Are we the Maranatha EN conscience

[40days40years]

I think we are. Right is right, wrong is wrong!!!

[john_r_jones]

I was just sitting on the couch this morning thinking about honesty, that true spirituality is honest, simple, and true. Had I known this years ago I would have seen the foolishness I engaged in and had allowed others to push me into.

When we are indoctrinated into a way of thinking we merely filter our outlook on life through the values and ideals of another. We become our un-selves, we begin to live a lie, and we begin to believe a lie that God is incapable of doing His will through us. I'll say that again, we believe a lie that God in His sovereignty is incapable of doing His will through us. Thus we disbelieve our consciences and mistrust our inner voice even though that is how God speaks to us and through us.

All manner of kooky stuff arises from this doctrinaire manner of living that is rigid and suffocating. We view this as an antidote to our sinfulness, our behavior shapes our destiny we're told. Somehow we must come to realize that our destiny shapes our behavior. "Those he foreknew and predestined to become the Sons (and daughters) of God." Or the reality that Jesus has invested Himself in us as individuals, "Jesus being the author and finisher of our faith will complete the work He has begun within us."

When confronted with the parents of a gaggle of children the bone tired and world weary Jesus didn't give them a group hug, at patronizing gesture of Machiavellian magnanimity with a pat on the head; He took them all in his arms and blessed them each one in turn, children were considered to be a nuisance in His time. His approbation of childlikeness not childishness was a consideration of the fact that we don't need to earn our keep, or justify our existence to be allowed space in His kingdom.

One of the most damnable hellish lies we're told by religion is this that we're a hairsbreadth away from condemnation, from failure and ostracizing by God. This Jesus who told of compelling complete strangers to attend a wedding they weren't invited to has a grasp that is broad and mighty and not given to caprice. In His words blessed are you who don't measure-up who are poor in spirit, who hunger and thirst after righteousness because of a dearth of it in your lives for you will be filled!

John

[john_r_jones]

Sinclair Lewis could've written a tome of War and Peace dimensions had he known these guys. "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

John

[40days40years]

Well John I probably should have left out the right is right, wrong is wrong part it sounds so preachy, MCM/ENish and self righteous, oh well I am what I am. It just occured to me when starting this thing (or maybe God told me?) I don't know, that somehow on our better days in this corner of cyberspace this place is about having a conscience.

In regards to your post I understand Jesus accepting us as kids because Jesus loves the little children but as adults after we have dropped the ball for decades and knew better? Just got to trust God I guess.

[flo1151]

john.
profoundimento.
flo

[john_r_jones]

Well 40/40 not to over simplify but Jesus trusts the Holy Spirit to do the work of leading us into all truth that includes our finding out we are incapable of doing this Christian thing in our strength. What the essence of Christianity is or isn't is self sufficiency, it is about relationship with Jesus and each other. The unfaithful steward was commended for his shrewdness in making friends of fellow debtors and easing their burdens. We as well are comended for easing the burdens of others, of reducing their accounts because we realize our poverty, our need, our unfaithfulness as stewards ourselves. The beauty of the Gospel message is that we in our sinfulness dovetail nicely into God's desire for redemption and fellowship.

Well I've run-on as usual.

John

[speakword2004]

John Jones. You have the biggest dickhead in history for a president. Facism came to America at 9/11.

[lablady2]

Wow. Was that necessary?

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font> Hi
Walking in where angels fear to thread, he, he. If one was a Calvinist, I think, it could be said the God wanted us to have our current President. The Word tells us to pray for our current leaders.
}

[formermaranathapastor]

John- Your posts above are beautiful in their wisdom and humility.

Thank you

[dust]

Speak and all:

Careful of the strategy of the enemy here. He'll have us fighting each other with that fiery dart and on 9-11? Touchy topic! Do we really need to display that to the world?

Preaching...Let's not be afraid of that word. We may walk humbly, but we can still tie our shoes right and stand up straight. Right is right! Wrong is Wrong! When did we become so soppy sensitive that we have to apologize for what we know to be true! And I'm the girl here!

[ginger1]

And going back to the topic, Maranatha / EN has a conscience ????

