Strange email from FactNet

[robert_unknown]

I got this email today...
is it a scam or is it really from FactNet?
------------------------------------------

Dear Factnet Users,

In spite of just crossing the landmark 10,000 registered user mark and 300,000 forum posting mark, we have somehow missed the minimum operational funding targets over the last 3 months. This could not come at a less opportune time. Here is why?

As you may have already noticed, we have been dramatically upgrading the site. We needed to meet our funding targets to complete this vital technical upgrading work. We also need funding to assist high risk, high security cult victims with emergency services.

To make matters worse, we have not even covered our basic operational service costs! If we do not reach our special emergency donation goal of raising at least $6,000 over the next 10 days, we will be forced to impose a subscription fee for our discussion forums of several dollars a month or, if this funding problem continues past the next 10 days we also may have to shutdown Factnet (hopefully temporarily) and go offline until we are able to raise this amount.

In addition, right now several high ranking cult executives are on the verge of leaving several particularly nasty organizations. They urgently need Factnet’s help in getting fully and safely out of their cults and in getting their insider information to the proper legal and governmental authorities not to mention key media. Most regrettably, because of our current funding shortfall we do not have the necessary means to be able to help them and, that is just so wrong when Factnet is doing so much good for so many without any fees for the 6 gigabytes of cult healing information downloaded monthly!

It is now up to you. You have used Factnet to help yourself or your friends. Factnet urgently needs your financial help to stay online, to continue to help cult victims in the most need and avoid having to impose monthly fees for all discussion board users...

Make your tax deductible donation to Factnet by going immediately to http://www.factnet.org/donation.htm and selecting the online or other donation options.

Factnet and its staff thank you for your helping us hold the intention of supporting cult victim education and for your urgently needed financial assistance at this critical juncture.

Sincerely,

Lawrence Wollersheim
Factnet Director
www.factnet.org (http://www.factnet.org)


(Factnet is an IRS approved tax deductible, 501(3)(C) nonprofit charitable organization.)








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[mcmstaff78]

I've gotten the same thing. You know, I've been on a ton of forums over the years and have never seen one threaten to go "subscription" before. If FACTNet needs $6000, it is *not* due to the forum. I've administered a couple in the past, though certainly not as big as this one, and it just didn't cost that much to run. Now, 6 gigabytes of transfer may seem like a lot, but you can get way more transfer quota than this, along with webspace, for about $20 a month.

Before I would respond positively to this, I'd like a little "transparency" regarding how this money will be spent, along with a current FY budget and financial report.

[lablady2]

I got it,too. Looks like we might need each other's email addresses.

[flo1151]

do you expect Phil B to work for nothing?

[mcmstaff78]

Flo: do you expect Phil B to work for nothing?

Me: Was this tongue-in-cheek? I don't expect anyone to work for free, but if they're asking me to support them, I want an accounting.

Also, tons of folks administer forums on the Internet for "free". I've done it in the past and suspect I'll do it in the future. I help out with a couple web sites "for free".

[flo1151]

78,
Who do you think Phil B is?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif.Most everything I say here should not be taken seriously. If it is I am sorry.

[flo1151]

78,
I do agree that 6000 dollars seems to be an inflated price to run this blog. However I have never run a blog. I will leave that to the blog professionals. And by the way will keep my money.

[lablady2]

Bonasso? Do I win some fuzzy slippers?

I have a story on mybrokenleg.com, along with a lot of other people. The owner of the site has never sent an email out asking for money. I guess if he did, my broken leg epic would go down the drain.

[mdillon]

correct Lablady, but since flo has already given away his pin, you can have minehttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/FactLogoSmall.gif

[lablady2]

Great. Now I'll have to figure out some strategic placement on the 38 specials. Make a note, Mr. Dillon: old woman do not wear lapel pins. They become belt art.

[mdillon]

you keep calling me Mr. Dillon and I will have to give you a detention or at least make you sweep the shop.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

btw, everybody, I got the e-mail also. In case of FactNet Breakdown everybody meets at Miltie's Treehouse and we'll go from there.

dillyeaux

[jbkrems]

I received the same e-mail as well.

I don't know if its a scam or not, I would think not.

[robert_unknown]

I think its a scam or a phishing mail... lets wait until someone from FactNet posts here to answer this questions.

[mcmstaff78]

Lab - Sorry, that whole thing went over my head. I didn't know Phil B., so I don't connect it that easily.

Sorry! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[wisedove]

i got the email, too...

[dust]

Forword got the email, but I did not. Forword says to host a sight with this much volume/traffic is expensive, and he thinks it's real.But it should be confimed with ghost in the machine.

