVER, this board is one place I enjoy the free flow. Let's face it, WE ARE A RAG TAG GROUP, but, (as someone with that discerning gift), the Holy Spirit is working here. BELIEVE IT. Phillip, why are trying to take control? I would like to feel your "heart beat" a bit more. You raise suspicion with me. We have all come out of movement where the Holy Spirit was boxed up....and this board has brought many people FREEDOM.

I like the history, the research and the war stories. It's ALL important.....even the jokes. We need the jokes. I like it all mixed up and messy. The Holy Spirit has shown me the beauty of MESSY.

Someone said, the EN leaders are banned from reading here. They read here. And, you know what they get angry at us, just like I did, but they come back and they are getting FREE.

I said last week I had some ENCOURAGING news. And, I do. For a few weeks, (because of 84 and other stories) I realized I was getting angry and discouraged about all the EN people in bondage, and could I stand to hear one more scandal.

However, I had the most unusual opportunity again to talk with some pastors I hadn't seen in years, and they are deeply concerned and almost apologetic that they are still in EN. Their eyes are being opened. I then had some more opportunity to speak with EN leaders individually, (people I thought were in tremendous bondage) and they are getting FREE. Pastors are getting FREE. In fact, the word FREE and FREEDOM have replaced CHAMP.

Believe it, when I say, that it is happening, and this board is doing it's job to bring TRUTH in love, and FREEDOM in CHRIST.

I am thoroughly excited to be a part of this rag tag group of people. And, if it gets all "organized and controlled" then it'll be just like EN and then I'm out of here.

speakword2004

06-22-2006, 03:49 PM

I don't agree that Philip is controlling anybody here and if he tries I'll pick up the phone and tell him myself. And by leaders being banned I meant the top leaders. Many of the junior pastors and the pastors not absorbed in the cultic element of EN read here often. From the beginning I have known this to be a FREE place and agree with you Dust that it should remain so.
Same-o, thanks for the clarification - I understand.

dust

06-22-2006, 04:27 PM

I didn't say he was controlling any person..I'm referring to controlling the board. I'll be the first to say this type of personality makes a wonderful business leader/ceo, and often wants everyone else to follow suit. It's a positive trait, and one I like to work with. So, why does this push a button for me? Because EN wanted their leadership to be this....exclusively....the same, organized, controlled dominant type.
Other personality types were considered less desireable. What does that do to a system? It creates a collective personality of dominance. And, there are churches where the free-flowing is the ONLY type welcome, and it creates a system of chaos.

A healthy organization (church, system) enjoys and engages ALL personality types with no one type being THE type. EN became a very DRY place for the seasoned Christian who had the "facts" (although not correct) and was TOLD about the Holy Spirit, but the PROCESS of actually being able to EXPERIENCE the Holy Spirit was another matter and vetoed by man's controlling spirit.

Same thing with this board. If we were all "dominant" types who relied on just the facts or effective systems, etc. and not led by the Spirit a we would just turn into another EN system. So, what am I saying? I have hesitation with the request for what I see as a STRICT, ORGANIZED system to this board. I feel caution in my Spirit about such things and it smacks of that dominion/reform society thing which repulses me.

I support the activism of this board, but I reject organized activism. WHO will lead it and under WHO's AGENDA? it will be what EN does....the dominant personalities (with their own dominion theology) will come in and take over for their own agenda. Things such as passing flyers out at an EN church is NOT wise, and it will also INCREASE the loyalty inside EN.

We must completely trust God to release the voices of those He releases and in God's way, not man's way.

One POWERFUL atom bomb on this board is Tic's story. Just about everyone can relate; it's engaging and it's Holy Spirit led. Not only does it reveal truth, it brings personal conviction, even to us here....

speakword2004

06-22-2006, 05:48 PM

I thought you would bring up Tick, and I agree that the word of our testimony is a powerful thing. He has articulated his story with startling recollection and even though I don't completely agree with all his Theology, there has been much confirmation and helpful explanation. I can see how authentic his story is and I deeply respect his strategy.
But his is not the only powerful bomb here out of it all. I have realised that there are many others who have atom bombs/testimonies of their own which God is using in different ways and not just here either.

