Dedicated to justyn_m

[jesusisawesome]

Justyn, I quote you from the Phillipines - Victory Churches thread: "If you want to immediately divide the body of Christ, then I suggest you be a gossiper and accuser. No wonder the scripture points to the Father of lies as the accuser of the brethren also. (See Rev 12:10)

Justyn_m, from first hand experience (my own), leadership does this to their very own members. I was put through a kangaroo court and systematically ripped apart. The pastor that I was serving walked in that role of the "accuser of the brethren". I'll never forget the anger and contempt, wagging of the finger, the words, "Your sweetness doesn't fool me. You have Jezebel big time!" This in front of all the leadership staff. Then in another attempt to control and manipulate me he tells me, "If you leave this church you will never fulfill the will of God for your life." Then when I choose to leave, I am blackballed, and my name is slandered. I have heard since that I was kicked out. A lie by leadership. I chose to leave, of my own free will.

This same pastor met with me one time after I left. Not for reconciliation, not to check on how I'm doing. To protect his own territory. He wanted to shake hands and part friends. What was he afraid of? I think that I would start being vocal. He definitely didn't show any care about me or my well being. I was gut level with him at that point, and shared my pain and hurt, anger, feelings of betrayal. Did he want to reconcile and set things right? No, he wanted me out of the picture. He wanted to shake hands and go separate ways.

[jesusisawesome]

Part 2

With what I had been through, I wanted to get as far away from this "ministry" as I could. I shook his hand and walked away. Not because I agreed, but because I felt betrayed to the core by those I held dearest.

Then the senior pastor over him, Phil Bonasso, the very man who would tell me I was like his own daughter, snubs me in an airport. Won't even look me in the eye or give me a simple greeting. Mind you, he never talked to me personally or heard my side of the story. He was too important to talk to me personally and find out the truth.

This, from the man I loved and served faithfully. Laying down my life to be at the beck and call of his family. He entrusted his kids to me. When I traveled with him and Karen to Palm Springs, who is the one with his girls, watching over them and seeing to their every need? When Rebecca wakes up crying in the middle of the night, who is pulling her close and cuddling her until she falls asleep? Me. Same thing at the last big conference in Texas when Bob Weiner announces their break-up. Who is missing most of the meetings to be with the Bonasso girls? Me. Who is awake until 1 or 2 in the morning, while Phil and Karen are with others, blow drying Rebecca's feet (this was a calming influence that helped her to fall asleep), until she finally falls asleep? Me. At Bob Weiner's house, during one of their top dog leadership meetings, who is the one taking care of all of the top leaders kids during this particular meeting? Me.

Yet Phil cannot even take the time of day to discern the truth about what happened to me. This from the man who told me I was like his own daughter.

[jesusisawesome]

Part 3

When I walk away, who is there to stand with me? Two churches turned their backs on me. I am left alone to try to sort out this mess of confusion in my head, and pick up the pieces of my life.

My one constant at this time was my job. I was completely wiped out emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually. I would crawl into bed with my bible hugged to my chest, crying out to God in my hurt, confusion and pain. Wondering, had God also forsaken me? Because after all, this was LEADERSHIP. We were taught to not question leadership. I went through absolute hell, crying out to God in my pain and confusion. "God, have you forsaken me?" "God, am I Jezebel?"

I was chewed up by this ministry, spit out, then left bleeding beside the road. So don't come here sermonizing to me or anyone else. I am one story of many, a first hand experience of betrayal and abuse, and not gossip.

These people here are the ones to come alongside, and love and care, so don't sermonize them. Don't sermonize us, when top leadership are the biggest gossipers, accusers of the brethren, and dividers of the body of Christ, with no one really holding them accountable.

With what is left of my life, if I can be one to help bandage the wounds of others that are hurting and see them healed and set free, then I will die happy.

[robert_unknown]

"When Rebecca wakes up crying in the middle of the night, who is pulling her close and cuddling her until she falls asleep? Me. "

Phil Bonasso, i hope you read this. you are such a WIMP. you are not a real man, but a wimp, champ. i mean it! its incredible, that you dont stand up in the night by your own when your blood-family needs you, but instead let another girl take care of your children. i guess you think that you are too important to take care of your own children, eh? or too busy? of course - the world needs to be taken over by men with the "right DNA". by men like you! ?

i think, this is exposing what this guy really is up to! i mean, hey, he doesnt even really care for his PHYSICAL babies. why do we bother when he doesnt talk to us? hah. its incredible. its just so idiotic and ridiculous. and then he comes to EUROPE and wants to put HIS ministry over our LIVES.

its so weird. its so incredibly stupid...

i have to go for a walk...

