RALPH WELLS EXPOSEDTHE TRUTH WILL BE TOLD

[maria_t (maria_t)]

DEAR RALPH.

THIS THREAD IS DEDICATED TO YOU SO NOW YOU DON'T FEEL LEFT OUT NOT BEING THE CENTER OF ATTENTION HERE ON FACTNET.

YOU MAY HAVE SILENCED YOUR WIFE ALL THESE YEARS BUT YOU WON'T SILENCE ME. I WILL NOT SIT BACK AND LET YOU MANIPULATE PEOPLE I HAVE GROWN TO LOVE POSTING HERE ON FACTNET THAT ARE STILL RECOUPERATING/HEALING FROM GGWO. I DO NOT WANT THEM FALLING FOR THE BALONEY YOU POST STATING YOU HAVE CHANGED, REPENTED...ETC.

I HAD HOPED WITH THAT APOLOGY NOTE YOU EMAILED ME THAT PERHAPS IT COULD BE TRUE. LESS THAN 2 WEEKS AFTERWARDS, YOU PROVED IT LOUD AND CLEAR THAT YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED ONE SINGLE BIT. YOUR MOUTH STILL TESTIFIES OF WHAT IS IN YOUR WICKED UGLY HEART.

MARIA

[maria_t (maria_t)]

My original post.....

<font color="ff0000">maria_t
Intermediate Member
Username: maria_t

Post Number: 212
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.17.195.22

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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 4:49 pm:


Ralph
When you can apply your new Christianity to Paul Stevens and retract the remark you said to me on the phone Christmas day in regards to his needing to publically repent from the pulpit....then you and I will start to clear up the years of messes YOU created for Nancy and I that will never ever change in people's minds down at GGWO.

You were the pot calling the kettle black demanding a repentance from Paul Stevens publically. You yourself should be in that pulpit repenting if thats the case!! How many lives and relationships did you destroy running your mouth repeating things said to you confidentially??? You, who was a staff pastor who was privy to PRIVATE INTIMATE details of people's lives!!!

What you did with me on the phone was typically GGWO. You bashed a body member that left the ministry. You can go ahead and try to tap dance your way out of this one. I wasn't alone when the phone call came in from your cell phone.

Yes, I am angry at you knowing what you are well capable of doing to people. Yes I too will have to go to God in regards to the way I feel about you, and what you said to me about my pastor. (Paul Stevens). Shows me you haven't changed one stinking bit since you left GGWO. You can fool these people here on factnet all you want, but Nancy and I are not going to be fooled by you again. Not ever.

Maria </font>

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<font color="0000ff">tywint (tywint)
New member
Username: tywint

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 6:48 pm:


You are so RIGHT, Maria!

Ralph, I have been in touch with you since you left ggwo concerning the matters that you have mistreated my family with and you have refused to accept responsibility for what happened and only defended yourself.
So what's the story? Will the real Ralph Wells please stand up?
Don't trust this guy.....
</font>
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rjfernalld (rjfernalld)
Advanced Member
Username: rjfernalld

Post Number: 632
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 151.203.186.99

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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 7:11 pm:


"Don't trust this guy....."

why? specifics? he has done an unforgivable sin?


}

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

Ralph was a victim as well in GG, mocked by other pastors. True he has a freeness about him, may be a little loud at times, has went the wrong way sometimes in search of a place where he felt God would use him.

Many of us have been on roller coaster rides with God also.

I know Ralph and Kathleen for many years. With all his faults, (and we all have faults), his heart is to serve and love people.

Maybe he doesn't always wait on God, few do. But I can attest that his heart is humble, his spirit is um well,boisterous and bursting out happy, joyful songs, always smiling http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif you just know when he is in the room.

But he too is on a journey, and when he is wrong he immediately humbles himself. Now I am speaking of this time I've gotten to know him while I was in the nursing home.

People change, we all are constantly going backwards or going forward in the Lord. It is hard to stand still because when Jesus walked by He said "Follow Me" (and He kept going, not lookning back) and they followed, faltered, stumbled, drew back, ran ahead, walked with Him.

Forgiveness as Maria pointed out is a choice. Discernment is a gift.

If someone rubs u the wrong way it one of two things:

God is using them to rub you for His purpose to test you or you are living in unforgiveness and lack the wisdom to utilize the amazing grace God bestows upon us for just such a situation.

Anyway all I am saying is we have broken free of bondage not to be put back into bondage again, so allow people to heal and grow and get angry and love and hate and run and hide and serve and love as God gives them the ability through grace and as the healing in their heart has made it tender towards others.

Hope this makes some sort of sense. As I hear it in my heart at this moment I type the words, but due to age, Illness and overtiredness, I cannot see if I have typed properly.

Anyway good night all, and I hope this helps.

In Christ and with love

Nancy Curra

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Nancy,
Thanks for your post. Forgiveness is an issue of choice. This has nothing to do with forgiveness.
This goes far deeper.

I too have known the Wells Family for a long period of time. I saw the zealousness and pushyness of a busybody who needed to keep his own nose out of other people's business. He used some very vile means of extracting information from people, intimidation being a very good one. For awhile it worked on us til we saw and heard things that were out of our control.

He was a victim at GGWO and other pastor's mocked him. Yes, Nancy that is a true statement. Let's take it a step further. He brought it on himself.