As to Philip's occassional slip into apparent bossiness: your insight as to his personality is perhaps good, but partially accurate and does not account for his motivations which I have taken the time to try and understand by engaging him personally. One day I will get to shake his hand and meet him as well as my new pals in the USA with all these different approaches.

If Philip wants to organise some kind of structure of volunteers, then I will not discount the idea that God is matching his work in Philip's life by using Philip's personality in the same way that Philip fulfills his professional life as a fulltime Christian activist. God works in this world on EN issues with people on multiple fronts.I have found myself finding Wisdom in some of what Bill Mack has to say! In what Ginger, JIA, Another Brick and Matt have added as well. TGIF!
As to being strict? That leads to rebellion. We both have seen that, I am sure.

dust

06-22-2006, 07:31 PM

Philip said:I think 'balance' includes what Speakword says above. It also includes focusing on seeking truth, rather than just throwing dirt at EN leaders to see what sticks.

I am sorry....but I'll be so bold as to say this. When I was in EN, I became LIKE EN (not to the biggest degree, but nonetheless) and when someone threw some dirt at me, I went to the Holy Spirit to see if there was truth in it. I was called "harsh" and "legalistic" and I had NEVER been called until I started trying to get run with the NEW organized cell format. That dirt did me good, because the Holy Spirit told me I was wrong, and I repented to those I as mentoring.

Speak, I didn't say TIc was the ONLY good thing here. I mentioned several others things such as research and history and war stories. I merely used his book as an example of how God can use one person to touch a lot of people without a great deal of organization. I am in agreement of the benefits of ALL, and I that was my point.

What I feel is missing here....again, is the power of the Holy Spirit. Perhaps a week after I repented I found factnet and quite by chance. But, I don't think it's chance, and I fully trust that when people are seeking truth they will find it.

jayhernandez

06-23-2006, 07:47 AM

Sorry all, I had somethings to do. I wish I hadn't left mid conversation.

Speak said: "I don't agree that Philip is controlling anybody here and if he tries I'll pick up the phone and tell him myself."

Jay: Oh that makes me feel better! (definition is that facetious X exageration= "not what I really meant to say or if I knew better.... would have said".)

Speak said: "As to Philip's occassional slip into apparent bossiness: your insight as to his personality is perhaps good, but partially accurate and does not account for his motivations which I have taken the time to try and understand by engaging him personally. One day I will get to shake his hand and meet him as well as my new pals in the USA with all these different approaches."

Jay: then I ask him to engage here! To engage doesn't mean he need give his garbage or EN garbage. The only thing most peope engage here with is familiarity. This is all I wish to know. If he is on the inside just pading his resume for the future organization of a reformation team then come here and read but to create balance is just as dust said ...I'm out of here. I'm sorry to say it but I'm glad now that I'm not the only one to see it.

(Message edited by Jayhernandez on June 23, 2006)

jayhernandez

06-23-2006, 07:49 AM

Phil said: It also includes focusing on seeking truth, rather than just throwing dirt at EN leaders to see what sticks.

Jay: Need I say more? "...rather than just....?"
I know what this is! This is exageration and what its really trying to imply is that we speak exagerations! And I don't like that. I'd rather you be honest if you think we speak exageration. I seen this before and now you've confirmed it and I highlight it. Not to put us at odds with each other but so that you would be aware of your speech. I'm sure your seeing his intentions are good and I believe we'll all shake hands on that side of Glory. But for now I think it's important we keep it free. Free means that I speak my concerns about the element and personality

Phil said: Also bear in mind the psychology of the type of person who makes up an abusive leader. Usually abusive leaders are also being abused by the one above them so they form part of an abusive system in which everyone manipulates and hurts everyone else in a crazy quest for human glory. They may look like heartless big men, but they are hurting too. At the end of the day, when the whole system caves in on itself, what we are left with is just deeply hurting people. I don't condone what they do, but I do remember they are people too.

Jay: This is no place to campain! Sure they are people but the balance to discussing doctrinal issues have nothing to do with human relativness to the human element. WE are subject to it by law until one day we have been filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in Spirit, and we can do this today. To exagerate us is to say we don't have the Holy spirit working through us and that this avenue or forum needs guidence. We have all had something to contribute.

