Identiy Stolen [Archive]

dust

10-22-2006, 11:59 PM

Here is Wildwood:

Dustie, I wrote the bottom half of that paragraph... I did not write the top half... My words start with ...there's no bitter harvest here to reach....or around there...

My fear is that I have A WORM OR TROJAN MIRRORING or somehow because jonmoseley was able to do two posts at 12:01am on two different threads last night...that there's a way to have "grabbed" or maybe even gone back and edited...

I'm in Corpus Christi, that's been on the board before. I also recently downloaded some access software to an off site chat room.... My plan is to simply wipe my computer hard drive.

Please post this on the board for me. And also this:

Last night, before I knew all this stuff, I sent an email with a specific request to forward a safe address to a friend...I still think its safe.

AND I tried to post this & this was how I find out I couldn't...:
Good Afternoon...Coppertree if you happen back this way, I am praying for your friend and wondering if possibly he had a best buddy named Billy once...and my heart is heavy. But, even if the person is different--they are well known to your heart; I rejoice in the sureness of their Faith and that the Lord is Redeeming this time.

dust

10-23-2006, 03:15 AM

It looks like Matt Hatter and Dillon cannot get one eitherhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif

dust

10-23-2006, 03:31 AM

Hi Everyone.
So far here is the list that can't post.

Wildwood
Forword
Matt
Dillon
Dove
Krems

40days40years

10-23-2006, 03:49 AM

Had their identities stolen or can't directly get to Factnet?. To get on factnet, go to google search for an obvious google hit like, bill mack NOLR or Rice Broocks every nation. Click on one of the articles brought up, your in. If your ID is stolen? thats a lot worse.

dust

10-23-2006, 03:59 AM

I think outside of wildwood, they can't get on.
Their user name and/or password is invalid.
What do you make of this?

dust

10-23-2006, 04:03 AM

I think outside of wildwood, they can't get on.
Their user name and/or password is invalid.
What do you make of this?

Add Vanguard (ginger) to the list.

This MUST BE a factnet issue...

I don't recommend anyone posting the email they register with.

wildwood_

10-23-2006, 05:25 AM

I do not know why but it is working now and I've reset my password... but it makes me very nervous. I ran a bunch of scans and deleted things... but I don't know what did what...or why... and the screen I'm typing on doesn't look exactly the same. But I'm using a new browser.
If its rambling, its a wildwood....I'm tempted to copy this post off line to make sure it stays what I type...oh..yes, I will do that for a few days...

wildwood_

10-23-2006, 05:43 AM

I send a letter of inquiry to the moderators. Stating exactly what had happened with me and the problems of my "hybrid" post too.

I do not know if Wildwood is "safe" yet... Hope this was just an odd way to spice up a weekend...
Thanks for all the help Dustie. I think maybe your report made it through quickly.

coppertree

10-23-2006, 05:55 AM

Hi All
A time ago , this note came on the screen saying that my password is invalid has come up, as I noted above. I would re-type my name and password and I would come back , but one ever to my knowledge was my message hi-jacked. I use firefox,this may help. I am so sorry for everyone had problems, but to me it seems more.}

wildwood_

10-23-2006, 06:08 AM

Copper, it's working for me now but I don't trust it...Dustie reported it...and the screen looks different... I sent the moderator a message asking how a message could get crossed...makes me think I'm losing my mind (not that I'm against that totally) but I'd rather drive myself to it... I did keep a partial copy of my post in word as first draft and it wasn't that top part but was the bottom...

Sigh... Hopefully J2t will tell me how to make sure I have no mirror site running, although 40/40 just mentioned on John's Board that he was originally acessing a non-factnet site that said it was factnet yesterday I think...so maybe we were routing through a bogus factnet... or maybe the board was just too stressed and got way twisted.....

I just don't know. I'm going to make copies of what I post from now on just so I can satisfy myself that I'm not blanking out...next thing you know I'll be calling Coast-to-Coast and telling them I've seen A littlecritter that runs around scaring people here in Texas....I HAVENT.

Coppertree, are you OK? And did you see my question about your friend? I'm so sorry you had to deal with jonmoseley so alone today...I tried...

forword

10-23-2006, 06:11 AM

OK, this may just be some FactNet network problems. After being locked out for several hours, I am now able to post again.

