Why Some Every Nation Pastors Do Not Want You Here

[speakword2004]

-some are embarrassed that EveryNation is being discussed at a cult forum
-some may believe that all of this is just gossip and therefore ungodly. They need to provide a reasonable defense on this one.
-some may not want the truth to be exposed as they have committed sin or have financial interests which they do not want to expose
-they may have been told by more senior leaders to tell people not to come here and are blindly following that lead.
-some of the ideas and theories posted here make people flinch for whatever reason.
-some EN leaders know that there is truth here but some is not accurate and they are concerned about accuracy
-accuracy issue are just a smokescreen
-people read here and elsewhere about the dysfunctions of EN and then go back with questions to their leaders. The leaders can not handle this, or have no good answers or are afraid to ask other leaders in case they are seen as problem makers
-it is too much to handle
-some leaders in EN have adopted a policy of not responding to either internal or external criticism
-so many things are happening within EN that another voice just adds more pressure
-ENs failure to repsond to Factnet reveals volumes
-many Christians believe that when it comes to leadership one should remain silent and just walk away and that the individual believer whilst prompted by the Holy Spirit, should not speak out individually, but wait for the miraculous
-prayer is more important

Many pastors are alos genuinely concerned about their flock, but may not be equiped to deal with these situations etc.

-some may feel that the few voices that do post here may indicate that dissent is small and does not warrent a repsonse. This is not true. People from across the globe are realising similar problems, patterns and issues. Many people do not post here as they would rather discuss issues one-on-one or away from this forum

[jayhernandez]

To address some of these issues or even all of them would truly signify their contribution within the Body of Christ. Often times we might cringe to think that if we address these issues to the general public that we would in fact be bowing down to that public. This would be out of order when comparing Gods people and the general public. Looking at it from a cultural point of view, those cautiously considering the solution, refuse to be held accountable by fundamentalist. This is part reason for the stubborn herding and secrecy among the leadership. This is pushing them further and further into a sector of Christianity that sets out to stand ground as one being attacked. What is cultural and is not- Christianity in many ways is not being understood within the framework in America. To have to come clean would in many minds bring confusion on the Gospel. To reform would be best. Yet without recognizing that the reformation is not done without considering the cultural shift and done in maintaining scriptural integrity. To hook on to culture here often times seems that logic is the best avenue. To speak in other cultures, as missionaries do, it is easy to see that often times those areas we Americans hold dear, they see as boring. In America to be served a dish of prosperity, blind faith, mystery, excitement, etc. can be quite intriguing. To serve a Gospel that is both intriguing here in the states as it is abroad in the mission field has equal results. A Gospel like this is seen as filtered and universal- it is seen as the New Testament church and in most cases "the fullness of time" or Pentecostal. However, does it really stand in the light? Are all our American scholars truly beating themselves up trying address with the truth- both sides saying, "they just don't get it". Would the legalistic Christian eventually talk himself into believing this universal truth or does God appeal to us in different ways around the world? I believe he does. People in other parts of the bible love reading the Old Testament and can clearly see the Word of the Messiah to come. This does not however makes the New Testament irrelevant. One body. Has there ever been a time when the body of Christ was divided? Not so. If today we can surely see the inability to the relevancy of the issues at hand regarding "the sake of the Gospel" then one must come to consider truly, the fullness of time. Consider the culture- this is not just generations of tomorrow but of today. How much of today has entered the church. The culture does not lead the church and yet others are asking for answers from within the body of Christ. Will we get them?

[for_christ]

jayhernandez

You're saying a lot here...what exactly is your point? I take serious issue with your statement about bowing down to the general public. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, but the people largely criticizing the church are ex-members. It is because we believe in Christ that we take issue with EN's practices. I would be careful to separate God's people with the general public. We are all God's people. It is exactly that exclusivity that gives Morning Star its cultish tendencies and blind followers.

[jayhernandez]

I see. I think it's becasue but I started ironically but at the same time tried to make a clear statement of what it is we are see in regards to EN.

I placed myself in the shoes of a group that when push comes to shove don't see the body of Christ in America as relevant on doctrinal issues especially if those teachings don't agree with oldfashioned out of date church of the past.

I also tried to bring to light a subculture existint and understandable with a world culture parallel. In a shell-if I had to place En in to a group (culture) to be best understood it would be POP-Culture. If so, it makes a statement. If it stands the test of time- I'm sorry to say this but we've seen groups in the past who have called that a testimony.

To shrug this off is clearly the limited view of who the body of Christ is. In this way it can be understood that thier refusal has more to do with pride and not just dealing with people who are to smart for thier own good.

Whether consciouse or not- this is what they believe. If the peoples in other countries except it then it must mean that we just aren't yeilding!
yeilding to what? Yeilding to thier calling!

If the people here in America were considered then we would be considered accordingly. If this is so, as it is today, then what does that say about the both of us?

Basically, there is a divide. It's like trying to ask my ex wife who is remarried to say she was sorry for something she did to her husband. Who am I anayway!

[lc_20]

"Basically, there is a divide. It's like trying to ask my ex wife who is remarried to say she was sorry for something she did to her husband. Who am I anayway!"

Jay,
If you knew your ex had abused your children and you suspected she had not changed and she was now abusing her children with her new husband. Would you say something then?

[ginger1]

jay, I am sorry to disagree with you. Thats how a serial rapist gets away, was because it was never reported. People were embarassed some are scared to report, but there are people like me have dared to report it and post it.

The Asian EN Board are NOT being pushed to the corner and feel they are being attacked. There is no point, people like me do asked them question and have open discussions and they do answer it publicly. Due to years of Paranoia of the US EN Board , they were pushed to the corner. It was also their own doing that they abused the people. And they cannot be trusted. I certainly do not trust any of them. With several testimonies coming from each one of them from their own church. Not just one, but several people stories of abuse frome these US EN BOARD churches.
I remember when I was there, People in there would spread fear of the public. Example I had to homeschool me kids because there is a fear that public school kids are bad kids and it will affect my children. So everybody homeschool their kids in there.It was a created paranoia enviroment.
Another example, other churches are Bad because people in there sleep around or gets divorce a lot. We are in the cutting edge, so we are better.
DO NOT DATE/MARRY other christians of other churches , because they have a different belief. Your marriage will fail.
Because of the box that these senior pastors created, everybody lives in that box. Anybody who step out will be persecuted.

Heck, they even hired a PR to make them looked good. What does Jesus say about that ? White washed tombs. A good church /ministry does not need a PR, it speaks for itself. My current church is pretty well known in the philippines and Peter Wagner's circle has been around for over 50 years. We have never hired a PR firm and have never had a scandal like these in EN. IT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. Did Jesus ever need a PR ? Wasn't Jesus is the one who welcomed public, without fear that He would be affected. Jesus believed that Its His Holiness that will affect the people. Not the way around.

[ginger1]

In US EN, these Leaders are so afraid that the unbelievers and other denominations will contaminate them. They do not like the public, a created fear they put on themselves. I wondered for a long time, Jesus was never afraid that He get contaminated, instead He believes that it was His Holiness that will affect the people around Him, He let the people touched Him. We as christians are supposed to be Christlike and act the same thing. it was the Pharasees who did the exact opposite of what Jesus did. Alienation and Elitism.

Jesus was also pushed around, but He was never pushed to a corner and start alienting Himself.

[ginger1]

In the Asian EN Board, there was never a Fear of Errors/Mistakes. They would freely admit it. Was there criticism ? Of course, there are always people criticizing, the way to minimized it was to have an open discussion. Questions asked, question answered. Jesus is a very Transparent person, and The Asian EN Board are known for their transparency.Do we get that from the US EN Board ? NO. Instead, for several years it was a run around. When questions was asked, you get persecuted for even asking the questions. There was never a transparency due to Fear of Criticism. Jesus was criticized and yet He is still transparent.

So this whole issue is about Christlikeness. Are the US EN Board being Christlike ?

I do personally get a lot of hate email and criticism. It does not mean I am back to a corner and alienate the EN people. In fact, I also get emails from EN pastors and regular people, that does not criticize me and asked for information. I get both kinds from EN.

[jayhernandez]

Ic,

That is exactly my point. I would say something! It seems to me that abuse in all areas has taken place over the years. To not have this made available information is simply uncomprehendable. FactNet is serving well but there are literally thousands who aren'ty being informed.

Understand the context in which I wrote it in. For one it's visible if all the post is read. But let me in short tell you that I have pulled out a few months ago. Basically I was able to the red flags. Praise be to God.