A message to EN from Hosea

[wiseasaserpentgentleasadove]

Will retry to post again later.

[jesusisawesome]

WAD, are you just trying to build up our anticipation?! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[john_r_jones]

She's being wise.
WAB

[jesusisawesome]

WAD, the suspense is killing me! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

[maranatha1984]

84: Okay Wise; "fess" up...

[miltietoast]

ghost in the machine? Your text is tooo big you must break it down to bite size, copy and paste into my documents in small goups, then post in several separate posts does that make any sense?

[wiseasaserpentgentleasadove]

yes..there has been GREAT resistance trying to post this, I'm not exactly sure why...There were several personal attacks that happened (hurdles, etc.)as I tried writing this down on paper after I lost it all when my computer shut down. Then, as I typed it all in this morning, 5 failed attempts to post. Here I go again. Miltie, I am doing just what you said.

[wiseasaserpentgentleasadove]

This past week, a friend of mine and I have been stuck in the book of Hosea. We feel God has given us a revelatory word from this book. It is a timely warning to any ministry in the Body of Christ who is guilty of being unfaithful to the Lord. While it can also be a word to an individual, I feel that because it addresses a large group of believers that is being unfaithful to God, that this is more for a body of believers. I pray the Lord guides my writing and helps me deliver this in a way that is going to be beneficial and fruitful. I pray it will also be confirmed.

Background: The Book of Hosea teaches 2 important lessons concerning the Holy Spirit. 1)It's important to depend on the presence of the Holy Spirit & 2) negative things happen when the Holy Spirit is missing from someone's life.

In Hosea, a spirit of harlotry is mentioned several times. This spirit causes people to stray into false ways and false worship, in contrast to the Holy Spirit who guides us in true ways and true worship. The Holy Spirit will witness to Christ, and the spirit of harlotry keeps people from knowing God.
(From my devotional Bible.)

During the time of Hosea, though all gauges of OUTWARD SUCCESS seemed positive for Israel, underneath disaster was lurking. The people enjoyed peace, plenty, and prosperity, but anarchy was brewing...it would bring political collapse of the nation in a few years.

I'll share a few key scriptures and try to expound on them as led. The focus of this is primarily on the fact that God told Hosea to take a wife of harlotry. He told him what to name their 3 children, each of which had a meaning behind them, sending a message to Israel who had departed from the Lord and turned to idolatry and building altars. God's desire was to use Hosea's life as the example of His love for His people. Knowing Hosea's wife would be unfaithful, he continued loving her and being faithful in return.

Hosea 1:2 When the Lord began to speak through Hosea, the Lord said to him, "Go, take to yourself an adulterous wife and children of unfaithfulness, b/c the land is guilty of the vilest adultery in departing from the Lord.

His children were to be called 1.)Jezreel-meanng "God Scatters" 2) Lo-Ruhamah-meaning "no mercy," showing God was lifting his compassion off of this rebellious nation. and 3) Lo-Ammi-meaning "not my people." This is indicating the end to the relationship.

3:1 The Lord said to me, “Go show your love to your wife again, thought she is loved by another and is an adulteress. Love her as the Lord loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes.

4:1 Hear the Word of the Lord, you Israelites, b/c the Lord has a charge to bring against you who live in the land. There is no faithfulness, no love, and no acknowledgement of God in the land. (No intimate fellowship with Him.)

[miltietoast]

you got it by the tail now drag the whole body

[wiseasaserpentgentleasadove]

4:7-9 the more the priests increased, the more they sinned against me; they exchanged their glory (their office, which was intended as one of high honor, has been used in disgraceful ways) for something disgraceful. They feed on the sins of my people and relish in their wickedness. And it will be: like people, like priests. (Meaning those following these priests would also be punished.)

4:17 Ephraim (synonym for the northern kingdom of Israel) is joined to idols. Leave him alone.

9:11 Ephraim's glory will fly away like a bird-no birth, no pregnancy, no conception. (Though the name Ephraim means "fruitful" its fruitfulness will end, indicating an end to God's blessing.)

10:1-3 Israel was a spreading vine; he brought forth fruit for himself. As his fruit increased, he built more altars; as his land prospered, he adorned his sacred stones. Their heart is deceitful and now they must bear their guilt. The Lord will demolish their altars and destroy their sacred stones.
(Israel is like a fruitful vine, but their prosperity only leads them into more and more sin.)

10:4 they make promises, and take false oaths and make agreements; therefore lawsuits spring up like poisonous weeds in a plowed field. (Note: b/c their system of justice is wrong, it is like hemlock, a deadly poison which destroys the fruitfulness of the land.

10:13 you have plowed wickedness; you have reaped iniquity. You have eaten the fruit of lies, b/c you trusted in your own way, in the multitude of your mighty men.

12:7-8 the merchant (trader) uses dishonest scales; he loves to defraud. Ephraim boasts, "I am very rich; I have become wealthy. With all my wealth they will not find in me any iniquity or sin."

This type of trader is one whose business practices are dishonest. Israel had become such an individual and thought its sin could not be detected.)

6:4 Ephraim, what shall I do to you? Oh Judah, what shall I do to you? For your faithfulness is like a morning cloud, and like the early dew it goes away.
(Israel's show of repentance was merely transitory, like a cloud or dew.)

13:6 when I fed them, they were satisfied; when they were satisfied, they became proud; then they forgot me.

14:2 Take words with you and return to the Lord. Say to him: "forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the fruit of our lips.
(The sacrifices God desires are words of TRUE REPENTANCE.)

[wiseasaserpentgentleasadove]

Summary: God told Hosea to marry a prostitute. His desire is ultimately restoration and mercy. When my former church joined MSI/EN, things slowly began to change. There was an enormous emphasis on appeasing newcomers. Things became very organized and controlled. Over a 5 year period of time, these are some things I saw change. (Growth was taking place exponentially.)

Many were leaving, but there's an invisible revolving door, just as many new ones are joining. In the early days we were told that Sunday morning was going to be for the newcomers, the potentially unsaved, and that we would not operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit on weekend service times, but that we would have a chance to grow in this area in our small groups.

Slowly, people were asked not to prophecy in small groups, or speak in tongues. The focus shifted away from the Word of God to topical studies using this book, or that book, as long as it was "approved" by staff. Worship then was removed from the small group setting. Now, the leaders in those groups are asked to go over the Sunday's sermon, which notes are provided for them to do this.

Many people have approached leadership with concerns, and were told to leave b/c they are not of their DNA. If your small group got a little too free, and miracles were taking place, they were reprimanded and some asked to shut it down.

I was rebuked for going to another prophetic conference with some "sheep" and was told I stepped out of their covering, and they were responsible for these sheep. I should go in secret to other places and meetings.

I say all of this to say how I relate EN to the Israelites who were unfaithful. This ministry has focused on numbers, and appearances, as if how large a church is validates the work of the Lord. Like the adulterous Israelites, you build altars and bring forth fruit unto yourselves, as your multitude of fruit increases, pride creeps in and sin abounds.

From the outside it appears that God is doing a mighty work at these churches and in this ministry. 1000's are attending where I went every weekend. Numbers mean nothing unless they are being saved and radically changed. Inside, God is not even welcome. He is grieved. I felt it in MY Spirit. He is not on the throne. He is not allowed to have His way. He is not allowed to speak. There is a form of godliness denying it's power. We are to turn away from such people. (2Tim.3:5)

2 Tim. 4:2-4 Preach the Word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, b/c they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

I believe we are in that time. A day of choosing is upon you. Choose whom you will serve. Repent and put God back in His rightful place as Head of His church. He will remove any lead in sin. He will not tolerate it.

[jesusisawesome]

Miltie: you got it by the tail now drag the whole body

JIA: Miltie, you have a way with words . . . http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

[philiprosenthal]

I would say the messages of all the pre-exile prophets are full of issues that are highly relevant to EveryNation. I mean, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Hosea, Micah. Themes include:
* False prophets and other false religious leaders trying to shut up true prophets and discredit them as false.
* Moral degeneration: bloodshed of children (abortion); adultery; theft; greed; abuse of power; idolatry (of leaders & ministries); lies & deception etc.
* Trusting in the religious teachings & symbols without using them properly: the law, the temple, the priesthood, consecrated food, the ark of the covenant - while ignoring obedience to God.
* God's imminent judgement unless the nation repents of its sins.
* False prophets delude the people to think they are safe from God's judgement, despite disobedience. (Triumphalism & prosperity message).
* Powerful abuse the weak for personal benefit instead of serving God and the sheep.
* Increasing arrogance.
* Phoney half-baked repentance instead of True repentance e.g. Isaiah 58, Jeremiah.
* Superficial lip service to God's commands.
* Religious leadership becomes a safe hiding place for hypocrites.

Sound like EveryNation?

If so, EveryNation needs to repent seriously and fast. It may not have that much time left to do so.

[coppertree]

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Hi Dove Thank you for your post on Hosea. It was grand, well done. I certainly bare witness with this teaching you have done. I gave almost the same teaching to the prophetic wing of the leadership of Maranatha in 1984-5. I was thanked for my effort, but no one took it to heart, so to speak. I hope that you will be more successful, as He is speaking this. I hope now maybe they will hear. }

[wiseasaserpentgentleasadove]

thanks philip for the additional insight to the rest of the prophets...yes, there is a lot to learn from them. I found it quite interesting with Hosea though that he was told by GOD to marry a prostitute and remain faithful to her.

coppertree-wow....did you give that in 84-85? 20 something years later, God is speaking the same thing...Thank you for that. I struggled with whether I was supposed to post it, and if I got into all of the crazy things that happened as I prepared this, not once, but 3 times, and all of the oppostition as I was preparing it....persistance pays...

to God be the Glory, I am just being obedient.

[wiseasaserpentgentleasadove]

Yesterday, as I was sharing with my friend who has been in Hosea with me the past week, about all of the obstacles that I had faced when tring to get this on here, even things happening while I was preparing it for the second time on paper, and told her that when I hit "post" all that showed up was a closing bracket } like that. That was it. So, we started pondering about this...I deleted the original post b/c I had errands to run and didn't want people to click on the thread and only see a } but there's a message to the } as well...

Closing the door?
Gleem what you may. I will repost that by itself.

[wiseasaserpentgentleasadove]

}

[robert_unknown]

its interesting, that i lost half of my church mainly because i made a clear decision FOR EN.

people knew that there was something wrong... they couldnt define it. i always thought they have a problem with authority. today i understand that I had a wrong understanding of authority...

some told me already 5 years ago that EN will come down, and that there is something definitely wrong in its roots.

it took me until now to understand that there definitely is something wrong, and that god talkes to his people to warn them, before they loose their freedom to a bunch of selfapointed apostles and false prophets!

[coppertree]

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Dear Robert, I know your pain; I have felt that as I worked for years and brought people into this church. We can be thankful for a God of the second chance, 3, 4, 5, 6th etc. He will redeem our time and life as promised ; to restore what the chanker worm has taken away. He knows our steps; He directs the way. I think as Ginger , wisely brought forward, the idea of breaking, and humbling us as mere men to know an infinite God. The blood of Jesus lets us in ; then His work begins in claryfing us, as fine metals are refined. In the fire of His love and Grace, He wants us dearly.}

[wildwood_]

Copper: "He will redeem our time and life as promised"

That's one of those profoundly QUIET AMEN Words...I wish there was a way for every poster to read it... For many, many years I did feel 'my time, my youth' had been stolen, I wondered if what I 'held onto' as a treasure was fool's gold. The Lord was Faithful in my "faithlessness", it took years to understand (for me at least) BUT this I do know and will testify to...Not one tear I shed, was wasted. Not one prayer to my Jesus was unheard. Not one minute has been lost...He's held them all &amp; Redeemed All. I do not understand how. I hurt people, they hurt me, in His Time...He's Perfecting Us All... Redeemed...Mere Men Redeemed by an Infinite Loving God. Thank You, Copper, Ginger, Robert, All parts... taken together Redeemed (I haven't "dwelled" on that WORD in a long, long, "time"...hmm, believe its going to be my prayer-thing for tonight)

[john_r_jones]

Wise,
Thanks for your post, idolatry is appealing but unfruitful. Another word for idolatry would be addiction a concept most of us can get our hands around. Israel had become addicted to among other things power and well being. They pursued them at any cost as do others in our time. Power can be idolatrous, and intoxicating.
John

(Message edited by john r. jones on July 23, 2006)

[matt_hatter]

Dove: I believe we are in that time. A day of choosing is upon you.

Your post 183...awesome. Thank you.