Sameo, your first response to this was on target. I think you should have stuck to it. Not to say you doubted yourself and if you posted out of spirit and it can happen to any of us- but the part you brought up about people who are stil caught up... (you said:

"As for the members still there who are caught in the deception of the leaders, I might feel some compassion....but for the cold hearted leaders who have caused nothing but pain, and destruction of lives I do not feel the need to speak "balanced!" This is a destructive cult in my opinion....lives, marriages, college hopes, family relationships, friendships, lives ending in suicide...lives turned away from following Christ.... talk about humanity....and souls...there are posts here every day from the damage done by these EN leaders. THEY ARE NOT "balanced!!" There is nothing "balanced" about this group.(We should be warning people, not speaking "balance!") That's the problem. I'm not here to speak balanced about them. I'm hear to hopefully encourage those hurt by this group, to reacquaint w/ old friends who were hurt by them, and to continue my own healing process from having been hurt by them."

jayhernandez

06-23-2006, 07:50 AM

I feel that those who are still caught up dont need to come here and be told subliminally that we are exagerting the facts. f the facts are wrong then it needs correcting- this is for sure.

I don't like seeing this odd and this is not my attention but as in Spritual relationships, the kind we find ourselves in here at factnet there is still the possiblity of the rebuked and corrected not taking things the right way and it can cause division, even here. I don't want to see this. I just want him not to speak as if we have gone astray with topic and exageration. Let it be free and to say it's not, is not free. We've done a pretty fine job of seeing people through here and following up on concerns of all sorts. I have learned so much here and I thank God for each one of you--including JBkrems (smile). When I first came here I thought the topics where a bit too indepth and tried to refocus it to doctrinal issues- I leaned something. People know each othere here! Love you guys. And Phil and Speak-exageration has just been highlighted.

Let us do all things in Spirit.

Jay the peacemaker

40days40years

06-23-2006, 11:19 AM

Well I have been thinking about this thread and like SpeakW said earlier on another thread the last reorganization of threads and topics by the factnet Gods was a little ham fisted or whatever that expression is. Kind of reminds you of when your Dad decides to tidy your stuff up with some boxes. To be fair this latest reorganization thing by factnet administrators was bound to happen and the fact is that these guys are dealing with dozens of differant groups so they did the best they could and they really don't have time to deal with us or anyone else to the degree you want Philip because they are very busy and overworked. That is one reason why I think your mission may be futile philip because on the main factnet section people are saying I did not get a response from factnet, it appears they don't have time to go along with your program.

Also new people show up and it takes a while to post correctly, mistakes happen posts are started in the wrong places or to many posts on the same topic are started by newcomers. If you correct these guys and tell them to stay on topic they may be scared off or they end up not posting stuff they should post due to intimidation and fear of going off topic. I would like to think that this is a place that will always be chaotic and that after it gets a little to messed up and unwieldy the factnet gods will swoop in and try to organize the stuff again the same way they did last time. It will never be perfect. In fact the most valuable information seems to come to light by people having casual conversations, joking and going off topic. This place will never be like a technical instruction manual.

jayhernandez

06-23-2006, 12:43 PM

I think I'm saying more then what seems to be understood from what I've written. Its not so much that phil or factnet administration saw a need to organize. They did and evern though I didn't mind it the way it was I didn't know the difference before it happened. However I did notice when a new thread was created- you can't but too- and when the new thread spoke of reform instead of rebuttle or as a rebutterhttp://dictionary.reference.com/search?q= rebutter, which shows a position closely associated with one who might
plead according to the law, as in legal disputes, but also spiritually in spiritual matter we appeal to them with Gods word. Call it semantics but to generalize everyone here as someone who is JUST throwing dirt is not just a matter of linguistics at work.

It's not so much as the order of the threads but how the threads develope. When a new person comes -they often need to go start at the top to know what is happening. We usually only need to go to where we last posted because we rememeber why we posted what we did. What is the first impression these new readers get? after everything we've written a slate of "how do we keep a nice outfit running" is proposed is if there isn't really anything that bad going on at EN and doing this has to be addressed.