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi All- I think that it is real; where else could we do so much good? Our work here was reported in En group leadership meetings. If a lot of people send a little...}

[ginger1]

Coppertree, everytime I get those things I send something LOL ! I want this factnet to keep on going. AND yes, thats for real.

[ulyankee]

Those of you who haven't been on FACTNet very long, yes, FACTNet does send emails like that every so often... it is really from them.

[ulyankee]

hehehe, I just thought of this. FACTNet also benefits if you buy books through their Amazon.com link. I've been wanting to buy the new Zondervan edition of the Purple Book to add to my otherwise complete PB collection. If I do it through the FACTNet link (http://www.factnet.org/donation.htm#Amazon), some of the proceeds will go to support FACTNet! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[ulyankee]

Also, if you want to make 100% sure a donation goes to FACTNet, make sure you do it through their website though and not as linked from an email. For example, I've donated through their Paypal link, mainly to get technical issues resolved - which has always worked in the past.

[robert_unknown]

can someone from FactNEt confirm this, please?
Then I will also donate something. But only then.

[mcmstaff78]

Well, honestly, before I would donate, I'd like to see some sort of financial report of expenses, income and expenditures of this 501(c)(3). The latest IRS Form 990 would be nice.

[ulyankee]

I was able to find their 2004 990 on Guidestar (http://www.guidestar.org). 2005 isn't available yet - those usually aren't posted to Guidestar until the fall of each year.

I'm not a FACTNet representative or anything like that though!!!!

[mcmstaff78]

Uly: I was able to find their 2004 990 on Guidestar. 2005 isn't available yet - those usually aren't posted to Guidestar until the fall of each year.

Me: Er, is an "Event Yacht" what I think it is? What kinds of events do they have on this Yacht?

[upcase20]

I recieved the e-mail too, but was suspicious because it did not come from the owner. After all
did he not start Factnet with the multi million dollar settlement he won.

[40days40years]

Look the info I got from factnet is worth thousands. Look at all the $$$$ we gave to the people running MCM/MSI/EN. Lets throw the boys at factnet at least 10$ bucks or so. Come on!

Bragging about not giving to people who created this forum is dumb! How much would they have to pay you to delete from your brain everything you learned here?

Support factnet and if you don't and you decide you want to post in the future it sounds like it will cost you a few bucks a month anyway so your boasting is in vane unless you decide not to participate. I have browsed other sites here about Bickle, Hammond, televangelists, Hobart Freeman.....etc.

If I throw thousands at someone I want them to be accountable but if I throw a few bucks at them? WHO CARES? -Lets help them out. Raaah raah shish koom bah, it is not just about EN/MCM it is about a multitude of jerk off groups that abuse.

[mcmstaff78]

40days - Why so hostile? I haven't written *not* to support them. But I've already jumped from one frying pan into a fire in my religious life. I already got burned twice, so if I'm cautious, if I'm careful, if I want to engage in the very type of investigation that FACTNet encourages, why shouldn't I? Asking people to give blindly is not the mark of wise stewards.

I still don't see a forum costing the type of money they've said they need to avoid going subscription. Like I said, I can set up a website with far more than 6 gig transfer rate per month for about $20 per, not including domain registration (though with some services they throw that in).

All I've asked for is a financial report. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Sorry if that offends, but that's the way it is.

[lablady2]

mcm: well said. Nothing wrong with holding people accountable for the way they want to spend our money.

As I tell my two-year old granddaughter: calling people "dumb" isn't nice.

[ginger1]

I already send some money in. I just do it in the base of trust. I got burnt many times too, but I guess I will never learn my lesson.

mcmstaff, you know you can send only a dollar to them. You don't need to send $10 or $5 . If these 10,000 members send in $1 each, it will help factnet. I like to keep factnet running but I am not going to send a huge amount in panic. Just whatever you felt that suffice.

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi Upper case and 78, I have read ,in other places that money is gone; it is costly to do so. Run this show, if you say no , you say no. The choice is yours. A part of freedom, You can or you can't; I am glad that it belongs to us. The choice.}

[40days40years]

o.k so how much is this place worth? The choice belongs to us, to bad when all you guys were in leadership you were not so noble. Do you know how many groups are here on factnet? and many of them are interconnected, you can't reproduce this gem. Yeah you can say no, the choice is yours whoopdeedoo, you can also choose to run your neighbor over with an SUV it is your choice , so what???

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi I agree with 40 , I have sent some funds to them. I think that it is money well spent; but that is one' choice.}

[40days40years]

Okay I can understand people saying NO to factnet for whatever reasons but it was who was saying NO that set me off a little. I have waited 20 years for this insight and the thought of me not having it because I did not want to cough up a few bucks every few months? it is inconcievable to me. I have learned so much.