Bottom line is, he is equally as guilty as those self serving bastards down at home base for lying, manipulating, abusing and spiritually raping the body there. I hope this post cuts him deep enough to really realize just how much damage he has done to people by the games he played with them. All for the glory of Ralph. Look at me, people...I'm important. I'm a pastor. See, I'm privy to "XXX" info about "X and Y"...and do you know this....did you hear that....shame on you Ralph Wells. You were a staff pastor, bound by confidentiality and you kept NOTHING under your belt except the sneaky bull**** and lies the leadership were feeding the sheep all these years. You want to know why people made fun of you? You acted like a pompous ass pushing yourself on people, inviting yourself to things you weren't invited to, you even forced your way to sing at a friends wedding by intimidating the bride into thinking GOD told you that you were to sing there and because you were a pastor, you could say those things to her and you were, of course, right...just because the pastor she married didn't have the balls to stand up to your arrogant self. Well I saw the video of that wedding &amp; reception....and the glory went to Ralph. If only you knew people didn't even want you there, but nobody could talk to you or tell you anything. You were always right.

Bottom line is this. I've said enough. You people want to befriend him don't come crying to me when the torch he shares burns your backsides. Do I sound hard? Yup I am hard and on purpose. I will not let this man into my personal life again.
I will never make him privy to one single detail of information about anyone I know. I saw what the damage his forked tongue can do. I heard from his very lips the same character maligning typical of GGWO staff pastors just 10 days ago. God allowed that to happen for a reason.

Nancy, I again thank you for your post and your kind words about Ralph. Perhaps your experiences with him were not what mine were. I have a list of people, some still in GGWO that have a very
sick stomach hearing the mention of his name.

RUN...Forest!! RUN!!!!! (Great movie lines that most certainly apply here).

Maria

[terra_cognita (terra_cognita)]

Maria,
It is cruel to say that "Kathleen was silenced" by her husband all these years. I would consider her virtuous for being faithful to her marriage with all the weaknesses/sins that even Ralph has admitted to on FactNet. She was patient and her consistent love is changing him. He mentioned his wife's influence twice on FN. The guy made a public confession on FN. He invited anyone to personally address him on sins he committed against them. I believe he did this after he offended you on the 24th. You should have gone to him and spoken to him first before posting here on FN. This thread is unnecessary. It's the same thing as GGWO's marking of people. Ralph got out of the same evil system we were all in. His personality will never change, but it sounds like he is teachable to change his behavior and thinking. You could have done that with him. You should delete this thread.

[tywint (tywint)]

I went to him and spoke with him. Nancy, sorry to disagree with you, but on this one I think you are wrong. My experience with him is that his is the same proud Ralph defending his actions - the same actions he did while he was a pastor at ggwo. I remember he was one of Steven's biggest fans. I think you are being duped if you believe the phony crap he posts about changing. You decide for yourself whether to believe him or not, but I say he's talking out of both sides of his mouth - based on my family's personal experience with him.

[tywint (tywint)]

I would also like to ask Ralph publically this question:
Many years ago you told this story (more than once). I would like for you to either confirm or deny that you still believe this about yourself. The story went like this, as you used to tell it:
"God gave you a vision of Jesus Christ being super-imposed onto your body and told you you would never backslide again."
I heard you tell this story with my own ears (remember Hector's?) as did many others - you admittedly told this many times.
So,Ralph, where do you stand with this?

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Ralph; Despite all the heat you're taking, I hope you hang around. If your intentions are honorable, then it will become apparent in the long haul. If you just give up and go away, then it will look like all these accusations are accurate. Even if they are, you can change. And you know what? I've seen people's personalities change a lot as they've walked with God. He's the one who can change us. Let Him make you all that you're supposed to be.

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

"This thread is unnecessary. It's the same thing as GGWO's marking of people."

I totally agree with you terra. I tried to address this issue on another thread, and evidently I was not successful.

[stephen (stephen)]

Doesn't anyone realize that ANOTHER man Paul Stevens is apparently being exalted, defended and possibly worshipped just as we all once exalted, defended and worshiped Carl Stevens? This is a dangerous place to be emotionally and spiritually. maria_t I admire your spunk and loyalty but please be careful; I would hate to see you get hurt by this situation.

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Thank you stephen. I have recieved a number of emails lately from people who are saying the same ....almost word for word...as you have here. There seems to be a growing faction of "Paul" loyalists that are causing some to worry that the same phenomena of pastor worship, loyalty etc (mostly because these believers are not yet healed from the spiritual abuse from GGWO)will continue and grow to an abusive situation. It is a dangerous place to be emotionally and spiritually.

Many have been worried and are praying for the situation.

[kpntreal (kpntreal)]

damn straight RJ !

[isabella (isabella)]

Maria,
You're OK. Rest and read the Bible. It's very difficult to wade through this stuff, but if I did, (and I did) you can too. God Bless you, Maria.
Isabella

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Isabella, kpntreal isn't being mean...there does come a time when someone must address these issues. If Maria can tell it like she sees it so can everyone else. That can only be considered fair, no?

People who are in the process of 'evolving" need to be rebuked at times and reminded to check themselves. This is especially important for passionate people, as I know well. I needed a good reality check more than once after I left. I was blessed that my exit counselor and my friends who had already been through the process stepped up and said something to me. Their cautions and clarity were invaluable to my healing. It is common for people newly free to feel that they have been healed, but it takes a long time and should not be done without help....hopefully qualified help if possible.