40, what you said about new people is so true!
Thanks for the cool water! I love to joke but haven't found that yet here. I'm not in my element-so to speak-because I don't know the inside jokes and I'm fine with that. I do enjoy reading your guys' humor. I get to joke with my boys (homies) and my sis and her daughters- it all good. However this post is nothing more then an observation that could still be premature. I have the feeling though that Christianity is being seen from a business postion though. Behavior and Leadership are big to business people who look to fix structure.

Jay the peacamaker

Hey I gotta run. I didn't get to spell check or edit it for clarity. I'll come back if I needed too. Laters. God speed.

coppertree

06-23-2006, 11:39 PM

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi All catching, from math project.
At first blush I would say that I agree with Jay and dust, I believe, or was it forward, and 40 also. We have been set free form the LAW ! We are alive in the Spirit. But not the law that brings death, and not His light. We need to function in freedom, a new thought to us, but most neccesary and needed. Some may like to read the old threads, there are many thing there. I believe,that He will guide people to what, thy need. This is the Good News, A new and living way, His Life. It is good for people to haul their own water, and cut their own wood, so to speak. It's that is what the Berans did and were blessed. Many forms , same function.}

dust

06-24-2006, 03:35 AM

Coppertree,
This is how I see it too. Once you have tasted the freedom, everything else is bitter. And, I have first hand experience of God guiding his people OUT of EN, as I have mentioned. I still have personal connections close to leaders and the freedom is not to find yet another way to "organize" or "restructure" EN. The people ARE getting free and taking their passions/giftings elsewhere. I think you will see more of this to come. And, part of that freedom is for them to find their OWN WAY FOR A CHANGE. They may be sheep, but with the Holy Spirit, they will have a map and a guide to the true treasure.

Philip, you have started over 20 SEPARATE THREADS on this board, mostly with topics that could be on ONE THREAD, and, thus, burdens the board and could be more neatly under one thread for REFORM....or PHILIP ROSENTHAL'S QUEST FOR REFORM. But sometimes you hijack the board with so many threads at once. You know how to posture a presence.

I missed something somewhere and I would like to hear your personal story and when you got saved and what your core beliefs are.

I feel justified in asking such because you have put a call out for organized activism and have asked for people to help you. Having had the experiences I've had at EN, I would want to know where you stand APART from EN. I believe this is fair.

Dust

matt_hatter

06-24-2006, 03:53 AM

copper:It is good for people to haul their own water, and cut their own wood

dust: And, part of that freedom is for them to find their OWN WAY FOR A CHANGE.

Both excellent points. With the Lord's leading, I quickly manuevered around the board and found what I wanted. Eventually, I began to post. Although I can easily nagivigate my way around, I have asked myself what Phillip's obsession is with order, and then creating more confusion with the constant stream of new threads.

For example, why was it so important to start a new thread on titheing when, this subject has been beat to death by our little friend and we are about to have Groundhog Day played before us with 'my pastor's' cadillac, vanity tag, ad nasuem.

I, too, would be interested in a detailed testimony from Phillip. You can read all about Allie and me on 84's blog...

Matt

robert_unknown

06-24-2006, 07:44 AM

i think the emphasis on phils thread is not thithing, but the questin whether the big-earners robb from God or not.

dazzla

06-24-2006, 11:59 AM

phil .. how many posts relate to EN/MSI/Maranatha ? thousands, 10's / 100's of thousands ?
How does a newcomer ever know what is important and not ? some of the most useful info I've read was posted 1 to 2 years ago ...would a new poster find that ?

I've been visiting this site intermittently over the last 18months, came across it by chance, but am very happy I did as it helped me answer a lot of conerns that I didn't know I had and have subsequently moved away from EN. Gods was truly working for me then.
The need for organization of posts is self evident in this board itself, a board is set up for one reason and very quickly gets diveretd onto something else. For someone like me who came to Christ in last 3 years through Every Nation and has no historic pains to heal just wanting to know facts and get advice this site is crucial.... but unwieldy and sometimes very difficult to seperate emotion to fact.

