Maranatha Promoted Religious Liberty

[jonmoseley]

Although I don't know where my copy of the Purple Book is, to which I never paid much attention, I did just find my copy of THE STORY OF LIBERTY by Charles Carleton Coffin, published in 1879.

Through the personal efforts of Rose Weiner, Maranatha Campus Ministries re-published this book in 1987. It is published by MARANATHA PUBLICATIONS and was heavily promoted during the 1987 Maranatha World Leadership Conference in Tarrant County, Texas, by Bob and Rose Weiner personally.

This book tells the story of freedom of religious conscience and freedom of religious belief, all the way through the Pilgrims, and explains the importance of individuals being able to read the Bible for themselves, the priesthood of all believers, and the importance of a direct relationship with God. It is the story of REJECTING religious leaders as intermediaries between the believer and God. It is the story of REJECTING any restraint on religious liberty.

And yet you make so many false and scurrilous charges on this Board. Here is proof positive of the Weiners teaching the OPPOSITE of your accusations.

I read on this Board that MCM was opposed to people studying, yet here is clear evidence that MCM was light years AHEAD of other churches in studying the roots of religious liberty and our American and Christian history, the emphasis on going back to original sources, on scholarly discipline, etc.

I remember as part of Maranatha participating in a multi-week course on American history in which we read from the original documents, such as Governor Bradford's diaries of Plimouth Plantation where the Pilgrims struggled to establish both life and liberty, and religious freedom.

Bottom line is your attacks are false, and knowingly so.

I am not sure how to provide a copy of this book, as I only have one copy, but I would be happy to show this MARANATHA PUBLICATION book to anyone who still wants to falsely attack a church based on incorrect statements and false "facts."

[40days40years]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[annelewis]

I've often wondered whether the emphasis on "American's Christian History", Luther, etc. didn't help facilitate the eventual implosion of MCM. Once people realized that they could (and perhaps should) question the abuse and control, the whole thing collapsed.

[40days40years]

Yep, you know the thing was not exactly run like a New England town meeting where you could stand up and debate things. You were just told the way it is going to be. In fact I don't see how Maranatha could justify the American revolution.

[pilgrim]

Mr jonmoseley,

Just a question Mr Moseley. If Maranatha promoted religious liberty like you said, why couldn't a man invite a girl to get married without going through the leaders and and having to obey them as if they were Christ because to disobey them was equal to disobeying Christ.

If the leaders told this man that this girl was not from God he would have to hope that they changed their mind, this might never happen or forget all about this girl and submit the name of another girl in the future in the hope that the leaders would agree this time.

I would be grateful if you could answer this question as I now believe that we should be able to go directly to Christ and no through the leaders to make a big dicision such as getting married.

[mcmstaff78]

Jon is so ignorant of history, especially the history of the Church, as to be stupefying. He also confuses what is presented for public consumption for reality. This is the very nature of hypocrisy. The leadership claimed to support many things, but in practice did the opposite.

Johnny - my eye-opening experience was my first staff meeting. Part of it was devoted to deciding on the partners that had been "submitted" to the elders. I expected a call to prayer; I even expected some prophetic word - I mean, that was commonplace in services. Here we were making decisions regarding peoples very lives and what did we do? Pray? Nope! Prophesy? Nope! We match-made. We discussed whether certainly people "fit" together and whether they would "look good" together. And then we voted. Yep, how super-spiritual we were.

No, hypocrisy, they name was Maranatha Christian Ministries.

[40days40years]

Jon was your marriage arranged? If I was a girl and found out that mcmstaff and friends hooked me up with you and did not pray about it? I would be sorely disapointed and maybe a little mad.

[robert_unknown]

people can write what they want. they can agree on paper what they like. what counts is how they live...
but i guess the Weiners have been misunderstood by everyone including the Ad-Hoc comitee... poor them!

