New members

[jayhernandez]

It was really difficult starting a new thread in light of the fact that most of what can be understood about EN can be understood in seeing the roots and begininings of EN in the Maranatha days etc., but like myself I really don't have much to add since I wasn't there.

As I come to read I find mostly familiar faces.
Very helpful indeed.

It occured to me that there are probably many who come here who don't respond accordingly (because when it comes to the history there is plenty to read)and then those who have asked questions that seek answers according to the process (-a place in thier walk that they find themself today). Confused, abused, resentful, and/or asking fundamental questions of doctrine or "who knows today what I've gone through". Some seeking to find others who have gentle spirtual guidance and a recent story. In every case and instance those who post here CAN shed light on any question that someone might ask. Here is a place to ask it.

I have questions too but don't like to post on other thread and completely shift gears in mid-conversation. If this is you, you might want to start by asking virtually anything or by giving your story.

Jay the peacmaker

[ezekiel_37]

Hi Jay

[upcase20]

I was there in the building up days. I've done my research. I like to be direct, to the point, and staightforward. No matter how much sugar coating you put on it, I still think it's a cult, and don't trust any of the leadership.

[40days40years]

That does it bud, were taking your planet back.

[jayhernandez]

Hey Ezekiel!

Hey Upcase! I'm with you on this one. But you be surprised to know that I am especially if you haven't seen it by now. I suppose this why I started this thread. To my surprise you responded this way.

40days! Howdy! Same to you. If the planet your talking about is one you think you've seen me embrace, then let me tell you I've never had it. You can keep it. Sounds like you still have a little EN in you. I suppose this is why EN people can come here and shrug this off as just resentment.

Maybe a thread should be something like, "Don't listen to people who post here, they don't listen anyway". Obviously you haven't read anything I've written. Do I need to have been there in those days to have the juice you might want to read about. I address the issues a little differently but given my association, it stands to reason. We aren't to answer the fool according to the Question! If they want to resist the Truth then how can we address the reasons we post here. It's clear there is still some healing to take place.

Just for the benefit of a doubt I suppose I can start by giving my story. Even if it serves those who haven't been involved for years or years ago.

Obviously it's needed. Not my story exclusively but that there are people who can respond with out bias.

[jayhernandez]

Here it is:

A series of events brought me back to question a walk my father did his best at, and a love that could have kept my marriage together. My search had begun with every sort of spiritualism imaginable. I tried everything from reading self-help books and chanting Hindu stuff and from Shaman to going to yoga classes. The last thing I wanted was Christianity. In one of the books I read it said that in order to be free I needed to learn my childhood history; I needed to learn my weakness and tendencies. At the time this thought was new. I was impressed and scared at the same time. I was going to have to pry into my past. As it was I didn’t remember much of it. I thought I might have blocked it out. Something kids do if they’ve gone through something difficult. That also meant I needed to see the flaws in my family. I had to be closer to do that (I thought) and I had to do it before they died. (I’m glad to say that both my parents were alive otherwise this book would not have worked for me. It would have turned out to be just another dead end road-just like everything else up until then.) At about that time I began to open my military issued Gideon’s bible. The search was gaining momentum. Though still un-solidified, the Truths in the bible were practical. To me this way of understanding the bible seemed to be absolute and yet unfamiliar to my family. I had to go back and tell them how to really read the bible. Criticism of church had begun. And pointing fingers at my parents over my childhood had begun. My family got the bad end of the deal.

The Uhaul was packed. I’d said the byes to my hippie friends and to my college professors. There was one last thing to do. I had to say bye to California. (I’m not romanticism any of what I did.) For one last time I needed to sit on the beach of San Diego with guitar in hand to have one last cigarette. That night I made a pack with Mother Nature and the Higher Being. If they showed me the way…I would dedicate my music to the both of them. (It was the very last time I made a pack of that sort.)

Note: Just to give you an idea of where my journey was at the time. I think it’s kinda funny now but only because it was ridiculous. I picked up 3 rocks. I thru one into the ocean that night. The second in the Arizona desert. The other in the woods of the Midwest. I said a prayer each time. Why? I suppose it made sense at the time. Some earth/energy combination thing I made up. I figured if my intentions were good that the right forces or sources of energy would take notice. On my way back east I stopped at some Vortex sites in Arizona that people claim you can feel energy around. Wow. You can say that again! I moved back with all sorts of jumbled ideas. Mysticism, New Age, relative truth, etc., I was on a spiritual assent- I was becoming a “seer” as one Ancient Toltec author put it. I was on cloud nine.

[jayhernandez]

Going to church wasn’t first on my list of things to do when I got home but I began going. My religion had begun to taken a new shape. Mean while my brother was back in California plugging away in an EN church. Ever committed and defiantly changed. (External anyway-we never saw him for any length of time.) Every time he came home to visit, he was asked to speak to the youth in various churches. I saw that as good, so did everyone else. I had no reason to suspect anything. I had begun praying for him. He’d always bring back CD’s and play it for us. He listened to them all the time. I mean he’d memorized some bits word for word. I made copies and eventually I was able to do the same. In time I felt like I knew the pastors personally… that’s how often I heard the CD’s. Rice Brooks, Phil B, Jim L and the gang. The Prophets! Wow. I had to meet them.
A year passed since I’d retuned to my family. I’d gone through the churches, the sermons, the praying, the sorting, the forgiving and asking for forgiveness. Finally it all came home with “Christ at the Cross”. I started going to one church regularly even though I still had hopes of finding a church that spoke like the pastors of EN. During that time I was kind of drifting from church to church. Every church I visited I went in search of “finding my people”. I was had become convinced that I had to move to a bigger city to get close to that people. I thought I had to find an EN church. The Truth is that I didn’t really know what to seek for in a people. I had hit up every church in the phone book or so it seemed. Nothing in my hometown fit the bill. Everyone was lazy or too strict. Despite the immaturity, I do remember I was willing to get involved. I thought I had his lordship settled. I spoke to almost everyone I encountered. I sought out the opportunity to do so. If I had any amount of time with someone, I’d share with (or preach at) him or her. Then my brother invited me to Campus Harvest.

I’m not a superstitious person anymore… I had caught a cold the night before we left for Campus Harvest. I was bummed out that whole weekend because I couldn’t get caught up in the energy of it all, the music, the preaching, the trip there, or the tapping into the fluttering of the crowd. For the first time I saw things a little differently. I just couldn’t place it yet. I really wanted to do Latin Missions and so I went to a classroom to hear more about it. I wasn’t personally invited to go be part of the supposedly Latin Mission training in Florida but I sure felt like I was. Shortly after that weekend in North Carolina I did just that. I had my sights on Florida.

[jayhernandez]

< Hindsight: My parents saw how proud I was to show them the CD’s. They also knew what I’d soon find out. They knew I was naïve but not ignorant. I was 34 and accomplished. One thing we did know is that I didn’t know everything. I sought the Truth. What more could they ask for. They knew I was still open and learning. They also knew I was going to be led in, around and through it. They were wise enough to let God do the work in me. They didn’t try shove “mom and dads God” down my throat. (Not like they had when I was a kid.) I just hadn’t embarked on the seriousness that denominational differences really are important to understand, even though they tried to tell me. I think its cause I had it in my mind I was suppose to go. The only difference is that they had a grace about it. I had faith. I didn’t know it intellectually then but in Spirit I did. They told me not only with details of scripture reading and translation but mostly in the way they lived. The people they had become. They spoke a thousands words with it. I love them and was grateful for them. I still am!
I asked myself- why hadn’t I heard it? Why hadn’t I seen it? Did I still have such a familiar distance from my parents that they were scared to tell me not to go? I just didn’t know and they knew it. >

I was sent off with my parents blessing and the churches prayer. I got to my destination and was just as ready as my roommate was to “conquer the world”, as my roommate always put it. Boy, I had the lingo down with the help of the CD’s. I didn’t like using the word champ though. It was never used in a good greeting-something someone wanted always followed. A vice. A mantra. A dog whistle. I’d seen this before in the military. I didn’t think I was going to have to prove myself. After all, I had moved from Illinois to be there and when I got there I was already trying to get involved. I met the criteria in my book. If a person said, “Christ was Lord” then you need to back it up with action. I was there to do that. I did it back home. There was no difference except for the element of being taught Latino Mission. There wasn’t an organized approach to studying it back home. BTW: I didn’t learn a lick of it while I was there.

[jayhernandez]

My roommate was a VLI grad/church staff. Within days of arriving we were having a causal conversation about speaking in tongues. I had questions but never imagine I was going to be told I needed to “speak in tongues”. I disagreed. I knew what Christ did at the Cross was everything. I knew EN practiced this but I didn’t care. Once I was told I needed too I explained why I didn’t. The conversations tone escalated became hostile. I had seen this in other conversations with people in other religions but this was new, never had I seen it among Christians. I was bewildered and cautions. I thought my roommate had been miss-informed. Then I began to think maybe I was wrong. I never questioned my salvation but my roommate couldn’t get past it. Somehow they were connected to salvation- he kept bringing it up. Because he did I kept going to what salvation was. When I thought he had it- I tried to move to the scriptures regarding the needing to “Speaking in Tongues” he tried to say was in there. We never got that far.

< Note: Up until this point, denominational differences weren’t something I was too concerned with. I don’t think every church the same but I had already gone through a stage of criticizing the church I grew up in. I had come to a point where I saw a need in every church. I had already done an extensive study on world religions and figured out the golden key for each of them. BTW: That is only possible to do in a lifetime- through having tasted the goodness of God. I was going to find out that all denominations have their golden key as well.
Speaking in tongues was just one of the many things I tried to address. If we (as a church) get the book of Acts wrong we’ll get it all wrong. If you get Christ right though you get the Whole of the Word. >

I thought maybe I came on too strong. I know I didn’t mean too. After all, if I had known he really believed it and not just miss-informed; I would have been more tactful. I realize now that a persons religion can be like a stack of toothpicks. Each on end and on top of each other that lead to heaven and if you move one of them, their world comes crashing down.

I asked around and each time got the same result: hostility and peer pressure. The only reason as I see it is that in their eyes I wasn’t even a peer. The peer pressure proved this. I had no reason to think I’d eventually plunge into a study of doctrinal difference but when I was told I should probably leave, I did. I tried to get my hand on every side possible. I didn’t want to be bias to what I had been taught up until that time. I was told by the pastors’ wife that I “shouldn’t do that because I’d just create doubt”. This reminded me of the Jehovah witness. They take great care in not reading any material that would create doubt. If Christ was the Way, the Truth, and the Life what had I to be afraid of? Red flags were going up everywhere. What finally did it for me was being told that I had no business addressing these things to people on a “different platform”. What? In so many words I was told I wasn’t staff or the chain of command. I was in the military and I knew what authority does to people if promoted to soon. I knew what hierarchy was and I wasn’t going to by it. When I heard that I told them I was staff whether they recognized it or not. I was in the body!

[jayhernandez]

I later realized that if it was soooooo awesome to feel (inducing the Spirit) and detrimental to my walk, then they’d have done more and just the opposite to show it. I was told that I just wasn’t yielding. Hello, I wasn’t at VLI! Take me to the word! Not once was I taken to the word. Instead I was given the Purple Book. BTW: hadn’t I yielded when I surrendered my life to God? Hadn’t the evidence been the change in my life. I’d seen this before in my study of the Mormon religion: “Christ? Yea, but do you know Joseph Smith!?!

Clearly I didn’t go to be part of a church with my own expectations and dispositions. I was told I had. I knew I hadn’t. Just a thought: I can expect to be surprised if a person says they are Christian and swears in the same sentence- I’ll be surprised to say the least. I also expected to be greeted like family.

I obviously had questions but one thing I did know is that Christ at the Cross was first in everything. I’d seen per pressure in a new way.

