PASTOR SCOTT ROBINSON THREAD %232

[Anonymous (70.16.6.34)]

BUMP

[Anonymous (67.243.240.137)]

Scott may be a "great guy", but unfortunately he has been a knowing accomplice of much of the schemes of Carl Stevens and others in ggwo that are catagorized as "evil" by many outside the ministry.

[RJ (151.203.163.174)]

RJ (151.203.163.174)
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 03:48 am
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"P. Robinson, to this day has nothing but compassion and a heart for the hurt and wounded."

Ahhhh....but has he any heart and compassion for those he himself personally has wounded?

No. He doesn't. I have first hand knowledge of this. Believe what you want of him. He smiles with one face and maligns with the other.

I was with someone who went to him for help here in Lenox and the person was laughed at and turned away. I am not the only person who can tell of such an experience. Maybe he's a good old boy in Baltimore, but he was no such thing here.


Nic (149.174.164.83)
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 05:50 am
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I would just like to say that I have known Pastor Robinson since I was a teenager, and he has been nothing but a true friend to me and my family. As someone has said before on here, his fault may be that he tries to be a friend to everybody, because that is his heart, and he does get caught in the middle sometimes. He has always been available and approachable, and very much can identify with you exactly where you are at.

It is so easy to make general statements about people not being helped and treated badly, without knowing the full story, and BOTH sides of it.

All I can tell of is that I have found him to be a real friend. And when my daughter was in the Christian school, Pastor R would spend time with the kids, and invest in them and take them out places, and it made such an impact on their lives.


Anonymous (68.34.76.34)
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 08:14 am
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RJ, don't you have better things to do except bringing up your OLD dirty laundry. Lenox is in the past, stop drudging up all that stuff. Many of us who know P Robinson today, know him as a great friend in Christ. Seems to me you just like stirring up trouble.


RJ (151.203.163.174)
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 10:05 am
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GGWO is a cult. It has a cult past that has followed it to Baltimore. GGWO would not be in Baltimore but for the crimes and excesses done in it's prior incarnations, and you cannot escape it.

There are two sides to every situation. Both sides need to be spoken.

I knoow Scott has his good points, but he is a leader in a cult. Bottom line, he is not all he appears to be. And no, I do not have better things to do then expose what I know of a cult, so that others might be warned.


Anonymous (205.188.117.20)
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 10:23 am
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Well said Roberta...

Again, the higher you are in the web of deceit surrounding Carl Stevens then you are all the more compromised. Scott Robinson is as high as one can get in GG. He shares the sin. In each decision he could have made a right choice, he did not. He could have decided to stand for Christ, for righteousness, for truth, for the sake of others but he did not. He could have chose the sacredness of being a loyal and true friend but it would have cost him too much. Do I believe he is conflicted and burdened by his bad decisions? Yes, but not enough. For years and years he chose to enable and cover Carl's sins. Even now, at the cost of many, he chooses this path. He shares the sin.


lee (65.96.56.161)
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 10:27 am
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sad sad sad......so many men and women have made decisions to stay where there is no accountability, no responsibility, no examination, no obedience to the word, no integrity. sad sad sad


RJ (151.203.163.174)
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 10:31 am
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It is sad, Lee. I used to adore Scott. He was a friend and I loved his happy spirit until I discovered what lurked beneath the surface.

All of this is incredibly sad.


Anonymous (64.12.117.20)
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 11:13 am
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What is sad, RJ, is what lurks beneath your surface, and actually it is not too far beneath to see it plainly


Anonymous (205.188.117.20)
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 11:28 am
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No, what is sad is those that continue to defend an evil leadership devoid of God's nature. That turn blind eye to those that have watched their families destroyed for the sake of protecting a facade of Christianity. What is sad is attaching evil motivations to those that speak the truth and expose the lie. What is sad is to observe evil labeled as good and good labeled as evil.


Anonymous (63.27.71.162)
Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 12:06 am
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Hey, GGWOers won't even let you open your mouth and say one syllable of dissent. Cocatrice eggs, an evil report, touch not God's anointed, etc...
How on earth can we reach these people as long as they continue to refuse to listen and keep their heads up filled with brainwashing caca?

I recently went to a GGWOers home on a Sunday afternoon to pick up something brought from overseas by this person's son. As she opened the door I could hear Carl droning in the background, "The subconscious is the conscious..." as she stared at me like a zombie!


