EN why do you need losers like us

[40days40years]

Your the top dogs in the universe food chain according to your theology. You come here to read rantings from those deemed mentally ill, bitter, disgruntled, losers, musings from 50 year olds who have failing hearts and pancreases or to much of a hankering for adult beverages. Most of the stars here were never destined for leadership. This is like Hollywood the same stuff told to EN quietly was rebuked but the same oatmeal served over the net is a gourmet treat. I love you guys it may not seem like that at times by reading my posts but you were suppose to get this puppy right and you did not.

God Bless X 10,000

[jbkrems]

40:

You should not identify yourself as a loser --- it is a bad confession (and I am not joking, seriously).

[mcmstaff78]

Krems: You should not identify yourself as a loser --- it is a bad confession (and I am not joking, seriously).

Me: Groannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!

[j2theperson]

It's called, irony (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony), JB.

[matt_hatter]

40: thank you, I think...hehe

Matt "loser pastor and proud of it" Hatter

[mcmstaff78]

J2: It's called, irony, JB.

Man, don't you know you can't be ironic, sarcastic, satirical, allegorical, or anything like that? You're words, man, your words - they speak things into existence.

How can if we can speak evil on ourselves by accident, we can't ever get "blessings" on purpose?

Okay, somebody stop me before I hurt myself!!

[maranatha1984]

I am a worm the worst of all sinners- worse than Paul or David- how is that confession JBK

[miltietoast]

How can if we can speak evil on ourselves by accident, we can't ever get "blessings" on purpose?
mcm we have been around this wabbit hole forever.We locked him in his own thread for awhile.I pointed out exact same thing that if our words were that powerful we would all be dead by now. I think he is deaf and dumb to common sense.Sincere though.

[40days40years]

That is a good one 84.

krems I did say: those deemed but I understand what your saying so thanks.

This ministry MCM/EN does put people into categories like winners and losers though. There is a lot of irony here that a lot of posters here who would have never been listened to inside of EN. It's ironic the words by Joe Smith about What makes Maranatha powerful many years later really is the best explanation for what makes EN weak. You know if this group had been a lot more mellow we most likely would not be hear typing about it. You can go to message boards about entire denominations that have far less critics then those that have been associated with this group.

[jbkrems]

84:

Please don't call yourself a "worm," that's a bad confession. Big time.

40:

Really? I never knew that. The kind of teaching I listen to attempts to make EVERYONE a winner, and not segregate like that. Classic WOF thinking and teaching. And its a great confession.

[ulyankee]

This might be a good place to repost this... this is a word I believe I received from the Holy Spirit back in May 2004.

You are not alone in this spiritual battle, for you have Me the Lord of All. I have called others into battle with you as well. It is not the large army, the army they are raising up, the well-funded, well-equipped army, for that is an army that has not Me as the Head. No, I am raising up a small, rag tag, weak army, for it is with you I will demonstrate My power, just like I did with the Israelites. I have raised you up in this army, says the Lord.

I have heard your cries, says the Lord.

[matt_hatter]

Miltie: How can if we can speak evil on ourselves by accident, we can't ever get "blessings" on purpose?


Miltie you can be deep. Mostly deep in debt. Remember the motto for Michigan in the great recession of 1982, "Last one out of Michigan, please turn out the Lights"

Matt

[ulyankee]

I post this also in light of the reports I've been told from several quarters (including the US, and the conference, but not exclusively) that EN leaders have identified that some of the more active posters here could be personally discredited.

The Truth in Christ cannot be discredited. Perhaps I or others can be personally, but it's not about what our reputation or credentials are... but about the message. Test the message, for ALL of us are weak and poor vessels in comparison to God's glory, power and strength. If what we say has no merit, or are just isolated incidents, then it should have little to no impact.

I of myself am NOTHING.

blessings,
ulyankee

[40days40years]

Amen Ulyankee. I realize our problems are small compared to the horrors you see in the news but still this is important, we must keep it in perspective I realize that but still this "thing" must be confronted.

Krems this group would have a WOF preaching style and say that were all winners to our faces but behind the scenes? read the posts of those overhearing the leaders. To be fair the Leo, Bob, and Nick conference was lets just say concentrated badness. I remember a few of the winner kids that I liked by the way mocking and mimicking the way some of the quirky non sharps talked and acted but people would stand up and say hey that is not right guys. Tiks example was extreme but true, the sad thing is it came from the very top.

[matt_hatter]

Uly, if, for chance I would fall in this category, it is hard to be personally dicredited when I am a man of no reputation. Thank you for standing strong.

Matt

[john_r_jones]

Ul,
there is a history of folks that have spoken to these fellows and they sought to discredit them and plow ahead. Then the debate society tactics kick in and it's all about getting their way.
John

[40days40years]

Ulyankee you said: that EN leaders have identified that some of the more active posters here could be personally discredited.

Nobody here claims to be perfect and many of the more active posters have pulled their punches. I wish Bill Mack was here he gave me a link many months a go about abusive groups making and effort to deal with trouble maker dissenters in the early stages of their disagreement/"rebellion". A sort of nipping it in the bud sort of thing. If they don't head em off at the pass quickly it is to late. I will rummage around for that link.

[maranatha1984]

JBK:Please don't call yourself a "worm," that's a bad confession. Big time.

84:I am not calling myself a worm ...I am one- uh try this on "the worst of all sinners..."

JBK let me disabuse you of this confession stuff- take Miltie- if you met him you would thing Big Deal...and he is NOT a word of faither- not into confessions and that junk; ready...?

1. Owns TV and radio stations
2. Is a slum lord (it is true) rental units out of the ying yang
3. owns a company that produces log cabins

Mitlie- are you a worm?

See JBK I see people claim and naming- sending Rod Parsely their last $ 50...that they should be investing or paying off their VISA wwith...

So how do we explain Mitlie's success- well he could do a better job than I...but here I will try...

God has blessed Mitlie and has given Mitlie gifts ...

Me...I am a worm and a sinner who deserves none of the blessings God has given me...

[mdillon]

ulyankee="EN leaders have identified that some of the more active posters here could be personally discredited. "

To be discredited by EN would be an honor.

For a minute there I had a brief attack of StaffMeeting.


another worm on trial,
md

[matt_hatter]

To be discredited by EN would be an honor.

Pin that big old medal on my chest, I may not be worthy though, it's that crass Miltietoast they are after. They are most skeeeeered of FREEDOM, baby!

[robert_unknown]

"Uly, if, for chance I would fall in this category, it is hard to be personally dicredited when I am a man of no reputation. Thank you for standing strong."

yes - i lost my reputation already many years ago, because i didnt play the games they wanted me to play.
actually i lost my reputation when i started to follow Jesus! Jesus doesnt give much on "reputation", but he gives much on integrity and on truth!

so WHO cares?

i am rather discreditet than going to hell with a "good reputation"!

[freedom43]

Oh they'd have a field day "discrediting" me, if they even cared I existed. Who cares what they say? Their approval or disapproval has no power over me any more. "Spoiling the well" or the source of the information is an age old debate tactic. It is so ironic though that they would consider going that route. What ever happened to removing the log from your own eye? It seems to me that even threatening to discredit you (you being the pesky FactNet posters who seem to be a fly in their ointment) would give more credibility to you than they would want. They should ignore us and not "dignify" FactNet with a response. But they can't because what is being said out here in cyberspace rings true with their followers/would-be followers. Keep up the good work!!!

[jbkrems]

40: Interesting. So, the division was "behind the scenes," in private? That's wrong and sad.

84: No, you are not a worm. And calling yourself one is a bad confession, big time.

As for Miltie, success defined by the world's standards is not true success. We all know you can be very profitable without Christ (e.g. Donald Trump).

How do I explain that? Some people are blessed with natural talents to make lots of money, like Donald Trump. But then they end up being spiritually empty because the glory goes to themselves and not God. However, other people who are blessed because they walk in covenant are different. They are (or at least have the potential to be), truly successful and prosperous. We have several businessmen who own their own companies in my church, for example, and all of their businesses have exploded in recent years because they put their trust in God and give all the glory to Him. That's true prosperity.

You need to pray first if you are contemplating sending your last $50 to Pastor Rod. If you really need to pay off your credit card, that would probably take priority.

Again, please do not call yourself a worm and a sinner, 84, it breaks my heart more than you ever know to see you say things like that.

[miltietoast]

Whoa there 84!You old worm(when a worm takes a**** its called casting).So if you are the WORM! man I am your casting.To set the record straight, I am not financially successful,(like the worm 84)Money has never been an objective but I will try anything just to see if I can do it.I am willing to lay it all on the line because life is so much fun and I dig myself in so many holes that God has to rescue me.Bottom line is if he does'nt come through even with my stupid mistakes I will lose it all.Take it all you devil! It means nothing to me and I will start over.HaHaHa what incredible freedom. You are going to take my things from me.HaHaHa.I don't give a CAST

[matt_hatter]

Miltie...stop. hehe

[matt_hatter]

Miltie...stop. hehe

[mcmstaff78]

But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and despised by the people. (Psa 22:6)

1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1Jo 1:8)

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi All catching, I just now read this thread, see my post on strange as it was earlier today. my..
could this be the Holy Spirit

about the worm, my favorite scripture is..,
Isaiah 41:14
" Do not fear you worm Jacob, you men of Israel; I will help you", declares the Lord ." and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel."

--------- It gives great hope.
}

[jbkrems]

mcmstaff: You were a sinner before Christ saved you. But now you are a child of God and a saint, someone made holy through Christ's righteousness.

A child of God is NO worm. What Paul is saying to Timothy is that he is a "chief" among all Christians, those who were sinners, and now saved by grace and God's children.

Also, it is possible to not sin as a Christian. 1 John 5:4-5, "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that overcame the world, our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes Jesus is the Son of God." The world can be equated to mean sin, and therefore this describes the ideal Christian lifestyle, a lifestyle that avoids sin.

Also, even more on point, 1 John 5:18-19, "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. We know we are of God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." Christians indeed have the power and choice to NOT sin. We can come to the place where we walk in the Spirit to the extent we do not sin, and have that perfect heart that God so wants for us to have.

[jesusisawesome]

mcmstaff78: But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and despised by the people. (Psa 22:6)

1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1Jo 1:8)

JIA: Well said, 78.

[jbkrems]

JIA:

Look at the post above yours. Food for thought.

[jesusisawesome]

Jbkrems: I did look at the post above mine and read it through. However, 78's post spoke truth. Jesus alone is worthy of glory, honor and praise. I will gladly say I am a sinner, saved by his grace. I'm righteous, because of his precious blood and suffering on the cross, and I won't try to touch His glory, or take from what He did for me, and what He has given to me. He is my everything. My Lord, my saviour, my best friend, my life. I will gladly bown down and kiss His beautiful feet.

[jbkrems]

JIA:

Ok. But you are also a child of God... and a saint, as well. And, you were a sinner... but you shouldn't claim to be a sinner any longer, if you are saved by God's grace (and I believe you are).

[jesusisawesome]

Yes, I am a child of God, yes I am a saint through the blood of Jesus, and yes I am a sinner saved by grace.

What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
How precious is the flow,
that makes me white as snow.
No other fount I know,
nothing but the blood of Jesus.

[mcmstaff78]

Krems: What Paul is saying to Timothy is that he is a "chief" among all Christians, those who were sinners, and now saved by grace and God's children.

Me: No. First of all, there is no place where he says anything about "Christians". Second, the Greek is clear that "chief" modifies "sinners". Paul clearly terms himself "the chief of sinners", which is indisupted by all but those who espouse perfectionism.

While I agree that the scriptures teach that in Christ we *can* live without sin. They also teach that we do *not*, even as Christians, live without sin. I know, I know. I use to believe just like you. But you've got to drastically alter what you perceive to be "sin" to deny this. The arrogance. The pride. The gossiping. The judgementalism and criticism. No, my friend, I have never met *anyone* "free" from sin in the sense you're implying, and I spent 25 years around folks who believed pretty much the way you do.

[jbkrems]

JIA:

That song is a celebration of what Jesus already did for you on the cross and what you have received. Its possible to have victory over sin, you know.

mcmstaff78: I use the NAS translation, and my Bible does not use the word "chief." It does use the word "foremost," though. I did some cross-referencing in my Bible on the phrase "foremost of all." I found a lot of interesting references, including Paul calling himself the "least of the saints," and the "least of the apostles" in Eph. 3:8 and 1 Cor. 15:9, respectively.

The fact is that once you are saved, you are no longer a "sinner" in the respect of one who lives a lifestyle of sin. To be sure, most Christians sin in that they struggle with one area or another. The mature Christian should have a regular confession with God for which he or she can receive God's cleansing and forgiveness. That's called humility. It is also possible to not sin. Arrogance and pride ARE sin... but it is possible to be humble, and to stop gossiping, judging others, and being critical.

Have I met others who are *totally* 100% free from sin? Not in the way that you imply. However, my pastor says he does keep a clear conscience with sin, which means he has short accounts with God. And I think that is being humble, good, and very possible for every Christian, don't you???

Finally, let me define what I mean if I use the term "perfect" or "perfection." To me, this is not a 100% total standard, but one who has a perfect heart before God, in that they keep short accounts when they do sin, on occasion, and they desire and earnestly try to live a lifestyle that avoids sin as a conscious choice.

[jesusisawesome]

jbkrems, consider the following, straight from the mouth of Jesus:

Luke 18:10-14 Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, "God be merciful to me a sinner."

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for everyone that exalts himself shall be abased; and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.


Yes it is possible to have vitory over sin . . . through the cross of Christ alone. I glory and revel in His shed blood on the cross! Thank you sweet Jesus!

[mcmstaff78]

Krems, the word is the same in the Greek no matter how you translate it. "First", "foremost", "chief" - doesn't matter, it modifies "sinners" in the context. (A good comparative translation bible or software can be very helpful here - I believe I used the KJV.) You can't ignore the context of the word to make it mean or apply to something else because of possible usage in other texts. St. Paul is specifically apply to himself the idea that he is chief of sinners.

Now, the question would be "what does he mean by that? I believe it is not a comparison of himself to otehrs, for we are not judged on a sliding scale and God will not look at us and say "you were better than him, but worse than her." Yet, as we get closer to God, we see ourselves more clearly and that *nothing* we can do ever meets His glorious perfection, holiness and love. Additionally, we can view ourselves worse than all others because, while they may have an excuse of ignorance, blindness, deception, we often sin fully realizing it. With a careless remark, a backbiting comment, a judgemental attitude, etc.

Now, you have effectively defined "down", in a sense, to what I think most would find acceptable. But this is not how being "free from sin" is typically defined in such circles. I spent a good part of 25 years studying both Wesleyan and Finney teachings on holiness, and I can tell you there is a definite sense in which the man *truly* committed to God is 100% free from sin. No, of course, both Finney and Wesley define "sin" as a deliberate transgress of the law or commandment of God. Yet this is only part of how the scripture views sin, and fails to deal with the whole category of unintentional sin. Even when I believed and taught all this stuff, nagging in the back of my mind was where the bible deals with unintentional sin. What about Lev. 4:22ff, which specifically states (here's the NAS version) "Now if anyone of the common people sins *unintentionally* in doing any of the things which the LORD has commanded not to be done, and becomes guilty," Whoa, becomes "guilty" of *unintentional sin?! I didn't think there was any such thing?

The problem with perfectionist teachings and such like is not that they hold up a standard of righteousness, but that they hold up an experience of total, compelete deliverance (however they call it) from sin and/or the fleshly nature and people then feel compelled to whitewash in their own lives what is clearly sin.

I certainly try to keep a "clear conscience" before God as well. I confess to God daily, I ask forgiveness of those I've offended when I become aware of it. I follow the admonition of James 5:16 regularly. But I am not without sin and "sin daily, in thought, word and deed". Yep, I'm a sinner, the chief of sinners as I stand before God. It is *only* through His grace at work in my life, cleansing, purifying, forgiving, justifying me on a moment by moment basis that I can have any hope of ultimate salvation.

Bad confession? Not in the least, it is the confession that meets our Lord's approval, "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." (Luke 18:13-14)

[jbkrems]

JIA:

About the passage from Luke, a few things. First, and probably the "key" is that this verse discussed a Pharisee versus a Publican... both of whom were not saved in the story, and both of whom were in need of God's grace and forgiveness as a sinner, because they were not saved.

I think we will agree that those who are unregenerate and not born again are sinners in need of God's grace and the Savior Jesus Christ.