[maranatha1984]

Where oh Where is Phil R when we REALLY need him. PHIL COME AND RESTORE ORDER TO THIS BOARD, JON HAS HIS HANDS ON THE CONTROLS AND THREAD ARE SPROUTING LIKE POISON IVY AFTER A FRESH RAIN IN ALABAMA

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>Hi All
We could use Phil and Bill M.!!!! They are probably laughing at us for trying to hammer sand.}

[maranatha1984]

Jon
I would suggest a good reading of 1984 by George Orwell

You remind me of the Proles in Orwells story who ACTUALLY thought that

The Ministry of Peace promoted peace (Whenin fact it promoted war)

That the Ministry of Freedom was actually about freedom (When in Fact it was about slavery)

That big Brother really cared about the Proles (when in fact he enslaved them)

Man you would have made in Good Soviet Citizen and travel in Stalins era

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font> Hi 84,
Yes I agree, about Orwells'book, on another thread I recommend to him, Eric Hoffer's "The True Believers"}

[maranatha1984]

Copper
A great read...what you hear and read is not what you get

[maranatha1984]

Copper
A great read...what you hear and read is not what you get

[matt_hatter]

by Bob and Rose Weiner personally.

This guy has got to be Bob. Nobody in their right mind could defend those two.

[osakadan]

The sad thing is that they are still involved in "ministry" and continue to sell those "bible" studies online. They should be ashamed and off working in McDonalds or as door to door salespeople. These people should not be involved in any church.

[ginger1]

Its one of the most stupid question given. If MCM did promote Religious Liberty, then why on earth did Rice, Phil Bonasso and most of the EN gang , ganged up on Bob Weiner and wants out ?

Jon are you saying that Brett Fuller, Rice Brookes, Phil Bonasso are a bunch of backstabber that they all agreed that MCM break apart for nothing ?

Is that the type of Apostle and pastors you wanted ??

[jonmoseley]

TO PILGRIM, who WROTE: Just a question Mr Moseley. If Maranatha promoted religious liberty like you said, why couldn't a man invite a girl to get married without going through the leaders and and having to obey them as if they were Christ because to disobey them was equal to disobeying Christ. UNQUOTE

MOSELEY: Read Derek Prince's book GOD IS A MATCHMAKER. You can find it at:

http://www.amazon.com/God-Matchmaker-Derek-Prince/dp/0800790588/sr=8-11/qid=1161643489/ref=pd_bbs_11/002-8060812-7710455?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books

You will learn (1) the concept was widespread and not limited to MCM, (2) the concept was a beautiful ideal in which GOD THE FATHER would hand-pick your marriage partner. There is no doubt that God did that and will do that again. The only question is whether God MUST always do the same thing in everyone's lives, which was the error. However, there is no question that God can, has, and does, and will hand-pick your husband or wife if you will listen to Him and pray and seek His wisdom. It is equally clear to me now that often God will NOT do this or will leave a number of choices open, and/or that the decision to enter into a relationship is so delicate a two-way street that all God will do is to maybe give you a nudge but the rest is up to you.

In any event, you are WRONG in describing this in terms of a man not being "allowed" to do anything.

The entire concept was that we had the HIGH PRIVILEGE of having a spouse CHOSEN by God Himself as a loving father -- GOD's PERFECT CHOICE -- as being BETTER than any choice we might make on our own. As a result, the idea was to WAIT until God brought two people together.

It was about God's PROVISION... not about what one was allowed to do.

Those who disagree would obviously have NO FAITH at all that God was going to provide... prompting my repeated questions as to whether complainers now reject God Himself and/or God's provision in their lives.

[jonmoseley]

GINGER1 once again exhibits the phenomenon that complainers here on this Board seem to be unable to listen or understand what is being said. That is frequently the product of a highly-intelligent mind, but a negative emotional state, in which your minds run far ahead of what your ear is actually hearing or your eyes reading.

There is simply no way to relate Ginger1's comments to anything that I said or intimated. Ginger1's comment is a mish-mash of ideas suggesting I said the exact opposite of what I said, if indeed there is anything relevant in her comments at all.

THIS FURTHER CONFIRMS that you "heard" in MCM or EN WHAT THE LEADERS WERE NOT SAYING or failed to hear what was clearly said.

I noticed this even while I was in MCM (and indeed generally in life,everywhere).