[jesusisawesome]

I walked away from all of this with no intention of every coming back or every being in contact with this ministry again. Then as the years go by, others that have served even longer than me have similar circumstances happen to them. I am seeing the results of a faithful life time service in a family that was the backbone of this ministry in California. The pain and betrayal and false accusation that they have walked through. Also another dear friend who has a national ministry that served this church faithfully. The story is repeating itself, so now I am involved. Not because I want to be a gossiper, but because I hope to see the cycle of spiritual abuse stopped. We are not here as lyers and gossipers. We have walked that path and know first hand what we are talking about.

[robert_unknown]

i whish, when they came to Europe to deceive us, i would have known what i do know now... I think I would have reminded ´nasso on his years at highschool... you remember,... the principal...

argh...
i have to go!

[jesusisawesome]

One thing to clarify here, Phil wasn't in a place to hear his daughter crying in the middle of the night. He and Karen were in a separate room, and I was the one in the room tending to the girls. But I hope my point here is clear to Justyn and all other readers. I served this man faithfully. He entrusted his daughters to me. Yet he did not even take the time to talk to me first hand and hear my story. Justyn, we are not gossipers and dividers of the brethren. We are those that have been gossiped about and divided from our brethren. You cannot even begin to understand the depth of what some of us have walked through. If leadership was held accountable, FactNet would not even exists. It exists because of the abuse and lack of accountability. There are dozens of first hand stories over all of these threads.

[matt_hatter]

This justyn is a prime example of the body parts and human debris in the rear view mirror that you and others have not even taken a glance at.

I am so blessed to have found a friend like JIA, and even more blessed to know that the Savior picked her up off the road and cradled her so the snakes you call our "appointed leaders" couldn't back up and run over her again. The putrid truth is that many left the faith and want nothing to do with the Lord, because of the false gospel that MCM/EN has perpetrated on them. Like I said, get out now. There is still time for you! As stated before, I would beat the EN out of you (not you personally) to save you. We are talking perspective since 1978.

I would encourage others to share their testimony with justyn. This is not all about scripture interpretation, my friend, it is about real humans who have been so negatively impacted by what you consider the truth, that it is taking years to recover.

Matt

[40days40years]

JIA Phil needs to read this. Ginger said that after services Phil would try to get away as fast as possible so his behaviour seems emotionally detached. Will he shake your hand if you have your wallet in it? I think you may have put the wrong title on this thing though. We need at least one posting from justyn saying Friend: why be angry? trust God.

I wonder if Phils cruise ship will ever come in, you know he can go on some mighty nice cruises in Florida, a ministry to the Bahamas. Pssst if you turn this message upside down we can dedicate it to Phil B. Look at the post number when you do this and read the message backward.

[matt_hatter]

Dang 40, go to the Speakword thread or somewhere where the weirdos hang out so we can usher in your 1000th post and senior member status. We will throw you a party!

Matt

[mdillon]

rummaging through the kiddies empeethrees looking for some fresh stuff. came across ben harper compliments of my Paddywagon's collection so i'm diggin' on it while in my shop and this song comes on "Excuse me Mister" and in light of this thread smelling like AllThingsBonasso I am taking liberty to post these lyrics, with a slight bit of editing, my apologies to Ben. nassy this one's for you, et al. <font size="-2">(ricey, don't look)</font> but don't worry, it's really too kind for how I really feel, but the tune is kinda catchy

<font face="verdana,arial,helvetica"><font color="0077aa">Excuse Me Pastor

Excuse me Pastor
do you have the time
or are you so important
that it stands still for you
excuse me Pastor
lend me your ear
or are you not only blind
but do you not hear

excuse me Pastor
isn't that bodies in your sea
and the smoke in the air Pastor
whose could that be

excuse me Pastor
but I'm a pastor too
and you're givin' pastor a bad name
Pastor like you

so I'm taking the Pastor
from out in front of your name
cause it's a Pastor like you
that puts the rest of us to shame
it's a Pastor like you
that puts the rest of us to shame

and I've seen enough to know
that I've seen too much

excuse me Pastor
can't you see the children dying
you say that you can't help them
Pastor you're not even trying

excuse me Pastor
take a look around
Pastor just look up
and you will see it's comin' down

excuse me Pastor
but I'm a pastor too
and you're givin' pastor a bad name
Pastor like you

so I'm taking the Pastor
from out in front of your name
cause it's a Pastor like you
that puts the rest of us to shame
it's a Pastor like you
that puts the rest of us to shame

and I've seen enough to know
that I've seen too much

so Pastor when you're rattling
on heaven's gate
let me tell you Pastor
by then it is too late

cause Pastor when you get there
they don't ask how much you saved
all they'll want to know, Pastor
Is what you gave

excuse me Pastor
but I'm a pastor too
and you're givin' pastor a bad name
Pastor like you

so I'm taking the Pastor
from out in front of your name
cause it's a Pastor like you
that puts the rest of us to shame
it's a Pastor like you
that puts the rest of us to shame</font></font>

dillyeaux

[robert_unknown]

