A little history

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

I found this digging through the archives, very interesting:

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Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 6:19 am: (http://www.factnet.org/factnetcgi/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=28165#POST28165)

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JUNE 30 1995 SAT MORNING RAP GGWO INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE 1995 TAPE 29 DR STEVENS
(This had a French translation. What was going on in France?)

" At first I wanna say this, that when people leave a finnished work ministry to go to the charismatics, to go to pentacostalism, they are sinning against God and they are leaving this call, they are getting into the emotionalism. They are getting into the phony signs and wonders. They are getting into sublimation. I can tell you that they are living in sin and you don't go and have coffee with them. When they unkindly leave a ministry that is soulwinning, finnished work, bible doctrine ministry. Verses for that 1 Joh 2:19-20 First They are under decipline and it may take 3-7 years but they are under decipline.
2. They suffer lost of all the rewards that the ministry that the ministry culminated all these types, they loose all.
3. They get into satans original sin because in they are sowers discord.
4. They are leaving a college education to go into the primary system of theology....... the only reason to live is that if the pastor lives in unmorality and won't corrected or he is living in false doctrine.... you got to get hid with corporate vision under the divine table of God's structureand(?) then God pour the blessings Ps 133 leaders get blessing face-team...

He is the very only pastors who's tapes are sensored! Some of the raps (an informal discussion time about Bible and relevant issues)are full of blanks.

Last time (early 90's) when I was in Baltimore there already where signs that Dr Stevens is not doing well at all. He made very bad comments and pastors were oblige to follow his sayings!

My alias e-mail is ppaulowen@hotmail.com

Finn

deception= the process of being led away from truth through the wrong influence or a lie (often satanically initiated): to be alienated from a personal relationship with God and God's life...
Greater Grace Glossary, Expanded Version

[anova (anova)]

ericlaw,

Great research!! What a reminder of how unbelievable those "raps" were!

It would be great if we could get more word for word written accounts of raps. What a thread that would be!

Anovus

[jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy)]

Yes, Junior wasn't doing well at all. In fact, he was a heretic. He was also "unmoral," wouldn't be corrected and living in false doctrine. In homiletics that's what they call preaching from your own experience. I wonder who he was talking about this time...

Jim

[bobbie (bobbie)]

unfortunately I believe there is a lot of peaching from personal experience in both GGWO and The Finished Work in Havre de Grace.

[nonotone (nonotone)]

Friends,

I will ABSOLUTELY validate that the transcription posted by ERICLAW is true. 1995 was my first GGWO Convention. I had just "come out" of "Charismaticism" myself. I remember this Rap disctinctly because I was really impressed with Carl for having the "gutz" to speak this way. Believe me, it's a whole other story about how messed up many of the "Charistmatic Cults" are. However, there are also MANY conservative "Charismatic" churches (some Calvary Chapel assemblies would fit this description) filled with many mature Christians that grew from receiving solid "meat" from their Pastors.

However, just look at the judgemental consequences that Carl invokes upon the folk who departed from TBS/GGWO to go to the Charismatics. One could argue that these are EXACTLY the same consequences that anyone who follows Carl's babblings may accrue to themselves for:

1) Who cares about "Bema toys" (i.e. rewards), my reward is progressively "escaping the corruption that is in the world by lust" in a process of being conformed to Jesus Christ's image and learning to submit to/abide in His Lordship.

2) With all the destruction in the wake of TBS'/GGWO's history, who is it who is really into "the orginial sins of Satan" in the story above?

3) Who NEVER got a College (or Seminary) Education to begin with? You guessed it: Carl himself.

Are we all sick of the self-appointed "Apostleship" and "arrogated authority" coming forth from this man and now from his appointees?

Friends, I here and now PUBLICLY REPENT for ever aggrandizing Carl H. Stevens and TBS/GGWO. If I have ever offended anyone personally with this kind (or another) of behavior, please EMAIL me at nonotone@mac.com.


