Who is David Alexander

[minutus (minutus)]

http://www.factnet.org/factnetcgi/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=20957#POST20957

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Thanks so much for posting this!

[muskyrose (muskyrose)]

This was very eye opening to say the least. Makes me wonder how Aimee is doing. Thanks for sharing it.

[david_alexander (david_alexander)]

Hmmm. Actually, Aimee is doing pretty good, under the circumstances. One thing I know; I love her.

It brings back to mind the period in my own life from between the ages of 15 and 21...when I was in total rebellion against my own father. He was a good man, faulty like all of us, but basically a good man and a good father; but he was the authority figure in my life and I gave myself to rebellion. For 6 years I essentially despised him; and if I had written a facnet post back then, I would have said much the same kind of things about him back then.

But as he told me back then.."you may think I don't know anything...but the older you get, the wiser I am going to get"...and he was right.

Perhaps that will be true of Aimee. Perhaps not.

For anyone who is sincere enough to want to know the context of my life....here is my testimony...

----------------------

My Testimony-A Long Journey through falsity
Dear Friends,
My name is David. Born in the fifties, I journeyed through my adolescence in the Counterculture of the late 60s and early 70s; then through the Jesus People Movement of the 70s, through which I became a Christian. In 1979 I was blessed to marry Gloreen, a sweet and beautiful Christian woman, who, like myself, had a desire to live for God. We set out to do the will of God together with high hopes. Shortly after we married, one by one God blessed us with four wonderful children. Heather (the Joyful Spirit) was given to us in 1980. Zachary (Yahweh remembers) was given in 1983. Amy (the Beloved) was given in 1984. Finally, in 1986, Joshua (Yahweh is Salvation) was born. Next to God, our children were our delight.
Our desire from the beginning was to join together for God’s Kingdom and purposes. We wanted to be one with each other and with God and do His will. We wanted to raise our children to excel us in serving God, in the Name of the One who we knew had served, and died, and risen again for us — Jesus, the Son of the Living God. We expected to succeed. We were to be sadly disappointed.
As the head of my household, under Christ, I knew I had an awesome responsibility to lead my family into a life together that would honor God and build His Kingdom. I was determined to be faithful to this. I expected to succeed. God, my wife, and my children were counting on me. I did not want to let them down. I was determined to be a man of integrity, that our unity with God, within ourselves and within our family would be real and true. I was self-deceived.
I also wanted a normal middle-class, self-directed life for my family that would keep my wife happy and allow me to give God a sacrifice from the leftovers. Of course, I didn’t think of it that way at the time. But that is the honest truth of it. I was so deceived that I thought I was whole-hearted! But the sad truth is that my wife and I were double-minded and didn’t even realize it.
How could I have been so deceived as to think that I could radically serve God and still live a middle-class life? How could I be so stupid as to think I could serve self and money, and God at the same time?
Part of the reason is my own wickedness that welcomed being deceived.
The other source of my deception was the Jesus Movement of the 70s. My story is one of hundreds of thousands from that time — stories that have gone untold far too long. Perhaps mine can speak to you.
I had a dream deep in my heart about how to truly serve God. This dream was rooted in desires that God had placed deep in my heart from birth. This dream began to take shape, but then was almost crushed through my youthful experience in the Counterculture.
Raised as a middle-class Catholic boy, my parents were good people who loved me and tried always to do the right thing. In spite of this, as an adolescent I rebelled against middle-class expectations and I discarded my Catholicism. I decided I didn’t want the kind of life I saw my parents living. My experience of Catholicism was that it had no power to cleanse my conscience or enable me to meet the moral expectations that were placed on me.
I found in the 60’s Counterculture a moral compass I thought I could actually follow. “If it feels good, do it” seemed like freedom at first. But at least in the beginning, the Counterculture held out a much more worthy dream than just the pursuit of pleasure. My friends and I wanted to love one another. We wanted to “Make love, Not war”. We wanted to bring peace to the world, not more division. We wanted justice, not exploitation. We wanted to do everything together and share, not compete with each other as individuals. We wanted to be real, and expose the hypocrisy we saw all around us. And we wanted to be a part of something significant, something momentous that could make the world new and better. It seems laughable now, but back then, for a short while, the “Woodstock Nation” seemed very real and possible. We were actually going to set up a new culture, a new nation, in opposition to the one we had rejected. Our hopes soared. Then they crashed and burned. The pursuit of pleasure together was not an ethic capable of making the rest of that dream real. Instead, it destroyed it.
By the time I was 21, I was burned out, torn up, lonely, and hopeless. Then in 1976 the Jesus People came to my hometown of Olympia, Washington. This particular group was from a ministry called Gospel Outreach. They had begun in Eureka, California, with a handful of young, burned-out druggies who had become Christians in the early days of the Jesus Movement. This handful of young men had gone to a local real estate broker, Jim Durkin, looking for a place to establish an outreach to the hippies. A former Assemblies of God pastor, he was leading a small Pentecostal church in addition to selling real estate and building up his own real estate holdings.
Jim gave these young men a place to establish an outreach in one of his broken-down buildings. In time, the leader of the group left. Those that remained asked Jim Durkin to be their “elder”. He agreed, and after some time he acquired an abandoned Coast Guard station south of Eureka, which they dubbed the “Lighthouse Ranch”. The young men moved their outreach ministry to the Ranch. This small community exploded in size, drawing in hundreds of the multitudes of counterculture young people that were constantly traveling though the area hitchhiking the Pacific Coast Highway. The Ranch would send out people to pick up hippie hitchhikers and bring them to the Ranch for the night. There they were introduced to a Jesus very different from the one they had known in the middle-class homes they had been raised in.
This Jesus, like them, was a rebel determined to expose the hypocrisy and unreality of the religious leaders and institutions of His day. He was so effective in exposing their hypocrisy that they tortured Him to death. This Jesus loved justice and mercy and wanted to set people free. He promised forgiveness of sin and eternal life to all who would believe in Him. Over the course of three years several thousand of these hippies responded to Jim Durkin’s version of the gospel — the standard Charismatic Evangelical Christian message with an additional “discipleship” step added in order to appeal to the radicalism of these counterculture young people.
They sent out dozens of groups of these young people to establish communities in other places, bringing their version of the gospel with them. Some of them came to Olympia. They set up a Gospel Outreach house called the House of Mercy on one of the town’s busiest streets. In June 1976, in despair, I walked into their home looking for someone to talk to. They looked like freaks, just like me. They lived together and shared everything. Unlike any Christians I had known, they seemed real. They seemed radical and outside of the Establishment. All of this completely disarmed me. They preached their gospel to me, and I accepted it.
What was this gospel they preached? Realize that you are a sinner, confess your sins to God, and ask His forgiveness based on the fact that Christ died for your sins, and ask Jesus to come into your heart. Do this, and God will forgive you, give you His Holy Spirit, and write your name in the Book of Life. Overwhelmed with guilt and despair, I gave my life to God according to this gospel.
I cried, and had a huge sense of release. Then I went home to the house I was renting. When I got there, I realized that I didn’t want to be alone. I wanted to be with those who had led me to God. I went back the next day and told them I really wanted to do more than I had done. It didn’t seem right that Christ had poured out His life for me, and all I had done was ask Jesus to come into my heart and forgive me. In response, they proclaimed to me to Gospel Outreach version of Christian discipleship.
Once you were saved, if you wanted to become a whole-hearted follower of Jesus, you had to be willing to deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow Him. You had to forsake everything you owned by giving it to Gospel Outreach and move in with them and live in community according to the pattern in Acts 2 & 4. You should then “obey them that have the rule over you” and serve the Body in whatever way you were asked. Together, the disciples would “go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature,” and then Jesus would return.
In addition, Jim Durkin was one of God’s true Apostles, sent in restoration of the government of God outlined in Ephesians 4:11. True discipleship was only possible under the authority of the government of God. Of course, all of this was for those who wanted to go an optional “second mile”, and be “disciples”, not just saved “believers”.
Having realized that Jesus gave everything for me, it seemed completely reasonable to take the second step and pay the price to be a disciple. I went home, got my stuff, gave it all and moved in the next day. For the next eighteen months, I lived as a single brother in community with 70 other people. I gave myself to serving as best I could in whatever way I was asked. I found it a wonderful way to live. There were problems and messes and chaos at times. But we were together and it seemed back then that we could get through anything as long as we hung onto God and each other. My hopes for a meaningful life rose to the heavens during that time.
There were about 2,000 people scattered through the different branches of Gospel Outreach. Similar things happened in dozens, even hundreds of other groups, to hundreds of thousands of young people. For a while, it seemed we had recaptured the reality of the early Christians of the Book of Acts.
In spring of 1978, I was sent to Phoenix by way of Eureka to help plant a new community there. When I stopped in Eureka on the way, I discovered that Jim Durkin had not forsaken his own real estate holdings. On the contrary, he was buying old fixer-upper homes on the cheap, having the disciples fix them up, and then charging them high rent to live in them. Fish rot from the head down.