One most obvious ways I know that I didn’t have my own personal (human) expectation is that what I learned… could not have been choreographed. I had Christ at the Cross understood. But there was still more. It was His resurrection. It was Hope. One in the same! Christ at the Cross isn’t without his resurrection. With this I had a deeper sense of understanding. This helped to address the issues of the day. The things I learned affected every part of my walk with God for a positive, from a positive. I saw Christ wash his disciples feet. I saw that if Christ is first in a persons life, then and only then could all else could be suspended for observation. I went because I didn’t care. I didn’t care only because I’d never heard any CD’s said that I had too. If I had, the study might have taken place back home. Then maybe I hadn’t have gone. But to say that I hadn’t yielded or that I had my own expectations is to say ‘look follow me”. It’s to say “your not the Guru I am”. It’s to say I’ve been holding back on God! I know what that means- it means that I haven’t picked up my Cross. I’m not following!

Hope. This is what I had been waiting to see! I didn’t see in contrast to a bad church. I saw it according to his glory and it was gracefully done. Glory to God. I seen it cause I was finally shown it but only because I wanted to see it. When I saw the attitude behind what was being said, I knew there was a need to understand it. Be it EN or the church down the road it doesn’t matter. It’s there for anyone to understand. This is why I don’t resent EN. I know that God is a God of process. Why did it take EN? It didn’t.

I now find myself familiar with a group that feels they have the cutting edge social adapted and relevant to the culture (pop culture), gospel. I know how they came to this conclusion without having known their history. I know it now but only because I’ve come here and read it. Either way it’s inconsistent to the attitude (fruits of the spirit) of a Christian. I was sad to come here and see having gone on for so long. I was both shocked but grateful that God spoke and that I was led out. What I’ve read here is consistent with what I’ve experienced in only 6 months there. And it’s consistent with what my brother experienced in a California EN. I’ve seen how dangerous it can be. I see the need to get the word out. I won’t deny there was a time I had no clue about Christ or EN for that matter but this isn’t where I find myself today. I’ve moved on. Coming here doesn’t disprove that. No doubt about it. I’m just more educated as to the golden keys in Christian denominations.

[jayhernandez]

However boldly it would be to say they are a cult, I could, but I also know that there are sincere people who have at one time given their life to Christ and nothing we as individuals could take us back out. If I had the power to do that then “God have mercy”.
I couldn’t know mercy. This insecurity runs ramped there.

I’ve seen how a person associates an internal experience to an external. A person gets saved in a church and says “this is where I got saved…this must be where I need to stay”. Shortly after they are led astray by wrong teachings and because tapping into the Spirit is considered the last frontier. This is why I address the doctrine of man. Not the individual. Addressing people there at EN from my point of view is limited to this- I don’t know of legal issue. I had my own suspicions when I was there but it was only evident in seeing “the hidden agenda”.

I’ve seen how most have never pressed through what I call “Prayer A.D.D.”. They are left starving only to find themselves “praying in tongues” for hours and hours. Never really maturing but get promoted. They either fall away (filtered out) or despise Christianity because “something” just didn’t work (after all the preacher said “I can have a Victory filled life”, but reality kept surfacing it’s ugly little head).

Victory is already won!

I do feel it important to tell others about their teachings. But what they teach isn’t limited to EN. Understanding this allows a person to address it without resentment. Most of the world is trying to shout opposite and louder then rocks that there is no God. I take it personal but I don’t resent it. I understand it.

[jayhernandez]

Anything that isn’t sound doctrine must be addressed. When I speak on anything that would be opposed to the Word of God- I address everything that is opposed to God. There is point of rest we can find but it’s never dependent of the ability of subsiding the reality of a fallen world. Sure God intervenes in our life but the words of David are just as real. People are too busy trying to move the obstacles instead of asking for the grace to live among it and walk through it. Subsiding the wrong things. Believing in Christ also means believing the Creation account. The Garden. The fall. How does the Old and New Testament tie together? It’s all the Word of God! The human situation of the fallen world is just as real and even more real then just floating concepts that they real.


One thing I learn from my military days is that I needed to protect my mind. I wasn’t going to just “fake it, till you make”. I had been in the military for a number of years and knew to a certain degree what it did to me and even I could see to what degree it could be for others. I’m glad I served my country and knew the training was necessary to survival. I was young and impressionable too. I didn’t have my feet planted in Truth. I had no direction. Nothing strengthened my will. In reality I had no will of my own. I was molded without being alert. I was an above average Marine. I was tough and ready for a fight of any kind. I was also going with the flow. Now that I look back- I remember the faces of those who had a backbone. They seemed move by emotion. Just a bunch of Daises not fit for combat. But they always excelled (someone in charge knew the difference). For me, I was a foot soldier that didn’t want promoted. I’d rather roll around in the mud and take orders. It had it’s pro’s and con’s. The last thing I wanted to do was be part of anything that had its con’s. The people part with people issues I understood. But the way a person worships effect their reality of the world.

I could go on and on with the things I’ve learned but the learning is still going. Praise be to God.

J the peacemaker

[jayhernandez]

One last thing. I emailed my old roomate in Florida and told him in a few words that I'd had come here and that I intended to post. I had hoped that he'd come here and read some thing worth while. He was so far into it- I don't expect he'd make a complete change but now this. He isn't unfamilar to what people say here. I'm clearly opposed to what tey believe and stand for. If there has been a miss understanding in anything I've said then please show it too me. Otherwise just take a second and realize that there is a new generation out there and that there are more then one way of trying to get people to see the Truth. Ever speak to a Jehova Witness- they like to argue! This is how they learned it. Now they go out thiking that they need to beat it down everyones throat.

[jayhernandez]

Incredible

[upcase20]

Hi Jayhernandez : I see we have one thing in common, we are both military vets. I spent a lot of time in Europe, but do not want to elaborate for privacy concerns. Now let's see if I can get this post in because for the past few days my attempts to post have been blocked.

[upcase20]

Signs and wonders, amazing, I was able to get through with a post without being blocked this time.

[lc_20]

upcase, Are you using anonymouse.org to get in? That is the only way I can post now due to the aol issues.

[upcase20]

Boy this is tough. I'm going through anonymous.org now to post this. Any other way and I get the message, "Due to previous abuse your IP address has been banned from further use". With me posting is like a roll of the dice. Now let's see if this gets through.

[upcase20]

What a pain but I'm not giving up.

[jayhernandez]

upcase,

Is this all we have in common? How have I been so blind?

Don't get me wrong I'm not looking for a date. I'm not even looking for sympathy. What is left?

Who here understands that problems are prevented in any church with the sound doctrine. Has the details of this topic become so reletive that it isn't talked about much anymore?

People from within the leadership of En have seen the trend here. It appears that they come and ask questions regarding Doctrine. Thier response to yours is a line of forgivness and a quick verse. Yours counterresponse is refering them to the scandals. Think about this- if you provide scriptural evidences for any scandal(s), wouldn't that cause the virus from within much sooner then from a scandal point of view. Who from within is going to go ask a leader "guess what I heard?". But from a doctrine point of view the battle is won! When they ask for reform answeres and instead you ask for names and repentance then they have no reason to submit-they haven't ha d a change of mind. It's impossible for us to think from without the context of oursleves. This is why faith has to come to us. It does the changes. Be it once or many times that we hear the Word of God-faith comes. There is however one place we should all be able to meet. This is the Word. The inability to do so or willingless to try is evidence of memebership within th Body of Chirst at large.

I know I risk being stoned from either side when I speak this way. But I send the challenge to redirect your conversations around scripture.

From here both parties look irreconcilable.

Who knows maybe EN has you all so figured out they are just buying time by stringing you along. Especially if thier hoping that the resentful would just get over it. Think outside the box people. I know I do this at the risk of your credibility (you know who you are) but what is there if there is no God! Speak of him!

Jay the peacemaker

[ulyankee]

Jay, I agree with you, and I think several others do as well but you're right, I don't believe everyone does.

[upcase20]

When I left the church not only did I want to forget the doctrine I had learned there but I also wanted to throw out the scriptures I had learned there also, that's why I make no reference to scripture in any of my entries and will not. Perhaps I need to get back in the word, perhaps I need another church, but that is my spiritual state today. Based on the manipulation and power moves I observed at my church (which is still occurring), I no longer have an interest in that. Call it PMS, Post Maranatha Syndrome.

[jayhernandez]

God repented from destroying Nineveh. You don't suppose God repented and returned back to himself- do we?. We see that repentance is a change of mind. This change of mind is embodied by the substance of faith. The substance of faith keeps to Hope. Who can know the difference? Who has not asked this question? Honestly I don't see this war machine coming to a halt. since the beginning there has been lies. There have always been false prophets. This is no surprise to us. It certainly is to some though. Don't throw in the towel. This is exactly what an experience like some have had with EN can do. When it's all boiled down it is the lack of presence of the Holy Spirit. The very thing they pride themselves on.

Upcase thank you for that, we both know you didn't need too. Given your explanation I see that we have more in common then one. My brother doesn't have PMS but he has a rash. I speak to him occasionally and only occasionally because he's so fragile right now that he can't handle to much. I encourage you to visit a nut house ( for lack of a better term but to bring home a point) and see then how bad you have it. I'm not saying he's going nuts or anything I'm just saying that he isn't giving up and has realized that God exist well beyond what man can do or say. Most people who have experienced a church denomination of this type and have been able to pull out have always been effected in some way. Most have been dramatized by it. Some live with a thousand mile stare and never return. Other if lucky just stop going to church. In some cases the person realizes that their innocence has been broken and shattered but get back up to regain it. Lets get back up! Would ya man. Even if it little by little.

[jayhernandez]

(cut and pasted wrong this is the first half of the above post)

Ulyankee, a sincere thanks. I've understood that most probably won't agree. I'm fine with that. I was simply trying to understand what I was seeing happening here at factnet. It's sad to say but the Truth of the matter is that EN isn't going to recognize the folly or need for Scirpture. The failure to do so is what got them here to begin with. An attempt to recognize this need would have to be done outside of the context in which they understood the Word of God. An attempt to recognize the Word of God would require them to identify the man-pleasing and blindness. Not only that but losing a pension and support is at risk. This is the only way to see genuine repentance.
The word repentance in greek means more to the effect of a change of mind. Our traditional explaination of it has been explained as to "go from and too-God". We see that

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi All Catching up, we have been here before to Ul and Jay; God knows what will happen, if one thinks like Calvin, not Klien, of course. Lol Math does that to one; I hope for much more this time.}

[jayhernandez]

Coppertree,

I didn't catch that. what do you mean?

[john_r_jones]

Jay,
I read your post above and I thought I'd chime in for amoment. The posts that speak of misdeeds, or personal misadventures do have a purpose I suppose in bringing healing maybe if only to the one wounded. To have a place here to do so may be for some the only place available to vent. Painful outcries are an indicator of need, of the reality of a world at war spirutally as John Eldridge put it. Philip Yancey has authored several books on the issue one being "Soul Survivor, How my faith survived the church." Oddly enough I don't think the telling of tales as it were and your effective use of scripture to make a point about doctrine are at cross purposes. If I overindulge my self in either it's readily apparent, it's equally apparent that we all need grace for our journey. I personally could use a dumptruck load or two. I think the most telling of what we do is that it is done in truth, that we share in honesty about scripture or experience.
John

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
HI Jay, Thank you for your post back. I was making a pun; sorry it was not a good one. I was referring to John Calvin. The other comment was about being in this group and hoping for reformation, once before and maybe more. This day has been passed at least twice before. Calvin was a bit in that time frame, from reformation in Christian history. I hope this helps. I work on math projects, nerd humour of sorts.}

[jayhernandez]

John R Jones,

Well said. You Know what? Now that I think about it. I'm actually able to percieve that coming here reading and posting has been helpful, if not to others, to myself. Right off the get- all I did was read, unitl someone asked a question I thought I could help with. Then it grew from there. I've been ready to throw my hands up as well. But when UPCASE responed I then saw another group of people here and it, if you would, made me greatful for much. Grace as you said is the key.