"One thing to clarify here, Phil wasn't in a place to hear his daughter crying in the middle of the night. He and Karen were in a separate room, and I was the one in the room tending to the girls."

thats not the point JIA.
perhaps we europeans are different. i mean its STRANGE that Phil and Karen let a strange girl sleep in their childrens room. i mean i take care of my children, and i never would come to the idea to put another girl into their room, and let her do my job when the kids cry.

have you been working there as a nanny? i guess you did volunteer to serve them...

[j2theperson]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

perhaps we europeans are different. i mean its STRANGE that Phil and Karen let a strange girl sleep in their childrens room. i mean i take care of my children, and i never would come to the idea to put another girl into their room, and let her do my job when the kids cry.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I think it's strange also, and I'm American. I cannot fathom the mindset of a parent who turns their parenting duties over to someone else. It's absolutely crazy.

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi All- It was a common thing in Maranatha, that various people took care of the pastors children. They were fed, clothed , bathed and home schooled by people in the church, without cost to them,the leaders. People sometimes disregarded care of themselves and their families to do this. The laity got none such care, as this. It was for the leaders, as it was thought that they had a important job to do.}

[robert_unknown]

" They were fed, clothed , bathed and home schooled by people in the church, without cost to them,the leaders."

i have heared today about a philipino who was homeschooling rices kids...
no wonder that the leaders always talk about how wonderfull homeschooling is, and how bad public schools are... they have their slaves doing the job... argh. its so weird! i am happy that we dont have this extremes in europe. in "dark bad europe" http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[robert_unknown]

..." It was a common thing in Maranatha, "

its still going on in EN... at least in Brooks and Nassos circles... our highnesses still feel good about abusing people for their personal benefit... despite the fact that they could pay 10 fulltime-nannies from their income...

i am done with this weirdo "church"...

[matt_hatter]

Yes, Copper, this was a MCM/EN thing. Has nothing to do with the American culture, except for possibly the weirdly rich, and maybe this is the image these people wanted to project. JIA, that airport scene still causes my BP to shoot up.

[ginger1]

jesusisawesome , you know what is so funny, is that it truly shows, Phil and Karen Bonasso laziness of being a parent. They even have the nerve to teach parenting class. The truth is, they are bad parents, In fact, they even turned their girls to TONY FETCHEL.

Tony Fetchel truly did a Great Job parenting those girls. Yea, he was there at NIGHT too. For 7 years. I was told, he did it with two of the Bonasso girls. But according to Tony, Just the firstborn not the other. But who cares, he was there at night taking great care of the girls.

[freedom43]

I didn't realize until I read this today that the pastor's and wives in Maranatha had turned over the homeschooling so frequently to other people. I thought it was a fluke/circumstances that I ended up homeschooling a Maranatha pastor's three kids for about a year -- and cleaned their house, did their laundry, etc. When they asked me to work for them, the wife said she was going to do the schooling. Didn't turn out that way. That was after I had cleaned their house weekly for years for free after working all day in my day job.

[dazzla]

Justyn,

Perhaps you can find the biblical reference that instructs congregants to serve the leaders by cleaning their house and schooling their kids.

[robert_unknown]

"I didn't realize until I read this today that the pastor's and wives in Maranatha had turned over the homeschooling so frequently to other people."

do you know how much work homeschooling is? a friend of us does this.
work is something people like bonasso and broocks dont really like. work is bad, for this pseudo.iuntelectuals. its better to preach low-class sermons on sunday, and then go play golf together.
they like to live the live of kings, and work is not a part of this.
so its no wonder that they delegate this responsability to their labor-slaves, instead fullfilling it by themselves.

i am happy that this junk gets exposed here!
may all the world know whats going on!

[ulyankee]

dazzla, my guess would be Acts 6:2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%206:2;&amp;version=31;) - Then the twelve summoned the multitude of the disciples and said, “It is not desirable that we should leave the word of God and serve tables.