However, I believe that once someone accept Jesus as their Savior and Lord, and is "born again," they are a new man, and their status has changed, from that of a sinner to a saint... in other words, God no longer views them as a sinner in need of a Savior, but now God sees them as a child of God, a saint, one who has been made perfect in Christ, and has the potential to gain victory over sin in their life.

mcmstaff: I agree with you there needs to be the issue of unintentional sin. I believe the key to victorious living, though is to become God-conscience rather than sin-conscience.

I think it is possible to go through a day and be without sin. God has given us the power to avoid sin and not sin. I think that is what 1 John 5:4-5, and verse 18-19 teach.

I also think it is wrong to call yourself a "sinner," because that is NOT how God sees you. He sees you as a child of God and a saint, someone who has been made perfect and holy in Christ.

Finally, as I commented to JIA above, the Luke 18 passage is a case in point for unbelievers, not for those who've already found their salvation in Jesus Christ. Big difference.

[wildwood_]

{Krems: I appreciate the time &amp; consideration given to the details of the words of the scriptures. I do most surely believe the Holy Spirit wrote them with a purpose. But when Jesus came and walked among the people, they flocked to HIM.

Where is God, Our Heavenly Father just loving only those children who believe in Jesus? He would have all men come home to Him...He would have all men chose the Way, the Truth, the Light...As He Reigns beyond our ability to understand time or comprehend eternity...The Lord God does know the choice each man has or will ever make...But His Love for all of us "sinners" is so far beyond our ability to understand that we really haven't a clue until we are with HIM in Eternity. Please, try to read the Word as His Love Letter to Us...not as a legal document with sub-clauses and fine print...The cross was a large X. So even illiterate people would have no trouble with the "document"... }

<font color="ff0000">"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life".</font>

[mcmstaff78]

Krems: Your comment on Luke 18 demonstrates that you interpret scripture based on your belief system rather than vice versa. No where does Jesus say anything about either one being "unregeneraate", but He does say the publican went away "justified". That's the same word in the Greek that St. Paul uses for "justified" in Rom. 3:24 (among other places). Additionally, read the end of the verse. The Lord says (NAS) "for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted." Now, the verb tenses for "exalts" and "humbles" indicate continuing action rather than a one time event. Young's Literal Translation has the right of it where it translates this as "for every one who is exalting himself shall be humbled, and he who is humbling himself shall be exalted." The Lord is holding the Publican up as an example for our edification, that this is what our attitude should be. Remember, Krems, the Gospels weren't written contemporaneously, but a number of years after the events. They weren't written for unbelievers but for believers. They were written as examples for us, to teach us what it means to be a follower of Christ.

Now, I know nothing I write will convince you. I've read enough of the older posts to know that you are adamant in your position. I simply pray that God will one day open your eyes, but that in doing so He may be merciful.

[jbkrems]

Wildwood:

Are you saying some Scriptures are more important than others?

Are you implying that non-Christians/unbelievers are just as much God's children as those who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior???

[matt_hatter]

Wildwood:"Please, try to read the Word as His Love Letter to Us...not as a legal document with sub-clauses and fine print...The cross was a large X. So even illiterate people would have no trouble with the "document"..."

I think I am learning more reading posts like this about the true nature of our Loving Father than I have in years. I have started a folder specifically for things that jump out at me. When I need a lift, I click on it. This one just made the folder.

Matt

[wildwood_]

Wildwood: Are you saying some Scriptures are more important than others? Are you implying that non-Christians/unbelievers are just as much God's children as those who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior???

Krems...Why...hmmm, I hadn't thought of it that way. But Yes, I believe so. Because I believe that's standing up with Jesus...when asked a somewhat similar question: But I'm thinking maybe you're just kidding, and surely you've read this given your profession:

The Greatest Commandment Matthew 22: 34-39
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment.And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

And in case I'm not clear. I am saying the Lord cries for all his children...the sinners who never come to His Loving Out Reaching Arms and the sinners who jump up into His embrace and Hug Him and Call Him "Daddy" and say "I've come home"..."Thank You for mailing me that ticket, leaving the Light On...DYING for Me...Forgiving Me". The Prodigal Son...was eating with the pigs...he came home. He was still a son when he was with the pigs...The Father didn't get down &amp; dirty with the pigs...but He hugged that scraggly stinky smelly son the moment he glimpsed him coming down the road. I mean no disrespect but you sound almost as shocked as the prodigal's brother when he found out about that party and the fatted calf... Maybe I'm just not understanding your point of view yet.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif I'm trying.

