NEW ZEALANDany Kiwis or Aussies

[sunshinesaint]

HI ALL, HAVE NOT BEEN HERE IN A WHILE.
I went back into the church and have finally left again - praise God it took me too many years to work out that i was faking it and then all my time in Morning Star /every nation I was at the most immature that I ever have been as a Christian - I was superficial and I know realise that GOd is a soft and sweet God - His voice is soft and not loud and boisterous. I was lucky I married an "outsider", which awas why I initially left and then stupidly came back...thinking that I could never be a "good enough Christian" anywhere else....it took me all those years but I am glad that I have been set free!!!!! YIPEE

I was wondering if there are any Kiwis or Aussies on here as I see stax of logs from Americans and South Africans but none from this area of the world...

although I can fill a few of you in:

Sean and Trudie Morris were in Auckland and have gone to set up another EN church in Sydney (He is a great preacher but very "into" the wealth/health properity doctrine...which I am very doubtful of now!!!

Beto Chapa, originally a missionary to Auckland in 2000 and then came back permanently and then later went to Melbourne Oz with David and Kristy Spring to plat the Melbourne church. He died suddenly last year of a food allergy shock. Historically he had been very "forceful" in atypical EN style and upset a few, possibly more people's faith (they should be "further along" than they were currently etc...not laying enough down etc)

The Old His People church in Christchurch, New Zealand is, run by Ps Bernard (someone)...he has cuased some trouble down there and many people have left church and it is all falling to pieces.

We decided to leave, after not being at church for a while...not being a part of the elite group and realising that God cares little for this. We had a friend visit us who was telling us the her discipler told her that her and the main pastor's wife had heard from God that she needed to give up her current study which was about to end of 5 years and go and take up another field...she felt sick to her stomach about this and told me....I felt for her as they had done this about my husband years earlier and that was why i left previously - feeling sick to my stomach about what my disicpler was telling me that God was telling her when God clearly can talk to His own children!!! Warning Bells. I explained to her best I could and then we decided to leave....many other reasons tooo...but I felt so annoyed with them that we could not even be bothered wasting anymore time of our life even "saying goodbye"...needless to say no-one has noticed we have gone...except the guy we were sponsoring...so much for WE LOVE YOU...

Anyway...anymore Kiwis or Aussies or anyone else connected?

[robert_unknown]

"Sean and Trudie Morris were in Auckland and have gone to set up another EN church in Sydney (He is a great preacher but very "into" the wealth/health properity doctrine...which I am very doubtful of now!!! "

thats what we in austria also had to realize and which brought a lot of questions and even problems.

he is specially very concerned for HIS personal wealth and property, and even is begging money from us here then and there sometimes in very anoing and inmature ways!

and by the way - half of the succes stories he shares about "his ministry" in austria are not true.

things tsrated good here in the beginning, but developed very strange later.

[dust]

Welcome back Sunshine State.

We left 19 months ago. At first, it's painful, but as I posted yesterday, God reminded me that we belong to Him, and He will provide the care you need in this process of leaving.
And, it's a process. To help me get to the other side of legalism, I downloaded sermons from other ministries. I would listen to downloads from Rob Bell...sometimes all day long...it helped me get to the other side of gospel and the teaching is excellent. It's the Word and the tone is love. Odd, how a pastor you'll never meet can change your life because of technology.

I seen everything you mentioned. Isn't it awesome that the Holy Spirit was warning you. YES, of COURSE, God talks to His own children. And, you have this board for support. You said no one noticed you were gone. Don't take it personal.....that's universal in EN churches. They don't call you...they don't notice. I wonder if sometimes that really isn't GOD'S protection, because a phone call might bring you back.

Here is a website to that pastor (NOT EN). His name is Rob Bell. His church is Mars Hill. I recommend because of lot of ENers have found some balance and peace listeing to his stuff. Even EN pastorshttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

http://www.mhbcmi.org/listen/index.php

Hint for Posting: You have repeated your thread a few times. It took me a while to navigate board too. You have about 30 minutes to edit or delete. When you click on post this, sometimes it looks like nothing is happening...it takes a while do load, DON'T click again, it will post again. And, it should pop up and tell you that you are posting twice. We've all done ithttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[pilgrim]

dust,

You do not always have 30 minutes to edit your posts. I Think that it was last week that I tried to edit one of my posts straight away and the system did not allow me to do so. Then I try to delete it and post it again but I could not delete it either.

[dust]

Really....then it must be something wrong with the system...it used to be 30 minutes. sorry for wrong info.

[speakword2004]

Funny how we former church addicts all gravitate to similar teachers. I enjoy also reading Mark Driscoll who is also from Mars Hill:

http://theresurgence.com/md_blog

[dust]

To Sunshine State:
This is actually not from me, but from Cinderella. have you read her story?

She wants to ask you if you know anything about the following people?

Ken & Renee Dew
Saita & Novaleen Liolivave
Norman & Easter
Adam & Sandra Claasen

[miltietoast]

ken dew was in Nashville several years ago with morningstar I believe. Ken Dew played football with me at Tenn Tech. I would drive him home for holidays in South Carolona and witness to him for four hours each way. He got saved about four times. One of them finally took

[sunshinesaint]

Yes Dust I know all those people and WELL! Should I say the least. Where would i find Cinderella's story. Ken Dew has actually changed alot for the good - he was super judgemental when they first planted and it was his way or highway but this was his extreme eagerness at the start but since then in his defense he has changed and matured! I repsect him for that! His wife is a different matter.

[dust]

Sunshine: His wife is a different matter.

Please read CInderella's story, she will agree with you.
This all happened to her in New Zealand, I'll repost. It's under

This is from CINDERELLA_NO_MORE
She emailed me and asked me to post this. She is waiting for her registration from Fact Net!

CINDERELLA'S STORY

Three months after becoming a Christian, I began V.L.I. By the 2nd year of VLI, I was becoming more and more involved in ministry at my church: nursery work, hospitality committee, choir helper, babysitter, greeter, servant evangelism group...you name it; I did it. I was very involved in campus ministry at a local university, and it was during this time
that I left my corporate job and began to work for MorningStar in an administrative capacity, taking a substantial pay cut by doing so. But, everything I was doing "was as unto the Lord", so I plodded along.

It was during this tenure at the Mstar offices that I became acquainted with many pastors and their families. More and more I was babysitting, tutoring the children who were home schooled, and cleaning houses (for free, mind you) for these leaders. Unfortunately, I never stopped long
enough to realize what was actually happening, I just thought, "Wow!!!
I'm helping to advance God's Kingdom through church planting, campus ministry, and world missions...hallelujah!!!"

After breaking-off a "courtship" (gag) with a pastor, I was asked to go serve God abroad, and move overseas with one of my pastors and hisfamily, because he & his wife were involved in a church plant, and God had "told" both of them that I was to go with them.

Excited at the opportunity to live with a pastor's family and have discipleship on a daily basis, and to serve God in a powerful way, I sold EVERYTHING that I owned, and moved, never expecting to return to the States again. (to be cont)

[dust]

Part 2 of Cinderella
CONTINUED CINDERELLA'S STORY
Posted by Dust for Cinderella

Upon my arrival in my new country, I was expectant and elated to see what all God was going to do with me and through me to reach young people. I'd enrolled in a local university, and was so excited to begin ministering on the campus again. How excited I was!!! Also, I was going to be the administrator for our new church, and I was going to work along side my pastor's wife as she home schooled her children. I
thought I was in Heaven!!! BOY, WAS I WRONG!!!

Shortly after arriving, the work began. At first, it was
manageable...assisting with the laundry, assisting with the home
schooling, assisting with the cooking, assisting with the housecleaning.

But, not long after, it became abundantly clear I was in a position ofindentured servitude. I say this not with sarcasm, but literally. I received what would be in U.S. dollars $450 a month (That works out to about $1.55/hr. U.S.D.). You may say that's fair considering I was getting free room and board. However, my work days began at 7 a.m.,when I had to prepare breakfast for the family (by myself). Then I'd clean the dishes (by myself).

And then the wife would begin to home school, and I was expected to observe and assist her, all while having
to do the laundry (which was an arduous task in those Barbie-sized washing machines where we lived). Then, I'd have to hang the laundry outside. By this time, it was time to make lunch! Usually, at thistime, the pastor and his wife left the house to "minister". To whom or for what reason, I STILL do not know. So, here I am in this 5,000 square foot house, dusting, mopping, vacuuming, changing sheets, home schooling, doing administrative work, picking beans in the garden for
dinner, getting the children bathed, baking cookies; and around 11 p.m... sleep.

But I just trudged along, thinking that I'm doing all of this as untothe Lord, because this is the line I was being fed. When standing outside the pastor's bedroom window on a narrow precipice 20 feet abovethe ground (and I'm TERRIFIED of high, open places), scraping bird-poopoff the window because the pastor's wife told me, "Pastor X wants an unobstructed view of the meadow when he wakes up in the morning,"

I thought, I'm scraping poop for the glory of God! When I had to clean vomit out of the bathroom where a visitor had thrown up,or clean animal refuse off the floor where one of their menagerie of pets had an accident inside, I thought, I'm doing this as unto the Lord.