Your seeking suggestions and frankly I am amazed to to see such posts follwing it. If people just focus on what the point is and that is for people with the wide range of motives for visiting to be able to fulfill that. How that can be interpreted as controlling is something I just don't get ... anyhow my suggestion is to somehow try and seperate boards into groups such as :
- Facts / pre EN& MSI History / Timelines/
- Latest Facts
- Testimonies
- Primary EN Characters (which I see has been attempted)
- Theological Debate
- Questions/ Answers/Opinions sought
- General chit chat

Something along these lines will help someone like me who took nearly a month to find the time to read all the posts and then several months to try and make sense of it all.
I don't see this as controlling in anyway, it would just make it easier for new comers, and old timers to communicate and seek what they need and still allows the fluidity of discussision needed to get some of the real information. Sure there'll be overlap but than can be managed.
Just my humble opinion and maybe it wouldn't work anyway.
Gob Bless you all.

another_brick_in_the_wall

06-24-2006, 12:04 PM

I agree. I couldn't believe that there was a new thread started about organizing threads.

lc_20

06-24-2006, 12:58 PM

Dazzla,
I am impressed - you came to Christ in the last three years and have already discerned the issues with EN and gotten out. It took me much longer than that. Hopefully, your relationship with Christ, health and finances are still in tact. If you need help with something and can't find the answers, just post. Many of us who were posting 2 years ago still check in every once in a while. The conversations have diversified quite a bit since the start. It seems we have many more maranatha people joining the conversation. So, sometimes it seems current issues are getting burried in old issues. But, really, even though they may be talking about other leaders in another time, the abuses and teachings are the same. Hope to catch you on other threads.

dazzla

06-24-2006, 04:13 PM

LC... when I first came to Factnet I posted asking a few questions and was ..mmm politely told this was not the place to seek spiritual milk. actually that was true at the time but I have seen an evolution. My username then was "dazed and confused" as thats how I felt after spending nearly 18hours reading the posts.
I remember many of your posts and the pain you were going through and hope peace is finding you.

philip.. I hope my earlier post doesn't get taken out of context, I've just re-read it and I omitted to emphasise that this site is tremendous and we owe a lot to people who manage this on our behalf, praise god this site is still going. I do agree with you that a slight adaptation to the grouping of posts may make it easier for those who are more entrenched in the EN mindset. Many many people I still know from EN check into this site regularly and are not phased by what they read. This site requires the gift of "attention span" and openess.
Anyways I know the subject is not the most important thing in the world..unlike the World Cup. Ta'ra for now

j2theperson

06-24-2006, 07:58 PM

***Something along these lines will help someone like me who took nearly a month to find the time to read all the posts and then several months to try and make sense of it all.
I don't see this as controlling in anyway, it would just make it easier for new comers, and old timers to communicate and seek what they need and still allows the fluidity of discussision needed to get some of the real information.***

I agree that the board is probably much easier for newcomers to navigate now, and that's a great thing. These changes, however, were brought about not because of anything Phil did or said but because the FACTnet administrators saw a need for some organization and implemented these changes.

What I find frustrating about Phil's obsession with organization is that he has, in my opinion, unrealistic expectations and is also never satisfied. Before the recent cleanup he wanted to organize the board by pressuring the posters to rigidly adhere to the thread topics, and never go off on a tangent even if that tangent flowed naturally from the course the conversation took. Not only was his idea infeasible (because the posters here are human and friends and thus guaranteed to go off topic when conversing with each other) it also resulted in a great deal of added disorganization due to the proliferation of threads.

Now, FACTnet has stepped in and organized this board in a straightforward and easily followed manner, but Phil is *still* not satisfied and wants us to organize the reorganization.

Organization is his pet peeve and not that of a majority of the other posters here. If he's so keen on it then he should use his *own* time and his *own* effort and pester the FACTnet admins *himself* to impliment the changes he wants. He doesn't have to bring us into it.

Finally, I find it ironic that he started this particular thread where he did; I would have placed it in the "General Chat" folder. I guess that shows that people can disagree about what constitutes organization.

matt_hatter

06-24-2006, 08:54 PM

Dazzla said: "I posted asking a few questions and was ..mmm politely told this was not the place to seek spiritual milk."