You see, as soon as I was aware of what was going on at EN (before ever having come here to factnet) I began trying to address those issues as best I could. In considering them brother and sisters in Christ- I did it with the Word as best I could. It hardly ever got that far. I was told by one person that "I'm not the theologian type" when I tried to break bread with him. It was an excuse because truthfully he didn't know the Word on the topic for himself. Since I've pulled out it's been a matter of getting them to recognize the Body of Christ/The Word. When I came here and didn't see enough of it, of course with balance and humbly administering the Word, I began to ask what was going on. I've realized it not just a group of people trying to get them to recognize the Word, since there are those here who don't, and I'm cool with that, I just didn't know. If a person wants to believe in Zeus or Budda-then go for it- whatever blows thier hair back- but if someone wants to know about the only true and living God of the bible then I hope I can teach and learn more, even here!

I suppose I assumed everyone here would only really be concerned about EN and what happens there- if they are within the Body of Christ- who else would see the need. Certainly the lost aren't on this wavelength.

But here's the kicker! When I came here to factnet for the first time and read all the testimonies...numbers held no weight. I was able to see the familiarity of stories that matched up with guys I've known and heard of first hand. Now I'm convinced it's not a matter of herding the Body of Christ. Instead what these individuals need is to first recognize the Word of God concerning the church their involved with and that starts with the doctrine. If some have had true conversions and see the need there as well- then I encourage them to leave before they kciked out for speaking out or they compromise thier faith.

Grace. Only in grace will this be done without ending up with a bitter heart. There the balance is found to share your story and give biblical answeres to why.

[john_r_jones]

Jay,
thank you I enjoy your posts and your thoughtfulness.
John

[jayhernandez]

I was able to start this thread and with all regard for the wealth of information provided by those like you who come and share, preach and protest, let me remind us that this thread was started in good Spirit. In hopes of new members sharing their testimony, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
But this isn’t why I’ve retuned it this time: CultsOnCampus.com

There are so many threads to choose from but in consideration of New Members, primarily college age, I thought it good to retrieve this old thread and post a website that has just been brought to my attention. CultsOnCampus.com Although EN might not be here at least you can know which might exist at your college.


For anyone Vet or Newbie who knows how to inform this website, this is another way of letting not only parents know but students as well. I don't know much about computers- I haven't the slightest on how to include this factnet, or link to, or add to the list of groups and cults found there at Cults On Campus website.

NOTE:
For those who read and find my conversations about EN as confusing- the way I can regard them as brethren, then suggest that they are cult, let me explain that I do so very carefully.

It is my hope that on doctrinal issues these people will recognize doctrinal issues. This then would include the Body of Christ as it should be-as faith alone in Christ-the lack or regard, concern and acknowledgement of the abuses stem from wrong doctrinal teachings-and this in itself puts it in the category of Cult-not by my definition but as church within the Body of Christ according to the Word. In my opinion they are just another church that Paul would have written too. Then we see the continual warning to the Church of Corinth and what he says to do. I do not advocate that we take them into public courtroom. However if their legal issues are taken their then as a cult they'll be taken there not by me or those within the Body of Christ but as citizens of America who'll practice the right of bringing justice through the means available-right or wrong-if these charges are correct in regard to the legal (financial-sexual immorality-abuse, etc) then I believe the Body of Christ will be Glorified in the light of exposing His Truth-however, we'll have gained a brother and friend when these things come to pass according to Gods on purpose. We have a choice daily to not respond to “man pleasing” but God pleasing.

In the same breath I am concerned that top officials charade lawyers and influential people and feel equipped from the standpoint of the “many members” in the church and fail to see the other members outside of their church. This would clearly indicate it does not see the bigger picture. This does not transpose the greatness of God in observance and leaves the Body vulnerable to the schemes of the World. Mind you I don’t desire to be recognized individually as a person as within the Body but as one within the Body I am concerned that EN continues in its way. I do not consider it personally attacked by EN but find those effected as such asking for answers. For the sake of the Gospel this is the recognition for.

I know there are some genuine people in EN. I’ve met some.

Jay the peacemaker