[jbkrems]

Wildwood:

I'm not kidding. You are implying that the Gospels are more important than the rest of the NT, esp. the Pauline Epistles, and I really disagree with that... I think everything is equally important in the Scriptures... 1 Tim. 3:16.

Eh, no, I still don't understand YOUR point of view, either. Let me ask you a simple question:

Do you believe a non-Christian IS God's child?

Yes or No???

Please answer and that clarifies what you mean.

Thanks.

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi all calling from southern ailliagtor den..pre -supose that JBkerms et all, is doing a paper on us,why things not become internal to him. We are his subjects as a study in a ma, law degree,,etc. Think about before you answer him again. This has happened before here,; this could be a new tack,so to speak.}

[jbkrems]

Copper:

I'm not doing a paper on y'all. So, you can rest assure that I'm not sharing stuff with people, etc.

[wildwood_]

Hi Krems, I'm a little sleepy. But, I'll check back tomorrow. I'm sorry I thought by quoting Jesus when He answered the lawyers question about what the most important aspect of the then available scriptures where...in Matthew 22nd Chapter...that it would be clear. Since He said it could all be summed up by Loving the Lord God &amp; Each other...seems same answer still fits just fine. The Son has always spoken in agreement with the Father and been with Him prior to Time.

AND YES I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THAT THE LORD GOD LOVES A NON-BELIEVER JUST AS MUCH AS A BELIEVER. As Believers we are the children who come HOME to the Father. God created Adam &amp; Eve. He walked with them in the Garden...He loved them. They sinned. God wants ALL His children to come home. God so loved the world. Since you are carefully considering context...it does not say "God so loved those who would believe on Jesus Christ who lived in the world that He gave His only begotten Son... The scriptures say...For God so loved THE WORLD THAT...no qualifiers... GOD LOVES... Man did the separation...Man's sin... God's LOVE reaches across that sin...God's Son...His Blood Fulfills the Law...His Grace... He only asks that we believe... sadly not all men do... Does God love them...yes. Does God Weep...Jesus cried for Lazarus. Lazarus "Came Forth" When Jesus Called... Don't you know people that the Lord has called over and over...who have chosen to stay in their Tomb? I do.

I truly, truly wish that you could just feel the tangible nature of these things, the touch of the Savior...Not just the written scriptures. I'm sure you know &amp; love the Lord. Your talent &amp; gift is obviously measuring, considering, weighing matters thoughtfully...But Jesus fulfilled the Law and ushered in a world of Grace. This Grace does not exclude accountability or give us freedom to sin that "grace may abound"...Paul preached on that specifically. It does mean, that we have as personal relationship with the Living Savior as we do with our parents. We are allowed to "touch" the ARK...the Holy Spirit has been poured out into the hearts of the Believers...those Children who believe Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God...who died for our sins, conquered death, and now reigns at the right hand of the Lord God Almighty. Every knee in this world will one day bow...and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Does God love the whole world...absolutely. He died for it.

And putting on a debaters hat for a moment: Given that only GOD knows the hearts of men... Even if you or I thought someone was not a "Believer" or would never ever possibly become a "Believer"; so we'd tell them "God doesn't love you as much as He loves me because I'm a Believer". Tomorrow or the next day, when that terrible sinner repents, come to Jesus and becomes the most powerful minister the world has ever seen: Then you &amp; I are going to be eating what is termed a lot of crow and I do not think I care much for crow. Only God knows the Guest List &amp; Arrival Dates for Heaven...I just want to make sure my reservation is clear and my arrival date at a suitably distant time...

I hope I haven't said something to annoy you. I'm really just wanting to understand you and I suppose I'd really like to change your mind about a few things...but you'd like to change my mind too...so I expect that's room for a nice discussion.

When do you take the bar...so we know to not distract you close to that time &amp; to be praying for you (and not at you...that was a joke...please laugh)... http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif

[jbkrems]

Wildwood:

I disagree with your premise that non-believers are also God's children. The Bible clearly says in the Gospel of John 1:18 that those who believe in Jesus are those who are God's children.