When I got to Phoenix a week later I found that Gospel Outreach had decided that forsaking all and living in community was limiting our effectiveness in reaching the lost. It was isolating us from the rest of Christianity. The elders had already gotten their own homes, and staked out territories for their own personal businesses that the rest of us were expected to stay out of. We sheep who had arrived later were free to live together if we wanted, but it was optional now.
Very quickly the life we had signed up for virtually disappeared. All of the strong that had been supporting the weak left community life to seek selfish gain as middle-class Christians. The weak that needed care all scattered into the wilderness of society, completely disillusioned. What was left was just another extremely small sect among 50,000 plus Christian sects. Within a few months, I left “G.O.” for a large Charismatic church. To be honest, I welcomed the opportunity to imitate my “Apostle” and “elders” in their belief that we could leave community and self-denial, and pursue self-directed and selfish middle-class lives while still being disciples of Jesus. This all proves that I, and those I was following, were self-deceived and did not have the Holy Spirit.
What is astounding and tragic is that the most idealistic young people of that whole generation, who had dreams of Countering the Culture that they rightly despised, were cast into disillusionment or diverted into a totally hypocritical middle-class Christian life — a life that you could not have forced them into at the point of a gun in the beginning. They were deceived by wolves in “Apostles” and “Pastors” clothing who attracted them with cheap counterfeits.
Within a few years, through the ministries of men such as Chuck Smith, John Wimber, and Jim Durkin, all but one little seed of this explosion of hunger for God was diverted into either despair or a middle-class Christianity different from the World only in pretense. Only one man received and held onto the truth, which he began to faithfully and quietly pass on to those willing to do God’s will. As for the rest of us, the weak perished while the strong were killed inside by the cares of life and the deceitfulness of riches. Their dreams either died completely or they experienced the constant condemnation of knowing that the middle-class Christian lives they were living were completely false and outside of the will of God.
I was one of those who experienced condemnation, but not at first. In my first self-confident flush of freedom from the burden of having to pour my life out for the weak, I met Gloreen, the woman who became my wife. At that point I had no idea of the war I was in for. I actually thought that God was with me. Not only did I still consider myself to be saved, I thought of myself as a radical and a real disciple because of my experiences. It was in this state of self-deception that I confidently got married, expecting to successfully pursue middle-class living and still be a true disciple of Jesus whose life would bear good fruit in my wife, my children and the Kingdom of God. I was strong and not really disillusioned at this point. The collapse of the Jesus Movement’s radicalism may have caused the weak to perish, but I was one of the strong ones. I was so wicked that I was glad it fell apart, apart from a superficial nostalgia for the more pleasant aspects of it. Now I could do my own will, pursue a comfortable lifestyle, and still do the will of God.
Within a short time after I married, my conscience began to gnaw at me. I realized the huge Charismatic Church we attended was a joke. When we attended a young married class, and the associate pastor justified abortion and gross sexual perversions within marriage, I could not go back. I left, and took my wife with me. Within a year, three of the pastors at that church had divorced their wives. I then began a twenty-three year search for a people and a Holy Nation that could give my conscience peace. I knew I had to find a City that had foundations, whose builder and maker was God, or there was no hope for my wife, my children, or me. In my folly, I expected my search to be easy. After all, I was an Evangelical Christian. Evangelicalism’s pride and boast is that the only rule for Faith and Practice is the Word of God, and what I was looking for was plainly in the Word of God, so it must exist in Evangelical Christianity! These are a few of the Scriptures that drove me, and the measuring stick that everything that I found fell short of:
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34-35)
“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that you sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one; I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent me, and have loved them as You have loved me.” (John 17:20-23)
Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. The multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need. (Acts 2:42-47; 4:32-35)
True love, true unity, and true community, with genuinely apostolic servant leadership and vision. Self-evident fruit of the Gospel, it seemed to me. I expected it to be easy to find at first. I moved my family 11 times over the next 23 years, taking my family under my leadership through almost 20 different groups and movements that claimed to offer what I hoped for. I would find a group that promised apostolic authority, community, love and reality… throw my life and family into it, and then get crushingly disappointed. This happened over and over and over again. Over a period of 23 years of marriage, I tried to find within Christianity anything that could truly measure up to the simple standard of the Word.
Three separate times I grew so hopeless of finding anything real that I took the wicked step of trying to bring it into birth myself, starting at different times a “street level outreach”, an “urban neighborhood community church”, and an “apocalyptic rural Christian Commune.” I knew deep down I was in no spiritual condition to genuinely help anyone; it was the blind leading the blind all over again. I was unable to proclaim the true gospel because I had never received it or obeyed it myself, much less been sent from a People that had.
What I found, over and over again, were groups of Christians trying to pretend that they could be disciples of Jesus without completely abandoning their lives. The few groups that asked for surrender and full community were obviously outside of the purposes of God. An example of this is the Bruderhof communities’ idea of building the Kingdom. They picket and march to try to get civil authority to abolish capital punishment for murderers, which is clearly ordained by God. The devil laughs at them, and uses them to divert potential sheep from the true way.
The most common thing I found was the same thing I was guilty of. False apostles and so-called leaders who represent to hungry hearts that they can be saved, follow Christ, and experience the love, unity, and community of God apart from utterly abandoning themselves to the One who utterly abandoned Himself for them. They represent that it is possible to keep ones self-will and selfish middle-class, individualistic existence, and still build God’s true Kingdom and Nation. In my own wicked desire to believe it was possible to save my life and still not lose it, I allowed myself to be fooled by this again and again. But God is true, though every church on earth be proved a liar.
Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate has father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.And whoever does not bear his cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. So, likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple. Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor….it is neither fit for the land nor the dunghill. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! (Luke 14:25-27,33-35)
According to the very words of Jesus, the most radical, self-congratulatory groups in all of Christianity are not even fit for the dunghill. What is not even fit for the dunghill is so worthless that it is thrown into the fire. The amazing fact is that out of the whole Jesus Movement that touched millions of lives back then, only one man truly had the ears and anointing to hear and keep these words of the Gospel, understand them, and put them into practice, along with the rest of God’s Word. He and his brothers deserve to be heard, above all the people on the earth. They and only they can prove the reality of the Gospel they preach by a demonstration of the Spirit’s Power as specified by John 17:21-23.
Of course, I got what I deserved. I tried to save my life and almost lost it. I tried to serve God and money and deceived myself. I even became a deceiver myself. I lost most of my family. I utterly wasted the best years of my adult strength.
At first, my wife and children believed me when I told them the Kingdom of God was the most important thing on earth, that it was the only thing that had eternal reality. But they could not help but see that every time I claimed to have found God’s Kingdom, it turned out to be a mirage. They could not help but see the hypocrisy in my life and the life I led them and others into. Gradually they lost respect for me and even began to hate me. My nice Christian family façade that I used to keep my conscience at bay (How could I be lost? See what good children I have?) finally crumbled completely this year. Three of my four children no longer listen to me or have any respect for me. To some extent they actually hate me, and with good reason. My wife is torn up and confused beyond measure. Only one of my four children can I still speak honestly with and know that she listens. But I know of a certainty that I would have soon lost even that last decent family relationship, and perhaps my marriage and my life. I was teetering on the brink of utter destruction behind my successful Christian businessman and family man façade. Then, on November 21, 2002, I came upon the Twelve Tribes website. The name seemed weird, but I was so desperate that I pushed past that. What I found astounded me. I read and read, and grew more amazed. I wrote four e-mails to them that night. To my amazement, they wrote right back and invited me to a large wedding of two of their young people to be held on the next Saturday.
My daughter and I drove 200 miles to the wedding. Within 30 minutes after I walked in, I was utterly undone. For the first time in 48 years on this earth, I saw the Gospel and the Kingdom of God in real demonstration of the love of John 13:35, the unity of John 17:21, the life of Acts 2 & 4, and the good government of Ephesians 4:11. They preached the true Gospel to me in the power of the Spirit. I believed in it, and will forever. In obedience to the true Gospel, the one that unlike all the others is actually found in the Gospels, I have surrendered myself utterly to God to serve Him where He is — with His people and nowhere else.
As for this people I have joined myself to, the powers of this World accuse them of being deceivers.