[flo1151]

I went ahead and sent money based on the trust shown by some of the senior folks here. I sure hope factnet survives. I think it might be good for them to give us a little more financial info.

[lablady2]

40 days: I'm sure Factnet has been a big help to you. However, those of us who left MCM over 20 years ago had to arrive at these insights by ourselves. It was a struggle but it was also character building. I wouldn't trade the experience of praying, crying, journaling and growing that got me through a very difficult time.
The experience called for total reliance on God to provide healing for a broken heart.

Factnet is good but God is sufficient.

[lablady2]

40 days quote: "o.k so how much is this place worth? The choice belongs to us, to bad when all you guys were in leadership you were not so noble. Do you know how many groups are here on factnet? and many of them are interconnected, you can't reproduce this gem. Yeah you can say no, the choice is yours whoopdeedoo, you can also choose to run your neighbor over with an SUV it is your choice , so what???"

This is uncalled for. So, the guys here who were in leadership were not so noble? Who do you think you're getting all this help from on Factnet? Your getting it from the very noble former members of MCM/EN who spent not hours, not days, not months, but YEARS resolving their issues, personal, private and spiritual, from time spent in those associations. You are greatly benefitting from our experience, which former members have been humble and kind enough to share, and then lashing them with your cruel words.

You owe an apology to the people here who have been wounded enough yet spend time here helping others like you. And, until you do, you are persona non grata in my book

[flo1151]

40

I really didn't take offence to what you said. I have already beat myself up over the past more than anyone on this blog could probably do. No I wasn't very noble in the past, but I am trying to be more noble in the present. I think that I could understand why others might take offence to the way you said what you said, but I didn't. I think we all have had our fill of people tryong to coerce us out of cash. That seemed a little coercive.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
flo

[mcmstaff78]

I honestly still don't understand why it is so obnoxious to ask for a financial statement prior to donating to an organization. Someone wrote "the money is gone". Well, what money and where did it go? These are not accusatory questions, simply pragmatic and wise ones. You ask me to donate, fine, no problem - but in the very spirit of FACTNet itself, show me that you are good stewards of what is donated to you. It's just a little, simple lesson learned from being burned before. I would think of all people those who are here would understand that.

"Trust the senior leadership"? Isn't that what MCM asked us to do? On what basis? I don't *know* any of these folks and I don't know what they do with the money. All I've asked is be transparent, just as folks here have asked that EN be transparent. Again, what's so wrong about that?

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi 78, It is my understanding, that the man that founded this factnet came out of a very rough cult. He fought back hard to sue for the things that were done to him in this group and after he left. These monies were awarded in court because he was damaged,; he kindly gave this hard earned cash to start this, If you look up his name, you may see his story. He funded this out of his pocket. It is just of late, this year that requests have come forward. It is good to do a little home work; it always pays, so to speak.}

[40days40years]

Maybe you are right 78 about disclosure and I have been burned to in the past by ministries when it comes to donations/offerings. If my donation is only going to be a few bucks though I will tend to do the trust thing and not sweat it. It is not like I have not gotten a lot out of this place.

Factnet has done the sky is falling thing at times, maybe it is? Most message boards don't charge but most message boards don't have hundreds of differant boards (many related) going all under one umbrella. They use a lot of bandwidth up is my bet and there are a lot of lurkers to afraid to post but they are taxing the place. Part of me wishes they would charge a nominal fee for heavy users so they would'nt have to this. At the beginning of the year it was shutting down, coming back, letting you lurk but not post...etc. Very frustrating. Plus I don't want to lose these archives on all these groups.

Sorry if I offended you ex leaders I just remember how at times in the past we had the squeeze put on us from this ministry $$$ and sometimes it was painful and some of you helped to do that (yeah you had no choice and I would have done the same thing). To then quibble about factnet wanting a few bucks especially after you all got to reconnect and stuff and even be proud of the fact that your not going to give them anything and then to think about this place going away because of that ?

Lab I came to terms with Maranatha emotionally years ago. So even without factnet that part would have been taken care of. Praying and crying and journaling is great but that still would not have answered cold hard questions about the NOLR, eschatalogy, Bob Weiner ...etc. I wanted to know how this machine / beast works and why things were done the way they were done. To you at least this thing is more personal and rewarding since you got to reconnect with old friends. I don't have old friends here posting it appears that the earlier people in this thing were the most blessed by MCM. To me it is more like a machine.

