Important warning to the guys who steal money from Gods people

[robert_unknown]

I have a word for you:


1.SAM.2,12-17
Eli's Wicked Sons
12 Eli's sons were wicked men; they had no regard for the LORD. 13 Now it was the practice of the priests with the people that whenever anyone offered a sacrifice and while the meat was being boiled, the servant of the priest would come with a three-pronged fork in his hand. 14 He would plunge it into the pan or kettle or caldron or pot, and the priest would take for himself whatever the fork brought up. This is how they treated all the Israelites who came to Shiloh. 15 But even before the fat was burned, the servant of the priest would come and say to the man who was sacrificing, "Give the priest some meat to roast; he won't accept boiled meat from you, but only raw."

16 If the man said to him, "Let the fat be burned up first, and then take whatever you want," the servant would then answer, "No, hand it over now; if you don't, I'll take it by force."

17 This sin of the young men was very great in the LORD's sight, for they [d] were treating the LORD's offering with contempt.


1.SAM 2,27-36
27 Now a man of God came to Eli and said to him, "This is what the LORD says: 'Did I not clearly reveal myself to your father's house when they were in Egypt under Pharaoh? 28 I chose your father out of all the tribes of Israel to be my priest, to go up to my altar, to burn incense, and to wear an ephod in my presence. I also gave your father's house all the offerings made with fire by the Israelites. 29 Why do you [f] scorn my sacrifice and offering that I prescribed for my dwelling? Why do you honor your sons more than me by fattening yourselves on the choice parts of every offering made by my people Israel?'

30 "Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: 'I promised that your house and your father's house would minister before me forever.' But now the LORD declares: 'Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained. 31 The time is coming when I will cut short your strength and the strength of your father's house, so that there will not be an old man in your family line 32 and you will see distress in my dwelling. Although good will be done to Israel, in your family line there will never be an old man. 33 Every one of you that I do not cut off from my altar will be spared only to blind your eyes with tears and to grieve your heart, and all your descendants will die in the prime of life.

34 " 'And what happens to your two sons, Hophni and Phinehas, will be a sign to you—they will both die on the same day. 35 I will raise up for myself a faithful priest, who will do according to what is in my heart and mind. I will firmly establish his house, and he will minister before my anointed one always. 36 Then everyone left in your family line will come and bow down before him for a piece of silver and a crust of bread and plead, "Appoint me to some priestly office so I can have food to eat." ' "


LK 19,1-10
Zacchaeus the Tax Collector
8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount."

9Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."


"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."


(Message edited by robert_unknown on July 08, 2006)

[bill_mack]

I've been thinking for a long time whether scriptures like these are representative to the current cult leaders we are dealing with. The difference I see is that Eli was at one time a legitimate priest. In the case of EN leaders, they are simply the second generation people from the 1948-51 North Battleford Revival which was based upon an gnostic and unscriptural foundation. In other words, wre these leaders every really saved? If it can be proven they were never saved, then the "Eli and sons" allegory doesn't apply. What would apply would be the connection that Freemason Charles Taze Russell started the Jehovah's witness and Freemason Joseph Smith took the rituals, beliefs and practices from his masonic lodge and started his Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints aka Mormonism.

I have already made a solid case that its the latter. Rice Broocks, Steve Murrell and Phil Bonasso are discoplies of Bob Weiner and other NOLR leaders. The questions at hand comes down to, "Is the New Order of the Latter Rain a legitimate expression of Christianity?" Over 50 years of solid evidence shows that the foundational doctrines and practices are not Christian.

Reincarnation is not now and never will be a Christian doctrine. The reincarnation of the souls of Israel into their genetic descendants is not and never will be a Christian doctrine, but it is a majot tenet of Christian Kabbalah, especially Rosicrucians and Freemasons. Just read their literature!! It's all there!!!

It is true that Eli's sons did wicked deeds and they were put to death by God, but Christian Kabbalah is not Christianity in any expression or realm. Since these leaders claim the Name, gifts and authority of Christ, they will be dealt with by the very God they claim to represent.

Heb 10:31
It is a fearful thing [for MCM/ENC/NOLR leaders] to fall into the hands of the living God.