However, if this verse is indeed being used to totally absolve EN "apostles" of any worldly responsibility and allow them to take house slaves, it ignores the entire context of Acts 6:1-7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%206:1-7;&amp;version=50;). In fact, they would be wise to follow Paul's admonitions to Timothy (1 Tim 3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20tim%203:1-10&amp;version=31)) THEMSELVES about the qualifications of said mere deacons.

(Message edited by ulyankee on August 13, 2006)

[mdillon]

Ulyankee I was going to write you about this same scripture offline, so this will be a quickie (maybe). Upon this verse the whole western idea of ministry has now morphed into career/pension/insurance/benefits/housingallowances adnauseum of a “special” class of people with a “higher” calling. This was the xtra strong KoolAid served throughout my years in MCM and was extremely difficult to become disentangled by its deception.

I simply want to pose another look at what happened when the apostles made that choice. Perhaps it was a wrong choice. Matter of fact, why not let’s play What Would Jesus Do (wristbands everyone) Did not Jesus show them TWICE what He would do in same situation? He even gave them a direct, and I quote, “YOU FEED THEM” (emphasis mine). Upon this action of the apostles the crack of division was laid that has spread these many centuries of the heresy of clergy/laity.

Now let’s look at the “fruit” of said decision. The faithful men that were chosen, did not the Holy Spirit “go with them”. Absolutely. Why? Because they were faithful and they served and look what happens, the move of the HS goes with them, Phillip, Steven, et al, and the shift of the center of “Christianity” nows goes from Jerusalem to Antioch. The apostles holed up in Jerusalem and got into doctrinal tiffs and authority spats (Demosthenes? Is that right?) while hiding out---but Antioch was rocking---multicultural servant leadership and lack of hierarchical structure, and the whole westward move of the Gospel came from Antioch. When young SaulPaul came into the picture, Barnabas insisted he go to Antioch and there he sat his clacker down for at least 13 years before launching into “ministry” which also included knowing how to support himself with a trade so he would not be dependent on the Lord’s people unless absolutely necessary.

Somehow, when I overlay the account of ministers in the NT and look at America’s version (self included) I simply want to hurl. I do know, however that there are strong representation of true apostolic ministry where men and women are sacrificing and even though they have the “right” to be supported, they refuse because of the over abuse. more than likely you won't find them on TeeVee or your nearest DogAndPony Spiritual Conference

dillyeaux

[ulyankee]

you geaux, dilleux! I do know, however that there are strong representation of true apostolic ministry where men and women are sacrificing and even though they have the “right” to be supported, they refuse because of the over abuse.

Isn't this pretty much the same thing that the apostle Paul did... see 2 Corinthians 11 &amp; 12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%2011-12;&amp;version=31;)? In light of the puffed-up "super apostles" he railed about?

I was going to post this on another thread this AM but the post would have been over the limit... but I really found out the true heart of the current church I belong to and its leadership after Katrina... One of our pastors live(d) in St. Bernard Parish and lost EVERYTHING. He has a wife and three kiddies too. Their response was to help those in MORE NEED than they were. And not in the eyes of the media either, but totally under the radar. No media, no public attaboys from government officials or other Christian leaders, no flashy websites showing who they've joined up with and the great work they are doing, etc.

BTW, "everything" was not a mansion but a typical middle class home, kind of like what I live in, on an income comparable to what I make (not poverty level in conjunction with a second income but isn't at all like what EN senior pastors make either).

THIS is what true servant leadership is all about. THESE are the type of true Christian leaders I am happy to submit to, who model Jesus Christ to the best of their ability as the Spirit empowers them. They know the true head of the body of Christ is Jesus Christ alone, not them acting with Christ-by-proxy authority.

[jesusisawesome]

Robert, in my reference above, I'm clarifying because I want to be very careful to be stating the truth and not leading to possible false implications. I want to be very careful to be very factual in everything that I say. This was a one time instance in Palm Springs. It was not a normal happening. I'm not trying to bring to attention their parenting here at all. The point I'm trying to get at, is the level of involvement and implicated trust from Phil. I loved his family. There was a tremendous amount of pain that occurred with the events that happened to me.

Let me also clarify and say that I never home-schooled the girls. I was very involved with every aspect of MCM/VCF/MSM, however. You name it, I did it. Anything the leadership asked of me, I did with a willing heart. Whether it be to babysit and clean, or to post flyers and evangelize on campus. I attended every service, every bible study, every prayer meeting. My whole life centered and revolved around this ministry. I felt betrayed to the utmost by leadership at the time of my leaving, and then the lies and the gossip that followed.

There is control and and spiritual abuse that happens, and I am one example of this. Leadership is not held accountable as they should be. Please, I am not trying to attack any parenting here. I want Justyn to hear a first hand story of my experience, and that has been my attempt here, to share my pain and what I have walked through.

