Rambling Old Fartisms or some such foolishness

[john_r_jones]

I sat in church yesterday morning and the Pastor spoke of the letter to Corinth having to do with love. Paul wrote, "If I speak with the tongues of men and angels and yet have not love I am as a sounding brass or a cymbal..." my paraphrase. Cliff went on to surmise that the tongues part wasn't a reference to glossolalia, the gift of speaking in tongues, but of simply being eloquent. Paul wrote in effect that If I am eloquent in making my point scripturally and in so doing eviscerate you its confusing.

Ever have a noise in the background distract you? Try talking on the phone and the TV's blaring, the kids are fighting, and the doorbell rings and all the dogs start barking? Try making sense of the phone conversation then, if you can still hear the words what's being said is hard to make out in the din. Now of course the teaching has been laid on us in the past about the temple bells and the pagan worship that existed in Paul's time and that if we don't love we're merely being Pagan, un-Christian and lousy examples of Jesus, which may all be true but miss the point. Our articulation of love by our action gives weight to our eloquence about God because they are one in the same. God loves more than He's given credit for by us because we don't really know He loves us.

Paul also wrote about this in his approbation of love, "Help carry one another's burdens; in that way you fulfill the law of Christ." Not in abstractions and impersonal ethics will spiritual formation come, As Brennan Manning writes in today's devotional but the truth that "one learns to love God by loving men."

"But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful." Luke 6:35-36

John

[mcmstaff78]

John_R - just to share something that I have on my wall that goes along with what you wrote:

"The Lord is meek and humble, and loves His creature. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is love for enemies and prayer for the whole world."

[wildwood_]

JohnR... I've been pondering your above posting since this morning and I keep hearing my Dad's voice quoting the scripture "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God." As, a little girl, I always wondered what an "Oracle of God" looked like...hmmm, this I still do not know. I do however most certainly know what an "Oracle of God" posts like...A Rabbit...with a "Hutch".

And having decided to actually look up "oracles" --Various translations even...proper Greek & Hebrew, etc...to my own understanding...an oracle of God refers to the Word of God in an active-sense, Living Scriptures. The Reality of Jesus in the mirror. Thank you for the "Reflection". http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif


<font face="times new roman,times,roman">1 Peter 4:8-11 (KJV)
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. Use hospitality one to another without grudging. As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

</font>

[john_r_jones]

Wildy,
The Oracle business is interesting at least to me. There is an ancient road that stretches for fifteen miles or so in the Middle East that goes nowhere except a temple.

The temple of Apollo is at the terminus of this still existent way lined in ancient times with shops that catered to pilgrims on their way to the temple. Food and offerings were sold there. When they finally arrived at the imposing structure they were given a time to have an audience with a temple priest for an Oracle. The priest would carry the request into the temple; this could take several months during which time the family waited around the temple until they were summoned to the massive doors that led to the interior of the temple. There again the priest would greet the family with their answer. That answer was determined by a woman seated in a basket suspended from a tripod above a smoldering fire of hallucinogenic substances housed in a small building in the courtyard. In this state they would beseech the god they were an Oracle of for an answer. The family after leaving an offering of some substance, left with their answer.

I think the reference to an Oracle in Scripture has to do with speaking out of relationship with the Father, not just quoting a legalistic opinion. I say legalistic because the Jewish practice of incorporating the law into everyday life was accomplished through the Talmud. The Talmud was a legal finding of Jewish law and custom where a rabbinical sect would take each case, or circumstance they could imagine in life and determine through discussion what the legal interpretation or interpolation of the law would be for that instance. The Babylonian Talmud which came from the post exilic rabbinical sect was very strict even more so that the Jerusalem Talmud. It was cold and far removed from any sense of God's interest in involvement in the daily human affairs of men. One comment about the book of Peter itself observes a leaner verse less self obsessed than either the Gospels or Acts. I believe we are individually called to commune with God and to evidence that experience in community.

John

(Message edited by john r. jones on September 26, 2006)

[wisedove]

or·a·cle

noun (plural or·a·cles)
1. source of wisdom
2. wise saying
3. shrine of ancient god
4. Greek or Roman deity
5. advice from Greek or Roman deity
6. God-given message
7. area of biblical Temple

plural noun or·a·cles
scripture

[wisedove]

oracle

or·a·cle [áwr&amp;#601;k'l]
noun (plural or·a·cles)
1. source of wisdom: somebody or something considered to be a source of knowledge, wisdom, or prophecy
2. wise saying: a wise or prophetic statement
3. shrine of ancient god: in ancient Greece and Rome, a shrine dedicated to a particular god where people went to consult a priest or priestess in times of trouble or uncertainty.
One of the most famous was the Delphic Oracle of Apollo.
4. Greek or Roman deity: an ancient Greek or Roman deity that a priest or priestess would consult for advice on behalf of troubled or uncertain people
5. advice from Greek or Roman deity: a piece of advice, often in the form of a puzzle or an enigmatic statement, handed down by an ancient Greek or Roman deity
6. God-given message: a message believed to come from God in response to a request, plea, or petition
7. bible area of biblical Temple: the most sacred area in either of the Temples mentioned in the Bible, often referred to as the Holy of Holies


or·a·cles, plural noun
bible scripture: the books of the Bible


[14th century. Via French < Latin oraculum < orare "speak" (see orate)]


Microsoft® Encarta® 2007. © 1993-2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

[mcmstaff78]

Might be best to go to the original language and not simply try to interpret this from a word the English translators picked. "Oracles" is "logion" in the Greek, which is the neuter form of the noun "logios", lit. one who speaks, or "orator".

Best not to read into this that Peter is speaking about some "special revelation", but rather simply that when you, a Christian, speak to another, remember who you are and that you should speak as if God were speaking through you - with love, grace and kindness (see the verses preceding this one) and not full of lust and lasciviousness.

[wisedove]

G3051

&amp;#955;&amp;#8057;&amp;#947;&amp;#953;&amp;#959;&amp;#957;

logion

Thayer Definition:

1) a brief utterance, a divine oracle (doubtless because oracles were generally brief)

1a) in the NT, the words or utterances of God

1b) of the contents of the Mosaic law

[mcmstaff78]

Yes, but in only a few places should one really read into it as being a extemperanous utterance of divine inspiration. Hebrews 5:11 states "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God [logion tou theou];" and probably would be better translated "God's word". In Romans 3:2, Paul answers his own question regarding what advantage it is to be a Jew by writing "Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God." Again, logia tou theou. Were divinely inspired extemporaneous utterances committed to them? Or was it the scriptures?

Again, I would suggest that "oracles of God" is an unfortunate translation, not the least because of modern pentecostal/charismatics reading their own peculiar practices into the term, and we should understand it as a reference to scriptures and speaking in a way that is befitting of a graced individual. After all, the Apostle Paul writes in Hebrews 1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"(1-2)
}

[wildwood_]

Well, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck...then maybe it is a duck or maybe it's a short-neck swan. I still marvel that it's "walking" on top of the water. And I would like to swim half as well...and I don't...lessons have even proved useless because I hate getting water in my face.

My own belief is that the Holy Spirit speaks through the Inspired Scriptures. I also believe that the Holy Spirit does move separately from the Scriptures; But, never contrary to the Word of God as given "from the Beginning"...and that the fruit of the Spirit (Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Goodness, Meekness, Temperance) demonstrates the "Reality" of the Risen Savior. No "Fruit"--not the right TREE.

If the "Oracle" upholds Christ...speaks the Word of God, and inspires my eyes to look up to Heaven...then maybe the "Oracle" has the Scriptures so written on his heart, that the Wisdom flows as naturally as a Leaf Growing on the Vine, or maybe the "Oracle" has the Scriptures so written on his heart, that the Wisdom flows as naturally as the Lord walking in the Garden with Adam &amp; Eve. Either way, I still marvel and am blessed by the Oracle's "relationship to the the Father" and encouraged in my own walk with the Son of God, Christ Jesus Our Lord.

I will now forever be thinking of "Oracles" as Bunny Rabbits ...especially large fluffy ones ...who actively seek to demonstrate the Love of God to each other and to a wide variety of "All Creatures Great &amp; Small"...

I believe that my Dad would think, I've worked this part of my "salvation" OK. His views on the "operation of the Holy Spirit" differed from mine--he thought more in terms of the Holy Spirit operating via the Word of God &amp; Prayer; but the unlimited possibilities of Prayer, communion with the Lord,opening our "eyes" to see the Love of God, and having the porch light on for lost strangers to see (and they did...frequently)...in retrospect, regardless of how I believe the Spirit "moves", still brings me to the same place: Sitting on my Dad's lap on the back porch counting fireflys...and leaving the Light On. Or taking a walk in the woods and seeing the daily Miracles of moss growing on a stone, a living vine on an dead tree, or a spring bubbling up in a most unlikely spot of solid rock. Mainly, I know that my Dad's character reflected the Word of God and my Dad's (both my parents actually) Love for the Lord was clearly evident in how he lived his life &amp; the Love &amp; Delight he took in the Fellowship of both friend &amp; stranger. Actually, I don't think Dad ever met a stranger...not for long...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif Hmmm, as I think about it...I guess I did know what an "Oracle of God" looked like...a whole lot like my Dad...strange, I never thought of him as wearing Rabbit Ears... And that's the Blessing of the Words that I read so many times from JohnR...

[john_r_jones]

Thanks wildy my "ears" are on an old tube set that gets three channels in fuzzy B&amp;W.

I remember once Maranatha contemplating wearing badges, some were ecstatic about it others appalled. I just ducked it was another one of those issues I didn't care much about.

As Christians though the thought came to me today we do wear badges. I was thinking of a reply to someone in an E-mail that asked me if I wanted prayer for doing something in Hollywood. My first response had been fairly matter-of-fact and I wondered if the humility I have in regard to doing such was evident? In effect was my humility showing? I can be proud of my humility.

I've also had one of those nights where I've sensed the presence of Father God and sort of half asleep prayed about stuff through the night as a consequence the phone line seems less staticy, and scratchy. So I've got the window for E-mail open and I hear this amused voice inside say, "You don't have to let them know how humble and Christian and virtuous you are, just be quiet you told them what you wanted-prayer for an old has been." It illustrated to me that the one who knows us best knows our badges He sees aren't for virtue, humility, or ardor.

I was having this thought roll around in my sleep last night. Peter was told by Jesus Satan has asked permission to sift you as wheat, when you are restored minister to your brothers. No question for Jesus Peter would fail, but and this is significant, Jesus also knew he would return. Though some may know our weakest point, though we may compensate for our inadequacies, and bluff or BS. our way through, Jesus knows both our weakest point and our turning point.

The funny thing is Jesus doesn't need to draw attention to His work, His restoration and healing in our lives. He told His followers quite simply "I am the bread of life". He termed Himself in the most ordinary uncomplicated unadorned way as something that gets consumed and is sustaining but not ostentatious by any stretch. I think some day in eternity we will be the badges Jesus wears proudly, I think He’ll gather us a few at a time and say, "Hey Dad have you met these friends of mine yet?"

John

[speakword2004]

I get back to find that our "friend" is back. Our martyr of Apologia assures us that we need just forgive and move on in glib assurance that the silent and screw-eyed and patiently patronised will inherit everlasting conditional peace in some paradise of relegated fools. We need just kiss the Fake Forgiveness Father idol's ring. I hear a whip Justyn. No real love or passion.

Sir, iz that your Clackerminkey?

Do you really want to hurt me- Do you really want to make me cry? - Boy George, Culture Club.

[ginger1]

Speak , I have always love your sarcasm . http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[speakword2004]

Sarcasm? What sarcasm?

Anyway, John apparently the Oracle at Delphi worked with happy gas that seeped through a fissure in rocks. Whew.Talk about religion being the opium . . .
There's a Violent Femmes song in my head now.
Where's my gas mask? Is that sulphur or an old fart-ism seeping up?
BTW my 5 year old let off one on the weekend that made his dad not only proud, but amazed that he intends taking my crown with some vigour.

[john_r_jones]

Well Speak if ever there was a place to speak of body functions I guess it's here.

Jonesy

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font> Hi Speakword,
Glad to see you here, and making a good noise, at that. I read that when the fissure moved on, they still tried to get a reading. Reminds me of so much.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lame.gif}}

[wildwood_]

Hey Speak! Missed you, my daughter's trying to figure out how to play Samorost...wanted to know how "Momma" found something interesting...how indeed??? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Scent...sulphur, an old fart-ism, perfume, a really good pot roast, skunks... interesting how the human nose can motivate the feet to move. The odorless gases like carbon dioxide just kill us in our sleep... My sister moved into a new house, the smoke detector went off. She didn't smell any smoke...she looked all around...then pushed all the buttons. Finally, she took it off the wall, beat it with a broom and called 911 because the smoke detector was stomped into a hundred pieces &amp; still blaring in her ear (oh, she had a 3 month old infant--also blaring in her ear). The Firemen came, walked into the room--looked around, started LAUGHING...moved a piece of furniture &amp; shut off the Carbon Dioxide Monitor which had been triggered by her husband warming up the car in the garage with the door closed (cold Wisconsin winter)&amp; then leaving without realizing an alarm was going off. She was pretty sure the Firemen were laughing because they had to step over the broken smoke detector &amp; broom she'd been beating it with... The poor smoke detector sadly had no miraculous recovery. The Carbon Dioxide Detector felt no remorse. Her husband did...for several glaring years each time they replaced the batteries on the thing. She's embarassed about the story, but alive and naturally since it's her story it doesn't embarass me. I have an odd family, so I fit right in.

That's as close a story as I will come regarding personal gases...my postings' resemblance to such things...not withstanding... Bovine Threads &amp; this...where's the Bus??? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[flo1151]

I just read a couple interesting posts on another thread. I really thing all of us should read the sayings of justyn. He/she has a lot of good things to say to us. Not!

[wisedove]

where's the Bus??? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

my thoughts, too, wildy! (i can't type today-first, i typed wilfe, then wilde, and finally wildy)}

[speakword2004]

Ahh, Samorost! Quite an interesting little puzzler. I do not know what drove me to share this little gem. I think I was going through a wierd phase.

Coppertree, yes saw that too. The Ancient Greeks were running scams which the Nigerian mafia could learn from. Come to think of it the Nigerian mafia could learn a thing or two from the EN brotherhood.

[flo1151]

wise,

the bus is getting a lesson on how to forgive your enemies and think that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. The bus will resume when everyone believes the way krems and justyn believe. H_ll is today a warm 350 degrees.

[wildwood_]

Well, that's going to take some time, but I hear the poplar ice cap is melting; Of course, those icebergs breaking off should provide smaller cubes to fit into the styrofoam coolers on the bus...so maybe we can achieve freezing at least for the soda &amp; other beverages of choice.
I knew we should've insisted that the A/C be fixed...but I went with the armadillo-extended-purse feature given my last trip back to the port-o-potty was so bouncy. Sounds like the engines started up somewhere around here...

Hey JohnR...We are praying for you to do something in Hollywood! To keep a gaseous thought, a production with your depth of wisdom attached would be a welcome breath of fresh clean alfalfa scented air in a very smoggy place.... Of course my motivation is suspect, Army orders subject to change have us headed west within a few months...and one righteous man to be counted by the Lord would be reassuring. At the moment, I'm listening to a song "If You're Going Thru H_LL, Keep on going...You might get out before the devil even knows you're there..." Perhaps, to do work with Hollywood, doesn't mean having to turn your car around &amp; drive back... http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif I'm sure the Blue Bus will be ready for a road trip...

Greetings...if I have time I see a gathering on anther trail...Dove, Flo &amp; Speak (glad you were in that interesting mood)...although I still cannot figure the game out. My Daughter doesn't care...she likes the Dog &amp; some other critters that appear.

[john_r_jones]

Thanks we're rumaging around in Tinsel Town and making a bit of progress.

Jonesy

[matt_hatter]

JRJ, enjoyed the heck outta the phone call!! I've gone from TV news addict to bookworm. Love it. Got another book recommendation yesterday from another friend. My trifocals are working overtime.

[john_r_jones]

Ahh books,
what a priveledge to share great books with friends. One of the reasons I like Don Imus, his satire aside is that he is a reader and asks intelligent questions of his guests.

John

[matt_hatter]

You know, I could see you and Imus sharing a cup of coffee. I too am a big fan, he is an ornery cuss, but his command of world events, etc. is amazing. Hey, I hope to be back on line Sunday night. Until then!

Matt

[john_r_jones]

Diatribes on the playground of life put us in mind of something on the order of the insecure child who needs to be the center of attention. Sort of a dime store Boswell who's carriage was shuttered and strode about the piazza at night on his rather sparse grand tour. I hope your masters are well pleased, now run along before you stub your toe.

Jonesy

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>Jonsey,
He said that he did not read things here. Last time he asked for money. Now he wants people.}

[john_r_jones]

Spiritual Formation, a phrase, a concept that sounds foreign to me from my past experience. We didn't understand this formation business, we were busy, we had an objective, some still do. I heard a pastor today use a rather indelicate metaphor for this formation-a hambone. Dogs are some of the most theologically astute creatures on God's earth, unlike us. If you gave your pooch a ham bone he wouldn't just sniff at it, lick it a time or two and lay there and puzzle over how it got there, he grab it and chew it. Hours would be spent gnawing, chewing wrestling with that bone. Maybe after days or hours that bone would have been consumed but he worked for it, and enjoyed that work of getting that bone gnawed on.

We live in a world today that shouts consumerism, again this wise fellow in the pulpit articulated something I've believed for a long time just not able to succinctly phrase it until now. He said, "What you listen to determines what you hear." The people of Jesus' day had a hard time hearing the words of Jesus-we still do. We take the scriptures and choose how we want to hear them or in our culture we merely allow someone else to offer us a predigested summary of their opinion of what Jesus said. His kingdom was upside-down, backwards, and inside-out, a kingdom not of raw power but of powerful love. It wasn't a system but a relationship, it wasn't of scheme or a plan it was a way of life. I shudder when people are told God has a wonderful plan for their life-He most certainly does not! God has a wonderful life in which there is no plan save knowing Him. Many are the tourist in this ideology, others are travel agents, few are residents of a kingdom that doesn't gauge success by prestige, numbers, square footages and bank balances. As I've gone along these last few years in particular I care less and less about some political diatribe, some grandee peddling a magic potion, a formulaic route to wealth and power. I haven't the energy for that I find the quiet of a breeze in a still dark morning with a hint of God's presence, an idea, a thought, a morsel of truth to talk over with the Father through prayer and reading and meditating. I'm thankful in a way for a sermon I heard recently that didn't ring true, sounded right but wasn't, it gave me the opportunity to wrestle with what was said and bother God with those words and ideas and what they mean. To say to him, "Is this true? Father, is this how you operate, do business, run your kingdom?"

Finally, in a world of violence both natural and man made I ask myself, "What do I listen to and what do I hear?" I bought an expensive High Definition television a couple of years ago, the kids and their friends watched it all hours of the day and especially night. I'd wake at 3AM as someone was blowing up the living room-again. I have a nice sound system in the car and yesterday my wife asked what radio station I liked to listen to, I shrugged and said I don't usually listen to the radio. One of my favorite features on the tele is the off button. I've developed a taste for listening in the quiet. I remember several years ago when I'd read of Brennan Manning’s seven day or more silent retreats where all but a forty-five minute session with a mentor of some sort were spent in silence. I ain't there yet the prospect of that much quiet still unnerves me but the time to think, to pray, to read and most importantly to wrestle with God over the issues of life are what has become more desirable for me. Last I want to say that I don’t believe ascetics is the key to this listening, a dog loves his bone.

John

[mdillon]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

jrj-I shudder when people are told God has a wonderful plan for their life-He most certainly does not! God has a wonderful life in which there is no plan save knowing Him.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

it has been years since i have darkened a steeplehouse door but i can gather up oh, say five or six years worth of sermon-getting and still would not come close to matching the Truth found in your post Jonesy.

my gracious Lord has returned me to the woods i walked as a boy and occasionally reminds me of the days when He began to cure my penchant for earthquakes and fires and general rah-rah in trying to find Him.

not sure if you knew it or not but my thanks anyway for leaving a sizeable portion of meat on this bone before you tossed it.

dillyeaux

[flo1151]

I'm enjoying church today.

[flo1151]

First Old Fartism Church.

[matt_hatter]

"One of my favorite features on the tele is the off button. I've developed a taste for listening in the quiet."
---JRJ

Hi friends, my computer guru has me fixed, (sounds like I have been nuetered--no commments)
and ready to burn up the factnet airwaves.

I, too, have found myself finding ways to reduce the noise around me. As I have written about in my blog, the talk radio, the 24 hr news, all things of the past. I ocassionally tune it the news and find the same pattern of partisan politics at the very foundation of every story. Seems we have forgotten how to be political opponents and have become enemies.

I haven't missed it, and don't intend to go back. I have missed my brain, and it has been fun sanding, scrubbing, and washing the junk of the world off of it.

[40days40years]

What are you saying Mattie ?, pray and read your bible, 1 christian book, 1 RR, 1 aspirin, only 1 hour of Rush? - democrats are not enemies just opponents?

[john_r_jones]

Thanks for the fellowship and kinds words and wouldn't that make an interesting church markee? Well I've written and deleted about three or four things here this morning so I'll just sort of ease over here and sit a spell.

John

[matt_hatter]

Our enemies fly commercial airliners into our buildings. Democrats / Republicans SHOULD act like Americans with opposing political views. That is all the political bait I am going to take, as I do not want the bunny trail to be smeared with partisan politics.



(Message edited by matt hatter on October 02, 2006)

[wisedove]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

brain, and it has been fun sanding, scrubbing, and washing the junk of the world off of it.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
brings a whole new meaning to the term "brainstorming."

[philiprosenthal]

Guys. With all due respect, could I ask please we try avoid language e.g. in the header of this thread that is potentially offensive since that will make people less likely to listen to the serious issues we are raising on this board. I hope this doesn't cause any offence.

[lablady2]

Since this is under the "General Chat" heading, I don't think any serious issues will be compromised.

As an adult, I can pretty much pick and choose information I do or don't want, and I think most others are the same. If they don't find what they are looking for here, they will likely move on to the more serious content. If the title of this thread discourages them, they probably weren't too interested in the first place.

By the way, there's some pretty potentially offensive content in the "serious" threads, and I'm not talking about off-color or humerous stuff. Just my opinion.

[john_r_jones]

Hello

[matt_hatter]

I guess the "Male Bovine Ruminance" flew right over his head.

When I read Deut. 29:29, "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us..." it would indicate to me that there are certain things that the Lord ain't sharing with us.

I find it much more offensive to read the threads with the same list of characters who seem to be right up there with the Shell Answer Man, got the answer to everything and the world by the tail.

I have figured one thing out. The tail ain't wagging the dog. God is in control.

[matt_hatter]

Lablady, you and I have big mouths. Oh well.

[matt_hatter]

Lablady, you and I have big mouths. Oh well.

[matt_hatter]

What the heck, I might as well go for 3 in a row...called Miltie this morning. He is having to do something he is not used to, work. Is busy unloading logs from a flatbed and contructing his model home. Told everyone hello and to send Ben Gay to help with the manual labor.

[john_r_jones]

I have to say I chuckle when I see that thread title on the screen, and no I'm not offended-amused definately.

John

P.S. Oh forget it I'm in too good a mood to do pfffuns. Whew! I don't know which is worse the Ben Gay smell or that.

[40days40years]

Mattie are you sure you don't want to address demonrats and democraps? Tis the season you know.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/angry.gif This is as close as I could get to a devil icon. Factnet does kind of slack off when it comes to icons or whatever their called.

[matt_hatter]

Some of my best friends at work lean democrat. They are neither demons nor bomb throwers. Just friends I eat lunch with every day. I have addressed it. Thank you.

[40days40years]

O.K fair enough but the dems seem to be playing awfully dirty lately. Obviously these Foley instant messages were known by dem operatives, why did they not turn them into the authorities earlier? Allright time to drop the politics but you brought it up and I love politics.

[matt_hatter]

I will make one more comment, regardless of what the dems knew, the dirtiness of this story is that a grown man, elected to Congress, is apparently a sexual predator and pervert. The blame lays squarely at his feet, not some Machiavellian plot to do the Republicans in.

So the fighting goes on and on. We have ceased to have opposing views, but are into bloodsport. The blood, however, appears to be all over Foley's hands this time. I seem to have lost my taste for it.

There is a trap that many talk radio hosts preach that somehow Republicans are in "God's Party", and Democrats are full of Satan. I can't think of anything more satanic than a child predator. And that comes from a Rebublican.

[mcmstaff78]

Well, let's be clear to differentiate between the Parties and those who are members of them. Just as you can have churches with evil doers (which does not make the church evil) you can (obviously) have political parties that have evil doers.

Both parties, being filled with sinful human beings, have more than enough evil doers to go around. The point would not be which has more, but what policies are advocated by the parties and do they tend toward good or toward evil? Do they promote godliness or do they promote ungodliness. My view is that neither has a corner on either one, but from my perspective one issue trumps them all: abortion.

And, as Edith Ann might say, that's the twuth!

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font> Hi Phil
I think that ship has sailed, so to speak.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif}

[ginger1]

These people should learn from Hugh Grant. After being caught solicitating a prostitute, Hugh Grant openly Admit that he did it. The scandal was only a few days, I did not think it lasted a week even. There was nothing more to dig into.

Its the COVER UP thats makes it more damnable from EN to the politics. That makes the news interesting.

[40days40years]

Yeah your right Mattie but when a republican is caught he is forced to lay down on the sword and he does it. Democrats stick around after they are caught, not just Clinton. Lookie here (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_100206/content/cutting_edge.guest.html).

Gary Studds messed around with a 17 year male page and turned his back literally when censured (http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/printer_8248.shtml). Did he step down?, did Clinton? I understand what your saying and I am very disapointed with the Bush family but the dems are uber hypocrites. A repub perv gets in big trouble and he is gone but for a dem it is an alternative lifestyle, we should not judge him and he is re-elected. Sorry for messing up the hutch, those pellets look mighty clean in comparison.

[freedom43]

I think the difference here is that the law is unlikely to really come down hard on Grant for soliciting a prostitute, but there seems to be a strong likelihood that Foley might be prosecuted. His life is essentially over, and I'm sure his attorneys are having him walk a fine line between mea culpa (going to rehab -- please!) and CYA (vaguely "apologizing" for letting people down but not really admitting guilt). The whole thing is sad/sick. Sad for the kids he preyed on and the impact it will have on them. Sad that it does appear that folks just turned and looked the other way. And, obviously sick to go after children.

I agree on the cover-up. It's all about who knew what when and what did they do about it. I think someone said they were warning pages about him as early as 2001. But, I imagine they warn them generally because of the history of the program -- what with Gerry Studs and Dan Crane way back in the early '80s.

There is nothing new under the sun.

[john_r_jones]

One power hungry pervert is as good as another, I don't care who's emblem they bear.

John

[john_r_jones]

For me the political process has become pornographic. We amuse ourselves with the spectator sport of political gladiators sticking it to each other a spectacle of the modern day coliseum of Rome. Meanwhile the world burns around us.

Old (insert thread title here)John or in the Latin,
Flatus Ancientus

P.S. British art historian and columnist turned reluctant television personality, Brian Sewell, has become my hero. When told on the last day of a rather arduous TV taping session that he'd been "hell" to work with he took it as a compliment. His shockingly frank rendering of eighteenth and ninteenth century European history is relayed in the "poshest" speaking voice of the English language. If the word "fart" offends you I'd keep the telley clicker safely unused on the coffee table.

[lablady2]

matt: I do have a big mouth. Following my MCM experience, I traded in the mealy model for an upgrade.

I thought Phil was much more polite, though. At least it was something of a request rather than an order. However, trying to control this group of lovable mutts is going to be like trying to stop a case of kennel cough. Good luck!

[john_r_jones]

LL2,
more like herding cats.

John

[lablady2]

John, I am rofl. Herding cats, yes! We have two cats in the house for most of the day. My husband always says, "How can two cats seem like seventeen cats?"

Herding cats....hehehe

[matt_hatter]

Another good analogy:
Controlling this bunch of loveable mutts would be like trying to nail jello to the wall.
Just for you, the Home Improvement duo, JRJ and LL.

[wildwood_]

JRJ, LL, Hattr! Thank You...I'm now LAUGHING AT CAT...herding...Rabbits too... I truly needed the "witness" of the JOY of Your Fellowship! Good Medicine for my Soul to borrow words from a MadHatter...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I'd refreshed before posting my comment below and I plan to go find some critters to herd shortly...Our Dog always looks a bit humorous when being chased through the house; sadly, this is usually when NO ONE is actually chasing her that I can see....
_______________________________

The worlds brokeness displayed on television nightly--without the Hope of Christ that holds my heart....now that offends me, and makes my Soul cry. The title of the thread, reminds me of how the Lord uses the most absurd things (such as Humans) to stand in this world for His Glory. I was reminded yesterday by a corporate clerk that if I ever doubted God's humor to remember the Platypus...I was going for a more direct "I know He laughs...He made made me..." Turns out that Platypus &amp; Humans from an Angelic view must have looked quite similar: A Platypus has the bill of duck &amp; webbed feet; but lays eggs &amp; has poison like a snake; but its not a bird or reptile..it is a mammal. It's covered with fur &amp; the babies drink from spilled milk on the females back; It lives in the water and can swim like a fish (but it breathes through it's nose...ah duck bill). I don't know what's its political party affliation is; I don't care. The Platypus doesn't prey on its young; or use its young as bait or apparently do anything but try its best to protect the weakest.... There's a lot to be learned from a Platypus...

There's many things in this world that disturb me today, my husband's closest friend leaves in a few hours for a warmer climate than Texas, at home will wait his loving wife &amp; toddler...an unexpected gift from the Lord after over 15 years of waiting and this gift only weighed 3 lbs at birth; but now glows &amp; bounces with good health. If their only concerns were or had been or would be of just potentially offensive vocabulary choices. Although I do understand the concerns that good hearted folks might be shocked &amp; therefore discount the Truths posted as being reflective of "Carnal" minds. I'm just not feeling particularly tolerant of those good folks today (I try to be tomorrow)...those good folks need to take a look around this world... because there are such real problems ordinary people(those whose vocabularly or correct statement of faith might be lacking)...people they might not even notice in a Church or maybe not even be in a "Church"...But these "Ordinary" People present a Grace &amp; Hope &amp; Faith that speaks of a Risen Savior &amp; A Loving God in the middle of their life's madness...

I found the oddest bit of hope in an unexpected place from real people living in the middle of horror of the shootings at the Amish School. An EMS Worker said in the middle of all the things he dealt with yesterday--he heard another EMS worker say something along the lines of "I don't know how...but God is with Us here..." and that he knew it to be True. Then I read that the school teacher who escaped to call 911--said of the shooter--"I pity him". That would not be the thought of my heart on this day... She's only 20 years old...lives in what on most day's I'd be tempted to call a "Cult"....Not Today. Today, I'm standing in awe of her faith...and wishing that as Christians...we all would really be going about Our Father's Business... One by One...Upholding His Character &amp; His Love one towards another... Not just in words but in DEEDS.

[john_r_jones]

Phillip,
to address directly your post, I guess the possibility of your offending people with your posts has either escaped your notice or is purposful. Purposeful in that it has a chilling effect on others who might be disposed to seek out the thoughts of those who have been wounded in life by the "serious" people. My presciptive for you Phillip is one I practice wholeheartedly: If I see your name attached to a post I ignore it and move on, I suggest you do the same.

Gracias,

Jonesy

[matt_hatter]

Jonsey, wildy...

Hello

and thanky.

[flo1151]

philip,
you seem to think that this old bunch of guys and girls here gives a hoot. I speak for myself, I do not post here totry to change EN or the people in EN. These are my thoughts take it or leave it. I bet you were a good EN member. Tying to control everything it makes me sick. (hurl time) What business is it of yours to try to censure anyone here who to my belief is only trying to bring freedom from a cultlike church to real freedom. You need to get your hair tassled and your panties unwadded. I bet the people who read these posts have less of a problem with fartism than your judgments against fartisms. Maybe you need to let out a little gas. You may be too tight.

[matt_hatter]

WW:"If their only concerns were or had been or would be of just potentially offensive vocabulary choices."

Sadly, WW, it takes some a lot longer than others to come to this conclusion, as they live in a world so small and controlled that the real things in life get by passed. Your post saddened me, it brought back memories of my Dad heading off to the beautiful resort spot of Southeast Asia--twice--but it also reminded me what is important. Being concerned about slang words...not so much.

Labs, don't feed the troll over there...he's hungry for you...LOL

[matt_hatter]

flo I wish you would develop a backbone and quit beating around the bush. LOL!

We are a crusty, but loveable bunch, now ain't we?

[flo1151]

I know I'm crusty. Lovable, I don't know. Tired of bullfartisms, you betcha. BTW miltie needing Ben Gay, I didn't know Miltie rolled that way.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[matt_hatter]

If that doesn't get him out of the log-work, nothing will. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

[wildwood_]

Thank you Hattr for a heart that understand "sadness" and yet was able to turn a bit of my sorrow into Joy--because I remembered how your Mom &amp; Dad had raised you! Their first priority being to nuture their childrens' hearts: Your Dad's service taught of Pride &amp; Honor &amp; Srength. Your Mom put those words Pride, Honor, &amp; Strength to "active duty" the day that she thought your Father might have fallen and that perhaps she'd be raising her children all alone--In the middle of that most horrendous waiting--she made an active choice to stand in her Faith of a Living God Ruler of Heaven &amp; Earth and in deliberate wisdom went to her knees with you all in prayer to seek the shelter of those Loving Arms of Jesus--no matter what the next telegram held. It would find her &amp; you all there...

A lesson she taught you all that I plan to hold for myself when any form of life's bad news storms starts roaring towards my home; On my knees with my family in prayer...safely held in Jesus Loving Embrace.

Thank you again for sharing your story. Please tell your parents that others are still being taught by their example in Faith &amp; Duty. Ron's friend that's moving today, wears a yellow patch with a horses head on his sleeve; seems they are a proud command following in the footsteps of Giants. (Having seen his friend's boots...I do believe he will be able to match those giants step for step). http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[wildwood_]

And FLO! Thank you for Laughter! And I'm shocked, deeply shocked that you hadn't figured out about Miltie...gee, he wears a tu-tu or 3-3 and according to some has been known to do Sports activities in bare feet! It would just be impossible for him not to be acquainted at least with Ben Gay...NO EMAILS OR IMS WERE EVER EXCHANGED.


Miltie, if you're reading this--I'm sorry I've fallen in with a wonderful group of crusty but loveable troublemakers...sadly, I seem to fit in just fine. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif I think they're hiding the RR from me though... guess I'll have to over to the Longbranch...

[matt_hatter]

DANG you WW, you made this crusty troublemaker cry tonight. Your post...whew.

Then I read your next post...and laugh.

God dwells among us, eh?

[wildwood_]

AMEN! He does and best of All He isn't LEAVING!
And what are you doing up this late my fine Mad Hattr friend? You should be asleep dreaming about armadillos....http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

I was near tears today when I started that first long old post...and then you all had me laughing again. That's our Troops secret Weapon You Know--Laughter in the Ridiculous...Laughter at themselves... Amazing. Must really annoy the Islamic Terrorist at their lact of appropriate fearful respect...

[matt_hatter]

OK, I am going to bed...but had to comment on the yellow patch. I am going to spend the holidays going through my Dad's slides and I am going to find that huge wooden 1st Cav emblem placed on the side of that mountain in S Vietnam in 1965. You and the Sarge will get a kick out of it.

Thank you for all of your posts. You just add so much to the "front porch therapy", as we all are a little off kilter.

[wildwood_]

Better get Mr Dilly to work on the porch cause I think it's a little off kilter too...(wonder where Dovey, LL &amp; I put his power tools?) Yes, we'd like to see that, I've got a couple of "new" photos of the patch on the new BDUs only they call them something else now...speckled hen comes to mind but not the Army term...oh, I could go wake Sarge &amp; ask... "NO"...Crazy I am, Insanely Foolish...not tonight. I will foreward those photos to you before I become distracted &amp; start reading the board tomorrow... I'd do it now, but I'm peacefully seeking sleep...The Porches around here should have some pillows &amp; blankets... Oh, never mind...what's the term...dibs on the glidder-swing like GrandMa had....oh, looks like someone's there...Flo? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif OK, I'm going in then.... Nite!

Sleep well...

[matt_hatter]

"the new BDUs only they call them something else now...speckled hen comes to mind but not the Army term..."

Have the grunts come up with their own term for the competer camo? You know, like the famous dish "chipped beef on toast" AKA "SOS" or...ummm...(oh yeah! use the bunny trail dictionary)--cast on shingle.

[wisedove]

Hey, wildy and matt and flo and jrj and others,
Wildy,
I couldn't even read here yesterday, much less post, because I was too focused on the stupid news and the state of our nation with all of the crazies that are lurking out there...prayed for God to send His angels to guard EVERY school across America...(I think He has enough to do this...and still keep angels around each of us personally, too...) Then, today, I am playing catch up again. Your posts, wildwood, are touching..thanks for sharing...

In my Bible Study yesterday, we discussed the fact that we need to be praying for our president, (Bible commands this) and praying for each and every child across this country in all of the schools. I pray that Angels guard the doors of each school.

Interstingly enough, God is getting the focus and attention on the news media through these Amish. The same day of the shootings, they sent messages of forgiveness to the killer. They were more concerned of his family than there own. They are often a very misunderstood bunch, but this week, after seein how they are handling this terrible suffering, somehow I see Jesus hanging on the cross saying, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

I see Jesus in these Amish people. They are definitely walking the walk and talking the talk...

[john_r_jones]

Improper though it is to start a sentence with and...

And so it goes that if we'd spoken our minds years ago, well who knows here we are now so onward. I had a thought today on reforming things, do we reform them or do we offer an alternative.

Or do we just march on in life and if anyone finds something of value then partake as you will. I sometimes view reform as a case of showing the virtue of the reformers since they perform against the backdrop of their antagonist's sins. This unreality gives me two impressions, one of creating another culture which has the propensity to be cultic, and secondly that all evil resides in the opponents or in those who in some way hinder the cause. In so doing we're accused of tacitly abetting the evil of those being reformed.

I propose the freedom of being yourself, doing things for the sake of doing things, or not because they are there. The choices you make as a consequence has no more substance appended to them other than it's something you explored and experienced. You may have experienced it with others and so enjoyed the mutuality of that as well but it doesn't mushroom into a cause. Then we don't leverage our importance, we leave others with a choice to assimilate something of our lives or not.

As I view the Gospels I see that as Jesus' tack in ministry. Anyone who desires to follow me must take up their cross...acknowledge their weaknesses and cut the pretense, the sham, the appearances that flatter and just be yo'self. Frankly that's a tall order, the parable of the rich man entering heaven in relation to a camel going through the eye of a needle is this: the eye of a needle is a small opening in a city wall that an unladen camel can pass through. We similarly will enter the Kingdom unladen without the baggage of our virtue and accomplishments, just ussins ourselves.

Jonesy

[matt_hatter]

JRJ: "I sometimes view reform as a case of showing the virtue of the reformers since they perform against the backdrop of their antagonist's sins. This unreality gives me two impressions, one of creating another culture which has the propensity to be cultic, and secondly that all evil resides in the opponents or in those who in some way hinder the cause. In so doing we're accused of tacitly abetting the evil of those being reformed."

Hoozah, John. I am reminded of Joan of Arc at times with the reform minded. We know what happened to Joanie, and it wasn't breaking up with Chachie.

[wildwood_]

JohnR...I followed your posting with appropriate dignity &amp; respect &amp; as always with appreciation for your wisdom....then you said : "We similarly will enter the Kingdom unladen without the baggage of our virtue and accomplishments, just ussins ourselves."

And I thought, and thought a bit more...then my inner child said "OK, next time he should just say naked". Or to be grammatically incorrect...Nakked.

Viewing this as a Rabbit, rather than a Human; certainly makes the thought of leaving the "clothing" hanging on a tree branch before jumping into the swimming hole a less stressful process. I actually thought about this for a while before posting...(that's either a sad commentary on my current lack of judgment or a more positive one that believes my posts will actually be read with kindness &amp; not "judgment"...).

I kept returning to "In the beginning..." when the Lord fellowshipped with Adam &amp; Eve in the Garden--Nothing between them, no cotton cloth or labels...Paradise. I've read the story many times...the temptation, the Fall, the loss of Paradise &amp; God's Promise for restoration. Perhaps, this thought has been with me before (but tonight it seems new) and surely there are sermons somewhere on it... But, I always thought that Adam &amp; Eve had to "scrounge up" their own clothes...tonight I noticed that first wardrobe was provided by the Lord: Gen 3:21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. In the middle of His Judgment, God saw man's nakedness and clothed him...Mercy for us from the very first moment.... And now, His Love, returns us back to the Garden, to Him...naked again...in Fellowship with our Creator. We cannot buy our way back in...or do good deed our way back in...He's the only Way. And to the Lord, each Soul always stands "Naked" before Him... Recently, I heard some public figure say..."I lied to my God"...NO...God has always known the Truth... He's not confused about who we are...I think we get very confused about WHO HE IS...and that He's Still Waiting &amp; Watching...Thankfully still with Mercy &amp; Grace &amp; Patience...(something my family lacks when I get on the computer...hmmm....later folks).http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[matt_hatter]

WW, git it rite, it is nekkid.

[speakword2004]

Thanks John

Yes, many a time I have sat listening to the preacher blackmail people into working their way to a mansion in heaven. The idea that we will live in perpetual guilt and shame in heaven at the lack of our great works, social position and personal piety is sick and depraved. Those who build their own personal empires on earth will find that carving out their own niche in heaven is a pipe dream.

[speakword2004]

BTW

Considering low grumbling sounds, as per the headline for this thread, I thought you guys might like:

http://www.elephantvoices.org/

Here in Africa we ride elephants to work, but we do try and keep them away from our grass huts for obvious reasons. Just last year, I exchanged my Grade A Forest Pachyderm for a run of the mill Savannah model.

The other night I watched a news insert about an Elephant in a zoo in Korea that practises 10 Korean words in its room at night using its trunk as a modifying trumpet in its mouth.

[40days40years]

speak: Here in Africa we ride elephants to work, but we do try and keep them away from our grass huts for obvious reasons.

What is the worst that will happen? It will eat your roof?, poop on the house, knock a wall over, give you a gas attack ?

Asian elephants are more trainable and are easier to domesticate but can go crazy at times "hormone stuff". I saw a show where they work them all week moving logs and junk and one day a week they get a sabbath where they go out and party with their friends wandering out in the wilderness. They won't work on their day off and will have a fit it you try to make them.

[john_r_jones]

One of the men I went to church with here for a time had worked at the Baton Rouge zoo and told us elephants really do have a memory. Thye'd have to come-up with new tricks on a regular basis to sneak medicine into their food. Another friend here told me of watching an elephant at same said zoo flatulate. It's whole rear-end wiggled when it expelled gas. Now that's definately and "Old Fartism"

Himself

[john_r_jones]

The playbook for inept spin doctoring must be dogeared from overuse these days in the beltway. Noted to me at least is the shoot the messenger ploy. The vast left wing conspiracy lurks out there and who's criminally liable for secreting those IM's for an October surprise is the burning question. Sound familiar just read the tenor of Jutyn's forgiveness rhetoric and we've all been nicely painted with that same broad brush. All that's needed is someone to scowl at the camera and dress us all down with a Texas accent and tell us how the cow ate the cabbage-oh they've got one of them too? Some day kids the media will get a hold of the red meat of the scandals of the ministry that has ametuer hatchet men deployed to condemn dissent with religious BS and then I'd hang on cause it'll be some rough sleddin'. I'd worry more about "The Daily Show" than the fellows whose guns are pricier than their suits.

Jonesy

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font> Hi All,
HImself, Mr. Jones, Thank you for your posts. A delight, or a laugh. On you post that started with and... I wonder about A thesis and then B thesis, maybe a C the anithesis is what we are hoping for in our lives and others also. This would require being transparent and known before our God and others.}

[ulyankee]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Noted to me at least is the shoot the messenger ploy.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Guess the blame the victim ploy wasn't too politically advantageous this time around.

Not that we aren't familiar with that one as well.

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font> Hi Wildy
Thank you for your love and care for us here. In your post you mention that God made clothes fro His humans fall they fell. I saw that it required a blood sacrifice to cover their fallen state. There is a fresco by Masaccio, an early 1425 painter in Florence. It shows with what we would see as modern painting techiques,Adam and Eve being expulsed from the garden by an angel.This was the first time anguish, shame and pain was shown, in this context. It was not that God was cruel and angry at them, they had to leave because, as I understand it they would live forever in that fallen state. He would turn their mourning to joy. Although that joy could be transient at times, the plan to redeemed us all in their bodies, so to speak began.}

[john_r_jones]

Eric Blair wrote some prescient thoughts that were published in a book that is noted for the year it speaks of and in my mind is in itself eerily prophetic.

Under the Nome-de-plume George Orwell he gave us 1984, some of the prose gives us the reality that the quest for power is just that power. We can't disguise power in cleric's robes or in our case $1000.00 dollar suits, and not realize that it is a naked ambition. The other instances he gave such as torture and untruths are just that. Face the fact that we're inflicting suffering because we've developed a taste for it not the application of corporal justice for a good cause.

I frankly find the Orwellian aspects of these minions who devastate lives and then congratulate themselves chilling and real. My only reservation is that some seek to reform this machine and it makes me wonder. It seems to be as preposterous as if I were I to ask my physician how much strychnine could I get away with ingesting on a daily basis. Possibly even more outrageous would be my surprise at his response; to have him slap me across the face to knock some sense into my head or arrange a Psych evaluation.

To me a reformed EN would be tantamount to a methadone clinic, come in and get a dose of something not quite as toxic and hang onto your addiction and that lifestyle. I keep hearing this question posed, "Where did we go wrong?" My answer is when we began to lie to ourselves and seek to be something other than what we are. To be something we're not and to believe that that is God's will is the ultimate deception and a disqualifier in my book for anything of substance to offer the culture in which we live.

Fortunately for me I was booted out unceremoniously and had to go cold turkey. When invited to return a few months later to be prophesied back into the church I just walked away without much to-do I hadn't the taste for that tainted brew any longer. I'd been sent to a church where people that weren't good enough for Maranatha were urged to go. Maybe that's the clue why involve yourself in something that has an indoctrination course in order to believe your good enough to be a part of it by lying to yourself.

Finally to quote from Abraham Lincoln's inauguration address,

"We must disenthrall ourselves in order to save our nation"

It's time to get on the wagon on sobriety from religious addiction and free yourselves from the unreality of elitism.

Jonesy

[matt_hatter]

JRJ:"come in and get a dose of something not quite as toxic and hang onto your addiction and that lifestyle."

Interesting observation. You would think, after leaving Michigan and all the mess that M&amp;M had gone through, we would have started over in Montg. in 1983. So what did we do? We headed straight for the WoF Life Church, because a friend begged us to come, as I had real "leadership potential".

After the rock and roll session, Pastor Bandy Rooster, a cocky clone of Bobby, W. struts on the stage, and the crowd goes wild. Red flag #1. After listening to him browbeat the flock out of their money,(red flag #2) we leave and see my friend with an orange vest on heading for the parking lot. "You know, Mark, if you want that leadership to develop, you're gonna have to start in the parking lot like me." Red Flag #3.

Three flags too many. Never returned. At least we had learned enough not to give into that stinking pride that had done us in previously.

Post Script: The church went on a tremendous $$$ campaign to build a superstructure, complete with prayer tower, got halfway through and left a hideous steel framed skeleton standing for several years, much to the dismay of the neighbors. A Church of Christ came along and bought the metal, disassembled the erector set, and built a nice church with the remnant steel 20 miles up the road.

I wonder what explanation our resident Wofer would have for this escapade. The WoF church is now a warehouse-building type church, pastored by the man's daughter....and her husband. Oh, did I mention that they do have a billboard with their picture on it on the expressway? At least Daddy taught them well.

Excuse the cynicsm. Don't need the Religious Heroin, don't want the Methadone, just fill me with that addictive grace thing, Lord.

[matt_hatter]

My post did get me to thinking, however. John, it was cold turkey for you. It wasn't for me. In fact, placing myself back in 1983, reading hatter, dilly, jrj, etc, I might have been prone to rebuke the lot of you. Guess what I am saying is I have seen you politely ignore a lot of things said, rightly so, because I think you get this, it is still methadone treatment for some. But there are some, no doubt who are still mainlining, and you seem to know the difference.

Me? I shoot my mouth off too much and forget that God may be doing a work of grace in a believer who has recently left and He will follow it through. My transition was not istantaneous, and I should show grace to those going through it.

It was just so long ago, and now that I am a crusty sinner saved by grace, it is so easy to spot the hardstuff and the 'kinder, gentler version'. Not so when you first leave.

Ok, rambling....Matt

[john_r_jones]

Matt,
there is an Eastern bit of wisdom I heard and have found it applies aptly, "When the pupil is ready the master appears."

Some say they would have followed Jesus in the day, I think well I see Him doing things not by might or power as He did then and I find I'm confronted with the same question He asked the disciples after the night of walking on the water, "Will you leave me too?" or something to that effect. When I'm tempted to take matters into my own hands or be sanctimonious (I think I'm on the edge of that now) and not admitting my faults and weaknesses in honesty I get queasy. I have I guess a very real sense of accountability for my words and deeds to Him not to make it more difficult for others to follow Jesus just cause my ego needs a stoke or two. I also see how very much Jesus loves folks and though I'm not in possession of that kind of love out of respect and reverence for the Lord Jesus and His people He seeks to redeem I try to stay out of the way. I am also in touch with my capcity to err and be foolish and prideful.

John

[matt_hatter]

jrj: "I have I guess a very real sense of accountability for my words and deeds to Him not to make it more difficult for others to follow Jesus just cause my ego needs a stoke or two."

Brutal honesty tells me that this is an area that I have failed in the past many times, and I have concluded something: it is truly Him who changes lives. My attempts in the past to "change" someone by my own prideful attempts have accomplished next to nothing. This is not to say that He doesn't use us. But I am learning the difference in self centered personal justification and real spirit led counseling.

[matt_hatter]

I did find this statement interesting on another thread (quote from Jay Rogers)

"I am just concerned that you haven't allowed certain people the possibility of repentance. The Gospel is all about redemption."

My response to this is simple. I have seen a group of former Maranatha pastors in here, and I do include myself, who have in all humility readily admitted mistakes and begged forgiveness. Ironically, we all seemed to be cut out of the same mold, the ones who had many inner stuggles with the whole system, yet have been willing to publically repent of our own past mistakes. I refer you to GAH's moving post on a thread entitled Murray State, Baton Rouge, etc. as a humble example.

Factnet is not hard to find. I would imagine many ex MCM and EN folks are reading. The ones who really need to clense themselves have never shown up. I personally don't need them to, I hold no bitter feelings, but I will expose that cold hearted religion that held me and others in bondage and will do it with gusto.

It would just seem to me that men and women who KNOW that they have stolen money and essentially lives would begin to see it as they have aged. It is not my place to go seek them out and tell them I forgive them. For what? As Ginger has put it so well, they don't think they have done anything wrong! Herein lies the problem. If there has been a "possibility of repentance", why haven't we seen a little Biblical restitution on factnet, the Forerunner, Charisma, etc.

Much like Scrooge in "A Christmas Carol", until I see some type of major restitution, reform will be impossilbe.

Dear sheep, you current EN sweet young people, get out. You will find the real loving God who will give you life, and life abundantly.

[mcmstaff78]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Mattie: Much like Scrooge in "A Christmas Carol", until I see some type of major restitution, reform will be impossilbe.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Why is this a point so consistently missed by the defenders of MCM/MSI/EN and it's type? IF there is repentance, then they should bring forth fruit meet for repentance. I mean, if I heard this once I heard this a hundred times preached in Maranatha. Why don't the "leaders" adhere to the scriptures? They are so rigorous regarding tithing, authority, accountability, etc., and yet the things that are so very clear regarding the qualities of a "leader", an elder, a deacon, a bishop, they don't adhere to. Let these guys publically repent. Let those who have abused their positions really step down (and get jobs in the "secular" world). Bring some financial accountability and transparency to the organization. Quit treating people who disagree as if they were disagreeing with God. Actually demonstrate some repentance and then maybe there wouldn't be a need for FACTNet and the like.

[lablady2]

Matt: For the record, I agree.

I admire every former pastor who has acknowledged their faults. It shows humility, character and repentence, and I think that's all any former member of MCM/EN really wants. After all, I was just as deceived as any member of that group - how can I not forgive as I was forgiven? Here's the critical part of that statement: I was forgiven because I confessed my sin and asked for forgiveness.

Matt's right. The worst of the worst have never asked because they are not sorry before God or man. My life has moved on and God has restored more than I ever would have believed He could, but that doesn't excuse the leaders of these groups from repenting and showing acts of repentence.

How amazing and frightening is their utter defiance of the Word of God?

[mdillon]

mattie-but I will expose that cold hearted religion that held me and others in bondage and will do it with gusto.

hey, if i'm late to the party it doesn't mean i'm not coming....and i'm bringin' gusto

jon-Let those who have abused their positions really step down (and get jobs in the "secular" world)

jon we both know this won't happen because of the clergy-laity 'higher calling' koolaid that we (moi) drank that creates such and incredible fear of losing position and status. Deep deep seated pride of life and fear which breeds a cowardice of great proportion. but, hey, maybe that was just me.

Dear Lablady- one of the sheer joys and proof of God working His mercy on these boards is how He brought restitution between us and my only hope is that somehow others will take it as a testimony of His goodness.

dillyeaux

[matt_hatter]

It is interesting, I used to think that the top leaders would lay awake at night and in the seclusion of that time realize their need to repent. Not anymore, it was a naive thought coming out of my own "thought process", as I was one who lost sleep over my actions. These people do not have it within them to even think this way; I have read a few of the major leaders web sites and they are so full of the most wicked tall tales of their "look at me" accomplishments.

Therefore I once again entreat the dear young believers to get out, believe me, God will not desert you; I am a living testimony of that--- almost 25 years of Maranatha sobriety.

Gee, John, I guess you ought to come up with some more silly thread names, as they seem to bring out some of our innermost thoughts!
Matt

[john_r_jones]

”…the propinquity of the hoi-polloi...” A line from an old black and white film; to suffer the nearness of the problems and ethos of the masses. To be honest I don't care if they, whoever "they" are repent here or even publicly because I don't think the move of God is leadership centric driven. God wants a relationship with His people, all of His people not just the leadership, in fact especially not just the leadership. The culture of the ministry is a mutual addiction to roles and positions and hearing God in the context of those circumstances.

I remember when I first began to do my talk show in Paducah and was shocked to find that people were interested in what I thought about things. As time progressed I found a place of freedom to express myself apart from the shame I had labored under for years. No one individual gave me permission to do so in fact some folks resisted it because that had been the role we'd played out for years. As a consequence my life changed and I found that God had drawn me out and caused me to grow personally and to be freer in regard to fear and rejection.

That has in turn freed me to find humility amidst the hubris and bluster that was Maranatha. It has been a journey for me as obviously it has for y'all. As I've experienced this freedom I've chanced to encounter personalities in ministry that need to insinuate themselves as the nexus of their pastorate, I call them plate spinners.

They dash around like the circus acts that have spinning plates balanced precariously atop rods that they set in motion and then run around and keep going. As they wobble and slow down they have to run and spin 'em back up or they fall to the ground with a crash and shatter. The other "plates" see this and hope they keep their momentum going somehow for fear of falling off of their wobbly perch. It's a great way to keep people in line and too preoccupied with spinning to really live life doing something constructive-ever try to eat off of a precariously spinning plate? There's no nourishment to be had from them, their function in life is to be a part of something. I hope the people who are in these sideshows acts get sick of the crap and get out. It takes a while when you stop spinning to get your bearings you're dizzy and light headed. After a while you stop wobbling around so much and begin to be filled with something that’s both productive for you to do and beneficial to others. And most importantly you're at rest not perched unnaturally on some stick that some guru comes and wiggles around under your backside.

John

[matt_hatter]

JRJ: "I call them plate spinners."

Amazing analogy. As I was reading, it occured to me that the plate-people never have an opportunity to move up closer to God, they just have two options: spin in a circle like a tire stuck in the mud going nowhere, or crash and break. Neither option particularly appeals to me.

Thank you Lord for delivering me from the First Church of Vertigo.

[mdillon]

jrj-I don't think the move of God is leadership centric driven.

jonesy, mattie after years of the circus in MCM and especially post MCM (i was a bad plate spinner, broke a few, He forgave me...) it is my firm belief, settled there by costly experience, that if anything is 'leadership centric driven' that it is a qualified candidate for antichristism probably starting with anomaly moving into aberration and then full blown abomination (hey, that was a 3 pointer!). One is unaware of the progression from being simply in His way to being fully opposed to the Kingdom. Ha, years ago I was joking with some bros about God finally showing me how to get out of His way and the thought occurred to me how I should have had my business cards read: “In His Way Ministries”

In spite of the fact that God seems slow with judgment upon such, it is a marvelous mystery to behold how He still works within the sideshows to pluck out the sheep one by one and bring them to Himself. I chuckle and shake my head at those that talk about reform, sorry, I know, I need help, but jonesy I think you made the point about how most of the old Maranatha Houses have become parking lots. Maybe that was how God really felt about our grand vision. Reformhell, how ‘bout some demolition first?

dillyeaux

[matt_hatter]

dilly: "and i'm bringin' gusto"

Imagine that dilly, our "ministries" have been reduced to slogans from the beer that made Milwaukee famous. I'll take Joe Schlitz over Joe Smith anyday. Bought a 6 pack for old times sake a few years back. Became the beer of choice for this: http://www.drunkchicken.com/index.shtml

Not even sure the dead chicken was happy about it.

[mdillon]

now mattie if you bought some Schitz for old times sake at least one of those will have to be shotgunned----if you need help, holla

man i'm so glad i scrolled down on the drunkchicken mattie 'cause I was trying to figure out how that thing was going to fit on my head with all those beers. thanks

dillyeaux

[matt_hatter]

dillpickle: "I was trying to figure out how that thing was going to fit on my head with all those beers."

Ya know dilly, Labs could pilfer some of that I V tubing and I think we could rig up some kinda gizmo for the upcoming MLTS in Cookeville. We could attach the tubing with 4 "ICare" buttons...just thinking...we could call it the "FunRunner Funnel".

[mdillon]

mattie hang on, i'm trying to think of some clever rejoinder after i'm through

<font size="+2">LMAO</font>

god, it hurts

[matt_hatter]

BTW, you beat the factnet sensor with that spelling of the beer that made Milwaukee famous. What a bright boy you are.

[mdillon]

i knew you would like that

from me to you as we toast milton workingHAO

hahaha

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>Hi All,
Thank you dilly for "In His Way Ministries",I would like to offer "Flashy Fleshy Prophetic Words At Will". We could hit the conventions. I doubt that we would be noticed though.
Lolol http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

I am glad that He is slow to anger, and hope that some eyes will be opened.}

(Message edited by coppertree on October 06, 2006)

(Message edited by coppertree on October 06, 2006)

[wildwood_]

….ah…psssst, Hatter….<font size="-2">I hate to “break” this to ya…but if you’ve been delivered from vertigo…well, you aren’t a plate spinning in the mud…so…ah…that second option….about “crash and break” that also wasn’t appealing.... Sometime or another you “selected” Option 2 on your speed-dial (Grace &amp; Mercy of the Lord).</font> Doubtless your chicken-imbibing revelry with Dilly has been a distraction…perhaps you’ve had one too many chicken wings today… so, ah….pass that plate over here? Please &amp; Thank You. Got a napkin?

Amazing what a wonderful mosaic the Potter can make with some broken plates… little shards of ceramic tile and dust…all swept up, back in the Craftsman’s hands…hmmm, mingled with some finely “fired” precious metals… supported by a sturdy wooden Cross beam…. Sounds like a wonderful house for the Lord....His Church. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

Nice to be among a group of non-spinning plates! Although, now I'm getting dizzy from imbibing-chicken....

Hi Copper! Thank YOU, I just spent some time looking intently at the frescos of Masaccio…marveling at the emotions he portrayed in their faces as Adam &amp; Eve were sent out of the Garden…I expected to see Adam &amp; Eve’s distress—But the sorrow of the Angel was an unexpected … It makes me think that I'd have enjoyed meeting the Artist...and that he probably knew a great deal about broken plates, too.

[flo1151]

These are some good fartisms today. Matt when you said that you thought sometime the higher ups would be awoken in the night to see the err of their ways, I too thought the same thing. I trusted God to a fault in that regards. I thought that God was in charge and he would correct us if we were off base. It was taught that in the shepherding movement you prayed for those above you and God would change them if he needed to.

I didn't realise that some people didn't want to change. I had seen the faults in people higher up for several years and also things that were wrong in ministry but I thought that God had started Maranatha and he would straighten it out. So I got colder and colder for God and ministry as I could not justify where thiungs were going. I had an independant spirit cast out of me so many times it is not funny. The independant thinking was the only thing that kept our church from going down even a worse road. But then you would have the influence from the extralocal people and it would take weeks to get things back on track. (The thing is it was never on track because it was a poor foundation.) Bob W always prided himself on coming in and laying the foundation. The foundation was one of warped fear of God and not really knowing you are accepted in the beloved. You also had to earn your salvation and the overcoming life through works(ie witnessing, bible reading and prayer) Those efforts drove you away from God and his grace. I would bet the lessons still haven't been learned in EN.

flo

[lablady2]

Well, my, have you boys had fun today?

I'm painting the interior of a house this week, but I'll check up to make sure the pen is staying tidy.

My daughter is having a lingerie party tonight. I'm only going because she promises me there will be cake. Pray for me.

[flo1151]

quit teasing LL

[lablady2]

Flo: Ok, I give up. There will also be assorted nuts and ice cream. Only food would make me drive 30 miles after painting a house for 8 or 9 hours.

Besides, my idea of lingerie is a pair of Hanes sweat pants and a Relay for Life T-shirt from 1999. And furry socks.

[john_r_jones]

Flo,
I think your fartological thinking is correct-umm we may have hit on a new religion. Any ideas on the name?

John

[wisedove]

wildy

I am still wondering why you aren't writing a book...your way with words is quite (not quiet)impressive..

I'm wondering why I'm even attempting the book thang myself...

Hello, btw...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[john_r_jones]

Last fall in our church we housed Red Cross volunteers and fed them and did their laundry. There were folks from all over the nation here to help out. One thing I remember clearly is that there were kosher MRE's around for the faiths that don't eat Southern-pork fat in everything but cereal and ice cream. I also remember us making provisions to fix them some Kosher down home cookin' since BR has a sizeable Jewish community. So there were Jewish folks, Christians, Muslims, and New Agers sitting around the table sharing a meal and talking and enjoying each other's company during a crisis in a Methodist fellowship hall. I don't really have a point to make other than to say not making a point might be a good thing especially if it's at someone else's expense-oh I made a point.

John

[john_r_jones]

LL,
if you wore cutoffs and ran around barefooted we could call you "Ellie-Mae-Sheeva". Granny could do a nice Kosher country dinner (is Possum unclean?)and I'd show up at the feast as a double naught spy and talk into my shoe.

Jawn

[matt_hatter]

John, me thinks you have placed the iron skilllit hat on your head too many times.

LL, can you prepare one of those jewish feasts on the fancy eatin' table? We've got the 'pot passers' but that dang Billiard hangin' on the wall gives me the creeps.

Oh, quit talking to Krems, 40, and company. LOL It is like trying to teach a pig to fly. It ain't gonna happen, and it only pizzes (beat the censor) off the pig. I am your shepherd and that is your "word" for the day. OK, kidding, but I don't have to tell you that.

[ginger1]

John - Last fall in our church we housed Red Cross volunteers and fed them and did their laundry. There were folks from all over the nation here to help out.

that sounds fun ! I like to meet people and cook.

matt - quit talking to Krems.

Temptation is too great to resist .

[john_r_jones]

(Will this man shut up?)
As a point of consideration most of the church in Jerusalem believed the way LL2 does, that is they kept Kosher dietary laws, went to temple, including animal sacrifices. They recognized Jesus as Messiah but thought salvation came through keeping the law. After the first church council it was agreed on-mostly aquiesced to that Gentiles could receive salvation, but that the Jerusalem church under James and Peter would continue in the Jewish tradition.

In the day (Maranatha) I would be considered a compromiser and all sorts of other nasty things (Liberal) but I seek to find things we can agree on and fellowship around. Anyway I'm fairly certain an avalanche of rhetoric to refute my simplistic assertion may be in the offing, I suppose as well that you consider that ministry-I don't. I try to keep in mind that we are grafted into a religion that has thousands of years on us as Christians much less Protestants, or Charismatics.

Jonesy

[john_r_jones]

Ginger: that sounds fun ! I like to meet people and cook.

John: I like to cook people I meet.

oogah boogah

[matt_hatter]

flo:"I had an independant spirit cast out of me so many times it is not funny."

Of course, we know now that this "spirit" had nothing to do with satan. It is a strong part of your character that exists to this day. It is the thing that got you, others and I hope myself, to the point we are today. It is the confidence of knowing it matters not on the man who runs or wills, but on the God of mercy!

[mdillon]

mattie, flo--i too had that independant spirit cast outta me but it came back seven times worse.

or better

dillyeaux

[ginger1]

I would have start casting out that co-dependency spirit on them LOL !

Jonesy - I love meeting people, having this huge party , just having fun. I guess having a huge family made the big difference.
I remember my grandma slaughtering a pig, of course with help, stick a knife to the side of the neck , poured the blood out on a basin. Thinking the pig is dead, let it go, lo and behold the pig stood up , Grandma so surprised , had to do it all over again. I was laughing. It was a big surprise and unexpected.
We had a ROAST PIG by lunch time.

My grandma is so old school, she still cooks eggs , I mean literally drowns it in Pork lard. In a huge pan, 4 inch of pork lard. floated to the top swimming in pork lard but those eggs tasted soooo good . With 25 - 30 kids (all cousins) waiting for her to cook for more.

This story should have been in the Matt thread. LOL !

[matt_hatter]

Ginger, I used to lust after women. Now...just one of those fried eggs in pork lard...God forgive me for my evil lustful thoughts.

Damn, here comes Allie with that freakin oatmeal.

[matt_hatter]

Dilly, did Labby get the I V tubing? Got some time today if you want me to come up to the shop and see if we can construct the Funnrunner Funnel. I'll get 2 six packs of Schitz. I think we'll need a church key. The cans don't have pop tops.

[matt_hatter]

Ginger, as I have made a habit of not responding on certain threads, I must say you made a beautiful post on the Jesus Camp thread. You are so right, dear sister.

[mdillon]

mattie come on up but you better make it a case. prototypes take more material until we can streamline. will add extra storage to the Miss Kitty Slimline Stackable Liquor Cabinet™ to keep the Funnrunner Funnel ™

gotta church key somewhere but if i can't find it got plenty of screwdrivers

dillyeaux

[matt_hatter]

I gotta meet this Miss Kitty someday with building plan dimensions like that. Sounds like she and LabLady have a similar Architect.

Oh, I forgot, it is fried eggs I lust after now, sorry ladies for the momentary lapse back to my youth.

Dilly, I am gonna buy a 6 pack of Schlitz this weekend just cuz I like you so much. For real, they have it at the Winn Dixie. And I will smile as I cook a drunken chicken and swill the 5 left overs.

[mdillon]

where is Lablady? she must have got back late last night from the longerie party.

mattie your thoughtfulness and kindness is overwhelming to think you would drink Schitz in my honor.

dillyeaux

[john_r_jones]

Ginger we cook and entertain here as well, in Louisiana it's a way of life. My mom cooked eggs in bacon grease, still does. I use real butter and an egg pan to do mine. We have a food service account, commercial refrigeration and soon the same for cooking when I rip out the kitchen, after I finish the bathroom and a soda fountain. I'm a horse trader so I get these wild hairs which my wife thankfully indulges and I do things like install the drink fountain I bought from a defunct restaurant. My kids friends think it's cool to come over a get a drink. Or when a semi stops out front of the house with our grocery order. My last cookin' spree was for four-hundred, I'm probably guilty of bragging but I do love to entertain. I also have to admit that I like all of the unusual food products available through a wholesaler that you can't get at the grocery.

Jonesy

[lablady2]

Whew! Narrow excape back to the bunny trail where I belong.

md: The party. Who knew things had gotten so complicated? More information from my daughters than I ever needed, but they sure are two funny kids. I left confused but well-fed.

JRJ: Do not shut up.

Matt: I would love nothing better than to cook all of my Factnet friends a great Shabbat meal, Ellie May style. Challah and bar-be-que chicken, IV tubing and Mogen David.

Thanks to my friends for reminding me how good people can be.

[j2theperson]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Ginger: I remember my grandma slaughtering a pig, of course with help, stick a knife to the side of the neck , poured the blood out on a basin.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I'm trying to eat lunch here. That is so gross. ::barf::

[ginger1]

Jonesy, you and me are the same. I love to entertain, I have a huge house in southern california, and I used to have guest coming from overseas all the time. I had so much fun. I would love to do a cooking spree, thats sounds real fun. And yes, I do love unusual food. I love grocery shopping in an Asian supermarket or go to San Francisco chinatown and get some asian fruits. Oh, I can get a lobster for $3.99 a pound (dead) . A live one is $10.99. Then crab for $1.50 a pound.

I love to try any type of food except lambs or goats. I'll eat them but it does not mean I like them LOL ! (I rather eat pigeon than lambs and goats)
My hubby's grandma still cook eggs in bacon grease and they smell soooo good. Then the rest of the bacon grease she would fry some garlic then toss in some white rice. Garlic Rice. For breakfast. Eggs, bacon and Garlic rice. Filipino style.

My hubby kept warning me about pointing and shooting a slow 45 to the heart. I had to switch to healthy food. Like Matt said. Oatmeal for breakfast.
But once in a while I still sneak in the Garlic rice, bacon and eggs.

Sorry Matt, we had ya drooling.

[matt_hatter]

You know, poor J2 is about to barf, and I am drooling. For a guy on this sorry cardiac diet, it has been a wonderful trip down memory lane. Gotta drain the blood, J2, I can give you a lesson on "dressing" wild game if you want. Nah, would probably pizz you off more than JB("I disagree")Krems.
How was the pork chop sandwich, BTW?

[matt_hatter]

"and Mogen David.
Thanks to my friends for reminding me how good people can be."

One more comment to take J2' appetite away--if you cook some pancakes, we could pour the Mad Dog 20/20 on them for syrup.

And your welcome.

[j2theperson]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Matt: Gotta drain the blood, J2, I can give you a lesson on "dressing" wild game if you want.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I think I could handle dressing wild game. I don't have a problem with blood and guts per se. My problem arises more when I have to deal with tendons and bloody veins on a piece of raw flesh I am preparing to cook--just give me my boneless, skinless chicken breasts from the grocery store please. Ginger's story about the slaughtered pig was gross for several different reasons. (1) It's a pig and I think pig tastes kind of gross. (2) They were going to kill it, cut it up and eat it right away instead of killing it, cutting it up and then waiting for a day or two before eating it (I realize that might not make sense to anyone else, but I personally need a little time to psychologically dissasociate the sight of the slaughtered animal (specifically its bloody veins and tendons) from the food that I later consume). (3) I was eating while I was reading Ginger's story.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Matt: JB("I disagree")Krems<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
Hah hah. Or, how about, JB ("If I could interject here") Krems.

[matt_hatter]

I do understand the "dissasociative principle" here, when I was taught to fillet fish, it was difficult to have the fish fry a few hours later. I do agree with Ginger though, we Americans have a tendency to get all lovey-dovey about our animals, but continue to eat Whoppers and Big Macs like crazy. I think this is a western culture thing, but could be wrong.

Allie doesn't want to know anything about our hunting escapades, and I respect that. My sister has a hard time eating fish caught out of our pond, but no problem eating mahi mahi. Sure wish those rascals could survive in our pond.

As I have said before, I am a member of PETA--People Eating Tasty Animals.

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font>Hi All
I guess no comments about the game. There is always next year. And most likely no subway worlds series, in that other past time.}

[flo1151]

There is nothing like going out in the gulf catching snapper and grouper. Then coming back fileting them and eating them about 2 hours later. I know how fresh this fish is and how it was kept on ice and that the grouper has no worms in the flesh. (yummy).

[matt_hatter]

Copper, the only "no comment" I would have would be about what was supposed to be a football game in Auburn, Alabama, but then I said I am not going to comment.

flo, I can eat those bream filets as quick as I clean em now. Like you, it is some fresh food!

Hey, had a good thought. Sure like all you folks.
Love,
Matt

[matt_hatter]

Couldn't do it Dilly, went for the Yuengling Lager. And no, they will no be wasted on a chicken carcass. Sorry brother, forgive me for not following through with the Schlitz. Schedule me for a work day at the Girl's House next Sat. Let me prove myself by my deeds...I'll triple my pledge... durn, I'm having a flashback.

[ginger1]

I remember my grandma (mother side) there would be fishermen coming to her store (She owns a store) and would sell some eels. Those were around 5 feet to 6 feet eels . And they do taste mighty good. Meat are thick. The river eels taste better than the sea eels.

I remember also there is a river , couple of blocks away from her house, those people who lived down the province are so old school.
I took some friends there from church to visit my grandma, anyway, I am so used to the men over there crossing the river growing up.
They took off their pants, and underwear. Cross the river, then when they reach the other side of the river, they put thier underwear and pants on. So seeing these men butt naked is a norm for me, but not for the church people. LOL ! Ahhh , their faces were priceless.

[lablady2]

Here's some rambling old some such stuff.

I have acquired a new pet, but he's not really a keeper. I'd like to get rid of him in the nicest possible way. He is a little bat who has taken residence over my front door. At first, I was terrfied. Now, I'm getting attached. In fact, I've named him after my 25 year old son who also seems to enjoy just hangin' around my house.

However, there is the little problem of guano (JRJ - can you possible work that word into a thread title?) and rabies and grandkids.

Does anyone have any idea how to encourage a little bat who has lost his way how to find a new home? I don't want to harm it - or eat it - though I'm sure there are some tasty recipes to be found as evidenced by previous posts. I just don't guano step in the muck every morning.

[ginger1]

Call the animal control. I think they might know what to do.

[matt_hatter]

Animal control in Kentucky? They will batter the bat, fry him in Grandma's 4 inches of grease, and eat him for lunch.

Take a hose to him every time you clean up the guano. He'll get the message.

Seriously, Ginger probably has the right idea. Just tell them not to eat him.

[j2theperson]

Awww. But he sounds like such a cutie. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I understand the guano problem though....but still he sounds like a cutie. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[ginger1]

J2, it took me years to adjust to the taste of chicken breast. Asian and south american people, normally eat the other parts, namely, wings, legs and thigh.

But pork and beef tendon, those are norm. They do sell them separately, and I do buy beef tendon for my Vietnamese Pho noodle soup. Hubby's favorite.

[matt_hatter]

J2: Why am I not surprised?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

BTW. Read your blog. Do I need to get a bunch of good ol boys and open up a can of whoopazz? Just asking. haha




(Message edited by matt hatter on October 07, 2006)

[lablady2]

G: I called the Department of Wildlife for the state. They said to wash the spot on our house where he stays with Lysol and he wouldn't come back. They were wrong. I did get a set of plans to build a bat house from the wildlife department, but I'm afraid I can't get him into his new digs before spring. There's just something kind of creepy about a bat hanging over your door.......

[ginger1]

Wanna let him stay through halloween ? At least freak some kids out LOL !

[lablady2]

J2: He is very cute, and I am getting attached. I go out each morning with my cup of coffee to make sure he made it back okay.

matt: Yeah, the animal control guy just looked at me as if I'd lost my mind. Like...why wouldn't I want a bat hangin' over my door? At least he gave me plans to build a house for my bat and 99 of his buddies. As long as I don't have to put sheetrock in it.....

[lablady2]

Ginger: Good point! However, we never have kids up here anyway. We live at the top of hill and our drive is pretty long and steep. Parents don't bring their kids up here. Apparently, we're spooky enough without the bat.

[matt_hatter]

I have seen the bat houses, kindof a like a big bluebird house?

Face it, LL, like Krems, the bat has kinda grown on you. Just hose off the porch. He ain't gonna bite anyone. The bat, that is.

[lablady2]

matt: Yep, it's not a very big box at all but it will hold 100 bats. I think we will make one; I forget how many pounds of insects bats will eat, but the Wildlife guy was all a twitter about it. That's probably why he's a wildlife guy.

Matt; keep me on the bunny trails at gunpoint. My bad. Sleepless nights, a bum leg and Factnet do not mix.

[lablady2]

Ginger: wonder if Factnet would let us have a recipe thread? The noodle soup sounds very tempting.

I like to cook but love to bake.

[matt_hatter]

I do have plenty of guns ya know. I prefer the lighter stuff, .38 special and below, cuz it doesn't hurt my ears too badly. But I'm still a pretty good shot, so behave yourself. Hey, I'm shooting blanks. Don't worry. Man, that didn't sound right.

[ginger1]

I remember in my old chinese school. They have bats living in the ceiling. Some of them fly out and get lost during daytime. And you know how asian are, especially kids. Don't understand what it is , kill it.

[j2theperson]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Matt: Hey, I'm shooting blanks. Don't worry. Man, that didn't sound right.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
And yet you still chose to click the "post this message" icon.

[ginger1]

Lablady, if you have a vietnamese restaurant in your area, try their noodle soup. And see if you like it. I used short cuts , I make my own beef broth, but you can buy them in the store regular beef broth. Then the asian store sells Vietnamese Pho beef broth mix.

Boil the beef broth and thin slice beef , put the broth mix in and put your cooked noodles in and FRESH BASIL, lots of them. Thats it.

I can mail it to you if you like. The Vietnamese broth mix, in powder form. Nothing weird in it , just spices.

Asian rarely bakes, even our own taiwanese bread, its either deep fried them or Steamed.

[matt_hatter]

Wow, and I am still in the edit time window. Must really be a man of no reputation.

[40days40years]

To: Matt Hatter, go back to bed your up to early!

this message brought to you by 40, stuck in the dog house eating fried demonrats, yeah that is a supreme ministry. (wait for my books on distressed rodents) If I could only get Gingers grandma to cook for me, forget about her ma.

[ginger1]

You should see me every year, I dread calling her. On Ma's birthday. I do not mind her slandering me, spreading rumors. but its the one on one talking to her thats hard for me. She picks up the phone, and I would like to bury my head on the sand. Ma talks about her self righteousness and complains about life, money, Pa, me and my husband. Thats a normal conversation for her. So once we hang up (she never said good bye, she just hangs up) . I had to repeat myself " she is not a pharasee, she is just a nut case. Repeat it again, she is not a pharasee just a nut case... repeat it again...

[ginger1]

I am my grandparents favorites. Both of my grandma loves and adores me. I am also my mother - in - law favorite. And yet to my own Ma, I am the worst and the black sheep of the family. Go figure.

[sameo]

Ginger-hehe love hearing all about your family and culture. Very interesting. I love it. One of my best friends is vietnamese and I've had Pho Bah at her house many times. Her mom boils a whole chicken for the broth and simmers it for a couple of days to make it very strong. And the beef looks like an English butt roast(no comment hatter) which is sliced very thin. And she uses lots of cilantro. It seems they use cilantro in everything. I have had many incredible vietnamese meals in there home.(they used to own a restaurant) and after every meal she puts out a plate of fresh orange slices. Everything smells so clean and fresh. ahhhh......thanks for reminding me of a good memory. Love that soup!!! thanks for the info on how to make it w/ that mix.

[matt_hatter]

Ginger, I must say, you have learned something from your mama--how NOT to behave. Many daughters turn out like their mama, God has been good to you, and to maintain your sense of humor about it all is a wonderful testimony.

"A merry heart is good like medicine", eh?

And 40, a steady diet of people eating does not become you.

[sameo]

Uh, hello Marshall you out there? um...you don't shoot blanks do ya? the Longbranch would/could be in jeopardy if that's the case. I knew Doc was useless. hehe

Miss Kitty

[matt_hatter]

Doc plugs up the bullet holes, doesn't create em. Yea, right.

[ginger1]

Beef broth my version - Used beef bones with bone marrow. Boil it for several hours. Once the cartilage around the bone is soft enough, let it cool down, put it in the fridge. Once the lard solidify, skim it, throw it out.

I do the same thing with chicken or pork broth. I am just glad that those asian supermarket sell pork, chicken and beef bones. The home made broth is far better than cans. Flavor is a lot stronger.

40/40 when Ma was here in america, she LOVES the Republican.

[sameo]

Sounds good Ginger. Those bones w/ marrow do make good broth. I guess everyone has their own version of that soup, like chicken soup. Well, YUM! now I'm craving it. haha
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

to Doc: (cough, cough) ah, man I'm choking on my soup. Watch what you say when I'm eating. haha

[matt_hatter]

"And you know how asian are, especially kids. Don't understand what it is , kill it."

Was this a classic Ginger line or what? Sameo, be glad I am not an Asian Doctor.

[ginger1]

Matt, one of my brother turn out like Ma. And its no wonder he is not married. He is I think 36 or 37 and since he is Ma's favorite, and knew that she hated me. He would call and slander things about me. Or tattle tale.

No, I don't do anything about it. Though Ma would call me up and start accusing me of false things. I just have to take a deep breathe, and repeat it again. She is not a pharasee just a nutcase....

With my brother .. Nothing also. Its a bother for me to lecture and correct people one by one. So I just don't let it bother me. I can handle only one nutcase... and I do not want to add another .

[sameo]

Ginger:"She is not a pharasee just a nutcase...."

Ah, ginger ...haha you make me laugh. I feel for you. I know it's humorous, and all...but I also know it can feel like a burden at times. I understand more than you'll know. I am glad you have figured out how to deal with her.

Good for you!

[mdillon]

Doc Hatter since i'm the Marshall here at the LongBranch i'm gonna have to ask you to put your guns aside, especially firing off all those blanks might ruin our reputation around here.

y'all like the new beertap Jonesy installed? says Coke on the label but really pours RR.

Miss Kitty I think Ginger is the new cook we've been looking for here ever since Jonesy took off to go tear up stuff. She sounds like the perfect one to get rid of all the roadkill around these parts.

Where's Flo? we need some Allman Bro. hymns.

dillyeaux

[sameo]

Hatter says:"Sameo, be glad I'm not an Asian doctor."

hahaha Hatter...am glad you aren't a doc, period! We just CALL you Doc....(wink, wink) to make you feel special.

;-)

(Oh, I kid you...dry those tears.)

[matt_hatter]

Marshall, I am all for the new cook, as long as the bloodletting takes place in the alley behind the Longbranch. Enough shooting going on inside, oh, forgot, I am shooting blanks, no chance for blood. Go ahead Ginger slice away, baby back ribs by noon? I won't tell Allie. She and SteveO left me at home this morning. Told them I would do church on Factnet.

Sameo, my only tears are from laughter.

[sameo]

Marshall-I think Ginger would indeed be a great cook at the Longbranch. Simmered roadkill....w/ plenty of cilantro &amp; basil. And noodles. Yeh!!

Yoohoo Flo....now where did you go? probably at the Bath &amp; Body Shoppe smelling Eucalyptus soap again. Oh, flooo!!

[mdillon]

Told them I would do church on Factnet.

what you didn't tell them was that 'church' on factnet was being held at the LongBranch. Miss Kitty is back in charge of the dance ministry since milton is lost on the plateau.

Doc Hatter don't forget we owe jonesy for the new communion tap

dillyeaux

[ginger1]

Asian belief - Rhino or tiger genitals makes good aphrodesiac. My uncle's wife tried that , trying to make my cousins to eat fish. So she told them that it will make them good swimmers. SO thats what my cousin did, ate lots of fish , next day went to the school's pool and JUMP. The coach noticed that he is not coming out, jumped in and saved him.

Thats how the entire school found out about my uncle's wife....and so the news goes like this.... Yea , she is chinese... Oh ok, thats why...

[matt_hatter]

Jonesy, you sly dog. Coke logo on the RR tap. Wow.
Looks like we have had the sermon for a day. Don't trust fish or rhino/tiger privates. Got it. Making memory card. Recording Joe Smith "go to sleep" cassette. Drinking Schlitz. I mean Yuengling.

[mdillon]

Rhino or tiger genitals makes good aphrodesiac

flo we're gonna need you to collect the ingredients so we can advertise this dish at the Longbranch. we will also hire Jonesy to put on the new addition....

YEEEHAWWWW!!!!

dillyeaux

[mdillon]

mattie honestly, picking up Yuengling just when you were getting ready to purchase Schlitz is proof that God answers prayer at the last second.

I was worried about you. Now I am at peace.

dillyeaux

[sameo]

OH, thanks for reminding me of 'dance ministry' , Marshall. I so love those ribbons...and now that miltie isn't in the limelight I can have at it. You know last time he hogged all the ribbon...wouldn't even let me hold them. I mean, who does he think he is? hehe

Ah, miltie I miss goin' fishin' with ya...casting the line, seeing wormie cast, and hearing wormie yell cast. The thought of miltie sittin' on his tractor in a 4-4(or 3-3) does crack me up.

Hey Miltie...nanner' nanner'....I have the ribbon. hehehe Not giving it back! :-P

Hey I wanna tap dance in my boots. Got any good music, marshall? something kinda jazzy?


HAHAHA Ginger, great story! We can use that story on Doc hatter! (rhino and tiger genitals)

[mdillon]

Now Miss Kitty, easy with those tap boots....you remember last time...i'll keep it on some smooooooove jazz right here. btw, we haven't seen a witch in these parts in forever.

Lablady might need you to come do a little jig on her porch to get rid of that bat. flo will bring the fiddle

dillyeaux

[sameo]

Sure, marshall...you know I will always help a friend. I will scare the cast outta those bats with my tapping. haha Flo will more likely bring his washboard. I can see him now, chewin' on a piece of straw. Grinning real BIG.

You are so right about no witches. Think we skeered 'em off? if not, bring it on....I am always game for slingin'.

BTW-I am not always able to post(computer thing) but Lab I laughed my old hiney off at yer' loungerie party comments. haha I am so there with you. Hey, I just bought this great new book called "The Jewish Kitchen" by 2002 Glenfiddich Food writer of the year.(Clarissa Hyman) It's the greatest book. "Recipes and stories from around the world."

Also, I really have enjoyed other posts on here too! just can't always reply.(bummer-aol) thanks guys &amp; women!

Have a great day to all!

[lablady2]

sameo: I've had my eye on a couple of new cook books. I hope "The Jewish Kitchen" isn't kosher 'cause you're gonna need lots of pans and more cabinet space (call dillster). Good to see you, by the way.

Today, I'm making bagels. Tonight, grilled pizza. We do need a recipe thread, doggone it.

[matt_hatter]

I've got it: "The Glen Close Fatal Attraction Bunny Recipes and Other Such Goodies."

Or maybe: "Grandma's Bloodletting Bodacious Dishes From Around the World"

Hmm...OK..."Animal Parts Done Right, ala Ginger"

Sorry Phillip, couldn't resist.

[matt_hatter]

OK, Super Rabbit, with this post we are approaching 200 posts. About time for a new thread title that will be appropriate for this bunch.

[flo1151]

I have a great recipe for tiger and rhino testicle fajitas with salsa verde, viagara guacamole and hornee goat weed pica de gallo.

[j2theperson]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Lablady: We do need a recipe thread, doggone it.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
It's called the "Start New Thread" button. You will find one on the bottom left hand side of the General Chat thread. You can use it if you want to.

[matt_hatter]

flo, I'm still at the rest stop right over the state line. Bring your vittles. Question though...The big town of LaGrange in on the way to Atlanta. Recon we could stop for some Sunday Beer to wash it down?

Lablady, she is a smart-alecky kid, ain't she? I wonder if Eddie Haskell is still single. Purrrfect.

[lablady2]

J2: I'm just wondering who will foot the bill for Phillip Rosenthal's blood pressure medicine if I start a thread under "Morning Star/Every Nation" called "Quano cook? The Factnet Backslidden Bunnies Roadkill Recipes."

Practice your CPR.

matt: Eddie is hot.

[wildwood_]

Hatter! I've never felt inclined to feel sorry for Eddie Haskell before...but somehow that just seems like giving a Tribble to a Klingon... and J2T would be the <strike>trouble</strike>, ah Tribble...an overwhelming force in the Universe...!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

[lablady2]

J2: I'm just wondering who will foot the bill for Phillip Rosenthal's blood pressure medicine if I start a thread under "Morning Star/Every Nation" called "Quano cook? The Factnet Backslidden Bunnies Roadkill Recipes."

Practice your CPR.

matt: Eddie is hot.

[matt_hatter]

"My you're looking swell today Mrs. Cleaver."
Always like a guy who is smooth with the women. I think he would make J2 swoon. LOL

[j2theperson]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Matt: "My you're looking swell today Mrs. Cleaver."
Always like a guy who is smooth with the women. I think he would make J2 swoon. LOL<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
You think, Matt, but that does not make it so. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lame.gif

[matt_hatter]

OK....maybe a little less Americana, more goth...hmmm...got it! Eddie Munster! And since you thought Lab's bat was cute, you and Grandpa would hit it off!

[wisedove]

you all have been busy this weekend. thanks. once again, i have my work cut out for me trying to catch up.

[wildwood_]

She'd swoon a broom right on top of his head...why do you think they called that style a "flat top"??? Yes, I know that was a terrible almost pun...but Eddie Haskel provides limited material. I do wonder how Mrs Cleaver restrained herself all those TV episodes.... Maybe it was the pearls, I need to talk to my husband about some...

J2 COME IN HERE AND SETTLE THIS! <font face="times new roman,times,roman">Oh, I see you have...well as usual somebody posted while I was thinking of a clever remark...sigh... STILL...

In the meantime, I'm copying Ginger's instructions for beefbroth &amp; thinking that there's a whole new need for someone to invent a "guano" umbrella... And Lablady, if you build a house...they will come... So build it; stuff the bat inside &amp; deliver it &amp; his friends to the home of the Wildlife Guy...

And Dovey...there's a ton of reading...make sure you are alone or your family will think you're laughing hysterically for no good reason...or worse still, come &amp; try &amp; read over your shoulder...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif</font>

[wildwood_]

Eddie Munster! I like it! Devious enough to at least present a small challenge. However, I saw a photo of him recently &amp; the hairstyle just doesn't work on a grown man...air brushing didn't help. Now...what about Gene Simmons from KISS???? Interesting wardrobe and looks ok for an aging rock star...

J2...I'm working on my apology to you now. But I'm finding I want to do just what I did when I got in trouble as a child...point at someone else (that'd be my twin) and say "She did it first"....in this case of course I'd be pointing at a large laughing Mad Hatter....although, I did talk to my sister earlier today so I'm willing to blame my bad behavior on her...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif

[j2theperson]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Wildwood: J2...I'm working on my apology to you now. But I'm finding I want to do just what I did when I got in trouble as a child...point at someone else (that'd be my twin) and say "She did it first"....in this case of course I'd be pointing at a large laughing Mad Hatter....although, I did talk to my sister earlier today so I'm willing to blame my bad behavior on her...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
Whatever. Quite honestly, the full extent of the crazy-creepiness in the guys y'all are trying to match me up has gone over my head because...they're all from way before my time. (Although, to be fair, the idea of Gene Simmons did fairly creep me out. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif)

Besides, as I'm pretty sure I have stated previously, I got a word from the Lord about this, and He said my intended was either Hugh Jackman or Matt Drudge. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[wildwood_]

LOL...Hey J2! I creeped myself out too! Age is only relative when it involves someone else...as for me I stand by my personal lack of maturity...it's taken me years to become this young &amp; foolish--http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif I haven't heard from the Lord on this, but I'm inclined to favor Hugh Jackman...Drudge is ok but he's going to be out every Sunday Night &amp; give you some lame excuse about being on the radio...

[40days40years]

Hey we can hook up j2 with Burt Reynolds. She can be the younger woman.

[coppertree]

<font face="arial,helvetica"></font> Hey J2
What about Mr. Lambert, of Greystoke fame. He could his money dance on a nice Edwardian table. And politicaly he is.....well gone to the apes, it is said.}

[ginger1]

J2 being Loni Anderson ? She is Hot !

[ginger1]

Now, J2, Loni used to be Burt Reynolds ex. Don't know what she sees on Burt though... Just a brief history.

[j2theperson]

No, no, no. You guys don't understand my taste in men at all. I actually wrote a rundown of men I find sexy (http://www.jessicamenn.com/journals/2005/041805.htm) once many moons ago. Although not on that list, I also think Peter Falk is pretty cute, and pre-whale days Orson Welles was, quite honestly, The Sex.

Now, with that foundation laid, I demand that you all start picking some really hott guys out for me. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[40days40years]

Hugh Grant from 20/20? Honestly it does not seem like it will take much to make you happy. Your choices are pretty eccentric. 26 years a go you would be telling Matt Hatter: No,no,no I don't want the golden boy with muscles I don't care he is destined for leadership he is to dumb, I want that nerd over there with big ears and the star trek collection. Dr. McCoy from star trek?

[matt_hatter]

Bogart. That's your guy. Flippant just like you. Like Rick and Louie, you two are peas in a pod. Damn. Forgot, the dude is dead.

Major Stasser: What is your nationality?
Rick: I'm a drunkard.
Captain Renault: That makes Rick a citizen of the world.

We will keep looking, but it will be tough. There are no Bogarts anymore, just panty-waisted shrimps who jump up and down on Oprah's couch. Bogie would have taken Tommie boy out behind the sound stage and whipped his butt for that wussy performance.

[john_r_jones]

Bogie got that signature lisp while in the navy when a fragment went through his lip, BTW.

Jonesy

[matt_hatter]

Bogie and Jimmy Stewart. Now we're talking, where did they all go? We're stuck with Matt Damon, Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt. Yuk.

[ginger1]

J2 - i saw your rundown of men I find sexy. Now, I have to hide my hubby from you. Small waist, curly receding hairline, big nose, patriotic, smart and he can make a good speech. I had him wrote a letter to my Ma and Pa that I am married and pregnant.

It made Ma cry (Sis called she was laughing), thats how good a letter writer he is.

To think, I had not to worry about him for years !

[flo1151]

J2,

So you want dead or nearly dead men? I know some of those type guys. Walter Cronkite, Fidel Castro, The guy who lives 3 houses down from me. I think you can find all of these on myspace.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[j2theperson]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Ginger: J2 - i saw your rundown of men I find sexy. Now, I have to hide my hubby from you. Small waist, curly receding hairline, big nose, patriotic, smart and he can make a good speech.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
Why is it that all the cool guys are either dead or married already? Yeesh! Save one for me. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

And, seriously, Flo, you could not pay me enough money to married Walter Cronkite or Fidel Castro (and probably not the guy down the street from you either). ::shaking my head:: http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif