bScuse us Bunnys Trail [Archive]

john_r_jones

08-27-2006, 04:47 PM

By the way I want to say for the world to hear that the notion of discipleship being primarily or secondarily, or in any significant sense reproduceable is a load of crap. We cause people to become a disciple of Jesus Christ in all that they were made to be as an individual. Otherwise they ain't a disciple they're a replicant. They're a mutant, their spiritual DNA is screwed-up because we are to follow Jesus. Not a resonable facsimile of said savior, or a version-Jesus 2.0 the new and improved Jesus. Don't settle for a church experience that leads you to someone or something other than Jesus! Most important thing I think I've learned in life. Jesus ain't no system, He's the way , the truth, and the life. Bye!

John

sameo

08-27-2006, 04:57 PM

Wow-John...NOW that's some good stuff there. Man, what was I thinkin' back then? I blame it on my youth...but so many adults today are falling for that crap.

Thanks for the wisdom Sensei Bunny Foofoo!

wisedove

08-27-2006, 04:59 PM

Jesus ain't no system, He's the way , the truth, and the life. Bye!

Preach it, bro.

Thanks for starting this new thread. I was gonna ask you to do it yesterday. the others are tooo long. I started my own, but not many visitors yet. I'm o.k., though! (only because i have Jesus...hehehehe!)
dove

mdillon

08-27-2006, 05:13 PM

jrj thanks for that. powerful. years ago I went through a time of TheDeepDark and had a healing conversation with Him over all the TwiceTheSonsofHell I had raised. He was merciful and forgiving. Now I have a shop full of little clackers every day that I can point to Him and do quite often. Anybody that talks crap about "God not in the schools" like He needs legislation I just laugh. One day after a ****fight I wrote two full white boards full of proverbs about strife (w/out ref) and made them write them down. Never told them where it came from. one guy said, "Where did you get these Mr. Dillon?" I didn't answer, just ignored him and another guy spoke to him and said, "Dude, its Confucious, man". hahaha

Since being out of the system, I am so free. Don't have to worry about anybody anywhere. Just love 'em. The Body is so huge and overflows every box we try to build for it.

On occaision one of my students will get a clearer hint of Him and wants to chat. Then I let him go. Catch and release.

He and only He is the Great Shepherd.

dillyeauxdonewithsteeplehouse

wisedove

08-27-2006, 05:23 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Since being out of the system, I am so free. Don't have to worry about anybody anywhere. Just love 'em. The Body is so huge and overflows every box we try to build for it.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

ditto, dilly. I am seeing this even in my new place of worship-It's all about Jesus and His Kingdom, not man's agenda.

dove

lablady2

08-27-2006, 05:33 PM

md: as long as there are math tests there will be prayer in school. Can't keep a good God down and He doesn't really need any help from our judicial system.

mdillon

08-27-2006, 05:46 PM

labby if anybody messes with me about what I do with these guys in shop I will tie them down and let them sub for a day. They will find God before the morning announcements are over. The school system went through 3 teachers in a year and half before they asked me. Little did they know...

dillyeauxwelcomebackkotter

wildwood_

08-27-2006, 06:58 PM

Guys, prayer request here. And see other thread for funny post before I heard this...

Lexington's had a plane crash. My home for many years, many friends still live there, my work at UKMC and dozens of diaster drills for just such events... I responded to small crash myself years ago...(Administrative End of things, Patient Family & Media Coordination too). I've flown on those flights...
Sorry to interrupt...I know it should be a happy thread...

Oh, "Sarge" is flying on a small plane NOW... Prayers for all... http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif

wildwood_

08-27-2006, 07:59 PM

John R & Lablady...I know you all are in Kentucky now--truly praying all Souls safely accounted for among your friends & family. This is all over the news now...lots of regional travelers on the flight. I feel a bit selfish praying all the Souls that I know are fine; but such is my Hope. Praying the Lord's arms around the grieving.

Makes me miss "Home". Local coverage out of Lexington is remarkably professional & warm. I've watched the live stream off NBC Local Channel 18...not being sensational. http://www.wlextv.com/

Now, I'm going to take the nap I'd planned... I'll be calling some old friends later. A lesson for me to remember...to call more frequently, email more often...love on a little bit better...without such sad promptings.

flo1151

08-27-2006, 08:03 PM

dilly,
mz flo is truly a witness in the publiv school system. you are correct about truly making a difference without trying to get them to come to your church. Did I hear someone quote MLK before you change somebody you have to love them. That is what I said when I changed one of my childrens diapers for the first time.

lablady2

08-27-2006, 08:03 PM

It's been very sad to watch. I hope the problem wasn't caused by using the wrong runway; such a avoidable tragedy.

mdillon

08-27-2006, 10:42 PM

flo,
ever since you told me about mz flo i've been wanting to hear some of her stories. i bet she kicks clacker at her school esp. in her position. awesome. i think i told you this before, but since i've been "out" i've got more "ministry" than ever. not a burden, though, like before, no striving. it just flows. like flo.

dillyeaux

mdillon

08-27-2006, 10:47 PM

matt_hatter

08-27-2006, 11:09 PM

"but since i've been "out" i've got more "ministry" than ever"

wow, me too dilly. and helping folks that would not be the sharps of the world. Nothing like seeing an amputee walk across the room with a new prosthesis, and sharing in that joy...beats the heck out of two good legs with some shiney Bass Weeguns (or Elvis zip up boots) and an arrogant attitude anyday. I'll take my new church all day long.

john_r_jones

08-28-2006, 12:51 AM

While I'm making grand pronouncements: I think reforming EN is like giving a subscription of "Health" magazine to a teminal cancer patient.

John

mdillon

08-28-2006, 10:28 AM

O great Pontificator. thank you for your pronouncement. I could not agree more. Maybe you should open a whole new thread "Reforming EN is Like..." On second thought, we need to kidnap Lablady and sameo and feed them chocolates as we all go to Nashvegas and swipe an open mic night at the Global Cafe.

"...training a mule for the Kentucky Derby"

dillyeaux

speakword2004

08-28-2006, 10:45 AM

John

I hope you were wearing your white mantle when you made that pronouncement. I tend to stand when I make mine. It keeps the piles from hurting.

matt_hatter

08-28-2006, 10:51 AM

speak, your white mantle is a speedo.

Open mic? Miltie singing Freebird? Take a love offering.

speakword2004

08-28-2006, 10:58 AM

No, my mantle is the red beanie I wear on my head. The speedo is for emergency baptisms.

lablady2

08-28-2006, 11:02 AM

It's a little early in the a.m. for speedo talk, thank you very much. Maybe after a cup of coffee.....

speakword2004

08-28-2006, 11:05 AM

Reforming EN is God's job and EN's leaders. Now if only God would zap them with lightning, hey?
Err . . . yeah, right.

Now that my red woolcap/beanie/mantle is tilted at an ungainly angle by reading the rantings and misled muses of this rag-a-rubble bunch of MCM rebel-babbles I will report back to headquarters (a quarter within my head rougly about 25% of it)for reprogramming.

john_r_jones

08-28-2006, 11:32 AM

More than thirty years ago this little adventure cranked up in Paducah and has spread 'round the world. As far as I can see there are good people in EN just like there were good people in Maranatha, the issue is how much simpler it would be to follow Jesus in another ministry or church setting without that monkey (minkey) on their back. When I hear about the small group tactics of which make me shudder I say, "Get out run for your lives!"

John

john_r_jones

08-29-2006, 08:38 AM

Meanwhile here on the Kibbutz of the mildly enthisiastic we watch the antics of the hairshirt weavers union. To quote Uncle Miltie. "Could you parse the potato chips please?"

Thank you,
Unjohn-what my nieces called me interchangeable with Untlejohn.

john_r_jones

08-29-2006, 08:53 PM

Could it be that the fundamentals of EN are flawed and that contributes to the unhealthy atmosphere in which they live?

The corruptibility of humans us included is the essence of the issue at hand. Those who acknowledge their poverty in this regard are those who depend increasingly on the lord Jesus. The absence of sin isn't the sterile vacuum in which the germ of Christ's kingdom will flourish. The parable of the sower is in fact a picture of God's indiscriminate nature to give to those who aren't perfect, who may be flawed in their acceptance of the seed. In fact I think the good soil is Jesus himself none of us are righteous save Him.

The issue is the kingdom is made up of sinful people who come to Jesus and seek Him. Some of us wash the feet of a savior with tears shed in gratitude from a posture learned in our debauchery, our stooped, bowed, and burdened selves. Paul welcomed these folks as did Jesus, the freedom from self abasement and shame is the centerpiece of grace. Many in the church grovel and crawl in their rejection and sin consciousness seeking redemption in their performance unaware of His graciousness. This prostitution of their selves is what Paul proscribed, no person who has sold themselves into bondage as a means of redemption can attain salvation in the doing.

It's interesting to me that figures in the gospels such as Matthew depict themselves as sinners-not saints. Matthew's self portrayal is of a tax collector, others such as the woman at the well encounter Jesus in their sinful state and that is the remembrance we're given of them His embrace of them in that state of grace.

Something to nosh on while we stroll through the carnival atmosphere o' our neighborhood here. We now return you to the stale funnel cakes and tilt-a-whirls.

John

matt_hatter

08-29-2006, 11:07 PM

John, I would much rather be the man who cries out, "Lord have mercy on me the sinner!" than the arrogant Pharisee who seems to have all the answers and thanks God he is not like the rest of us.

1Peter 4:8--"Above all, keep fervent in you love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins."

speakword2004

08-30-2006, 05:09 AM

John I would say the absence of repentance, the absence of knowing that we are all subjects of His Mercy and Grace, the absence of the humility to fall to the feet of the King and weep with the realisation that it is only by Him that we can come to the Father is even more important than dwelling on the sin condition.

The day I sat in church listening to the public proclamation of our great superhero apsotle's falleness, I found myself whispering:"Lord have Mercy" over and over again as if I was back in the high church setting of my youth and was reciting the liturgy in some strange round of penitent sorrow. I heard no love and saw no love nor sorrow for our departed and outcast brother. Had he made himself wicked? Was it all his own fault and was responsibility to be left on his head just as much as the glory was given to him previously?

Matthew the Tax Collector had much to lose by following this Jewish mystical figure that called Him out of a system of sellout to the empire and into persecution in the Kingdom.

john_r_jones

08-30-2006, 10:49 AM

Ok,
I could type out one of my lengthy responses not to refute you but I can only say grace is something to be revealed and accepted. I trust God to do that as He chooses and that I think there are many of us here on a journey toward that reality. All I can do is offer my testimony of sin and grace in my life.

John

dust

08-30-2006, 11:14 AM

Speak: I heard no love and saw no love nor sorrow for our departed and outcast brother.

Do you refer to Paul D. here?

speakword2004

08-30-2006, 12:23 PM

Dust,

Yes. It was a suprise to me to hear how he was so "quickly and cleanly" denounced from the pulpit in 2003 after MSI asked him to scram. The public face to the disclosure did not compare to the other faces on it that I saw.

The story told to us that day just did completely add up in my estimation. Instead of a time of great sorrow and mourning over the events of the last 6 months, we received a sermon on personal sin management and dealing with personal hidden sins. I just did not feel right to me.

Some months later I began to put my growing bad feelings next to this event and I realised that there must have been more to the story. I did not feel comfortable in approaching my pastor about the whole saga as I became convinced that if the congregation was being deceived, I would not fare any better in discovering the truth at that time.

Instead, after prayer and a couple of internal political events in the church that made my spine crawl, I decided to reattend the member's course to decide from that if I would remain a Covenant member. The contents and the way in which the course was handled as well as my attendance to it was further confirmation that I was best served by bolting for the door.

Taking that route was not an easy one. It was a sore and uneasy journey until the very end. Once liberated by the grace of God I decided to run with the wild horses for a good season.

flo1151

08-30-2006, 01:42 PM

In maranatha covenant was a one way street. You give up your life as you know it for the church life. What does the church and leadership give up. Nothing. When a person leaves they are a mere castaway from the larger herd. Then the predators are left with a feast. Where is the covenant on the part of maranatha /en. That sort of covenant is too messy and requires an admit that everything is not as simple in life as some make it.

The word of faith movement cannot be very spiritual because of how it treats the weeker brother. Those who are spiritual restore the brother with aspirit of meekness. What do you think meekness means in this context?

john_r_jones

08-30-2006, 02:00 PM

The adept manner in which the leadership of EN co-opts a ministry with a troubled leader is traced back to the Maranatha coup of '89. There are a string of folks ensnared since, the St' Louis church an exception. Nothing new in history's play book here Machiavelli would be proud.

John

P.S. I think they experimented on others beforehand.

mdillon

08-30-2006, 03:01 PM

john and flo the co-opting was going on from the inception. ask miltie about how it came to be in Cookeville. Darwinistic survival of the fittest cloaked as the superbrothers of Jesus. G'ville was always stealing the gifted from smaller ministries because, well, we gotta look good on TV and all, right? The antics of Broocks and Co. took it several realms above at Bethel. Parasites on Parade. Bloodsuckers. Someday I'll tell you how I really feel, so I'll just leave it toned it down for now.

dillyeaux

p.s. speak your testimony is gripping. thank you

mdillon

08-30-2006, 03:06 PM

john_r_jones

08-30-2006, 03:17 PM

Speak,
I think your patience in seeking to work your way through what you saw is commendable. I hope people looking in see the integrity y'all possess in seeking to hear the Father's heart in all of this.

John

john_r_jones

08-30-2006, 03:39 PM

Dilly,
I'm concerned for you-not! Tearing out the girl's bathroom this week, found a two foot square hole into the attic on the backside of the fireplace in adjoining room. Fireplace insert had sheetrock scraps stacked on top of it, no greenboard in the bathroom-mold-o-rama. Welcome to Livingston Parish and no building codes until the last few years. The remodeling bunny bids you adeiu!

lablady2

08-30-2006, 03:48 PM

Did someone say sheetrock?

mdillon

08-30-2006, 04:29 PM

thanks for bidding me adeiu, Bunnybuilder, as I was reading I was getting a sinking feeling that you were going to give me an invite (whew!) if you get a hoist, lablady will be there tomorrow.

dillyeaux

mdillon

08-30-2006, 04:34 PM

lablady2

08-30-2006, 04:36 PM

md: funny, I thought John was hinting around for the pleasure of your company as well.

Oh, dear m., I have a hoist! Nothing but the best for my husband's cheap lab..., ur...wife. Still, lugging that 5/8" sheetrock around and flipping it onto the hoist is not a job for wimps. I'm dreading it.

john_r_jones

08-30-2006, 05:02 PM

Hoist? We don need no stinking hoist, we float it up there and screw it up so fast it don't know what's happened.

I'm enjoying myself!
John

mdillon

08-30-2006, 06:48 PM

The Great Hare, I always knew you hovered while pontificating your pronouncements, but remodeling? You gots talent. Make sure you don't fasten your robe before descent or you'll need more mud for the crevices.

dillyeauxneaux

matt_hatter

08-30-2006, 06:50 PM

I am a good gopher. Got creds.

mdillon

08-30-2006, 06:53 PM

dust

08-30-2006, 06:59 PM

Speak, that's wild that you went through member's class. I didn't want to sign that agreement/covenant because they make you put in writing that you'll give 10%. This kind of tithing can't please God, but it sure pleases the leaders. Yuck!

We should have bolted for the door, too, but when we did, it was hard.

I was just thinking, how because of the relationships here, you can never really get away from the MCM/MS/EN stuff?

Mat, Miltie, Lablady....you alumni....remember the Godfather III, Al Pacino says, "just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in."

Spooky, huh!

lablady2

08-30-2006, 07:23 PM

Written agreement? ? ?

Oy vey!

matt_hatter

08-30-2006, 07:26 PM

Wow, EN is worse than MCM...don't remember any written covenant agreements, but I trashed a lot of stuff they sent me from Gainsville. Bad Matt. Bad, Bad Matt.

coppertree

08-30-2006, 07:29 PM

Hi Dust
Yes, you are right about not being able to get away from MCM/MSI/EN stuff. But there we can get renewed, encouraged, and filled up again with what we need. I consider this no small thing, that we are many here, across periods of time, and time zones. I am very thankful of all of you. And that I have some pizza in the refrigerator.}

mdillon

08-30-2006, 10:12 PM

hey copper, that was a pretty powerful statement, kinda got to me. it is no small thing, indeed. thank you for that.

dillyeaux

p.s. also thanks for the pizza, i left some for mattie. miltie gets the leftover crust

matt_hatter

08-30-2006, 10:25 PM

Love cold pizza. Especially in the morning. Thanks Copper, we love you.
Matt

wisedove

08-30-2006, 11:14 PM

don't remember any written covenant agreements, but I trashed a lot of stuff they sent me from Gainsville. Bad Matt. Bad, Bad Matt.

Matt, you might have missed out on many "benefits of membership." http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lame.gif

I don't remember signing on that dotted line myself, but in case I did, forgive me, Jesus.

matt_hatter

08-31-2006, 12:12 AM

Darn, I get nervous enough just signing for a car loan. Signing away my life to covenant with some of these clowns....WOW, what is the interest rate? Surely it was more than a 10% tithe. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

lablady2

08-31-2006, 12:17 AM

Are you sure those weren't written "coven" agreements?

matt_hatter

08-31-2006, 12:23 AM

"Eye of a newt, tail of a lizard...
give me your heart and give me your gizzard"

Rosie the Riviter

john_r_jones

08-31-2006, 07:27 AM

I'm reading a book authored in the eighties and frankly I couldn't have handled the message. So I am content with allowing others to accept or reject what I say and give them the space to experience God's grace in His way for them. I wish however that I had been at a place of hearing then it would have saved me a great deal of heartache. That makes what I'm seeing now more valuable, that brick wall just now becoming unfuzzy as I regain consciousness has an arrow on it pointing that-a-way.

Hindsight is what we do when we wonder what that was we ran into.

John

speakword2004

08-31-2006, 10:50 AM

John

I resigned membership without saying anything to them to their faces. I did not want to go through the trauma of debating my points of difference, difficulty, pain and suspicions. Was I a coward for not employing Matt 18 or whatever? Yes. I felt that I needed to run for the gates and I did. Only after did I start to have much to say. After I had dealt with the initial pain of separation, the pain of loss and the mourning for it all and in the midst of the process of anger 1 telephone call resulting in one confrontation: momentary and unresolved with a general apology on my part to the victim on the other end.

For me the Grace to move on without a fight, without a stand, without a try at wanting the best, urging the change, affording the oppurtunity for light to be seen on both sides of the divide was not there.
Now? The mediator stands in heaven, probably weeping, sometimes championing my cause with small encouragements from the likes of 2 citizens in a washed-up Cajun-coated State. Why I ended up as a part time spear carrier for a guy whom God has not graced to let this go either is perhaps Divine or God's way of saying work it through together and see what you learn and what I can redeem. It might not be what you expect boys! But I am sure not a time-waster, nor am I anything else but God!

Now there's a word or is that two?

speakword2004

08-31-2006, 11:32 AM

As to my partner in crime against this perceived stanic attack upon the ramparts of our former mater gone down Babylon's way? He has been pedantic in following biblical processes or points of order etc. He has swum the shark tank over and over again with only a few scratches and chomped up buoys and boards. He deerves our respect for running the gauntlet in some kind of grace.

mcmstaff78

08-31-2006, 11:53 AM

Well, Maranatha had a five page "committment statement". I can't remember if you had to sign it or not. My copy (courtesy of Bill Mack, since my original one was long gone) is on another computer at home and I don't know if it includes anything about tithing. However, didn't Jesus say that when you gave not to let your left hand know what your right hand was doing? Didn't He also say that if your giving was made public then you had your reward? I think there may be a lot of suprised folks come judgement day! Also, contracts generally spell out both sides' responsibilities, but I'm betting that EN "covenant" to mention anything regarding the "leadership" or "church's" responsibility to the member.

Speak - when I left Maranatha I walked out of the center at the end of the day (I managed the bookstore that was located in the "ministry") and went and rented a motel room. There was a meeting that night and instead of going to the meeting I went back to the "staff house", packed my bags and the rest of my stuff in boxes, left Bob Martin a note and spent the night in the motel. I had arranged for a moving van to pick up my furniture and boxes and they were coming the next day. I fully expected Bob to be there when I showed up with the van, but he wasn't. Now, was I the coward or was Bob? I'm guessing a little of both! ;-D At any rate, my thought on this is why put yourself through useless manipulation and abuse? Anyone who's been on the other end of one of these things (and I confess I've been on the manipulative side a couple times) knows the plot line.

And when folks trot out that whole thing with Mt. 18, well, two things: First, the leaders don't really believe it's applicable to them, anyway, since the folks leaving who have the "ought" aren't their "covering". It's extraordinarily disingenuous and deceitful to bring it up when they wouldn't receive the "faults" you shared with them anyway. Secondly, tell 'em as soon as they start following Mt. 18:4 you'll do the other - "Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven." Then bring up Luke 22:25-27 where the Lord says "The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

Groups like this apply scripture however it's convenient and they ignore whatever is inconvenient. They can come up with the craziest stuff out of the OT and totally discount Christ's teaching in the Gospels. Well, God is the judge.

}

john_r_jones

08-31-2006, 12:29 PM

As for me this morning I'm fixing lunch for the auto mechanics that keep my contraptions alive, putting up insulation batts in the room I'm re-doing and listening to some rock and roll I cobbled together from my radio station in a can. Oh and piddling about on the internet being obsequious and staying put on the trail.

John

speakword2004

08-31-2006, 01:36 PM

John

Here's the rock and roll in my head today!

CALIFORNIA DREAMIN'
(Phillips-Phillips)

All the leaves are brown and the sky is gray
I've been for a walk on a winter's day
I'd be safe and warm if I was in L.A.
California dreamin' on such a winter's day

Stopped in to a church I passed along the way
Well I got down on my knees and I pretend to pray
You know the preacher liked the cold
He knows I'm gonna stay
California dreamin' on such a winter's day

------ flute ------

All the leaves are brown and the sky is gray
I've been for a walk on a winter's day
If I didn't tell her I could leave today
California dreamin' on such a winter's day
California dreamin' on such a winter's day
California dreamin' on such a winter's day

matt_hatter

08-31-2006, 02:17 PM

Me? I am supposed to be working, but the words on this thread have kept me from it.

"So I am content with allowing others to accept or reject what I say and give them the space to experience God's grace in His way for them. I wish however that I had been at a place of hearing then it would have saved me a great deal of heartache." JRJ

Words like this and original Starburst Candy are such a good mix. AllieCat says I eat the junkiest candy, but I tell her it is the kid in me. Sweet Tarts Rule.

Matt 'sweeeet' Hatter

miltietoast

08-31-2006, 09:01 PM

I have dodged those committment sheets and non compete agreements and statements of understanding for years. i say let me take this home and look it over and that is the end of it until someone says but you signed such and such and I say can I see the form I signed? Great fun

john_r_jones

08-31-2006, 09:13 PM

Whatdaya call a star with a tail on it?

Hmmmm?

John

john_r_jones

09-01-2006, 01:27 AM

Lassie!

Jesus in His ministry used the comon vernacular as the marble block He chisled his image of the Father from. He shaped for us the human face of God. Such is the case with the rabbinical parable of the vinyard where workers labored for a wage. The typical parable would tell us about those who went into the vinyard early and labored through the heat of the day they would be rewarded for their diligence. He, however spoke of not only recruiting the eager beavers who got with it in the morning but he went out and found the loafers and nere-do-wells that were loitering about in the mid-day and even the late afternoon, those not usually sought after or even considered at all to come put in a "Day" in the vineyard. At the end of said day he sat down and settled-up with everyone issuing the same pay to each laborer. Imagine paying the deft professionals the same as rank amatuers. Imagine considering the faithful in the same light as the faithless. His rejoinder to the outrage at the scandal of his generousity was that the vinyard was his to do with as he pleased.

Jesus commended the unfaithful steward for his shrewdness in making friends with those he owed money to, in effect saying to work it out with your fellow travelers on the road of life because guess what you all are in debt with the man.

John

john_r_jones

09-01-2006, 03:32 AM

Here's one way to go and make (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilQyc_-6REY&NR) disciples.

John

speakword2004

09-01-2006, 05:02 AM

Today's the first day of spring. Thank you Jesus for that ironic word yesterday!

speakword2004

09-01-2006, 05:26 AM

Here's the Speakword discipleship course TM:

Henry:Don't tell me. I don't want to know about it. You guys have my full permission, and I never said that. I mean, I'm not even here, so how could I? Radar!
Radar: Sir?
Henry: Make an entry in the daily report that I wasn't here today, and bring it to me so I can sign it.
Radar: Uh, sir, if you sign it, it'll show you were here.
Henry: Then you sign it for me.
Radar: Yes, sir. Should I sign your name?
Henry: You'll have to, because I'm gonna say it was a forgery.
Radar: Yes, sir.
Henry: Well, no sense hanging around if I'm not here.

speakword2004

09-01-2006, 05:31 AM

The first chapter of the Pink Book (aka as the Every Nation Liberation Front-ENLF-manual for new
recruits.

Chapter 1: How to Forment Bitterness and Rebellion.

Igor:We have liver or fish.
Hawkeye: "I didn't hear you say that, because it isn't possible. It's inhuman to serve the same food day after day! The Geneva Convention prohibits the killing of our taste buds! I simply cannot eat the same food every day! Fish, liver, day after day! I've eaten a river of liver and an ocean of fish! I've eaten so much fish, I'm ready to grow gills! I've eaten so much liver, I can only make love if I'm smothered in bacon and onions! Are we gonna stand for this?! Are we gonna let them do this to us?! NO! I say, NO!! WE'RE NOT GONNA EAT THIS DRECK ANYMORE!! WE WANT SOMETHING ELSE!!!
[Everyone else in the mess tent is chanting, WE WANT SOMETHING ELSE!!!]
Hawkeye: DRAFTEES OF THE WORLD ARISE!!! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR COOKIES!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PA Announcement: Due to conditions beyond our control, we regret to announce that lunch is now being served.

speakword2004

09-01-2006, 05:39 AM

CHAPTER 22:
HOW TO AVOID ATTENDING CHURCH SERVICES, HOME CELLS AND SERVING AS AN USHER:

Klinger: Colonel Potter, sir! Corporal Klinger. I'm section eight, head to toe. I'm wearing a Warner bra. I play with dolls. My last wish is to be married in my mother's wedding gown. I'm nuts. I should be out!
Potter: Horse hockey. I've been in this man's army forty years. Seen all the tricks. Knew a private who said he was a mare. Carried a colt in his arms for weeks. Knew another fellow who said he was a daisy. Insisted we water him every morning. No, no, Corporal, that ain't gonna go with me. Now you get out of that froufrou and into a uniform. And you stay in uniform.

miltietoast

09-01-2006, 10:34 AM

Whatdaya call a star with a tail on it?

Shooting cast?

john_r_jones

09-01-2006, 01:00 PM

I was reading on the Charles Stanley thread about dingy ongoings of Christians and thought about MLTS.

The last one had no budget for a "Set" so I ordered a huge roll of black plastic and had a generic black backdrop we hung off of the balcony railing behind the stage and draped flags from the light grid we flew. During the event the gaffer tape we used to secure the flags to the light grip gave-up in the heat of the lighting instruments.

I'd watch a flag stream down to the stage and thought, "Well there's a prophetic sign if ever I saw one." In retrospect watching those same nations trampled underfoot by our progeny gives me further dismay at how pivotal those days were.

John

john_r_jones

09-02-2006, 10:44 AM

I was reading this morning about Jesus going to the notorious sinner's house, Zaccheus. Brennen Manning writes of Jesus' freedom to be pleasing to the Father and thereby able to seek out the sinners, the marginal and outcasts without the attendant hand wringing of respectability. I personally marvel at the one most holy whose companions aren't in dread of His presence. Jesus did this as it came to Him naturally because He knew who He was and His sense of identity didn't come from externals. Jesus walked the streets of Jericho with Zaccheus in full view of everyone knowing the significance of table fellowship with this ignoble man.

This freedom comes not from self determinism to be generous to the underclass, or benevolence to some unfortunate as a project for character development. This comes from the intimate knowledge of how the Father views us, not a scintilla of worth we have is self derived or generated. In fact those efforts to pad our resume are offensive and unnecessary, they distract from the matter at hand realizing our worth comes from His deeming us loveable alone.

John

matt_hatter

09-02-2006, 12:10 PM

YES SIR!!!

john_r_jones

09-02-2006, 09:59 PM

I'd like to take a moment and honor all the expectant mothers on this Labor Day weekend.

John

lablady2

09-02-2006, 10:04 PM

Thanks, John. It's been a tough nine months, and twins at the age of 52...oy vey! But little Bevis and Butthead are doing well and I expect they should bring a nice price on Ebay.

matt_hatter

09-02-2006, 10:18 PM

Allie and I got married 28 years ago today...on Labor Day weekend...and I have made her work ever since. First job: LABOR and delivery, helped deliver Miltie and Rae's first born. Think I will keep her.

lablady2

09-02-2006, 10:21 PM

aw, that's neat! Does she still do labor and delivery? That's the job I'm hoping for in about six months. If not L&D, what kind of nursing does she do now?

Happy Anniversary!

matt_hatter

09-02-2006, 10:29 PM

Thank you! She left hospital floor work years ago..works for State Health Dept, Nurse Administrator, runs a couple of federal programs for the state. Been wearing 'civvies' for 20 years.

It was a wonderful memory, with Miltie and Rae. That little girl was like ours for many years...
SteveO didnt come along for 13 years from our wedding day.

lablady2

09-02-2006, 10:34 PM

Wow...13 years. That's amazing and probably some kind of record within MCM. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

Yeah, floor work is stressful. I want to give it one last shot before I start wearing the blue vest at Wal-Mart.

mdillon

09-02-2006, 10:42 PM

labby congrats on B&B. do you have a "buy it now" price 'cause i'm thinking of bookends for these new shelves i'm building.

mattie-Think I will keep her.

yeah, right. more proof that allie doesn't lurk here. neither does miltie's raeann or my wifey. with all the hoohah we three put up here we could start a cutthroat blackmail something or other. i can't wait to tell allie this one.

happy aniversary. i'm buying, so here, have a double dip

dillyeaux

mdillon

09-02-2006, 10:47 PM

lablady2

09-02-2006, 10:48 PM

Boy, you guys have really trusting wives. Or they just don't give a rip. I have net nanny on hubbie's puter.

football7

09-03-2006, 12:09 AM

Congratulations-hatter. wow thanks for all the pictures I hope the got diamonds! My hubby Las learned, he buys the diamonds + I take Them back, I want a NEW kitchen But WI 5 kids, 2 in college-who knows.

matt_hatter

09-03-2006, 12:20 AM

ll"I have net nanny on hubbie's puter."

I am LMAO!

Allie is actually at her Mom's house 100 miles away and we are calling each other talking about the Auburn game. 28 years....unbelievable!!!

Matt

matt_hatter

09-03-2006, 12:31 AM

football 7, we quit buying diamonds and stuff years ago. It is all about kitchens, printers, wood floors, and paint now. Call me a hopeless romantic.

ginger1

09-03-2006, 12:50 AM

Ever go out on a date and end up in Home Depot ? One of my favorite store. I guess when you own a home, that would be anybody's favorite store.

lablady2

09-03-2006, 12:54 AM

sorry, md, I missed your comment. I would gladly donate B&B for a set of bookends, but I'm sure you could create something more attractive, witty, and intelligent that anything I can spit out. I will say that the two B's will probably inherit enough bodakadonk to make serviceable bookends.

lablady2

09-03-2006, 12:57 AM

Ginger, I LOVE Home Depot and Lowes, but it makes my husband very nervous for me to go. I can go to Lowes for a garden hose and come out with samples of kitchen cabinetry and granite countertops.

I am not allowed to go to Home Depot, Lowes or Circuit City without written permission, and I have to leave the Discover card at home.

ginger1

09-03-2006, 01:08 AM

Lowes is a bit expensive, I don't mind going there , they just have more selection. I love fixing things at home, The garden pipes, sprinkler system, trees , I go there most of the time is because of my garden. I have too many fruit trees in the backyard already.

I wish we have a bigger backyard...My hubby trust me when I go there. We had an agreement, he brings home the bacon, I take care of the house. BUT the kids are his job. He does not do anything most of the time, just spend time with the kids mostly. And that takes a lot of load off me every weekend. He works nights weekdays. BUT if the house is a mess, he should not complain. he is not allowed to complain.

matt_hatter

09-03-2006, 09:56 AM

football7, Allie has been wanting to go see her Mom, so I sent her on her way, put a card on the front seat loaded with cash. She called after she opened it and I told her to take her momma and hit the mall. Her eyes glazed over ( I could see this over the phone line) and then she calls from Dothan yakking like a school girl, that Momma matched my dough... I think she had more fun being 100 miles away at the mall than she did with me 28 years ago....

Later, I hear a full description of every outfit between Auburn touchdowns. I play the part of Clinton on "What not to Wear" murmuring a few "wows". (My mind is going, "throw the flag!!---block in the back!!)

Oh by the way, we honeymooned at the famous Conquistador, Ft Walton Beach, FL, site of that great pickup line by your hubby years later, "Y'all are hot-- How much you girls weigh anyway??"

The hopeless romantic, Matt Hatter

(Message edited by matt hatter on September 03, 2006)

john_r_jones

09-03-2006, 11:20 AM

Speaking of Cats, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyPY9SmhvQU&NR) this one hasn't had her coffee yet.

John

john_r_jones

09-03-2006, 11:25 AM

And this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5r5f8ekDxQ&mode=related&search=) comes in screw cap or pop top.

John

matt_hatter

09-03-2006, 11:28 AM

Sermon for this beautiful Sunday morning:

When someone is described as balanced, it is understood as a compliment, implying that the person is well adjusted, sensible, and stable. Balance sounds like a characteristic of the Christian faith...Balance sounds like a worthy ideal, a perfect description of a healthy follower of Christ.

Beware of balance.

Balance is a dangerous, illusionary characteristic and a temptress. Disguised as normal and sensible, it is silently destructive, crushing the unbalance of giftedness, taming the extremes of passion, smothering the raging fire of a genuine relationship with Jesus.

Michael Yaconelli

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Thunderbunny! (I know, been your brand of tobacco for years...)

Makes me want to shout!

Mattie

john_r_jones

09-03-2006, 11:37 AM

One of the great tragedies of modern Christianity is domesticated humans trained to sit-up, roll over, fetch and beg on command. Amen Matt and thanks!

John

dust

09-03-2006, 11:49 AM

And, if you've seen anything from the Brownsville movment, bark like a dog, oink like a pig, convulse like a bug, and fly like an airplane!

My favorite Benny Hin quote: I'm going to have to put this on someone, I have so much of the anointing on me right, now, if I don't do something with it, I'm going to blow up!

Okay when did Jesus ever worry about blowing up!

matt_hatter

09-03-2006, 12:52 PM

This type of nonsense...ooohhh....grinding my teeth! How about reading the Bible occassionally Binny Boy:

Passage Matthew 9:27-30:

27As Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed Him, crying out, "Have mercy on us, Son of David!"

28When He entered the house, the blind men came up to Him, and Jesus said to them, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?" They said to Him, "Yes, Lord."

29Then He touched their eyes, saying, "It shall be done to you according to your faith."

30And their eyes were opened. And Jesus sternly warned them: "See that no one knows about this!"

What a contrast.....

dust

09-03-2006, 12:55 PM

Hey Everyone:

Happy Labor Day Weekend. Forword and I are running a 5K tomorrow (the Franklin Classic) to raise money for the Mercy Children's Clinic (non-profit for kids who don't have health insurance). They get a regular physician and an appointment.

It's an organzation that relies on community effort and SEVERAL churches, (but not EN church). And, no one can brag or take credit.

Thank you also to a few fact net buddies who have helped us raise money for the clinic by sponsoring us.

It's a Christian organization that serves the community and doesn't ask, "are you a Christian or are you a member?" And doesn't make a judgement about lack of faith, or poverty spirit or spirit of lack. Refreshing to just see the heart of Jesus, to see what MERCY looks like.

In some ways, our run tomorrow morning is a freedom run. We know what we're supporting is real and WILL goes to the needy!

dust

09-03-2006, 01:02 PM

Mat, I'm just grateful that somehow (Holy Spirit somehow), I have never fallen for this kind of stuff. It mocks God, and they treat the Holy Spirit like energy that can be thrown around the room instead of like GOD.

The Holy Spirit is GOD. Now that makes me shiver a little bit. (we may have to go the serious section and start a thread on that one).

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

matt_hatter

09-03-2006, 01:28 PM

Hey, the Bunny trail...can make you laugh, and one post later can bring tears...its all good here!

The 'holy laughter' thing that Tikie linked to one time shocked even me. It looked demonic. And then Copeland and friend carrying on a conversation in jibberish, while the crowd went wild....WHY? I ask...Why would a crowd go wild at this stuff? What did it do to glorify God? It drew all the attention to two strutting peacocks...much like Mr Hinn does on a nauseating daily basis.

Some may say I am contradicting my quote above...quite the opposite...this stuff is the 'balanced', approved, legit behaviors of
a dangerous prideful movement that says "we are moving in a higher realm." I know this....because I believed it at one time and followed the monkey see, monkey do mentality. To have an original thought in Maranatha...oh I forgot...that was called that nasty demon of rebellion! What an idiot I was!!!
Now, I hope I am just a fool for Christ!
Mattie

mcmstaff78

09-03-2006, 01:35 PM

The very things in the modern pentecostal movement, epitomized in the "Holy laughter" crowd, that leaders and crowds proclaim as evidence of the Holy Spirit in centuries past were seen as evidence of the demonic. We really are in an age where demons have convinced people they are the "angels of light". In the few places in the scriptures that describe heaven, I don't read anything about laughter, barking, running around, or the like. I see a lot of falling on one's faces (not on one's back) crying out, "Holy, Holy, Holy is our God".

In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. (Isa 6:1-4)

matt_hatter

09-03-2006, 01:51 PM

And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as a dead man. And He laid His right hand on me, saying. "Do not be afraid..."
Rev 1:17

Funny, we never had any dead men services during my time in MCM. Too busy shouting our lungs out to fall down in terror before the Living God.

This should be our poverty stricken, human, natural response to our Master, and thankfully He gives us the *supernatural* reasurrance, "do not be afraid".

matt_hatter

09-03-2006, 01:56 PM

Dust, we have an inner city clinic in Montgomery, and a Dr friend of mine voluteers once a week. It is a worthy thing, and I hope y'all's clinic raises some needed cash, ours is always strapped for funds. Start hydrating now, that's what SteveO's coach tells him the day before a big game!

dust

09-03-2006, 02:06 PM

MCM: demons have convinced people they are the "angels of light".

I have watched about six hours of the DVD's from Bill M. They are worth getting. So eye opening. And, they give the proper biblical backup for what's wrong with this stuff. Lately, I've had an even deeper discernment and have had to take a look at some of my thoughts/ways that are left over from my EN experience.

What is a REAL move of GOD? Weeping in repentance, so in awe of God, speechless.

Yesterday (on my practice run), and on my iPod, comes a John Lennon song The one where he doesn't believe in anything (GOD).

God is a Concept by which
we measure our pain
I'll say it again
God is a Concept by which
we measure our pain
I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in Tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in Mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in Yoga
I don't believe in Kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me...and that reality

Well, this moved me not just to tears, but sobbing. I'm running down this hill and I'm overcome with this pain for the lost, and those deceived by religion....it hit me so hard.... And, sadness that Jesus was misunderstood as an "idol" and why did Lennon think this? Why the disillusionment? And, the idea of people being THIS separated from God nearly knocked me over in grief!

And, then I thought of my own experiences with religion and I was right there where he was for a time in my life, until I was reintroducd to Jesus. And, then a short 2 years later, in an EN church and realizing had I been a bit greener, younger, I might be singing this same song, rejecting everything.

Yes, MCM, Holy, Holy, Holy, God is tears, God is being speechless, God is grieiving for the lost. God is here!

matt_hatter

09-04-2006, 01:12 PM

I have done my labor for Labor Day. Spent the morning cleaning out my front yard flower bed. So pretty in early spring, but a wreck by Aug-Sept. Especially due to this extreme summer we have had. Reminds me of the Master and me...I think I am so "blooming" great at times, and He decides it is time for a little heathy pruning. The end result is great, as I will have a beautiful late fall bloom of Lantanna now that I have trimmed it back.

At Floyd's Spiritual Barber Shop, I will wait until the Lord's can fit me into His chair..for a "high and tight" trim.

Matt

miltietoast

09-04-2006, 11:33 PM

Beware of balance======cream of the crap?
I finished my day of labor,always honor labor day with labor ,worked on the treehouse and started bands and joist on spec log cabin
Lowes is calling my name like a Clarence Carter song(was it Patches?)

mdillon

09-05-2006, 02:12 AM

glad to see the egyptian water level worked for you footers, miltie. i am bringing my rocker early october to watch you put this together and offer moral and liquid support. i labored myself today. installed custom Miss Kitty Slimline Stackables that spanned a huge wall. could hide your Kubota nicely.

happy pruning hatter on the "high and tight" don't forget the hot shave.

dillyeaux

miltietoast

09-05-2006, 06:07 AM

Master Dilly your pictures of the slimline in it's proper place is truly a delight only slightly diminished by the fireplace. Could you send me an extra fireplace for my project? Maybe I should commission you for some adirondack chairs. You can bring the plans. Remember it is BYORC(bring your own rocking chair)

miltietoast

09-05-2006, 06:09 AM

Took some pictures of treehouse just before sunset. If I could figure how to post them I would.Honorable grasshopper needs help master

j2theperson

09-05-2006, 06:38 AM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Miltie:Took some pictures of treehouse just before sunset. If I could figure how to post them I would.Honorable grasshopper needs help master<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
Probably the easiest thing to do would be to get a free (huzzah!) Photobucket (http://www.photobucket.com/) account. Upload your pictures there and then post a link for us to click on.

miltietoast

09-05-2006, 07:05 AM

Thanks J2 see if this works

Hello,

You have been invited to visit a photo album http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/miltietoast/

j2theperson

09-05-2006, 07:11 AM

Huzzah! It works. But the picture I see does not fit my idea of a "tree house".

miltietoast

09-05-2006, 07:15 AM

talk to dilly about that
It sits on a bluff with a 40 mile view and a700 foot drop off. Built it like Little House on Prairie school/church house

miltietoast

09-05-2006, 07:27 AM

J2 just added another pic
thanks for help

miltietoast

09-05-2006, 08:01 AM

dilly maybe thinking of treehouse in our backyard with a zipline down to the pool
dilly do you have the interpretation brother?

mdillon

09-05-2006, 12:44 PM

miltie-dilly do you have the interpretation brother?

I see men as trees walking. a bigger one? lay hands on me and pray again, just don't rub spit in my eyes.

miltie-Could you send me an extra fireplace for my project?

fireplace is ready, cheap labor, but the shipping is astronomical.

nice bucket 'o photos miltonius. I zoomed in and saw another timber rattler smiling at me. great shots. (thank you J2 sensei)

dillyeaux

miltietoast

09-05-2006, 01:10 PM

my timber rattler is drying on a board,it is going to be my mantle (no not fireplace you dilly)

mdillon

09-05-2006, 01:33 PM

wow. a snakeskin speedo. speakword will be impressed. be sure to wrap correctly

dillyeaux

flo1151

09-05-2006, 03:38 PM

dilly,
phillip needs some help over on the other thread

malcontent flo

speakword2004

09-05-2006, 03:45 PM

No, I am not impressed. White speedos, white mantle robes and red beanies only. I insist on uniformity and adherence to our corporate image. Snakeskin speedoes are a heresy that must be wiped off the face of the planet.

BTW. Does the rattle still rattle?

flo1151

09-05-2006, 03:51 PM

Good thing about bunnies they reproduce like crazy.Reproducing bunnies factnet cult. Like it better than my old cult.

mdillon

09-05-2006, 04:06 PM

speak-BTW. Does the rattle still rattle?

only when he dances. but miltie sure looks better in it than spandex. kindofa billy jack thing. he's looking for a new image, its worth the nonconformity.

flo, i don't want to be a malcontent. i am a happy bunny in a happy bunny cult.

dillyeaux

coppertree

09-05-2006, 05:45 PM

Hi Flo You are cracking me up about new bunny babes in MCM, we had rob someone else cradle. Or dress up the older ones to look young, so we would be fruitful !}

miltietoast

09-05-2006, 08:49 PM

Milty's nicknames over the years
sidewinder-affectionate term given to me by my football coach because I was the first soccer style placekicker (boy that sort of dates me)he ever coached

snake--maybe less than affectionate term of my friends originating from accidently straddling timber rattler looking for my frequently wayward golf shots,going where no golfer would dare go. Snake recovered after a couple of days
My last encounter snake did not rattle but I thought I heard him say Hoe!

speakword2004

09-06-2006, 09:27 AM

Jones is second from the right with the corporal's stripes. See blog entry: Old Friends

http://blogspace.mweb.co.za/site/alias__bodyhits/19927/default.aspx

matt_hatter

09-07-2006, 05:03 PM

speak-BTW. Does the rattle still rattle?

My Dad has rattles lined up in his study on his desk next to his name plate. Probably 20 or more diamondbacks that he has sent to hell over the years... The rattles are all very functional, and the grandkids will still go in there and play with them from time to time. We like to juggle possums too.

Matt

john_r_jones

09-08-2006, 12:55 PM

Friends... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6RSmIxLXaM)'nuff said?

John

john_r_jones

09-08-2006, 02:16 PM

Well we're plumbing and wiring today, then it's tiling and decorative concrete. A little insulating thrown in for fun and viola an episode of This Old Fart.

John

john_r_jones

09-08-2006, 09:25 PM

I've cooked up a little something in the Hutch (http://johnshutch.blogspot.com/) today.
John

john_r_jones

09-08-2006, 10:40 PM

In my above post instead of an instrument let's say with flourish voila!

J2 the person you have a grasp of the realities of life-in your last post it seems the depths of the matter(s) at hand have been plumbed.

Thanks,
Old Fart

j2theperson

09-08-2006, 11:37 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

John: In my above post instead of an instrument let's say with flourish voila!<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
A viola might not be the same as exclaiming "voila", but it is a step up from spelling it "walla".http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

john_r_jones

09-09-2006, 09:26 AM

J2,
That's how they do it in Washington state.

OF

john_r_jones

09-11-2006, 03:28 AM

Sunday's sermon (http://broadmoor-umc.org/templates/cusbroadmoor/details.asp?id=34320&PID=354429&Style=) on September 3 might be of interest for us.

John

maranatha1984

09-13-2006, 06:00 PM

Hi John
Could you e-mail me at Maranathaoriginal@yahoo.com

I have a blog research question that you could help me with

Thanks

Tikie

flo1151

09-14-2006, 02:50 AM

poor kremshttp://www.shadoehaze.com/photo-galleries/misc7/bad_kill.jpg http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

john_r_jones

09-14-2006, 02:57 AM

In Luke we're told of an instance where John sent word from prison through his disciples to ask Jesus a pretty simple question. "Are you the one or should we look for another?" Jesus replied after they'd been with Him a few days that the lame walk, the blind see and the sick are healed. It for us is a textbook case of "Jesus go gettem" of the signs and miracles of the New Testament.

For John's disciples it meant something entirely different, Jesus was hanging out with the undesirables the outcasts, the sicknesses, and other calamities of life that had befallen them were God's judgement for their sins in the eyes of most Jews. John as others might be able to accept Jesus as a do-gooder who used His supernatural powers to help some unfortuante souls but what John was asking is something we moderns ask all the time; Jesus is this all you're gonna do?' We're here for the take charge portion of the show, the dominion part, the ruling and reigning part when does that start Jesus...how about now! Here Jesus was-is neck deep in undesirables, sinners and those assumed to be judged of God healing them and raising the dead and that was a taboo touching dead people who were unclean, lepers and all the rest made you unclean and unfit for ministry. John was asking since you are engaging in things that make you unfit for ministry in our estimation are you really a Messiah? You eat with moneychangers, prostitutes, notorios sinners, traitors to the nation, flesh-peddlers, the diseased is that the business of a Messiah? I like Jesus' response I'm doing naturally what I see the Father doing caring for humanity in all of their sin and brokenness, in all that you've assumed was a curse I'm drawn to. My ministry is here, my power flows from the throneroom of a Holy God to the edges of town the place where brothels and deviants, criminals, cheats, swindlers and the weak are found.

I'll contrast that with the cleansing of the temple where Jesus fashioned a scourge and drove out those who traded in the choicest doves, the purest and most luxuriant lambs and other finery of the religious trade. He broke the displays of Gucci religiousity, of ostentatious practice that assumed a place of recognition, of special merit, of honor and wealth bestowed by a score keeping God. The kind of Messiah they looked for didn't arrive, one to take the reigns of power, one to give them a place of recognition for their faith and rectitude, of earnest service and gratuitous observance of the rules. In fact this Messiah assumed His place of rulership smelling bad. blood spatered, broken and barely recognizable as a human much less a King. In fact they wrote it as a joke in three languages and posted it above His head on the cross-King.

John

john_r_jones

09-17-2006, 01:21 PM

We're going thru Genesis as a bible study at church; several members of my Sunday school class have notified us of their intent to adios as a consequence. I am sad to see them go but I know that allowing folks the freedom to disagree and not hate is something we are learning about.

I wrote an E-mail to a friend the other day and this thought came to me as I was writing him:

Jesus said on the cross, "Father forgive them for they don't know what they're doing..." I read this and thought, they sure thought they knew what they were doing; the Sanhedrin, and the Roman procurator, knew what they were doing. It was a matter of expedience and politically astute folks dealing adroitly with a problem. Jesus was the problem for both the religious community and the Roman governor. The imperiled Jews were looking for a Messiah that would restore them to their former glory, the Procurator wanted to keep peace in his province and thereby keep his head. Somehow they managed to sway popular opinion and get the crowds they so feared to do and about face and rage against Jesus. This possibly the most charismatic, popular figure of the time was tried, sentenced, and executed as a common criminal the culmination of a sophisticated society of both power-Rome and religion-Israel. This is what Jesus termed on the cross ignorance the glory of Rome and the fervency of Jerusalem. In this ignorance of monumental proportion Jesus asked forgiveness. In our monumental ignorance, sometimes in the guise of do-goodism, we need forgiveness and to be forgiven as we forgive others as a part of our daily bread.

John

matt_hatter

09-17-2006, 01:45 PM

John, interesting that folks would leave Sunday School because y'all are doing a topical study of a book of the Bible. Any reason for it? We are headlong into Revelation, and there are Sundays when I just don't want to hear it, but my friendships are much more important than wanting to leave...on the other hand, it is the freedom to go do as you please that was lacking in the past.

A friend brought up a good point through email after Tikie's last chapter...How weird it would be today to actually uproot your home, family, job, school. etc, because a church changed direction....that is what happened with a few folks in the Ann Arbor fellowship---they totally left U of M and went to Michigan State to be in "Maranatha".
So I guess I would rather err on the side of the folks in your Sunday School....Matt

john_r_jones

09-17-2006, 08:05 PM

They aren't just leaving Sunday school, they're leaving church itself becasue the pastor is teaching about Genesis and the bible from a standpoint that the bible isn't a book of science. He states that the days of creation aren't literal days or even epochs of thousands of years. The "days" of creation are an affirmation that God created something out of chaos that he called good. He asks questions like where did the chaos come from, why in the first account of creation does he create man on the sixth day male and female and in the second account in the edenic story he creates Adam first and then Eve. He poses the idea that since the book of Genesis was written in exile it was an affirmation that their God was the true God, not the gods of the Babylonians and that their true God creates good out of the midst of chaos.
You might listen to the study (http://broadmoor-umc.org/templates/cusbroadmoor/details.asp?id=34320&PID=354430) for youself online I find it fascinating.

John

john_r_jones

09-18-2006, 11:11 AM

I opened an E-mail sent by one of our fellow factneters and MCMer which had photos in it of family and friends. Then a later photo sent by Dilly had him leaning up against a workbench in his shop. What I saw in those photos gave me the answer that much of our words miss-peace. I saw the peace and contentment of a man and a family that had a loving mom and dad-not a driven mom and dad which is the essence of our common spiritual past. It is also a part of our present that I seek to articulate feebly I suppose, "They shall know we are Christians by our love". Love writes it's message across a face not drawn taught by hatred, tension, or pressure. There unmistakably lies within something that can't be manufactured, drummed up, or coerced a sense of the center of ourselves rooted in Jesus. The discipleship of Jesus brings craftmanship to both our careers one of vocation and one of living life as a gift in appreciation to the giver. Thanks for sharing that gift Dilly.

John

john_r_jones

09-18-2006, 12:12 PM

Well,
I suppose I'm back to traipsing down the trail again trying to stay out of trouble; success at that?

Luke 12:37 "Blessed are those servants whom he finds awake when he comes." I sent someone a rather fiery E-mail a couple of days ago it was a response to something they'd shown me that struck deep for me. One of the waking moments of my Christian experience came when I realized how convenient it had become for me to moralize about my stuff because I'd been wounded as a Christian by someone I'd termed as mendacious. Jesus as is His habit caught me red-handed at the doing and I had a sit-down that wasn't a scolding it was a time for tears for them, for the person who'd wounded me, or persons who've done the same.

I began to pray over their lives, their families and such not with the romanticized notion that it would be reciprocated in any way but because the Lord Jesus called me to it. I view the authors of the New Testament as followers of Jesus; I view scripture through the lens of His words and deeds. Paul himself probably had a clear image of his conversion experience when he referred a turf battle of a follower between himself and Apollos as ones who do this or that but God gives the increase.

Jesus, as Brennan Manning writes is the human face of God. It is he who gave us the axis of the commandments which exercise regard for God and man as the essence of scripture in its entirety. Or as the Anglican and later it's Methodist offspring advise to consider God in the light of Scripture, experience, tradition, and reason, they al being considered gifts from God.

As I read our posts and understand the reasoning behind them I also have a sense of my own personal experience in prayer in which I can no more chew on someone as a foe than I could my own arm. One of the habits of man is to fixate on some evildoer and claim that if that were dealt with we'd all be better off. We luxuriate ourselves in that notion and sure enough with enough concentration and effort we deal with that whatever "that" is.

In my awakening experience I've come to see the death experience Jesus has called us to is just that a death to the quest for a "that" or a who, or cause other than following Jesus. Isn't that simplistic, naive, aimless, I'm asked? Well no it's non ego centric though, I don't make myself feel better or determine my worth by demonizing others, or marginalizing others, or demeaning them.

One thing Jesus learned I'm sure in the carpentry business is that His job was to make things fit, to work the wood in such a fashion that it was seamless where a joint came together. Possibly a decorative tusk or a scroll or other ornamentation might make the piece more appealing but the art of joinery is a hidden one where the craftsmanship lies hidden inside, the strength lies inside the joint.

Our strength and the good we do others is hidden within as the work of the Lord Jesus through the agency of the Holy Spirit builds within us His character, and His sense of worth, His hidden manna. He has called us to do greater works than He and yet we get distracted by things which He isn't involved in so much. Our works follow His path, in His footsteps. Where some of His followers were zealots and asked Him to call down fire on their opponents he had strong words for them; "You don't know what spirit you're of" When I’m tempted to tear into someone and I am tempted, like last night driving home some Bozo was honking his horn at me because I was in his way and not exceeding the speed limit enough to suit him. The scenarios played through my head and the one that I ended-up with was to get out of his way and enjoy the ride home. In a sense both metaphorical and literal.

John

mdillon

09-19-2006, 03:34 AM

jrj-Thanks for sharing that gift Dilly.

jonesy I've been hacking all day, my clacker is tired, and I see your post and I'm ripped.

All the years of searching and turmoil to find my place, and all of a sudden I find myself an extremely fortunate man.(thx labby) why? because I let go. I was brought to the precipice of Him asking me to let it all go and let Him do with me what He wanted, not what I wanted. It was the scariest step I've ever made. much darkness and hopelessness, woulda, coulda, shoulda, etc. He had to strip me of all that I would trust in save Him.

you must know, mon frere, that in the darkness I knew He was there and He was speaking if only in muffled tones. When I find your words, they run deep in me, because I know they come not from an ivory tower but from beneath, the place where He walked, in brokenness and solitude. And it makes clear my path behind me. I feast on your words like the richest of banquets because it leads me to Him.

you are the gift, jonesy, plain and simple.

dillyeaux

matt_hatter

09-19-2006, 05:22 AM

For you jonsey and dilly:

From the Ragamuffin Gospel:
"But the salvation that Jesus brought could not be earned. There could be no barganing with God in petty poker table atmosphere: 'I have done this; therefore you owe me that.' Jesus utterly destroys the juridicial notion that our works demand payment in return. Our puny works do not entitle us to barter with God. Everything depends on His good pleasure."

Look for me here or as I tunnel back to the hatter thread. I have grown weary of the back and forth of the head butting, Black Jack taught me that long ago. Just temporarily forgot. Need to be around the peaceful words of friends....thanks guys.

Mark (Matt)

coppertree

09-19-2006, 05:33 AM

Hi Dillyeaux,
Thank your post, about the quiet dark, the unknown , that He is still in. I met Him like that not too long ago, also. I was in fellowship with not much, I had blown my left knee. I had done a great job at that. Providentially for me I did it in a big college town; where they had wonderful doctors to choose from to put it together again with cadaver parts.

One day I came with great effort out of my vehicle with a lot of attending noise out my in a detached garage. I met Him there I was on two crutches balancing trying to move forward with my food that I just bought. He wanted my father. I did not want to give my Dad to Him. He asked and I said no, not yet let me try more. I would not relent, so I wrestled, as much I could. When it was over, I finally did. I said to Him that was not a fair fight. I heard Him laugh and say that it never was. That as in March that year, that June at the end my mother died. She never was sick and was coming from the Keyes to meet us all at the lake. It was a shock to say the least. My sister and I cared for my father until, he was put into a home. I still do not know the end of this ,I am still swimming through. I had to give up all I thought I knew to start again with Him. It is the only way. A little like hunting a whale; ok I do love Melville.}

(Message edited by coppertree on September 19, 2006)

wildwood_

09-19-2006, 06:11 AM

I've often wondered, what exactly the woman knew about Jesus when she reached out to touch just the edge of His robe...and was healed. Did she even know his name, or did she reach out because doing so was the most absolute pure reaction anyone could have when the Living Savior crosses their path?

I'm thankful my eyes crossed this thread tonight...and reminded me of why I keep coming back to this board... I surely see the Living Savior walking among us here. Each night it seems a different post speaks out to me, but I feel Him, hear His Laughter and know His Loving Kindness. Then I remember, My God is Big Enough...to cast my cares & doubts upon, to overcome my "best intentions" to serve Him, to Silence in a still small voice...all the clamor of those man-made idols in His Name; and reach out and Love each of us...One by One.

You all are in my prayers and thoughts this evening. May your dreams be Joy.

john_r_jones

09-19-2006, 09:42 AM

Many years ago I heard the Doxology I think on the Alleluia tape by the Gaithers-the original. I think it was while I was hanging around two women who were in our estimation "older" single women in Paducah, they shared an apartment. They drove a van around and had this eight track playing in it. It grabbed me as a twentyish kid and I would hum that tune which is the little ditty sung in most denominations as the ushers bring up the offering. But the meaning of that ages old song resounded in my heart and brings tears to my eyes even now, "Praise God from whom all blessings flow..." To my friends here that's the deal, His blessings, and His generosity, from which all of us here below and the angels above praise Him. I find the second part, "all ye heavenly host" interesting, they see God as He is I suppose and they see His generosity as praiseworthy. Not because they got all worked up in some emotional frenzy, heard the latest faith teaching, or found the gruv dude, because they see Him. To see Him I imagine is to see love, not mere toleration, but love; a giving energized by eternity's time unbound gaze on creation an agreement between the personalities of the Trinity of love towards us.

John

mdillon

09-19-2006, 02:11 PM

ctree-I had to give up all I thought I knew to start again with Him. It is the only way.

your post grips me coppertree. it is this path that so few will travel because it is fraught with peril and darkness, yet it is Him. Many shrink from His hand leading this way, I know I tried to ignore this path for years, yet there is no way around it. Wildy said it-to overcome my "best intentions" to serve Him

That this Only Way has been ignored by some is precisely the reason that Maranatha has been perpetuated in EN. I am forever marked by the season when He peeled my grimy fingers off the The Vision idol and gave me Himself.

dillyeaux

mdillon

09-19-2006, 03:08 PM

jrj-"all ye heavenly host" interesting, they see God as He is I suppose and they see His generosity as praiseworthy

I wonder too, jonesy, if the heavenly host are privy to our walk seeing the deeper praise, trust, faith from us to Him. They must marvel at that having never been separated from Him? Not that we would steal any of His wonderment due Him, its just perhaps they are able to witness these chosen yearning for Him who cannot be seen and Him dancing with us through the Veil.

dillyeaux

john_r_jones

09-19-2006, 03:15 PM

Amen Dilly
John

matt_hatter

09-19-2006, 06:21 PM

The Doxology...the one song I sing with all gusto in church, regardless of the strange looks I get from my surronding saints.
"Praise Him all creatures here below.."
My latest story about hauling fertilizer and seed sacks...and how truly thankful I was to still be among the living, but not just living, thriving, physically, spiritually, mentally. It made me want to drop the 50lb bag and sing it out loud!! "Rejoice evermore, pray with out ceasing" for sure!
Matt

wisedove

09-19-2006, 08:21 PM

It's nice to see some devotional going on on this trail. I am catching up as usual, and happened to read a quote from today's entry in MY Utmost for His Highest" in my quickverse edition for today, and it applies, so I will share a part of it here...
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Are you going on with Jesus? The way goes through Gethsemane, through the city gate, and on “outside the camp” (Hebrews 13:13). The way is lonely and goes on until there is no longer even a trace of a footprint to follow—but only the voice saying, “Follow Me” (Matthew 4:19).<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

I'm also participating in Ann Graham's study "The Revelation of Jesus" and we are going through the book of Revelation. It is an interesting study method that she is teaching us, and we are reminded to have our focus on JESUS, not on ourselves, as John did while on the isle of Patmos. While in exile, he was isolated, cut off, and had hardship upon hardship to deal with, yet he focused on the VISION of Jesus and testified of Him. Neat study. I see the book of Revelation in a new light. It's all about Jesus.

wisedove

09-19-2006, 08:24 PM

Continued...part of the challenge in today's lesson was "What is your Patmos?" How is your spirit in your "patmos" experience? Are we angry at God when we are isolated, cut-off, rejected, and blasphemed? Or, do we focus on Him and praise Him just for who He is?

I've been guilty of being angry at God for allowing certain things to happen to me unjustly, but in this study, I'm learning that it's not about me...(BIG light-bulb moment!) hehehe

coppertree

09-19-2006, 10:22 PM

Hi
Thank you Dilly, JRJones, dove , wildwood and Matt. That was hard for me to share, you made it easier, this fellowship on the net. Thanks again}

matt_hatter

09-19-2006, 10:38 PM

Copper, the trail is an amazing place. It can go from terribly zany to a place that makes it hard to swallow at times. You said:
"I had to give up all I thought I knew to start again with Him."

The tiny glimpse of His unmeasurable Grace just in these past few humid summer months have been overwhelming at times, and I have come to your same conclusion.

A full revelation of that Amazing Grace would have me like John on that Island of Patmos, falling down like a dead man. It is ALL Him!

wisedove

09-19-2006, 11:14 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

A full revelation of that Amazing Grace would have me like John on that Island of Patmos, falling down like a dead man. It is ALL Him!<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Matt, that reminds me of another thing we talked about today...dead men don't talk or move. They are still and quiet. I guess that's the way God wants us sometimes, prostrate before Him, not complaining about our problems, or telling Him how He can fit into our agenda, but just lay before Him still and quiet...in worship..

matt_hatter

09-20-2006, 01:46 AM

That wonderful Grace:

Our Father in heaven knows our frame and remembers that we are dust. He knew our inborn treachery, and for His own sake engaged to save us. His only begotten Son, when He walked among us, felt our pains in their naked intensity of anguish. His knowledge of our afflictions and adversities is more than theoretic; it is personal, warm and compassionate. Whatever befalls us, God knows and cares as no one else can.
A.W. Tozer

john_r_jones

09-20-2006, 10:06 AM

For those who like coffee imagine the smell of good fresh brewed stuff. That aroma gets us perked-up before the caffeine even hits our gizzard, it's a ritual for some their morning brew.

Or when I was still able to drink wine we found this Spanish bubbly called Cava, or cave since it couldn't be called champagne. But it employed the method of bottle fermentation that makes those little bubbles that tickle the nose and splash across the palate. For us a good bottle of this cheap bubbly and some Louisiana seafood and we were in heaven.

It's funny how we can make things in life sacramental, things that bring the divine into the profane existence of our fallen world. It's why we have communion in its varying forms to bring us to remembrance. Those candles we light in a couple of months at Advent remind us of the birth of a savior, once a year the grind of daily life if not stopping at least pauses for a moment to gaze in wonder at a cresh.

Our sometimes scorned Pagan incorporation of a tree from winter solstice festivals brings us a reminder of gifts, the gift of life, and the evergreen life of Jesus coursing through our souls today. That spruce smell along with the songs and trimmings give a festive atmosphere to life to remind us to celebrate the gift that is life. When you make that pot-o-coffee today remind yourself that you are called to wake-up on the inside each day spiritually as well.

John

mdillon

09-20-2006, 03:43 PM

jonesy

(_)?

(coffee mug thx to you know who)

thanks for that cup 'o cresh

that bring the divine into the profane

the incarnation, exactly, Him coming for us. wasn't our idea

dillyeaux

mdillon

09-20-2006, 03:52 PM

mattie and dovey

thank you for your quotes, meant to tell you.

tozer, chambers, have been on my short list for years. they have ruined me for all that is Man.

dillyeaux

matt_hatter

09-20-2006, 05:04 PM

"When you make that pot-o-coffee today remind yourself that you are called to wake-up on the inside each day spiritually as well." --jrj

John, how ironic that I was reading the Ragamuffin Gospel and came across this jewel last night:

"Living by the gospel of grace leads us into what Teilhard de Chardin called the divine milieu---a God-filled, Christ-soaked universe. A world charged with the grandeur of God. How do we live in the presence of the living God? In wonder, amazed by the traces of God all around us."

At the coffe pot, watching the hummngbirds, building furniture... the list...is endless.

mdillon

09-20-2006, 05:58 PM

mattie-At the coffe pot, watching the hummngbirds, building furniture... the list...is endless.

hey mattie, check your box. gotta furniture delivery

dillyeaux

wisedove

09-20-2006, 06:22 PM

hey, dilly-
glad you liked my quote...I am just realizing that I actually enjoy some of the same stuff my mom always had lying around the kitchen table, or in the bathroom....My Utmost for His Highest is incredible. I probably ignored it all of my teen and twenties years. I have rediscovered it with my recent purhase of Quickverse 2006...That is an awesome tool and piece of software...

When I open it, and click on devotions, and choose Oswald C. devotion, the one for the day just pops up.

Pretty neat. (It doesn't take much to excite me!)

matt_hatter

09-20-2006, 06:26 PM

Wow dude, the dovetails on the President Polk piece are amazing, and seeing your work on you homepage, http://www.markdillondesigns.com/ (shameless plug) I know you are up to the challenge.
Me? I am still hacking on the 3/4 in piece of oak dowel rod. Actually my project was a sucess, all I need now is a a few rounds to test its durability.

The Carpenter from Nazareth is proud of you, boy, for alot of reasons.

lablady2

09-20-2006, 07:44 PM

matt: Even though I've visited the website before, I just had to click on the link.

md's work is amazing. I have a love for things done with excellence and the workmanship is so impressive.

Flash forward 150 years. Some couple in 2156 on "Antiques Roadshow" with a piece of md's furniture, finding out they've just won the lottery. Makes me smile.

matt_hatter

09-21-2006, 04:20 AM

Labby, the boy has some real talent. I love a good dovetail connection, and I can see how difficult it would be to make 'real' furniture.

I was on the phone with Dilly the other day describing a very small 'project' that I was doing involving a piece of dowel rod, and I couldn't get the lenght just right, so I kept cutting off pieces from the long piece. By the time I got it right, I had 5 or 6 small pieces of rod and a pile of sawdust layered in Pepper's outside bed.

Of course, he laughed at me like a madman, and I thought I would have to get a hold of Ms Dilly to see if we needed to get him back in the horsepital.

We all have talents, I am trying to figure out what mine is. Let's see...I'm 50, give me another 25 yrs....

Lab, just want to say how much I have enjoyed reading your posts and getting to know you. You have a great sense of humor, and I am amazed at the number of friends from those days who do have such amazing wit, humor, and yes. sarcasm. I love it all.

In the year 2156, they will think that Matt Hatter built the piece, because I am going to take my Jr. Woodburner to TN and when his back is turned, I am going to carve my name on the bottom.

john_r_jones

09-21-2006, 09:07 AM

The London Polyglot is a curious volume of I think eight languages that comprise the scholarship of the day-1669 on scripture. Rare copies of this manuscript give us the languages of what was to become the bible.

The comparisons outline the understandings of instances where folks were taught by Paul in Africa-Ethioptic gospels if you will. Others the rabbinical interpretations of Paul's work in Syria and Asia Minor along with the Mediterranean Christians of Greco-Roman Empire up through Great Brittan. One of Paul's first forays into the ministry after his sojourn in Arabia was into the Judean region where many Pharisees believed as a consequence of Paul's teachings on among other things the Messiahship of Jesus.

Jesus a fellow countryman of theirs had become their Messiah as a consequence of Paul's interpretation of scripture. I am no scholar on this subject in the least, I find it interesting though that out of Paul's missional work, unheard of in Judaism at the time, that many of the antagonists of Jesus in his native region believed. Further I find the first church council meeting also interesting in that James and Peter come out of the session conceding Asia to Paul and that gentiles can indeed be Christians and that Jerusalem was to remain Jewish in practice and observe the law as the way of salvation though Jesus was the acknowledged Messiah.

Finally, I think Hebrews was written by an author other than Paul, though who really knows, but it could have been written by a Syrian who'd been touched by Paul's ministry. Whoever wrote it had a significant understanding of Old Testament prophecy and how New Testament events such as the destruction of Jerusalem were foretold by Jesus and was imminent.

John

lablady2

09-21-2006, 10:59 AM

matt: you are too funny. Is it "measure once and cut twice" or "measure twice and cut once"? I always get that confused.

I'm envious of md. I blow through hobbies looking for my passion, and so far, nothing sticks.

I don't think it's a coincidence that you and your friends are sarcastic and witty. I would say that the MCM experience whittled a pretty fine point on the ol' psyches.

I also love it all. What I love most is that we are able to transcend the past and whatever differences we had or have and just enjoy each other. To me, that is the work of God (who also has a sense of humor, I think).

matt_hatter

09-21-2006, 02:27 PM

LL: "What I love most is that we are able to transcend the past and whatever differences we had or have and just enjoy each other. To me, that is the work of God (who also has a sense of humor, I think)."

Labby, you put into words what has been rolling around in my feeble mind. It is the reason I post, and I have forgotten that. It is the lighthearted, AND inpirational stuff that keeps me here. No more back and forth stuff for me.

Yer pretty dang smart for a girl.

mdillon

09-21-2006, 02:31 PM

matt-Of course, he laughed at me like a madman

c'mon mattie, I was laughing <strike>at</strike> with you...

mattie,labby thanks for the props, you are too kind. in fact, it makes me feel so warm and tingly that I'm thinking up a factnet discount. I will give 50% off to anyone who sneaks behind the gate and spells 'Bob Weiner' on Rice Broocks' lawn in 10ft. letters with broken eggshells. (hi ricey) Oh forget the half off---s'on me.

dillyeaux

lablady2

09-21-2006, 02:52 PM

matt: "Yer pretty dang smart for a girl."

oy vey, evern.

(Message edited by lablady2 on September 21, 2006)

matt_hatter

09-21-2006, 09:55 PM

I had one of those Christ saturated moments this morning. The boy was up till 11:30 studying for Geometry and Biology tests. Upon leaving the truck this morning, I told him I would be praying for him, he thanked me, and patted my shoulder. I assumed the driver's seat, (he'e 15 and drives me to his school) and sat in the school parking lot for a few minutes of pure fellowship with the Lord. My prayer was simple, "help my boy, Lord, help him". It quickly turned from supplication to praise, simply thanking Him for my family, friends and blessings.

I have viewed some videos on another thread and find some of them the most disgusting display of hedonism and self promotion that one could imagine. But it has occured to me that Christ meets us in the parking lots, on our patios, in our special prayer closets, not on the runways with 20 million dollar jets.

There are MANY, MANY MORE of these encounters (personal private meetings with Christ) than there are of the religious rock stars making boastful exits from a personal jet. They have their reward in full, I suppose, it is not a life I even desire. I wonder if Christ would have even been welcomed on that runway full of screaming fanatics.

This daily, Christ saturated life is what I desire, more precious than silver, more costly than gold.

Matt

matt_hatter

09-21-2006, 11:24 PM

JRJ: Amazon.com was very good to me today.
Matt

john_r_jones

09-22-2006, 12:13 AM

Alright Mattie,
the soup thickens with our hero's dering-do. I'd keep a thermite grenade handy if things don't work out.

John

john_r_jones

09-22-2006, 08:55 AM

As a doddering old fool in training I suppose I take some pleasure as a spiritual tourist meandering through these cyber catacombs finding those renewed in their faith. Some Victorians are like a paper cut annoying but unsubstantial, others seem to have discovered what the residents of Sienna found justice and mercy.

Sienese residents of that city state weren't encumbered with the court of a Grand Duke or an imposing Duchy or Doge they had a Senate. Inscribed on the walls of the chambers from which they dispensed justice were the thoughts and mottos of their simple ideal. These spanned the notions of a need for justice and its attendant order amidst the chaos of life. But they plunked this down amidst the ideals of virtue, magnanimity, and mercy, not merely for lenience sake, but for the notion of Concordia-concord, the good of the community.

In the 18th century Europeans fancied themselves to be enlightened, the age of reason. It was also a time of corporal punishment as a form of amusement. Pillories and stocks were featured in villages and towns which of course made their way here. The offender would be punished by having their feet or heads and arms fastened in the devices for some prescribed length of time in public. Then passersby would hurl rotten food and smear them with feces so that at the end of their sentence they were quite filthy and probably violently ill from having these things forced into their mouths. Others would be suspended by their arms and dropped repeatedly until their arms were dislocated and eventually their spines snapped and they were left to either die or crawl away somehow.

I sometimes wonder if we engage in behavior that has that taint to it to make those we disagree with suffer some public humiliation, we being enlightened so.

John

john_r_jones

09-22-2006, 09:17 AM

I've scribbled a bit in the hutch. (http://johnshutch.blogspot.com/)

John

matt_hatter

09-22-2006, 03:17 PM

John, I am so confused. Is J2 a dude? I knew I liked her. Kramer, on Sienfield, had an invention for guys called a "bro". It is marketed to all of us out of shape old guys.

Dude looks like a lady to me, however. Thinks logically like a dude, though....

BANG! Epiphany! I got it! She's a Vulcan!

j2theperson

09-22-2006, 05:44 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Matt: Dude looks like a lady to me, however. Thinks logically like a dude, though....

BANG! Epiphany! I got it! She's a Vulcan!<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
Hah hah! Would that that were true. I'd love being an alien and having pointy ears. But the truth is much more mundane...both my parents are lawschool graduates--which is one of the reasons why I have such little respect for Krems. I'm thinking law school standards were really lowered over the course of the last thirty years.

ginger1

09-22-2006, 05:51 PM

Matt, she is a Vulcan Chick !

A smart one too !

ginger1

09-22-2006, 05:58 PM

Matt, Thats amazing you only have one kid. We got three accidents I am like a bunny LOL ! had to stop immedietly according to hubby.
There is no more much love to spread around with these three, because if we ever had a fourth one, its not love any longer, its all about CONTROL !

matt_hatter

09-22-2006, 06:22 PM

Ginger, the 4th one would have you chasing them around a kitchen table--the image of that is too funny, although it probably was not funny for you at the time!

J2- I, too, have found the basic lack of attention to detail in him to be just amazing; I read these threads and pocket the personal info about people, as I have always enjoyed fellowship with ALL kinds of God's strange and wonderful creations. It is not that hard to pay attention.
Considering the profession, and the need to have that exactness and logical mindset, I find it even more amazing.

Live Long and Prosper, Dudette.

ginger1

09-22-2006, 07:00 PM

Matt, I would have become like my mom. Chasing the kids around the table with a bamboo stick.

I did remember praying to the Lord that Please I do not want to be like her. I guess the Lord knew I had to stop having babies. He has to keep me in control in that department LOL !

ginger1

09-22-2006, 07:03 PM

Here is some of the tales/ lies I learned. Breast feeding will prevent women from getting pregnant.
You will lose weight if you breast fed. I had two babies on each arms ! I still did not lose weight !

matt_hatter

09-22-2006, 07:11 PM

Well, JRJ, I see the bunny trail lives true to its name. LOL
BTW, Ginger...SteveO was born when I was 35, Allie was 31. I started thinking..."Wow, when he starts driving, I will be 50!!...hmmm...think we might need to keep this family unit small."

Well, here it is, he's driving under learner's permit, and I am 50. Thank goodness there are no younger ones coming up behind him as I would probably not make it to 60. Dilly and Miltie, on the other hand, did not get my revelation.

He bench presses 270, so I made need to borrow that bamboo stick...for protection. LOL

ginger1

09-22-2006, 08:06 PM

think we might need to keep this family unit small."

HAH ! we tried that and it did not work. Everytime he comes home from overseas (US Navy) I get pregnant. People commented "YEP ! he is home alright ".

matt_hatter

09-22-2006, 11:20 PM

Well, my dad was Army, but we know about those Navy guys. Ha!
Keep plugging on the other threads, seems the old dudes have run out of steam. We are sitting in rocking chairs while someone tells the story of Oral Roberts at MLTS. Sorry I missed that one. Sounded about as good as the "Rose, Where's the Exlax?" MLTS that Tikie wrote about.

j2theperson

09-23-2006, 01:50 AM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Matt: I, too, have found the basic lack of attention to detail in him to be just amazing<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
Have you read our most recent disagreement (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/24363.html?1158969570#POST340875)? I, honestly, just don't understand him. I have him, in his own words, stating that he started posting here for the purpose of disagreeing with us. If I am to believe him, he forgot--not the details of what somebody else wrote--but the details of what he himself wrote. How can you forget the basic motivating reason behind a long term activity you're engaging in?

I don't understand him. It's not a matter of hating him or despising him or not loving him. I just don't understand him. Part of me thinks that somebody as obscenely obtuse as JB must be putting us on--but he has a web presence outside of FACTnet which seems to be consistent with his persona here. His posts originate from the city and state he claims to live in. His Xanga site receives comments from people who, apparently, go to the church he claims he attends. He seems to be who he claims to be, but part of me cannot help but think he's not genuine--that he's just a big practical joke someone is playing on us.

Simply stated, I don't understand how someone can be as utterly stupid as he is and yet supposedly be a lawschool graduate who has passed the bar exam. I know that sounds harsh, but I don't know how to express it in a nicer way. There's something off about him. Every other person who has posted on this board has made sense to me (and that includes the Mar/EN defenders as well as that crazy woman who claimed she was Jane Leade reincarnated), but JB does not make sense to me. I simply do not understand how he can be what he claims to be.

40days40years

09-23-2006, 02:21 AM

Can someone please post a link to the Krem de la Krems site? I want to check it out, thanks.

coppertree

09-23-2006, 02:30 AM

Hi J2th
Yes I quite agree with you, that is my point also. It could a joke, or someone writing a book, article or trying to egg us on to look bad. I was a teacher and he reminds me of a freshman prank of sorts.}

j2theperson

09-23-2006, 02:50 AM

This, 40/40, is Krem's Xanga page (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=jbkrems). The first post was made on April 27th; does anyone know when Krems first started posting here on FACTnet? You can also do a google search on the name "jbkrems" and you will turn up some message boards he has posted on.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Coppertree: Yes I quite agree with you, that is my point also. It could a joke, or someone writing a book, article or trying to egg us on to look bad. I was a teacher and he reminds me of a freshman prank of sorts.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I know, it does seem like it could be that, but, at the same time, he seems too dedicated for someone just pulling a prank (after all, he's been posting here--regularly and excessively--for months). If his intention is to make us look bad it simply isn't working; I think we have responded to him in an overall tolerant manner. What sort of book or article do you think he could be writing? Is it possible that he has mental or emotional problems? (I'm not saying definitely that I think he does; I just wonder if it's a possibility.) I would very much like to figure out exactly what is going on with him.

wildwood_

09-23-2006, 03:23 AM

Hey J2! Well, I was worried when I saw the phrase "that crazy woman..." but much to my relief I do not remember being Jane Leade reincarnated; I'm not going back to see who was...

Logic...hmmm, the Vulcan mind...No none of us are probably who we say we are--LOL. But,Dang It Jim, I'm not a brick layer...I'm a Doctor! But, there's the "Doctor" using a trowel & some cement...Well, if I cannot cite Star Trek on a Bunny Thread...as an inspirational source, my galaxy grows smaller and so does my imagery material.

As it is, pulling up a rocking chair with Hatter and the old dudes (!) seems a mighty fine place to watch the night sky... Wonderful entry in your blog JohnR...makes me look up at the stars.

All cats and dogs should beware of their paw and tail placement...Rocking Chairs have no conscience (and J2t...did you ever consider that your cat was trying to trip you??? And then blame you if you fell & broke your neck...My Dog keeps trying this plot...she eliminates me, she gets my husband all to herself...she forgets that she will then also have my daughter, too...).

Hey Coppertree! Just saw you as I "refreshed" before I "entered" this...You & J2t have sharp eyes to see. My talent is not in being wary enough...it's probably somewhere along the lines of being foolishly optimistic...foolish may be the primary descriptive term... You should hear what my folks said about some of my "Group" friends who kept showing up years later on their doorstep...to be fed... Funny, they kept feeding them...thus breaking one of their own country rules about strays...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

Hatter! at one time my Mom had 21 cats outside...this problem was solved one weekend by a concentrated effort of giving every single one of them away. Except the oldest Momma Cat (strangely enough a gray feline from Lexington, who'd been a kitten raised on spagetti at what possibly became the MCM House...) Smart Cat, she terrorized the Dogs...seriously kept them in line.

mcmstaff78

09-23-2006, 03:39 AM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Simply stated, I don't understand how someone can be as utterly stupid as he is and yet supposedly be a lawschool graduate who has passed the bar exam. I know that sounds harsh, but I don't know how to express it in a nicer way. There's something off about him. Every other person who has posted on this board has made sense to me (and that includes the Mar/EN defenders as well as that crazy woman who claimed she was Jane Leade reincarnated), but JB does not make sense to me. I simply do not understand how he can be what he claims to be.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

This is as interesting observation as it has sometimes struck me that Jonathan is, at times, deliberately obtuse. Also, his inability to make a coherent, cogent, logical argument makes me wonder about his schooling. I googled him awhile back and there certainly is a Jonathan Krems at an OK Law School (well, there was). But if his arguments here are an example of what his briefs will be like, well...

ginger1

09-23-2006, 03:50 AM

21 cat !!! I am already having problem with one black cat belonging to my neighbor. See, my next door neighbor a young woman living with two young men. She is so lazy of cleaning the cat litter, and what she does is she let her cat out every single day. And I have vegetable boxes , she would be burying her poop in my vegetable boxes size of 3X3 feet. I have six of them in the backyard.

There is poop in one of them EVERY SINGLE DAY ! You should see me putting the seeds in those boxes, I just threw them in, and water it. I do not want to touch that soil ! If I get lucky and that cat does not dig it up and kill those seedlings.

I do not want to deal with the neighbor/ the owner , just chased the cat away thats all I can do.
But 21 cat ??? How did she ever manage to clean the poop ?

lablady2

09-23-2006, 03:59 AM

I choose not to respond to krems. Not because I dislike him but because it profits nothing. And, it occurs to me that perhaps I'm being played. And I really don't like being played.

For me, the most logical path is to ignore his posts because any response you give him is met with the same, unbending illogical rhetoric. Why bother?

wildwood_

09-23-2006, 04:19 AM

Hi Ginger! Sorry...OUTSIDE CATS....only the Momma Cat...was allowed inside the house...and she'd do like Hatter's cat & go to the door when she wanted to "go". The others, one or two of her offspring, along with whatever else had wandered up... did what cats apparently do and somehow well...that mental image of kids running around a large table comes to mind...which is why they had to GO! (Apparently, they had all gathered in one location long enough for a complete head count...large crowds attract attention.) And the "Momma" Cat was promptly taken to the vet & had a very quiet life except for terrorizing the dogs (one barking outside dog, one cowardly mostly inside dog) after that.... That cat was very very smart, once she watched my Mom smack the cowardly dog on the nose for nipping a kitten. The Momma Cat blinked, then did that aloof cat stroll and walked up to the dog and WHACK, WHACK...twice...on the nose...then flung her tail & walked off. The Dog NEVER looked even remotely cross at a kitten again...she did look very happy once the whole lot was cleared out...
My parents lived in the country and city folk would dump their "used" pets. My folks were always saying "don't feed" it...even once...or it will keep coming back... Hmmm, so true. That's how we got all our animals...and at various times every member of my family has been the guilty party that did the initial secret feeding...even my Dad was "caught" once...but after the cat escalation, they'd always manage to find a home quick for the females of the species... I think back now on the other human strays that my sister & brought home and wonder how my parents kept their patience... Then again, sometimes, I think they were being "entertained" by us... I just didn't know it at the time! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

coppertree

09-23-2006, 04:24 AM

Hi All
Catching up,umnn..
About our friend.. does Jon Krems know that he is posting here?, Or is he the foil for us to discuss things we know the answer to,ummmn. In college there was a famous story of a freshman that was made up and graduated with help, but never existed. Just a thought.

Ginger- try moth balls on the corners of your lovely gardens, they also make at Home depot, etc, something called "Away" a pet repellant. Good luck !!}}

ginger1

09-23-2006, 04:48 AM

Thanks Coppertree, i will try that. I wonder will that wash off if I water the plants ?

matt_hatter

09-23-2006, 05:27 AM

Just an observation. Factnet was a better place, more unified without the presence of someone who has no history here, disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Talk about bunny trails. The only way be rid of him is to quit responding, and that will be hard. This is not ignoring. This is simply realizing that he has nothing of substance worth responding to.

Defenders of Krems, I do not mean to offend, but this is a discussion board. When I read a post that reproves folks for simply responding/disagreeing to his continual babblings it does not "convict" me to change. Listing selective scriptures to make some kind of point has never been an effective way of changing my mind, as a whole other group of scriptures can be used to make the opposite point. Sorry defenders, I just don't agree with you, don't take it personal.

Simply put, Factnet did not have these problems until he, for reasons unknown, showed up. I cannot make any more posts to him, as it only feeds what he has now become, the center of the factnet universe. If we would all quit responding to him, it may quell his insatiable need to stir up strife among people who have a shared experience that he knows nothing of.

I do have a tendency towards bluntness at times, for that, I don't repent. Like J2, I don't understand his presence here.

j2theperson

09-23-2006, 05:37 AM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Lablady: I choose not to respond to krems. Not because I dislike him but because it profits nothing. And, it occurs to me that perhaps I'm being played. And I really don't like being played.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
In a way, I sort of hope it is just a prank because the idea that someone could be as utterly imbecilic as Krems appears to be and yet still graduate law school and pass the bar exam is too depressing for words.

Krems is an intellectual lightweight, and the emperor has no clothes.

lablady2

09-23-2006, 05:43 AM

matt: krems has managed to make himself the center of attention here. It's remarkable how many posts are either directed to him or about him. Could that be the point?

As I said, it profits nothing. The only way to stop it is to stop responding.

Listing scripture does nothing for me, either. We could all list volumes of scriptures and they would still be open to our personal interpretation.

This is a discussion board. I don't mean to offend anyone, but it's not a Christian (or Jewish or Muslim) discussion board. It's about cults and the experiences people have had within cults.

j2theperson

09-23-2006, 05:45 AM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Matt: Defenders of Krems, I do not mean to offend, but this is a discussion board. When I read a post that reproves folks for simply responding/disagreeing to his continual babblings it does not "convict" me to change. Listing selective scriptures to make some kind of point has never been an effective way of changing my mind, as a whole other group of scriptures can be used to make the opposite point. Sorry defenders, I just don't agree with you, don't take it personal.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I agree. I think that everyone here has shown a great deal of patience toward him in the face of his complete and persistent irrationality and stupidity. I also don't agree with his defenders claims that he has shown a lot of love and patience in the face of unwarranted personal attacks. He has written some very cruel and condescending posts--just do a search on his screenname and read some of his old posts. He is not an innocent victim. He provokes peoples and I do not believe that he posts here in the spirit of love.

matt_hatter

09-23-2006, 05:47 AM

Could that be the point?

That is the point! And maybe tonight, we can put that point to bed.

lablady2

09-23-2006, 05:57 AM

J2 said: In a way, I sort of hope it is just a prank because the idea that someone could be as utterly imbecilic as Krems appears to be and yet still graduate law school and pass the bar exam is too depressing for words.

J2: I'm a glass-half-full person. Gives me hope that I can still be a brain surgeon, astronaut or president of the United States.

lablady2

09-23-2006, 06:03 AM

Gee, Matt, I just re-read your post. Seems like I missed the fourth paragraph, then proceeded to basically restate what you said. My bad.

Well, I'll sign my name to the petition. I'll take my coffee without krem, thank you.

40days40years

09-23-2006, 06:51 AM

Well I don't know guys, Krems seems harmless enough and half the time I agree with him except when he refuses to acknowledge the excesses of the WOF movement which is used to serve mens special interests instead of Gods it seems.

Yeah I think this place is a Christian board at least in this little intersection of Factnet. Sorry but Jesus is the common theme. As far as cult or messed up church? That is an ongoing debate, just my 2 cents.

lablady2

09-23-2006, 11:03 AM

Factnet Website: "We are to destructive cults, fundamentalism, mind control, and mental coercion/torture what Amnesty International is to physical torture"

The heading at the top of this page is: Factnet message board - Religious cults and Sects.

The stated purpose and theme of Factnet is to expose cults and nothing else.

40days40years

09-23-2006, 11:23 AM

I am watching right now The Last Samurai I am sorry but this is buffalo pucks. If I can't make a stand for Jesus Christ here then where can I ?

(Message edited by 40days40years on September 23, 2006)

lablady2

09-23-2006, 11:36 AM

You can make a stand for Christ anywhere you want. That's not the point.

We were discussing the purpose and theme of Factnet, not the purpose or theme of those who post on Factnet.

matt_hatter

09-23-2006, 01:44 PM

40: Many things happen on factnet. Some want it to be a certain way. I have seen the sublte and not so subtle posts of folks thumbing their noses at the silliness that some of us get into. No matter to me. It is a place to meet and greet for the most part. However, it is also a place that has helped me develop a deeper relationship with Christ. Agree or not, that is the emphasis of my blog. It is very personal ramblings, but also has helped me make a stand--many in my office read and come and tell me how it has brought them closer to God. Funny thing, it wasn't my purpose, initially, it just helped ME.

Those are my "themes" for factnet, however the purpose is a discussion board. If stuff is thrown out there that I consider cultish, and WoF is, just go look at some of those videos, the poster is gonna get challenged. I am a little weary of some telling us to "play nice". WOF is not nice, it has nothing to do with the poster. My best advice, however is to NOT to respond, it is a horse that has been beat to death and down to the ribcage. And I continue....one quick note: because you and I, or anyone else for that matter, disagree, it has nothing to do with whether we can be "cyber-friends". It just means we may disagree. I don't want to be around folks just like me. What a boring existence that would be.

John, this discussion may continue here, and the thread is getting long, how about a new bunny thread for ephipanies and inspiration and general nonsense?

mcmstaff78

09-23-2006, 02:11 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Mattie: Simply put, Factnet did not have these problems until he, for reasons unknown, showed up. I cannot make any more posts to him, as it only feeds what he has now become, the center of the factnet universe. If we would all quit responding to him, it may quell his insatiable need to stir up strife among people who have a shared experience that he knows nothing of.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
You are undoubtedly right. I have tended to get "sucked in" with him when I have responded to someone else regarding WoF and he then responds to me with something I consider pretty "off the wall". Part of me is always concerned that silence is indicative of either capitulation to the logical weight of an argument or tacit agreement. I know this is an emotional response, but there you have it.

To me, WoF is at best heretical and, in it's more loathesome manifestations, cultic (espousing pastoral rule (with the emphasis on "rule"), the whole "touch not mine annointed" thing, shepherdship, etc.). It equates material prosperity with the blessings of God and places blame upon victims rather than victimizers.

That said, if I have offended anyone with my posts to Jonathan I beg your forgiveness. I have had no animosity in my heart toward him, I simply find what he stands for on this forum "anathema". My writing style may thus sometimes be terse or even intemperate. Please forgive me.}

(Message edited by mcmstaff78 on September 23, 2006)

(Message edited by mcmstaff78 on September 23, 2006)

matt_hatter

09-23-2006, 02:48 PM

"My writing style may thus sometimes be terse or even intemperate. Please forgive me.}"

I personally have no problems with terse or intemperate. For folks to be offendeed at your posts, ones that are well thought out and articulated, in my opinion, indicates that the offendee may need to lighten up. I cannot imagine anyone being offended.

And there is a real dichotomy in my own thought process here. One, I have seen some of the most insensitive thoughts come from HIM, (remember the disabled children theme he spouted on about?) and needs to be confronted. On the other hand, seeing his name just exhausts me. And yet I continue...LOL, I sound like Paul in Romans Chap 7....

flo1151

09-23-2006, 03:00 PM

Matt,
I have come to the point in my life where I don't think I have to fix everyone or to get my point across in some forceful way. I really don't care how my posts are accepted or rejected. They are just the facts the way I see them. I may be right or wrong but they are my thoughts. If someone wants to try to straighten me out go ahead and try. My wife has tried for 31 years without much success. Matt, I always enjoy your posts because they usually agree with what I believe. However, if you did say something off the wall I might not feel the urge to try and straighten you out. My plumbline was taken out of my hand a while back.

With 6 kids and 2 grandkids I believe the plumb bob was sold at a garage sale.

I believe krems is a waste of my time. just a thought from an old veteran of the wof camp.

flo

matt_hatter

09-23-2006, 03:14 PM

Thanks flo, and your bio on the EN blog thread has been very insightful. We were long gone by that time.

BTW, I have studied long and hard over the pic you sent. A 3-in a day would get me in trouble with the game warden. I have decided I would put my scope on the confused one. LOL!!!

ginger1

09-23-2006, 03:19 PM

Matt, I do understand Krem, He , unfortunately has a little bit of like quality in my family genes. LOL !

Krem does not like to be proven wrong. And yes, the best thing is not to respond back. Just let him think he is right.

I do remember for years, MA kept telling us Vitamin K. I kept telling Ma that it does not exist. Its futile. I just let her imagine that Vitamin K exist by not saying anything. ANd by the way, she still think that there is Vitamin K. a new vitamin that was discovered , 20 years ago.

j2theperson

09-23-2006, 03:43 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Ginger: I do remember for years, MA kept telling us Vitamin K. I kept telling Ma that it does not exist. Its futile. I just let her imagine that Vitamin K exist by not saying anything. ANd by the way, she still think that there is Vitamin K. a new vitamin that was discovered , 20 years ago.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
But there is such a thing as Vitamin K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K). It was discovered in the late 1920s.

ginger1

09-23-2006, 04:13 PM

I am sorry, it 's not Vitamin K LOL ! Its Vitamin F.

Gosh its been a long time since I argued with her LOL !

ginger1

09-23-2006, 04:16 PM

Check if there is such thing as vitamin F. Geez, she could be right.

j2theperson

09-23-2006, 04:23 PM

Yes, there is such a thing as Vitamin F (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_F), but, according to the article, those nutrients are actually better classified with the fats than with vitamins.

Wow. It looks like, for once, your mom wasn't completely crazy. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

lablady2

09-23-2006, 04:45 PM

Just a fun fact: In nursing school and in a nutrition class I took, over the counter vitamins were referred to as expensive urine.

40days40years

09-23-2006, 05:43 PM

Well Mad Hatter (how does it feel to not even choose your own name? Tikie chose it) - Please read no hostility into this read I have gotten in trouble with the written word before. I agree on being tired of playing nice, golly gee I did not mean to offend but there really is a booger on the nose, sorry http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif - In a generic way I agree with a lot of WOF stuff but the problem is that sometimes SH#$&!* happens and there is nothing you can do about it. Krems does not seem to see it yet but one day he will.

matt_hatter

09-23-2006, 05:50 PM

40---no offense taken! That is my point! This is a discussion baord. We are big boys and girls. I don't and I have never detected that you wear your feelings on your sleeves. Opinions make the world go round!!

That new Kleenex with the lotion in it is good. With a snoze like mine, Allie gets the extra large box. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

40days40years

09-23-2006, 06:12 PM

You know Mattie about humming birds guarding the feeders? It must be about turf I think they let their girlfriends/wives fly in and get a drink. It is like EN on a small scale all across the nation in every yard with a feeder. I heard most of the birds are named Rice and Phil.

Last night one large humming bird at dusk was flying around the porch light and trying to fly through the kitchen window. I had to turn off all the lights to get him to go away I wonder if the sugar water fermented or something? I call that one Leo.

Since this is a bunny trail does anyone watch that show on friday nights called Ghost Whisperer? I really like that show, cute girl, NOLR theology, it is pretty cool.

40days40years

09-23-2006, 06:57 PM

You know about that show called Ghost Whisperer? This girl sees ghosts and all sorts of things and everyone else around her is clueless. Watch this show if you get the chance, it is like watching some of the Maranatha/EN prophetesses, now granted the girl is to nice for our group but still the way she thinks things out and pieces stuff together? I know this sounds crazy but the show is kind of like some of the prophetesses. Lord forgive me but you will see what I mean after a few episodes.-- Food for thought when watching television.

matt_hatter

09-23-2006, 07:05 PM

My experience, this time of year, the birds start to cooperate, as they are getting close to the long journey south. Magically dissapear from Montgomery, AL, about Oct 20, like clockwork.

Allie watches that show, I think. She digs these weird type shows, Highlander, Charmed, etc. But she also reads those cheezy romance novels. I told her that I look like that dude on the cover of that paperback, what's the problem? Her words finally came..."let me catch my breath and continue...hahahahahahahaha!"

40days40years

09-23-2006, 07:15 PM

Matt in Ca we have hummingbirds year around. Yeah Highlander was a good show. Hey you should bring up what I said to Allie about the mind set of this girl in Ghost Whisperer it is like dejavu Maranatha kind of if you think about it. Ofcourse I am like one of the clueless people in that show. Yeah there is a demon monkey in the tree whatever, visions of principalities hovering above I never get to see any of this stuff.

matt_hatter

09-23-2006, 08:33 PM

Speaking of demon monkey in a tree, take a look at this:
http://entertainmentfans.com/videos/16.php

My peeps, Monday - Friday

ginger1

09-23-2006, 08:37 PM

J2 , For once she is not crazy alright !! LOL !

matt_hatter

09-23-2006, 09:12 PM

Hey Ginger, you were smart to ignore her. Even though she was right, if you would have argued with her, she might have gotten that bamboo stick after you!LOL!

forword

09-23-2006, 11:24 PM

J2:Is it possible that he has mental or emotional problems? (referring to Krems)

Forword: Well, then all the more reason for kindness and patience, right?

jbkrems

09-23-2006, 11:31 PM

Hello folks:

I've been looking at this thread, lately, and learning some very interesting things about y'all, and your thoughts towards me.

J2: No, I do not suffer from mental or emotional problems. I don't think that is reflected at all from anything I do here, or elsewhere (referring to my web presence, and website that youv'e seen).

lablady2

09-23-2006, 11:35 PM

Hippity hop.

j2theperson

09-23-2006, 11:48 PM

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J2:Is it possible that he has mental or emotional problems? (referring to Krems)

Forword: Well, then all the more reason for kindness and patience, right?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I suppose that depends on how you envision the kindness and patience in question playing out. If (note; I use the word "if") Krems has some sort of psychological issue, that ought to affect the way people interact with him. If he has a psychological problem it would be irrational for us to pretend that he was healthy. Personally, I think that if emotional or mental problems are the root of his inability to communicate in a logical manner the best thing would probably be to just ignore him--the same way you ignore a crazy homeless man on the street--because giving him attention does not help him and might actually cause harm. If he has emotional or mental problems, he needs to get help in the real world--there's nothing faceless people on the internet can do for him. Maybe you personally could help him (in which case, why not talk to him via email?), but a majority of people do not know how to respond to a lunatic or his ravings. I think that simply ignoring him would not only be a form of kindness and patience, but would also be the least damaging action we posters on this internet forum could take.

I also think this problem in some ways is moot. I think that we have shown him a great deal of patience and kindness and have been consistently polite to him in the face of his persistent irrationality and despite the fact that he continues to post here eventhough he has no connection to Every Nation or any of its antecedents.

ginger1

09-23-2006, 11:49 PM

Matt, oh God yes. Thats her answer to everything, a bamboo stick or a slap on the face.

I do remember one time, I was I think 18, newly born again. Don't know anything about spiritual warfare. My Ma is extremely religious, I mean religious crazy, she is very much into buddhism.
She always drag us to some Asian temple or faith healer or some withces up the mountain to get healed of something.
Anyway, there is one time she drag me to one place, the chinese people worship this new goddess. A woman with lots of hands.
The people there explained this goddess can bless you financially and give you whatever you want. As long as you worship her but if you ever double cross her, turn your back on her, she WILL KILL YOU AND YOUR FAMILY . (Smile). Ma said OK no problem.

And here my thoughts were "she is nuts ! she is nuts ! she is nuts ! she is nuts ! she is nuts ! she is nuts !. ..." I was darned scared and bewildered !!! I am going to die ! I am going to die !Knowing my Ma she never kept her word ~! I am going to die ! she is nuts !!!....

Anyway, just recently I was watching the Sean Connery, the League of honarable gentlemen. Captain Nemo prays to Kali, the goddess of death. Thats the one she is worshipping .

j2theperson

09-23-2006, 11:54 PM

I just want to make clear...I do not necessarily think Krems has emotional or mental problems. I threw that out as one of several possible reasons I could think of that might explain his mental inconsistencies.

matt_hatter

09-24-2006, 12:03 AM

Ginger, I have said it before and will say it again. God's umeasurable gift of GRACE has been all over your life!

dust

09-24-2006, 12:39 AM

I don't defend Krems. I merely defend anyone under personal attack. Factnet has asked us to consider some rules for debate....to keep a check on hostility, but in particular one thing: ATTACKING THE PERSON, instead of debating the content! It has a name and it's called ad hominem.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin, literally "argument against the person") involves replying to an argument or assertion by attacking the person presenting the argument or assertion rather than the argument itself. It is a logical fallacy.

Krems has been called more names SINCE YESTERDAY.
Here are some of the names: Stupid, imbecilic, complete and persistent irrationality and stupidity, an intellectual lightweight, obscenely obtuse, possible that he has mental or emotional problems?

This is from Christians who were once abused themselves!

And, I'm trying to understand this.

j2theperson

09-24-2006, 01:19 AM

Dust, as I said earlier...
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

I don't understand him. It's not a matter of hating him or despising him or not loving him. I just don't understand him.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
and...
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Simply stated, I don't understand how someone can be as utterly stupid as he is and yet supposedly be a lawschool graduate who has passed the bar exam. I know that sounds harsh, but I don't know how to express it in a nicer way.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I am not calling him stupid for the sake of belittling him. I am stating that quite literally, he is stupid, he is imbecilic, he is an intellectual lightweight. You are asking us, for the sake of Christian charity, to ignore the fact that it is impossible to carry on a normal, cogent, logical discussion/debate with Krems. I am unwilling to ignore reality in the name of Christianity.

The suggestion that he might have a mental or emotional problem was only one of several possible explainations I could think of that might explain Krems behavior...other suggestions included that he was pranking us or that he was maskerading with the intention of writing a book or article.

His inability to reason is not something that only I see, nor is it a problem I have created. It was something that several people noticed right when he first started posting. In fact, it prompted one of the posters to start an entire thread about Aristotelian logic. His flagrant lack of reasoning skills also made people start wondering right away if he was a beard.

Dust, you are defending Krems and would like to see some of the other posters treat him with more patience and kindness. But, I read his posts and I see such a disparity between his demonstrated reasoning skills and his claims to be a lawschool graduate that I seriously question if Krems is what he claims to be.

This is an internet forum--not real life. Before I show the sort of patience and kindness to Krems that you desire me to, I need to be certain that the person posting under the name jbkrems is, in fact, a real person, is who he says he is, and is not a troll or a beard or some crazy person who had found a discussion board that tolerates him.

If this were the real world where I could see Krems and physically interact with him, I would respond to him in an entirely different way. But, this is the internet, and I cannot see him. I think the doubts and questions that I have are reasonable, and I get the impression that they are similar to the doubts and questions other posters here have. Because Krems is such an active poster here, I think that we all deserve to have these questions about him answered.

coppertree

09-24-2006, 01:23 AM

Hi Dust,
I wonder, if some question his voracity, not unlike the verse about playing a dirge and then..}

lablady2

09-24-2006, 01:25 AM

For the record, I haven't called krems any of those names. But, I'm not a Christian either so I don't have a dog in that fight.

This is why I prefer to ignore krems. And, no, it is not a sin to ignore someone. In fact, I think it can be merciful.

dust

09-24-2006, 01:35 AM

Thanks copper, I understand exactly what you mean. I've wondered that also, but in the end, I can't actually describe how my wrestling with Krems and with God has set me free.

Lablady, I think you're fair. And I wasn't trying to leave you out; Jews take the forgiveness thing seriously! I'm not Jewish but I have Jewish family.

wisedove

09-24-2006, 01:42 AM

Can you not be jewish and Christian? That's perhaps for another thread, but I just don't get THAT either.

j2theperson

09-24-2006, 01:43 AM

Lablady, I was the one who called him all those names. I feel like his stupidity and complete lack of reasoning skills comprise the giant elephant in the middle of the room that everyone here has been ignoring. I can't pretend anymore than he is a logical or intelligent person--doing so is as crazy as pretending that the emperor is wearing clothes.

wisedove

09-24-2006, 01:45 AM

Sure, you can Ignore someone. That's fine. Do so quietly, not boastfully.

wisedove

09-24-2006, 01:52 AM

Also, many of you keep throwing the fact that this is not a Christian board, but a board to expose cults. Fine, but the majority of people that are posting here are from a Christian background in MSI/EN, so I would only assume that those persons are in fact Christian, therefore, would try to do things pleasing to the Lord, with Jesus in mind. I am not super spiritual, but I do strive to please God. I fail DAILY in my personal life, by not being the Proverbs 31 kind of wife or woman for that matter. It is something I strive to improve.

Like I said a few minutes ago on another thread, it's between God and each poster what's being said here and how others are being treated.

Dust, thanks for your definitions above in your second to last post.

lablady2

09-24-2006, 01:56 AM

First, I'm tired of discussing krems. So, I won't.

I'm 52. I'm an adult. This is a message board - not a church and you are not my pastor, my rabbi or my moral voice. If you don't like the way I'm doing something, please feel free to ignore me. Please.

J2: I have no problem with what you do. We are all adults here. If your comfortable with what you do, I think that's all that matters.

Officially, then, I'm not responding to krems. I am ignoring him. If that is boastful, so be it.

lablady2

09-24-2006, 02:01 AM

"Like I said a few minutes ago on another thread, it's between God and each poster what's being said here and how others are being treated."

Amen. From your mouth to God's ear.

j2theperson

09-24-2006, 02:03 AM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

WiseDove: Like I said a few minutes ago on another thread, it's between God and each poster what's being said here and how others are being treated.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I agree. In spite of all these doubts I had about Krems I treated him in what I believe was an appropriate manner. Dust then came and essentially lectured the other posters on the board about our treatment of Krems. She considered it appropriate to tell us that we weren't treating him in a Christian manner and ought to be more kind and patient with him. I consider it appropriate for me to point out my issues with and doubts about him (which explain why I have not treated him in the same manner I have treated everyone else here).