Funny Email from a discipler

[billyrocker]

Here's an excerpt from an email that was forwarded to me from a buddy...Dang I was laughing my butt off...

First of all, <font color="ff0000">don't feel condemned for making a mistake</font>, we all make them!
You must get to the point where you know God and that He is forgiving,
merciful and made you the way you are. Someone can be a Christian and not
really know God. He wants you to know Him, not just call Him Lord. Second,
wisdom comes to those who ask for it, you will find that in James 1. Please
read your bible the best you can to find these answers. <font color="ff0000">Your growth will
come stronger and faster from the Word than from any man.</font> Read Proverbs to
get wisdom. Read James to get wisdom. Read the gospels to know Jesus and
what He says. <font color="ff0000">You made a mistake-it's important to know that you were wrong</font>
and that when you get corrected it's because you are loved. God corrects
those who He loves!! <font color="ff0000">You have to learn that. Sons and daughters who are not
disciplined are not loved.</font> You will change and you will overcome the world
because He who is in you is greater than he who is the world, who is the
enemy. You are not going to the campus, you can accept that if you love God.
He does not make mistakes. He would not lead you astray. <font color="ff0000">He gives us leaders
in our lives to guide us like a good Shepherd. Learn to trust the leaders in
your life and not try to be wiser than them. The bible says to honor those
who rule over you because if you don't it's to your own hurt.</font>

billyrocker@gmail.com

[bill_mack]

So he thinks he has the "rule over you" does he? By what authority? Maybe some "prophet" told he that he was a leader, but making full proof of one's ministry as a Christian leader means confessing failures and not trying to pass off some weasley "Jane Fonda" apology. I'd stay clear of this guy as he's headed to do the same thing again by looking at what he read. He's mind-controlled and programmed just this the rest.

[billyrocker]

yeah we were both laughing our butts off...Oh those wacky EN people!!!

:-)

billyrocker@gmail.com


(Message edited by billyrocker on June 07, 2006)

[ulyankee]

billyrocker, it seems that for all the organizational changes, there have been few if any heart changes (yet?) on the level where it really counts.

<font color="ff0000">He gives us leaders in our lives to guide us like a good Shepherd.</font>

In other words, leaders are God's delegated authority over us. They act on Christ's behalf, are Christ by proxy.

<font color="ff0000">Learn to trust the leaders in your life and not try to be wiser than them.</font>

In other words, don't ask questions. As the new discipleship guidelines state, disciplers are not to override the Holy Spirit or the priesthood of the believer. So to turn this around, this can mean here that the believer is to willingly submit to the wisdom of their discipler so as to seem like the Holy Spirit isn't being overridden in a believer's heart. Turn off your mind and follow them blindly.

<font color="ff0000">The bible says to honor those who rule over you because if you don't it's to your own hurt.</font>

Does it?

I'll quote from the NKJV versions... even though EN usually uses the NIV, the NIV doesn't say "rule" but "leaders," while the KJV and NKJV state "rule."

Hebrews 13:7-9; 17
7 Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. 9 Do not be carried about[c] with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

In context:
(1) it does not say obey your rulers because if you don't it will be to your own hurt. There's a difference between grieving a true leader in Christ, which is unprofitable, and a barely subliminal message of "submit or else you'll get hurt" which isn't even in the NKJV/KJV versions which tend to emphasize rulership and authority more than other English translations.
(2) it does say that they have spoken the word of God to you, and to CONSIDER THE OUTCOME OF THEIR CONDUCT. If they haven't spoken the word of God but another word, or are leading people to another Christ or to legalism, they are not true leaders in Christ. I would say also that looking at a leader's behavior is perfectly acceptable "in considering the outcome of their conduct."
(3) there is also a warning not to be carried about with strange doctrines. The Apostle John also warns in both of his epistles about this - both teach believers how to discern the false from the true. 2 John 1:9-10: 9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

Remember that Jesus and the biblical Apostles all warned of false teachers and false teachings. They did not teach to blindly follow anyone claiming to be a leader.

I have no problem submitting to and following a leader who truly is following Jesus Christ. I've since been blessed with a good pastor at a healthy church. He said once that he sees himself more as a sheepdog than a shepherd, since Jesus Christ is our true Shepherd, not him. That sounds like a humble servant attitude to me. However, I do not believe that I'm following Jesus just by following my pastor. I must follow Him myself.

The Bible doesn't teach to assume that everyone who says they are leaders in Christ, really are, and to then blindly follow them because they are in a position of leadership. Otherwise at least half if not more of the epistles' content wouldn't be in the Bible. Certainly not a lot of what Paul wrote, and certainly not 1 and 2 John!!!