[dust]

Cinderella Story CONTINUED, as emailed to Dust
It was during this time that the subtle, insidious manipulations beganfrom my pastor's wife. I used to joke that I was a member of the Rebuke of the Day Club...but it wasn't far from the truth. Each day, there was something about my character that she attacked. If I didn't ask EACH of the children what they wanted for breakfast, but just made everyone the same thing, I was told, "Where the spirit of assumption is, there is
much strife". When the pastor's wife would call me at 5 p.m., informing me that they would be having guests for dinner, and that I needed to thaw a turkey, and make a cheesecake from scratch by 7 p.m., I was told that "Blessed are they who can bend, for they shall not be broken."
When I made the mistake of wearing open-toed sandals with my pants-suit
to church, I was told that I had the spirit of a harlot, because my
shoes were "Honeymoon Shoes", and should only be worn for my husband
(?!!!). When I laughed, because I thought she was joking, she stopped
the car, ran the back side of her hand across her mouth and said, "The
Harlot wipes her mouth and says, 'I have not sinned' ." I'm not
kidding, folks...but it gets better...

Several times, when she was not happy with how I performed one of my duties, there was the need for me to "fast and pray until God revealed the sin in my heart". Keep in mind I'm cooking three, from-scratch meals a day for these people, and I like to eat. These 2 to 3 days of fasting were followed with a "Hootah Session" where I was forced to confess to having demons I'd never even heard of. But, I figured these
where my pastors, my spiritual authority, and I had to submit to them because they were more knowledgeable about these things than I was, and I didn't want a demon!

This went on for over a year, and then one day, for no apparent reason, I had a "meeting" with the pastor and his wife. Apparently the "Lord" had told them that I needed to go home to minister to my family. I was told I was going back to the U.S. in less than a month. That's it...no warning, no explanation. For over a year, I broke my back for these people and their obese, over-indulged children, and that's the kick in
the teeth I received. When they came to the states for a visit several months later, I left three messages at their hotel, just to say hello, and never heard back from them. And that was that...

This is a ministry of manipulation, coercion, and usury. These
self-appointed apostles operate under the guise of spiritual authority and they extract all the good from you that they can, and then they're done with you. To me, THAT is the spirit of harlotry, not wearing sandals or showing a little cleavage. That's the TRUE spirit of seduction, because you're seduced into thinking that you are valuable to God, and the building of His Kingdom, and that you can prove that by serving those in authority over you.

Cinderella_no_more (as emailed to Dust)

[dust]

FINAL PART OF CINDERALLA's STORY (as emailed to Dust)
I posted EXACTLY as she emailed me....

All of you who have been posting your stories on FactNet...YOU HAVE SAVED MY SANITY!!! People on the periphery don't get it. People outside this cult don't get it...but WE get it!!! Tik, keep typing!!!
Pilgrim, JIA, Ginger, Brick - you are wonderful! If we all speak up and keep exposing the lies and corruption we've witnessed first hand, we will help other people know that they are NOT ALONE!!! We know the TRUTH, and that is what will set us free!!!

I will write more later, but I know personally almost every heavy-hitter in this ministry. I've been given keys to their homes...I knew them well, and I trusted them all, implicitly!!! But we were DUPED!!! If this was in the "world", these leaders would be sent to prison for FRAUD. However, I know that in my heart, I really WAS doing everything as unto the Lord, and I bet many of you out there were, too. We were just too naive and trusting to know otherwise. We were as harmless as lambs, but dumb as rocks. But IT'S A NEW DAY, PEOPLE!!! We are now wise to their errant ways, and we are filled with righteous indignation.
I thank God for this message board, and I thank each of you who have written tales of your experiences that have assisted me in my recovery.
Thank God for legitimate, licensed Christian counselors; mine sure has helped me. Keep talking.

If you need to seek professional help...GET
IT!!! Keep posting, people...there is a change that's a' commin'... and
I truly believe in the law of sowing and reaping, and when they reap what they've sown...jump-back, Loretta...what a glorious day that will be!!!

[sunshinesaint]

Wow that is amazing - I will know this person - and would love to talk to them and find out how they have recovered as this would taken place a few years ago If I am correct?? How do I get in touch with Cinderella? My heart just sank reading her story and it also makes me mad!!

[sunshinesaint]

One of the praise and worship leaders in the top 2 for NZ Idol currently...they final is tomorrow night - it has been interesting to watch because she is such a beautiful person - perhaps this experience, and being away from EN will enlighten her! She has spoken nothing of EN or God or church until most likely tonight and tomorrow - almost like she was prompted not to...as there are numerous agencies that link EN to cult status here in NZ. PLEASE CAN YOU GET CINDERELLA TO SOMEHOW CONTACT ME at sunshinesaint@hotmail.com and then I will be able to come forward to my name etc... I am nervous on this site to do this as when I letf the church the first time and wrote all the pastors a letter stating why I was leaving and that I was concerned about a few things they threatened me saying they would take legal action against me if i said anything like that again. Typical huh.

[dust]

Oh, Yes, Sunshine, and she reads here. I'lll email her right away. Thank you.

[sunshinesaint]

I would like to share my story from beginning to end - DUST if you could pass this onto Cinderella. Hopefully someone will read this and benefit from this and leave the church!

I joined EN though a friend who was going along to a bible study. It had just started/planted in our city and it was very small...so when I arrived they literally "pounced" on us...luckily for my friend and all my other Christian friends at the time they were mature and wise enough not to get sucked into the "overwhelming awesomeness" of this ministry. What got me sucked in more was that I had previously been involved in politics on campus and when they found this out, through an old magazine - they took hold of me..."this is amazing - you have a special mantle to be on" the people on this campus look up to you already and this is a way for you to be used for God etc etc.

I went along to the small church meetings and they were great because we were literally 3 pastors to 1 person. They said they "loved me" and they were my family now. I got baptized and as the weeks went on I was encouraged to drop my "outside" friends. I had one male friend who I had been friends with for a while and one day out of the blue he started to have a crush on me. When I realized this I told my discipler, the main pastor's wife and she blamed me saying similar line that were used on Cinderella, harlot etc and that I had to call him and ask his forgiveness for giving him the impression that I was "available" (I did not have a car and he used to give me lifts to meetings) Because I had been in the car with him alone I had done the evil act and that I was to blame. So I called him and felt embarrassed and apologized!! As if I had "lead this brother into sin". I learned that I was never to spend time alone with a guy etc.

As months went on, I became the star of the church - and I loved it! Who wouldn't...the church grew and they made many comments all through the sermons on myself and my great destiny and other new people that were being saved. I was in "heaven". My family hated the church - we were "encouraged" to pay enormous amounts of money to go to the world conference in LA...when you are a student living at home money is scarce and my mom and dad were furious!!! I was baptized into the church. They were my new life. I "felt" like I was moving into my destiny!! They had a huge outreach on our campus from the States and many people got "saved", I was able to help discipling these people. The people from the States also became my new friends...all of us "full on Christians" together on our mission!!! We would go all over the campus sharing how God had changed our lives. We thought that the other Christian groups on campus were not good enough - or if we were invited by outsiders to other Christian events then we were sharply told that they were sub std!! EN events were the true way!

One girl I recall was seeing a guy and was told that she had to break up with him - they had been together for a while...it was a bad relationship (which she would have ended anyways) but we were told by the pastor to have NOTHING to do with this girl as she was in sin!!! The pastor would pick who they liked and who they didn't. One of my friends who was a bit rough looking was in awe of the main pastor and asked him if he could be disicpled by him, he was sharply told NO because this pastor was too busy BUT the real reason was because he was scruffy looking and did not fit the mould.

TO BE CONTD

[sunshinesaint]

part 2...
After many months the "intensity" for me cooled down a bit and my eyes started to be opened to the stuff that was going on...the favoritisms and the lack of compassion and intensity of discipleship! I went to one staff meeting where they discussed the types of people they wanted to build leadership into and the others (names were mentioned)were laughed upon the "so and so: type of Christian...this made me feel sick...all these innocent people were being told in sermons how great they would be when behind the scenes they were mocked!

What I will share next I have never had the courage to do so But I believe that being open about it will show you what these people were like...especially then!
One of the guys on campus, an ex drug lord, well known for this got "saved". To cut a long story short I ended up spending time with this person sharing the gospel etc...but the time that I spent with him I always had a bad gut feeling about him - he was their new star!!! An ex Drug lord - WOW!! This guy started to manipulate me subtly...he wanted to spend more time with me and I allowed it foolishly! He had no car and we lived close by and so he would want lifts home and would beg me to give him these lifts and then we would spend ages in the car outside his house talking about God and church. Then one day he invited me into his place - disgusting just like he was - and I was STUPID I admit it!!! I was sucked in by this guy's charisma. He then started hitting on me and "forced himself" on me. That night I told him "no" but he still continued! After that I went home and felt sick! I had "worked" so hard to stay pure and preach purity and now it had all be destroyed I was worth nothing and so like any stupid girl in this scenario I kept going back to him and allowing him to do this! I admit I was wrong in not reporting this when this first happened but spiritually I was destroyed that he had done this and I had got myself into that sort of scenario - part of me felt like it was my fault! While I was in his place I saw a piece of paper with a list of girls names on it - my name was at the top - my gut feeling was this guys was only in the church to see how many of the girls he could do like he did me! A couple of weeks later I started to feel really sick and I went to see a campus doctor - I had picked up an STD from this disgusting pig and there was a chance that I could have AIDS. (This test takes 3 months to show up)...I decided to tell the pastor what had happened and that I believe that he had forced himself on me, not of my will etc etc....They did not believe me - thy blamed me they said obviously it was not rape because I kept going back ad back for more (did they not understand that this guy had completely destroyed me anyway so after that the time he first forced himself then I no longer cared I became rubbish.) I was told not to tell anyone and that they would talk to this guy....no remember he was their STAR.
CONTD...

[sunshinesaint]

PART 3
He was told not to call me BUT he kept calling me and wanting to see me. I was all alone suffering with thinking that I might have Aids, no one to talk to talk - It was the worst 3 months of my life...although I would just go to the beach sit and listen to God - I was so upset that I could not even pray!
This guys was continually mentioned in sermons as the great star etc on and on...I tried to warn the pastors about the list of other girls names I found and that I believed he was just going to go through the list - they told me this that I was lying! Sure as anything he did start hitting on another of the girls...I do not know what happened there because I was not allowed to talk about it. Eventually I did talk to 2 other people about it - they were wonderful, one of the girls had been saved only 6 months and when they found out that I had told he I was summed to a meeting with this girl and another person and I was torn to pieces about how I could put this amount of pressure on such a young Christian, I could have ruined her faith, it will be on my death bed now etc... Months later I met this wonderful guy...to cut a long story short God actually made it clear to me that this was to be my husband. I was still in discipleship at the time and I told this to the pastor’s wife -she almost hit the roof...every week God would show me more signs that he was the one and I would go back to her and tell her them - she would get more and more mad - He was not in EN, which is "unthinkable"...eventually she told me that I was not taking the highway of holiness - this would be settling for SECONd BEST! He was not the right man for me; it would all end in disaster!! She also told me that she was my discipler and because she was my authority I needed to listen to her because she heard more clearly from God than Him speaking to me!!! I was not on the highway of holiness.
Because God's voice was more powerful to me than this stupid woman’s I knew that I had to leave and this was my out! The bad gut feelings I would have during and after every meeting with this woman were unbelievable, God spoke to me in His Word about leaving the church too - I left.

The STAR guy, even though they knew he was dubious was apparently in the WORLD CONFERENCE’S Booklet with his testimony – Can you believe this!!! This same guy has now vanished and is looking into New Age religions, Buddism etc…Just like I tried to explain to them that he was a fake!!!

That day I wrote a letter to all the pastors who had been my "family" that had "loved me"...explaining what had happened...I was then summoned and told that if I repeat what I said in the letter then they would take legal action against me.
CONTD..

[sunshinesaint]

PART 4...
The day I left I lost all my friends! None of these people who I had driven to and from church for months who "loved me" even called! They were warned about me. One girl even emailed me saying that I was a harlot and a prostitute for going off with this guy. This guy ended up becoming my husband and he WAS God's best choice for me...I do not need to go into the reasons why BUT time has proved this!!!

I struggled for many years with friendships and understanding the will of God - I actually thought that I would never be able to serve God effectively as I could if not in EN....
so...we went back (married now....) BAD mistake!

We have finally left ...again
BUT I have a peace about it and I know I am a more mature Christian and feel 100% convinced about why I have left and know within my soul the real Jesus and His soft voice. Anyways I am o.k. now so don't feel sorry for me and praise God I did not get Aids from that guy. I did waste stupid years of my life BUT I have grown and learnt so many lessons to pass onto my child - Praise the Lord for this! I was so spiritually immature through the whole time I was there, I thought I was so mature!!! I did not realize that going through tough times and hearing the soft voice of the Holy Spirit and walking the path of a Christian is all maturity. It does not happen overnight and putting immature people like me into ministry those many years ago was stupid!

Thank you for reading my story!

[dust]

Sunshine
Cinderella will be getting back to you. And, I will get this to her!
Thanks
Dust

[dust]

Sunshine is this "pastor's wife" the same person who did in Cinderella? Used to be in New Zealand. Husband is okay, wife is another story?

[dust]

From Cinderella:

I'm sorry that happened. I'm sure it was Renee that said those things to you, (dust: I can't repeat the rest). I know the drug dealer. I was ready to jump through the phone tonight. We used to meet in the Dew's home. Were you there then? She is a sick woman, delusional and she needs to be called out and STOPPED on what she's doing to young women. Renee told me "any woman who gets raped asks for it."

Me, Dust: Who uses the word "harlot" anymore. This is Renee's buzz word. Yuck again!

[dust]

From Cinderella:

To Miltie: Thanks for getting Ken saved. Can you save his wife?

Ken Dew divorced his beauty queen wife and seems like he ended up with Cruella. Rice said the beauty queen wouldn't "get on board" with maranatha and he had a destiny that he couldn't achieve with the beauty queen.

Well now he sits back and watches Cruella condemn young girls and say things like, "

"the harlot wipes her mouth and says I have not sinned,"

And to Renee Dew, every girl is a harlot, especially if they are a little attractive. All attractive women are suspect!

From Cinderella (who can't seem to get registered).

[dust]

From Dust:

Well this is the awesome GLOBAL effect of "Changing the Campus, Change the World" Yes, spread the EN seed all around globe!

I sure do hope some nice Christian ministry is going BEHIND Every Nation with Dust Pans picking up the roadkill, bringing them back to life, with the REAL JESUS CHRIST and His LOVE for His Sheep.

Spinach Tiger

[sunshinesaint]

Hi there, thanks for your responses - are you really saying that Ken was divorced? Before meeting Renee?

Luckily for me I was saved before I got into the ministry BUT the others - poor souls! Some I meet and are now anti-God. Praise God for revelation...I spoke to another "enlightened one" last night and we agreed that we should start printing t-shirts...."WE GOT OUT!!!" WE ARE FREE"... http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif I think this would be a great idea.

I am not angry about the cover up of "the star" I have moved on since then and have a wonderful husband...thank goodness I did not listen to my discipler!!!

Dust - which church were you in? and how do you know Cindrerella? How have you both moved on, emotionally and spiritually?

[miltietoast]

ken dew married a nice girl in cookeville and got divorced

[ulyankee]

Dust, did Cinderella try to log in with the username and password she registered? FACTNet sometimes registers people manually without informing them and/or sending a registration key by email.

[another_brick_in_the_wall]

May God bestow you comfort, mercy, grace and true love to SunshineSaint and Cinderella.

My heart aches hearing these stories.

God help us all.

Blessings,
Brick-

[pilgrim]

sunshinesaint and Cinderella no more,

I was deeply touched by both of your testimonies. Thank you for sharing this with us.

[genesis_truth]

I also went to a NZ EN church. I also got sucked in by the "Strong" christian presence and leadership and the preaching and worship etc.

I ended up being disgusted by the way that they treated people I knew there while sick - telling them to "believe" and live in faith - basically making them feel like they were the ones at fault and not actually coming alongside them in brotherly love to support, console or help.

I was appalled by the way they discipled people (especially amongst the women). The authority of certain women and the comments they made to their disciples were tragic and abusive. I noticed that the women leaders had a legion of slaves to do their dirty work and called this "gleaning" from someone who is higher up in the lord! It made me want to puke.

I was turned off by the way they treated the not so flash amongst us. They seemed to have an inner circle and "tagged" people early in regards to using them. The rest of us would be left in busting our butts trying to get into that inner circle thinking that it would be great to learn from these "elite" people in the Lord. Or else we were classified as no-hopers. I have good authority that they spoke disparagingly and disdainfully about members of the congregation in staff meetings.

I hated they way they ran the church like a business - sales targets, corpoate positions etc.

Did you know that one of the pastors from Auckland is called the Director of Assimilation??? How repulsive is that title. Makes me think of nazi times when people were taught to "assimilate" into the thinking of nazi philosophy! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/angry.gif www.everynation.co.nz (http://www.everynation.co.nz) is the website for those who are interested.

[undercover]

I am on staff in a NZ EN church and I know that some here pulled out of a property investment with a former member (they left in disgust over their filthy treatment) all because one of the leadership didn't seem to understand what he was doing in regards to the investment and then turned the rest against the former member. I am totally ashamed to have been a part of they meeting which condemned them. Apparently the leader has a history of such things.


I am starting to re-evaluate my position in this organisation.

[osakadan]

Dear Undercover and genesis_truth,

I am concerned about the Every Nation Zeal programme move into the school system. Are you aware of the lawsuits bought against Victory clubs of Every Nation in the USA, and more importantly of the suicide attempt of one student after being told to trust God and stop her anti-depression medication?

I would urge you to read more on the issue at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Every_Nation and to write to Sir Edmund Hillary Collegiate Senior School (Auckland) office.seniorschool@hillarycollegiate.school.nz to make them more aware of the situation.

[ginger1]

Is Ken Dew a part of this ?

[osakadan]

He is part of Every Nation (or was) but not sure about the Zeal Programme.

I have also sent a letter to the NZ Minister for Education as these are public schools.

Mr Maharey
smaharey@ministers.govt.nz

[dust]

There have been incredible horror stories amongst the women in New Zealand. I'm not sure if Ken Dew is still there or in Australia but he and his wife, Renee Dew, started the church in New Zealand. I've heard things about her firsthand and she sounds worse than Rose W. I also think she may have been discipled by Rose.

Renee Dew is a bully and Ken Dew stands by and watches it.

I do hope more will come forward. See Cinderella's story.

Women leave Renee Dew and have to get psychological help. I was at one of her sermons for women, and I'll verifiy that something is wrong with her. It was all about her dreams of riches and big houses and how God blessed her with all her material desires. Her speech was so narcissistic, and simply not relevant in a ministry setting. At the time I felt embarrased for her. I didn't know how MEAN she was, or I would have went up to her and asked her to spend the rest of her days repenting in silence for being such a bully.

It seems like this horrible spirit of MCM has left such a legacy that almost anyone that's been discipled in MCM is unfit to mentor anyone and they turn into monsters. They are a spiritual product of the spiritual product. They lay hands on people in leadership to "pass down the anointing, and what they pass down is often dark and evil.

Makes me remember that when we were accepted into leadership, they forgot to call us and tell us. So they named our names but never did that "laying hands thing on us." At the time, I remember so stupidly thinking, "we didn't get the blessing everyone else got." Well, now whatever it is that everyone esle got, I'm glad I didn't get it.

[osakadan]

Yes, doesn't sound like anyone would want her hands on them.

[osakadan]

Ken is still listed as senior pastor in NZ.

http://www.everynation.co.nz/aboutus_leadership.html

[dust]

If anyone from NZ is reading here, please take some time to read and realize that you do not have to do housework for the Dews or wash Ken's underwear for God to love you. You SHOULD NOT listen to a single word that Renee Dew says. She will speak many lies over you and try to destroy you, rob you of your joy. She doesn't speak for God. She may actually be mentally troubled.

She will tear your faith down. But, it is God that will restore you. He will! Get out of EN. RUN! And find the love of Jesus that is waiting for you.

[maranatha1984]

Robert:half of the succes stories he shares about "his ministry" in austria are not true.

Tikie: True for MCM leaders and for EN apparently. They could take the smallest thing that happened and turn it into the Parting of the Red Sea. We used to call it EVANG- ELASTIC preaching! Liars is what they are were....

[robert_unknown]

i remember him refering to us other senior pastors (each with his own ministry) as "my pastors" and the other churches as "sattelite churches"... as if we were on his paylist... http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

[robert_unknown]

however - we had this kind of problems already before EN...

[sunshinesaint]

Hello http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Are you guys aware that they have started a ENLI in Samoa?? Most of the EN church goers are Samoan culture. Thus they have felt a huge calling to go there and the peoplein Samoa including government officals have welcomed them with open arms...anyone know how to warn these Samoan leaders?

Ken Dew is still the leader in NZ...he is the "leader" of the whole south pacific region. THe "Apostle" of the region.

We have left the church but still finding it difficult to find another church to make our home -how did you guys find a new church - coming from all this crap that we have?

[robert_unknown]

it took me three years to understand that the environement that i have been part of was unhealthy, and the reason why it was unhealthy.

it took me some months to understand that i have no future in such an environement. even despite the fact, that i feel strongfor the local church and the people in this church (i know them since more than ten years, and much of my lifetime has been put into the church), i feel strong that my family, and specially my kids, need a healthy church environement to grow up healthy and woth a sound biblical understanding.
we have opened our eyes for a family friendly church with good children service, and then we started visiting 2 or 3 other churches.
then we made a decision.

but there has also been a lot of prayer. i remember crying to God to show me what is wrong in my church, about what is the truth behind all it, and then we prayed much about God to please show us a church for my family, to grow healthy...

at present i am in a non charismatic church, which is led by elders and not by a pastor. i dont have anything against pastors, but i have something against abuse and controle. and the main focs was not wheter the church has a pastor or not, or whether the church is charismatic or not.
the church where we are at the moment, has a ver christ-centered lifestyle. all sermons and all worship centers around Jesus. not about vision, not about gifts, not about beeing or getting blessed, not around spiritual family and DNA, not around saving the world, but about CHRIST.

we really love it.


for the first time, after many years, i look forward with joy to go to church!

[osakadan]

Perhaps the only way is to write to the Samoan government and individual politicians, and Newspapers.

Warning of links to Maranatha and the US situation with the girl attempting suicide.

[40days40years]

Did you know that one of the pastors from Auckland is called the Director of Assimilation???

40: How can this be? It sounds impossible, they must have watched Star Trek, the Borg all that good stuff, can anyone be that stupid to call themselves that?

[genesis_truth]

Shame. But it is true. I somehow think that they niether think about nor care how blunt and harsh they can be. To me, this title seems to portray that they are aiming to suck up our culture and spit it back out in the form that they think is right.

[40days40years]

Director of assimilation? Satan uses names like that when he has the power not before. It is almost like they are to dumb to be used by Satan and we know that name did not come from God.

[40days40years]

It is arrogant though I will give it that.

[annelewis]

Whatever happened to Bob and Kathy (maybe sp. Kathie?) Munie?

[sunshinesaint]

annelewis

Bob and Kathy?? HOw long ago were they around? Were they MCM days?

[annelewis]

Sunshine,

They were the first pastors of the MCM NZ church. This would have been the late 80's, I believe. Bob used to serve in an admin capacity in Gainesville. In fact he was the MLTS coordinator (amongst other responsibilities) for a number of year. I remember them as being a nice couple.

