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philiprosenthal
07-18-2006, 09:00 PM
EN Pastors: How to stop your congregation posting here

This thread is for EveryNation pastors who want advice on how to stop/reduce their congregation posting here.

Understand the reality of the new situation:
1. It won't help to tell them not to post here, it will just make them more curious - and you won't be easily able to find out who is posting because of the aliases.
2. Now that FactNet board has exceeded 15000 posts and is being read all over the world, you need to accept that the hierachy has lost control of the flow of information about the movement. You will never get that control back again. It is gone. You have got to live with a new situation.
3. If you have covered up scandal and/or serious abuses in your church, it will be completely impossible to keep them covered up in the long term. Somebody will talk - and probably soon. The time for the old culture of people getting away with cover up is over and gone and probably will never come back again.

So, how do you cope better in the new situation:
1. If there is covered up scandal about your church, then tell your congregation yourself, before it gets posted here. If you are partly responsible, apologise. If leaders need discipline - do it. This will be much better for your credibility and unity of your church than your congregation finding out from the internet message board.
2. Create a safe forum and procedures in your church for people to discuss their concerns and problems - without the risk of being victimised or thrown out of the church. Then people will discuss things and sort out problems in your safe forums without the need to come here.

Most churches do have such procedures and forums. EveryNation is fringe/cultic in that it doesn't do so. By creating such forums, you will be doing what almost every other denomination is already doing - whether Presbyterian, Methodist, Most New Apostolic Reformation churches or Episcopal etc. They differ in their methods, but almost all have such safe forums. People in EveryNation are resorting to the internet because there is no where else to go. That is what makes EveryNation fringe/cultic in its current form of governance and what is allowing all these scandals to grow so big and serious - rather than getting dealt with at a low level.

For example, you could do it with:
* A quarterly members meeting at which people can ask questions of the leaders and debate ideas.
* For a big church, break the accountability meetings up into smaller area discussion meetings.
* Allow the congregation to elect representatives who can convey the concerns of other anonymously or help them to articulate their concerns to the leadership.
* Create a set of rules for grevience/concern procedure that is fair to everyone and make it public.

If you are not used to it, then it is going to be hard to make the transition to an open culture of discussion forums. You haven't got experience, and if it is not handled well, a group of angry critical people can be tough to deal with. Solution: Invite an outside facilitator to help you with your first few meetings. Don't do it in-house. You can ask a pastor from another church who is good at this or you can hire a professional public facilitation consultant (but please don't hire a public relations consultant).

philiprosenthal
07-18-2006, 09:01 PM
I support FactNet right now, because it is the only alternative available to a fringe/cultic totalitarian regime with no free speech. But if EveryNation reformed to be like other normal denominations and dealt with its problems responsibly, then I would stop posting here and encourage others to do so also. I only started posting here after the EN leaders had already had about 800 pages of correspondence from me plus exhaustive meetings etc - during which the leaders I spoke to refused to be bound by any sort of decent or orderly procedure or fairness. This is now for me and a lot of others the 'Tell it to the church' phase of Matthew 18.

mountain_william
07-18-2006, 10:36 PM
I can't say I have any great hope that this will make a difference as long as leaders believe they are anointed and appointed by God to be the spiritual authority of others solely based on their title, and that they should be followed blindly by the sheep, but here goes....

Dear EN Pastors,

If you're reading Philip's post and wondering if it has anything to do with you, here are some questions to consider:

1. Have you ever told anyone in your congregation not to post here, not to read it, or not to tell anyone else about it? Are you saying to yourself right now "Well of course I have because negative accusations like those just bring division and plant negative seeds." Hmmm...blaming the messenger? If you are beyond reproach, or even show a willingness to acknowledge mistakes and make amends when you are NOT, then you have nothing to fear from a bunch of "bitter, negative, rebellious people." Right?

And do the people in your congregation feel the freedom to discuss issues/questions/concerns with others in the body (assuming there is no intent to purposely slander/divide/etc. and attempts have been made to address issues with leadership where necessary) without fear of "tattling to the leaders" and reprisals?

2. I think we can all agree that a Pastor is called to care for God's children by leading, serving, equipping, encouraging, teaching, etc. When you decide HOW to carry out this mandate, what is your motivation? How do you see your role? Do you see yourself as primarily an earthly representative of God's love committed to encouraging your sheep even through their weaknesses and imperfections, allowing the Holy Spirit to lead them? Or as a "spiritual policeman/judge/jury/pseudo Holy Spirit" dedicated to rooting out their sins (or perceived sins), forcing them to change and toe the party line?

more in next post....

mountain_william
07-18-2006, 10:39 PM
3. Once you've discerned or rooted out supposed sin/rebellion/etc., how do you handle it? Do you make the approach privately, gently asking questions and seeking to get the whole story before lovingly leading them through repentance if necessary, again allowing the H.S. to do the convicting? Or do you trust your own discernment (or that of your "covered" leaders) so much that you couldn't possibly be wrong about the sin/situation, so you just jump in with the harsh rebuking/yelling/accusing/casting out demons/etc. while giving no chance for the accused to make his/her defense?

Do you believe that defending yourself is a sign of an unteachable spirit, or proof that you really are in rebellion, or would you consider that sometimes defending oneself is actually a sign of innocence and an attempt to protect oneself from a tirade of unfair accusations? "Well, they should receive correction with humility no matter what!" you say. But should you be "lording it over" them in arrogance, harshness, etc.? Is that the way to lead someone to repentance, or is it an attempt to "put them in their place?" Would repentance be required on your part also, or are you justified because you are "doing God's work"?

4. Do you "cover" and defend your leaders/staff at the expense of truth or justice? Do you value loyalty over character, believing that any accusation--however mild--brought against one of them can be ignored, and that you can even go so far as to rebuke the one bringing the accusation?

5. Do you have sheep leaving through the backdoor almost as fast as they are coming through the front? And are you holding yourself totally blameless because the ones leaving are just rebellious and don't want to submit to authority?

If any of this causes you to feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit (since HE is the only one who can bring true conviction), what are you going to do? Will you humble yourself to make things right or wait for the Father of those sheep you're hurting to make them right for you?

coppertree
07-18-2006, 11:17 PM
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Hi Mt. William-Welcome and thank you well said. Please add more to other threads, if you want to do so.}

mountain_william
07-18-2006, 11:33 PM
Thank you copper--I will!

Sorry Philip, if my post didn't exactly match your purpose for this thread, but I've been saving it up for a while in my head and your post just led right into this subject for me. Too many pastors, I'm sure, are reading here and thinking they can just ignore everything because they don't see what they do as abuse.

So, if they could just recognize themselves IF they are being abusive in any way, and can change that behavior, THEN maybe their flock would not be tempted to post here.