Brian Bowman
John 3:21

(Message edited by nonotone on April 27, 2005)

[really (really)]

Here is a letter that we thought you might like to read:
Greater Grace Christian Fellowship
187 Pleasant Street, Marlborough, MA 01752





April 23, 2005


Dear Pastor Schaller,

If this letter could speak audibly, you would hear in the background, a mighty cheering and celebration!
On behalf of all of us at Greater Grace Christian Fellowship in Marlborough, MA, we rejoice and thank the Lord for your new position of Chief Elder and Pastor/Teacher of GGWO in Baltimore. We believe and are convinced that God has given the body there a man who is after God’s heart. The vision that was given so many years ago to Pastor Stevens to win the lost and make disciples as Christ commanded, we know, also burns in your heart and will be what propels us forward in the days ahead.
We will be praying for you, your wife, Lisa, and family during this exciting time. Please know that our hearts are with you and we love and support you in this new step of faith.
We look forward to serving Jesus Christ along with you and the precious saints in Baltimore. There is so much to look forward to and to be excited about: on-going missions into all the world, Convention at homebase, the Grace Hour, seminars, graduations, outreaches, youth camps, women’s’ seminars, etc.!
We would love to have you come visit us whenever time permits! We look to you as such a special and sacred covering for our pastor and for the church here in Marlborough.

God bless you and keep you in His tender, loving care.

Sincerely,

[lee (lee)]

not only serious but special and sacred!!

The act of self deception moves in fast.....

[bobbie (bobbie)]

Sincerely who?

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

Is there anyway to authenticate this letter? If this letter is trustworthy, it likely didn't make rounds in the other affiliates.

j_graz, can you provide any info on this?

[listener (listener)]

The letter is authentic.

[jim_faucett (jim_faucett)]

Thanks for your 'verification', listener. And you are? (Morrison? Van Doren? Another Marlborough pastor?) Do you view Sandy Cove as a mistake? A deception furthered by 'off' men? Do you support this letter? If so, why? If not, why not?

It would be interesting to see someone elocute the opposing view.

[listener (listener)]

You are welcome. ericlaw requested verification. I was aware of its existence. To your other questions.

I am a listener, attempting to be discerning.
No.
No.
No.
Absolutely not.
No.
No.
I am not not knowledgeable enough to be qualifed to elocute further.

I am not sure what the opposing view is...that the letter is not authentic?

Your words imply anger and aggression. I have none toward you, and respect you and the words that you have posted in the past. If I misread you, forgive me.

I am listening. I pose no threat, although I don't know what threat ANY poster could be to you. I am not part of (or paid by)GGWO leadership. I do fear that you could threaten me....

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

Listener,
Can you provide any credentials that state you can authenticate this? Like a name, or something. I don't mean to be rude, but I could authenitcate a UFO siting if I wanted to.

[listener (listener)]

I have contacted Ralph Wells previously

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

Listener,
Can you email me eric_claw@yahoo.com.

[jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy)]

Welcome to Factnet, Listener.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

I assure you that "Listener" is a very concerned and honest person. I do know his indentity and will let him reveal it to whom ever he trusts. But he is reliable.

I am very sorry your pastor chose to go this way.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif It looks like Van Dorn and his son-in-law won him over. I guess you will be looking for a new church home now? We will all be praying for you.

[dawn (dawn)]

Will someone tell me where Pastor Stevens daughter is? I think she was married to Shawn, also Roberta Hall, the singer in Lenox. Also Pat Dykty.

[jim_faucett (jim_faucett)]

Hey Listener,

Sorry if I seemed agressive. Most on FN can attest that when I do get that way, it is unmistakable.

I was genuinely hoping that you were someone on the inside who could actually educate us as to what the current thinking is at the Marlborough church.

As my favorite Martian and even RJ will attest, I am weighty in letters but not in speech. Nothing would please me more than to be threatening to Tom's doctrine and following--although I would be more pleased to be able to convince anyone who drank the Koolaid to spit it out and run.

Van Doren, Morrison and even Corbiere were participants and signatories of the Sandy Cove document as I remember (I just checked and they are). I am amazed that they have turned so quickly. I would love to be threatening in writing to those guys. They have become hypocrites while guys like Morin and Graziano have stood firm for the truth to their own hurt.

Since we're on the subject of being threatening, here's the emails for Morrison, Corbiere, and Van Doren and the fax number for Stambosky. Let's all give them a poke and see if we get any growls, OK?