BTW, I tried sending an email to ghost in the machine and it got bounced back to me.

coppertree

10-23-2006, 06:21 AM

Hi Wildwood,
Thank you for your care for me, it means a lot. I will there to help my friend, we live near each other, thank you. He is not from Ky.He just found out, I think that it will hit him hard when he comes back, so I convent your dear prayers...}

wildwood_

10-23-2006, 06:30 AM

Copper, I know someone who is very well connected in cancer research with a Pharmaceutical Company. Has your friend any additional options he'd like explored? My friend's father died of Lung Ca at age 43 when we were at UK, unexpected and sad, glorious because His Dad knew He was headed home...but hard on the family, harder on the son, who was told...it was a lack of faith that prevented the miracle of healing...and an unforgiven sin his Dad did at 14 that stood in the way of being resurrected by Billy.... sigh sigh sigh. But my friend went on and has been at the cutting edge of his mission to fight cancer...as I understand it.

40days40years

10-23-2006, 06:33 AM

wildwood I don't think we were routed through a bogus factnet site the other day, the messages are here and posted Jon was just having problems unless he was harassing on purpose with multiple posts, (who knows he was mighty angry?). Today when I used the legit factnet address I was routed to another site that was not factnet and did not pretend to be factnet.

wildwood_

10-23-2006, 06:39 AM

Oh I'm sorry 40/40 that's how rumors start. I miss understood what I read. I'm still not sure then how you got to a non-legit factnet but good, I'm glad you knew it wasn't. Sorry that I miss understood the sequence of events. My mind is totally blown...I cannot figure this out...I think it's my PC infected, with a worm which would shadow me, but that would not impact other people trying to post on the real board... So.. I haven't a clue. I'm just hoping it's fixed and gone and won't be back. Sorry.

40days40years

10-23-2006, 06:43 AM

Everything is fine no reason to be sorry.

wildwood_

10-23-2006, 06:51 AM

At the moment I'm sorry for being sorry and sorry for breathing and possibly sorry for typing or sorry for hitting the send key twice or wondering if I picked up a virus somewhere or just plane old sorry that I got out of bed this morning...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif I'm fairly certain the problem does not lie within me, nor with the stars, but quite possibly a vague figure of a jonmoseley but then it could've just been his lucky day to come to the board yesterday!!!! Do you think I should start to sharpen an Izmel just in case??? Someone's going to surely qualify for it???? LOL

40days40years

10-23-2006, 06:56 AM

Well if he comes back use it, caution the board is reverting back to its old ways.

jbkrems

10-23-2006, 07:15 AM

testing...

j2theperson

10-23-2006, 10:49 AM

My account got temporarily suspended after I changed the email address in my profile. Apparently, the procedure is that when you change your email address FACTnet temporarily deactivates your account then sends an email to that new address with a reactivation key. But, for me, FACTnet suspended my account but never sent me the email. However, now suddenly my account is working again anyways.

I must admit, I don't understand what the point is of deactivating a person's account when all they want to do is change their email address. What possible purpose can that serve?

And, what is up with FACTnet? It's such a buggy, vulnerable system. Why don't they update it, get new software, something, anything?

j2theperson

10-23-2006, 12:24 PM

Heads up everyone...your FACTnet profile is viewable to everyone, which means that unless you specifically click the button to hide your email address, anyone can access your FACTnet profile and see what your email address is.

To hide your email address from view do the following:
Enter the area to edit your profile Click "preference" Check the box that says "Do not display my real e-mail address with my profile" Click "Save profile changes"

mdillon

10-23-2006, 12:40 PM

ok this is a test run this morning to see if all's well.

well whaddya know----drat, I was hoping it was some sort of evil plot. mattie cancel that order on the superhero costumes before the check clears. on second thought forget that--its almost halloween. what say?.....no, mattie, how many times do I have to tell you I called the Rice Broocks mask first.

dilly

ulyankee

10-23-2006, 12:50 PM

testing 1 2 3

yay!!!! My mic is back on!!! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/talker.gif

ulyankee

10-23-2006, 12:53 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

My account got temporarily suspended after I changed the email address in my profile. Apparently, the procedure is that when you change your email address FACTnet temporarily deactivates your account then sends an email to that new address with a reactivation key. But, for me, FACTnet suspended my account but never sent me the email. However, now suddenly my account is working again anyways.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

That's what happened to me as well - I changed my profile yesterday afternoon. But all is well now. Thanks dust, coppertree and everyone else for keeping us informed.

mdillon

10-23-2006, 01:04 PM

for what its worth I did nothing to my profile, although I was intending to, and got hijacked anyway. ulyankee this is what happened to me last year that temporarily ran me off

ginger1

10-23-2006, 01:09 PM

Hey I got my name back !

wiseasaserpentgentleasadove

10-23-2006, 01:11 PM

ahhh, the wild rambler is back. I was ready to fight yesterday. Ask Dust. (not with YOU, wildy!) In the SPIRIT...hehe

Dilly
I did nothing that day to my profile, either. THe thing is, something was going on besides just a factnet glitch. some were able to post and others couldnt' access their profile or post due to messages that said,'your username or password is invalid." Ho-hum...someone was trying to change our passwords, i think. How did someone use Wildwood? Please.

glad it's all fine.

matt_hatter

10-23-2006, 01:56 PM

Dang. And I thought my factnet days were over. Still thinking though, the new turn on this board is making me ill. Scary dude. Stay away from me. I am too old and too crusty to be nice to you.

freedom43

10-23-2006, 02:00 PM

I didn't change anything and could not get on last night -- it said my username and password were not valid. I think it was a glitch affecting lots of us. That or jonmosely caused it to blow a gasket -- though he might think it was God shutting the mouths of his enemies.

another_brick_in_the_wall

10-23-2006, 02:16 PM

i encountered the same glitch a few times yesterday, i.e. username/password invalid, a few ghost in the machine episodes.

things were very strange this weekend.

BTW: the posts over the weekend were mine, fortunately.

(Message edited by another brick in the wall on October 23, 2006)

matt_hatter

10-23-2006, 02:26 PM

There is only one solution to jonmosely. All must ignore him at all cost. Let him continue to bombard the treads. Ignore him. He will eventually go away and back to his world of monkey punishment.

freedom43

10-23-2006, 02:50 PM

Yeah -- I need to stop. I just can't help myself.

And, someone needs to tell Jon Moseley that some jerk is impersonating him on FactNet and making him sound like an arrogant, obnoxious, judgmental person by attacking people and making unfair, broad generalizations about people who post on FactNet.

freedom43

10-23-2006, 03:40 PM

mcmstaff78

10-23-2006, 04:09 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

mattie: There is only one solution to jonmosely. All must ignore him at all cost. Let him continue to bombard the treads. Ignore him. He will eventually go away and back to his world of monkey punishment.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Yep, after my initial response I've typed out several responses to additional posts and then just deleted them. No point. If you feed the trolls they will keep coming back.

freedom43

10-23-2006, 04:25 PM

Thing is -- if this guy really IS Jon Moseley, I knew him. I remember him as being a little odd perhaps (who isn't?) but not a jerk. But, who knows what 20 plus years in a controlling cult can do to someone.

(Message edited by freedom43 on October 23, 2006)

mcmstaff78

10-23-2006, 04:35 PM

Freedom - challenging one's worldview and opposition to what one perceives as a core construct of one's reality is generally an extreme stressor. Psychologically we tend to react in the same way we do to with any trauma or loss. Our first tendency is to deny it and then to get angry. I think this is what we see in this poster's writings. Certainly it is enough to make any of us act differently then under non-traumatic circumstances.

matt_hatter

10-23-2006, 04:47 PM

"challenging one's worldview and opposition to what one perceives as a core construct of one's reality is generally an extreme stressor."

78, you are right, and it is this kind of thing that eventaully causes depression, hostility, and ultimately shortens lives.

Life is too short and too good to be chasing religious windmills. Take a long vacation to a beautiful Carribean Island, moseley. Contemplating God's beautiful beaches will do you a world of good!

40days40years

10-23-2006, 08:31 PM

Hey this is a must READ (http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51579). Things that make you go hmmmm! Similar types, both are attorneys and have the same style. Start up the black helicopters. ?????

40: Now just to let you know I tend to think the twin towers came down because jumbo jets filled with massive amounts of fuel hit them and the flimsy brackets holding up the girders gave way but the point is look at how this guy interacts with others.

(Message edited by 40days40years on October 23, 2006)

wiseasaserpentgentleasadove

10-23-2006, 08:38 PM

Hi, all. Freedom, i truly believe perhaps someone who has something against Jon Mosely (if the real one is a lawyer) IS impersonating (or at least using his name) here. I got that impression immediately Sat. whenever i came to the board to catch up. I knew things were off, odd, etc. and just sensed the person posting might not actually be jm.

freedom43

10-23-2006, 08:50 PM

Interesting. Maybe -- but it seems like it would have to be someone from or very close to the DC EN/former Maranatha church -- based on some of the things posted. He seems familiar with events that happened, Mark Caulk, Brett Fuller and names some of the less well known members/former members in other threads. Names I remember and recognize.

Then again, there would be nothing stopping me (except integrity) from picking up my old church directory from 1992 and picking a name and setting up a user ID and going to town.

Again, I wonder why anyone would do that. Even if someone had something against him -- what could they gain from posting under his name?

wiseasaserpentgentleasadove

10-23-2006, 08:52 PM

who knows. sabatoge? these were only the initial impressions i got as i tried to catch up sat. night and as i read. he could be reading and laughing his butt off because of all the stir he's caused, but things happen for a reason.

ulyankee

10-23-2006, 10:08 PM

40/40, that's why I asked what I did, to see if the two people (or online identities??) were the same. It appears that someone posting as Jon Moseley who writes for WMD has engaged in similar tactics on other message boards.

wiseasaserpentgentleasadove

10-23-2006, 10:14 PM

40/40
thanks for that post. I'm NOT crazy.

Immature at times, but not crazy.

coppertree

10-23-2006, 10:17 PM

Hi All
The post from 209.188.43.187
Is shown as Challote, NC.}

dust

10-23-2006, 10:24 PM

copper how do you do that?

coppertree

10-23-2006, 10:28 PM

} Hi Dust,
Google ip locator

40days40years

10-23-2006, 10:49 PM

Hi, wisedove sometimes I am crazy http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif but hopefully not about the big stuff.

Hey Jon if your reading this click on EN/BLOG, their waiting for you. I personally like Tiks earliest blogs at the very bottom of that section, he has a bunch of em.

Dust, usually those tools work but I have used someone elses computer who is saavy and checked my location and it said I was posting from the other end of the country. But it is cool I agree.

wildwood_

10-24-2006, 12:49 AM

And check your computer at home for bugs... I do not know how, I cannot prove it, I can only state it... My posts were messed with... sentences & some odd words dropped in and changed... that disturbs me...because the ip routing showed "me"... odd to me that I could still post almost up to that point in time when I discovered the changes and then couldn't post at all and had Dustie make an announcement.... buggy bothers me...the Ghost in the Machine is one thing but this wasn't Casper... Although, I do think I typed something that did reference jonm as making clownish statements (the one where he said Dovie & MCM &Miltie wanted JBK exterminated for not conforming) but there's something off about the top part of that post too... My opinion for what it is worth is the board was hacked & tampered & then the hacker pulled out... So, perhaps I'll be in agreement with jonmoseley on black helicopters...although they usually aren't black but a dull gray...and shockingly silent... http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif I'm still here and I'm ME and I am not completely crazy...yet... (somebody set a timer....)

wiseasaserpentgentleasadove

10-24-2006, 01:32 AM

wildwood,
the timer is running...I'm joining in on timing myself.
dove

robert_unknown

10-24-2006, 07:47 AM

OH MY GOODNESS...
i am back in again! was waiting for an activation key for days. but now it works without...
hehe... perhaps it was better that i was not here. this jon guy has pressed some buttons though...

wiseasaserpentgentleasadove

10-24-2006, 01:14 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Hi, wisedove sometimes I am crazy but hopefully not about the big stuff. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
O.k. perhaps I have to agree....http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gifguess I fall into this category, too.

jonmoseley

10-24-2006, 05:16 PM

Geepers, creepers, I can't believe the conspiracy theories above. I have not been able to get on until this morning, largely (I think) because I made the mistake of asking for a password reset before reading the warning not to do that, because of days of delay.

But without me, I think you guys (read the above) have said it all.

What wacky conspiracy theories. It is the same as your accusations against EN. Loose facts. Wild conjectures. Unsubstantiated nonsense.

A badly-done, and badly-overloaded bulletin board goes down one night and you guys are all ready to spin imaginative tales of intrigue and conspiracy.

Could it be that you have done the same thing with your supposed experiences with MCM and your accusations against EN?

Because I was there, I know that that is what you have done.

EVEN AT THE TIME I would listen to sermons, and then hear people describe them later, speaking out of their paranoia and imagination. EVEN AT THE TIME in the 1980's people would imagine what was not said, as I observed even then.

These things simply did not happen. You did imagine them. You imagined them because your insecurities and fears were so strong that you heard what you were afraid you might hear, not what was said.

I saw that occuring at the time, back in the 1980s. You would imagine things that are simply not true, because of your own hang-ups that had not been dealt with. And I have more hang-ups than you do, believe me, only different ones. "My hang-ups can beat up your hang-ups." to plagiarize a joke.

However, I SAW this happening even AT THE TIME in the 1980's. You imagined a whole lot of things that never happened and were never said.