Anonymous (24.91.61.194)
Friday, September 03, 2004 - 01:52 am
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sad sad sad that you people will have to give an account of every idle word you have spoken.


Bob Brinton (141.154.150.31)
Friday, September 03, 2004 - 04:00 am
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Don't forget the idol words.


C.B (24.91.61.194)
Friday, September 03, 2004 - 11:04 am
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Idle words can become idol words when one thinks he/she has a mission.
Sure you can say anything you like. No one is stopping you. But what if this "high calling" you who attack God's people think you have, is not of God? Don't you ever wonder if all of you; Lee, Bob, JF,Roberta, etc. are part of the Accuser's plan to accuse God's people. (night and day?)
C'mon, be honest.

You remind me of the dwarfs in C.S. Lewis' book The Last Battle (Chron. of Narnia). They sat huddled in a little group complaining and ranting about their experience when all around them the glory God was shining. They couldn't see it.
You also, I believe are overlooking the magnitude of God. Is His arm too short? Doesn't He know everything?

When the disciples asked Jesus, "what about him?" Jesus replied, "What is that to you?"

What about about P. Stevens, Greater Grace, Baltimore?

"What is that to you?"


Anonymous (64.12.117.20)
Friday, September 03, 2004 - 11:48 am
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Idle words can become idol words when one thinks he/she has a mission.
Do you mean like the recruiting of attendees?

Sure you can say anything you like. No one is stopping you. But what if this "high calling" you who attack God's people think you have, is not of God?
What if your covering of misdeeds and sin is not of God?

Don't you ever wonder if all of you; Lee, Bob, JF,Roberta, etc. are part of the Accuser's plan to accuse God's people. (night and day?) C'mon, be honest.
Countless hours have been spent in prayer asking the Lord to enlighten and guide those named. Not only by them, but by us asking the same for ourselves AND them.

You remind me of the dwarfs in C.S. Lewis' book The Last Battle (Chron. of Narnia). They sat huddled in a little group complaining and ranting about their experience when all around them the glory God was shining. They couldn't see it.
What if it is you who is huddled, complaining and ranting about the truth-tellers and resisting the light that is shining around YOU?


You also, I believe are overlooking the magnitude of God. Is His arm too short? Doesn't He know everything?
Indeed, he does and over the course of history - BIBLICAL history - he has not only compelled, but required that his people ACT according to his word.

When the disciples asked Jesus, "what about him?" Jesus replied, "What is that to you?" What about about P. Stevens, Greater Grace, Baltimore? "What is that to you?"
First, you are not Jesus. Second, this is not gossip or meddling or judging. This is the exposition of gross wrong doing and sin that is a danger to God's people.

Since I DO have faith in God, since I HAVE prayed - and prayed - and prayed - to be led on this, since I DO believe that God is requiring me to act, I will continue my course of ACTION until I am lead by GOD to do otherwise.

What about you? Will you continue to cover the sin and abuse of this organization regardless of what the biblical standard is for its leadership?


Nancy (172.173.109.130)
Friday, September 03, 2004 - 12:44 pm
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Paul always exposed an error or a person who was in error. It is very Biblical that God's people expose error.


C.B (24.91.61.194)
Friday, September 03, 2004 - 01:00 pm
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Well, there are many believers who do not agree with you. We also have prayed and and asked God. And I know in my heart that He has spoken to me about this issue. I do have, I think, a healthy fear of the Lord.

I know that you may not be, in fact you aren't intreatable. You won't question yourself. For anyone.

I am not God, you're right, but neither are you.
On that basis alone I would think twice about this so-called exposing.
C.B


lee (65.96.56.161)
Friday, September 03, 2004 - 01:15 pm
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C.B.
There has been a biblical account given here on FACTnet by a few people as to why exposure of sin is necessary. Why not go back through the threads and read it. If you have already and still disagree, fine. I will not attempt to give you answers that have been given repeatedly.

I for one have questioned myself as carefully as I possibly could. I have shared what I'm doing with a couple pastors from my church and a woman friend of mine that I consider someone that would hold me accountable if I were to get 'off'. Everything I get myself involved in, I check it out with my husband. All past friends from TBS that I've talked to about this have things to say about it and I listened carefully to them. I think I'm in a constant state of examining and checking. At least this is the way I'm handling it.