[sunshinesaint]

Part 1:

I have written many accounts here about my journey through EN and the people associated with it. Over the past couple of weeks I have felt the urging to also write about some of the positive experiences I had and that in the ministry there were and are still good and honourable people.

I firstly want to acknowledge that since posting here I have actually received a number of apologies from people within the church. So I felt the need for this to be recognized here since I have only written of my negative experiences. Most of these negative experiences were acknowleged and apologized for. I admire their courage for this…as this takes guts.

In the church we attended, yes we had some bad times as posted but we also had some favourable times – of course these don’t normally get mentioned and this is what I have felt quite bad about – that only one side of the “story” has been told.

With my discipler I also had some good times – yes there were yucky times but also good times and I believe that these people, at least the ones I have been most recently been in contact with, have in South Pacific I honestly believe are doing what they believe is best and form the genuine heart.

I want to add that when we often speak of leaders we forget of all the energy and most importantly their precious time which they invest in people like us.

At least 2 of the couples in the church were going to come and visit us – which is geographically miles and miles across town - totally out of their way to come and say hello. Both of these people have families, one of which has very young children – at least 4 kids – YET they still had the time and plan to come and visit us.

[sunshinesaint]

Part 2:
When I was sick I also want to say that despite overall my feelings of “misplacement” from the church, the main pastor still had the courtesy to call me to find out how I was and I was also visited a number of times by the pastor couple with young children and prayed for. I have not acknowledged this and feel I need to. This couple, especially have a wonderful heart and they helped us with prayer and “emotional” support on many occasions. One time we were thinking of buying a house and this pastor came with us to “check out” the place. That is pretty cool! He was an awesome person! His wife was also wonderful and full of grace!

I feel that I have focused so much on the negative and forgotten the positive!

I also wish to say that I have gone through some serious “post baby” mental issues – I have even had to visit a psychiatrist, due to all my hormones being all over the place…I realise that some of my posts have been a testimony to this “out of control” thing happening to my body and my brain 

One of which is that when I was in dire needs of medical help, as I explained in previous posts I expected one of the pastors living close by to come and “rescue me”. I see now that this was stupid of me, I had totally over the top expectations of this person. In fact I wish to acknowledge that this same person who I was “so angry” with on my post had actually a couple of months earlier tried to come visit but I had actually cancelled out on her. So she was probably trying to play cool with me and realizing I was going through some medical issues. I would like all to see that in spite of my “angriness” at the time – they had tried VERY hard to assist me and also on many previous times in the past.

I feel that in my collected calm state now…the church we belonged to has a history of being a little “OTT” but there are wonderful people there and I think that my expectations of people have always being a bit high throughout my life. I have being disappointed with people in general – but they also have lives and their own families and they should not need to drop everything to run out and save me 

Yes I had some “scary” times and heard some “OTT” things but I think that these people are just trying their best. If I had had the guts in the first place to stand up to my discipler and say a few honest truths – then perhaps I would not have taken the whole “discipler” thing too hard. If I had focused more on what God thought rather than what my discipler thought then perhaps things would have been different.

[sunshinesaint]

Part 3:

I needed to realise that it was what God thinks that counts.
I needed to realise that I should have been honest about what I thought.
I should have stood my ground about what I believed was God’s will for my life.
I should have not been scared of “man”.
I should have looked to God and smiled more often  and not taken so many things too seriously.

I would like to also add a few things to the record:

I admire EN’s stance on follow up of new believers. I have never been in a church that is able to teach them so well on what it is to be a new believer. I really appreciate the Purple Book and I regret my mocking comments on it earlier. If I was ever to recommend a good teaching for a new believer this is it!

I also admire their zeal for winning souls.

I also admire the amount of time they effortlessly put into the church, their home groups, going around to people’s homes to pray for them. The family time they have to put aside – when they probably could do with some of their “own” time. The amount of time they have put into teaching VLI/ENLI – I still got out a lot of what I learnt…yes at the end I was too sick to finish – but I found all of the teaching really good and entertaining. While I was doing ENLI I was in my Word more than ever.

Yes there are people I have not liked, but this is to acknowledge that there have been also people who are and have been wonderful.

We have had bad experiences, but life dishes those out! I have personality clashes and now I wish to move on. I have received direct apologies for some of the tough discipling I received and I wish to acknowledge that here. This person in particular had the right heart…I see now it more of a personality clash than anything else.

I know that this can’t take away the “angst” from many of my posts. I wish to highlight that I have been a little “too hormonal” than I normally would like to be and this “angst” was less than desirable.

I have had experiences – and now I have also added the positive ones.
Perhaps this can paint the real picture for me.

Bless you and thank you for your support through this journey!

[osakadan]

Bravo for your posting! While I might not agree 100% many people have positive experiences as well as negative experiences. It is good to be honest with ourselves about this. I think if you were to read the complete archive of the site you would find numerous people describing both events. I know I have.