What about VLIENLI

[leovaldes (leovaldes)]

What's going on with the VLI/ENLI internet platform... weird!

[ginger1 (ginger1)]

Several years ago, when Phil Bonasso and Leo Lawson "adopted" VLI, they started to teach junk.
The things that was being taught in the philippines is totally opposite of what being taught here in America.

After a few years, Steve Murrell came and discovered that, upset with all the junk that Leo Lawson brought in to VLI. He eliminated half of being taught by Leo Lawson. and replaced half of it from the philippines.

The most current ones, ALL of the VLI teachings and curriculum are being replaced. Leo Lawson was asked to step down, probably due to the junk he taught and brought to VLI. EN announces that Leo Lawson is on "sabbatical" that means he will never be the director any longer.

I was told, the most recent curriculum that will be replace are from HP. Don't know for sure yet though. Once it out, we'll see.

[ulyankee (ulyankee)]

leovaldes, do you mean what is going on with VLI/ENLI Online? If you don't mind my asking, are you enrolled, and if so, are there issues that you are seeing with the online courses?

blessings,
ulyankee

[dust (dust)]

Ginger, I looked at VLI online.....looks like the same classes that I took.

[ginger1 (ginger1)]

Don't know. I got those info from EN overseas. Not america.

[ulyankee (ulyankee)]

The registration procedure looks different now. It used to be that you could enroll and pay completely online. Now there is a PDF doc that you have to fill out and send in with your tuition, and have your pastor sign the following waiver if you are a member of an ENC church:

I am aware that this student is not able to attend a live Every Nation Leadership Institute course of study. I give my approval for this student to take the course of study directly from the Nashville office in a correspondence format.

Obviously taking classes in the local church is the preferred method of instruction/impartation. Also obviously it isn't 100% the individual's choice whether to take classes online but has to be approved by the pastor if the person is in an EN church.

In addition, based on what the registration form states new students don't take ENLI online anymore but by correspondence. Students receive DVDs and texts twice a semester. It looks like existing students can still use the online format but that new students take the new ENLI Anywhere correspondence courses. Is there anyone in ENLI who can confirm this?

(Message edited by ulyankee on December 24, 2005)

[ulyankee (ulyankee)]

GG, you said "EN announces that Leo Lawson is on "sabbatical" that means he will never be the director any longer." Is he still in EN, but just not teaching, or do you know?

[dust (dust)]

I do know one story about Leo Lawson.. A wonderful, young couple finished the graduate school in California...they felt called by the Lord to go for a "season" to an Older pastor in a different ministry and serve him, (small town, small church) for six months. They intended then to rejoin back with campus ministry. They were shown the door and told they could NEVER COME BACK.

I know this couple; I know their character, their heart, their love for Jesus Christ. What kind of nonsense was this. They seriously hurt this couple. Good news. The couple remains strong in the Lord. This is a "covenant" control which completely overrides God in a believer's life. They supposedly taught this couple to "hear from God" and the Holy Spirit. When they did, they were cast out. What is the sin for the casting out? They flew from from BONDAGE, and it's actually amazing that after grad school, they could still be FREE in CHrist!

[ulyankee (ulyankee)]

They supposedly taught this couple to "hear from God" and the Holy Spirit.

One of things that I realized as we were trying to gracefully and Biblically exit EN was that if it isn't confirmed by the person over you, then it is assumed that you aren't hearing from the Holy Spirit at all. In fact, for a while my husband became convinced that I was hearing from Satan, even though we had at first approached our church AS ONE in what we were seeing and hearing. He was told that b/c he didn't hear from the Holy Spirit directly but that I did (the Holy Spirit told me directly that we needed to LEAVE, and LEAVE immediately), then it meant that it wasn't the Holy Spirit at all, even though he agreed that LL's teachings in particular were HERETICAL. I was there for the LL teaching in our church (my husband wasn't there for that service), I heard what he said, I got it on tape and listened again to make sure, and I presented it to my husband, at home, as Scripture teaches wives to do. The response when we then brought it to our church together was that even though we thought it was unbiblical, that we couldn't leave spiritual family, that what MSI/EN leaders teach wasn't a valid reason to leave, and it seems my husband was additionally led to believe I was being deceived by an unclean spirit (it was implied that perhaps I had a "religious spirit" keeping me from accepting LL's teachings), and possibly even Satan himself. Not exactly a reassuring bedtime conversation with one's spouse that perhaps I was hearing from Satan for questioning unbiblical teachings, when initially my husband was the one who asked me to continue in my research and study. Fortunately, we left anyway and we've come back together in this regard, slowly.

Scripture does talk about the importance of Godly counsel. For example, Proverbs 12:15: The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice.

However, one of the differences between the Old Testament and the New is that we as believers can have direct access to God through Christ, by the Holy Spirit, the Counselor Jesus sent who would be with us until the end of the age. And in no case will wise counsel, whether it be by the Holy Spirit speaking to us directly or by others hearing from the Holy Spirit, EVER contradict Scripture, or EVER lead us back into the bondage of legalism. Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians... Paul warned them all about the same thing. Galatians 5:1 - Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Paul said that anyone who leads believers back into bondage are FALSE BRETHREN - Galatians 2:4. Not my words, but the apostle Paul's, a true and foundational apostle.

Praise God this couple heard from the Lord, heeded Him and did exactly as Scripture said, and did not go back into a bondage that Christ NEVER INTENDED!!!

(Message edited by ulyankee on December 24, 2005)

[coppertree (coppertree)]

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Hi All,
Thank you for post Ul about Gal.2:4, and Gal 3 : 1-6. When Maranatha was breaking up, an very excited guest pastor came to teach us. He had heard from the Holy Spirit and preached from these verses.
" You foolish Galatians who has bewitched you...', and ..This is one thing I want to find out from you : did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law?....Are you so foolish? Having being begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"
The pastor was very hopeful that we would see and be set free. But It went over our heads, as we furiously wrote down very thing he said. We wanted to show ourselves approved.

Ginger, was this church that Leo was involved with in Texas? Thank you for your research and work. You have done a lot!

[40days40years (40days40years)]

copper I left before the breakup but I was always thinking about Galations 3.

I mean it is so beyond obvious that it applies to Maranatha. Why was change so hard to implement when the church was filled with sincere christians who have the Holy Spirit in them? It is like trying to punch through concrete with your fists I still find the no repentance thing amazing with these ministries.

[ginger1 (ginger1)]

Ulyankee. The only thing I know is that once a person in EN goes through sabbatical, they NEVER comes back. So far EN is mum about leo lawson stepping down. I also know that some of the Philippine ministers are upset with what Leo Lawson curriculum, its all junk and worthless. Can you imagine all these people who graduated VLI , spend all these money and time on junks. And they even have a "certificate" for it ? Certificate of VLI junk. Do you think EN will admit their years of mistakes ? and return all those money ? Nooooo, its all cover up once again.

Copper, Its not in Texas. Somewhere in midwest, I don't remember where.

[formermaranathapastor (formermaranathapastor)]

Redemption- Thanks for your post. Please share as much of your personal story as possible as this will help many who are still caught in the web of EN. It will also be healing for you.

[ginger1 (ginger1)]

Interesting. I was told by an Asian pastor, a lot of the curriculum was brought in by LEO. And most of them junk. But it does not matter, the conclusion is the early VLI are garbage, non essential stuff.
I know Phil has no influence on any of the curriculum, he is too lazy . He just trusted Leo. His concern is only on power and money. mostly Money. Heck he gave up his parental duties and gave it to Tony Fetchel. How much more on VLI ?

I also know the Phillipine VLI curriculum also constantly evolved. But most of the time its added and enhance. Its very different from VLI USA. The VLI USA has no influence to VLI philippines whatsoever. The stuff being taught here will not even pass Steve Murrell or even Jun Escosar radar.

This is something I am wondering about. I know VLI started in the philippines and they do not have School campus Ministry. Why was School campus Ministry even started ? Whats its for ?

[lc_20 (lc_20)]

Redemption,
This lines up with my memories also. Although all the teaching materials had our local head pastor as the author, the titles and the promotional materials for the VLI classes all seemed to come from Bethel and MSI. They claimed they were in the process of becoming an accredited school through Peter Wagner. The classes all had the same titles as the classes from Bethel and many of the MSI/EN people from Bethel came to give weekend classes. Over the years, classes that we did have that Bethel did not have were dropped.

I also remember when it became manditory for members of our church to go to the LA for training if they wanted to go into ministry. Some came back with stories about Leo. One person said that he made her denounce her previous knowledge of Jesus from a different church so she could have a real salvation experience and made her get baptised again. She was very upset when she got home. She said she tried many times to tell them that she was already a christian and had a relationship with Jesus but with the pressure, she finally admitted that she never knew Jesus and let them baptize her again. She said she felt like she rejected Jesus during this process. From what I heard, she was shamed and manipulated there.

Toward the end of my stay in MSI/EN, they started really advertising VLI as teaching from EN leaders showing video clips of Phil and Jim teaching. But, the teachers that they found for us locally were completely untrained and unprepared. The last VLI class I took was a joke. The teacher was obviously just teaching for brownie points with the leaders and didn't care about his topic or his students. He cancelled several of our classes and the final and said he would give us all A's if we didn't complain. Jokingly, he said we were all just there for the grade anyway. So, I paid good money for about 4 classes from a completely unprepared and uninterested teacher. Afterwards, this "powerful evangelist" was "sent out" and promoted.

[40days40years (40days40years)]

redemption you said about Leo: Big breakdown of logic here: instead of minimizing his influence, he was placed in a postition where 90% of the hundreds of young new MSI staff over the past seven years have been trained trained by him.

That is pretty funny I am chuckling right now. I know I should'nt laugh that decision most likely caused a lot of pain. How do these college grads think like this?

lc_20 I guess you missed out on having Phil teach you, you have me chuckling to. I remember in Maranatha when a girl there had fallen into sin and was found out. They had her stand in front of the congregation and she admitted she had not been a christian after being pressured by new leadership. I did not believe it and later she changed her mind and agreed with me. It was a really big sin she committed and at least saying she was not saved was an easy out. This happened after our old pastor left on a project but fell into sin which prevented him from coming back. The new guy in counseling was also asking me if I was a christian and putting pressure on me to say I was'nt but I stood my ground because I made a conscious decision earlier to repent and follow Jesus and the Holy Spirit was there in great power when it happened. You ever notice that when a new leader comes in they are like the new sheriff in town sometimes it is like that at work to. Same old macho games.