Corbiere
pr-ggcboston@earthlink.net

Morrison
pastor@ggcf.org

VanDoren
prarnold@comcast.net


Stambosky Fax
413-243-3919


These are the email addresses of the other 'pastors' of the Marlborough GG church:

prbenoit@ggcf.org

prwambolt@ggcf.org

prgourd@ggcf.org

My email is going out in a minute. How's that for aggressive?

Yours most sincerely,
JF

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

My opinion is that these men know on which side their bread is buttered...Corbiere is Van Doren's son in law and he doesn't know anything exacpt being a GGWO pastor. His wife is a Carl and Barbara favorite. The same goes for the rest of them. They will stay with Carl/Tom as long as Tom/Carl allow them their little power structures in their little churches. Pathetic the whole damned bunch of them.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Dawn - Mel and Shawn are in Virginia, Roberta Hall married Mitch Powell (P. Powell's brother) and have some absolutely beautiful/handsome kids, Pat Dykty and her husband are in Baltimore.

[dawn (dawn)]

Thank you Ralph,
I went to S. Berwick at 47 yrs.old. I am now the same age as pastor. I was alone then and am still alone. The 9 yrs. there,and Lenox were full of fear. I obeyed completely. My mom, brother and 2 sisters were there also. I began to question many things. I struggled for years to survive. My two sisters are still in Balt. Factnet has answered so many questions for me. I want every residue of TBS. cleansed from my soul.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Dawn - I reposted something about healing for you on the other thread, but I will repost it here for you.

Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 10:28 am:

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For the past four years I have worked as a BMET at JHBMC. One of the units I suppport is the Burn Center.

My first encounter with the Burn Unit was as an on-call Chaplain for Bayview in the early and mid nineties. As Bayview has one of the most respected burn units on the Eastern Seaboard I have seen many very serious cases over the past dozen years. Some are burned so badly they do not make it!!!

While making rounds this morning there was a medical team changing dressings on a person who has burns over about 60% of their body including most of the lower extremeties. It is not a pretty sight! Much seared skin and flesh is removed no matter how careful the team tries to be. The contrast of the blackened skin and the raw pink flesh underneath tests the resolve of even the most seasoned personnel. It is certainly not pretty, but necessary to the healing process.

Then I thought of the many of us, some out, some in, some in the process. I thought of how much we are like the burn patients.

Some have had all of their plastic surgery and are looking pretty good, most of the scars are gone, many are even trying to help others.

Others have healed from the burn, but the scars are there in all of their ugly reminder, and yet some of them are trying to help ones who are in earlier stages of healing.

Still others are in the wound phase. The pain is excruciating and the wound is ugly beyond belief, but the process has began. They have no energy or will to help others, they do not even know if they want help.

The final group are the ones still in shock. They look at the burn and it is swollen, red, and fluid is beginning to build under the skin in it's feeble attempt to protect the flesh from the burn. Numbness makes the pain not yet a reality, the burn looks surreal, but we know that the pain will follow.....

And that is how I see all of us,,, "Lord, let me be a little kinder.."

Blessings,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[yogi (yogi)]

Man somebody get the insulin cuz I'm going into "sugar shock" after reading that bilge written by Jim Morrison to Tom-ass Shallow.
Gag me!

yogi

PS.

PASTAH'S QUOTE:"They are leaving a college education to go into the primary system of theology....... the only reason to live is that if the pastor lives in unmorality and won't corrected or he is living in false doctrine.... you got to get hid with corporate vision under the divine table of God's structureand(?) then God pour the blessings Ps 133 leaders get blessing face-team..."

Evidently, "pastors" (and I use the term loosley) More-ass-on and Shallow are being VERY disobedient to their ONE "pastah" "teachah."

yogi

[really (really)]

Don't be crude. It isn't appreciated by anyone.

[arguendo (arguendo)]

I appreciate it.

[yogi (yogi)]

Oh REALLY really! Just exercising my First amendment rights, if you have a problemo with it shut your virgin widdle eyeballs.

Thanks arg!

yogi

[boss_martian (boss_martian)]

Yogi,

Some call it crudeness, I call it tellin' the truth!

It's time for all these false idols to get knocked off their pedestals.

[isabella (isabella)]

Yogi, Yogerino, Yogerella!

Always enjoy your posts.

Thanks,

Isabella

[isabella (isabella)]

And you too my Boss!

[boss_martian (boss_martian)]

I'm proud to be YOUR Martian, but I don't think I could ever be your boss.

Love you, Isabella!

[jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy)]

"Cancel my subscription to the ressurection.
Book me a room in the house of detention.
I've got friends inside..."

Jim Morrison?

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

Here's a letter I wrote to a friend who is at the crossroads with me....

Yeah, my mother came into the ministry in 1977 with me and my twin brother, met my father in TBS, we lived in Lenox Apartments, got sent out on a team in 1981 to California, got caught up in the middle of the Lake Elsinore debacle, and was left out on California to fend for ourselves after the spplit. IN 1993 I came back up here after I graduated from high school (I know, I'm old!). While I lived here I certainly got my fill of self righteous people and alot of hypocrisy. It left me questioning many things but not God. Since 1998 I've been back and forth with my husband and moved up here permanently just about 2 years ago (when all the poopy-caca really started hitting the fan-only all us 'sheep' didn't know it yet). Like you, I've not stood for any ovations unless I thought some singer gave an amazing performance. I don't go to church to give praise to ANY man....I've always been uncomfortable with that. One time, I got seated with my mother in the chairs at the front of the stage and everyone stood up to give pastor Stevens and ovation and he looked right at me and said into the microphone, "What you don't like it? Come on, get up!" and I actually felt embarrassed and obligated to get up and clap for him! I NEVER stood up since then....not even for a good singer. The blind trust in these so-called leaders makes me want to puke. You're better than I in that you still attned until God brings you somewhere else. I can't even get myself to go to church....the thought of exposing my beautiful, pure children to all the malarky makes me ill. I've never thought GG cornered the market on the Finished Work....I've know many friends who've been taught the same thing in different ministries but they do not give undue adulation to thier spiritual teachers. I mean hey, we're all carrying the identity of the same Christ....no one has any more of the portion than anyone else or else it's just a big fat works program. I KNOW that the fellowship of the mystery is knowing the Christ in you, not knowing any man after the flesh. I know who I am positionally and eternally....I am secure in that.
As far as Pastor Paul is soncerned, I've never gotten anything except life from what he's spoken. Frankly, I don't give a rip about his personal sin...that is between him and God (maybe his wife too). If he has repented and gone on I have no choice but to receive the life that is in him...the life if Christ! He's a great teacher and I hope that he throws off ALL of the false doctrines and lies we've been fed and really goes forward with God.
So, I'll go now. If I see you in church, I'll definitely wave at least :-)
Thanks for the e-mails...nice to know there are 'others' out there.
God Bless!
Dina

[isabella (isabella)]

Dear Jim Kennedy, et al..

I remember when Jim Morrison said to me:
"Isabella! We cannot even consider buying this Body-House unless you are going to move in!"

I fell for it;
HOOK-LINE & SINKER!

I went right to the bank. The banker tried to talk me out of it. I thought to myself:
"This banker isn't even saved"!!!!"

anyway...
I believed Jim Morrison was sincere. I liked him (still love him) and his wife, Dawn.
Dawn has a sister, Ruth, who was very shy.
Anyone know what happened to Ruth?...
(Only if it's happy please.)

Love and Goodnight,
Isabella

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Isabella, I didn't know Ruth but Dawn's sister, Lisa Clayton would babysit for me when I lived in Rockland. She lived in Camden, Me. She was a sweetheart.

Love and Goodnight,
Jeannie

[jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy)]

I don't know Jim at all. It just always used to crack me up whenever he was introduced, I couldn't hear his name without thinking about the Doors. And I can get downright goofy if you push the Jim Morrison button...The guy is saying "turn in your Bibles to John 3" and I'm thinking "I woke up this morning and I got myself a beer."

Sorry Jim

Sweet Dreams, Jim

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Ruth got married a couple of years ago and the are in the Marlborough ministry. Husbands name John (class of 80), cannot think of the last name at the moment. Do not get old, it is terrible on the memory. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif

[yogi (yogi)]

Thanks to my ever lovin' fans, love you guys too!

Power to the people... who-ah!

yogi

[minutus (minutus)]

So do we do a GGWO version of "The End" in honor of Jim Morrison?

[minutus (minutus)]

So do we do a GGWO version of "The End" in honor of Jim Morrison?

[jim_faucett (jim_faucett)]

Nobody here gets out alive.