But they said the same about Jesus. If you have an
honest heart, you will know their Gospel is true as soon as I say it, whatever men may say. It is simply this: eternal life comes from obeying the Gospel of Yahshua which requires utter abandonment to serve the One who utterly abandoned Himself for you, and to serve Him where He is, in His holy people, where God’s love, unity, community, and good government reign and His will is truly done on earth as it is in heaven.
Anything else is a lie. Seek this people out and see for yourselves. Enter in the narrow gate while you still can. There is no time to waste.
Just in case you think that I didn’t look hard enough to find something real in Christianity, here is a list of the deceitful counterfeits I fought through or was responsible for myself before being convicted and transformed through real repentance, forgiveness, baptism, and being sealed with the Holy Spirit through this people. I am a new man. For the first time in my life I have a clear conscience and the power to do the will of God with my brothers, rather than try and fail alone. I also searched the whole earth constantly via the Internet for six years and checked out dozens of other groups through it.
1. The Roman Catholic Church
2. Gospel Outreach (Jim Durkin)
3. The Valley Cathedral, Phoenix, Arizona
4. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal
5. The Sword of the Spirit Covenant Communities (Steve Clark and Ralph Martin)
6. The Servants of Christ the King Covenant Community (Rev. M. Scanlon and Keith Fournier)
7. The Evangelical Presbyterian Church
8. The Door Christian Fellowship, Wintersville, Ohio (David Alexander)
9. People of Destiny International, now Sovereign Grace International (C. J. Mahaney, Larry Tomczak, etc.)
10. Southside Church, Virginia Beach, VA (Steve Shank)
11. The Restoration of the Tabernacle of David Praise Movement
12. The Vineyard Churches (John Wimber)
13. Metro Vineyard/Kansas City Prophets (Mike Bickle)
14. The Toronto Blessing
15. The Bruderhof Communities (Eberhard Arnold)
16. The Hutterian Brethren Churches
17. Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland
18. Times Square Church (David Wilkerson)
19. Broken Chains International (Scott Dixon)
20. Abundant Life Church (David Alexander)
21. The Open Church/House Church Movements
22. The Seventh Day Baptists
23. The Seventh Day Adventists
24. The Messianic Jewish movement
25. The Sacred Names movement
26. Decoding Revelation/www.Beastwatch.com (http://www.Beastwatch.com) (David Alexander)
27. Katahdin Community Church (David Alexander)
28. The Calvary Chapel Movement (Chuck Smith)
For Community locations or more information call:
The TWELVE TRIBES (1-888-893-5838)
www.twelvetribes.com (http://www.twelvetribes.com)

-------------------------

So you see, Small One, I hate my fleshly life more than Aimee does....and to have actually have found a way to really be saved, in a way that is totally transforming....and has filled my life with real, satisfying relationships with God, His Son, the Spirit, the Word, and more brothers and sisters than I can count....and on top of all that, be experiencing true, good, godly authority for the first time in my life.....you will just have to excuse me if I cannot contain my enthusiasm.

Of course, for the majority of you out there who actually like your christianity as you are currently experiencing it.....why should you care one fig what I am saying? You shouldn't. Especially in light of the fact that I have been a miserable failure in my life up till two years ago in all the things I valued most; love, unity and community...

But I am only here shouting from the housetops because I have found a Gospel that truly saves...if you hate your life in this world, I know a place you can go to die to self and live to God, in Spirit and in Truth. You can still find the love, unity and community of the Spirit, even if you have been trying and failing for 25 years like I did. There is STILL HOPE!!!

That's good news...even for Aimee...and some day she may realize it.

Peace, david

www.TheLitmusTest.org (http://www.TheLitmusTest.org)

[susanna_krizo (susanna_krizo)]

Aimee's account of her father sounded like pure GG doctrine: if you don't do what the "pastor" (in her case the head of the family) tells you to do, you are labeled as going against God and His will. And it seems that it is always a very confused man's will that determines the will of God insted of letting God let His will be known. Uprooting people for the sake of the ministry (father's wishes) and ignoring the feelings of the church (family) members are also found in GG.
It seems that cults are led by people who are completely unable to see beyond their own noses (as as a saying in Finland goes) and sadly they think everyone else is always wrong. There is really no other explanation because a person who is in in his right mind cannot read the Bible and treat people in the way these men do.

Susanna

[minutus (minutus)]

Bloviation, obfuscation, decussation ...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

D. Alexander you said on another thread:

"I have no interest in justifying myself."

Then stop doing so, and stop doing so here. Haven't you caught on? We don't trust you, you have nothing to add to our walk with God, you have no clue as to what we are about and we don't appreciate your ridiculously obvious efforts to recruit the wounded from this soul eating cult we have left to join yours.

No one gives a rats ass about you, your beliefs, your needs for followers, your phoney sincerity etc etc. Many of these people are victims, they need NOT to be pressured into listening to a double talking charletan like you.

You have been exposed for the fool you are by the wise men and women of God on this board. If you contnue to insist upon flaunting your lies and bull**** here, I will contact FactNet and ask that you be removed.

I have received a number of emails from young people who are very confused and more than a little frightened by your continued pressure here. Sell your line of good elsewhere.

I will NOT put up with you possibly hurting the people who look to this board about Greater Grace for help and finding your lies which confuse and are NOT what these people need.

You have been warned. I am not going to let you hurt these kids, do you hear me? They have been through hell, and you are making things worse.

I cannot let you hurt them. Stop...stop now.

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Thanks, minutus for finding that posting.

I stand with you RJ any help you need getting rid of this dirtball I'll be glad to help.

His type of theology none of us need.

Maria

[minutus (minutus)]

Methinks he doth protest too much.

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

I wsh he's do his prtesting elsewhere too...*s* Ugh

[jim_faucett (jim_faucett)]

Aimee writes:
I have been reading some of the governmental files from the 2002 Intertribal meeting on the yahoo groups site for the TT. I have never in my life heard or come across anything as bizarre. What kind of group has annual meetings to decide how many times members are supposed to have sex every week??? If anyone who hasn't had the chance to read these files, do. Go to Yahoo Groups and find Twelve_Tribes_Teachings. Then go to file, then Governmental file, the find Spring 2002 Intertribal Meeting. The comments I just made are referenced on pages 74-77.

"good godly authority?"

HO HO HO

[wildgrape (wildgrape)]

My name is Jeff Carson. I knew David Alexander personally for a period of just under 3 years. During this time I was a co-Pastor in ministry and also in business with David Alexander. What I present here is first hand knowledge of the character of this man. I'm sorry, did I say character? What was I thinking? This man has no character. So I will just present some of what I know of him.

Before I relate what I know of the man, I want to make it clear that I have no axe to grind. David Alexander, this is not about anything between you and I so don't get your skivvies in a bunch while you read this (you have started wearing skivvies and using deodorant I hope). I let all that go long, long ago. This is about the young people who looked to you as a father figure and were robbed by you. This is about all the people here in Cradock you deceived and wounded and < wild claim or unsubstantiated ad hominem deleted by admin >. I stayed here in Portsmouth and helped people pick up the shattered pieces of their lives, those you did your dirty work on. Some survived, some did not. This is especially for the babes in Christ whom you killed with your words, who have since rejected the things of God because of you. You made them dependent on you for everything, and when they wouldn't obey your every whim you pulled the rug out from under their feet and moved on to do the same thing elsewhere.

David Alexander has always said that he has a clear conscience, and I honestly believe him. Every sociopath has a clear conscience, because they have no conscience. But, since this is the pattern of David Alexander's life, destroying lives then moving on to somewhere else to destroy more lives. I will relate my experiences in order to serve as a warning to others.

When you first meet David Alexander he seems genuine and sincere. He presents himself as just a regular guy who is seeking God, but for some reason or another just doesn't fit in traditional Christian circles. (a common thread for many Christians) As you get to know him he begins to open up a little and talks about all his trials and troubles in his quest for the God life. (also a common theme) Then the good stuff starts to come out, he talks about all the people who have done him wrong. (He does a great job presenting himself as a victim, even now I'm getting a little misty eyed) And when you're in ministry and business with him he'll even tell you some of his secret sins. (No David, I'm not talking about picking your nose and eating it.) But, it's only after the fact and you've finally parted company with this guy that you realize it wasn't those other folks who did him wrong. It was David Alexander doing them wrong!

David Alexander is a man submitted to no one in anyway. His teachings went from being fairly normal legalism to bizarre fare like "It's God's Devil" Wherein he proclaimed that the devil was God's most obedient servant. I still haven't figured that one out since it flies in the face of orthodox Christian teaching. Others in ministry that he asked about it (myself included) told him it wasn't sound doctrine but he ran with it anyway. Hey David, why don't you run that one by the folks who read these discussion boards and see if they will buy into it? Better yet, see if you can sell it to Ten Tribes.

Like his spiritual fathers the Judaisers and Gnostics. (Aw shucks, I'll throw the Pharisees in here too because they just loved to heap burdens upon the people they couldn't bear.) David Alexander has always added something to Jesus. David Alexander is a "Jesus Plus" kind of guy. Jesus + community, Jesus + the Ten Commandments, Jesus + keeping the Sabbath (except that part in Isaiah 58 because it wouldn't allow him to play on Saturday), Jesus + the secret correct hidden name of God, (anyone got a decoder ring?) Jesus + works of any kind he could dream up, if he thought he could get people to buy into circumscision he'd go for it too. And let's not forget the newest addition to the this, "The Litmus Test" Ten Tribes propaganda. Why? Because the man does not know the grace of God!

David Alexander is an < wild claim or unsubstantiated ad hominem deleted by admin > man... understand that I do not say this lightly. Not once in the few years I knew him did he ever exhibit the Fruit of the Spirit. There was no genuine love, joy or peace with this guy, and there certainly was no mercy or longsuffering. He treated people leaving his ministry as if they were a bowel movement. The way he explained it was, "A healthy body has to relieve itself of waste." An interesting thought, so people leaving are considered excrement? Hey Dave, do you think Jesus saw them as excrement?

With David Alexander every act of benevolence or humility was contrived so that in some way it would benefit him, either by being able to justify himself when things go bad (which he does ad nauseum) or as a means of controlling the weak. I can hear him whimpering now as he reads this saying, "Brother, you can't judge my heart", Ok David, I'll give you that one, even though your heart is as black as coal, or was that blacker than the inside of a cow? Anyway, Jesus said, "Judge a tree by it's fruit." Good tree, good fruit. Bad tree, bad fruit. I may not be able to judge the heart of David Alexander, but a tree is known by it's fruit and there is only bad fruit from this man and there is no fruit that remains. He lays waste to eveything he sets his hand to. Hey David, of the people here who knew you. There isn't a one among the bunch that really longs to see your face again. One fellow whom you treated rather badly (while you were laying your life down for him) said he would like to rip your head off and use your neck for a latrine, go figure. (Had to clean that one up a little bit) Obviously he still has some issues with you.

Hey David Alexander, I read your sad story about what happened to you in Maine. I am curious as to whether you have witnesses to your version of events? After all, everything needs to be established in the mouth of two or three witnesses. Oh, and just some food for thought. Did you ever once think that what happened to you in Maine might have been recompense for the way you treat people? No...?, I didn't think so. But just in case you haven't heard. "... God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows, that he also will reap." You might want to keep that in mind while you go about laying down your life for people.

Anyway, after years of praying for David Alexander and giving him the benefit of the doubt, trying to believe he was just some poor misguided fool. I finally realized that he is exactly what he preached, "One of the wicked made for punishment." David Alexander doesn't even rate being a false prophet as some have called him before. Simply put, David Alexander is now, and forever will be a wolf in sheep's clothing.

David Alexander, there awaits a millstone with your name on it!

(Message edited by admin on December 31, 2004)

[wildgrape (wildgrape)]

PS. Now we all get to hear from David Alexander explain how he laid down his life for everyone here, especially for me. I can hear the violins now, as he says, "Brother, how can you say such things? All I ever did was lay down my life for you and teach you my craft." David, the only sacrifices you ever made were in order to buy people so that you could control them. Remember, one of your favorite verses: "Make friends by the mammon of unrighteousness for yourselves..." Did you forget it was followed up by: "Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will entrust the true riches to you?" David Alexander, if you weren't such a fraud you would have understood the true riches are the people. Yet you turned your back on every last person that you "laid down your life for" as soon as they wouldn't be bought by you anymore. One of the best days of my life was the day I put you off of my front porch and bid you never to return.