People have an amazing tendency to hear only what reinforces their prejudicies and to tune out that which does not fit the pattern they expect to hear.

So even while I was in MCM, people would make bizarre comments about what they thought was said, whereas the tape showed otherwise.


Although Ginger1 makes it tempting to try to respond to what (she?) has written, there are so many assumptions underlying her comments... again indicating the careless thinking involved in your criticisms.

Those who participated in meetings and witnessed the break-up DO NOT report what Ginger1 assumes to have happened. They report that over a period of more than a year if not longer the Board could not agree on decisions about governance structure, etc. They report that there was no clear reason why the national organization broke-up, but there was an inability to reach consensus.

Clearly Bob Weiner believed that he should tightly control the organization he created.

However, questions of religious liberty involve (a) encouraging people to read the Bible for themselves, (b) teaching the priesthood of all believers in which every believer stands before God directly without intermediaries, (c) freedom of conscience.

The accusations on this Board and TIk's narrative that MCM did not encourage scholarly study are downright laughable. MCM put all other churches I have ever encountered to SHAME on the topic of scholarly study, digging deep into Christianity's past and American CHristian history from original sources. The level of academic inquiry and scholarly research would embarass almost any other church by contrast.

[jonmoseley]

40days WROTE: If I was a girl and found out that mcmstaff and friends hooked me up with you and did not pray about it? UNQUOTE

I have seen absolutely ZERO evidence to support the hysterical allegation that anyone influenced any marriage from their own opinions rather than from hearing from God, or trying their best to do so.

GIven the track record of factual error on this Board concerning matters where I have first-hand knowledge, I believe I am justified in disbelieving such outlandish accusations as well.

Despite the "National Inquirier" mentality on this Board, I have never seen any evidence that anyone in MCM arranged any marriage, rather than responding to the leading of the Holy Spirt.

DO YOU REJECT THE ENTIRE CONCEPT THAT GOD CAN SPEAK TO PEOPLE IN THEIR LIVES IN TODAY's WORLD?

That seems to be what you are saying. You REJECT GOD as an active force in your lives today, and therefore you say that men -- rather than God -- arranged marriages.

[ginger1]

Those who participated in meetings and witnessed the break-up DO NOT report what Ginger1 assumes to have happened. They report that over a period of more than a year if not longer the Board could not agree on decisions about governance structure, etc. They report that there was no clear reason why the national organization broke-up, but there was an inability to reach consensus.

Clearly Bob Weiner believed that he should tightly control the organization he created.

===The governance structure has been the same for so many years. As you said, Bob Weiner BELIEVED that he should tightly control the organization he created.

I thought you said there is religious freedom ? and now you are saying that Bob Weiner wants to "control" the organization he created.
So there is no freedom ? Jon you are CONTRADICTING YOURSELF.

BASED ON YOU, YOU ARE NOT EVEN THERE . And now, you are the expert ?

[ginger1]

Did not Derek Prince repented of CONTROL and Legalism ?

Pilgrim is NOT questioning about if God can chose a mate for us. IT is about why does people have to SUBMIT the names of the person to the elders of the church ? And have it APPROVED by the elders of the pastors if they are their God's perfect choice.

[ginger1]

Its amazing, there are hundreds of people here who have posted and have witness , experienced the abuse , legalism and control and only you Jon are crying out there is no such thing.

Heck even Bob Weiner will disagree with you, Even Steve Murrell and Rice will disagree with you.

Bob Weiner repented and acknowledge of the legalism and control. Last year, Rice , Phil and Steve Acknowledge the legalism,control and abuse does exist even in EN and VCF. I personally spoke with one of the EN board and they themeselves acknowledege that they exist.

I think you are NUTS ! Not even the EN people , who are in there would even agree with you.

[robert_unknown]

"DO YOU REJECT THE ENTIRE CONCEPT THAT GOD CAN SPEAK TO PEOPLE IN THEIR LIVES IN TODAY's WORLD? "

God does. But the question is, does God speak to a stranger about MY personal life FIRST? Does he tell someone els WHO i am going to marry? The answer is NO! I have to take responsability on that. It is the life God has given ME. I will stand before him for my decisions, not my pastor.

So why are you defending such abstruse and abusive ideas like the strange and cult-like marriage policies of MCM?

We had ONE couple here in Europe, where a leader from EN (yes - they dont do this officially, but the ideas are still there with some people!) heared from God that they both fit together. they married, without knowing each other. Fact was, that the girl was behind the guy like a maniac, and that the prophet (it was THE EN prophet!!) knew her well. so they had "words from God" about this marriage beeing handpicked from God!

Needless to say, that all ended in a big mess, a lot of hurt and a divorce (from her side!!)...

it was a manipulated and unfair thing!

people like the Weiners are insane in their self-over-estimation. they think that they can hear BETTER from God than anyone else around them. thats not just arrogant, its unbiblical. its insane! I would like to hear the opinion of a psychatrist about this!

[40days40years]

Jon: They report that there was no clear reason why the national organization broke-up, but there was an inability to reach consensus.

40: Ofcourse there was a clear reason for the breakup, the majority got fed up with Bob, duh. Ofcourse there was an inability to reach consensus because guys like you and Phil B wanted to save the "thing". Come on think.

Jon: Clearly Bob Weiner believed that he should tightly control the organization he created.

However, questions of religious liberty involve (a) encouraging people to read the Bible for themselves, (b) teaching the priesthood of all believers in which every believer stands before God directly without intermediaries, (c) freedom of conscience.

40: Jon it does not matter what the leaders said they were the intermediaries. The mindset was that an ordinary believer hears from God occasionly but the leaders hear from God all the time and to question them was tantamount to questioning God. It was the freedom of conscience that caused people to leave or have a breakdown.

Jon did you like Maranatha better then E/N? or do you think there was no real differance between the two? Answer me those questions please.

[osakadan]

Jon, you need deprogramming if you think MCM's arranged marriages were from God. They were business arrangements.

That some of the marriages were successful speaks of partners determination and not to God having selected them for each other.

[pilgrim]

Hi ginger1,

Thank you for writing the following message.

Pilgrim is NOT questioning about if God can chose a mate for us. IT is about why does people have to SUBMIT the names of the person to the elders of the church ? And have it APPROVED by the elders of the pastors if they are their God's perfect choice.

Ginger you are right and I am still waiting for an straight answer to my question from Mr Jonmoseley, I think that it would be a waste of time to ask any further questions unless I get a satisfactory answer to my first question.

[ginger1]

Phil Bonasso even persecuted and slandered Tom Siratnak for even teaching the PRIESTHOOD FOR ALL BELIEVERS. I was even there.
Phil Bonasso DID NOT EVEN WANT THAT TAPE TO BE RELEASED.

[sameo]

JonMoseley....were you brought together in marriage by the 'dating revelation?'

[matt_hatter]

"were you brought together in marriage by the 'dating revelation?"

follow up question: Are you married to a Weiner relative?

[mcmstaff78]

Folks, I think Mr. Moseley has more than demonstrated the truth of the saying of Wise Solomon, "Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."
(Pro 9:8)

Perhaps it is high time we ignore him. There seems little profit in engaging him any longer.

[freedom43]

I also heard that there were times when names for marriage at the local level (for folks in leadership) had to be sent to Gainesville -- and with PICTURES. Anyone else heard that? I guess Bob &amp; co. needed to see if they "looked good" together. That supports the premise that this whole thing was of the flesh and not seeking God. Since when do we need pictures to hear from God?

I think God can bring two people together, but he doesn't need to go through any other person/people -- and He certainly wouldn't require photos to speak to someone.

[miltietoast]

bob would do any thing for God(I have to give him credit) along as he made money on it.i do not believe he ever gave a firm foundations book away for free.

[maranatha1984]

Jon:Read Derek Prince's book GOD IS A MATCHMAKER. You can find it at:

Tikie: Uh Jon, uh I hate to break it to you but Mr Prince repudiated this later on after he saw the damage it did.

Marxism was widely taught, Lenin taught it in a virulent form. Does that make Lenin okay because his teachings were not original?

No one claims that MCM was the only and original sociological cult...I wish that it had been...