Dazzla, welcome back to the board. I'm afraid all I have to offer is skim milk, as the steak that I thought I was chewing on for years was actually the stuff that an old swayback horse sacrifices for the glue pot. Skim milk is a lot better for you too. Take a drink:

But I am afraid, lest as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds should be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. 2 Cor 11:3

That's some pasturized refreshment, don't you think?

Matt

sameo

06-26-2006, 02:02 AM

Hey all, just wanted to get back with Jay! Sorry it's taken awhile to reply Jay. I wanted to make clear that I don't think I "backed down" at all.(at least didn't mean to sound like I did) When I apologized to Phil...I also said "I am still working on being able to passively talk about MAr/En without feeling the righteous anger at the abuse of these so called "men of God." So, I can't apologize for that yet." I still stand behind what I said above. I decided for the sake of some of those "pastors" or leaders(under the main honcho's) who may feel caught, or trapped as I did for a long time...to show alittle mercy towards them....but I still believe that Marantha/EN is unbalanced, and ruining lives! No doubt there.

Thanks for acknowledging my post!

Welcome Dazzla! :-)

Dust, thanks as always for your input and for responding.

I've enjoyed reading everyone's post on here. Insightful stuff! SameO

lc_20

06-26-2006, 02:11 AM

Dazzla,
OK - I remember you. So sorry you felt brushed off. There are definitely different people here for different reasons. But, there should always be room for the wounded or else we are as bad as those we criticize. Besides, who here has not been wounded by EN. I have had that milk scripture used on me before when I wasn't preforming as expected in msi/en. So, that definitely hits a nerve. msi/en uses it when they want you to know they think you are backslidden. Anybody using that scripture on anyone here needs to go back to milk (basic message of Jesus) themselves or rejoin msi/en.

sameo

06-27-2006, 01:18 PM

Wow, J2....well Phil would be banging his head against the wall with my "out of order" posting. I do apologize for getting out of order here...if it bother's anyone. I was unable to get online to respond to Jay and yet wanted to make sure I did. I apologize to Dazzla for my insensitivity to you.(posting out of order) I'm sorry you had the bad experience. And I agree w/ Ic..."there should always be room for the wounded or else we are as bad as those we criticize." Good point. Dazzla, I've been snubbed before posting and it hurts.(it sounds like you ran into some arrogant, self righteous "christian") That's just wrong. Hope you find acceptance here now. I for one, along w/ Ic and the other's here-are glad you came back!

SameO

matt_hatter

06-27-2006, 01:29 PM

Now, Dazzla, if you really want a laurel and hearty handshake, hop on over to the thunder bunny thread. We'll break you in but good. Welcome back!

matt_hatter

06-27-2006, 01:30 PM

Oh, hi SameO, long time no hear.

Matt

matt_hatter

06-27-2006, 01:33 PM

Oh, hi SameO, long time no hear.

Matt

sameo

06-27-2006, 01:45 PM

LOL...Hello Matt the mad hatter! that was so glum of you. "OH, hi sameO, long time no hear..." hehe What was that? j/k

I wouldn't dare post in the thunder bunny place...you guys are way over my head. I did check out j2's website.....great artist!!! I'm amazed. Love that "quirky" sense of humor of yours, j2.

SameO

OH, man, now look what you made me do, Matt. I'm waaay off subject. Geez.

matt_hatter

06-27-2006, 02:03 PM

That's why you need to join the sons and daughters of thunder. There is no 'way off' subject.
Matt

sameo

06-27-2006, 02:05 PM

For the record, I was referring to Phil B.(about the "head banging") not you, Philiprosenthal.(tho' at the rate I'm going everyone will be head banging) Sorry, guys!

jayhernandez

06-28-2006, 06:58 AM

Dazzla and Sameo,

Your right SAMEO these guys are way over my head as well. I enjoy going there to read though. I sometimes give up. Anyway its good to meet you DAZZLA-I'm sorry this happened. How long ago was this (I'd just like to get a clue to how things have changed)? You know the Word doesn't say we shouldn't desire the sincere milk!?! Isn't that cool? I hope I'll always love hearing a Sunday Morning Christmas Day message.

SAMEO- Good to see you. Thanks for your responses. Don't worry about me though-I don't feel forgotten. =) I heard once that the scripture taqt speaks of luke warm water and say that it's better to be hot or cold then luke warm....that it's refering to a hot spring (always nice on a cold day) and a cold spring (always nice on a hot day)-I tend to see this like people who see that being on fire means to be doing goods work. I just think it means that doing Gods work needs to be done and you are either hot or cold but luke warm is being tossed or best, if you would, undecided. Who likes taking a shower in luke warm water. Anyway before I over analyze it which I've probably already done- the first time I saw you post and saw your energy from the get- I thought of this scripture. Good to have you along side.

BTW what is this thread about? Opps. I don't see the trail- someone turned out the light- no oil left to buy-I smell gun smoke....

sameo

06-28-2006, 08:04 PM

Aw....Jay!! Thanks for your kind encouragement. I appreciate that-and I liked your analogy of the hot and cold water, alot. Thank you! (not over anyalzed, BTW)

I am always surprised when anyone replies to my posts-and delighted that someone can be "kind" in doing it. LOL But, I know some won't always agree....and that's ok too.

Anyway, I like the reminder to Dazzla and all of us, that "it's OK to desire the sincere milk." I love that-and never thought of that-in the way I see it now. That it's not always so important to talk about the heavy duty deep "meat" -SIMPLE is a good thing....we forget sometimes. IT's like getting all caught up in "work, work, work..." and not making time to just "smell the roses..."(like doing so is being lazy, or wasting time)NOT!!! YOU know, Jesus was simple an awful lot! How do I know? because I (a somewhat simple mind) could understand Him. LOL He's not out to prove how smart HE is...though I am NOT knocking "smarts." **There is a balance, just like "hot and cold"....Jesus could appeal to the little children, yet hold HIS own w/ the scribes and Pharisees. I like that. OK---this is where I embarrass myself. hah! I start blabbing....and BOY do I have a feeling I'm off the beaten path too. hehe

Ah, man, we could be in trouble, Jay! I think this thread is about "Staying on topic!" And that WAS the topic...to stay ON topic. I'm seriously not trying to be a smartypants! I'll try to be good!

Anyway, thanks Jay!!! :-)

SameO

sameo

06-28-2006, 08:25 PM

OK--my infamous "after-thought."(for Matt) I think it's safe to say Jesus could MORE than hold HIS own w/ the Scribes and Pharisees.(I feel better clarifying that)lol

I had another thought too-in clarifying the above, AND that is...as a parent I learned some of the toughest questions to answer are the SIMPLE ones coming from children.

OK, think I'm finished now. Where's the trail? I can't see a thing, Jay!

SameO

jesusisawesome

06-28-2006, 08:27 PM

Hi Sameo, I may not always respond, but I always appreciate your posts and always appreciate your heart behind them. There's so much posting going on, it's hard to always respond to everyone . . . that could be a full time job in and of itself! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

There are many posts that I read here by different people that really mean a lot. A fascinating smorgasbord of different opinions and varying personalities . . . which shows God's love of creativity. No two snowflakes exactly alike. The same with people. I love the different perspectives, which is like iron sharpening iron and really causes you to think about why you believe a certain way.

sameo

06-28-2006, 08:39 PM

JIA:"There's so much posting going on, it's hard to always respond to everyone . . . that could be a full time job in and of itself!"

I hear ya! NO problem, I totally understand that. Gosh, I hope you guys don't think i'm hinting or whining about no responses.(yikes) lol I sure did NOT mean for it to come across that way. I was just replying to Dazzla....meaning I understand the response she/he? got. IT can give you "cold feet" when it comes to posting, to have someone say something hurtful...but in no way was I implying it necessary for everyone to respond.

Anyway, you of all people, JIA--are the least likely to intentionally "snub" anyone! And it's your sensitivity to other's that caused you to respond now. ;-)

It's all good!!! thank you!(I liked your snowflake analogy, btw)

SameO