[hewrote]

%WHO IS EVERY NATION?%

Proverbs 30:9
Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, 'Who is the LORD ?' Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God.

[40days40years]

robert_unknown: I think that some of the EN leaders may be in danger of being worse than the sons of Eli because they have heard about Jesus and read his words.

This group does remind me of the story in the Old Testament where the leaders were concerned and busy building their own houses and neglecting the temple of the Lord. A lot of ordinary members have given sacrificially for many, many years for a church building that was never built or purchased.

[jonmoseley]

Clearly, God will judge very harshly those who take custody of money from God's people GIVEN TO GOD in their view. If they mis-use God's money, God will judge them quite harshly.

I have also heard many examples, however, of how God BLESSES THE GIVER for giving (in his heart) to God, regardless of how the money is ultimately used. Between the giver and God, the money is given to God, and God sees that. And that is all the more reason why God will judge the minister harshly who mis-uses the money, even while blessing the giver individually for giving.

[jonmoseley]

Clearly, God will judge very harshly those who take custody of money from God's people GIVEN TO GOD in their view. If they mis-use God's money, God will judge them quite harshly.

I have also heard many examples, however, of how God BLESSES THE GIVER for giving (in his heart) to God, regardless of how the money is ultimately used. Between the giver and God, the money is given to God, and God sees that. And that is all the more reason why God will judge the minister harshly who mis-uses the money, even while blessing the giver individually for giving.

[jonmoseley]

Clearly, God will judge very harshly those who take custody of money from God's people GIVEN TO GOD in their view. If they mis-use God's money, God will judge them quite harshly.

I have also heard many examples, however, of how God BLESSES THE GIVER for giving (in his heart) to God, regardless of how the money is ultimately used. Between the giver and God, the money is given to God, and God sees that. And that is all the more reason why God will judge the minister harshly who mis-uses the money, even while blessing the giver individually for giving.

[dust]

Jon,
If you see someone taking money from other people, like innocent church members, you better say something. COVERING SIN is WRONG. You can't square it. We are grateful for those who uncovered the World Partner scandal where I, myself, put in some long hours of hard work and gave my money. I would rather give that money direct to widows and children, single mom. GIVE ME A BREAK with your loyalty that in the end is EMPTY.

You are trying to sound honorable, but a 4th car for a leader with the money from World Partners, while single mom's can't feed their children....yes, Jesus would have surely said, "

TIS AN HONOR TO MY FATHER TO SEE THIS GIVING."

[pilgrim]

40days40years,

You wrote, This group does remind me of the story in the Old Testament where the leaders were concerned and busy building their own houses and neglecting the temple of the Lord. A lot of ordinary members have given sacrificially for many, many years for a church building that was never built or purchased.

Also sometimes they did purchased a property and extended it like in the case of Maranatha in Argentina. The building in Argentina was sold after only a few years and I do not know what have they done with the proceeds of the sale of that house.

I believe that the people who gave sacrificially for the purchase of that building should have been consulted before the sale. Also it was not very nice to just close down and to live the people in Argentina without a building. On the other hand I am glad that hopefully no more people are going to be caught in that cult in Argentina.

Dust,

You wrote, COVERING SIN is WRONG. You can't square it. We are grateful for those who uncovered the World Partner scandal where I, myself, put in some long hours of hard work and gave my money. I would rather give that money direct to widows and children, single mom. GIVE ME A BREAK with your loyalty that in the end is EMPTY.

I couldn't agree more, I believe that we are responsible to make sure that the money that we give is used correctly. Otherwise it will never be any money left to help the poor, the hungry the widows and the orphans. They Holy Spirit will guide us and show us when to give, how to give and to whom to give.

[dust]

I actually think the church would do a service to say this.

Once a month take that tithe (if you believe in tithing) GO meet a need of someone you know right now...a single mom, a widow, a teenager in need, someone without health insurance, and don't worry about a TAX break.

The church would be scared to death to do something like that.
EN says this: THose things are considered OFFERINGS above the tithe. First you give off the gross, which in our case was giving 10% from a 50% paycheck or 20% of our net. That leaves us with a net of 30% to live on...at that point we need some offering ourself.

So how many people in the church are left with any money to meet the very real needs in front of them. Shame on a lot of the churches who sit there in benevolance meetings because Christians are forced to give their money in a big brother fashion instead of in secret and with love and joy meeting real needs they can see. YUCK, SPIT.

[jonmoseley]

DUST WROTE: Jon, If you see someone taking money from other people, like innocent church members, you better say something. COVERING SIN is WRONG.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My response: I agree with you...mostly. But I have never seen anyone taking money from innocent church members and mis-spending it. Not one dime. Not ever. And I have had plenty of opportunity! I traveled around the Soviet Union (when it still was the USSR) with $5000 of cash in my pants (money belt, but that's not as dramatic) as the money for our entire trip of 45 people. The leader, a Maranatha pastor, would come to me for more cash every time it was needed. NEVER have I seen one dime mis-spent of money given by God's people. (Other than in the newspaper about ministries that I have nothing to do with.) You might not have meant it that way, but your post seemed to imply that I had. Never.

FURTHERMORE, Matthew 18:15-17 is the governing scripture. What you recommend VIOLATES THE BIBLE by not following what JESUS HIMSELF commanded on this topic.

How do you, if you advocate ignoring the Bible, hope to promote the Bible and adherence to the Bible? How do you set yourself as the defender of Biblical practices, without following yourself what the Bible has to say?

Furthermore, it is even more serious when a leader is involved. See 1 Timothy 5:19

[wisedove]

jon-
you are almost cracking me up. How DARE you come on here and attack these people! You are judging, it looks like to me. You don't know who has gone to leaders following MATT. 18, and have been ignored, rebuked, etc. GIVE ME A BREAK!

I know that Dust has gone to leaders numerous times, I myself stood up to the leaders at my church when i was told that I STEPPED out of the church's covering by attending another church not affiliated with EN. you are pretty presumptious with your judging other's without knowing the facts.

I will repeat...1. how long have you been reading before you decided to post?

[jonmoseley]

I ACTUALLY DID what you describe, including for the 2 years I attended Brett Fuller's church Metro Morning Star in Sterling, part of Every Nation.

However, the tithe is not defined by your (or my) opinions of social engineering BUT BY THE WORD OF GOD.

The word of God says it is a mandatory 10%. EN did not say that. GOD SAID THAT.

However, God also gave some insight and guidance when he said "SO THAT THERE MAY BE FOOD IN MY HOUSE."

Knowing that Darrell Green and Tim Johnson and some wealthy businessmen (who BECAME prosperous as a result of worshipping God in MCM and then EN/MSI-- I know one of these people personally from 1985, who used to carry equipment to and from Church on Sunday under my leadership as crew leader) are in the church, I felt that THERE WAS ALREADY FOOD in Metro Morning Star's "house."

THEREFORE, I gave my tithes and offerings while attending MMS to a church in Latvia and in annapolis, INSTEAD OF to Brett Fuller's church from 2003 through 2005.

I knew that there was NOT food enough in those other "houses" and there was a need there.

So while in EN I DID NOT tithe to EN, but to where I saw a need.

You hypothesize that EN would not tolerate it.

They did with me.

In fact, once or twice I gave money at MMS in Sterling DESIGNATED for the Annapolis church NOT to go to the Sterling church.

Nobody questioned that. (THeir finances are handled separately.)

[dust]

Jon
They mostly treated harshly and abused those they selected for their leadership circle. The rest they just neglect, which sounds lke what they did to you. So, you can only see from your eyes. Stay around and read up. We fought for people just like you so you wouldn't get overlooked or tossed out.

You say you didn't follow their rules and they didn't rebuke you. They probably had selected you out, not in. Consider yourself favored.

[jonmoseley]

Dust writes:
The rest they just neglect, which sounds lke what they did to you. So, you can only see from your eyes.

MY RESPONSE: I agree with that. I repeatedly made clear on Tik's blog -- although he has since deleted it all -- that I ACCEPT your experience.

If you had a bad experience, I can't and don't dispute that.

However, what I do dispute is the UNIVERSAL nature of what you experienced.

People have a bad experience so they call that a universal RULE of the church... instead of one bad apple who abused you.

If in Church 1 something bad happened and in Church 2 IT DID NOT happen, then what does that say about whether this is a UNIVERSAL rule of the denomination?

People are vastly over-generalizing their bad experiences and projecting those onto everyone else.

I accept that you had a bad experience.

Can you accept that others did NOT?

[vanguard]

I have seen Phil Bonasso stole money, its even in public record too.

I have posted that before. Back in 1998, Phil decided to buy a building in Palos Verdez. He even brought in prophets to say to us that God want us in that building. Money was raised , $845,000. Then Phil Bonasso ANNOUNCED TO THE ENTIRE CHURCH THAT THE BUILDING IS PAID OFF.

Just last year, according to the public record , that BUILDING WAS NEVER PAID OFF, in FACT that $845,000 DISAPPEARED.
Then Phil TOOK OUT MORE Money (equity) not even the church administrator know about it. NOT EVEN THE ENTIRE CHURCH STAFF KNEW ABOUT IT.

Then Phil transferred OUR CHURCH PROPERTY TO MSI. WITHOUT ANYBODY KNOWLEDGE. Not even Adminsitrators, this happened so he CAN TAKE MORE MONEY OUT . He took $400,000 AND $1.2 Million.

THE PV Church JUST RECENTLY FOUND OUT about it. And yes, a lot of people are FURIOUS of what Phil did.
The church was recently sold and they were shocked at how much Phil Bonasso stole so much money from the equity.

Worse part, THEY JUST FOUND OUT THEY DO NOT EVEN OWN THE BUILDING !

[vanguard]

Here is the BEST PART. I gave all those EVIDENCES TO Asian EN BOARD . And they DECIDED NOT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT !

[jonmoseley]

I actually am an attorney (jurist or advocat), and what you describe -- if true -- is not only spiritually wrong but is criminal.

I have commented that what has been posted (a) is unfair because people are criticizing what MOST churches in America do yet attacking only one church, (b) was simply not true in my experience, (c) was a disguised and dishonest attempt to win a theological disagreement by attacking the messenger instead of dealing with Biblical truth in an open discussion.

WHAT YOU DESCRIBE HERE, however, is radically different. It is of course unproven.

BUT AT LEAST you are now addressing serious matters in a proper way, by (a) indicating that you have already gone through Matthew 18:15-17 (although I suspect you should get a prominent leader to "go with you" as well in fulfillment of the middle step, not just stop at step #1, although I don't know if you did that from your post).

ASSUMING what you describe is true, at least under U.S. law, raising money for one purpose and not using the money for the dedicated purpose would be counted as fraud and would possibly even by criminal fraud.

HOWVER, because of the rather loose language used on this board generally, concerning things I have PERSONAL experience with, I would tread very very carefully before leaping to conclusions.

However, assuming that your understanding and interpretation checked out, I think that would be a question not only for the ministry, but for the legal authorities of that country and/or the United States.

REMEMBER, though, that Jesus commanded you to go TO THE PERSON who has sinned. I realize that this gets very complicated in big ministries (like any organization).

But I THINK YOU HAVE TO TRY.

And note that I just got through SUING in court a Christian organization, and I had to counsel my client to VERY CAREFULLY go through all of these steps BEFORE I would file a lawsuit for him. I would not criticize a Christian ministry without being certain that I am right, BUT I WILL if I am convinced they are wrong.

So, I think you have to TRY to send a letter or other communication DIRECTLY to Phil Bonasso, and try to "bring with you" (if letter is all you can manage, then with you on the letter) someone else who is a Christian. THere is no requirement that the other CHristian be a leader, but it would help, of course, if the other Christian were a leader, if possible.

Concerning transfer of the land, this raises more questions. How could Phil Bonasso transfer the land to anyone unless it was in his own name, personally?

Or did the church in Palos Verdes transfer the land, SO IT WAS NOT Phil Bonasso at all?