[dust]

Mat: "were you brought together in marriage by the 'dating revelation?"

follow up question: Are you married to a Weiner relative?

Dust: http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[ulyankee]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

I also heard that there were times when names for marriage at the local level (for folks in leadership) had to be sent to Gainesville -- and with PICTURES. Anyone else heard that? <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

I have a copy of a Maranatha marriage submission. Yes, it included pictures, short bios and comments. It was submitted to the local elders and then after local approval was submitted to Gainesville for final approval.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Comments: Three months ago X came to me and told me that the Lord was speaking marriage to him. The Lord began to speak to him about Y one and a half months ago, and he released it to the Lord. Three weeks ago, he formally submitted it. Since then, the Lord has been speaking marriage to Y, but there has been no formal submission. The local elders bear witness with this submission.

PS - Please respond back to [elder's name] by [date] - Thanks.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Out of respect for the people involved I don't want to publicly say who it was, other than to say that it includes names many here may recognize but who are no longer in EN.

[annelewis]

ulyankee, yes if you had leadership potential, the submission went to the board. I don't think our submission had to be vetted but then we didn't have a pastoral calling.

[ginger1]

I remember those days, somebody (Y)submitted my name to the elders. I also remember that I told one of the elders that so-so(X) (my current husband) is God's will. I was rebuke. AND SHE SAID "HE IS NOT GOD'S WILL FOR YOUR LIFE ! AND YOU NEED TO REPENT !

After so many years , we met again here in the U.S. The former
elder said I thought Y was supposed to be your husband. That was supposed to be God's will.

[ulyankee]

annelewis, the people in question definitely had "leadership potential" and served in a leadership capacity in both MCM and EN. Not consecutively though. They were brought back into the fold so to speak some years after MCM's break up and after MSI was founded.

At the time of the submission, one had been involved in MCM for a year, and the other significantly less than a year, and were already overseeing the respective male/female staff houses, according to the marriage submission.

[pilgrim]

Ginger,

You wrote, I remember those days, somebody (Y)submitted my name to the elders. I also remember that I told one of the elders that so-so(X) (my current husband) is God's will. I was rebuke. AND SHE SAID "HE IS NOT GOD'S WILL FOR YOUR LIFE ! AND YOU NEED TO REPENT !

After so many years , we met again here in the U.S. The former
elder said I thought Y was supposed to be your husband. That was supposed to be God's will.

What happened to you was quite common in Maranatha a very similar thing happened to one of my friend in Argentina. The dating revelation was a real mess, so many people got hurt. I never got hurt so much in relationships in any other situation and on top of that they said that this ungodly system was designed to prevent hurts. It is is extremely painful when leaders have the power to decide who gets married and who doesn't.

[ulyankee]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Tikie: Uh Jon, uh I hate to break it to you but Mr Prince repudiated this later on after he saw the damage it did. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

In fact, some of the most poignant parts of Stephen Mansfield's biography of Derek Prince (btw, Mansfield is a prominent member of Bethel World Outreach Center, an EN church) are where Prince revealed how he personally was hurt himself, through how it damaged his relationship with his first wife, Lydia, and after her death, how his covenant brothers then rejected his decision to remarry:

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Later that evening, Derek explained that he now had to check his feelings for Ruth with his brothers in Ft. Lauderdale. "We've agreed not to make major personal decisions without consulting one another," he explained. "For that reason I'm not free to go any further with my commitment to you until I've spoken to my brothers. [. . .]"

It did not go well. When Derek explained to Basham, Simpson, Baxter, and Mumford what seemed so obviously God's will to him, they saw only problems. [. . .] The men would not approve the marriage.

[. . .] He thought seriously of casting aside the counsel of his fellow leaders and pressing ahead with what he believed was God's will. Yet to do so violated all that he had taught and all that their movement was built on. He relented. He called Ruth and told her what had happened. Later in Jerusalem again, he sat with her and explained all the objections the other men had. "I feel we need to break off all contact with one another," he explained, "except the contact we can have by prayer." Ruth agreed, and when Derek saw her drive off in a taxi, he felt a bit of winter return to his soul.

[. . .] Unable to let the matter rest, Derek continued to press the men to reconsider. Some of Derek's friends took this as a godly appeal. Others thought it was arm-twisting, an unrighteous attempt to wrest consent where it had not been given. (243-244)<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

He went ahead and married Ruth anyway, and one of the other members of the group stated, "That marriage was far from God's will. Derek wanted it and Derek got it, but it was never God's will. I think, for the discerning, time told the tale" (244). However, Prince continued to believe to the end of his life that it was God's will (245).

Prince's first wife outright called the Shepherding movement a "cult" among other things (223).

So here we have documentation, according to Mansfield's interviews with Derek Prince, that this founding member of the Shepherding movement repudiated exactly THIS practice, if not in word than certainly in deed.

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font> Hi Ul
I read this info. outside of Mansfield's book. It was common knowledge in the Shepherding movement. I recall Bob W. bouncing around in a staff meeting saying "Believe brothers for beautiful Godly wife. He will give you a looker!! Then he made fun of Derek Prince, about Lydia, saying that he could not believe that Derek married such an older woman. That God would do better for us in Maranatha.

Kathy Myatt, on Scott Ross site and posted here also, gave testimony , not unlike Tikie account of the inside in Maranatha. It is a first person account; it includes details of this custom of arranged marriages.

Photographs were part of the system from 79, they may have stopped them, Anne when you were in the system. Photos were on file. I tried to hide to no avail.}

[mdillon]

freedom-I also heard that there were times when names for marriage at the local level (for folks in leadership) had to be sent to Gainesville -- and with PICTURES. Anyone else heard that?

as ulyankee and coppertree have said, I too would attest to the truth here. Pictures were part of marriage submissions sent to the Borg.

The number of young ladies submitting my name fell drastically to zero once it was determined that I was not Nick Pappis. (jest)

dilly

[miltietoast]

Rae Ann and I were brought together under the dating revelation--- we had dated a few times before Maranatha came to down and both had decided on something similar to the dating revelation--so it was not hard for us to embrace no dating. Since i was not leadership material and Rae Ann was under the nose of Weiner ,I felt if man intervened I did not have a chance.I entrusted the matter to the Lord. Saying that if He put it together no man or ministry could stop it. The dating revelation was ripe for human intervention but I feel conceptually had merit

[miltietoast]

Rae Ann and I were brought together under the dating revelation--- we had dated a few times before Maranatha came to down and both had decided on something similar to the dating revelation--so it was not hard for us to embrace no dating. Since i was not leadership material and Rae Ann was under the nose of Weiner ,I felt if man intervened I did not have a chance.I entrusted the matter to the Lord. Saying that if He put it together no man or ministry could stop it. The dating revelation was ripe for human intervention but I feel conceptually had merit

[miltietoast]

Rae Ann and I were brought together under the dating revelation--- we had dated a few times before Maranatha came to town and both had decided on something similar to the dating revelation--so it was not hard for us to embrace no dating. Since i was not leadership material and Rae Ann was under the nose of Weiner ,I felt if man intervened I did not have a chance.I entrusted the matter to the Lord. Saying that if He put it together no man or ministry could stop it. The dating revelation was ripe for human intervention but I feel conceptually had merit

[matt_hatter]

MO: "I remember as part of Maranatha participating in a multi-week course on American history...And yet you make so many false and scurrilous charges on this Board. Here is proof positive of the Weiners teaching the OPPOSITE of your accusations."

Moses, this has been countered before by dilly, and I must state it again. You say we learned the lessons of liberty and religious freedom, yet the HQ was a mirror of Great Britian with the Stamp Act. It required the local ministries to BUY only Manarnatha goods! The damn Forerunners would arrive on your doorstep with a bill, whether you wanted them or not! If anyone resisted, Gainseville would crack down with their version of the Coercive Acts, which we Colonists labeled the Intolerable Acts. There's your American history lesson for the day!

So don't get in here and preach to this boy about religious freedom ad naseum, YOU WERE NOT ON THE INSIDE, by your own admission. I am sick of you calling all these witnesses liars when you are simply going on your own starry eyed experience! That is terrible 'lawyering'.

[mdillon]

miltie-The dating revelation was ripe for human intervention

and if there EVER was a ministry that excelled in the skill of intervening between individuals and the will of God it was Maranatha, myself guilty as charged. Ricey even told me one time before the single most important decision of my career and family (not marriage) that it was not necessary for me to pray, just obey the elders. I told him to kiss...well, never mind. The better Holy Spirit one could play in peoples lives the more promotions one got.

dilly

[miltietoast]

so you had crop failure and be came a woodworker and itinerant preacher? Interesting resume.Not much demand for those skills in this world.hmmm

[miltietoast]

mattie you little history buff . Let's have a Cookeville RR party in Feb. We will all dress up like weiner and nasso and pappis. BYOESAGJ(bring your own elevator shoeand gold jewelry)cufflinks optional oops today is halloween dilly can I borrow your gold necklace?

[miltietoast]

mattie you little history buff . Let's have a Cookeville RR party in Feb. We will all dress up like weiner and nasso and pappis. BYOESAGJ(bring your own elevator shoeand gold jewelry)cufflinks optional oops today is halloween dilly can I borrow your gold necklace?

[mdillon]

Let's have a Cookeville RR party in Feb

miltie I'll swap you the necklace for one weiner pinky ring. you know, I'm thinking that all in attendance in Feb. we could get covenant rings and pledge allegiance to The Ghost In The Machine.

dilly

[mdillon]

Let's have a Cookeville RR party in Feb

miltie I'll swap you the necklace for one weiner pinky ring. you know, I'm thinking that all in attendance in Feb. we could get covenant rings and pledge allegiance to The Ghost In The Machine.

dilly

[sameo]

Hey dilly...I just said earlier we could do a "Yankee swap." hehe

[mdillon]

holy smokes, miss kitty, this is brilliant. i'm gonna need help with the list, but here is what i've got so far:

joe smith tapes
redbook
forerunner
gold apostolic jewelry
blue blazer
leftover deli sandwich from '82 Leadership Lab
polyester shirt with wide collar from Praise Band member with western scenes. This is from the pre-Izod era.
Nine Steps to Leadership Packet (unused, mint condition)
Original seat cover from the ministry Cessna. slightly soiled from a lot of those hootah landings.

dilly

mattie, miltie, flo, et al, help me out

[lablady2]

my contributions:

1. a spirit of rebellion (you'll have to figure out a way to remove it first).

2. The original seat cover from a 1972 Vega SUPER SPORT (only the most excellent for MCMers), slightly soiled from dried breast milk due to those 17 hour drives to MLTS.

3. The Pink Book: "Non-Sharp and Lovin' It."

4. My collection of Laura Ashley midi skirts and little satin ribbons neckties for the blouses with Peter Pan collars.

5. My autographed copies of personal prophecies which have never come to fruition.

[osakadan]

lol....I've never had a blue blazer since those days...shudder

[mdillon]

good to see you reformed, osakadan http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

oh lablady, you jezzybayul you. if only you could remove #1 on your list then #5 would all reactivate. c'mon, there is still time for you to be the first woman apostle to outer Boogey Doogey

dilly

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>Hi All,


Hi Dilly, I want one of those rings. I promise never to do that again, ie Maranatha again......lolol Then today came:
Early church turned into a Hagin fest ,what happened my to my AOG, used to be ok.. but things have changed .Now I feel like I am living in a Dylan song.. The main message was discerning stuff in people!!!! Some took notes in a group of about 1500.}

[sameo]

Dilly &amp; Labby! HAHAHAHA Now that's funny!

Hiya Coppertree!

[lablady2]

md: The spirit of rebellion has not responded to "conventional" methods of removal. No matter; I've become pretty attached to it. In fact, I think it may just be part of my warped personality.

Jewelry? Who the heck could afford jewelry? I sold the only good piece of jewelry I had while in Boulder so I could pay a bill. I think I got $20.00 for it. As I recall, I paid the bill and had enough left over for a Peanut Buster Parfait. In those days, I probably thought of that as a miracle. Today, not so much. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif