EN in DC and Northern VA

[freedom4me]

Does anyone know what happend to Pastor Eric White and why so many other leader have left these two churches (DC and N. VA)? What about the Hummer raffle to raise money? Any idea on why we decided to raffle a car to raise money initially for the building fund but eventually for Katrina?

Does anyone have any idea what is happening to these churches? We say we are winning the city (DC) but no pastors live in the city?
No new church plants. Campus ministry in decline.

Is this similar to what others have seen in their EN churches?

[robert_unknown]

"Is this similar to what others have seen in their EN churches?"

yes http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[ginger1]

Eric White left because his former church does not have ministry to the poor, he did receiving Brett Fuller blessings when he left.

And yes, it is similar. Its lies after lies after lies ... till they get caught here.

[robert_unknown]

only very few churches are growing.
some stuck at same numbers of members for years/ decades, and some churches even shrink.
but thats - as we all know - because of the "spirit of deception" leading the brothers and sisters into "rebellion" against their "God given Apostles"... isnt it *sigh* ?

[ulyankee]

freedom4me, fundraising for a building for the DC area church has been taking place, on and off, since Maranatha days in the late 80s. I have materials from the old DC chapter of MCM where they discuss raising funds for a building.

Millions of dollars have been raised. That is documented (http://web.archive.org/web/20020808052300/www.gracecov.org/newgcc_building.html) in at least one place, btw.

BTW, the property referred to in that letter was sold in August 2003. I have it in the timeline (http://www.geocities.com/ulyankee).

But does it seem there is always another use for that money besides a building?

Has it ever been accounted for? For example, is there an accounting of the funds that went to Katrina relief?

[robert_unknown]

" About a year after the property development process began, the Lord began challenging me to think in larger terms than I had up to that time. In a very clear and sobering way, He spoke to me in December 2000, telling me that I was to believe Him to significantly impact the Washington Metro area with the message of Christ�s Kingdom. Up to that time, I had ongoing ministry to players on the Washington Redskins. Shortly after this word to my heart, I was asked to become team chaplain. A few months later, in the spring of 2001, Pastor Jim Laffoon came and presented a wooden staff that prophetically represented the authority the Lord had given to powerfully fulfill His purposes in this area. "

:x :x :x :x

God changes His plans all the time... isnt he? "wooden staffs"... what the heck is going on here?

[ulyankee]

Some of you "old timers" - it's a long way from selling Entertainment books in front of supermarkets to raffling off a Hummer, isn't it?

Or... is it?

Some things change, others stay exactly the same.

(sigh)

[freedom4me]

ulyankee- you asked if the money has ever been accounted for. As you know, most of the church's money isn't accounted for openly, but that didn't stop us from buying a HUMMER and raffling it off. (how's that different from gambling?) I'm not sure if we were ever told how much it raised. I might have missed that Sunday.

We are now in the process of converting a water park that we bought for a couple of Million; oh and don't forget the corporate officies

[ulyankee]

Thanks for the update. I knew about the water park. I thought the corporate offices were leased, not owned though.

So the church BOUGHT the Hummer? It wasn't donated? And did someone actually win it?

[upcase20]

I'm sorry but this is so funny. Hummer ? Doesn't everyone know they ceased production of those this year for lack of demand coupled with rising gas prices. Does that sound like a good idea? Water Park? Where do you think the profit from that will go? Could it possibly be for someone elses big house out in the suburbs . . . . . . It's good to have you on the board Freedom4me, but we need to talk.

[ulyankee]

Here's the info on the water park. What was the rationale for buying it? BTW, they purchased it for $5.6 million, so a few million more than you were led to believe...?

OWNERSHIP INFORMATION
Owner: METRO MORNING STAR INC
Property Address: 4600 BROOKFIELD CORPORATE DR
CHANTILLY VA 20151-2100
Mailing Address: 22590 CEDAR GREEN RD
STERLING VA 20166-2314
Assessor's Parcel Number: 044-1-06-00-0003-B
State: VIRGINIA
County: FAIRFAX

SALES INFORMATION
Seller: CHANTILLY AMUSEMENTS LLC
Sales Date: 11-17-2004
Sales Price: $5,600,000.00
Deed Type: MULTI CNTY/ST OR OPEN-END MORTGAGE
Recorded Date: 11-18-2004
Document Year: 2004
Document Number: 000046082007
Mortgage Date: 11-17-2004
Lender Name: MIDDLEBURG BK
First Mortgage Amount: $4,200,000.00
Mortgage Loan Type: CONVENTIONAL
Mortgage Deed Type: DEED OF TRUST
Title Company: TALON TITLE
Prior Book & Page Number: 007789000031
Prior Deed Type: GRANT DEED
Prior Recorded Date: 04-19-1991

ASSESSOR INFORMATION
Assessed Year: 2004
Total Land & Improvement Value: $3,732,590.00
Land Value: $1,229,280.00
Improvement Value: $2,503,310.00
Assessment Method For Total Land & Improvement Value: ASSESSED
Assessment Method For Land Value: ASSESSED
Assessment Method For Improvement Value: ASSESSED
Total Assessed Land & Improvement Value: $3,732,590.00
Total Assessed Land Value: $1,229,280.00
Total Assessed Improvement Value: $2,503,310.00
Zoning: 550
Tax Code Area: 09-02-28
Land Use: RECREATIONAL (NEC)
County Dertermined Land Use: 822
Property Type: AMUSEMENT-RECREATION
Number of Buildings: 1
Match Code: YES
Owner's Method of Property Ownership: COMPANY / CORPORATION
Tax Amount: $42,215.59
Tax Year: 2004
Lot Acreage: 6.2712
Lot Square Footage: 273,173
Year Constructed: 1999
Air Conditioning Type: TYPE UNKNOWN
Construction Type: STEEL
Exterior Wall Type: METAL
Heating Type: HOT AIR
Pool Indicator: YES
Pool Type: TYPE UNKNOWN
Roof Type: TYPE UNKNOWN
Stories Type: 2
Number Of Stories: 2
Electric Wiring: AVAILABLE
Water Type: TYPE UNKNOWN

LEGAL DESCRIPTION
Lot Number: 3-B
Subdivision: BROOKFIELD CORP
Source Of Property Location: DIRECT FROM LOCAL SOURCE
Carrier Code: R006
Census Id / Block Group / Block / Suffix: 4901003005
Legal Description: BROOKFIELD CORP CENTER PCL 3B PH 3

(Message edited by ulyankee on June 21, 2006)

[ulyankee]

upcase, if a Hummer is good enough for Dr. Pepper to give away, why not the church, LOL. Though last year Dr. Pepper was giving away MINI Coopers which imho is WAYYYY cooler.

Typical question posed to MINI owners: "Is it good on gas?" Answer: "Yes, it gets 35 MPG... at 90!!!" (real answer to real question)

But I just can't envision the average NFL/CFCer driving around a MINI, lol.

[ulyankee]

http://www.planetsplashandplay.com/

freedom4me, what are they doing with the water park now? I know they were operating it up until recently as a park and teen oriented club.

[upcase20]

Good point Ulyankee but my point is that it's a bad investment, like so many other investments you make there, like your time, your money, your faith. Why would anyone get a Hummer and raffle it off, and I would demand to have an accounting of those funds. . . . . . Freedom4me you dont even know how much was raised. This is funny.

[ulyankee]

True. Dr. Pepper is in it to make money. EN is in it to... oh wait, that's right...

[ontheroad]

Uly: "Dr. Pepper is in it to make money. EN is in it to... oh wait, that's right..."

ROFL! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[ulyankee]

Here's the info on the corporate offices... that property was purchased in October 2004 for $1.675M.

What is the current attendance at that church?

blessings,
ulyankee

OWNERSHIP INFORMATION
Owner: METRO MORNING STAR INC
Property Address: 22590 CEDAR GREEN RD
STERLING VA 20166-2314
Mailing Address: 22590 CEDAR GREEN RD
STERLING VA 20166-2314
Assessor's Parcel Number: 045-49-8712-000
State: VIRGINIA
County: LOUDOUN

SALES INFORMATION
Seller: MULLANEY STEPHEN V
Sales Date: 10-05-2004
Sales Price: $1,675,000.00
Deed Type: GRANT DEED
Recorded Date: 10-05-2004
Document Year: 2004
Document Number: 000000108013
Mortgage Date: 10-05-2004
Lender Name: MIDDLEBURG BK
First Mortgage Amount: $1,360,000.00
Mortgage Loan Type: CONVENTIONAL
Mortgage Deed Type: DEED OF TRUST
Prior Book & Page Number: 001314000097
Prior Deed Type: GRANT DEED
Prior Recorded Date: 06-15-1994
Prior Sales Date: 05-20-1994
Prior Sales Price: $85,500.00
Prior Multiple Or Split Parcel Sales Description: MULTIPLE PARCEL SALE