One thing I learned a few years ago is that there are a few verses in the bible that can and are used to stir up, instill and keep alive any ungodly fear that may be lingering. Some verses can and are used as threats.

It's good you bring up the subject of making sure we are doing right.......I'm just hoping that you aren't using any fear tactics.....I choose to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you are writing for our good. Thanks


Anonymous (205.188.117.20)
Friday, September 03, 2004 - 01:37 pm
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CB - You assume to know me, when in fact, you do not. There are more of us out here than you think. All is well with my soul.


JF (67.95.98.107)
Friday, September 03, 2004 - 04:01 pm
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Eph 5:11
Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them...

Go ahead and disagree with that.

[C.B (24.91.61.194)]

The same can be said to you. You seem to have a knack of twisting scripture yourself. Hey, I saw Joybell the other day. You knew that Karen Brown passed away some years back?. She and Joybell were dear friends of mine. Yours too I think. Karen was my best friend. I'm looking forward to seeing her in heaven.
C.B

[Anonymous (70.17.248.67)]

Joybell was on the mission field with my roommate in 1970's in Bangalore India. Are you in contact with her still?

My roommate would like to reach her, you can let us know thru Bonnie or RJ how to get in touch.
Her name is Nancy B.


Maria T

[C.B. (24.91.61.194)]

I know Nancy B. very well from the old days. As for Joybell, I don't have her address/phone number.
But to be truthful Maria I would probably not give it out if I had it. Joybell is still as sweet and funny as ever. I don't think she'd want to hear what most of factnet posters spew out.
No insult but just tell Nancy she is doing fine.
C.B

[anova (anova)]

What is P. Scott Robinson doing these days? Was he an elder that voted for Roger Stenger? Is he pro Schaller?
I wonder what he's doing while everything is falling apart?

Anvous

[ariel (ariel)]

Scott is carrying Carls briefcase, and driving Carl around....still

[anova (anova)]

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!

Unbelievable.

[jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy)]

Does he still follow him to the bathroom?

[isabella (isabella)]

They all follow him to the bathroom!

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

He was not on the Schaller ticket.

[mickey (mickey)]

Robinson was 'limp-wristed' for situations he could have been instrumental in helping with. To me he's nothing but a soft-spoken 'lap-dog' doing the master's bidding.
Acting 'spiritual' and being spiritual are two different things. When style is more important than content, - then he's your man!

[2trustingnowhurting (2trustingnowhurting)]

pastor robinson maybe has changed his ways since lenox because i have had the opportunity to get to know him fairly well, and all i see is a sweet man that feels as though his hands are tied. Now i know that is not right to turn your back on what is going on, but if he steps up he will be marked as well then were will the wounded get counsel from? He has a sweet heart and wants to do Gods will. you can see the love of God in him. He has been very kind to me and every one i know. I think that he sees what is going on but doesn't want to hurt pastor. so call him a loyalist but unGodly? He was not behind schaller he was behind stenger as far as i am aware. he knew that schaller would not go after the lost. Lets all face pastors true puppet is pastor schaller. even though the ministry is corrupt there are still some but very few amazing bible believing christians in there. The ones that are still there are still in there bubble and don't see anything that happens outside of it. we can all pray that they will see the light instead of slandering them because of there blindness. Dont get me wrong if they have done something specific to you and you choose to talk about it that is fine just dont talk about them with nothing to back it up because then you are no better than the people in the church who believe everything pastor says to be God inspired and biblical. I will too one day tell my story, and try to be as accurate as possible to the best of my knowledge. so i do not discredit people just on my dislike for them.

[edith_crane (edith_crane)]

Yes, 2trustingnowhurting. I believe what you say is true about Pr Robinson's kindness and his part in the "work of the ministry". His hands are tied. He is certainly not limp-wristed. Pastor R. is a bible-believing Brother in Christ, focusing on Jesus and reconcilliation, listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit, loving the Word of God, grace, souls, and those who were "marked" and called tares for leaving. Maybe some of the ones in the Baltimore Area can call him, talk face to face, and ask your questions.