(Message edited by ulyankee on June 08, 2006)

[dust]

ULyankee
As usual, you are eloquent, awesome and I'm with you 100% on everything you stated. I wanted to write the exact same thing, but you did it best.

It's funny, I am ready to state EXACTLY what someone else has stated and yet we don't know each other, live in different states and have different pastors. This is how the Holy Spirit works...and unites us in TRUTH.

With EN, the "united" comes after you are sitting there getting indocrintation. Their truth doesn't last if not forced by the group experience. Once out of their influence, their truth falls to the ground. This is how we know what is from God. The Spirit testifies. Thanks UL for all you do here.
Dust

[ulyankee]

Dust, thank you SO much for your encouragement and agreement. I haven't been posting much lately partly b/c I've had other responsibilities I've had to take care of, but more b/c I'm getting really tired. I have to remember though that my strength is in Him, not in myself, and that often comes through fellow believers strengthening and encouraging me as I try to do for others.

A couple other things I noticed...

<font color="ff0000">Your growth will come stronger and faster from the Word than from any man.</font>

How true! And not just as presented in the Purple Book and other fill in the blank materials, but in its entirety, in context. <font color="ff0000">Please read your bible the best you can to find these answers.</font> Hmmm, they might not be "these" answers though, but THE answers. Remember that the plumbline is not what a leader or discipler says, but the Word. If the Word and the Holy Spirit lead you to different answers than what leaders are telling you, TEST IT. Test the context, try the spirits, don't just accept "prooftexting" alone. As the unnamed apostle stated in Hebrews, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever!

<font color="ff0000">You are not going to the campus, you can accept that if you love God. He does not make mistakes.</font>

So, does this mean that a leader said the recipient wasn't going to the campus, and to accept it because "God" doesn't make mistakes? Was the "mistake" going into campus ministry to begin with?

blessings,
ulyankee

[ginger1]

Don't feel condemned for making mistake ??? Sound like Clinton, I smoke but did not inhale . LOL !

[j2theperson]

Yesterday, while reading my daily Bible chapter, I read the story of Ananias and Sapphira. Based on EN's teachings, Sapphira did what she was supposed to do--submit to her ruler, her husband Ananias. But her submission did not prevent her from being struck down for lying to the Holy Spirit.

(Message edited by j2theperson on June 08, 2006)

[bill_mack]

j2theperson,

Great point! What happened to Sapphira? According to ENC submission doctrines, God was somehow supposed to make it up to her since she obeyed?

[dust]

Ulyankee,
I've been missing your input, but you know lately I have felt the passion to be on this board. I went for months with nothing to say, so perhaps it is God who gives us seasons here. Take your much needed break and let me remember to keep you in my prayers.
Dust

[bill_mack]

Ulyankee,

Ditto! Take a bigtime break. God Bless you mightily as you do too.

Dust,

Yes, there are "seasons" to this stuff and after years of battling this mess and on behalf of perhaps 1000's more who have felt hopeless an incapable of doing anything, I want to thank you for coming aboard, using your mind, spirit and body and helping to share this heavy load.

Deut 32:28-34

For they are a [Every] nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them.
O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end! [that you simply cannot get away with over 30 years of sorcery, fraud and spiritual rape without an eventual Judgment Day from God]

How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up? [and this little FactNet group is surely the “one or two” that can put the “ten thousand” false architectural structure headed for the scrap yard]

For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges. [nether is their gospel the gospel of scripture or their “Holy Spirit” the same Holy Spirit in the Trinity]

For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter: [clearly the 17thcentury believe that the Kabbalah is a divinely-inspired document to be used as a hermeneutical lens to interpret scripture is one of the main roots and we in the 21st century are witnessing the “grapes of gall” and seeing that they are indeed “bitter.]

Their [New] wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. [It is actually the “wine of the wrath of her fornications” i.e. syncretizing the doctrines of false gods with the Holy Writ of Scripture towards a hybrid “Mystery Babylon” religion]

Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures? [the evidence is all there!]

Now let us see what the Lord has for us next!!!

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi Billy Rocker-Glad to see you here. I would like to see a letter that you saw. It was from Leo , it would mean a lot. Thanks

[billyrocker]

Hey Copper...

I asked my friend who had and they had already thrown it away...yeah I was super bummed about that..sorry everyone...

billyrocker@gmail.com

[dust]

EN mentors say, "read your bible." But, what they do is carefully select out (according to their agenda) selected scriptures. The bible study materials do not cover the FULL COUNSEL of the WORD.

Even in ENLI, they spend maybe 20 hours in two year course on the bible. It's a skeleton view.

This is their most insideous way of controlling people. Of course, they say, "read the Word." That sounds good. But, the full counsel of God's Word is not encouraged, nor is encouraged any mainstream bible studies. You are encouraged to do the Purple Book and other ENP published books.

We are to ADD nothing, SUBTRACT nothing. And, it is impossible to yield fruit with the Purple book or their other published catechism books. I tried for years and because it wasnt' the FULL COUNSEL of God, the people did NOT MATURE.

When I write here, part of me wants to WARN new members. Don't get stuck in ENP publications for years. You are entitled and obligated to know the FULL COUNSEL of GOD. Do not limit your faith and your relationship with God through bible extractions. It's not scriptural for you to do so, but you may not realize that.

[robert_unknown]

dont be unfair ;)

i found the purple book in intself not bad for a "beginner" - it gives a brief and basic understanding on the most important subjects of the bible like repentance...

only in the light of what happens behind the scenes its strange. one wonders if some of the big guys have ever read and tried to life after the purple book!

[bill_mack]

dust: This is their most insideous way of controlling people. ...But, the full counsel of God's Word is not encouraged... You are encouraged to do the Purple Book and other ENP published books.

Now dust, really, are trying to say here that these men of God would pick and choose selcted teachings and verses out of scripture, contextualize them in the light of an obscure belief system and then carefully disseminate these re-arranged teachings to their congregants so as to subtly cause them to be transformed corporately into a controllable mass?

Are you saying that because these men are *NOT* giving the whole COUNSEL OF GOD by letting their congregants exercise free reign of the scriptures, but instead cause them to be, dare I say it, SPIRITUALLY CRIPPPLED!! Are the "Christian" leaders reserving the freedoms that all Christians have through the Word for themselves by interposing themselves between their congregants and God just the NBC, CBS and ABC newscasters immediately reinterpret what the President says right after a State of the Nation Speech? In other words, are you saying that MCM/ENC leaders are telling their congregants what to think by twisting and withholding vital elements of scripture so they can put their spin and interpretation of what they believe it means as opposed to what is says in context?

What are you? Some sort of *CONSPIRACY NUT*!!! Who would be so diabolically evil to do these things. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were describing a Mormon-like cult that teaches one can become a god! Nobody in their right mind would do such a thing since it is akin to child abuse. It would be like giving students textbooks that never went beyond the 6th-grade level or teaching them math and never letting them carry out equations past whole numbers. They would be forcing these students to be "dumbed down" so they could be controlled since their lack of knowledge of the Word would prevent them from being able to reference biblical teaching from heretical teaching. It would make their Christianity SUPERFICIAL and cause them to be taken in snares in other areas of life. You make it sound like "No child left behind" Christianity like the educational system decided to lower the standards so more students would pass high school to meet the quotas and not look bad compared to the rest of the world. Now really dust, who would do such a thing?

Couldn't you somehow tone down your message. There are young, impressionable minds here such as jbrems that won't be able to process such accusations. His mind might become blown to pieces and then he would need treatment. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hi Dust, I agree with your post # 119 about En and their Bible studies. I chringe that they are being given out and promoted at News Boys concerts that people pay to see. Those baby Christians that can be hurt and damaged, by this.}

[ulyankee]

coppertree, maybe a week ago I was reading about the 80s Christian "hair band" Stryper, who used to throw Bibles out to the audience.

I think someone said that MCM considered rock music to be of Satan... wasn't Stryper mentioned in that context?

Anyway, now you have Newsboys giving out Purple Books at concerts.

Why not BIBLES?

How come Rice Broocks is holding a Purple Book in his "Winning in Life" sermon on building foundations, rather than a Bible?

The Bible is a dangerous book. It contains the WHOLE Truth, the WHOLE counsel of God.

The Purple Book and other EN materials make me think of an old Saturday Night Live sketch from the early 80s... "Pre Chew Charlies," where Chevy Chase prechewed steak for restaurant patrons (http://snl.jt.org/detail.php?i=1487).

There, showed my age, hehehehe.

(Message edited by ulyankee on June 13, 2006)

[youngnmighty]

Purple Book, Discipling Nations, Every Nation in our Generation = More money for them.

I mean, when i went to a cell where they did Purple Book session, I thought 'What's new about this?'

Lets just call a spade, a spade - this is just pure business.
Didn't ya'll read Rich Dad Poor Dad.
By the way we had a sermon in church straight out of Rich Dad Poor Dad - no really, im not kidding. I recall only one reference to the Bible. Not that money's a problem - i just take issue with Prosperity Gospel in general... especially in a time of environmental crisis and rapacious capitalism

Anyway, the point is BOOKS = Intellectual Property = Money.

That's why you university professors will recommend you buy the books they wrote for courses = Royalties.