[john_r_jones]

Dust,
not to be rude but apparently the gist of my above post about honesty might ahve been missed? Opinion management strategies of Satan or the Satan of self interest are a greater peril to me than Speak's terse post. I've found I have been obsessive about other's opinion's about me for instance so I seek to put myself in a better light to gain a favorable response to shape your opinion of me. I don't see Jesus doing that in the Gospels, His regard for others' freedom kept him from managing His public persona. And in my opinion yes the world needs to see our touchy topics and how we resolve them, otherwise we appear phobic and artificial. But I could be wrong.

John

P.S. My great fear personally is to intimidate you or anyone else with my opinions, good intentions carried out in a beligerent manner is at the heart of Maranatha/EN and possibly our commander in cheif as well, for whom I pray diligently. I was on a speakers dais for one day with secret service protection and caught an ever so slight sense of that world and decided I wanted nothing to do with it, and to pray for those so engaged.

Thanks again!
Me

(Message edited by john r. jones on September 11, 2006)

[40days40years]

speakword thanks for that message on the 5 year anniversary. I think Bush showed a lot of restraint. What do you think would have happened if a similar attack had happened in 1951 vs 2001? So far no more attacks and it's 5 years later. Americans suffered the bombing of Beirut, our embassies, the Cole, the first bombing of the trade center and we did nothing really and the attacks kept coming now they stopped except for those islamic fascist attacks in Madrid, London, and Bali. You know maybe Bush is right at least when it comes to fighting terror.

[40days40years]

John very insightful stuff lately you said: but Jesus trusts the Holy Spirit to do the work of leading us into all truth that includes our finding out we are incapable of doing this Christian thing in our strength.

40/40: That does seem to be the underlying theme of mosts of your posts and I am getting it more but it is one of those concepts that christians give lip service to but really don't act like they believe it.

Dust that is a good point about not being wimpy and making a stand for truth but this place is kind of a double bind kind of place not so much with pointing out EN flaws though. It's like speak the truth but not to strongly like Elijah would or you are judgemental. Then someone will chime in an basically tell Elijah to just chill they know your opinion already on that matter let it rest. Then someone will say your narrow and just like EN I have made up my mind on this thing. I have seen it happen on several differant subjects. It kind of hard not to be sensitive. It's like tolerance means not being tolerant of the intolerant which is pretty easy to do really but sometimes I am viewed as intolerant. It's like what john said next thing you know everybody is managing what they say so they can insure their liked or they storm off with the truth (and they may have it) and write this place off. Yeah that was confusing I got to fly out to TN and have this man pleasing demon taking care of.

[dust]

40, Yes, I know exactly what you mean.

[dust]

To John:
And, allow me to comment about the control on this thread. There are unwritten rules and subtle name calling.
For the record, I am not phobic, artificial, or dishonest. And what I said was not in self-interest.

If you're going to say something to me, just come out and say it. You spun my words into something negative, and attacked my character.

I did NOT deserve your comments.

[lablady2]

Maybe speak is/was just having a bad day. We all have them.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the anniversary of 9/11 always unnerves me. I have to limit how much I watch and listen to the unending, heartbreaking retelling of one of the worst days in American history. I spent weeks crying after 9/11 and this day pulls me toward a negative and dark place each year.

So, maybe tomorrow we can put this anniversary behind us and begin again with renewed hope for better things for all.

[john_r_jones]

Dust,
I haven't the foggiest notion of what you're talking about. I don't use double speak or spin people's words, as to your character it stands on it's own I suppose regardless of lil' ol me.

John

[upcase20]

Thanks for the mention of 9/11.

[40days40years]

Yeah, there are unwritten rules at this place. Maybe it is just a human condition. There definantly were unwritten rules in MCM/MSI/EN. In fact I am watching the ABC show called: The Path to 9-11 - and that show is getting me mad. You know why? because that show is all about unwritten rules, the dozens of unwritten rules that allowed those terrorists to murder Americans enmass because we did'nt want to offend and they used our own civilization and rules against us. Maybe this is not popular to say but the truth is people all over the mideast loved 9-11.

john, speakword threw a grenade into this place as a non American on 9-11 (he broke an unwritten rule, maybe he was drinking) and you rebuked Dust not him, comphrende?

[40days40years]

john first off thank you for responding to my little thread here. I don't want to tick you off but you said: Dust, I haven't the foggiest notion of what you're talking about. I don't use double speak or spin people's words, as to your character it stands on it's own I suppose regardless of lil' ol me.

Now writing is an imperfect science and I tried to talk to someone once with the written word and they went crazy and then some old guy said never talk about stuff like that in writing it does not translate, but alas this is a message board so we have no choice.


You said: Opinion management strategies of Satan or the Satan of self interest are a greater peril to me than Speak's terse post.

40/40 translation: When Dust tried to gently correct speakword for the verbal grenade on the 9-11 anniversery you responded with that. Your equating Dusts efforts with the Opinion management strategies of Satan. Now I don't believe you meant that but that is the way it reads unless I am missing something.

john then you said at the end: And in my opinion yes the world needs to see our touchy topics and how we resolve them, otherwise we appear phobic and artificial. Hence, Dust was trying to put a blanket on an over agressive speakword on the 5 year anniversery of 9-11 that EQUALS = phobic and artificial behaviour on the part of DUST.

Now I don't believe you meant that, O.K and hence the what are you talking about part but that is the way it is read on the net.

So lets all be man pleaser friends because I know we are. ---- Thanks and God Bless

[john_r_jones]

Well let's see, opinion mangement for starters I don't personally think of our president in the terms speakword has stated, I think however his perspective is a salient point. How we in the U.S. are viewed in the world matters, at least to me. I think a significant portion of our foreign affairs relate to our perceived efficacy as a nation and a world power. How adroitly we use that power is an issue internationally, not to mention domestically. No subtle undertones here Dust just an observation of understanding how we're viewed in the world-frankly we American's luxuriate ourselves in ignorant bliss.

Secondly the Satan of self interest is that of brushing-up our image as a person to appear gentle and meek while using manipulation and intimidation to get our way. This while appearing to be negotiating and cooperative, again no subtle accusations against you Dust. I see the ploy used in EN and other places to get their way or else. I am guilty of being manipulative in serving my self interests and getting my way or else and seeming to be all nicey-nice, I must enmphasize ME!

Phobic and artificial, again not directed at you personally Dust but at the church, we paper over our differences and the world sees that and thinks gee whiz where's the reality, again in my opinion.

Finally I think a repersentative form of government which we have equates a basic mistrust of government of which dissent and debate form an essential part. Our Vice President used similar deprecating foul language about a foe on the floor of the senate earlier this year. Though I wouldn't call our President that I would fight for the freedom for someone to use that language, hell you probably could use that language about me.

My point which apparently was covered in fog, is that had someone years ago said hey, quoting Speakword you're a @!&amp;$head, in Maranatha or EN we might have salvaged the whole mess. In short doing the right thing for the wrong reason, or the wrong way isn't right.

Dust you might ask speakword, or others with whom I've disagreed with about something, I either E-mail them or pick up the phone and call them and discuss what I disagree with them about, I don't submarine them on the board, that's bullying people, intimidating, and manipulative. (Oh if you knew how manipulation makes my blood boil!) The last thing I ever want to do is silence someone, marginalize their opinion, or denegrate someone for the sake of winning an argument. Many's the time I've had thoughts that ran counter to someone else's here and I thought, "Well they need to explore that line of reasoning more fully and see where it leads, I don't want to choke that off with some prosaic rejoinder." My earnest hope is to promote freedom, growth, and wholeness from which we can in turn experience, some for the first time in their Christian lives, and encourage them to share that with the world. Sometimes I get to watch someone do that and not like me, or not agree with me, good for them.

John

[football7]

FYI, the Path to 9-11 was directed by David Cunningham. That is Loren Cunninghams son of Youth With a Mission. I personally found it hard to watch, ( sad at what happened ) but mad at the beaucracy of our govenment. Once again the ones out on the field saw the situation for what it was but those in authority didn't. sounds a little like MCm/EN, huh ?

[speakword2004]

Sorry, I really meant to such that King George II was a blockhead.

(Message edited by speakword2004 on September 12, 2006)

[miltietoast]

I see 9-11 in history as a repeat of Pearl Harbor. The story lines lay on top of each other.Examples ,Who knew, who made big mistakes with 20/20 hindsight,who is covering up what,could this have been prevented,or was it allowed to happen. In slight defense to speakword,the 9-11 changed our govt(maybe forever) like Lincoln changed our govt forever during civil war.I will have class later if any one cares

[miltietoast]

I see 9-11 in history as a repeat of Pearl Harbor. The story lines lay on top of each other.Examples ,Who knew, who made big mistakes with 20/20 hindsight,who is covering up what,could this have been prevented,or was it allowed to happen. In slight defense to speakword,the 9-11 changed our govt(maybe forever) like Lincoln changed our govt forever during civil war.I will have class later if any one cares

[lablady2]

I personally don't care what others think of George Bush. I can't control Mr. Bush or his image. God knows that I would change a lot of things about politicians, things in my country and even myself if I had a little more ability to do so.

However, there are some unwritten rules on the board, and I think they are the same unwritten rules we try to observe off the board - just things like sensitivity, making room for cultural differences, tactfulness, etc.

I don't have a problem with Speak having an opinion or expressing it. But, for the record, 9/11 is an emotional timebomb for all Americans. Every night this week I will go to bed trying to forget the images of people who jumped to their deaths from 96 stories above ground. Haunts me and sickens me still. And it has nothing to do with politics; it has to do with little boys and girls who lost their moms and dads that day.

So, in the future, perhaps a little restraint from political comments on a day when so many are in pain might be a gift from a friend.

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font> Hi Speakword
In the view of history, I would need to say it was King George III, he was the one that peed purple. It is true, he did. He lived 1738-1820 ; ruled 1760-1820. It is said , George never got over losing the colonies, and other small battles.}

[miltietoast]

on topic- a seared conscience is tough to crack,the Holy Spirit has little success in this area

[40days40years]

Excellent point football7 those in the field in regard to 9-11 had to get permission to act and they did not get it. In regards to our chult a healthier church would have allowed those in the field who saw problems in the ministry the right to listen to the Holy Spirit and implement changes. Instead problems were voiced to those in authority and then lost in a black hole. I am starting to think that MCM/MSI/EN never wanted to fix the problems anyway. 30 years of dragging their feet and they are suppose to have the ear of God or should I say God is suppose to have their ear?

Yeah Miltie any insight you want to give us on 9-11 would be great. Our secular govt. has done a better job fixing problems to protect us from terror/abuse than MCM/MSI/EN has done fixing it's problems over 30 years. That is pretty sad and pathetic.

You know everybody our W does have lot of ancestory going back to the royal family.

[john_r_jones]

In parallel to our theme one of the legit issues we raise is not of conscience but of a mirror. Tom Ridge in a recent interview stated that an old friend of the U.S. dating back to WWII asked about our course at present as a nation he was a mirror, a concerned friend. Another gentleman formerly in charge of security for the folks a t Foggy Bottom and the CIA stated that a "Baseball cap" may not be the deriguer course of action for the Mideast.

In a similar vein the "one size fits all in reality one size fits none" facts of life we seek to speak to our "friends" in EN.

I suppose I think about how painful watching a docu about 9/11 is, I contrast that with the ongoing hell in the Middle East that is their reality at present


John

[jonmoseley]

To answer the original post: Yes, you are SO important. The future of Christianity rests upon you. You are the sole repositories of absolute truth. Without you, the world will fall into darkness. You need to make all people see the beautiful light that you shine. It is all up to you to set all things right. Nobody can do it without you. GOD can't do it without you.

THE CURTAIN GOES UP: What snake's voice is speaking these appeals to PRIDE?

[wiseasaserpentgentleasadove]

Pride?
Look in the mirror.

[dust]

Jon:The future of Christianity rests upon you.

Dust: The future of Christianity rests not on us or Every Nation or any person. It rests on Christ. Praise the Lord and give glory to God, for no man or church or post or newspaper, or burning of bibles, or false teaching, or anti-Christ can defeat the purposes and plans of God.

So many organizations believe they are the WHITE HORSE for Christ, saving the faith, propelling the faith, defending the faith. I tend to get on a white horse myself from time to time. But, it is CHRIST who saves. It is Christ who is Head.

If you come to factnet seeking to exchange bitterness, you'll find it. If you come to factnet seeking to heal your bruises and find truth, you'll find it. If you come to factnet seeking to save others from believing lies and pointing them to Christ, you can do it. If you come to factnet for finding others that were lost in the faith a long time ago and you want to reunion, you can do it.

If you want to find FREEDOM in Christ, you can find that here too. This is what Factnet did for me: It gave me a place to rest, regroup, find answers, share my experience, help others, wrestle with truth, get FREE from a distorted theology and get alone with GOD and hear from GOD, and see CHrist not man as head of the church.

It's all in what you want. It can make you better or bitter. That's an individual's decision.