Oh, and one more thing David Alexander. Your craft that you are so boastful of- the work you do is just as shallow and as flimsy as you are.

[minutus (minutus)]

Hey Jeffy, welcome to the David Alexander "cloud of witnesses."

[david_alexander (david_alexander)]

A lot of what Jeff says about me is lies...he is totally sold out to the "name it and claim it" theology of Kenneth Hagin and Ken Copeland. Now if there ever were two men headed for the Lake of Fire, they are. I refused to let him sell that crap in the church I pastored...so he left the church and tried to take everyone with him.

Anyway, the fact is, God will judge us all; and I know where I stand. I finally found the truth that really sets men free; and it is NOT calvinism, or haginism. It is utterly surrendering to the One who utterly surrendered Himself for you, in His holy people; and I didn't give up my life to Yahshua because I love it...or thought I was what I need to be...but rather, because I hated it, and wanted to be saved. It is not the healthy that need a physican. Thankfully, the truth and teaching on www.TheLitmusTest.org (http://www.TheLitmusTest.org) is powerful enough to save even a wretch like me. Nothing else could, that's for sure. I tried everything else I could find.

Anyway, what I am going to do is urge one of my brothers to post here; you all have successfully made me the issue; and I am not interested in being the issue here. The objective Word of God is the only real issue; all I am is a donkey, a rock, or whatever. I will urge my friends to come on here and continue to post our perspective on things. Fortunately they have no such issues as I seem to. So you will have to deal with what we say, rather than shift everything to ad hominim attacks on me personally.

Merry Christmas?

David

[karen (karen)]

Jeff, I was struck by this part of your response:

"David Alexander has always added something to Jesus. David Alexander is a "Jesus Plus" kind of guy. Jesus + community, Jesus + the Ten Commandments, Jesus + keeping the Sabbath (except that part in Isaiah 58 because it wouldn't allow him to play on Saturday), Jesus + the secret correct hidden name of God, (anyone got a decoder ring?) Jesus + works of any kind he could dream up, if he thought he could get people to buy into circumscision he'd go for it too. And let's not forget the newest addition to the this, "The Litmus Test" Ten Tribes propaganda. Why? Because the man does not know the grace of God!"

That is exactly what troubled me about Mr. Alexander's contributions on this site. And I wondered why no one else addressed it. Thanks for your input.

-Karen

[minutus (minutus)]

Nice touch, Doris. Please Dave, send your demon-infested "brothers." We shall taunt them a second time as well and maybe fart in their general direction. My apologies to Monty Python...

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

"Anyway, the fact is, God will judge us all; and I know where I stand."

Good, fine, whatever...now go away...go "stand" elsewhere.

By the way, I have reported to FactNet that you are causing trouble for the victims of the GG cult by your repeated lies put forth here and for recruitment of these wounded people. You should be ashamed of yourself...but wait, I forgot...cult leaders/followers HAVE NO SHAME.

(Message edited by Rjfernalld on December 24, 2004)

[doris (doris)]

minutus...lol!

Who is David Alexander, or WHAT is David Alexander...freaky deaky.

"I know where I stand" - yes in a pile of cow dung dearie.

[wildgrape (wildgrape)]

Doris you ask:

"Who is David Alexander, or WHAT is David Alexander"

David Alexander is the spawn of < wild claim or unsubstantiated ad hominem deleted by admin >, his entire motivation is to sow seeds of division among the believers everywhere he goes. Just look at the list places he rattled off in his post above, kind of reminds you of Satan roaming the earth as expressed in the 1st chapter of Job doesn't it? He preys on the weak and then devours them. You all have judged right even before I posted on here that he is spreading something other than the Gospel.

David Alexander you picked the wrong neighborhood to prowl for victims this time. Now go back to your snake pit, get yourself some comfort food and trouble these people no more!

Now where did I put that jawbone of an ass?

(Message edited by admin on December 31, 2004)

[minutus (minutus)]

As Ernest Angley would say, "Come OUT!"

[boss_martian (boss_martian)]

Giving your life over to Jesus does NOT require anyone to give their life over to a man.

Hey Dave, when I sell my ****, who do I make the check out to? You? Or do you prefer cash?

Seriously, who gets the money when one of your victims sells their possessions?

[louise_connolly (louise_connolly)]

Looks like we got a Mega troll! This bozo is really trying to distract from discussing the cult named GGWO. Forget my usual "PP SER" conspiracy thougts concerning trolls. It is comical that this guy is overlapping onto our discussion board with his baloney. The GGWO trolls must be loving it. I have been to busy for Factnetting this past few days, is David Alexander also Daved or Davidd on another thread?

I read the link to David Alexander's daughter's posts and my heart wept for what those poor children went through with this horrible father. He is right up there with Mike Walsh, (one of the worst fathers ever) who is still covered by GGWO because he is a devout worshipper of Carl Stevens.

[doug (doug)]

RE: The above post by DAVID ALAXANDER
This is a teaching from the communities Apostle "Yoneq", otherwise known as Eugene Elbert Spriggs, that David Alaxander in his above post is prosletising for.

For more info see "Twelve Tribes" on this web site.

<font color="ff0000">Execution of Justice
(Letter from Elbert concerning discipline and the seed of Abraham)
The reason Isaac was so willing to let his father sacrifice him was because he had
been raised his whole life knowing that he did not belong to himself, but belonged to his
father, and he was not living for himself, but living for his father. Hephzibah is coming to
understand that she is living for her father and belongs to him. The other day she was
having great difficulty being obedient to his command: not to suck her thumb in bed.
Elbert asked her to stick out her thumb because he was going to cut it off. He took a
huge pair of scissors and came toward her. She was terrified, but (after receiving her
discipline) she willingly stuck out her thumb to be cut off rather than let it cause her to
stumble in her obedience to her father. Elbert didn’t actually cut it off, but he wants
Hephzibah to understand that it is better to have your hand cut off now rather than later.
He wants her to be saved.
It is absolutely necessary to raise our children to know that they do not belong to
themselves, but to their father. How else can they believe that they don’t belong to
themselves except by training them as our Heavenly Father trains us to believe this. We
only “regain our true life” if we lose our false and criminal life. Whoever wants to save
Execution of Justice Page 6
1900.00.16-L01.DOC 020612.1326
his life will lose it, and whoever loses it for My sake shall find it. Abraham received back
the promise only after he had killed his only son the only son who could bring about the
promise. Abraham had faith to surrender his only heir. Abraham was tested. He endured
under trial to see whether he would obey (Heb 11:17-19; Gen 22:1; Jms 1:12). Abraham
obeyed by faith for he heard God say, “Abraham, take your son, your only son Isaac,
whom you love, and go sacrifice him.”
The error of “the local church” and many churches is in allowing doctrine to
substitute for obedience. We can do as they say, but not as they do, for they do not truly
discern the Body of Messiah though they have much wonderful doctrine. Without seeing
Gen 18:19, the Body of Messiah doesn’t make sense.</font>
Note: Elbert is not the little girls father but is the apostle of the community. I don't see a close resemblance to his lying to a little girl and teaching the faith that Abraham had in Isaac.

[doug (doug)]

David responded on Dec 21
<font color="0000ff">I don't know anything about the above...but I DO KNOW that the truth that sets men free can be found at www.TheLitmusTest.org (http://www.TheLitmusTest.org)
It is for Christians Only. Truth will always be attacked. Those who are wise will not be put off by such things. The fact is, anyone who wants to see the fruit of our lives can visit us at anytime; and see that our children are some of the most wonderful on the whole earth. As the Word says, "wisdom is justified by her children". Sincerely, david</font>

My reply Dec 22
David
<font color="0000ff">I don't know anything about the above…</font>
Are you saying you don't know if Spriggs taught that and if it is one of the communities teachings or you don't know if there is anything wrong with what was alleged in the teaching CD that Jacob took from the community?

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Thanx for posting this doug.

[minutus (minutus)]

"I have been to busy for Factnetting this past few days, is David Alexander also Daved or Davidd on another thread?"

Two different people, Louise. Hope you had a wonderful Christmas.

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Dave...can you post your email addy? I need to talk to you please about something.
or email me? srfern@verizon.net
Thanx

[wildgrape (wildgrape)]

Doris,
Yep, you ex GGWO types are pretty good at spotting the snakes. For better or for worse, I just kept giving the guy the benefit of the doubt until the time finally arrived when God said to move on out of "Dave's Church" AKA "The Church of Dave" as it became known in these parts.

Louise Connolly,
David Alexander didn't just treat his own children poorly. He actually told people in his church they needed to put their children (teenagers) out because their behavior made their parents house out of order. They did not follow his wishes and stood their ground against him. That's the difference love makes!

Mama always said, "You can tell alot about a person by the way they treat children and animals."

[yahshua (yahshua)]

Luke 14:25 ¶ Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them,
Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it—
Luke 14:29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,
Luke 14:30 saying, “This man began to build and was not able to finish.’
Luke 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?
Luke 14:32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace.
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:34 ¶ “Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned?
Luke 14:35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

You who claim to know Me, and yet do not do the things that I say, you are liars and the truth is not in you.

You who love the world and the things that are in the world, and yet claim to know me, the love of my Father is not in you.

You who malign my true servants, and call evil good, and good evil, will be recompensed according to your works.

You who live contented with your form of dead godliness and yet deny the life of love lived by my true servants in the Twelve Tribes; who dare mock what you do not even know; there is no fear of God before your eyes. You certainly already have your reward.

But you who hunger to know Me, and serve Me with your whole heart; who hate your lives in this wicked world, and in the wicked religious systems such as find voice through the empty wells on this board...you can find my Way, my Truth and my Life rightly divided at www.TheLitmusTest.org (http://www.TheLitmusTest.org)

[doug (doug)]

This is what happened on the 12 tribes thread. Whenever they were hit with a question they couldn't answer the names and tactics changed.
In MPD people who were severely traumatised do this.

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

http://www.twelvetribes.com/whoweare/ourbeginnings3.html

Sounds like another cult beginning to me but I am not prepared to sit in judgement of people who purely and simply love the Lord and want to serve Him.

Not sure how they raise their finances which would probably give more insight. But anyway for those of you who want to know what Yashuwa and David Alexander are selling here, above is a link to the beginning.

Sounds actually somewhat similar to how GG started too. Hippies, teens, one leader...

David it would be kinder if you would make your own site on Factnet and not intrude on the GG site unless you were a long time member in GG you really have nothing to offer us here.

God bless you in your walk with Him, just walk with Him in another garden. Thank you for your consideration in advance and take your friend Yashuwa with you.

[yahshua (yahshua)]

Mark 3:22 ¶ And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebub,” and, “By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.”
Mark 3:23 ¶ So He called them to Himself and said to them in parables: “How can Satan cast out Satan?
Mark 3:24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
Mark 3:25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
Mark 3:26 And if Satan has risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end.
Mark 3:27 No one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house.
Mark 3:28 ¶ “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;
Mark 3:29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
Mark 3:30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”
Mark 3:31 ¶ Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him.
Mark 3:32 And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are outside seeking You.”
Mark 3:33 ¶ But He answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, or My brothers?”
Mark 3:34 And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers!
Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.”

My People, my sent ones, that I have raised up, speak my words in Spirit and Truth, and surrender all to make them enfleshed; and you dare to mock them as evil? You should carefully consider their words, which are but My Word, rightly divided; and see the Life they live that is but My Words enfleshed; before you carelessly consign yourselves to a portion with those who would blaspheme what My Spirit is doing in these last days of this age.

The Way to My Way can be found at www.TheLitmusTest.org (http://www.TheLitmusTest.org)

[yahshua (yahshua)]

I say to my true followers, they are blessed when men say all manner of evil against them falsely for the sake of My Name, for in the same way evil men spoke against the prophets that were before them. They are to rejoice and leap for joy, for great is their reward in heaven.

These false ones that speak against my People, or who offer themselves as blind guides, apart from my true Way, I say are those spoken of by the prophet Jeremias...

Jer. 6:10 To whom shall I speak and give warning,
That they may hear?
Indeed their ear is uncircumcised,
And they cannot give heed.
Behold, the word of the LORD is a reproach to them;
They have no delight in it.
Jer. 6:11 Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD.
I am weary of holding it in.
“I will pour it out on the children outside,
And on the assembly of young men together;
For even the husband shall be taken with the wife,
The aged with him who is full of days.
Jer. 6:12 And their houses shall be turned over to others,
Fields and wives together;
For I will stretch out My hand
Against the inhabitants of the land,” says the LORD.
Jer. 6:13 “Because from the least of them even to the greatest of them,
Everyone is given to covetousness;
And from the prophet even to the priest,
Everyone deals falsely.
Jer. 6:14 They have also healed the hurt of My people slightly,
Saying, “Peace, peace!’
When there is no peace.
Jer. 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
No! They were not at all ashamed;
Nor did they know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
At the time I punish them,
They shall be cast down,” says the LORD.
Jer. 6:16 ¶ Thus says the LORD:
“Stand in the ways and see,
And ask for the old paths, where the good way is,
And walk in it;
Then you will find rest for your souls.
But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’


Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it,

Then you will find rest for your souls.

My old Way is on the earth again;
Peace and healing can be found there,
My Abba sets the lonely in families,
He heals the brokenhearted and weary ones.

As my People of old were one in mind and heart,
and walked in one Way, together with me, sharing all things with one another, and also sharing in my suffering together with me,
so is it once more with my holy ones that I am raising up. All things spoken of by all my holy prophets since the world began are being restored and fulfilled through my sent ones.

He who hears them, hears Me; and He who hears Me, hears Him who sent Me.

He who rejects them, rejects Me; and He who rejects Me, rejects Him who sent Me.

The Way to My Way can be found at www.TheLitmusTest.org (http://www.TheLitmusTest.org)

[minutus (minutus)]

Get ready for the bigger millstone, Yashua baby!

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Same-same, Dave; and he's posting on nonGG threads also.

[hodeuon (hodeuon)]

207.44.154.35, if you were Y'shua, I figure it wouldn't say "Junior Member" under your name. Your spelling is indicative of the Sacred Name movement and the King James Version. So, are you David Alexander or one of his friends in the Twelve Tribes?

Hodeuon

[wildgrape (wildgrape)]

207.44.154.35 yahshua said, "... He who rejects Me, rejects Him who sent Me."

So... who sent YOU??? "Yoneq the magnificent" of Ten Tribes that's who!

Consider yourself rejected!

[nonotone (nonotone)]

Friends,

Can we move to a privately administered board so we can kick these Bozos off when they persist in this kind of blasphemous juvenile BS?

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

'Privately administered'? Sounds like cult-speak to me.

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Instead of kicking him off here; if you feel led or interested, why don't you hunt him out on the nonGG threads and expose him there as well? That way you can help prevent others from falling pray to his particular branch of the abusive woods.

If he's allowed to stay here, then it will be in the light of those who recognize what he's trying to do and can say so.

[hillbilly (hillbilly)]

Are you familiar with performance management? Maybe if you ignore the bozo he will go away. It's called extinction. He may get real loud at first though. (Of course, I don't know if performance management only works on normal people.)

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

I wonder if names like 'hillbilly' work for people with 474 posts?

[doug (doug)]

"Yahshua"
Was your apostle speaking from the holy spirit when he threatened with a large pair of scissors to cut off the terrified little girls thumb and did lying to her to scare her teach her the faith of Isaac with Abraham? Is that why Isaac trusted his father? Because someone terrified him with a lie?

Hillbilly
Does that mean I'm normal? It worked for me on their trauma thread.

[doug (doug)]

PS
Punching in the nose sometimes works better than debate or gossip

[ex_yathed (ex_yathed)]

Author Message


ex_yathed (ex_yathed)
Intermediate Member
Username: ex_yathed

Post Number: 176
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.183.33.235

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)
Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 7:12 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just saw on another page of the Religious Cults and Sects page that David Alexander(aka Daveed Derush) is evangelizing (recruiting) all over this web site with links to their newest "Free Papers". Its from a computer in Georgia so he is either at their Savannah or Brunswick community.

So, if you dont know, the Twelve Tribes are considered a high control destructive fundamentalist group (cult) by countless professionals and Cult experts.

[minutus (minutus)]

Seems like ol' Davey boy and his brood of vipers aren't coming 'round this neighborhood.

[ex_yathed (ex_yathed)]

I dont think he wants to post on a thread named for him. He's definitely lurking around looking for someone to devour...
As you can see, David Derush has taken my warnings to all the boards as a chance to recruit for his cult which claims they are the Only Ones and the Only Way and if your not with them, your going to the Lake of Fire for eternity or to the first death to pay for your own sins if you can. They are just like the rest of the cults on the factnet boards.
To see both sides of the story go to
http://www.twelvetribes-ex.org/

or if you wish, you can contact me personally at exyathed@yahoo.com

[minutus (minutus)]

Thanks for your concern, ExY. Godspeed in your quest.

[nwmomike (nwmomike)]

I have to agree with Bob. The best way to fight error is with truth. He's been refuted time and time again but seems to have the idea "I know what I believe, don't confuse me with the facts".

I had hoped by this time he would get it. Their claims don't hold water.

M or Michael

[johncolo_springs (johncolo_springs)]

Below is a link to an article I have written that describes my own personal observations concerning whether or not the Twelve Tribes have this supreme Apostolic Authority that they boast of or not. What do others think?
Here it is:
http://www.geocities.com/pilgrims492003/signsfollowing.html

[anon_brief (anon_brief)]

Thanks, John.

They may be selling, but folks around here aren't buying.

[patrick_2 (patrick_2)]

i just stumbled upon this site after doing a search on religious discussions... i have one question..
Have any single one of you ever visited TWELVE TRIBES??? or are you all just a bunch of idiots... speaking so boldy about things you have never gone and looked into for yourself... have you ever learned to seriously investigate a matter for yourself or are you the lowest of the lowly???? i have never personally visited TWELVE TRIBES but i refuse to say something bad about them until i go and visit for myself... what are you going to do???
am i one of th only people left in this world who has ANY dignity left??? is common sense outdated???

COME, let us confidently teach of things we know nothing about...
Whatever happened to the human brain?????

[minutus (minutus)]

It seems like you missed the point of this thread, patrick. While we may or may not know 12 Tribulations (and you assume a lot on that question) some of us DO KNOW DAVID ALEXANDER PERSONALLY. Next time bring YOUR brain to the conversation.

[lee (lee)]

Ah, let me see.....yes, there are web sites dedicated to the twelve tribes.
They live nearby, I have opportunity to observe
they have businesses in the neighborhood
I see their children and women
I've read the articles in the Globe
I've seen the tv reports
I've read some on FN about them
I've been to their restaurant
I've read the literature they put out
I've talked to a couple of them
I brought my brain with me on these occasions and
yes, I think they have left ALL. Family, friends, education, neighborhoods, culture and took upon themselves the same dress, the same manner of speaking, the same beliefs. They don't seem like bad people.....like I should be afraid of them, they serve good food, when they make a mistake they profusely repent, they work hard, they are masters of carpentry, shoe making, clothing (back to the earth) but anytime one group says they are the group favored by God, above and seperate from others, it sends up warning signs. Their doctrine seems to be taken from only sections of the bible that they highlight. Authority structure seems oppressive to women and children.
Frankly, I saw enough to decide that they are a cult. I am finished looking for a substitute family. The one I was given is okay with me. God's family is also okay with me.
I haven't the experience that Dave and his bro have had with the leaders but I think I've seen enough to stay away from them.

[dave_drago (dave_drago)]

Lee,
Well said. God builds His Kingdom ONE family at a time. Any ministry or preacher that does not encourage strong homes is anathema. God designed families. God designed the church which is the family of God.

Old Testament:

Genesis 7.1 Finally, the day came when the LORD said to Noah, "Go into the boat with all your family, for among all the people of the earth, I consider you alone to be righteous.


New Testament:

Acts 2.39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.

Acts 11.14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16.15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Acts 16.31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Romans 16.10 Salute Apelles the approved in Christ. Salute them that are of the household of Aristobulus.

1 Corinthians 1.16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

Admonishment to the man who forsakes his family:

1 Timothy 5.8 But those who won't care for their own relatives, especially those living in the same household, have denied what we believe. Such people are worse than unbelievers.

For Him,
Dave

[patrick_2 (patrick_2)]

i actually like what you said lee... it was great.. you have a point... "anytime one group says they are the group favored by God, above and seperate from others, it sends up warning signs".. but is god the father of confusion??? i personally haven't witnessed much unity in Christianity.. i did read the the TT site and some opposing sites... i don't claim to know who God's true people are but i can't blame them for thinking they are the most favored by God. Other people may not say,"WE ARE THE ONLY ONES", but when one attacks another religion, he might as well say,"your religion is wrong, my religion is right".. if we are all God's people then it is waste of our time and God's time for us to judge which religion is right... its great to recruit people and all but hey, if someone doesn't agree with your religion or my religion, let god judge them.. if we can confidently say that our religion is the right one, then why get threatened by what someone of another anointing says?? to me the warning signs go up when someone gets threatened by the religion or simple beliefs of another person... but it does seem like you have at least a little more integrity than some others on this site... but really. nobody answered my question.. have YOU gone and visited the tribes or are you basing your "facts" on things other fallen people have said...??? it seems like lee has been around them.. but based on what he said, i'm not going to go around talking trash about TT or any other religion out there.. i would have to go and see for myself.. visit them, find out where they are coming from... some how i get the feeling that you, minutus, haven't visited TT by how you responded to me... Lee had a much more straight forward, calm response.. sharing his experience rather than responding like you did.. am i right??? thank you lee.. god bless

[minutus (minutus)]

Why not start a thread entitled "You Can Only Talk About 12 Tribes if You've Visited Them" patrick? Or maybe you can only talk about Nazis if you lived through the death camps, etc. I talk about what my family has experienced and this is the thread I created for that purpose. You are free to say what you will, but it's not reasonable to expect me to do something else here.

[lee (lee)]

Patrick
I don't have to live in adultery to know the devastating effects of it. I don't have to become an out of control addict to know the horrors of the place. I can take my calm reserve and make judgements about what I read and observe. I think Dave's bro has demonstrated not only a very personal experience with D. Alexander but he's aware of what has been written about them and by them. He's given a warning based on the very things you've recommended.
Be careful Patrick what you open yourself up to. Not everything is wht it appears to be or offers you. You could willingly damage yourself. It could take years to get over it. Use your brain and discern.....read.....do your homework!

[doug (doug)]

patrick_2
I lived in the TT for 3 and a half years. There can be problems in a group that is not a cult but look at the character of their apostle. He is claiming to be an apostle of all 12 tribes at once. None of the apostles had that claim, only Jesus and Moses yet Gene/Yoneq, their apostle, has none of the signs that Moses or Jesus or the 12 apostles had to show them approved by God but has that position.

This is my response to David. The teaching I show is not contested as being theirs but contested that it would cause misunderstanding to people who don't have the anointing. read it for yourself


davidderush who posted above is one and the same as David Alaxander. David, are you trying to confuse people by changing your name so they don't associate you with the Execution of Justice teaching?

RE: The above post by DAVID ALAXANDER
This is a teaching from the communities Apostle "Yoneq", otherwise known as Eugene Elbert Spriggs, that David Alaxander in his above post is prosletising for under his davidderush name.

For more info see "Twelve Tribes" on this web site.

<font color="ff0000">Execution of Justice
(Letter from Elbert concerning discipline and the seed of Abraham)
The reason Isaac was so willing to let his father sacrifice him was because he had
been raised his whole life knowing that he did not belong to himself, but belonged to his
father, and he was not living for himself, but living for his father. Hephzibah is coming to
understand that she is living for her father and belongs to him. The other day she was
having great difficulty being obedient to his command: not to suck her thumb in bed.
Elbert asked her to stick out her thumb because he was going to cut it off. He took a
huge pair of scissors and came toward her. She was terrified, but (after receiving her
discipline) she willingly stuck out her thumb to be cut off rather than let it cause her to
stumble in her obedience to her father. Elbert didn’t actually cut it off, but he wants
Hephzibah to understand that it is better to have your hand cut off now rather than later.
He wants her to be saved.
It is absolutely necessary to raise our children to know that they do not belong to
themselves, but to their father. How else can they believe that they don’t belong to
themselves except by training them as our Heavenly Father trains us to believe this. We
only “regain our true life” if we lose our false and criminal life. Whoever wants to save
Execution of Justice Page 6
1900.00.16-L01.DOC 020612.1326
his life will lose it, and whoever loses it for My sake shall find it. Abraham received back
the promise only after he had killed his only son the only son who could bring about the
promise. Abraham had faith to surrender his only heir. Abraham was tested. He endured
under trial to see whether he would obey (Heb 11:17-19; Gen 22:1; Jms 1:12). Abraham
obeyed by faith for he heard God say, “Abraham, take your son, your only son Isaac,
whom you love, and go sacrifice him.”
The error of “the local church” and many churches is in allowing doctrine to
substitute for obedience. We can do as they say, but not as they do, for they do not truly
discern the Body of Messiah though they have much wonderful doctrine. Without seeing
Gen 18:19, the Body of Messiah doesn’t make sense.</font>
Note: Elbert is not the little girls father but is the apostle of the community. I don't see a close resemblance to his lying to a little girl and teaching the faith that Abraham had in Isaac.

David responded on Dec 21
<font color="0000ff">I don't know anything about the above...but I DO KNOW that the truth that sets men free can be found at www.TheLitmusTest.org (http://www.TheLitmusTest.org)
It is for Christians Only. Truth will always be attacked. Those who are wise will not be put off by such things. The fact is, anyone who wants to see the fruit of our lives can visit us at anytime; and see that our children are some of the most wonderful on the whole earth. As the Word says, "wisdom is justified by her children". Sincerely, david</font>

My reply Dec 22
David
<font color="0000ff">I don't know anything about the above…</font>
Are you saying you don't know if Spriggs taught that and if it is one of the communities teachings or you don't know if there is anything wrong with what was alleged in the teaching CD that Jacob took from the community?

[patrick_2 (patrick_2)]

Gene really claimed to be the apostle??? do you have a quote of some kind or is that just speculation??? Have you ever met him???

And sure, I'll start another thread..And I'll talk about how stupid it is that people are so affected by another persons doctrine that they make a career out of scoffing at it. I have read some things that the TT wrote and i can't say i see eye to eye on everything. But i've seen one thing by reading different threads. TT for the most part is promoting their religion w/out attacking yours.. You all, on the other hand, spend your time attacking TT doctrine.. That is a really bad sign.. Why are you so threatened by their doctrine.. Do you think you are promoting peace on earth??? And as for your analagies.. I have the freedom to talk about how bad the Nazis were.. I'm part Jewish.. But I would have to consider myself a TOTAL LOSER to make a career out of criticizing their beliefs and their lifestyle.. You just make yourselves look like complete victims.. Like you have nothing better to do than to sit around and talk about all the drawbacks of the TT.. especially you exyathed...

Proverbs 14:9--"Fools mock at sin, but among the upright their is favor."

So if TT is a bad place and you feel they are sinful, aren't you foolish to mock them and their teachings??? Lee said, "Their doctrine seems to be taken from only sections of the bible that they highlight. Authority structure seems oppressive to women and children." It SEEMS this way... See, you don't KNOW...i'm not saying that i know the truth but go get some facts and evidence to back up your accusations and they maybe i'll believe you... And to Doug.. I have looked at Gene's (or Elbert) character... I have thoroughly studied their site and from what i see he has alot more character then any of you do.. I think he is a man of integrity..
He is more concerned about pleasing God than man.. that is very commendable... i certainly don't claim to be like that..

[yoloextropian (yoloextropian)]

Patrick_2, yes I lived in Island Pond; &amp; actually I lived for some time in the same house as Hephzibah who is mentioned in the quote from Doug. Becoming a part of this group is not the same as a tacit acceptance; the TT require complete surrender of their members. That includes no opinions unless officially sanctioned; I saw people reprimanded because they were still interested in how the ball teams from back home were doing. This includes no newspapers or radio unless you have approval (ie your name is Hakam); much less any other kind of reading (Bibles and FreePapers excepted).

Yknow, maybe there are people hanging around these boards who haven't been there, &amp; maybe a few people who still _are_ there, like the David Derush/Alexander fellow. But there are also those for whom this board serves a purpose other than as a forum for recruiting or safe place to learn about the TT etc, &amp; that is to free ourselves from the remnant memories that haunt us.

[whitehorses (whitehorses)]

what does this twelve tribes have to do with TBS/GG? dont we have enough to discuss with one cult without bringing in another one?

[anon_brief (anon_brief)]

They were trolling for recruits here, Margo.

Hope you are feeling well.

[doug (doug)]

patrick
Yes he does claim to be an apostle, that's one of the basic foundations of the community, and yes I lived with him in the same house for over a year and the same community for 3 and a half
They don't attack the people they are evangelizing, how nice, but don't tell me what they do or don't do - I have a right to respond to their judgments and comdemnations of me and others for leaving them.

<font color="0000ff">Proverbs 14:9--"Fools mock at sin, but among the upright their is favor."</font> Got a mirror? I didn't mock Gene, I gave his teaching which speaks for itself. What do you think of someone who does and teaches what I posted in the "Execution of Justice"?

If you want to call me a fool for exposing what I wish I'd known before I lived there than you can reap what you sow and you will be judged likewise.