There is a very real danger for people who leave an abusive church to become abusive to others who hurt them, exchange one idol for another, and to be unaware that these things are happening. Some become extremely hyperspiritual and sadly unentreatable, because no one spoke up with a word in season.

And this marking of people is abusive, uncalled for and Maria really should think twice about this for her own soul's sake...abusive behavior needs to be called for what it is.

That is what stephen and kpntreal have done. They have spoken in a cautionary way what others have noticed.

We are, as Jack so aptly said, responsible for each other.

[tywint (tywint)]

rj, please back off of Maria. You have already made your opinion perfectly clear. Maria and others have every right to disagree with you. You don't own this board, so stop monopolizing it. Just because you disagree with someone's post doesn't give you the right to keep on about it. So what, Maria is upset and she has a right to be. Maybe you should examine yourself with this comment "Some become extremely hyperspiritual and sadly unentreatable". Is this statement only meant for those besides yourself?

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

tywint

Please understand. Everyone here has a right to express themselves, you, Maria as well as anyone else.

If I had meant to say MARIA has become "hyperspiritual and sadly unentreatable" I would have said exactly that. I am not afraid to say what I think, any more than Maria is. She knows that.

And as far as "backing off"...there are others who read this board and post here who believe as I do. Maria has never been one to back off when she believed in something strongly. She knows me and knows that I am the same.

I think it is an awful thing to post this here as she has, but not only for Ralph. I think it is not good for Maria either. She and I disagree on much it is true, but you have misunderstood my motives.

Just like I didn't like what Jim said to Susanna publically on the DeMeo thread, I also thought this was, as terra said..."This thread is unnecessary. It's the same thing as GGWO's marking of people."

Maria knows the score, t...she has gone a little too far is all, and people other than myself have mentioned it. I am monopolizing nothing. I am just an easy target because I am not afraid to speak what I feel... Maria knows this about me. It may be a surprise to you, but we have spoken at length off this board on a variety of subjects. She is often angry with me, but she knows I speak from my heart as she does.

I will continue to speak as I choose...

[kirk (kirk)]

Hey Tywint,
Who put that stick up your ass? What is your beef with RJ? Can't handle a strong woman?
Say your peace and state your case with Ralph or get the hell off everyone's ass.
Typical GGr

[pob (pob)]

hey kirk,

would love to correspond w/ you, I realize one might be leary of publishing ones email here, but maybe if I send the Byrne's an email, it will have a chance of getting to you.


see you at the great student council meeting in heaven

[yogi (yogi)]

Is "TYWINT" actually "TYRANT" in Elmer Fudd ease?

Yogi

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

WOW! I go away for the weekend I come back to discover I have stirred up a hornet's nest.

Thank you Bob, no, I WILL NOT run away. My wife and I discussed the fact that I would open myself up to attack when I posted on here. She agreed that it was what God wanted me to do. She does not read this stuff, because she knows it would be too much for her, but she is praying for and encouraging me.

Tywint, yes, I still stand my what you heard me say at Hectors. That is why once God "cut through the fog" of my GGWO trained thinking I bagan the steps of getting back on track. Please remember eactly what I told you God said to me, "You will never backslide again. That does not mean you will not sin, but you will not backslide." I have sinned, just as we all have. And will surely sin again. The difference between sinning and back sliding is whether I turn when God speaks, or do I go on in my, now, rebellion? I may have been stupid, deceived myself, anything you want to say. But when God got through to me, I left and am trying to make things right. As to what we spoke about, I still believe that biblically the situation we addressed was off. Whether I handled it right or not is the quesiotn, and for that I already said I am sorry I hurt you.

Maria, I stand by my statement, and will make it public here, with issues at hand one cannot simply go on as though nothing has happened. That is what I told you and that is what I maintain. I am not attacking P. Paul, I too love him. But even I recognized my need to step down, and did for two years, to allow myself to be healed from mis-application/condoning mis-application of doctrine.

Nancy, thank you for your love and support.

Again, I am not running away. Even if someone attacks us, we must all recogonize that it is a part of their healing process too.

I think that Nancy fingered me best of all. Yes I was/am exhuberant. Most who know and have known me say I have mellowed over the past three years. I msut have, the old Ralph would have reacted to attacks. But for all my exhuberance and and zeal, it has always been my desire to do the work of God and protect the sheep. My major problem was silence.

David put it this way "Blessed is the man that walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor satands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful." When I taught or applied doctrine wrongly I was guilty of the first. WHen I amen'd someone else teaching or applying doctrine wrongly I was guilty of the second. But, when I silently said nothing, I was guilty of the third.

I AM GUILTY. Or at least was. But could you please be just a little gentle on me as we seek the healing path?

As Tiny Tim said, "God bless us, everyone."

Ralph
1Cor15:10

[john_krainis (john_krainis)]

1. Ralph Wells is on record repudiating the errors of GG. He expressed remorse and willingness to take responsibility for his actions. He is to be commended! This is courageous, rare, and in accord with every page of Scripture. I applaud his example.

2. Is he sincere? God knows, but we who are not God are called to think and hope the best (1 Corinthians 13). If you, Maria, feel that you aren't making headway working through things with him, by all means enlist others to help and hold Ralph accountable.

3. At its core, the Gospel is good news. God is a God of "second chances" - no matter how awful our crimes, He wants us all to finish well. In fact, He and all heaven rejoice when one person repents.