[lablady2]

40 days: I am really curious about why it is so important to know how this machine works. I can understand from the point of view that no one wants history to repeat itself, but I was pretty darn sure when I left that I wouldn't make that mistake again.

For myself, I didn't need to know a lot of deep, yucky stuff about MCM and its origins. I just needed to know a couple of things:

1). Almost everything they were doing was contrary to what they were teaching and what the New Testament held as an example of a church.

2). The fruits of the spirit were absent in their lives and they were killing people, emotionally, spiritually, and mentally.

That's all I needed to know. Personally, I'd rather study and explore the better way to do something than to spend a lot of time exploring the "dark" side.

Additionally, people are free to decide whether to contribute to factnet or not. They are adults and it is their right. My days of being guilted, coerced, humiliated or shamed into giving money to anything are over.

I appreciate your apology, but not for myself. I was never in leadership. However, those in leadership (and their families) who have repented have paid a deep price for their years in MCM/EN and are worthy of respect.

[wisedove]

made my minimum contribution....taking on the faith thing like you, 40. Not gonna sweat a few bucks.

[40days40years]

flo: I suppose I should'nt of used the word noble but I find it is kind of ironichttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif.

It would have been fun if the the noble idea of freedom of choice in regards to giving had been brought up 25 years a go when I needed that teaching. Think of all those people sacrificing so Bob could do what he does in style$$$. Now years later when I find something worthy of at least a small donation, we have the freedom of choice debate. It's kind of ironic http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

I can understand this Nasso guy choosing not to give. Most of the people who post here I would hope would give. Would'nt it be great if Steve Murrell sent in a donation? the best money he could ever spend. Could you imagine what Phil and Rice would say about that? LOL

[flo1151]

40,
As I recall 25 years ago no one forced anyone to give. But they did guilt them into giving. We were pretty good at it. You still had freedom of choice but it was always associated with guilt. I do not want to give to anything with some sort of guilt over my head period.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

[40days40years]

OK Flo I understand and I appreciate that but I just remember how messed up it was at around the start of the year when factnet went down off and on for a month. I was very disapointed.

25 years ago was a few years before I joined and I know they guilt tripped people into giving but if you said I am not going to tithe I don't believe in it I bet there were a few church leaders that might expel you? Sorry Mike Godwin I am not going to tithe, would that work?

Lab I just want to know about what happened and why it happened, that is my nature. The dynamics of abuse and even gleaning stuff from something like Animal Farm or a history book on a dictator. Maybe it is a guy thing. I am curious, my curiosity is not as strong as Bill Macks but whos is?

[40days40years]

Lab also the puzzling nature of Maranatha/EN puzzled me and still does. The really good combined with the really bad, most places can't pull that off.

[lablady2]

40 days - "Lab also the puzzling nature of Maranatha/EN puzzled me and still does. The really good combined with the really bad, most places can't pull that off."

Oh, I disagree. Lots of place and people pull that off every day - in the corporate world, in politics and in religion.

It is difficult to understand how a person can profess to be one thing and not be that at all. The fact that you can't fully grasp it is probably a good thing; it's not in your nature.

It took a few years of growing up to understand that some people can actually look you straight in the eye and lie (and maybe even kiss you - see Judas). In fact, it was our innocence and good nature that allowed it to happen to us, to be deceived, and that's what those kind of people count on: that decent people won't expect other people to behave indecently.

I wonder if that isn't part of your quest, to understand how that happens. It happens because some people value things like status, money, and power above all else. It's difficult to accept, but I eventually got it.

[40days40years]

Yeah Lab your explanation is definantly a big part of it. I understand Bob being messed up and chocking that up to something wrong with his brain it is just the rest of this thing. It is kind of like trying to nail jello to the wall.

I know there had to be some deception on my part but I do think God was there more then 84 does for instance (how can he not be? when you have young sincere believers trying to please him). I don't know Mike Godwin but I was told he was a true believer and it sounds like he was genuinly commited to the Kingdom of God. I met other true believers like this and am still wondering how they on a personal level can be such sincere Christians and yet be so utterly supportive of somthing that was in many ways not Christian? That's confusing too, comprehending it. Maybe that is where EN gets it's real power from, the true believers? I don't know.

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi 40 there is book by, Eric Hoffer, called 'True Believer', that may be helpful. I think there is a part of us that gave into the seduction; that wanted to believe that this is the answer, what we are looking for, so to speak. Dylan talks about it in his songs also.}

[40days40years]

thanks I'll write that down now.

[lablady2]

40 days: I fully accept my responsibility for being a part of Maranatha. It takes two to tango.
And that's one reason that I can only blame most of the leadership as much as I am willing to blame myself. It's simple psychology: you were getting a need met or you wouldn't be there. That doesn't mean that the need was a positive one in your life. When that need is met or when you realize that the need is not healthy, you leave. That's just my opinion.