[2trustingnowhurting (2trustingnowhurting)]

edith
thank you for seeing my point of view i love pastor r. he has been a good comforter to me when others had turned there back. I believe it grieves him to know what goes on, but he doesn't know what he is able to do in certain situations. I am glad that there is at least one pastor in the balt. church that i would refer someone still in the minstry to council with if they were hurting or wanted answers. He might not come right out and say it but in so many words he will give you your answers about what has gone on and what will be different. Lets face it we were all taught to not gossip or maliegn and to not listen to an evil report about anyone. so pastor r. was taught no different. He does not want to uncover anyone including pastor. However i do not agree with this teaching anymore, but after i left it took me a while to realize it was not my job to cover up for people. so maybe one day the HS will speak to his heart about that. but until then keep him in your prayers.

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

true, i would say the samething. he was and is still a friend and truly a grace man. He is in a tough spot.

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

I've known Scott & Diane for over 30 years and absolutely have no ill will toward them. I don't understand, however, why his "hands are tied"? If he stands up for the truth, yes, he will be marked...so what? Is one to keep living the lie even after the blinders come off? I am absolutely not judging him. He can stay or go as he chooses...just like the rest of us. It is NEVER easy to have your eyes opened to the truth of TBS... and it's hard to make a career change when you're middle aged and have not been in the normal work force... but he still has the choice to make. I wish he & Diane well a they consider their options.

[minutus (minutus)]

Silence is complicity. I liked Scott Robinson and was blessed to substitute teach for him sometimes, but do we stand for truth or the "vacuum over the beans?" That's the question that will be asked when we stand before Christ, especially for a teacher of the Word. Though it kill us, we are expected to stand for truth.

[lee (lee)]

I wish all well that are now experiencing the difficulty of considering options. I also don't understand how anyones hands can be tied.....unless of course it is voluntary.
We got out and had to be revamped in almost every area of our lives! Reeducated and retrained. It took some time to figure it out. It cost in terms of time and money and energy to do a major overhaul but I wouldn't change one bit of it. We worried about the effect on our kids but they are great and we are proud of them. They know EVERYTHING about their parents choice to go to TBS and then to get out and why. They are still believers!
The thing I value the most is the change in values. When you put things in proper order in your life, instead of what we learned in TBS, things become right, feel right, and spiritually they are right.
My desire for the Robinson's and others, is that they will indeed consider ALL things. Take as much time as is needed and make an informed decision.
The world out here is not as bad as some inside the bubble think. God will have a place, a plan and a provision no matter what your age or experience. Some may be surprised at what awaits them.

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

The tough spot Scott is in is all about standing for Christ or standing for Carl. He needs to get real, get his spiritual priorities right and not be a coward. He's a "nice" man...but he needs to make a decision for Christ and discontinue the alliance with false men who claim to speak for God as they spew their lies from the pulpit.

Nothing against him personally, he just may need to stop listening to his wife and Tom, Carl etc and do the right thing for his own soul and to be an example for others.

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

One needs to cease knowingly grieving the Holy Spirit before one can follow Him, Edith, that was the point I was trying to make. Scott knows what is right, and this I believe with all my heart. He has known for years, at least as far back as the Dovydenas case in the 80's. He has s sentimental/emotional/codependent/toxic relationship that overshadows much of what the Holy Spirit could empower him to do...he needs to "gird his loins" as the bible saysd, get some guts and do what the Hoily Spirit has shown him all these years. i think Scott already knows what the HS is saying...I believe he would have split back in the 80's if his wfe and Carl didn't have such a toxic hold on him.

Follow the Spirit? Of course...if only Scott would cease grieving the HS he could follow.

[cape_cod (cape_cod)]

Personally, I have NOT seen Scott Robinson since 1979, but I loved the guy. I selected him to marry my wife and I back in 1977. Scott had such a sensitive and loving heart. I'm very sorry to see him and Diane still in TBS/GGWO ministry. I can fully understand the difficulty in totally leaving a ministry that he has been so involved with for some 33 years. Hopefully, he'll come to terms with what he most likely knows he should do, which is to leave and begin a new life for himself and Diane. Scott and Diane, you're in my prayers.

[bjerwin (bjerwin)]

Scott and Diane have been dear friends of Mike's and mine since 1973. They both love the Lord with all their heart. He & Diane went into the ministry very very young.

I am believing God in both of them. All will turn out well for them because they do have hearts after God.

It would be good for all of us that are friends with them to keep them in our prayers.

[out_for_good (out_for_good)]

"Scott may be a "great guy", but unfortunately he has been a knowing accomplice of much of the schemes of Carl Stevens and others in ggwo that are catagorized as "evil" by many outside the ministry." Amen. As much as Scott may be a nice guy he knows everything that's taken place. He was there holding CHS's coat (like Saul of Tarsus during the stoning of Stephen)while the reputations of many many people were trashed. Almost worse than doing the trashing was that he did nothing. Scott knows EVERYTHING that's taken place in the ministry and he's stayed. What kind of a person does that make him?

[locals (locals)]

A BIG LOSER!

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Scott is a nice guy to be sure, but as we all who have left know, it is not about being "nice". It is about following God and NOT a man. Any pastor, Scott included who remains after this latest disgusting display of misuse of power and manipulation IS choosing a MAN and not God. This is dreadful but needs to be said.

Has it occurred to you that we happen to care about Scott? That for him to leave and establish a right relationship with God is the RIGHT and Godly thing to want for him? He has been complicit in the sins committed by this cult, he has participated in the cover ups by knowing and doing nothing...etc etc. It is time to serious up...here is the opportunity to repudiate the evil and turn again to God. He has a window of opportnity now...now is the time to choose.

I for one am praying for him...I am praying that he finally does the right thing and flees the garbage spewing from that poison pulpit. I am praying that he hears the Holy Spirit that wishes to empower him with all th3e power Heaven holds to escape the spiritual wasteland that is GGWO.

Why will I pray? Because he was my friend once upon a time...in what seems like a different lifetime. He was caring and kind when others couldn't be bothered. I will pray he escapes.

I hope everyone will.

[isabella (isabella)]

Regarding Scott:

I remember him standing in front of the congregation and talking about wiping the dust off his feet when he went to see a man who left the church/cult because the man had learned what they were up to. We had no idea what he was talking about (circa 1978) but he did and it was clear that he was warning us about going against God’s man.

It was he who mentioned the 1977 article in the Phoenix, saying that reading it would bring fire down on you because it was an evil report.

I understand, he was young, but he played the part of a man to all the people in the church/cult who looked up to him and believed what he said. These people were mostly older but gave him the honor they thought (were told) he deserved.

He was, and probably still is, so good at it that the people on here still believe he’s not culpable. But he is. We are all culpable for the things we do. If you are a caretaker of the people, you are responsible to care about the people. That’s easy enough, isn’t it? Am I missing something here? Just because he didn’t harm you…always the nice smile and innocent countenance…always the charade of concern…it doesn’t mean he didn’t do a great deal of damage to some folks who wandered into his church/cult.

As Minutus said, “Silence IS complicity”.

He deliberately did what he did. It’s been over thirty years! When does one decide that they need to stand for the truth? Are you, BJ, saying that he’s not responsible for his actions? If that were true, then no one is responsible for what they do.

OK, fine, good for him. He’s still taking care of Stevens….he’s brainwashed too…boo-who, he was young then and he wants the best now…B…S…!

We see David McAdams, even now, apologizing in a most sincere way. David never had to come on here and say anything about TBS/GGWO. How about the Leonards? How about Dave Drago, Jim Kennedy, and the others …telling the truth about what they did, even though they were young…even though they were mesmerized by their pastor/teacher….

He didn’t know what he was doing? I beg to differ. He knew exactly what he was doing.

He is still doing it now.

Isabella

[boss_martian (boss_martian)]

It's late, and I'm still at work, so maybe I'm a little bit cranky, but I'm a little "frustrated" by posts/responses that say "X is a true man of God", don't criticize, etc.

I'm definitely NOT saying that everyone acused of something on Factnet is automatically guilty, but good grief, people are still falling all over themselves to call Carl Stevens a "man of God".

If you take a look at some of the other threads on Factnet (loading software gives me too much free time, I think), say for the Branch Davidians, you will see plenty of examples of what I'm talking about. There is a young woman on the Davidians thread who considers her time with the Branch Davidians to be the best time of her life! She hasn't come right out and said it, but she insinuates that she had sex with David Koresh when she was the ripe old age of 12. She does say that it was considered an honor to be chosen to sleep with him!

In spite of all the evidence coming out of her own mouth, she insists that Koresh was a "man of God" and was at worst, misunderstood. Now I don't agree with the way the Waco situation was handled by the government, but David Koresh, misunderstood man of God?

I think it's going to take a long time for some people to regain their critical thinking skills. From what I can see, the GGWO way is this: just loudly proclaim you're a man of God, follow Carl's teachings, and, BAM!, you're ALWAYS a man of God.

For some reason, being a man of God doesn't seem to include the ability to clearly see, identify, and proclaim that GGWO doctrines are terrible and that many people have been abused by this cult.

Has this "man of God" Robinson made any attempt to contact Nancy Curra and ask for her forgiveness in a spirit of humbleness? Doubt it. How about any of the others who were run off and forgotten once their questions got too embarasssing or their GGWO usefulness waned.

Same crap, different day.

[yogi (yogi)]

Think Scott Robinson is facing his OWN judgement...Diane his wife does not attend GGWO anymore, nor his two daughters. Also, Austin has moved away to Tom Powell's church which is disaffiliating from GGWO soon, if it hasn't already. A house divided will not stand! No he is reaping what he has sown in other's lives through his silence. Hopefully, the state of his home life will be a wake up call and he will come clean, departing from the clutches of the narsisstic whims of a narcotic junkie.

yogi

[isabella (isabella)]

You got that right Boss,

Same crap, different day,
Same church/cult, different city
Same careless regard for people...
nothing different about that.

Good night,
Isabella

[boss_martian (boss_martian)]

When Karl Marx said "religion is the opiate of the masses", maybe he was talking about GGWO.

[ski (ski)]

Am I right that GGWO always put a stress on the difference between "finished work ministry" and religion? But that's another story.

Basically all people that worship idols can be devided to several groups, some of them could be:
1. deceived enthusiasts
2. bandwagoners
3. pretenders

Pretenders are the subject of my concern. They are those who support idolatry. They have different benefits due to it. Some are close to the idol and directly fed, some are far away, but having certificate from the "big idol" to become "local idol". I have no idea about what was the real cause of SC meeting, I am just imaginary boy, so take this easy.
I am asking the question: why did they went to SC?
To address the problems and to try to solve them? Then why didn't they came in front of the churches they are pastoring and repent for all the junk they were feeding peoples for years?! I can see only one story like that (here on factnet). Where are others? I mean, without repentance it looks like plain plot. A conspiracy with the only one goal - to take power. They can remove Schaller, but will it take the problem out.
I would say, forget about CHS. Since he is coming to an end, those who fight over the throne have no better card to play, but him. Both parties: TS and the opponets. The final prize seems to be not truth in this game.

Just my concerns.

[louise_connolly (louise_connolly)]

Many of us from the North Shore of Boston saw Scott fleece the flocks and send the money to Lenox, MA. Once you realize Carl's cult is a sham if you stay you become one of the con artists. What does it matter how sweet you act to people, or how adept you are at love bombing if it is insincere?

I realize the majority of people in GGWO are sincere Christians who have been deceived but there are many in leadership who have been trained by Carl Stevens to con people using Jesus and His Precious Word. They are experts at it. They make a nice living out of it. What will they do if they leave, become salesmen or motivational speakers? That is their skill set after many years in the cult.

How about the need for financial restitution to people who were wiped out of their assets beyond ever being able to financially recover as something GGWO needs to address and make right?

[c_la_verite (c_la_verite)]

excellent point ski... there are those whose names are on the SC letter but that means nothing... maybe they're just smart enough to get on the bandwagon. until they repent publically to the people they have wronged, in my opinion they are pretenders still taking care of #1 while calling themselves shepherds.

[nonotone (nonotone)]

How about the need for financial restitution to people who were wiped out of their assets beyond ever being able to financially recover as something GGWO needs to address and make right?!

Louise,

This is an excellent point and one that I raised here on FN 6 months or so back. I believe that I may have even brought this with Tom Schaller in our aforementioned private meeting (at the Finland 2005 New Years conference - can't remember definitely if I did or not). Anyway, the bottom line is that Carl and Company have used their brand of "Evangelical Sophistry" to grift their way through 3 or 4 states in the past 40 years. Only God knows how many people were fleeced.

The ONLY moral thing Tom Schaller and crew and do is search out those TBS/GGWO have historically wronged (by misrepresenting themsevles as legitimate spiritual authority), especially the poor/elderly AND MAKE RESTITUTION.

.... even if this means LIQUIDATING the assests of GGWO!

For the present and forseeable future, no higher good could be pursued than this!!!

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

You will not see Schaller do this. It seems that he is willing to cut his loses and rebuild a new machine.

During the summer you will be seeing many leaders leaving. Some starting new local churches and others moving to "exGG" affiliates. I think many are waiting for the school year to end to make their move, this also gives them time to line up employement options.

[nonotone (nonotone)]

Eric,

That's because Tom Schaller is BLIND to the Biblical mandate for it. It's just not how he lives. Tom is a "free spirit", fleeting about around the globe in the name of preaching the "Finished Work" Gospel. Tom's understanding of Christ's Great Commission is: "Go into all the world and make {some} disciples IN the nations" because according to Carl the "Rapture" may occur the day after tomorrow. This is the thinking that keeps them from understanding the whole counsel of God's sovereign purpose.


Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, ?All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.


The point of what Christ says is "to make disciples OF all nations ... teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded you (which includes ALL the sacred writings of the Old Testament in a proper hermeneutical balance, WITHOUT mystical interpretation, AND DEFINITELY WITHOUT ignoring the significance of the New Testament believer priesthood and the co-equal position that New Testament places ALL believers in (including Pastors/Elders).

Carl, Schaller, and others have glossed over the true practical sense of the Gospel as THE means to "make disciples OF the nations", that is to bring them UNDER the sovereign Lordship of Christ, little by little, in ALL spectrums of life.

This is something that Biblically conservative Reformed Christians (of which I now consider myself) understand very well, because it is at the core of our history.

Believe me, Carl and Company are NOT really interested in this kind of Christianity (even though they may pay occasional lip service to it), because it would mean putting an end to controlling people with nonsense like "you must obey the pulpit, your Pastor/Teacher IS the final authority for articulating the doctrines of the Bible, your vocation is BIBLE DOCTRINE, your job is just what you do to support you and your family (if you have one), etc. Jesus Christ is recording in Heaven EVERYTHING I (the Pastor) say and how YOU (the "body member") hear." - ad nauseam

I'm going to say one more time. To Carl Stevens, Tom Schaller, Scott Robinson, the leadership of GGWO. YOU have a RESPONSIBILITY to co-labor with Christ to seek and save "that which is lost". This includes every single person that you have maligned, marked, but even more the precious "little ones" (some who are now in their elder years) I'm speaking of those who contributed "houses and lands" and $$$$ to help establish the working capital that you have today; who have "fallen by the way" as you fled from the consequences of CHS' and company's historical immorality and grifting ".. SHAME on you if don't have the integrity to relieve the distress of these people. You know many of them are still alive, right here in America. Get right with God!

In Christ the Sovereign King,


Brian Bowman
John 3:21

[yogi (yogi)]

As Roberta so eloquently mentioned on another post, "Welcome to the Millstone Society" (Stevens, Shaller, Robinson et al.)

yogi

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

"Therefore, this is what the Lord, the God of Israel (GGWO), says about the shepherds (pastors) who shepherd My people: You have scattered My flock, banished (marked) them, and have not attended to (gone after) them. I will attend to you because of your evil acts"-the Lord's declaration. (Jer 23:2)

[isabella (isabella)]

Eric wrote:

"You will not see Schaller do this. (make restitution) It seems that he is willing to cut his loses and rebuild a new machine."

AND,

"During the summer you will be seeing many leaders leaving. Some starting new local churches and others moving to "exGG" affiliates. I think many are waiting for the school year to end to make their move, this also gives them time to line up employement options."

I'm thinking that the church/cult leaders will start a new church/cult.

..and the beat goes on...

Isabella

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

isabella,
As I said:
<font color="0000ff">"Some starting new local churches and others moving to "exGG" affiliates."</font>

Those that start new churches will be looking to affiliate with the "exGG" affiliates. This new affiliation has made it clear, they will not be going back to the old ways. These pastors are really trying to bring their churches into mainstream Evangelical Christianity. They will not be adopting the cultic tendencies of GGWO. As we heard from Rome, they are coming out and making public repentance and denouncing their errors. I spoke with one affiliate that said he wanted to have a public announcement of the doctrinal changes.

[ski (ski)]

I am going to check it in my place .....

[sjbs]

what is happening at ggwo? is it still a mind control and cult like group in 2009

[dave_munson]

Yes it is.