[lablady2]

The simplest fact was lost on these pastors. They were supposed to be shepherds. Anyone in a caretaking position (shepherd, nurse, parent...pastor) should understand that they are there to serve, not to be served. It's not rocket science, and I think the point was missed often and deliberately.

If I were in a Christian church today, my pastor would have to be the kind of guy of mowed the church lawn with me, painted the church nursery with me, etc. The only difference between he and I would be that on Sunday morning I sat in a pew and he stood behind a pulpit. Period.

[mdillon]

hey lab i think the pulpits should be the first to go, not that it would change hearts, but just symbolically dealing with the chasm. I do not in any way, shape, or fashion endorse pulpit burning because I could use the scrap wood

dillyeaux

[jesusisawesome]

Matt: I am so blessed to have found a friend like JIA, and even more blessed to know that the Savior picked her up off the road and cradled her

JIA: Matt, thanks for your kind words. He did pick me up off the road, cradle me, and tend to me. As said before, over time Jesus simply becomes more and more and more beautiful to me.

[mdillon]

hey lab i think the pulpits should be the first to go, not that it would change hearts, but just symbolically dealing with the chasm. I do not in any way, shape, or fashion endorse pulpit burning because I could use the scrap wood

dillyeaux

[jesusisawesome]

lablady: The simplest fact was lost on these pastors. They were supposed to be shepherds. Anyone in a caretaking position (shepherd, nurse, parent...pastor) should understand that they are there to serve, not to be served. It's not rocket science, and I think the point was missed often and deliberately.

If I were in a Christian church today, my pastor would have to be the kind of guy of mowed the church lawn with me, painted the church nursery with me, etc. The only difference between he and I would be that on Sunday morning I sat in a pew and he stood behind a pulpit. Period.

JIA: That was beautifully said Lablady, and bears repeating. True shepherds are there to serve, following the example of Christ.

[wildwood_]

Gossip whispers in secret; Jesus proclaims the Truth in the Light. JIA, your words shine bright as the noon day sun and by doing so…You are helping to set the captives free, perhaps even those who so terribly wronged you in the name of our Lord.

The Phil B’s of this world not only rob the flock entrusted to their care; they rob their children… And they rob themselves of ever learning how to become real brothers, real husbands, real Daddy’s because somewhere along the way (if their hearts did know the Lord)…somehow…they began to believe that the Lord God needed “THEM” to build His Kingdom instead of just being themselves and allowing Jesus to Shine through and “draw all men unto Him”. So, they built a “Kingdom” here on earth that left empty front row seats for the Mighty, but turned away “Jesus and His Angels Unaware” (the homeless, the broken, the unlovely) at the door. Once again, there’d be no room at man’s inn…. But in a stable, or a washed-out Church-home in New Orleans… or a Factnet Board…Jesus makes a home. AND JIA...you shine a beam of light...that reminds me of my parents house in the country...people ALWAYS found a way to their door. Your Graceful Faith is a strong beam (of Oak or Light, works both ways) in the Lord's "Kingdom" that for all their wealth; those silly men cannot comprehend or equal.

This one thing I do know. For every Soul wounded in the name of Jesus; The Lord himself, surely must come, one night as He did to me, finding me crying, head buried under the covers. It was years later, I thought I was “over” the hurt; but I still didn’t understand. But one night, I knew He was there. I asked Him how Lord, that I could’ve been so wrong, was it “me”…how could the “Truth” so clear to me be so dark to others? I’m sure it was Jesus because the words I heard were few (unlike me); <font color="ff0000">“I offered it. They said No.”</font>. Until that moment, I’d never considered that possibility…suddenly; although my life was a comparative wreck from worldly success markers…. I’d been smart enough not to say “No” to Jesus. (ah, exceptions noted but repented of on a daily basis). Each day, these men and women are offered a “Choice”; at night, every night, how bitterly some of them must be reaping saying “No” to the Truth of Jesus Christ, how awful for them to have to look in the mirror, or their children's eyes and see not the love of Jesus, but themselves. I pray that one night, just one of them says “Yes”, “Father, Forgive me I did not know what I did” and from there… Nothing with God is Impossible. Perhaps,after healing their children, starting with a profound apology to you, JIA, and one by one to each Soul who has opened their heart on this board….

Interesting fact I did not know until a few minutes ago: Gossip is from a Middle English word for Godparent or "Present at Baptism".

[40days40years]

Well since this is dedicated to our friend Justyn, what about that? <font color="ff0000">Jesus offered truth to these men in the states and they said NO!</font> Justyn have you been reading these latest posts on domestic servanthood? Let the leaders clean their own homes and teach their own children unless they are willing to pay a servant or nanny to do it.

[40days40years]

And let them pay a wage the world pays.

[robert_unknown]

"Justyn have you been reading these latest posts on domestic servanthood? Let the leaders clean their own homes and teach their own children unless they are willing to pay a servant or nanny to do it."

unless Nasso and Brooks cannot care for their own houses properly, thay have no right to care for the church. thats also in the bible.

[40days40years]

Their willing to do that now robert their kids are almost grown. Not good enough my friend, maybe 10 or 15 years ago.

[football7]

We are free, because we can see MCM and EN from the other side. When you are in it, you don't see it except for glances. I was saved in MCM in Paducah, from Catholism so my models were Bob, Rose , Rusty Mildred etc. You assume what they are saying and modeling is correct. I remember one time we took a single woman to MLTS. She said to me " football, what is going on here ? There is no love between husbands and wife's, no affection, I get more from my unsaved husband. I didn't get it ! funny how certain events are emerging from my brain.
When we had our first baby, I was told to get a handmaiden to clean my house etc... and take care of the baby. I didn't want a handmaiden and I definately didnt' want someone taking care of our new baby. But that was the culture and I thought something was wrong with me. They just don't GET IT !! It is not even on the radar that this is wrong. As painful as leaving was, aren't you all grateful that your out and can see the abuse ? We were a mini-culture like the JW's and Mormons no outside influence and we were too young to be in ministry. Straight out of drugs, sex and rock n roll to control but for many years you only love Jesus and you think he is this way. Thank God, my Southern Baptist husband never bought into it all so after years of pointing out the inequiticy ( sp ) I got it.

[jesusisawesome]

Wildwood, thank you for your kind and very gracious words to me. And to everyone else here, I appreciate your hearts and your love for the truth.

[justyn_m]

From: "jesusisawesome"

Justyn, I quote you from the Phillipines - Victory Churches thread: "If you want to immediately divide the body of Christ, then I suggest you be a gossiper and accuser. No wonder the scripture points to the Father of lies as the accuser of the brethren also. (See Rev 12:10)

Justyn_m, from first hand experience (my own), leadership does this to their very own members. I was put through a kangaroo court and systematically ripped apart. The pastor that I was serving walked in that role of the "accuser of the brethren". I'll never forget the anger and contempt, wagging of the finger, the words, "Your sweetness doesn't fool me. You have Jezebel big time!" This in front of all the leadership staff. Then in another attempt to control and manipulate me he tells me, "If you leave this church you will never fulfill the will of God for your life." Then when I choose to leave, I am blackballed, and my name is slandered. I have heard since that I was kicked out. A lie by leadership. I chose to leave, of my own free will.

This same pastor met with me one time after I left. Not for reconciliation, not to check on how I'm doing. To protect his own territory. He wanted to shake hands and part friends. What was he afraid of? I think that I would start being vocal. He definitely didn't show any care about me or my well being. I was gut level with him at that point, and shared my pain and hurt, anger, feelings of betrayal. Did he want to reconcile and set things right? No, he wanted me out of the picture. He wanted to shake hands and go separate ways.

==============================

Dear Friend,

I do not question your firsthand experience if that is legitimate. If that particular church pastor did you that very thing then I suggest you leave the church immediately and look for another church where you can attend and grow spiritually if things didn't work out well between the two of you. However, to spare you from being bitter over that pastor I suggest that you leave the result to God as to how He will vindicate you. Do not speak evil things about your enemy but instead learn to bless them. Remember Jesus' words, "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Mat 5:44), "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you" (Luk 6:27). My friend, do not keep on posting negative things about your enemies because they too are Christian believers like you. Why not go to your room and pray for them everyday instead of posting. Prayer is much more powerful than the FactNet right? God bless!

Justyn M.

[40days40years]

Justyn: My friend, do not keep on posting negative things about your enemies because they too are Christian believers like you.

How do you know the leader talked about here is a christian Justyn? This woman was Phil Bonassos hand maiden/servant girl or whatever you call it and was treated horribly, would a believer do that to her or the others? How do you know he is christian I am sorry but read the posts from the start of this message board and count how many say bad things about this "man" of God. There are so many violations so many crimes against sincere believers I am sorry that is a fact. Maybe he is christian but common sense would say??? Come on Justyn you have to be fair.

[wildwood_]

Justyn,
If they are Christian believers like those who post on this board; then why do they do they not come in Truth, Themselves to reach out one by one to those who have been wounded under their "Leadership"? To answer in the Light.

