Are we at FactNet lying

[robert_unknown]

If you are here, because You are told from Your leasdership, that at FactNet people spread lies against EveryNation, I want to encourage You, to do Your own research here on the board and in the WWW.

You will find that people have posted communiques where EN deals with the issues like the Fetchel, Daniels and even the Bonasso scandals.

Communiques that YOU should have been given by your church leaders. Communiques that have been hidden from the EN members, and have only been sent to your pastor.

If we post lies here, then this communiques are lies.

Sadly they are not. Sadly the situation is as bad, as iut gets described here on this forum.

We are people like You, who have put much effort, much energy, much money, much time into our EN church.

Many of us have been abused verbaly, spiritually, souilsh, financially.

THATS the reason we are here. Thats the reason we are posting.

Do not be afraid to do your own research. Do not be afraid to ask your pastor serious questions. You have the right to do so.

And then draw your own conclusions.

May God bless You. And help You.


edit:
Q: Why are your pastors and leaders hiding facts about scandals from you?
Q: Why are you not allowed to look into the books?
Q: Why are communiques hidden from you?
Q: Why are Bonasso, Daniels, Brooks NOT in the apostolic leadership of EN anymore?

Ask questions. Do your research!
Jesus himself was big enough to handle critisism, and he encouraged people to question what he said, to test Him, to search for truth, and to draw their conclusions. He never said "dont touch the anointed one" when they came to critizise him!

Q: Why are your pastors so eager to avoid questions?

[gilligan]

Hi robert, I agree that since the leadership has a habit of watering down the scandals, the members have to initiate their own confirmations. Instead of genine reform and unconditional truth, the EN/VCF leaders habitually resort to hunting down the whistle blowers.

Many members are disappointed in their leaders simply because of the lack of open or honest communication regarding the scandals. Naturally, the EN/VCF members perceive it as cover-up and the EN/VCF leadership has no right to blame them. No matter how many Scriptures are used to justify "gossip, bitterness, submit to your leaders, etc." scripture can never be used to cover-up falsehood - it's manipulative and self-serving.

There are explainable reasons why the EN/VCf pastors cannot speak openly.

One, their careers and salaries are tied to their behavior. Sometimes to the extreme extent that their identities are tied to EN/VCF. Apart from EN/VCf, the abusive leaders really do not have identities.

Two, the EN/VCF leaders are not mature to handle organizational complexities. Sometimes to the extreme extent that they lack the humility to objectively address the issues.

Third, many EN/VCF leaders are sincere servants that have no idea, at all, about the laundry list of scandals. These leaders genuinely believe that if you serve the movement, is it equal to serving God. Strange as it may sound, I don't target these types of leaders in my postings (regardless of how misled they can become). These types of leaders are sincerely naive and well-meaning and they obey instructions very well. Sadly, these are the ones that cannot make a difference and they also have no voice.

Fourth, in EN/VCF, the ones that are capable of making genuine reform and repentance are the few top leaders and the big tithers that support them.

FACTNET posters like us, should consistently emphasize that it is the EN/VCF leadership's responsibility to unconditionally volunteer the exposure (and its remedies) of scandals. If they can't, then how can they call themselves leaders.

[daisy3600]

If you are afraid to even ask a question there is something wrong.

I can remember wondering to another member why we NEVER saw any accounting of the church budget. Nothing. She asked was was repremanded by leadership for asking.

Every other church I've been a part of has printed out a general budget for the quarter. My EN church did not. Questions were discouraged and that's not right.

I challenge those who are attending an EN church to ask your pastor or assistant pastor why they don't print out a general budget or why Phil Binasso isn't in leadership anymore.

[robert_unknown]

"I can remember wondering to another member why we NEVER saw any accounting of the church budget. "

here the budget got faked! at least the vrsion, that was shown to the church. there have been entries about support that ie I should have received, but i never got ONE single cent. and thats only ONE incident, that I know.

My friends how asked me about this where quite SHOCKED about the fact, that this happened. They have seen the fake budget (is was actually more an overview powerpont presentation, no in detail budget) and there have been positions about support that never happened.

(Message edited by robert_unknown on August 25, 2006)

[philiprosenthal]

For those who are interested, some of the communiques robert refers to are posted here:
http://everynation.proboards102.com/index.cgi?board=documents

In terms of the issue of truth, certain posters sometimes make speculative allegations on FactNet. These are dangerous, because sometimes they turn out to be true, sometimes not. Maybe this is what the EveryNation leaders refer to as lies. I have tried my best to research everything as carefully as possible and challenge the people concerned according to Matthew 18 process to verify truth before posting. I would encourage others to do the same. But EveryNation doesn't have any forum where questions can be asked and answered. They refuse to answer most correspondence and even to give meetings most of the time. When they do interact in processes, their response is mostly counter-allegations and threats. Therefore, there is not a lot of alternative other than posting on FactNet. People put together pieces of evidence and that way, they build up a picture of how seriously wrong things are in the organisation. A lot of scandal information first appeared on FactNet; then later a sanitised half-story appears in their internal leadership communiques. But they seldom to inform their members of the whole truth - and so as long as that is the case, I think they will keep coming back to FactNet to find the truth.

[robert_unknown]

For instance:

In Europe very view people know that Phil Bonasso and Rice Brooks are not on the apostolic board anylonger. Nor do the know the reasons or the result of the audit, that said that Bonasso was overpaid by 66% and Brooks by 30%. No one has a clue about what this really means, and how much the guys are making.

This informations aren´t made available for the church members. Even despite the fact that these things are communicated to the pastors via communiques and during leadership meetings, the local pastors do NOT give this informations furhter.

[philiprosenthal]

In view of the topic above, I would encourage those who state speculative ideas to state explicitly what is fact and what is speculation to ensure that people can differentiate between the two.

In response to Roberts post. Yes, most of His People Cape Town knows nothing about scandals elsewhere in the world. The newer people I am told don't even know about Paul Daniel or even who he was. I am told people get into trouble even mentioning his name.