ASSESSOR INFORMATION
Assessed Year: 2005
Total Land & Improvement Value: $1,622,600.00
Land Value: $245,500.00
Improvement Value: $1,377,100.00
Assessment Method For Total Land & Improvement Value: ASSESSED
Assessment Method For Land Value: ASSESSED
Assessment Method For Improvement Value: ASSESSED
Total Assessed Land & Improvement Value: $1,622,600.00
Total Assessed Land Value: $245,500.00
Total Assessed Improvement Value: $1,377,100.00
Zoning: PD-IP
Land Use: WAREHOUSE
County Dertermined Land Use: A
Property Type: WAREHOUSE
Number of Buildings: 1
Match Code: YES
Tax Amount: $19,471.20
Tax Year: 2005
Lot Acreage: 0.9800
Lot Square Footage: 42,688
Universal Building Square Footage: 11,213
Building Square Footage Type: BUILDING
Total (Living & Non) Building Square Footage: 11,213
Ground Floor Square Footage: 11,213
Year Constructed: 1996
Construction Type: MASONRY
Exterior Wall Type: STUCCO
Foundation Type: SLAB
Frame Type: METAL
Heating Type: HEAT PUMP
Number Of Stories: 1
Fuel Type: ELECTRIC

LEGAL DESCRIPTION
Lot Number: 41
Subdivision: STERLING
Source Of Property Location: DIRECT FROM LOCAL SOURCE
Carrier Code: R024
Census Id / Block Group / Block / Suffix: 6118001026
Legal Description: STERLING 200410050108013

(Message edited by ulyankee on June 21, 2006)

[freedom4me]

The water park is not in operation this summer as they are in the process of trying to get to the renovtions done. Incredible, $7.2M for corp offices and a water park that will probably require millions to make into a church building; while we are still renting out a high school auditorium.

All this with about 400 in steady attendance in VA and less than 100 in DC.

Quite honestly I think they had trouble selling all 1000 tickets at $100 for the Hummer raffle. Someone did win it but not sure who bought it originally.

Has anyone every seen the annual financial reports for the DC or VA Metro Morn churches?

[freedom4me]

upcase--why do you say the money might have been for someone's house in the suburbs? Is that an issue in the DC/VA church too?

[40days40years]

freedom:We are now in the process of converting a water park that we bought for a couple of Million; oh and don't forget the corporate officies.

It sounds like they are shutting down the water park part of it. Liability insurance on those things is through the roof.

A $100 dollar ticket for a chance at a hummer is to much I might by a ticket for $5 or $10 bucks. The only way I would pay $100 for a ticket is if I was a church member and even then I would deduct that part from my tithe http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

freedom talking to upcase:--why do you say the money might have been for someone's house in the suburbs? Is that an issue in the DC/VA church too?

I tend to think that is an EN - DNA type of thing across the fruited plain of America. Again http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

(Message edited by 40days40years on June 22, 2006)

[ulyankee]

freedom4me, Metro Morning Star files an annual report with the commonwealth of Virginia, but it is not a FINANCIAL report.

Churches are not required to file financial reports due to our First Amendment, unlike other non-profits which have to file Form 990s (financial statements) with the IRS. So if there is a financial report available, it would have been done voluntarily (and probably only available internally). The law does NOT require churches to disclose their finances to anyone.

It might be worth asking the church office if there is an annual report they provide to congregants.

Ok... so is the water park being converted to a church? Or are they just renovating the existing facility to continue to use as a water park?

Was the Hummer an H2? H3? If an H2, they paid what, $50K for the thing and tried to sell 1000 tickets to make $50K more. Note that 10% of whatever they raised was likely tithed to ENC. Hope they sold enough to at least cover the cost of the vehicle...

[freedom4me]

Ulyankee, they are renovating the park to be converted to the "church" bldg. No more water park. I don't think it ever made money anyway.

It was an H2 and sat in front of the church bldg (high school) every week as an incentive. I wonder what the single mothers, unemployed and others who are struggling financially thought.

I'm still at the church but struggling to stay. Isn't it funny that I know what's wrong but I'm held by something.

I've thought about approaching the leadership but I've seen what happened to the others that tried it.

[ulyankee]

f4me: Ulyankee, they are renovating the park to be converted to the "church" bldg.

ulyankee: Well, at least they are putting funds back into a facility... even if it does sound excessive given the size of the congregation - those are awfully big mortgages for a relatively small congregation. 400 attendance does not equal 400 tithing members, I'd assume - does this also include families, children...? Is there still a lot of "football" money at that church?

And again, note that 10% of ALL tithes AND offerings go back to ENC. So the more money is raised, the more goes to ENC corporate. Stories of EN pastors told to "think bigger" with regards their plans makes me wonder if that is really the motive. And I wonder if some of the larger EN congregations (including ones that have recently left?) have finally woken up to this.

f4me: It was an H2 and sat in front of the church bldg (high school) every week as an incentive. I wonder what the single mothers, unemployed and others who are struggling financially thought.

ulyankee: Wow, so they were raising MORE funds primarily from the congregation (not other churches or the general public) which HAS BEEN CONTRIBUTING ON AND OFF TO A BUILDING FUND FOR THE DC/NOVA CHURCH FOR THE BETTER PART OF TWO DECADES!!!!!! You're right, I wonder what those who are struggling thought... especially those who have been faithfully tithing and giving "sacrificially."

f4me: I'm still at the church but struggling to stay. Isn't it funny that I know what's wrong but I'm held by something.

ulyankee: I know, it's a very difficult, heartwrenching decision - at least it was for me. Even though God specifically told me to leave it was still difficult. I'll pray for you, that the Holy Spirit makes it clear to you what you are to do, and that in whatever decision you make, you can rest in His peace.

f4me: I've thought about approaching the leadership but I've seen what happened to the others that tried it.

ulyankee: What did happen? This is a red flag that something is very wrong, btw, I hope you know that.

[upcase20]

Freedom4Me: It is hard leaving especially when they notice you're gone and your friends (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt) start calling you but when you make that decision you have to go. Meeting the pastor expecting to get an answer is a joke too, and that's assuming that you can get an appointment with them. The longer you stay the worse it will get. You see this place has a history of starting building projects that never seem to get completed and the money gets diverted to something else, often a bigger project or dream that doesn't get completed either. This has been going on for many, many years, and you still meet in a High School gym. I helped counsel someone out of that church over a year ago and that peson found another church and is now happier. If you're like me don't get to the point where you don't want to be involved in another church at all. . . . ."I'm still at the church but struggling to stay". . . You sound like my friend, you even sound like me before I left !

[bill_mack]

Hasn't anybody realized yet that Tax Exempt 501(c)3 organizations can donate to each other!!!

Let's get real here! These people are taking profits "donated" to their non-profits and laundering that money through things like theme parks, hummer raffles, crusades, etc. The one thing they need to do this is people that appear to benefit from the non-profit side. Morning Star International and Maranatha never broke covenant and their "federation of churches" was held together in an unbroken link spiritually by covennants and later corporately when then regrouped a few years later when the heat died down.

Why is it so hard to see that things like Hummer raffles and theme parks are used as a front so these apostates can be CEOs on the board of directors and take a salary! If your the CEO on 25 front organizations and take $"X" amount from each one, you simply increase the number of fronts and make it appear as if they are "Christian" and "evangelical" so nobody can figure out that your just another Bonasso loading your plate with more gravy.

What does the Bible say about all this?
******************************************
2Pe 2:3-4
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
******************************************
Apparently, I Christians don't leave this evil system after all the evidence against them is put on the table, then they will deliberately choose to be used as mere "merchandise" and become fall-aways.

So, these false apostles who tell you that "if you leave us, you will be a fall-away" are in reality making fall-aways by causing them to be participants in illegal and unbiblical money-laundering. And of course the Church, Inc. needs participants, so what's the draw here? They bring in their fortune-tellers like John Steele, Vaughn Clark, Jim Laffoon and other members of their "prophetic ministry team" they can muster and eventually they'll tell you, "Thus saith the Lord, I've called you to be an apostle to the nations" etc. etc. or some other spiritual-sounding title of "destiny" to puff up your imagination beyond reason. Then, you'll just be another "useful idiot" (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Useful+idiot) toward their Kabbalah-based New Kingdom Age and eventually wind up in hellfire!
****************************************
Matthew 7:22
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" Didn't we submit to your "apostles and prophets" who took our money and funneled it into theme parks, sports arenas, Hummer raffles, free "seeker-friendly" pizzas for high-school studies for our Victory Clubs, Creation vs Evolution and Rock'n'Roll expose's on university campuses, etc. etc.? Haven't we been seeker-friendly to win souls for you Lord?

What do you think the Lord God Almighty will say to these MCM/ENC/NOLR "useful idiots"???

Any clues?

[robert_unknown]

well - i was a usefull idiot, and i am confused about many things right now, but at least i know ONE thing for sure: God thinks about me GRACE and MERCY! ;)

[upcase20]

You hit the nail right on the head Bill, just one more word. Let's not forget the athletes, their star power brings in more people to exploit.

[upcase20]

Freedom4me: The housing issue is probably not affiliated with the DC church yet. That church is somewhat new and still under control of the leaders in Va. It still has to grow.