The Prodigal Son parable deals with the issue of backsliding, not someone who was never a Christian.

I have more talents and gifts than you know. My "weighing" and pondering only happens here.

Also, its different to think someone is not a Christian than to think someone cannot become a Christian. Anyone can become a Christian, the invitation is given to all.

I take the Bar on Tuesday and Wednesday this coming week... I'll be online sporadically to respond still. And I appreciate your prayers.

[wildwood_]

Copper: Hi..I keep just missing you on other threads,thanks for wisdom. I don't know who Krems is but he knows who he is I guess. He should appreciate the info also since it helps explain the reception (his tone as I'm sure he knows is a bit legal, too...but he probably thinks mine not legal enough.) I did not know that people had baited on this board from a sinister motivation. Jesus has a way of protecting the Sheep. I do most sincerely believe that His loving arms are counting us all one by one... and that this particular rather strangely collect flock has the favor of the Lord.

I saw your story. And for those that should have said this to you: I'm sorry. This was wrong. The dignity you've shown on this board...I had no idea there'd been a conflict. Sometimes I feel I walk among giants. You know, I pondered on a nickname that would compliment yours Coppertree and thus came "Wildwood" as in Church in the Wildwood... I hope you see that as a compliment!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[ulyankee]

jbkrems, blessings to you as you prepare for the bar exam!

everyone else, it is absolutely amazing how the Lord has used this disorganized rag tag bunch. You're right 84, you can't ruin the reputation of one who has none, and I have none of my own either - I lean on Christ's. I do have to remember to stay focused on the goal, on running the race, just like the apostle Paul wrote about. I can easily get sidetracked. Sometimes the bunny trail is exactly the narrow path where the Lord wants me to go; at other times it's a diversion.

Though lately I keep thinking of this I read the boards, not just in response to what is posted but who I now realize are reading and not necessarily posting...

...some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you. (Gal 2:4b-5)

We are exercising our freedom in Christ here. And what a place to be. Sometimes it's downright scary b/c I'm relying on an invisible God rather than tangible men and women to keep me in check. I was mega stressed out at work this week and really felt like I had no more fruits of the Spirit left - especially patience and self-control. But where I am weakest He is strongest. I need reminders of how weak and inconsequential I am without Him, b/c I tend to rest on my own talents and strengths (it has to do with that "smart angel" thing) rather than Him.

Gal 5:13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.

[miltietoast]

ul I guess somebunny has to works Thanks for the encouraging words

[miltietoast]

jbk said-I have more talents and gifts than you know. My "weighing" and pondering only happens here
thank you for taking the time to cast your cares and wisdom on the Lord and us sheep.The grass is greener wherever you walk,go getem tiger at the bar the legal profession will never be the same again oh no!

[wiseasaserpentgentleasadove]

Hi, Ulyankee. This morning as I was making my coffee, I felt like I needed to post a "How are you" post to you, forward, dust, bill, lc, and others that have been noticeably absent lately from here. I felt impressed to just reach out and say, "miss ya'll, are you o.k.?"

Unlike the lack of concern from my pastors and friends from my recently former church, no phone call, no how are you, no blessings...no acknowledgement that we left...I wanted to reach out to you all to make sure you are o.k., and to say that you have been in my prayers this week.
dove

[matt_hatter]

uly, did you get an email from our friend who is having difficulty getting registered?

Thanks for the words....and your faithfulness. You are coming to the back of the bus for some R&amp;R. Tikie can take over for a while.

He's amazing, simply amazing, Milite.

Matt

[ulyankee]

hehehe miltie, and guess what, I'm a state worker too. After growing up in what seemed like the Underemployed State Worker Capital of the World I now know that a few state employees have to actually work for a living. Though I felt at times this week like I was doing it b/c others weren't - that's where my lack of patience and self control really showed. But hey, that's my cross to bear so I had to stop complaining and just do what was in front of me to do. Which this week certainly had very little to do with FACTNet, ministry, research, or any of the other "fun" stuff I do on the side, hehehe.

[ulyankee]

Matt, I did. I tried to give some assistance (http://www.factnet.org/FAQ_Discussion_Board.htm#I_never_received_an_activ ation_email_after_I_created_an_account._What_do_I_ do_now) as best I could. FACTNet is on a "pay to fix" format though so if your friend doesn't want to wait on a volunteer, the $5 it costs (http://www.factnet.org/FAQ_Discussion_Board.htm#Charges) might be money well spent, and cheaper than a monthly World Partners donation (sorry for the dig. Wait, no I'm really not). The last time I donated $ to FACTNet to investigate a problem it was fixed pretty quickly.

[miltietoast]

biscuit probably can't afford the five, should I use my paypal acct?

[ulyankee]

oh wow, ok, didn't know that... I'd be willing to put in a paid request for help if needed.

[matt_hatter]

uly, he jests, she is a heavyweight. And thanks!

[ulyankee]

matt, good to hear, thanks. My gullibility is showing. Read all kinds of stuff between the lines there, hence a big part of the reason why I'm here now!!!! Anyway, I'm really looking forward to seeing her come on board the bus. I guess in a way she is, she just can't say so yet.

[annelewis]

Ulyankee wrote: "After growing up in what seemed like the Underemployed State Worker Capital of the World... (snip)"

There is no emoticon in the world that shows how funny I think this is.

[miltietoast]

mattie said- she is a heavyweight
mattie you have a way with words
I bet she will bust your biscuits for that confession

[miltietoast]

sorry ul

[sameo]

LOL..Anne, so true. This is priceless. And yeh, Matt....true waaay with words..LOL

"I bet she will bust your biscuits for that"

ah, let's hope so...

Uly...you are the best! thanks for all you do!
sameo

[ulyankee]

Anne, it must be funny 'cause it's true!!!! I always said I would NEVER become a State Worker Zombie like the people I would see get on the state office building campus bus (I used to walk there from the adjoining state university campus to catch a bus that went from there directly home without having to go all the way downtown first). They were really scary looking. Here I was, a young college student, bright eyed and full of hope, and I'm confronted with these glassy eyed folks hopelessly content to cruise the next twenty years toward what they considered Paradise - State Pensions, if CSEA continued to do their job (heard a lot of CSEA chatter on the bus). If I missed that bus, I'd go downtown instead to meet my mom and catch a ride with her. She worked in a building adjoining Rockefeller's Monument to Himself, otherwise known as Empire State Plaza, another place State Worker Zombies could be found in abundance.

Almost became an EN Zombie.

And now I'm a state worker.

All I am is in Christ, though. Without Him I'm just another walking dead person. Brouhahahahaha!!!

[wiseasaserpentgentleasadove]

speaking of walking dead people, just saw Pirates of the Caribean, Dead man's chest...yikes...those walking dead people gave me the creeps!

[ginger1]

i had a dream about zombies. I remember I was in an Island and that I was walking the opposite way of the zombies, there were thousands of them in an island. I wore the same thing but walking the opposite way, to the hangar. They did not recognized me. These zombies are all wearing white.As soon as I reach the hanger, I saw several kids needs to be rescued, one of the pilots told me we need to get out of this island fast.
I put , probably 14 kids in that plane and we took off that Island.

those Zombies represent EN. White clothes represent religious spirit. And yes, I did took some out of EN.
Plane represents the Holy Spirit , grace.

You see, Plane defys the law of gravity. The law of gravity represent legalistic law. It will keep you down.

[ulyankee]

ginger, after I posted what I did I thought, man, I'm really getting off track here now.

But then you posted what you did... wow.

God is so faithful to work ALL things to the good for those who love Him and are called together for His purpose. Even when I go off on something as seemingly irrelevant as zombies...

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi Widwood, Thank your for kind words , they mean a lot to me. I am touched about your name choice. I also thought about mine, as the trees planted , by the rivers of waters in the Word. And I also considered, the element copper, it is greatly mallealbe. Bacteria can not effect it, it was important in the Bronze age. Also part of this mix was Coperincus, the astronomer, and my favorite recent archaeology discovery in England, Coppergate. Thank you for your interest and kindness; it came to me in a timely fashion.}

(Message edited by coppertree on July 22, 2006)

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi Ul, I had almost the same thoughts, on the epiphany thread, about MCM/MSI/En as an similar device as in the tv show Lost.}