And here it is again. One computer glitch and you have all but written a spy novel full of more intrigue and mystery than any Tom Clancy clunker.

mcmstaff78

10-24-2006, 05:25 PM

Jon, if you're really a lawyer you know that eyewitness evidence is often contradictory. So, yes, people's memories could be faulty. However, it is just as likely that it is *your* memory that is faulty, especially since you seem to display an almost pathological need to prove EN (and MCM) blameless and have taken all sorts of uncalled for ad hominem shots at people here. Yeah, some people engaged in some pretty wild theories about what was going on, but that in no way invalidates their (our) memories of either MCM or EN. *I was there* also, and Tik's remembrances match mine to a "t". It is painstakingly obvious that after having spend what must be close to half your life in this cult-like environment, you are severely co-dependent with your "leaders". Some people get off on abuse, whether to themselves or to others around them.

pilgrim

10-24-2006, 09:08 PM

Hi j2theperson,

You wrote on post 456, Heads up everyone...your FACTnet profile is viewable to everyone, which means that unless you specifically click the button to hide your email address, anyone can access your FACTnet profile and see what your email address is.

To hide your email address from view do the following:

Enter the area to edit your profile
Click "preference"
Check the box that says "Do not display my real e-mail address with my profile"
Click "Save profile changes

I have followed your advice and I have also changed my real name for Pilgrim in my profile, but how do you view other people's profile anyway?

I thought that the information in my profile was private and not public for everyone to see.

ulyankee

10-24-2006, 09:28 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Geepers, creepers, I can't believe the conspiracy theories above.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Wow, that's saying a lot given your previous work critiquing the 9/11 conspiracy theories. I certainly didn't think we ranked up there with the Scientists for 9/11 crowd (or at least not all of us, hehe). I thought that merely we were collectively being cautious and maybe overreacted a little given FACTNet's propensity for "bugginess" - though I'm still glad I changed my profile so that it wouldn't get hijacked like Ginger's was a week or so ago.

All kidding aside, being careful online is just good common sense, imho.

(Message edited by ulyankee on October 24, 2006)

j2theperson

10-24-2006, 10:24 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Pilgrim: how do you view other people's profile anyway?

I thought that the information in my profile was private and not public for everyone to see.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I don't know if there is a direct way to view someone's profile, but I do know I was able to do so in a round-about way. I started by first viewing my own profile then up in the url replacing my username with the username of someone else. I was then able to view that person's profile.

pilgrim

10-24-2006, 10:52 PM

j2theperson,

Thank you for you prompt reply to my message.
I think that factnet should do something to stop this from happening. I do not think that it is right that anyone should be able to view another's person profile by just trying to replace their user name with someone else's user name in their profile.

ulankee,

You wrote, though I'm still glad I changed my profile so that it wouldn't get hijacked like Ginger's was a week or so ago.

All kidding aside, being careful online is just good common sense, imho.

You are absolutely right, what happened to Ginger was awful, I hope that it never happens again.

It is very important to be able to share information like this on the board to warn others of this risk.

coppertree

10-25-2006, 12:08 AM

Hi All.

UL , oh your post # 1106 http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

With much credit to Flo...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif
Thank I needed that,, and a little Dylan}

wildwood_

10-25-2006, 12:43 AM

Izmel, Izmel. Where forth art thou?? Oh, that's right it's suppose to be Romeo, Romeo... somehow, Flo, Flo just doesn't have the same sound.

Nice Halloween Decorations... Coppertree!

As to the other stuff...I noted on another thread that following the wisdom of a sigh, child, sigh...(I was 29, but I think I aged to 30 over the weekend). I kicked out NortonSymatecInternetSecurity and have given the lease on my computer pasture to a new tenant...who discovered broken fences & mended them and who also found vermin and pounded them into oblivion (ok it actually just said, more like infection cleared, files deleted, quarantine not required system cleared) Plainly speaking: The new scan did find something that was not suppose to be on my pc & ip intrusions onto my pc... I have no idea if related to the factnet issue re how my posts were messed with...maybe yes, maybe just something else to annoy me. BUT I'M Thankful to have had a reason to look harder & deeper... because they'd gotten past my security...don't when or how long. I've changed everything, everywhere...not email addresses since those are actually on encrypted servers and seem less vulnerable than factnets...I hope.

Recommend that all just upgrade pc security and avail yourself of the more intense scans available through whoever is providing your internet service contract or reliable and effective trial-tests from real-sites from real-software providers on the internet. That Kim Commando has some quick picks...

ulyankee

10-25-2006, 01:27 AM

wildwood, if you don't mind me asking, who is your new tenant now that you've kicked out Norton?

j2theperson

10-25-2006, 01:41 AM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

ulyankee: wildwood, if you don't mind me asking, who is your new tenant now that you've kicked out Norton?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I was the one who originally recommended she get some new antivirus software. I mentioned two programs...

Panda Platinum (http://www.pandasecurity.com/cj-usa/) was recommended to me by the computer tech who works on all my mom's computers. It is the program that I personally use, and I've been happy with it. The one problem I have is that occassionally it will shut off for no apparent reason and has to be started again...but other than that it has always provided me with good protection.

The other program I've heard about is Nod 32 (http://www.nod32-anti-virus.com/?src=gaw&campaign=nod32_1&ad=nod32-01-05). I don't personally use it, but I have heard it highly recommended by other people.

forword

10-25-2006, 02:10 AM

Or... just buy a Mac. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

j2theperson

10-25-2006, 02:44 AM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Forword: Or... just buy a Mac.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
Cultist. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lame.gif http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

maranatha1984

10-25-2006, 04:16 AM

J2
PleaseCheck your e-mail my friend and sister
and thanks for your response

Blessings
Tikie

j2theperson

10-25-2006, 04:52 AM

Tikie, I checked my email, but it's not there. I think I must have accidently deleted your email! Boy am I embarrassed. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif

jonmoseley

10-25-2006, 07:01 PM

MCMstaff78 wrote:
Jon, if you're really a lawyer you know that eyewitness evidence is often contradictory. UNQUOTE

MOSELEY: Actually in the law eyewitness testimony is considered "the queen of evidence." Yes, witnesses can give different accounts which is why it is important TO HEAR EVERYONE and LISTEN to all the different accounts.

So when one person in one church describes one situation, and I say "I never saw that" you can conclude that BOTH ARE TELLING THE TRUTH, but the problem was SPOTTY and NOT universal.

What you said is all the more reason to be CAUTIOUS before throwing accusations around.

I am not saying that EN is blamelss nor was MCM.

I AM saying that if you accuse Joe Bloe of something Joe Bloe did not doe I CARE ABOUT THE TRUTH.

Joe Bloe may kick dogs and cheat on his taxes and steal from petty cash at work. But if someone says Joe Bloe killed a cop, while I was having a business lunch with Joe Bloe across town at the time, I DON'T CARE IF I HATE JOE BLOE... I AM GOING TO TELL THE TRUTH.

mcmstaff78

10-25-2006, 07:17 PM

Eye witnesses may be considered "the queen of evidence" but it is also considered problematic and often is contradictory. That would be why DNA is being routinely used these days to clear people convicted on the basis of eye witness testimony.

Regardless, when enough people say pretty much the same thing, and one person comes along saying something different, well, I'm going with the weight of evidence, not the one who all of the sudden shouts the loudest and the longest.

sameo

10-25-2006, 07:34 PM

jonMoseley says:"Joe Bloe may kick dogs and cheat on his taxes and steal from petty cash at work. But if someone says Joe Bloe killed a cop, while I was having a business lunch with Joe Bloe across town at the time, I DON'T CARE IF I HATE JOE BLOE... I AM GOING TO TELL THE TRUTH."

NO one here is saying someone killed anyone...bad example. However, "animal cruelty, & cheating on taxes" are both pretty serious crimes.

There are children everyday who tell their own parent they are getting sexually abused, only to have the parent or guardian tell them they are lying. We've all heard those sad stories. The child is telling the truth only to have someone say they are lying, and it isn't so.

You are only ONE man, Mr. Moseley....and alot more people believe the spiritual abuses and control DID happen in MCM and EN, than not. "The proof is in the pudding." Everyone on this board here have many personal examples of why. Thing is I'm not compelled to tell YOU. I have nothing to prove to you. I'm not afraid nor bothered that you don't believe. I'm mostly amused at your passion. Are you sure Bob or Ricey didn't hire you-to come on here and try and ruffle our feathers? seriously. What's in it for you to try and prove them so right when everyone of us on here were personally controlled and verbally or spiritually abused. I hope it's worth your time, but you are NOT going to convince us that WHAT DID happen to us, didn't.

At most, this will only be a way for you to perhaps sharpen your bullying/debate lawyer tactics. (note: kremsy, and other lawyers, I'm in no way saying you ALL try and intimidate...but some lawyers clearly do-that's their job)

jonmoseley

10-25-2006, 07:39 PM

Actually, Sameo, according to this Board "THE PROOF IS IN THE *RUMOR* " which is not accurate.

The point is that if you saw something, I have repeatedly acknowledged that I ACCEPT your account of what you saw (unless I was there and know it did not happen at all).

However, I tell you what I saw.

So if SOME leaders in SOME churches acted as you describe, you have to understand that NOT ALL leaders and NOT ALL churches were like that.

If you saw something in City A and I know it did not happen in City B, what does that tell you? The church in City A was different from the church in City B.

j2theperson

10-25-2006, 08:25 PM

Tikie, I emailed you. As a matter of fact, I received your previous email--you were the one who didn't receive my response. Hopefully, it will go through this time. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

mcmstaff78

10-25-2006, 08:32 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Moseley: If you saw something in City A and I know it did not happen in City B, what does that tell you? The church in City A was different from the church in City B.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> But because it didn't happen in City B doesn't mean it didn't happen in City A. Also, simply because you didn't see it happen in City B, is not proof that it didn't. You just didn't experience it. When it comes down to it, Jon, you're whole argument is "it didn't happen to me so it didn't happen at all and y'all should just shut up". Could be you just didn't notice (or didn't want to notice). Could be that nothing you say here is ingenuous and you really are just a plant for current EN leadership. (Man, don't you just love conspiracy theories?)

Additionally, consider a person diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Now, the cancer may not have spread to the liver, but if left untreated it sure will. And no matter what, your body has cancer and you are sick.

(Message edited by mcmstaff78 on October 25, 2006)

sameo

10-25-2006, 08:33 PM

"Actually, Sameo, according to this Board "THE PROOF IS IN THE *RUMOR* " which is not accurate."

JM: You've picked the wrong person to say that to. I did travel in my ministry w/ Bob W-in starting these college campuses. I was at many, many campuses. I did see first hand most of them. I would spend time there at each of them. The only differences in the churches is that the personalities of the pastors would differ,(some were more laid back, other's loud and energetic) HOWEVER, the PROCEDURES were the same. There were SET procedures/rules/laws for the way we ran Maranatha churches. NO exceptions.(I was there to hear & see Bob W train these pastors right from the beginning)

Also, just for the record, no where to my remembrance have I blamed any local pastor for the abuses and control. I've only acknowledged this coming from BOb W, Rose, and Joe S.(and the leaders of EN) I only point to the top of the chain. That's where it starts. We only followed the command. Most of the local pastors were acting out of fear of being rebuked or kicked to the curb if or when they didn't comply. My husband and I were laid back in both of our churches until BOb W got wind of it, then we'd get rebuked and back to being legalistic we'd go. But that's not how we wanted to be. We preferred a pastors heart in ministering rather than a heavy handed way. The problem is that we weren't allowed to be who God made us as individuals. We were taught to be little Bob's. We acted from fear. Until we could no longer BE that way in good conscience. So we left. But again, I don't need to tell you-Bob knows all this. As for apology, or repentance....am scratching my head. When did they repent? was it in words only, or actions? I never got a personal apology. But I don't really want or need one.

wiseasaserpentgentleasadove

10-25-2006, 09:42 PM

Is this my sweet sameo? hehehe get on over to the rainbow thread, Perhaps we can still do our talk show Another View that we talked about a few months ago...I think it would be awesome. Man, how do we narrow the choices down to 4?!

robert_unknown

10-25-2006, 10:05 PM

Jon is putting his head in the sand...
PLEASE come to europe and ask EVERYONE in the churches here. more than 80% will tell you that they want to get rid of EN and they want to get out of it. 2 churches LEFT just the last 30 days. in another church nearly ALL people want to leave EN, but not the pastor! my church got destroyed because they didnt want EN.

and do you know why? becausemany of them have experienced the things that you can read here on fact net more or less.

people like you use the strategy of isolation. if ONE person comes up with a problem you would say, "well, its only YOUR problem, an isolated experience", if more people would come along, you would use the strategy on the group. if the whole church would have the issue, you would say "EN is a international and huge family of churches, and ONLY you as a church have this problem"...

now you come on this board and blame US for the abuse we have seen. you blame US for trying to work through it. you try to use this demonic strategy of shame and isolation on US.

Jon - you seem to understand whats right and wrong. I ask you to PLEASE contact the pastors in EN you know and talk to THEM about THEIR behaviour.

What would you say is the bigger problem for God.
- sheperds abusing the sheep for their enrichement
- hurt people running away, maybe bitter, maybe in pain, and trying to go on with live?

dust

10-25-2006, 10:22 PM

Robert, I share your sentiments and I think your analogy is good.....the psychology of isolation. It's only "you, and not systemic."

The overall problem with Jon, is that he comes with not sword of truth and a pot of mercy, but with broken glass from smoke and mirrors. It neither saves nor heals nor convicts.

Proverb 21:21
21 He who follows righteousness and mercy Finds life, righteousness and honor.

sameo

10-25-2006, 10:37 PM

Hey Dovey!! It's me Sameo!! gosh, no way we can only have 4---haha the more the merrier, right?!

thanks for asking me over to the rainbow thread. Nothing like feeling alittle love from a sista/friend. :-)

football7

10-26-2006, 01:53 PM

Thanks Sameo for your post about traveling. I also did a little traveling and help start several outreaches ( can't call them churches )
So ditto to all you wrote.

sameo

10-26-2006, 05:59 PM

Thanks football!! I appreciate your response. Yeh, you and I were at (at least) two of the same outreaches. I remember well. You always made me feel so welcome, and accepted. No kidding. You know when you've been traveling from campus to campus...under intense pressure... any sign of kindness from someone was so appreciated. You had alot of compassion, because obviously you understood. Plus, you're just cool! ;-)

I actually guess I should clarify we didn't 'start' college campus' ha Obviously. But what would you call it? Mar centers?

Anyway, thanks again football!!

miltietoast

10-26-2006, 08:37 PM

jon you must be talking about some of the ex-pastors on this board who treated you fairly. My personal experience is with Bob,Rice ,Greg and Phil a veritable hall of fame for charlatans.

pilgrim

11-05-2006, 07:39 PM

Earlier today I tried to log in factnet and I could only see the Morning Star/Every Nation thread, all the other treads were gone. Now all the threads are back.

Recently I have similar experience were I could only see 4 or 5 threads on Factnet and the other threads had vanished. In that occasion I was asked to take part on a survey about beliefs. I was told that the survey was anonymous but then they asked quite a few private details like my postode.

Did anybody else was asked to answer to a survey when log in to factnet?

jbkrems

11-05-2006, 08:44 PM

Pilgrim: I have not answered that survey, although I've seen the link you're talking about, and I really have just ignored it.

pilgrim

11-06-2006, 10:46 PM

Jbkrems,

Thank you for the information.

coppertree

11-06-2006, 11:18 PM

Hi Pilgrim,
I would be careful, as persons have tried before to get info. from us on this site. I doubt that it was from factnet, but you could ask them. There still is that trial going on, and the stakes are high.Have you given out your e-mail there; one that could be traced back to you?}

wildwood_

11-07-2006, 12:00 AM

Hey Pilgrim, I've not seen any survey when I've logged in...but my password keeps getting re-set... I am running a very aggressive pop-up blocker now...I'd even accidentally locked out a couple of my husband's supposedly safe Army "favorites"... Still, as Copper says... although it's a sad truth ..be careful. I truly hope there comes a day when we don't have to be...I didn't understand this until a couple of weeks ago... My Soul's secure in Jesus...but my PC is now a convert to Kim Kommando's Website....(and blessings to J2t for her wisdom too)http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

speakword2004

11-07-2006, 10:07 AM

The new internet Explorer has a phishing filter. It is worth downloading!

pilgrim

11-07-2006, 07:56 PM

Hi Copertree and Wildwood,

Thank you for your messages.

Like I mentioned before the day that they ask me to take part in the survey, when I connected to factnet, I could see only about 4 or 5 threads, all the others threads were gone and I was asked to take part in an anonymous survey about my beliefs.

I answered the first part, the questions were badly designed. For example one of the questions was: Do you believe that Jesus will come back after the millenium? I disagree because I believe that Jesus will come back before the millenium and the conclusion on the survey on that set of questions was that I do not believe that Jesus will come back. Another question was: Do you believe in a Messiah? But they did not specify which Messiah ie. Jesus? or an antichrist?. They also asked questions to see whether I support a democratically elected government, a king or another type of government elected by just a few people.

After the first set of questions they asked a lot of questions about myself, like my email address a friend's email address, including my full post code which meant that I would no longer be anonymous. I was stupid enough to answer some of these questions like my age and the city were I live. At this point I did not feel peace about this survey so I did not answer the second set of questions.

Did any one else come accross this survey when they logged on factnet? When I logged on factnet again all the threads were back. I have found the whole thing very strange.

Hi speakwork2004,

You said that, the new internet Explorer has a phishing filter. It is worth downloading!

How do you download it?

Blessings

Pilgrim

wildwood_

11-08-2006, 07:02 AM

Pilgrim, this doesn't sound quite right. Have you notified Factnet of this? And does anyone know if there's a board representative that actually "knows" who handles the board... Does Phil Rosenthal???

Internet Explorer 7 should be available for download from the regular window home page. And the tools are located under a little grey cog icon on the top right...phising stuff & setting all available by clicking on the "cog" and then selecting whatever you need. ALSO: Check out Kim Kommando's free downloads...she's a computer guru with her own Radio Show. Very practical advice.