I had an extremely chaotic childhood. There's no doubt in my mind that I was looking for absolutes and boundaries. When that (positive) need was met and my negative needs were identified (the excessive need for approval and acceptance), I was ruined for MCM and I was ready to go. The problem with MCM was that they didn't WANT you to get better or to grow up. They needed to be the controlling parent. But, there's no job for leaders unless there are followers who are willing to support them.

In my opinion, the first step to putting all this behind you is figuring out what YOUR part in being a willing participant of MCM/EN was (and you were willing. No one had a gun to your head. You could have left anytime because others did and lived).

You really can't fix the leadership of MCM/EN; you can only take responsibility for and fix yourself.

[nicknak]

Hi ya'll!! Just getting the updates...

I got that e-mail, too. I didn't open it because of possible viruses..thought it might be a scam.

[flo1151]

nick,
It might still be a scam but I took 40's word for it and sent money.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[40days40years]

ll2 I had this debate with Tikey about our responsibility but I really felt the presence of God when I became a christian there. God did meet me there in a sovereign way and at that second I would have been resisting the Holy Spirit. For me it was not simple psychology at least at the start maybe years later when I got tired of having my commitment hijacked. Lab my Mom is unbalanced and my chilhood was rough but the presence of God is the presence of God.

We all have differant experiences you talk about being ready to go and I can see why need for approval kept us in. I know that if I was you and Bob had said: stop crying if you want your child to live I would have quit very quickly after that.

[lablady2]

4D (my abbreviations get shorter as I come to an end of this topic).

I didn't mean to imply that MCM was Godless. I have a few special spiritual moments there as well. I understand the attraction and the spirit that drew you there. However, the
control/discipleship/leadership was an issue from the getgo in MCM, at least back in my day. I'm guessing you encountered that aspect pretty quickly.

So, after your salvation experience and when the abuse began to show up, you stayed. Do you know why?

Please, don't feel like you need to answer. It's rhetorical.

[40days40years]

I needed deliverance was one reason I stayed also I was afraid of walking out on God if I left plus not fulfilling my destiny.

Yeah I had problems with MCM from the beginning but somehow I figured that the presence of God there meant that God was giving his seal of endorsment on this thing. I knew Bob had problems but I thought God would use Maranatha inspite of Bob.

[40days40years]

flo if it is a scam I will shift blame to jrj and hold him responsible that is what Bob W. would do and I learn fast here. Just kidding thanks for helping out my favorite message board.

How much does it cost to run a substantial message board anyone? Speak set up the reformation station for free? but I have a friend who's friend owns and operates a substantial message board for motorcyclists in a major metropolitan area with hundreds of members and it costs him a grand a month and factnet is far larger then that site. My bet is that scared lurkers check in to this place enmass. There are a lot of hurt people out there from groups much larger.

[dust]

Forword who has experience with this sort of thing, says to run something of this size is substantial money.

[lablady2]

Does anyone know how many registered users received the e-mail? I'm just curious.

I, too, would like a simple financial accounting (how much DOES this cost a month to maintain?) and where the finances go. That's not unreasonable.

50 users X $10 = $500
500 users X $10 = $5000
5000 users X $10 = $50,000
50,000 users X $10 = $500,000

?

[40days40years]

According to that email factnet would also like to be able to help out some of the leaders from some of the worst cults out there who are ready to bolt and it sounds like spill the beans. That is kind of cool I wonder what groups they are talking about? They probably can't say.

[annelewis]

The Simple Living Network (www.simpleliving.net/forums (http://www.simpleliving.net/forums)), another forum I visit, says that it costs 9 - 12K a year to run.

[lablady2]

The number of registered users is 10,000. I assume that's how many got the e-mail.

Thanks, anne, for the info.

[dust]

Thanks Anne for the tip. The simple living board has claimed so far 61,800 posts. Fact net has claimed 300,000 posts. Wow.

There is also some good information at their ezine. I'm not sure how to post a link. I need to get myself up to speed on these things.

FACTNet Ezine

[mcmstaff78]

I looked at simple living. Honestly, I'm not sure how they calculate how much it costs. I couldn't find a breakdown, but I didn't look that hard. I guess if you actually have to pay someone to administer/code the site, that can run the cost up. I confess that all the forums/websites I've been involved with I never charged myself a fee or paid myself a cent.

Once again I will assert that the cost of webspace/transfer bandwidth is really marginal. I am truly interested in what other costs are involved in running these sites.