[jonmoseley]

I AM VERY SERIOUS ABOUT THIS. Whereas I have little patience for vague and unsubstantiated complaints, particularly picking on one church for what ALL churches are struggling with, by the same token I have no patience for something that is clearly a crime (if true).

If you are confident of your facts and certain that you have prayed this through before God, then you SHOULD go to the following website:

https://tips.fbi.gov/

And ask for an investigation.

I AM VERY SERIOUS and not joking at all.

[vanguard]

The Property was under Phil Bonasso's name and the church name. We do not know how he did it, because when transferring a property to MSI, Phil needs the approval of Rice and Steve . BUT that did not happen according to the public record. It was only Phil's name. ANd yes this is already submitted to the FBI and the IRS, Last year.

Even the Communique that was sent by the EN Board members to all senior pastors where they ADMITTED that they cannot even balance the books and Phil Bonasso being overpaid by 66%. Rice at 33%.

During the January conference, the EN board admitted that not all the money that was supposed to go to mission went to missions. Phil Bonasso also admitted of having a salary of $603,000 with only a 150 member. He draws his salary ONLY from EN.

ALL of THAT INFO , including the Public records and MORE has been sent to the FBI and the IRS. I spoke with the FBI , they told me it will take years to even look at the evidence , because of they are OVERLOAD.
It does not matter if its direct evidence. Thats what they told me. So that means I have to wait for our turn .

The FBI told me if this is juSt hearsay, they will NOT ENTERTAIN but if this is FACTS and EVIDENCES they WILL LOOK INTO IT.
And I told them I have facts and evidences even hundreds of senior pastors hearing them admitting it.

I gave it ALL TO the FBI and the IRS.

[vanguard]

We also DID CONSIDER SUING EN. A class action lawsuit. BUT the lawyer that we approached wants a $20,000 down first. Which we don't have. Thats why we have to turn to the FBI and the IRS.

And we do know that Phil Bonasso has done is CRIMINAL. the problem is, EN BOARD refused to do anything about it. And the last communique, According to EN board. Phil Bonasso took around $40,000 or $50,000 unaccounted money from EN.
That as I said, was sent to the FBI and the IRS.

They knew the Phil Bonasso is a CROOK. And Nothing has been done by the EN board. Thats why some of us are Posting here.

[vanguard]

Here is some more, PUBLIC RECORD. We got Phil Bonasso ON TAPE ASKING FOR CASH DONATION ONLY FOR WORLD PARTNER. AND he said that he is going to send it to Rey Corpuz. Well, I know Rey Corpuz. So I emailed him, I asked him if he ever received any money from Phil Bonasso or World Partner. First he said , he is not part of World partner second he never received any money from phil Bonasso or world Partner.

The email and the tape was also sent to FBI and the IRS. thats called FRAUD.

[jonmoseley]

I would agree with what the FBI said, cautioning you that there needs to be hard facts.

When I accept clients as a lawyer, and I believe generally in their case, and want to help them, I STILL have a great deal of trouble (always) making them understand the HARD EVIDENCE that is necessary. It takes a great education and change in thinking to understand that their beliefs are very loose and imprecise, and DO NOT qualify as evidence.

So I would not jump to any conclusions.

HOWEVER... IF you have something real and provable, then you gave up too soon on searching for a lawyer.

Finding an appropriate lawyer can be VERY HARD, and you CANNOT believe that your first experiences will be true of ALL lawyers.

There ARE lawyers that will take such cases on contingency (meaning you pay nothing unless they win, except some filing fees and expenses).

However, you have to FIND those kinds of lawyers. Generally speaking they are geared up to do LOTS of debt-collection, medical malpractice, personal injury (car accident) cases on contingency so that they can afford to win some, lose some.

However, a lawyer will be investing his own money (working capital) and will have to be CONVINCED that the case has a good chance of winning.

So, once again, you have to be certain that you have SOLID evidence, not a lot of theory or assumptions or circumstantial coincidences. If you want to convince a lawyer to take your case on a contingency fee basis, you have to show him that you have the case SOLID and NAILED DOWN in terms of the facts of the case.

I would be concerned that you have waited too long. However, a theory called a "constructive trust" or some other creative approaches may get around the statute of limitations

[zadieboy]

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