Justyn, you also said "Why not go to your room and pray for them everyday instead of posting?" Prayer is much more powerful than the FactNet right?" Well, Justyn, perhaps your heart will be reassured to know what I've discovered about the men and women who post on this board: They do pray. Together. Daily. Somewhat continually, Sometimes even Pray-Posting: <font color="ff0000">"Where two or three are gathered together in My Name there am I in the midst of them".</font> Most on this board do not seek the Power of Prayer or Power of the Internet to tear down sand castles built by Man;these schemes have been falling since the foolish man built his house upon the sand. The Lord will ALWAYS bring the rain. Most on this board pray for the Grace of God to open men's hearts to the Light of Truth which may be found on these boards; that one by one wounded, broken sheep find there way here to begin to heal, to know again the Gentle Touch of the Saviour's hands.

Most on these boards also pray-post... That one by one, those Shepherds who at best failed to seek out the one lost lamb and at worst those Shepherds who abused their sheep by pride and avarice...One by one, that those Shepherds' Hearts of Stone return to flesh, to new Hearts of Jesus.

You posted somewhere of the "vindication" of the leaders. Here's their opportunity...to post in the Light of Jesus' Love. Would they be able to stand in it's brightness? "To prove that what someone said or did was right or true, after other people thought it was wrong.?" That's the definition of Vindication. Factnet is a message board. Typed on by men &amp; women. The Light of Jesus cannot be hidden and His love shines into the darkness and the darkness can NEVER overcome it. I'm praying for a day when we are all walking together in the Light of His Love...Whole, Healed, Rejoicing...At What a Mighty God We Serve...who took such scraps from here and there (including you Justyn) and wove a Glorious Coat of Many Colors. In Jesus Name. WW.

[jesusisawesome]

Justyn, my firsthand experience is legitimate. I pray, Justyn. I've prayed many prayers. I have never considered these people my "enemies", and I am not speaking evil, I am speaking truth. I walked away from this years ago. Since then, there are others that have gone through similar situations, people I know with faithful hearts who have laid down their lives to serve this ministry. People that I walked closely with and know their character and their integrity. That is the point where I have stepped in. If it is just me, I don't care and I know to whom I belong. It is the continuing cycle that I care about, and what has led me to start posting.

[ginger1]

JustynM, if those prayers, the intercessors of your church works, if God listen to you, so how come God still send his JUDGEMENT TO YOUR CHURCH ?

Jesus said :
26"So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
_________

Yet you rather have people " to keep quiet and not post negative things ?" You consider it as "gossip", as I consider Obeying the instruction of the Lord. Which was prophesied to us 15 years ago.

It does not looked like your "Suggestion of Prayers Works." God's hand and His Works, His Judgement to the Philippine Ministry , IS pretty LOUD AND CLEAR . Even that YOU WANT TO HIDE IT.

[philiprosenthal]

I would ask for caution here. There may be valid criticisms of problems in EveryNation posted on this thread and I am sympathetic to those who have been abusively treated - as I have been also and I know many others in the same boat. But I don't think it is fair to hold Justyn_M accountable for them, just because he is the only pastor who chooses to enter into dialogue with dissenters. Wouldn't you like to encourage more pastors to enter into dialogue towards finding healing, reform solutions etc? If so, then suggest try not to pin guilt-by-association on him. I think it is reasonable to assume that in a big organisation there will be good and bad leaders. Is it not fair to assume people innocent till proven guilty. Justyn is not defending the evils in EveryNation I think he is just saying be careful not to hurt the good people in the organisation while dealing with the bad. I don't think that is a message we should ignore.

[jackbauer]

"Why not go to your room and pray for them everyday instead of posting?"
-Justyn

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you sound so eli soriano to me..

[robert_unknown]

Justyn,
I do agree that prayer is more important than anything else. But it is not only prayer, that the Lord expects us to do. If there is unrightessness happening in the house of the Lord, we are expected to respond to it in a certain way. I posted the evrses already several times, and believe that you have read them. so prayer is one thing, talk is another thing, and exposing things publicly is the third step.

As i said before - if there WOULD be a normal and healthy way to discuss this things in a church environment, it would be better. unfortunatelly EN does NOT provide ANY possibility to discuss this things in the church. Instead they draw people into kanguruh courts, discredit them and throw them out of church. I have wittnessed this more than once.

So FactNet does help people to share their testimonies. It does help to expose sin. it does help to recover (it helped me a LOT!).

i agree - prayer is the base and the most important thing.

but, as i said - the church HAS to judgte unrightesness inside of the church! GOD will judgte it in the world.

[robert_unknown]

churchethics in wide parts of EN are upside down!

people who have sometimes served many years faithfully in church get rebuked, desciplined and excommunicated (and slandered about), when they ask honest questions about abuse of money or people.

the abusers sit on their throwns, dont change ANYTHING...

dont you think THEY aer the ones who should be rebuked, disciplined and - if their is no REAL repentance excommunicated?

what does the scripture say about this?

[robert_unknown]

so i would recomend the following to the leadership of EN:

- if there are people criticising some practices in EN or some wrongdoings, the leaders of EN should pray more about this people and there concerns. perhaps wrong accusations will stop. but it could also be, that God opens the eyes of some of you to show you - perhaps - that the concerns are real and the wrongdoings also.

we all know that the leaders of EN, the chosen movement of God, are more mature than we guys on FactNet, and they ought to be good examples to the flock and to the world. So dont you think it would be good if THEY pray more, before they destroy dreams and lives of others, by slandering, abusing, manipulating, discouraging this people?

so if we should pray, instead of writing here on factNet, dont you think this would be a good advice for Brooks, Nasso and all the others?

instead of beeing concerned for material increase, instead of using students for their personal livestyle (cutting the grass, schooling the kids, ,,,), instead of lying, discrediting people, they should pray more... would be good for all of us.

(Message edited by robert_unknown on August 15, 2006)

[jesusisawesome]

Philip, we are addressing Justyn's comments. No one is holding him accountable for the wrong doing of others, and I don't believe any of us are trying to "hurt the good people while dealing with the bad." Quite the opposite.

Regarding your comment, "Is it not fair to assume people innocent until proven guilty?" What about the innocent who have been wronged that this board represents? Who is going to be their voice, if we just walk away and be quiet? The flock were not given a voice when I was a part of this. Anything that differed from the party line of leadership was considered rebellion. The flock had no voice. The only voice was that of the top leaders.

Justyn doesn't appear to be here for healthy dialogue to me. Rather, it appears to me that he is here to correct what he considers to be gossipers and dissenters. I have given him a first hand example above, and not gossip.

[jesusisawesome]

Jesus said to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Saducees. Top leadership sets the tone for any ministry, and a little of their leaven will leaven the whole lump. Whether the people are good or bad, anyone that stays in this ministry will be leavened by what is taught from the top. When I was a part, I was leavened, no matter my sincere intentions to please and serve God. It wasn't until after leaving that my eyes were completely opened.

Top leadership sets the tone, and needs to be held to the highest accountability, not the lowest. Instead, you have the reverse. A knat is strained out where the sheep are concerned, but where top leadership is concerned a camel is swallowed.

I'm getting really weary of people coming in here with their concern for the rights of leadership. All the power is in the hands of the leadership. What about the rights of the sheep? Where is their voice heard? Well, it is heard here on FactNet. That is the purpose of this forum.

[jesusisawesome]

Justyn, I shared some my story with you. I am familiar with many other stories that I know of first hand. Some before I left, some after. There were beautiful people I knew that were damaged by spiritual abuse while I was still a part. I saw it happen, but I didn't really SEE it. I was blinded by the "do not touch God's annointed" type of teaching . . . leaven from the very top. I saw wrong things done, but excused it away because of the teaching that you do not question authority, you only pray if you see something wrong. I regret my blindness now, and if I could go back in time, I would stand up on behalf of these friends. It is too late for that now. What I can do, is stand up now and share. That I am doing.

[dust]

Philip writes: Wouldn't you like to encourage more pastors to enter into dialogue towards finding healing, reform solutions etc?

Phil, Justyn didn't enter into dialogue. His suggestion sounded a bit detached and patronizing. Maybe when his wife or daughter gets hurt in this ministry he will think differently.

The MAIN REASON this board exists and Every Nation members are here on FactNet is that Every Nation has no PROPER CHURCH DISCIPLINE. ABUSIVE, leaders who have stepped OVER the authority of scripture are not dealt with. This will lead to the public exposure. If my child gets molested at the kindergarten playground, am I not to warn the school, if the authorities "cover it up." Yes, I will pray for that pedaphile; however, if I do not warn others of this predator that the LAW will not deal with, then I must PROTECT the children.

It's that simple. You can try to reframe "coverup" as church idealism, but that is not biblical. In fact, the bible says with such disobedience (greed, unrighteousness as has been case in EN) not to even EAT with them. But, since the church will NOT deal with their own sin, they will be subject to the consequences of public exposure. Jusytn, your time could best be spent pleading with the sinning leadership to repent! Not a coverup.