4. Ralph's belief that Paul Stevens needs to publicly repent appears to be the basis for the strong feelings expressed on this thread. This belief is not a sin or personal attack, but a principled position. Calling for repentance is a trademark of true representatives of God.

(Message edited by john krainis on January 10, 2005)

(Message edited by john krainis on January 10, 2005)

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Ralph,

Thank you for openly sharing yourself here. It was brave and selfless.

I have always said "It is not the sin but the system." God is exposing an abusive system, the players in the system abused.. pastors on down.

It does not matter who we find on the exit ramp departing from TBS/GGWO; friend or foe; stranger or loved one. It is our responsibility to be inclusive. Is that not Christian love?

I realize sometimes it is not clear to us who is in or who is out. But when a pastor comes on this forum and repents for his past sins. Defines the exact same process as we, ourselves have gone through than I choose to accept him with the same brotherly love I extend to a loved one.

This is a tangled web of a ministry. Patience and kindness is needed while God is separating the wheat from the tares.

(Message edited by jeannie on January 10, 2005)

(Message edited by jeannie on January 10, 2005)

[lee (lee)]

Ralph, glad to see you on the exit ramp....there's plenty of space! Those there for awhile can easily scoot over to make room for more! It's always nice to be surprised as to who you'll see next!

[tywint (tywint)]

I have a differing opinion because of my experience I get attacked personally with jokes made at my expense.
THAT sounds like a typical gg'er to me. I guess there can be cliques here in cyperspace as well.

[yogi (yogi)]

Our ONLY hope is in God's love, hand of guidance and direction for the lives HE has ordained us to live and NOT any man's agenda, be he good or bad.

Yogi

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

tywint,

Please apprise me of where-in I personnaly attacked and I will repent. As to making jokes about people, only President Clinton, and I even had to repent of that.

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[yogi (yogi)]

We of GGWO were a people TRAINED to look at and exalt man...now we must shift our thinking to look at GOD!It is very apparent we are STILL looking to a man for our answers by the offense one for another exhibited by people on this forum. Time to grow and put away the childish ways encouraged at GGWO i.e, cliques, man worship and worrying about what others thinks about me, me, me!

Yogi

[yogi (yogi)]

Ralph,

I think TYWINT was talking about stephen and Kirk!

Yogi

[minutus (minutus)]

Jeannie,

I like your point about the failure of the system. My biggest problem with GGWO was the fatally flawed theology of spiritual authority which left pastors (and I do believe almost every pastor I knew there was called and gifted as such) without accountability and protection from the temptations to abuse their power. The continual coverups and "rebound" kept men struggling with the weaknesses which beset all of us from facing their problems squarely and overcoming them. The results spilled over into the flock and the weakest members there were generally hurt the most. Unless the theology of pastoral authority changes, the results will not change.

Dave Carson

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Dave, You are absolutely right. I have been believed this from the beginning of FN as the following posts attest. Back in the days, when I still feared what these men could do to my family, I posted anonymously. I no longer afraid and I was right; they did everything possible to hurt my family for speaking the truth. It has always been about false doctrines generating a false abusive system....


Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 05:56 pm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear "Mel",
I do have all my facts correct, and of course, I choose not to share the how's and why's of my knowledge in this forum.
And you are correct, it is an ever-changing course of prognosis's and medical conditions. What is not ever-changing is the baseline truth that these conditions were caused by drug abuse. Pastor is an elderly man and needed urgent intervention many, many months ago.
I kinda find it hard to believe that you are not part of GGWO. Because at all cost, you avoid the central issue repeated over and over in this discussion board: Accountability. This has been the central controversial issue concerning this church's long history. It was addressed from within to no avail (ie..Quinlan, Hollick, Bobby O in the 80's and the many others who tried to implement governmental change, but they were discredited and have long since gone). And from without (ie..Billy Graham's organization, Walter Martin's report), they were also discredited. The CRI report predicted if the unbiblical doctrines of "touch not god's anointed" were not corrected, this church would ultimately fail. There has never been any checks and balances in GGWO government. Pastor surrounded himself with men of unquestioning loyalty, this produced the environment for Pastor to abuse his mind and body on drugs and no one stepped in to stop him. Except one, his son Paul, if you know him, ask him personally what happened. I am sure he could show you his wounds and scars for trying to intervene on his father's behalf. I digress, so the central issue is this: if a faulty doctrine brought down the head pastor, is it not time to finally correct it? And if the leaders refuse to correct it, is it not time to expose it?
And you are correct to assume I am not fragile, anymore, but the loss of my fragility came at great cost. Would you like to see my scars? The wounds no longer remain, they were healed by a merciful God and loving friends and self-education. And you are right to assume there are those at GGWO that are not fragile but there are those that are. It is for those that I have a moral, ethical responsibility and cannot just walk away.



Friday, March 26, 2004 - 10:21 am


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Our lives are this church also! Whatever the cost, the leadership should have lived by the biblical principles they preach. In the real world, we cheer on anyone that stands up against all odds and does the right thing! We write books about it, make movies about them. But at GGWO we can give all the leaders a pass caused they were forced to NOT do the right thing?? Does anyone realize how irrational that thinking is? Again, advice here says "we should sit back and pray"?? So that is the only recourse for us lowly body members? No, we have responsibility as individuals to SPEAK UP when wrong is being committed and if the leaders like Schibelli and Schaller want to protect their positions and paychecks then we the lowly body members will have to do it for them. don't give them a pass, don't give ourselves a pass! We can be merciful but judge righteously and be in God's perfect will all at the same time. Has any of us stepped back and observed what our church has become? I know that I know that I know that my spirit is grieved everytime I enter GGWO doors. Everyone may attempt to cover that truth with multiple standing O's and pulpit-directed cheering but my spirit knows. I am ashamed of my leaders and I no longer trust them as the "letter-writer" said but I will find a way to stand for truth and what I believe is right even if they will not! And it will be at great cost to my family and I STILL am going to find a way. Sadly, these godly principles were taught by the mouths of these very leaders and they went into my spirit and still dwell there but I have not learned this by their actions. The Word is the thing we must honor, not the men! They will have a long road back to prove they deserve my honor.

[maria_t (maria_t)]

tywint,
What RJ said is true. She speaks her mind and so do I in regards to things. We both know we don't always agree with what the other one has posted, or maybe the manner in which it was posted.

It is true that RJ and I have talked on the phone outside of Factnet. She is a very caring and unique person and we have become friends. We respect each other's difference of opinions, knowing that our opinions stem from our experiences.

As for Ralph Wells, some feel that I shouldn't have started this post, others said nothing, some emailed me off of Factnet, and some people spoke to me on the phone. I said what I said and I don't retract a word of it either. We had terrible things happen to us at the hands of this man. However, he claims that his repentence is genuine. If it had been Ed Lutz, or any other pastor besides Paul Stevens that he had made that nasty remark to me on Christmas Day about, nobody would have said a word. But, because it was Paul Stevens, the issue of "man worship" comes up again. Its "ok" that Ralph repented openly on here and I get told to be more gracious, forgiving, loving, etc...and that this thread should be removed. Do you remember reading when Paul Steven's repented on here? They beat the ever loving crap out of it saying it wasn't sincere, look at his fruits, he'll have to prove it, etc.

Well how about the "truth" that Ralph didn't "voluntarily" step down to get right with God for 2 years. His reputation went before him. He had no other choice but to "sit," he no longer could be trusted in a leadership capacity. He was beating up on the sheep for God's sakes. Leaders to this day do not trust him.

I don't feel that anybody is beating on me or ganging up on me. I'm also not going to let go of this issue easily. We all have the things we believe we are right about that we stand up for. It is going to have to be the Lord himself that shows me there is a real change of heart as far as Ralph Wells is concerned. I don't claim to be hyperspiritual or elite or the only person that hears from the Holy Spirit. I said I am spending time before the Lord...gee whiz when you do that, its amazing the kind of junk you find you have inside of you. Yes, there is a deep seated anger in me -- very much directed at the things this man did to me, and to my roommate over the years, and to others in the body. Things I WILL NOT print here unless the Lord leads me to, and He has not. Yes I have gone to the Lord every single day about this because its still a very painful area inside of me, I purpose daily to walk in love and forgiveness towards Ralph as best as I am able to do so.

I am going to say too, there is also a righteous anger part too, at the things this man has done. I get a very intense "check" in my spirit in regards to letting him "back" into my personal life again. I'm not sorry if this offends some, its not meant to offend anyone.

Tywint don't be afraid to post what you see, what you know, what you believe. There will be people that disagree with any of us posting here. Do what you feel is right to do before the Lord. I know my tone could have been a bit nicer when I posted about Ralph. For that I do apologize, but I am not sorry for one thing I warned everyone about. I don't intend to let things he writes slide. I know this man and I know what he is capable of doing. Don't let yourselves be fooled.

Maria

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Terra,
There is no cruelness in my heart towards anyone. I find it funny that you always side against me if i post harshly yet last week when someone posted about my big fat ass, etc....you were nowhere to be found!! Imagine that.

Its no "learned" behavior from GGWO that I post the way that I do. Its not a "marking" either. I know all of us have come out of an abusive situation. This man was one of their abusers. I don't see any reason why the things he did should not be exposed, just as the things others in leadership there did and were exposed. It isn't only me that had an issue with Ralph Wells. If it was, perhaps your post would be justified.

Like I said above, I know this man and I know the manipulation he used well and the damage he did not just to my life, my roommates, but countless others at GGWO. Not all of this was his learning from the GGWO system of doing things either, he learned well from the Pentecostals.

It was Ralph himself that said he had silenced his wife, so perhaps you need to go read the other threads yourself. You obviously have a problem with me that you have no problem making it public on here, yet you tell me to take my problems with people off Factnet. Many of the women here that post will tell you that was a GGWO tactic -- the silencing of women. Ask those who left years ago. Roberta? Bonnie? You both know this is true because we have talked about this very thing off of Factnet.

As principled as Roberta is in regards to the children and sexual abuse (and thank God she is) I am as principled and I am telling everyone here to watch out and consider yourselves warned in regards to making friends with Ralph Wells. Chide me all you want, and say what you will. It won't change my mind one bit. There is more history with this man and its as bad as Carl's is.

Maria

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Maria,

As said, I too stand by what I said on Christmas day. However, it was an observation and not an edict. I have no position in that.

As to what I had or did not have to do upon leaving GGWO, it was my choice. I have always had a life outside of GGWO, which is another thing that got me in trouble at times. But with my wife's encouragement I sat down for awhile. I had pulpits, outside of GGWO, that I could have preached in, but chose not to. For one thing I felt "fried."

As to any harm I did to you and/or Nancy, I would beg your forgiveness. But at the same time, I would remind you that I took a lot of heat from Nancy's sister running interference between you guys and defending you. And I will never regret that stand with you guys.

Finally, as to imposing, I never went to your home except by invitation, and I ALWAYS enjoyed the fellowship there.

AS to the wedding, please enlighten me by EMail, I am lost on that one.

God bless you,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Ralph,
There was a point where you changed sides in the situation with Nancy's sister -- when I put the block on the phone and Dan Lewis told you to call our house and give direct orders that the block was to come off the phone. Do you remember those 6 p.m. calls EVERY single day? I picked up the phone, swore at you, hung up on you, told you to mind your business, told you to tell Dan Lewis himself that his dialing fingers weren't broke and to call us himself, not to have you do his dirty work for him...WHY did you throw in my face that I was "DISOBEYING" the table of organization when I had a right to put a block on my phone to keep someone from harassing me.

Where did that concern GGWO's table of organization???? It wasn't their business. You never did let up.

Then you stood by the day that Dan Lewis told me to "tell" Nancy "he" wanted to see her, and then told me that this whole thing was my fault, and that I shouldn't come between blood. You know I nailed his ass that day -- and so did a lot of people because you spread it about!! People named YOU as the source of the information center about the situation with Nancy's sister and myself.

Lets start with that since you asked. You changed "sides" after Pastor Palmer died, and together, you, Dan Lewis and her sister made my life at GGWO a living hell.

Maria

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Maria,

You said in your above post:

"If it had been Ed Lutz, or any other pastor besides Paul Stevens that he had made that nasty remark to me on Christmas Day about, nobody would have said a word. But, because it was Paul Stevens, the issue of "man worship" comes up again."

My comments about transferring the inordinate amount of 'man worship' (though I do not like that way of expresing it) from Carl to Paul was not based upon Ralph's remarks.

My comments about this come from others...a good many of whom read but do not post to factnet...who email me and I talk to on the phone. These are old friends who left GG years ago. They have noticed, as have I , a trend in you and others (I address you for you are posting here) this inordinate loyalty toward Paul. This is the same thing we all used to have for Carl, and many see this in your posts. Again...I say "you" because I am addressing you in particular, but it is for many who have spoken about Paul and his church.

While I understand fully wanting to be protective, loyal and many have turned to Paul because he, like they were strong enough to escape GG...it is a potentially dangerous situation for too reasons:

1. Loyalty to any man of God sets up an unhealthy situation for congregant...self explanatory, I think

2. And this is something I think you may not have thought about...if we exalt, praise, or are inordinatly loyal to a man of God, he could turn out to believe the hype like Carl does. It was all the accolades and approbation, some of which he demanded, some of which he engendered that began puffing Carl up in his own eyes. He eventually lost his humility and the pulpit became tainted with his lust for the approbation...see what I mean?

In short, you may be doing more harm than good by being too personally close to or overly praising or defending Paul. It is Christ that one goes to church to develop increased affection for, NOT the pastor. While caring is good, there needs to be less familiarity with him, less groupie-ness if you will.

Hear me now, Maria. I am not scolding. I am only a friend giving a cautionary warning...I would hate to see what happened to Carl happen to Paul. We who were inordinately loyal to Carl assisted him in his self engrandizement, and at this early stage this old pattern can be halted before it gets to be a problem.

Again, I am only saying this to be a friend to both you and Paul. You and most of his congregation and he are newly out of the ministry, and may not be aware of the pattern some of the rest of us see. That would be normal, Maria.

I do hope you will at least consider my words and know they are meant with all honesty, and there are others who see this trend and don't want to see everyone hurt all over again by making the same mistake with Paul.

Roberta

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Thanks RJ. I mean that from my heart.

You are right as a friend. Nobody wants to see what happened to Carl happen to Paul. I am guilty too Roberta. I think part of my defending him (besides the love God has given me for him and his family), is because down deep inside me I don't want to see the same mistakes made again and people being hurt all over. I too fear placing my trust in any man of God again. I just so much wanted him to be vindicated for the things that he did do that were right, and nobody just seemed to take his side other than me and Jeannie for a long time. (Others that did I didn't know their names). I also wanted people to see what I see, that he's trying to do the best that he can. Thats my heart.

I also see your heart in this situation too RJ. I have to admit, I didn't see it this clearly before, to me it always seemed like you were pounding me about him. I do see now how we all were inordinatelly loyal to Carl -- and that did cause his self engrandizement over the years. It is true that many of the congregation at FWM is newly out of GGWO. Some are actually still going to both places. I couldn't see the pattern totally before today RJ.

Thanks for being a friend. We all need to keep him in prayer that the things of the past are truly the past and that his break from his dad's way of doing things continues to produce new ways of doing things before the Lord.

Maria

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

just a note for those that may not know I am not the Nancy that is Maria's roommate. Just wanted to clarify for those that may not know.

Hope you all work this out. God bless.

[maria_t (maria_t)]

My roommate is Nancy Boulette. Having either her or Nancy Curra as a roommate is an honor, they are both beautiful spirit led godly ladies.

This "sister" in question is Kathy Brown.

Maria

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif thank you Maria.

[kirk (kirk)]

Hey POB
Ronaldkirkwood@comcast.net

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

When did Paul Stevens post on here; and how can we get at it? When I did an author search for him it turned up blank.

[maria_t (maria_t)]

After the Alan Lang affair thread was made. Its in the archives, I remember reading the post he made and signed his name to it. I don't remember exactly which thread it was on, Bob. Check the "red paul" one or the Alan Lang thread...those are where I would check first if I was looking for it.

Maria

[anon_brief (anon_brief)]

Bob, try searching the text of the message for his full name.

[yogi (yogi)]

Bob, I think his IP # was 4.139 or 4.159 or something like that. Maria, I remember that post too! He spoke of looking out for his wife and daughter's wellbeing...
Maria, HAVE FWM disaffiliated from Balto GGWO?
I heard mixed reviews.

Yogi

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Yogs.. missed you bear.

FWM is not affiliated with GG Baltimore.

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Yes, Yogi, FWM has disaffiliated with Baltimore Greater Grace church.

So has Pastor Reed's church in New Orleans.

I am not sure about Tim Kelly and Pastor Martel.
Tim Kelly spoke yesterday morning in Baltimore all syrupy "goo goo eyed" about CHS and the ministry.

Pastor Martel spoke an excellent annointed message yesterday on Forgiveness up at FWM. It drove the point home. I am praying about posting it, and, I hope that if he still is affiliated with GGWO Baltimore that he went there and spoke that same message down there. Its one all of us need to hear. It certainly was refreshing and not condemning like CHS's messages on that topic used to be.

Maria

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Yogi, I got your email and replied to it today.

Maria

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Bob...I asked about this and this was sent to me by a friend:

As far as I know Paul Stevens' only Factnet post isback on thread 7 in the 6/27/04 archives. His post is May 17, 2004, IP address 4.139.33.141

That's a couple days after the Baltimore Sun published their article on Factnet.

Paul's 1st message, 10:36 PM:

" I have heard that there is a lot of conversation about me here. In many ways, I thank you, as it has made me draw very near to the Lord for my next breath. I do not know you people and not one of you has come to talk to me alone. My family is hurting and looking to be healed. I have repented for everything I have
done in my life. I have done my very best to make
things right with anyone that I have hurt. I know that many of you do not care for me or for my family. Over the last 8 months especially, we have been hanging by a thread. I will not be writing or reading any of this ever again. I only pray that you will all live by the
message that you so loudly preach here. Consider the ones that you are hurting and wounding. Please. If GGWO decided that they did not want me here anymore, then I would leave. I am not an elder. I am not the successor of this church. I am not even in leadership. By God's grace, I will go forward believing that the
gifts and calling of God are without repentance. My wife is here with me and we pray that you will
understand where we are coming from. I pray for you all. My wife and daughter are my primary focus and will always be."

Paul's 2nd message, 10:37 PM:

"By the way, I am Paul Stevens."

[rhcoderre (rhcoderre)]

Maria, I am interested in where you heard Pastor Martel speak of Forgiveness. I left his church several years ago and I am finally able to speak about all that happened to me and my family. Grace Goapel Church in Swansea disaffiliated with Baltimore, however after a serious split (300 active believers) in 2000/2001 there was talk that Grace Gospel was now "friends of the ministry" and we know what that means. Unfortunately Gerry Martel runs his church much like CHS

[maria_t (maria_t)]

He spoke yesterday at Finished Work Ministries in Havre'de Grace, MD. The church is pastored by Paul Stevens.

Rhcoderre, email me please. I need you to explain something to me about Pastor Martel that I don't want to ask here on Factnet and open up a can of worms.

gracekid2 at aol dot com

Maria

[yogi (yogi)]

Jeannie Bear,

I missed you too! Thanks for the sweet "howdy"!

Yogi

[yogi (yogi)]

...and thanks for the info girls!

Yogi

[yogi (yogi)]

...and Izzy, thanks for the nice warm fuzzy too!

Yogi

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Thanks Roberta. Is Paul's wife Barbara in good health now?

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

yo yo yo! welcome back yogi....

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

I am thinking that when my post number hits 666, I should leave it there. Then one of you alert someone at GGWO that the satanic garbage is alive and well on FN...*LOL* http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Roberta; Someone may call it autistic license, but I love it. Keep going.

[yogi (yogi)]

B-B-B-Bert, glad to hear from you too sweet patootie!

Yogi

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Maria,

Yes, I did say "Do not come between blood." And, as I was told, there was someone in Nancy and Kathy's family who was sick and they wanted to have a line of communication to Nancy. I had no reason to doubt what I was told. However, a call every night at 6PM? Try several days in a row, perhaps three or four.

I have NEVER sided with Kathy Brown against you guys, and for that I was never on Kathy's "favor list." No big deal, as I said I am not asking anyone to like me, but God does require that those of us who name Christ as Savior love one another.

I did not change my stand for you guys when Pastor Palmer died. I have always tried to be a friend to you guys, and still love you both. There was a time of strain between me and you, and for that I take the lions sahre of blame, I was wrong, and for that I am truly sorry. But it had nothing to do with KB, CHS, DL, or anyone else, it was you me and you.

As for me, I am praying for you. (Mt 5:44, Lk 6:28) In fact, I was up praying for you at 6am. All I ask is that God bless you and heal you.

God bless you,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Ralph,
Dr. Lewis first made that "don't come between blood" remark to me that Sunday morning before service started. I was disapointed that you spread it through the body, and kept it going. To me, and to Nancy it wasn't even an issue of who was taking "sides" it was the gossiping (done by you, Dr. Lewis and her sister)...the lies being told (again, you 3), character defamation (primarily Dr. Lewis initiated that with Kathy Brown but then you fed it with your constant remarks about "soul power" attachments).
Ralph you can not fathom or handle the depth of the damage you were equally responsible for doing.

Please. Stop the apologies. Stop the public service announcements here on Factnet that you prayed for me at "such and such" day and time. It only causes people to think you are saying it for attention and recognition. God will honor your prayers if prayed from a sincere heart, which I am not saying one word about that here.

I hear very well from the Holy Spirit. If He leads me to contact you, I will email you. If He shows me you've changed, I'll post it here, considering I posted warning people that being guarded around you is a wise move.

Trust is a different issue. I don't know if that can ever be restored. Far too much damage
has occurred. Its not something that a person can get "over" in a day. We trusted you and y0u violated that trust. Letting us be and leaving us alone to go to God is much better than pushing yourself on us. That is why I had said on that other post that I wasn't going to address you anymore on here.

Give me to God and just honor my wishes to not have contact with you right now. Stop trying to
get my attention with repeated apologies, public prayers, baiting posts, etc. The attention I would give will come out in my flesh and I don't think either one of us would like it, neither would anyone reading or posting here. We all know our weaknesses. You and I know each other's weaknesses well. I am asking you nicely.

Maria

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Ralph,
One thing I will say. You did get mislead easily by Dr. Lewis and Kathy Brown. You were led to believe someone was sick in Nancy's family and that there needed to be a way to get through on our phone line. Truth is, which both David Haines and Bill Alderson can attest to -- Kathy was the only family member whose number we blocked after praying about it. Nancy's parents, other siblings and the rest of her family had 100 percent access 24/7 to our house, and if there was indeed a family emergency, her mother would have called her.

We also had a 2nd line, separate number, listed in Nancy's name. The main line was and is listed under mine. I had a right to block the phone number of anyone who was calling me and harassing me on a repeated basis. It took a 3 way call secretly to Nancy's cell phone so she herself could hear what her sister was saying to me on the phone while Nancy was at work before she agreed to the phone being blocked. It was then up to Nancy to call her sister and this was set up as an agreement with Bill Alderson, and David Haines. Ask them. When and if Nancy was at home and if she opted to take the block off, as long as she dealt with her sister, then it was fine with me. When she left the house, I had a free right to put it back on. It was Nancy's option as to whether or not she removed it when she got home. I didn't speak one word to her about it after our meeting with Bill and Dave about it. Dr. Lewis was also aware of those "terms" and he still had you call here pushing the block being removed anyhow. It wasn't his place, it wasn't GGWO's business. Actually it was nobody's business except for Nancy's and her sister, and me. That is where GGWO overstepped their bounds and butted into people's home lives and helped to trash relationships between family members. You were used to do that Ralph, by that corrupt leadership.

For the record, I am updating this post, after pulling out the log I have kept filed for all these years. When you called 3-4 days a week, 6:00-6:30 p.m. most of those calls were from your house, several were also from GGWO for exactly 3 and 1/2 weeks. I kept a log of it at Pastor Stevens request. I also kept a log of it because it was harassment.

Why would think when someone told you that the situation wasn't your business and to back off, my asking you rudely to tell Dr. Lewis to call himself, my swearing at you, hanging up on you, etc. WHY would you persist in making those calls knowing how I felt?? I know it wasn't right of me to curse at you either, the phone calls made me fell intimidated and very angry.

Don't answer me. Just think about why you did it. No need for another apology or any further explanations. I already know "WHY" you did it.
You need to know why yourself. This isn't being said to hurt you. Its said so you can go to God and He can help you change in that area. It will help you in the long run and it will help your future relationships with people. Even with Nancy and I down the road.

One thing you have not learned, I'm not writing this to be hateful or mean. I had to learn it too being formerly overbearing and pushy with people until the Lord worked a lot of that out of me. When people tell you "NO"..."DON'T CALL ME".."LEAVE ME ALONE"..."DON'T CALL ME SAMMY"....ETC. ETC. ETC. They do mean what they are saying. We all need to honor them and do as they ask, even if we know they don't see our side or our perspective.

You have always had a hard time with this and you take it as personal rejection. I used to do the exact same thing!! Think back, Ralph. Think about what you did to provoke those kind of responses in people. Hey its not easy looking in the mirror, I've done it. My ugly flesh still isn't crucified and I'm not trying to trash you here. I'm pointing things out so you see where I am coming from.

Stop trying to fix things you can't fix!! Let's cultivate that relationship with the Holy Spirit and purpose to be spirit led in what we do or say. I'm speaking to myself here as well for the record.


Maria

p.s. Ralph, I know you were a victim too of this corrupt system. I just need time to get through all of this "junk" and anybody can tell in my posts when I'm having a hard time processing things still. "YOU" are "NOT" to blame for all that happened. They used you and I know they did. I know some things happened that were out of your control too. God is speaking to my heart. Just give me the time I asked for.

(Message edited by maria_t on January 13, 2005)

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Maria,

This will be my last response until/unless you okay further communication.

Just want to say that I agree with all except, I could not have called every night between 6-6:30 from the Church. The only night I stayed after 4:30 at Church was Wednesday nights. I think someone had you on on that one.

So I agree to the "no contact."

Ralph
1cOR 15:10